One thing that Bothers me in the upcoming TMNT show

[Karpo_007]

Now that I have been thinking of it, the no Death thing could really be bad for the TMNT. Take the new He-man Show for example. The Masters have a war With Skeletor and his troops, but the war can never really end because there is no death in the cartoon. So if the plot can't move on, only reason to make new episodes is to sell toys.

I hope this wouldn't happen to the New TMNT show. It might become like the old show where they never really get shredder(Well Donatello came close in "Night of the dark turtle" but the other TMNT were stupid enough to stop him). I hope this doesn't happen, but if there can't be any death, How can they really make the plot change?

[HorseTechie]

That is a point.. but I'm sure they'll come up with something so it isn;t obviously PC. It does look like they wil have human foot soldiers now, (unless the Elite are human and the rest are robot).

My guess is that Shredder will be one baaaaad villian, otherwise making it harder for the TMNT to KO him. I guess he could be like Megatron, or like the villian in Gargoyles. More into playing tricky mind games than just simply blasting everyone to kindom come. Cause, if the main characters were to be KOed.. then who would we have left to fight with? They'll prolly fight, but not until they bleed or or die.

I think they might have the lesser chars end up being incarcerated by the police. (Like in the begining of the first movie) Or have the classic voilence in a dark room, where you can't see what the heck they are doing, and then at the end the baddies are lying in a tied up heap. The use of robots or spiritual entities instead of flesh characters is another. The mousers might be good game there...

[Karpo_007]

There's no point to judge the show before it's aired, but I have my worries. Let's hope for the best. It seems that foot isn't robots anymore, Of course they can just tie them up, but what about Shredder? Prison is one option of course. It wouldn't be too hard to Bring him back that way either. But the no death aspect is toatlly going to rule out the "Return to New York" story line.

[Kali]

If you think death is the only thing that moves a plot... no, not gonna say it. But there are plenty of other things that can happen that do not have to include death. And we're talking on-screen death here, they may do off-screen or implied death. There are ways around it.

And I have a feeling it won't be just Shredder and the Foot they're dealing with. I think instead of just having Shredder and the Foot "get away" everytime, there will be times when both the Turtles and Shredder claim "small victories". Maybe The Foot get away, but they manage to keep whatever they were stealing or whatever. Or the Turtles might shut down one of Shredder's smaller criminal operations. Battles won on both sides, but the war rages on. If that war ended, so would the show, potentially.

I'd love to see City At War when Shred's still alive. A Foot civil war, Karai trying to take Shredder's power and company. The Turtles stuck in the middle.

[Karpo_007]

A show where there are enemies who fight, what other way is there to move the plot? Besides Thats how it was done in the original comics.

[HorseTechie]

Yeah.. a couple other details I noticed menas this new cartoon isn't going to follow the comics 100%. It was said in the previews for the Second Time Around shop, that April was running it after her father passed away *ding*ding*. In the comics, her father didn't pass away until City at War.

Already I'm getting the feeling this new cartoon is picking up as a whole new version. For example, the building could blow up, leaving the TMNT to think the Shredder died in it... but he got out in time for this cartoon version.

[Kali]

There's character growth and develpment along side fighting. I'm gonna go back to comparing this show concept to the atmosphere of Disney's Gargoyles. Dramatic, action filled, and still played for the Y7 crowd. There was a push-and-pull between and "good guys" and "bad guys" that didn't go stale because all the characters changed as a result of the encounters. The characters learned and grew. Plots were practically continuous. It's not ALL about the fighting, it's about the characters too.

[Karpo_007]

Yeah. I just have to accept that it's not going to be like the comics I love. My fear is that if nothing changes, it could become boring like the original show. I dont even want to think that, It wont happen if the writers are good enough.

[HorseTechie]

Take a breather, Karpo... no use getting all worried about the show UNTIL you see it.

From what I've seen of the Jacki Chan Adventures (the most comparable thing done by 4Kids so far), I think the TMNT show is gonna do well. After all.. lookit all the new fans borne from the first TMNT movie, which also was a mix of Mirage and some of the original cartoon concepts.

[heretic888]

i dont have a problem with what i have heard so far...... EXCEPT for the possible 'party dude' aspect in Mike's character. Is he fun-loving? yes. Is he easy-going? yes. Is he relaxed and friendly? yes.

But.... is he an extreme extrovert 'lets partaaaay' kinda guy? absolutely not. i would also like to see him more like an 'artist' than a 'party man'.

Thank god they acknowledge his 'highest physical prowess' and 'natural athleticism' among the guys.... so he wont take a backseat to fights like he occasionally did in the old cartoon.

hmmm.... something makes me think mike, raph, and casey will do almost all the fighting (probably because they will be the most popular characters).

[HorseTechie]

And nothing from Leo?

*sees Don busy being technical to crack tooo many skulls*

[heretic888]

Leo will be too busy barking orders and reading the Sun Tzu to come up with new strategies!! :lol:

seriously, though i think Mike, Raph, and CJ will see the most action because they will probably be the most popular characters.

[HorseTechie]

Them... the MOST popular? Hrmph...

*grabs Don* He's still one of my favs, no matter how little action he has. *drolls over the schematics of the next vehicle in production*

[Mondo_Gecko]

Its still hard for me that this is going to be diffrent then the show i grew up on and still love. But i'm still going to watch it and give it a chance it as after all Turtles, diffrent Turtles then i know but Turtles none then less.

Maybe i'll have to read the original comic just so i know what i'm getting into.

Maybe i'll be lucky and Bebop & Rocksteady & Krang will appear in one episode.

[Eye of Sarnath]

I wouldn't count on it.

But, there will be Utroms, and Krang was based off them.

[Karpo_007]

But it was was said later that Krang is not an utrom. STill looks like one.

The official profile says that Raphael is the strongest figter, and Michelangel the most Athletic one. From thos facts one could think that they will do most of the fightingagainst thugs , Leo is probably fighting more the leader types like Hun.

[heretic888]

its up to the writers really, and their ability to stay 'in character'.

[Karpo_007]

Yeah. Other profiles seem pretty much like the original ones, but Im having little problem with Mike. Like in the pictures always tongue out of his mouth.

[Mondo_Gecko]

I don't like they way the Turtleslooked, kinda demonic.

[Karpo_007]

Turtles looked just fine, Much more like the originals than the first cartoon ones.

[heretic888]

they look like the turtles, demonic or not.

I agree, Karpo. I'm afraid this new Mike is gonna be WAY too similar to his old cartoon version.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Thats not a problem if Mikey is like the cartoon version.

[Karpo_007]

Yes it will.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Why would it be a problem?

[heretic888]

yeah it is a problem because it demeans his character. all the others were more or less kept true to their characters EXCEPT for Michelangelo. This was all at the expense of having someone be a scapegoat for comic relief. They always have someone like that in a show like this. Its very annoying.

[Karpo_007]

Yes. THey need a little humour in the mix, so they made Mike that way. We'll just have to see what will become of it.

[heretic888]

they could make the show funny without 'kiddifying' Mike's character.

i mean, the 'real' Michelangelo is funny because he is laid back and has a great sense of humor and occasionally pulls pranks to lighten ppl up.

but the 'party dude' mike makes idiotic remarks, pulls stupid stunts that get him in trouble, is scatter-brained, and is often-times a klutz.

i would like much more of the former and less of the latter.

[Mondo_Gecko]

So your saying in the original comic Mikey's totally diffrent?

[heretic888]

he's not a 'party dude' if that's what you mean. sure, he has a great sense of humor and is very relaxed, friendly, and laid back.... but he is not an attention-getter, partier, or extrovert.

[Karpo_007]

Totally. He is light hearted, has good sense of humour, and is artistic.

The cartoon mike was just a party dude with stupid comments and jokes. But I don't believe they are making him that bad in the new cartoon.

[heretic888]

yeah, they said they were toning it down... but im still a lil' pissed. Mike is my favorite turtle.

[Karpo_007]

We just have to wait and see how it turns out.

[heretic888]

hmph.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Huh thats weird i didn't know that. I can see now why you guys are so mad with them changing the turtles if the ones u like were way different and in your words better.

[heretic888]

The Michelangelo of the comic was not a cliche, nor was an idiotic comic relief.

[Karpo_007]

They are the original TMNT. I too started with the cartoon, then i read few scans of the comics and then bought them all. The people who have only watched the cartoon have no idea what the real TMNT are like.

[heretic888]

i repeat: damn skippy.

[Karpo_007]

What?

[heretic888]

damn skippy.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Well maybe i should read the Real TMNT then

[heretic888]

oh yeah, definitely. you shall be pleasantly suprised.

[Karpo_007]

Yes you should. The cartoon is not near it's Level.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Ok question. I hear that Rat King and Leatherhead were in the original comic and Krang was based on some thing called an Utom, but was there any other mutants other then the Turtles, Splinter and Leatherhead?

[Shellfox]

Don't know why yor all aginst Mike yes he was overly party but he did have moments of greatness, so he ws a scape goat, hes also what got people hooked. Did the others have catch phrases, not really, Cowabunga is identified with Mike, and there for the TMNT, it was someting that got people in. We need someone to bring in younger fans, and the others aren't initally, yes they'll grow on them but it was Mike they made me a TMNT fan. Yes as time progresses in the show he needs to to, but in the brgining having him more patry is a good idea. Later give him some restraint, there could be a good story in that change so it all works.

hope for the best expect the worst

[Tokka-B]

Yea, I agree, but I still like the idea of Mike being the party guy. You need some humor in the show because between hothead, leader, and braniac, if you have another serious one it won't be as fun to watch. Not all 15 year olds are that damn serious, sheesh. I also think that all the Turtles will almost have equal fighting abilities. Raph and Mike will probably be stronger, but you need Don to help out with the machines and he has that extremely powerful bow to make up for his lack in strength. Leo will be a training freak so I doubt he won't fight at all.

[Reznorite420]

Now that I have been thinking of it, the no Death thing could really be bad for the TMNT. Take the new He-man Show for example. The Masters have a war With Skeletor and his troops, but the war can never really end because there is no death in the cartoon. So if the plot can't move on, only reason to make new episodes is to sell toys.Those sort of comments from you are really getting on my nerves. Think about it; would parents want to see kids seeing death and destruction of that sort on a TV show? I didn't think so. Remember, it's the kids that are the main audience. Why do you think so many video games are getting such negative comments? It's because of the violence in them and the number of young children getting their hands on them. As for the TV show, it's not at all about the toys or the money, it's about it being kid-friendly so nobody gets in trouble and has their license revoked by the FCC.

Logic. Pure logic.

[Tokka-B]

I can definately see what Karpo is saying though, these days are just so strict and any violence can result in a rediculous lawsuit cuz of greedy bastards, lol. Anyway, I do believe death will play a major role in whether or not this series will go anywhere, but too much can cause problems. I agree that small battle victories are good, and I think one of Shredder's right-hand men will have to die to keep it interesting, maybe Hun? Well, I am just getting really excited and hope this new series is a hit! :o

[Reznorite420]

There can be violence without it going overboard. Take my experience, for experience. My parents had no problem with me watching some violence, which is why I was able to get hooked on TMNT back in the day (I think I may have said that my dad likes TMNT too). If it involved MINDLESS violence, however, then that was a problem to them.

[Tokka-B]

In those days you can get away with much more violence, but then they took away Mike's nunchucks?!?!? That got me pissed... :evil:

[Jephael]

That was not one of their better ideas, nor was how they stopped acknowledging that the TMNT live in NYC.

[Tokka-B]

Yea, I know, the Big Apple is the best city in the world for the Turtles to live, thank god the writers realize that now :)

[Shellfox]

you have to remebr you put the wrong thing in a show and parents will come slamming down on who evers in charge. Take Darkwing Duck for instance, there was a pentagram in the opening when lightning sturck and shadows arose forming it for a second in one scene and the next thing you know perents are attacking the show saying its demonic. Ok not the best example, but parents have a way of blowing the least little thing out of porportion, so be glad they still have weapons and can fight.
Good or bad seeing them on the screen is more that most of us ever expected so just be happy about it

[Tokka-B]

I guess so, but it still doesn't stop me from getting pissed off at the fact of how parents reactions have complete power of what a writer can write or draw, when the youth are the ones who watch the freaking show!!! :evil: :x

Whew, happy to get that out... I am going to cool off for a while now :|

[Newton Gimmick]

Any Exo-Squad fans here? That wa the best cartoon in the past 15 years. Kali, you like Gargoyles, you should check out Exo-Squad, while two totally different types of shows, you'd appreciate the gorwing of storylines and characters is alot like that of the Goyles.

As for Death, its not always needed. While Exo-Squad had death, they didn't overdo it.

Besides, Shredder is kinda cheap in the original Mirage comics. They kill hom off WAAAY too early. And once he dies the second time he never comes back.

You need a constant badguy. Hell, Batman has yet to kill Joker.

Death is not everything, plot development is.

[Sparvid]

You need a constant badguy. Hell, Batman has yet to kill Joker.Well, that's because Batman doesn't kill. Ever.
Ninjas, however, has a tendency to do that...

[Kali]

Not necessarily. A true ninja will avoid killing if they can. It is an absolute last resort.

Though some people are just better off dead.

[Nturtle]

Well I'm bugged by aa lot of things in the new show... first of all Shredder's new look he looks like a robot with all that bluish metal and red eyes, April just doesn't seem... april I don't know, casey Jones simply does not look nearly as rough and tumble as before in any TMNT universe, the foot symbol resembles a maple leaf I was showing the pictures to some people and they asked if they were canadian!!, the turtles vehicles aren't awful but the names are, the new lair resembles a cathedral, Splinter... looks symply terrible in my opinion he looks less old sage rat like and more droopy weasel like, also with the foot symbol being on the foot soilders and shredder as well as flyin oer the foot skyscraper don't you think its a little too obvious? :roll:

Yeah this may sound whiney etc... and you may say at least we are getting a new show but still whats the use if it isn't good?

[Kali]

I don't know. But I do know that the show has potential.

I could take any show, book, comic, anything, and sketch out the main characters, give a short bio, and basic overview. But a show is more than it's cast of characters. More than the sum of it's parts. It's how everything is put together, that's what makes or breaks a show.

[Skeletoncrew]

Canadian ninjas, eh? :D

[DarthRaphael]

MMM, I sense high expectations and an obesssion with death, I do. Much to learn, young Jedi.

There is too much emphasis with sex and violence these days.
I say the new TMNT should be all about the comedy.
Kids need to laugh.
I liked TMNT as a kid, not because they are ninjas and whooped some Foot now and then, but because of the characterizations and the zany humor.
I know most of you will hate me for that, but that is the way I feel.
Kids don't need to see death in A CARTOON.
If you want more violence, keep reading the comics.
Just remeber the target audience. Children.

[Newton Gimmick]

Luke: I'm looking for someone.

Yoda: Someone you have found, yes? Hmm.



Hehe. Man my spelling was terrible earlier, guess I was in a hurry.

As for Batman never killing, Batman has killed, but Bats much like the TNMT, doesn't go out of his way to kill.

My point was, TNMT needs a constant bad guy.

The new Foot sign is kinda lame, I always liked the big FOOT as the sign.

[Aztec General]

For the record I've figured out what the new Foot sign is. It's Shredder's three pronged helmet design. Ain't I smart? :evilgrin:

[Shellfox]

1. I like Gargoyals, last good thing Disney has done in quite a while for TV
2. Exo Squade was killer, loved the mutant neosapians
3. When has Batman killed, him never killing is the point of the chacter
4. Don't know where this is coming from but the foot symbol looks like the Green Ranger power coin, again no idea where this came from
5. We need to see the guys imploy some interigation techniques
6. This is a kids show and we need some degree of comidy

[Tokka-B]

Guys, quit evaluating a show that is far from coming to tv, sheesh. :roll: I mean, there is too much emphasis on looks nowadays mostly. (Though I will regret that I said this sooner or later :goofygri: ) And DarthRaphael, I really don't think the new toon should be based on comedy or there would be no show. I think it should include comedy AS WELL AS violence because too many shows nowadays already have so many restrictions and it would pretty much die like the rest. Kids nowadays need a VARIETY of different cartoon shows, not just all comedy or happy endings, if kids are brought up to be taught that all endings are happy then their future is in for some big surprises..... I don't think the show should include sex, as most cartoons don't see that as a "need" :lol:

[Kali]

Remember violence and action are NOT the same! I hope they have an equal balance of comedy and action. Comedy and humor is just as much a part of TMNT as action and drama is.

[Tokka-B]

I agree, the show definately needs action and comedy. But you'd think there may be slightly more violence since everyone seems to look beefed up and there are new charcters in the mix, but we will see.

Oh heck, if this new series is anything like the old one, I will be impressed!

[Jephael]

Hey, comedy has always been an essencial part in the TMNT universes. Infact, they were very humourous in Mirage Vol. 1 #5 when they ended up in the alien planet where they met Fugitoid.

[Tokka-B]

Hey, does anyone know if the background music for the battle scenes and whatnot is the same? :-?

[Jephael]

Nope, that stuff is probably getting a revamp as well.

[DarthRaphael]

Yes, I agree with everyone who said there should be a balance of action and comedy.

I was just sensing an over-abundance of the need for violence and killing.
There can be plenty of action, but rarely (or never) any death in a TV show.
I don't know about the rest of you, but it really irks me when a main character is killed off from a show. That maybe why the foot soldiers worked out well as robots. The TMNT had something to smash and destroy, but they weren't KILLING.

[Karpo_007]

Now that I have been thinking of it, the no Death thing could really be bad for the TMNT. Take the new He-man Show for example. The Masters have a war With Skeletor and his troops, but the war can never really end because there is no death in the cartoon. So if the plot can't move on, only reason to make new episodes is to sell toys.Those sort of comments from you are really getting on my nerves. Think about it; would parents want to see kids seeing death and destruction of that sort on a TV show? I didn't think so. Remember, it's the kids that are the main audience.

I can see you didn't get my point. The plot not moving is not only problem with the TMNT, it is with almost any cartoon. Like HE-man. The war can never end. I know that if there were death, parents would start jumping of buildings. Im just asking can the Show avoid becoming boring and showing same plot all the time like the old toon? I mean if there's no Death, how can the battle between Shredder and TMNT end? I said earlier that prison is an option. I hope they can avoid the mistakes that most cartoons have made. Same good guys battling same enemies, the battle will stop only when the show gets cancelled. I know that if the writers are good enough, they can make it work.

[Shellfox]

bad exmaple but what about Jackie chan adventures? Same villians every season (to a degree) but the seasons all move forward till the end of the season. Its not that hard to have a series progress, plot wise, with killing people. Just have a good series plot, like they seem to have, so I don't see why we need to worry

[Ozirron]

The plot not moving is not only problem with the TMNT, it is with almost any cartoon. Like HE-man. The war can never end. I know that if there were death, parents would start jumping of buildings. Im just asking can the Show avoid becoming boring and showing same plot all the time like the old toon? I mean if there's no Death, how can the battle between Shredder and TMNT end? I said earlier that prison is an option.


-----
If you are speaking about 'a death' and about possible end of war between Shredder and turtles I have to say that here is a problems with long shows. Nobody knew when the show ends up.
And if writers let die/be killed one of main characters (not depend on if the character is good guy or bad guy) there will be alwyas a group of people who liked that character and the show will be interesting for them no more. (or they won't like the show as much as they did)

my opinion:
I don't like stories, which are strictly Black & White, where good guys are perfect heroes and bad guys are 'absolutely evil' monsters.
So when the show/story is not about 'war between Turtles and Shredder' but about their lives, including the aspect they are enemies and this war is not only sence or their lives, so. in that way, any death is needed and story plot could be still very interesting.I would like to see, turtles are heroes, but living creatures so they could make mistakes. And opposite side, here is Shredder, who is human, living creature, too, so he couldn't be only evil monster, living for 'a Hate' only or so. So in the show,any 'human/good features' of Shredder's nature/acting could be shown there.

[Karpo_007]

Original TMNT were not the ultimate good guys. They first battled Shredder to avenge Splinter's Master Yoshi. But this time it seem that Shredder will be a long time enemy. I just hope it doesn't turn out like the old show.

[heretic888]

one of the big themes in the tmnt series is about the circle of violence and pointlessness of vengeance.

[HorseTechie]

Yeah... I saw that too in the mirage comics. Once it starts it doesn't seem to end...

*takes a big breath* But I agree with those who are pro-action/comedy and anti-death/violence in cartoons. Sure.. some things go too far, like censoring nunchuks and martial arts action all togther. But I doubt they are gonna go THAT far in this toon. People are more worried about guns and terrorists now.

All I can say.. if you wanna see violence, death, and destruction, go watch the 9/11 footage of the WTC falling. Or the sneaky snipers. Then... you'll see why some do not wish to have violence with lots of obvious death in the cartoons and other places they go to escape. I'm not saying too much reality, war n politics are a bad thing... but not having that balance of work and play makes one rather gray. :(

But yes.. I do like stories were you wonder who is the right one and who is the wrong. I think the first two seasons of the Transformers, and the comics handled that very well. We only percieved the Decepticons as the bad ones cause they didn't care too much about humans like the Autobot factions did. Or with the Gargoyles. To a human, Xanatos might be a good guy.. cause those Gargoyle monsters look big and scary and stuff. I like it when they play that game of tug of war... trying to compromise, trying to make one side join the other, trying to outfox one another's plan. Strategy... like a chess game. But grabbing up a gun or a sword and killing them all in 3 point 2 seconds as if it were some video game just totally ruins the sport. :dead:

[heretic888]

Well, I think there SHOULD be some death in the new series. But not gratuitous death.

A true shinobi would only kill as an absolute last resort. More than likely, he would down the attacker and distract him and then try and escape. Same with the turtles. They have no desire to just randomly beat up on criminals. If they are being attacked, they would fight only as much as they needed until they could get away. If they had a mission or objective to attain, they would go after it in the most covert and unnoticeable means as possible. Well, except for the sometimes-moronic Raphael, but that's another story.....

In other words, for ninja as skilled and trained as the TMNT, death should be an extreme rarity. Ninja prefer to avoid violence altogether. Thus, the emphasis on stealth and invisibility.

Neither war nor politics are inherently bad. Actually, NO ACTION is bad in itself. Only motivations and intentions are good or bad. ANY action will have both good and bad consequences to different people. Thus, intention is the basis of any real morality. Are your intentions truly selfless and compassionate, or greedy and self-absorbed??? Morality is only found in the motivation.

Gargoyles was a very good show.

I too most enjoy the shows when there is not a hard line between right and wrong, good and evil. They could definitely throw in some interesting discussion in the new TMNT show, such as where they right to begin warring with the Foot?? How do we make the circle of violence and vengeance end?? and stuff like that.....

oh well, we'll see....

[Karpo_007]

It doesn't need to be something like spawn, But if there is no death it can't be that straight adaption of Mirage comics.

[heretic888]

yes, i agree. there needs to be at least a LITTLE death. it could be off-screen, implied, or whatever but it sorta needs to be there. not any of this mindless gratuitous violence or whatnot, only death when it is appropriate and contributes to the plot.

[Karpo_007]

Yeah. But as it is a Saturday morning cartoon, it can't be graphical.

[heretic888]

well, it doesnt have to be.

[Karpo_007]

Yeah it doesn't.

[Shellfox]

Give up on the death thing guys it won't happen, most shows go out of their ways to hide the fact that chacters die (when imported from japan), so I dought they'll dilibretly kill people now. The last time I can remeber seeing a chacter really die, with out anykind of hiding the fact, on a "kids" show was Beast Machines at we know how most responded to that, and since they both were/will be on fox expect Fox to learn from their mistackes

[Karpo_007]

I have seen on death in JLA. It was in savage time. The army guys sgot a sniper in a tree. Since it was World War II I would have expected some more of that but all in all they handeled the episode very well.

[Shellfox]

I have seen on death in JLA. It was in savage time. The army guys sgot a sniper in a tree. Since it was World War II I would have expected some more of that but all in all they handeled the episode very well.
I rember that, I don't think john really hit him. something to do with the animation but I don't remeber John actually hitting him. Besides that show is generally showed at night and is geared towards older audiances and is not network, you gotta remeber networks have stickt guild lines, it seems more so that when the first show was out

[Karpo_007]

I have the episode on my comp, he shoots, guy drops. Everyone can have their own conclusions what happens. Probably the only death in "Children's" cartoon I have seen.

The no death aspect bothered me somewhat in Batman TAS. All the criminals were able to avoid death. Even the guys who fell from a blimb. They fell in the trees. They didn't have toshow what happened to them. It would have been better that way.

[Sparvid]

The no death aspect bothered me somewhat in Batman TAS. All the criminals were able to avoid death. Even the guys who fell from a blimb. They fell in the trees. They didn't have toshow what happened to them. It would have been better that way.The Joker killed that maffia guy in Mask of the Phantasm.
Batgirl fell from a building and crashed into a car in Over the Edge (yes, it was revealed to be a dream, but the car crash and her death was shown.
The policeman (argh, can't remember his name...) was killed in the Superman episode Apokolips Now.
Harley Quinn was pushed through a window in Mad Love. Survived, but with plenty of injuries.

And weren't they going to go with the Mirage origin (with the deaths of Nagi, Yoshi and Shen)?

[Eye of Sarnath]

I think that eventual death is unavoidable. Sure, it will be rare, but I'm positive it's gonna be there.

But I could be proven wrong. I dunno... there are some pretty silly censorship rules on cartoons today.

Omg, overly violent cartoons are gonna warp the minds of our nation's youth and turn them all into bloodthirsty animals!

[Jephael]

I'm sure the Nagi/Shen/Yoshi love story will come into play, but they might change it. Shen and Toshi's demise could be a horrific explosion.

[Eye of Sarnath]

A horrific explosion? I hope not. I think it shold be the same as in the comic book... even if does warp kid's minds.

[Jephael]

As interesting a story it was in the comics, I simply believe it's just too intense for a child to see (especially the part about Nagi "attacking" Shen)

[Karpo_007]

Or Saki killing Yoshi and sheng.

[Jephael]

Now that I think of it, I could see them adapting it so that Nagi gets banished for trying to kill Yoshi over Shen, and it drives Saki to want vengeance.

[Tokka-B]

The war between Shredder and TMNT was probably meant never to end, as long as shredder still has plans.. If that is so, then there should still be some death at least to implicate that it is an actual war that is going on, and it can't be just "bad guys" dying either. If I had a child, I would want him/her to know that violence isn't right. And the only way to do that is to have guys on both sides die...On the other hand, these "deaths" can't be too tragic or important, it might just be too much for a child to take in on a Saturday morning...

[heretic888]

it will probably just stick to the comic and not be as graphic.

[Karpo_007]

Yeah. In the First issue, There werent really graphic deaths. Yoshi Killing Nagi showed only his Fist, Shredders death was just and explosion.

[Anarchistguy]

There's no point to judge the show before it's aired, but I have my worries. Let's hope for the best. It seems that foot isn't robots anymore, Of course they can just tie them up, but what about Shredder? Prison is one option of course. It wouldn't be too hard to Bring him back that way either. But the no death aspect is toatlly going to rule out the "Return to New York" story line.

What makes you think they'll actually go that far in the storyline??

[Karpo_007]

Why not? They farm house is in the series.

[Anarchistguy]

I guess you're right. Anything is possible

[heretic888]

True 'dat.

[Anarchistguy]

It' d be cool to see Karai, but I'm probably getting my hopes up.

[heretic888]

oh, im sure karai will be brought into the show at some point.... but probably WAY down the line. dont expect to see her in the first season.

[Anarchistguy]

I know. But how long do they intend to keep The Shredder? Do you
think he'll only be around for the first season?

[Tokka-B]

Shredder will be forever :o

[BigThew]

i hope so

[Mondo_Gecko]

You can't have the turtle show without Shredder even if t in't as good as the first TMNT cartoon.

[heretic888]

at some point, im sure the shredder will be axed and something like City at War will take place. after all, it was THE single greatest tmnt story ever written.

[Mondo_Gecko]

So in the Mirage Stories Shredder is gone? Who do they fight then?

[heretic888]

yes, the Shredder was killed by the tmnt (twice actually).

the tmnt dont really fight anyone in terms of an ongoing war (as soon as the elite are gone, that is). they simply live their lives.

[Mondo_Gecko]

So hats the story they just live their live. Seems kinda boring

[heretic888]

not really. its not an ongoing cliche like the cartoon is. they live their lives and grow up and learn their place in the world. a lot more interesting than fighting Shredder for 20 years.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Is there any cool bad guys or villians that they fight? Any neat characters?

[heretic888]

yes.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Who?

[Karpo_007]

Mirage TMNT boring? It has real plots, the plot isn't just 2 clowns trying to take over the world. And Im not sure they can do City at war. Atleast not the same way, because they probably can't kill Shredder.

[Sparvid]

Is there any cool bad guys or villians that they fight? Any neat characters?Going by memory: Baxter Stockman and his Mousers, The Foot without a leader, The Triceratons, Savanti Romero, The Foot with the resurrected Shredder as their leader, various ordinary humans, Doctor Dome, a giant leech, the Shredder Elite...

Oh, and I think Fugitoid is a neat character! :)

[FreshRazz]

Just can't wait for the new show, too bad for some of the good characters... eh? I don't care what ppl thin I still like Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang!

[heretic888]

nah, i think they will do City at War at some point. its TMNT at its very best.

[Anarchistguy]

You'll probably think It makes no sense that a Mirage fan doesn't know about it, but what is the "City At War" storyline about??? :-?

[heretic888]

In issue 1, the Turtles are told of their origin and they go and kill Shredder.

In the Leo special, the Shredder reappears somehow and almost kills Leonardo in an ambush. He then proceeds to battle the rest of the tmnt, and in the fight april's apartment is burned down. In defeat, the tmnt retreat to the farmhouse in Northampton.

In the Return to New York storyarch, the turtles return to new york and it ends with leo killing shredder in a sword duel.

The City At war storyarch deals with the Foot's collapse due to a lack of a leader. They splinter off into various factions and war with each other (thus the title). The Shredder Elite are particularly dangerous becuase they believe only Shredder should lead the Foot and try to kill off everyone else. This story is about how the Turtles resolve this war that they created.

[Mondo_Gecko]

What? A Giant Leech? A mutant Leech? cuz that be cool.

[catter]

if the show was on at night time or on adult swim it would rock because they could show deaths

[Mondo_Gecko]

Whats Adult Swim?

[rayfillet101]

adult swim is a late night block on cartoon network that shows more adult shows. The shows have swears, nudity(i think, or it refers to it), blood and gore and all that fun stuff :). It is on at like 10 on weekends i think, well i dunno but check your local listings.

[Shellfox]

adult swim is a late night block on cartoon network that shows more adult shows. The shows have swears, nudity(i think, or it refers to it), blood and gore and all that fun stuff :). It is on at like 10 on weekends i think, well i dunno but check your local listings.
Nudity what show was that? PS I think CN is dumping the Sat line up and doing a Week night block, though sun will be untouched

[Anarchistguy]

In issue 1, the Turtles are told of their origin and they go and kill Shredder.

In the Leo special, the Shredder reappears somehow and almost kills Leonardo in an ambush. He then proceeds to battle the rest of the tmnt, and in the fight april's apartment is burned down. In defeat, the tmnt retreat to the farmhouse in Northampton.

In the Return to New York storyarch, the turtles return to new york and it ends with leo killing shredder in a sword duel.



Thanks, but I already know that part.

[rayfillet101]

nudity: i mean like butts and boobs and stuff just small but it bugs the stuffing outa parents with small kids.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Going by memory: Baxter Stockman and his Mousers, The Foot without a leader, The Triceratons, Savanti Romero, The Foot with the resurrected Shredder as their leader, various ordinary humans, Doctor Dome, a giant leech, the Shredder Elite...

K i wanna know everything about this Giant Leech. That is so cool. Is it a Mutant? Cuz I always thought a mutant leech would have been the coolest.

[Shellfox]

nudity: i mean like butts and boobs and stuff just small but it bugs the stuffing outa parents with small kids.
What shows? I've been watching Adult swim since it came on but don't recall any nudity

[catter]

In issue 1, the Turtles are told of their origin and they go and kill Shredder.

In the Leo special, the Shredder reappears somehow and almost kills Leonardo in an ambush. He then proceeds to battle the rest of the tmnt, and in the fight april's apartment is burned down. In defeat, the tmnt retreat to the farmhouse in Northampton.

In the Return to New York storyarch, the turtles return to new york and it ends with leo killing shredder in a sword duel.

The City At war storyarch deals with the Foot's collapse due to a lack of a leader. They splinter off into various factions and war with each other (thus the title). The Shredder Elite are particularly dangerous becuase they believe only Shredder should lead the Foot and try to kill off everyone else. This story is about how the Turtles resolve this war that they created.

i have got to get the issue where leo kills shredder
do u know anywhere that i could get it

[rayfillet101]

Shellfox, i mean like the oblongs and stuff like that

[Sparvid]

K i wanna know everything about this Giant Leech. That is so cool. Is it a Mutant? Cuz I always thought a mutant leech would have been the coolest.He appeared in Rick Veitch's "The River" (#24-26). Basically he was a ordinary leech who sucked the Mutagen out of Raph, leaving him as a normal turtle, and mutating himself.

He first looked kinda like this:
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/24/2403.jpg

And a little later, like this:
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/26/2601.jpg

[Mondo_Gecko]

Thats aweome!!! I want to get that story

[Mondo_Gecko]

Ok i just read the 3 part story on the official site. What a cool story and a cool character.

[Machias Banshee]

Heh, if it werent for the strange head, he'd almost be good looking... :D

*flees from bappage*

[Mondo_Gecko]

Yeah....

[Tokka-B]

*baps him really hard and leaves him there crying* Don't say stupid things... :lol: :wink:

[Jephael]

Actually, the three issues that made up that particular story happen to be placed in the Collected TMNT Vol.6 which I bought a copy of last Christmas Eve. It's an excellent story!

[Mondo_Gecko]

Yeah i really like it .

[Karpo_007]

I heard there is nothin extra in thos collected books, so there is no reason for me to buy them. But I will buy the First publishing Graphic Novels, I heard they have lots of extra stuff.

[Sparvid]

Well, there are those beautiful Farley covers on the Collected Books:

1 (http://www.alteredearth.com/farart29.htm)
4 (http://www.alteredearth.com/farart31.htm)
5 (http://www.alteredearth.com/farart28.htm)
6 (http://www.alteredearth.com/farart30.htm)
7 (http://www.alteredearth.com/farart32.htm)

[Mondo_Gecko]

What kinds of extra stuff?

[Karpo_007]

Well just the covers arent reason enough... And The graphic novel have the first 12 TMNT comics + one shots in color and few New stories.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Thts cool maybe i''ll get it

[FreshRazz]

What if it became like DBZ they'd kill the strongest in the universe then anther one comes allong stronger then anther one and some times they came back from the dead... :teek: how stupid is that no offence to dbz fans (i like the show too) but killing ppl who challenge the main hero for no reason then coming back or having a brother a father is pointless (who are stronger than them who) (yes im talking about freezer) heroes need enemys that'll never go away... allthough a good variety of enemys is kool

[heretic888]

what the hell are you talking about???

[Shellfox]

I think hes saying having one super strong villian that menices the guys for the season then killing him/her off and having their famly show up try and take revenge the next season as the sole point of the new shows wouls suck

[heretic888]

uhhh.... right.

but you do know... that the 'cycle of vengeance/violence' is one of the big themes in the tmnt..... that violence and vengeance simply beget violence and vengeance.

[Tokka-B]

I agree with heretic....for once! :o :o :o

[heretic888]

imagine that.

[Shellfox]

But if they handle it like DBZ it'll get old after the second season (hey I watch DBZ but the plot got old)

[Kali]

There's PLOT in DBZ?!? :o

:lol: J/K I watch the show (because there's nothing else on) and I know there's a plot. It's just so SLOW. It take them a hour to do five MINUTES of storytelling. And it gets very redundant. There's this super-powered bad guy, and the good guys beat him. Then this even more powerful villain comes along, almost kills the heroes, the heroes get stronger and defeat the bad guys, and on and on and on.

The cycle of venegence is a very important theme in TMNT, I agree, but hopefully they'll go off on tangents every now and again for a little variety.

[Karpo_007]

Well children are the target audience so im sure it won't be as dark as Mirage.

[MzTheInsomniac]

of course it wont be as dark as mirgae, but it will be as close as it can get

[Karpo_007]

YEah but as it is shown in saturday mornings, some compromises will be made.

[MzTheInsomniac]

well at least they will use their weapons, and hopefully they wont take away mikes chucks, btw can someone post what that grappling hook that mike used looked like?

[Greed]

Its funny the new Mikey fig comes with a grappling hook

[Anarchistguy]

It does ?

[Greed]

kind of its a grappling that reels back the cord

[Jephael]

That's the same kind he had in the old toon, of coarse the old one had that tiny shell with retractable hooks on it.

[MzTheInsomniac]

can someone post what the grappling hook looked like in the old toon

[Mike]

There has to be some mention of death: " and is responsible for the death of Splinter's®master" That's from the Playmates site.

[Karpo_007]

Well, I think it is allowed to speak of death, But not showing it graphically. They will have to tell the origin story at some point, I just wonder how are they going to do it.

[Jephael]

They'll probably do it the same way they showed the backflas of Spider-Man's Uncle Ben in the '90s cartoon he had.

[Karpo_007]

I can't remember that very well, but those death scenes werent really graphical in the comic either.