One thing that Bothers me in the upcoming TMNT show

**Karpo_007** · 11-25-2002, 11:32 AM

Now that I have been thinking of it, the no Death thing could really be bad for the TMNT. Take the new He-man Show for example. The Masters have a war With Skeletor and his troops, but the war can never really end because there is no death in the cartoon. So if the plot can't move on, only reason to make new episodes is to sell toys.

I hope this wouldn't happen to the New TMNT show. It might become like the old show where they never really get shredder(Well Donatello came close in "Night of the dark turtle" but the other TMNT were stupid enough to stop him). I hope this doesn't happen, but if there can't be any death, How can they really make the plot change?

**HorseTechie** · 11-25-2002, 11:45 AM

That is a point.. but I'm sure they'll come up with something so it isn;t obviously PC. It does look like they wil have human foot soldiers now, (unless the Elite are human and the rest are robot).

My guess is that Shredder will be one baaaaad villian, otherwise making it harder for the TMNT to KO him. I guess he could be like Megatron, or like the villian in Gargoyles. More into playing tricky mind games than just simply blasting everyone to kindom come. Cause, if the main characters were to be KOed.. then who would we have left to fight with? They'll prolly fight, but not until they bleed or or die.

I think they might have the lesser chars end up being incarcerated by the police. (Like in the begining of the first movie) Or have the classic voilence in a dark room, where you can't see what the heck they are doing, and then at the end the baddies are lying in a tied up heap. The use of robots or spiritual entities instead of flesh characters is another. The mousers might be good game there...

**Karpo_007** · 11-25-2002, 11:52 AM

There's no point to judge the show before it's aired, but I have my worries. Let's hope for the best. It seems that foot isn't robots anymore, Of course they can just tie them up, but what about Shredder? Prison is one option of course. It wouldn't be too hard to Bring him back that way either. But the no death aspect is toatlly going to rule out the "Return to New York" story line.

**Kali** · 11-25-2002, 11:59 AM

If you think death is the only thing that moves a plot... no, not gonna say it. But there are plenty of other things that can happen that do not have to include death. And we're talking on-screen death here, they may do off-screen or implied death. There are ways around it.

And I have a feeling it won't be just Shredder and the Foot they're dealing with. I think instead of just having Shredder and the Foot "get away" everytime, there will be times when both the Turtles and Shredder claim "small victories". Maybe The Foot get away, but they manage to keep whatever they were stealing or whatever. Or the Turtles might shut down one of Shredder's smaller criminal operations. Battles won on both sides, but the war rages on. If that war ended, so would the show, potentially.

I'd love to see City At War when Shred's still alive. A Foot civil war, Karai trying to take Shredder's power and company. The Turtles stuck in the middle.

**Karpo_007** · 11-25-2002, 12:01 PM

A show where there are enemies who fight, what other way is there to move the plot? Besides Thats how it was done in the original comics.

**HorseTechie** · 11-25-2002, 12:06 PM

Yeah.. a couple other details I noticed menas this new cartoon isn't going to follow the comics 100%. It was said in the previews for the Second Time Around shop, that April was running it after her father passed away *ding*ding*. In the comics, her father didn't pass away until City at War.

Already I'm getting the feeling this new cartoon is picking up as a whole new version. For example, the building could blow up, leaving the TMNT to think the Shredder died in it... but he got out in time for this cartoon version.

**Kali** · 11-25-2002, 12:08 PM

There's character growth and develpment along side fighting. I'm gonna go back to comparing this show concept to the atmosphere of Disney's Gargoyles. Dramatic, action filled, and still played for the Y7 crowd. There was a push-and-pull between and "good guys" and "bad guys" that didn't go stale because all the characters changed as a result of the encounters. The characters learned and grew. Plots were practically continuous. It's not ALL about the fighting, it's about the characters too.

**Karpo_007** · 11-25-2002, 12:08 PM

Yeah. I just have to accept that it's not going to be like the comics I love. My fear is that if nothing changes, it could become boring like the original show. I dont even want to think that, It wont happen if the writers are good enough.

**HorseTechie** · 11-25-2002, 12:13 PM

Take a breather, Karpo... no use getting all worried about the show UNTIL you see it.

From what I've seen of the Jacki Chan Adventures (the most comparable thing done by 4Kids so far), I think the TMNT show is gonna do well. After all.. lookit all the new fans borne from the first TMNT movie, which also was a mix of Mirage and some of the original cartoon concepts.

*heretic888* · 11-25-2002, 12:22 PM

i dont have a problem with what i have heard so far...... EXCEPT for the possible 'party dude' aspect in Mike's character. Is he fun-loving? yes. Is he easy-going? yes. Is he relaxed and friendly? yes.

But.... is he an extreme extrovert 'lets partaaaay' kinda guy? absolutely not. i would also like to see him more like an 'artist' than a 'party man'.

Thank god they acknowledge his 'highest physical prowess' and 'natural athleticism' among the guys.... so he wont take a backseat to fights like he occasionally did in the old cartoon.

hmmm.... something makes me think mike, raph, and casey will do almost all the fighting (probably because they will be the most popular characters).

**HorseTechie** · 11-25-2002, 12:26 PM

And nothing from Leo?

*sees Don busy being technical to crack tooo many skulls*

*heretic888* · 11-25-2002, 12:27 PM

Leo will be too busy barking orders and reading the Sun Tzu to come up with new strategies!!

seriously, though i think Mike, Raph, and CJ will see the most action because they will probably be the most popular characters.

**HorseTechie** · 11-25-2002, 12:32 PM

Them... the MOST popular? Hrmph...

*grabs Don* He's still one of my favs, no matter how little action he has. *drolls over the schematics of the next vehicle in production*

Mondo_Gecko · 11-25-2002, 12:36 PM

Its still hard for me that this is going to be diffrent then the show i grew up on and still love. But i'm still going to watch it and give it a chance it as after all Turtles, diffrent Turtles then i know but Turtles none then less.

Maybe i'll have to read the original comic just so i know what i'm getting into.

Maybe i'll be lucky and Bebop & Rocksteady & Krang will appear in one episode.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 11-25-2002, 12:47 PM

I wouldn't count on it.

But, there will be Utroms, and Krang was based off them.

**Karpo_007** · 11-25-2002, 01:12 PM

But it was was said later that Krang is not an utrom. STill looks like one.

The official profile says that Raphael is the strongest figter, and Michelangel the most Athletic one. From thos facts one could think that they will do most of the fightingagainst thugs , Leo is probably fighting more the leader types like Hun.

*heretic888* · 11-25-2002, 01:14 PM

its up to the writers really, and their ability to stay 'in character'.

**Karpo_007** · 11-25-2002, 01:15 PM

Yeah. Other profiles seem pretty much like the original ones, but Im having little problem with Mike. Like in the pictures always tongue out of his mouth.

Mondo_Gecko · 11-25-2002, 01:21 PM

I don't like they way the Turtleslooked, kinda demonic.

**Karpo_007** · 11-25-2002, 01:23 PM

Turtles looked just fine, Much more like the originals than the first cartoon ones.

11-25-2002, 11:32 AM	#1
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	One thing that Bothers me in the upcoming TMNT show Now that I have been thinking of it, the no Death thing could really be bad for the TMNT. Take the new He-man Show for example. The Masters have a war With Skeletor and his troops, but the war can never really end because there is no death in the cartoon. So if the plot can't move on, only reason to make new episodes is to sell toys. I hope this wouldn't happen to the New TMNT show. It might become like the old show where they never really get shredder(Well Donatello came close in "Night of the dark turtle" but the other TMNT were stupid enough to stop him). I hope this doesn't happen, but if there can't be any death, How can they really make the plot change?

11-25-2002, 12:13 PM	#9
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Aww... Take a breather, Karpo... no use getting all worried about the show UNTIL you see it. From what I've seen of the Jacki Chan Adventures (the most comparable thing done by 4Kids so far), I think the TMNT show is gonna do well. After all.. lookit all the new fans borne from the first TMNT movie, which also was a mix of Mirage and some of the original cartoon concepts.

11-25-2002, 12:22 PM	#10
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmmm i dont have a problem with what i have heard so far...... EXCEPT for the possible 'party dude' aspect in Mike's character. Is he fun-loving? yes. Is he easy-going? yes. Is he relaxed and friendly? yes. But.... is he an extreme extrovert 'lets partaaaay' kinda guy? absolutely not. i would also like to see him more like an 'artist' than a 'party man'. Thank god they acknowledge his 'highest physical prowess' and 'natural athleticism' among the guys.... so he wont take a backseat to fights like he occasionally did in the old cartoon. hmmm.... something makes me think mike, raph, and casey will do almost all the fighting (probably because they will be the most popular characters). __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-25-2002, 12:27 PM	#12
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	heh Leo will be too busy barking orders and reading the Sun Tzu to come up with new strategies!! seriously, though i think Mike, Raph, and CJ will see the most action because they will probably be the most popular characters. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-25-2002, 12:47 PM	#15
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	I wouldn't count on it. But, there will be Utroms, and Krang was based off them. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

11-25-2002, 11:45 AM	#2
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	That is a point.. but I'm sure they'll come up with something so it isn;t obviously PC. It does look like they wil have human foot soldiers now, (unless the Elite are human and the rest are robot). My guess is that Shredder will be one baaaaad villian, otherwise making it harder for the TMNT to KO him. I guess he could be like Megatron, or like the villian in Gargoyles. More into playing tricky mind games than just simply blasting everyone to kindom come. Cause, if the main characters were to be KOed.. then who would we have left to fight with? They'll prolly fight, but not until they bleed or or die. I think they might have the lesser chars end up being incarcerated by the police. (Like in the begining of the first movie) Or have the classic voilence in a dark room, where you can't see what the heck they are doing, and then at the end the baddies are lying in a tied up heap. The use of robots or spiritual entities instead of flesh characters is another. The mousers might be good game there...

11-25-2002, 11:52 AM	#3
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	There's no point to judge the show before it's aired, but I have my worries. Let's hope for the best. It seems that foot isn't robots anymore, Of course they can just tie them up, but what about Shredder? Prison is one option of course. It wouldn't be too hard to Bring him back that way either. But the no death aspect is toatlly going to rule out the "Return to New York" story line.

11-25-2002, 11:59 AM	#4
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	If you think death is the only thing that moves a plot... no, not gonna say it. But there are plenty of other things that can happen that do not have to include death. And we're talking on-screen death here, they may do off-screen or implied death. There are ways around it. And I have a feeling it won't be just Shredder and the Foot they're dealing with. I think instead of just having Shredder and the Foot "get away" everytime, there will be times when both the Turtles and Shredder claim "small victories". Maybe The Foot get away, but they manage to keep whatever they were stealing or whatever. Or the Turtles might shut down one of Shredder's smaller criminal operations. Battles won on both sides, but the war rages on. If that war ended, so would the show, potentially. I'd love to see City At War when Shred's still alive. A Foot civil war, Karai trying to take Shredder's power and company. The Turtles stuck in the middle.

11-25-2002, 12:01 PM	#5
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	A show where there are enemies who fight, what other way is there to move the plot? Besides Thats how it was done in the original comics.

11-25-2002, 12:06 PM	#6
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Yeah.. a couple other details I noticed menas this new cartoon isn't going to follow the comics 100%. It was said in the previews for the Second Time Around shop, that April was running it after her father passed away dingding*. In the comics, her father didn't pass away until City at War. Already I'm getting the feeling this new cartoon is picking up as a whole new version. For example, the building could blow up, leaving the TMNT to think the Shredder died in it... but he got out in time for this cartoon version.

11-25-2002, 12:08 PM	#7
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	There's character growth and develpment along side fighting. I'm gonna go back to comparing this show concept to the atmosphere of Disney's Gargoyles. Dramatic, action filled, and still played for the Y7 crowd. There was a push-and-pull between and "good guys" and "bad guys" that didn't go stale because all the characters changed as a result of the encounters. The characters learned and grew. Plots were practically continuous. It's not ALL about the fighting, it's about the characters too.

11-25-2002, 12:26 PM	#11
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	And nothing from Leo? sees Don busy being technical to crack tooo many skulls

11-25-2002, 12:32 PM	#13
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Them... the MOST popular? Hrmph... grabs Don He's still one of my favs, no matter how little action he has. drolls over the schematics of the next vehicle in production

11-25-2002, 12:36 PM	#14
Mondo_Gecko Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 670	Its still hard for me that this is going to be diffrent then the show i grew up on and still love. But i'm still going to watch it and give it a chance it as after all Turtles, diffrent Turtles then i know but Turtles none then less. Maybe i'll have to read the original comic just so i know what i'm getting into. Maybe i'll be lucky and Bebop & Rocksteady & Krang will appear in one episode.

11-25-2002, 01:12 PM	#16
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	But it was was said later that Krang is not an utrom. STill looks like one. The official profile says that Raphael is the strongest figter, and Michelangel the most Athletic one. From thos facts one could think that they will do most of the fightingagainst thugs , Leo is probably fighting more the leader types like Hun.

11-25-2002, 01:14 PM	#17
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmm its up to the writers really, and their ability to stay 'in character'. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-25-2002, 01:15 PM	#18
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Yeah. Other profiles seem pretty much like the original ones, but Im having little problem with Mike. Like in the pictures always tongue out of his mouth.

11-25-2002, 01:21 PM	#19
Mondo_Gecko Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 670	I don't like they way the Turtleslooked, kinda demonic.

11-25-2002, 01:23 PM	#20
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Turtles looked just fine, Much more like the originals than the first cartoon ones.