When fans think the original TMNT Show "Jumped the Shark."

[TheShowstoppa]

Being bored tonight, I went looking online to see what fun stuff I could find. I found a site on bored.com called Jump the Shark. For those of you who don't know, Jumping the Shark is defined as a TV show that has reached its peak and then steadily went downhill. I managed to find the ariticle for TMNT. Most of these are "fan votes" as to their opinion. I thought it would be an interesting read for you guys!

Link: http://www.jumptheshark.com/t/teenagemutantninjaturtles.htm

Does anyone but me think that the last comment (I mean VERY last) is completely ignorant? He talks about Krang and Bebop and Rocksteady being in the comics and he owned 10 of them, and that the new shows aren't based on the comics... the DOUCHE was reading the ARCHIE comics and not the Mirage ORIGINALS. This guy's a moron and deserves to be kicked in the nuts.

[GK Punk]

Sadly, you will run in to that more often than not:|

[Masked Ninja]

It irritates me when people complain simply because it's not the old cartoon. Guys:
1) It's not the same cartoon, nor is it trying to be.
2) You can actually read the TMNT #1 online. Do it. Then tell me this show is ruining the concept.

I admit I was put off at first by the designs... and the first two episodes I saw were the Turtle Titan and Kirby episodes (I was a little weirded out) but further watching had me hooked. End of story. And the animation doesn't hurt your eyes.

What's wrong with liking both? *has both classic and new TMNT DVDs on shelf*

[GK Punk]

I like both as well. It kind of irritates me when people bash one in favor of the other.

[VaughnMichael]

frankly I'm just sick of the damn term "jump the shark" that in it's self is annoying...when I see it I go oh lord who's complaining now...:roll:

[Sewer Bull]

And the animation doesn't hurt your eyes.


Actually, I really do prefer NS to OS in one aspect - there are far less goofs (especially in animation or coloring) in the new show than there used to be in the old one. NS is done with a greater care whereas OS sometimes looks rather slovenly-produced - there happen to be 4-5 major goofs per episode. But overall, I think I like them both equally.

And I don't appreciate jumptheshark.com much - this site is rather messy, comments are chaotic (I'd prefer a review written by one person) and it claims The Simpsons never jumped the shark (and I find this point of view rather disputable if you ask me)

[Deathknight]

Jeez, what an ignorant idiot. I agree about the animation errors in the old toon... they really did just happen too frequently. I still like the old show better though, I've actually stopped watching the new series though. Beginning of season 4 really just didn't hold my interest at all.

[Leonardo_]

Ho, he repeats himself several times, so I didn't read all of it. But although how can someone beef about something that extremely?!


By the way...what does "jump the shark" mean??

[ZariusTwo]

Ho, he repeats himself several times, so I didn't read all of it. But although how can someone beef about something that extremely?!


By the way...what does "jump the shark" mean??

It means when a series reaches the point where it can no longer sustain its' popularity, or when it makes a drastic change in format or character that causes the shows' popularity to plummet, its; name is depraved from the Happy Days episode in which Fonz, wearing his jacket, on water skies, jumps a shark. Although it still did well in the ratings long after, the shows' popularity, original sense of purpose, and sense of realism was gone and it became more and more outlandish.

Same thing nearly happened to M.A.S.H when they killed off Blake, but it changed its' format to a dark comedy war drama closer to the roots of the movie, and therfore saved its' shelf life.

And yeah, if we're getting into "new cartoon vs old cartoon" debate again...

The original in terms of originality and comedy totally rapes the new one, inconsistent animation or not, this is coming from someone who loves the current incarnation as much as the previous one.

As for those comments, I can understand the mainstream consensus not knowing as much as the purists do, so dont' call them "idiots" when they read an Archie publication and assume that was the end-all, be-all, as to me, the original is always going to be that anyway, as it will to a lot of people.

[Leonardo_]

Ah, now I got it. Thanks, ZariusTwo :)

[Sage Ninja]

It means when a series reaches the point where it can no longer sustain its' popularity, or when it makes a drastic change in format or character that causes the shows' popularity to plummet, its; name is depraved from the Happy Days episode in which Fonz, wearing his jacket, on water skies, jumps a shark. Although it still did well in the ratings long after, the shows' popularity, original sense of purpose, and sense of realism was gone and it became more and more outlandish.

Same thing nearly happened to M.A.S.H when they killed off Blake, but it changed its' format to a dark comedy war drama closer to the roots of the movie, and therfore saved its' shelf life.

And yeah, if we're getting into "new cartoon vs old cartoon" debate again...

The original in terms of originality and comedy totally rapes the new one, inconsistent animation or not, this is coming from someone who loves the current incarnation as much as the previous one.

As for those comments, I can understand the mainstream consensus not knowing as much as the purists do, so dont' call them "idiots" when they read an Archie publication and assume that was the end-all, be-all, as to me, the original is always going to be that anyway, as it will to a lot of people.

OMG ZariusTwo, you rock 8)

Any way I thought this thread was supposed to discuss when the "orginal" TMNT cartoon jumped, not a NT vs. OT thread:evil: I don't get why it went in that direction at all after the first poster:-?

Any way for me I think the classic TMNT toon jumped when they broke into the Red Sky arc of the story. Not that all its concepts where bad or anything I just didn't like the abrumptness of the change. And I didn't like how all the "fun" and "humour" that gave the show its flavor was removed. Quite frankly i thought the story was boring at that point; except for season eight, I actually liked that season.

[Jester]

I think if the OT did "jump the shark" it was when they removed Shredder and introdused Dregg...that and the stupid Super-Mutations and Carter additions. The original toon was a bit more serious in the first 2 seasons or so then it became more and more goofy, and it's hard to recapture the more serious tone...especially with Mikey still using his "grapler." I love the old toon, it's what made me a TMNT fan, but I think it lost itself when it went red Sky.

[ZariusTwo]

Had they kept Shredder and Krang, and not tried to compete with Power Rangers by ripping off their badass "Lord Zedd" storylines. I think Red Sky would have stood more of a chance. Some of my favourate episodes came from season eight.

[GK Punk]

I think if the OT did "jump the shark" it was when they removed Shredder and introdused Dregg...

Quoted.

For.

Truth.

[TMNT4787]

I think it happend when the original voice actors started leaving. I know it was only like 2 or 3, but it was to main charecters. No one can do Shredder like Avrey and once that and Raph was gone ( Raph had 3 different voices I think ) its hard to keep watching because alot of people don't like change. Especailly in tv.

[bloodbath666]

I love both shows as well. I agree that, that person's comments were pretty ignorant at parts. Even tho, the new show is technically alot better than the old show, I still have a soft spot in my heart for the the old show. The mistakes, the cheesyness, the change of characters, man I actually liked alot of that stuff. Mainly because I was a kid when all this happened, and man I remember getting up saturday mornings to watch the old tmnt show, and how happy it made me. I also remember how bad I felt when the old show got cancelled, so I'm glad that they brought back tmnt to tv, and I'm really glad that they are doing IMO a great job with the show. :D

[Jester]

I think alot of the "mistakes" in the original toon were intentional...to keep watchers on their toes...I mean how hard is it to draw the belts on the right way. There were episodes where the boys belts were on backwards, I think that was a "see if they spot it" intentional flub.

[KROW]

Does anyone but me think that the last comment (I mean VERY last) is completely ignorant? He talks about Krang and Bebop and Rocksteady being in the comics and he owned 10 of them, and that the new shows aren't based on the comics... the DOUCHE was reading the ARCHIE comics and not the Mirage ORIGINALS. This guy's a moron and deserves to be kicked in the nuts.
Well... Maybe not the nuts, but the ass would suffice, since that's where this person's brain seems to be located.

But hey, I once ran into some goon who claimed that he has a #2 issue of TMNT wherein they all died. So, there ya go.

As for the topic itself, I really don't have anything to say that hasn't been said already. Though I don't favor one toon over the other, I agree with Zarius' logic, as well as Jester's Dregg comment.

[Sewer Bull]

I think alot of the "mistakes" in the original toon were intentional...to keep watchers on their toes...I mean how hard is it to draw the belts on the right way. There were episodes where the boys belts were on backwards, I think that was a "see if they spot it" intentional flub.

Sounds rather bizarre but also plausible. I mean... How the hell errors like "five turtles in one scene (two of them being Raphael)" or other color-switching or voice-mistaking goofs that are so easy to spot for the watchers could go past the production phase?

Must have been intentional.

[VaughnMichael]

I agree with you.
as do I...even if I like everything tmnt mirage is where it all came from so to me that's the turtles even if I've loved every tmnt version we've seen.
I guess I'm sort of a rarity in the tmnt fandom I even liked next mutation and image comics tmnt for a few reasons....as well as the old toon and archie as well even if I wish the old toon was more like the archie series...
hell I even wish the new show was more like the archie series.
-Putrescent

[Jo Dawn]

Ok, so, as for jumping the shark... Well, when I watched it originally? It didn't. Because we were young and innocent and there WAS no 'jumping the shark' when it came to the TMNT. Why do we want to look back as adults (or almost adults) and try to see where our green guys' 80's counterpoints went wrong?

Looking at it from an adult perspective will surely do two things:

Disenchant you from it, or cause a fight.

[ZariusTwo]

And I don't debate people who got nothing.

Which would be you purist, keep it up, I can go all day knowing whose showing their true colours, you had no intention of debating at all. Stick what you define you know where, the condescending "Oh I'll say I'm not debating when I make snide comments with someone who was genually joking with me" tone you're displaying does not work around me. You dont' "get" the original cartoon, hence why you're so stuck up about what you define as "true" TMNT. Glad for once the mainstream outnumbers you a billion to one, I'm a comics fan myself, but the original TMNT is more "fun". Lighten up and maybe you'll see that one day

And of course I know the eyelidless looks were there since the beggining, I never liked them, I still dont', they look badly animated when interpreted on screen

Old series bashing is'nt allowed, and if you think it is, ANYONE here thinks that way, what the hell are you still doing here?

I totally agree with you, also.

Ok, so, as for jumping the shark... Well, when I watched it originally? It didn't. Because we were young and innocent and there WAS no 'jumping the shark' when it came to the TMNT

Eeer, speak for yourself, children are'nt stupid, they see the writing on the wall when it happens, look no further than Power Rangers, Pokemon and a dozen or so others.

[Jo Dawn]

Oh I know. I worked in a school for YEARS, my dear. Children are quite familiar to me. No, they're not stupid... BUT, you have to admit that children NOW are much less naive than we were.
(And no, I wasn't nor am I now stupid... But going into all that is called bashing. And that's not allowed here. :) )


Hey, I was just making a point, you know. Trying to diffuse a fight, but whatever.

[ZariusTwo]

Oh I know. I worked in a school for YEARS, my dear. Children are quite familiar to me. No, they're not stupid... BUT, you have to admit that children NOW are much less naive than we were.

I dont' remotoley agree with that, Children go nuts over Spongebob, Winx, 4Kids dubs, and Imaginary Freinds, and there some of the worst shows conceived by mankind.:)

I think the only naive people are the ones who can't enjoy the original series other than "pure cheese" rather than a seperate animal with its' own way of doing things, depending on whenever they "get it" or want it to have the balance that came with Archies' run. I can watch the original series again and again, I can only watch the new series for four episodes at a time before it bores the hell out of me (and four is a pretty fair deal) I probably should not group every purist as crass narrow minded people, just the people who act like their version should be the be-all, end-all and to hell with the rest.

This went way too far, I agree, but thats' what happens with pursits of that kind, not to say all of them are like that, but the ones who are? Worst fans period, for many different reasons (and before it looks like its' limited to THIS fandom, thats' hardly the case, its' the same with a lot of fandoms, Power Rangers still have their "MMPR forever" purists etc)

[GK Punk]

:( *Cries and leaves the thread*

[ZariusTwo]

If its' any help....its' a little better than Crap: Lyoko

[GK Punk]

Oh man I hate that show :lol:

[ZariusTwo]

Yeah,if that show was'nt some knock off psudo-anime trying to be Reboot, I'd enjoy it.

[GK Punk]

You can't recreate something like Reboot. You just can't. And I wish people wouldn't try.

[Masked Ninja]

Am I wrong for liking both cartoon series? Each, I think, has aspects I don't like. I just focus on what I love instead. Like the serious tone of the new toon, and the better animation and attention to story... and how the old toon was cute and funny and part of my childhood. I couldn't disown either of them, really.

Guh. I hate these sort of debates. They are DIFFERENT shows, not to be compared. Yes, the new toon is closer to the Mirage comic "canon," but the old toon is hecka awesome by itself. Not to mention the old theme kicks the new theme's trash.

[Jester]

I agree with you Mask, I love the new toon for totally diffrent reasons than I like the Old Toon, heck there are even elements of NT:TNM I like...and heck the new series is out to sell toys too. I mean look at the last few episodes. Monster Hunters and Paleo-Patrol were majorly put in the show to pimp the toy line. Yes, Mirage is the source material, but the old toon took that universe and made it accesible to all kids, who could grow up with it and eventually move to the more adult Mirage world.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I agree with you Mask, I love the new toon for totally diffrent reasons than I like the Old Toon, heck there are even elements of NT:TNM I like...and heck the new series is out to sell toys too. I mean look at the last few episodes. Monster Hunters and Paleo-Patrol were majorly put in the show to pimp the toy line. Yes, Mirage is the source material, but the old toon took that universe and made it accesible to all kids, who could grow up with it and eventually move to the more adult Mirage world.

Yes, but thats really only the real TMNT fans. The rest either still haven't heard of the Mirage comics, have but still don't read them cause theyr'e not into comics, or have but refuse to except them because theyr'e too different, or too violent.

[Jester]

And since they don't like the Mirage comics (I've only read Vol 1 Ish 1 and vol 4 1-19) they aren't true TMNT fans? I think a true fan can take any version of the TMNT and see the good in it and not deride one as too campy or cheesy. It made the TMNT media darlings.

[KROW]

Oy. What happened to this?

I'll say this about the labrynthine phrase "true fan": If you like it, you're a fan, and since it can be stated and documented as fact, you are therefore considered a "true fan" of it.

But hey, that's just a theory on my part.

[Jester]

Oy. What happened to this?

I'll say this about the labrynthine phrase "true fan": If you like it, you're a fan, and since it can be stated and documented as fact, you are therefore considered a "true fan" of it.

But hey, that's just a theory on my part.
God bless you Krow...you always make me smile.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

And since they don't like the Mirage comics (I've only read Vol 1 Ish 1 and vol 4 1-19) they aren't true TMNT fans? I think a true fan can take any version of the TMNT and see the good in it and not deride one as too campy or cheesy. It made the TMNT media darlings.

Yes, it made them media darlings, it also branded them with certain stereotypes they may never be able to live down, and thus can never be taken as seriously as other comic characters like Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man.

[Jester]

Yes, it made them media darlings, it also branded them with certain stereotypes they may never be able to live down, and thus can never be taken as seriously as other comic characters like Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man.
Batman came back to his dark roots after a campy cheesy rendition...i think the TMNT can pull it off.

[KROW]

Yes, it made them media darlings, it also branded them with certain stereotypes they may never be able to live down, and thus can never be taken as seriously as other comic characters like Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man.
Dude, they're turtles. You could say the same thing about Savage Dragon and it would mean the same thing. If you were talking about Spawn or X-Men, that'd be different.

Stereotyped? The only thing I can think of when you said that is The Grinch shouting, "It's because I'm green, isn't it?!"

[ZariusTwo]

Batman came back to his dark roots after a campy cheesy rendition...

Yeah, and people love both the dark and humerous Batman series one after the one, which is great, because both are the definitive versions if you know the comics history.:)

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Zarius, I wan't to apologize to you. I finally see where your'e coming from. Both versions of TMNT can be considered the definitive versions because they both have done something to help get the TMNT some recognitition.

While I still think the new toon better represents(and I would still like to debate you on that). I can see theres nothing really wrong with saying the old toon was the definative, because it kinda is in a certant way.

[Sage Ninja]

oy vey, people :(

My personal pet peeve is when people bash one form of the TMNT just to evelate another form of it. I'm tired of hearing people say, that that 1987 cartoon pimped the turtles out and made them into silly shadows of what they where. Or that the old toon cheated its fans by not portraying them in there true presentations of their characters (i.e: Raphael's violent tendacies).

I've said this many times before, the old toon had restrictions on it that the newer doesn't have. Do you really think the old toon could have gotten away with Leonardo decapitating some one, like Leonardo did in the new toon?

[Jester]

Zarius, I wan't to apologize to you. I finally see where your'e coming from. Both versions of TMNT can be considered the definitive versions because they both have done something to help get the TMNT some recognitition.

While I still think the new toon better represents(and I would still like to debate you on that). I can see theres nothing really wrong with saying the old toon was the definative, because it kinda is in a certant way.
Exactly. The Mirage TMNT is the bases for the old toon (Even if that was only to say that there were 4 turtles and a rat master, Shredder was evil and April was their friend) and the old toon made the Miarge comics easy to swallow for little kids, which in turn, when they grew up, would lead them to more "adult" TMNT. I love the old toon cause it did juist that for me, and thought I don't read the Mirage comics regulary (I can't find a shop in the area that carries them.) I have enjoied what I've read, and seen in the new series.

[ZariusTwo]

I was reading original MIRAGE TMNT when I was nine, and still regarding the original series as defintive, even when I knew what came first:|

I'm not some emo who switches alligences to one version because its' the "original", I'd have not been a fan of Batman Beyond or Spider-Man 2099 had that been the case. Llets' stop before the thread is closed. Nobodies' going to convince anybody to stop considering what they think is "definitive", either respect the original series or post nothing else on the subject to those causing the unrest

[Jester]

I think that the Mirage and OT were both definiative. The Mirage comics defined the rturtles ability to be butt kicking ninjas, the original series defined (maybe) their individual characters (was Donnie a nerd in the Mirage comics pre-OT?) and of course the colored bandanas. The both helped define the TMNT and give us what we have. NT:TNM failed because it was to little like it's sourse stuff...yeah it tried (and failed) to be wacky, but it was wacky for wackiness sake and not smaet humor. It was also threw out several important characters and brought in some lame replacements (Give me April over Venus and Shredder over Dragon Lord any day!) The NT draws from both the original Mirage lore and the OT to make itself an equal balance of action and humor.

[Sage Ninja]

wow, I actually agree with you jester! you make some good points. What I liked about the original TMNT cartoon was that the turtles had such distinctive personalities and how, despite being almost identicle and having to work as a team, they where indivduals. And even though the setting was light and silly the turtles presence was in your face unique.

(was Donnie a nerd in the Mirage comics pre-OT?)

I'm not sure, I never considered Donatello to be a nerd in the classic toon, he was well valued and respected for his smarts in the classic toon by the other turtles, and I believe he was portrayed as gifted and brilliant in the mirage comics as well. I think out of all the turtles Donatello maintained the most accurate portrayal of his character from his turn over from comic to cartoon.

[Jester]

Yeah I love Donnie, and used "Nerd" as a term of endearment...sort of...:P. So the guys had distinct personalities in Mirage before the OT?