Crisis on Infinite Shells

[sdp]

Crisis on infinite Shells

I like many grew up with the turtles, was a huge fan but eventually moved on, it was not until about 3 years ago when I realized I was still a big fan. anyways I find all their different universes are interesting and being a DC multiverse fan I decided to group them into different 'earths', hopefully this idea is also fun for other members, if not oh well ;b I enjoy it.

Earth M(mirage) - mirage comics except vol. 3

Earth I (image) - TMNT vol. 1-3/Image universe

Earth 87 or F(fad) or P(popular) or O(Old/original) - the old '87 Toon didn't know which name fit better.

Earth A (adventures) - starts like the old toon but branches off to its own.

Earth M (movies) - the 3 movies and maybe the new movie

Earth V (videogames) - similar to the old toon but in this one the videogames take place

Earth 03 or N(new) - New toon from 03, not sure which name is better.

Earth NM or V2 or Venus? PowerRangers? - basically Next Mutation not sure what to call it,


-----

the names of all those universes are just something I thought of, if you guys have some better names suggest them, I just put up some options.

this is no 'official' list of universes of course, i'm still unsure on some wether they deserve their own 'verse like Earth V which could be shoe horned into the movie continuity(though many would hate that).,

maybe some people would like to have KE/PL TMNT as a different earth and a KE earth with all volumes being canon. Its likely when the new movie is released it will warrant a new Earth instead of being in the movies earth ,

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Earth 1: Mirage TMNT
Earth 2: Old Toon TMNT
Earth 3: Image TMNT
Earth Prime: Movie TMNT
Earth 8: New Toon TMNT
Earth 247: TMNT Fast Foward
Earth S: Archie TMNT
Earth Suck: Next Mutation

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

A mini-series about multiple Turtle earths might be pretty interesting, as long as they don't try to unify everything. Pre and post crisis turtles might get confusing.

I've never been able to read all of Crisis on Infinite Earths. There are just so many characters. They put like every last character in that story.

[Raph's Girl]

Since the Archie series was technically set in the Marvel universe (shortly after the turtles met the Archies, the Archies had an adventure with Punisher)...and even had the Marvel logo (I've noticed it on some of the issues I have)... I'll just continue to think of those TMNT as part of 616. :P

As for a mini dealing with all the universes... I actually once read a fan fic about that about 5 or 6 years ago.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Well the Turtles were connected with the Marvel universe in the first place since they share their origin with Daredevil (the guy getting hit with the TCRI cannister while saving the old man is implied to be Matt Murdock).

[Drtooth]

Earth 1: Mirage TMNT
Earth 2: Old Toon TMNT
Earth 3: Image TMNT
Earth Prime: Movie TMNT
Earth 8: New Toon TMNT
Earth 247: TMNT Fast Foward
Earth S: Archie TMNT
Earth Suck: Next Mutation

Hehhehheh! Actually, I thought FF and 2k3 were the same universe. Unless it's a subuniverse or something, so here's what I have

Earth Dimention 3A: Mirage
Earth Dimention 3B: 87 Toon
Earth Dimention 3C: 2k3 Series (includes FF)
Earth Dimention 3D: 90's Movies TMNT
Earth Dimention 3E: Image comics
Earth Dimention 3F: Archie Comics
Earth Dimention 3G: New Film
Hell: Next Mutation

[Raph's Girl]

Well the Turtles were connected with the Marvel universe in the first place since they share their origin with Daredevil (the guy getting hit with the TCRI cannister while saving the old man is implied to be Matt Murdock).

TMNT is a spoof of Daredevil but I wasn't aware that Daredevil himself was in it! :lol:

There's so many alternate earths... What about Shredderville, Same As It Never Was, and Super Turtles? Ya always gotta take into account for that.... the Super Turtles timeline was actually seen somewhat in an issue of Mirage Volume 4 via a device created by an Utrom that could see alternate timelines. *L*

[sdp]

While Fast Forward and Red Sky episodes are not liked by some they are obviously in continuity,

I'm debating if the videogames should require their own earth, I mean all the old ones I', since the new ones are mainly re-telling of the 2k3 series. But i'm not so sure if they require it they are all kind of based on the old toon but take their liberties as far as enemies go without any explanation since the story was obviously not a priority.


I haven't read the Archie crossover, but that universe is too fantastic even for the turtles (since stuff like sabrina teenage witch is canon in archie), so i'm not sure how the story goes, maybe its just a planet on their universe,


I haven't really read the comics and don't remember the old toon later episodes enough about their 'universes' but they can just be different planets on said universes and not a different 'universe' on its own.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

TMNT is a spoof of Daredevil but I wasn't aware that Daredevil himself was in it! :lol:


Well he isn't mentioned by name but it is pretty much implied that it's him.

I'd get a screengrab of it but I can't seem to get on the site.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Hehhehheh! Actually, I thought FF and 2k3 were the same universe. Unless it's a subuniverse or something, so here's what I have

Earth Dimention 3A: Mirage
Earth Dimention 3B: 87 Toon
Earth Dimention 3C: 2k3 Series (includes FF)
Earth Dimention 3D: 90's Movies TMNT
Earth Dimention 3E: Image comics
Earth Dimention 3F: Archie Comics
Earth Dimention 3G: New Film
Hell: Next Mutation


I made FF earth 247 because I was making a refrence to DC comic's the Legion of Super Heroes(which takes place in the future)

[sdp]

apparently there was a mexican comic with its own continuity and i forgot about the japanese OVA, i'm thinking of maybe having 'main' earths and a bunch of smaller ones for all the different universes with not much story like the OVA

[Galactus]

A mini-series about multiple Turtle earths might be pretty interesting, as long as they don't try to unify everything. Pre and post crisis turtles might get confusing.

Wasn't Peter planning a crossover with the Archie TMNT and Mirage.

Yep, here it is >>> http://www.planetracers.com/blast/prblast0056.html Sounds like it would have been a good read.

[sdp]

Well with the new DTV crossover and this being the 25th anniversary I decided to bump the topic with a revised version.

Earth Mirage - Canon Mirage comics, V1,2 and 4.

Earth Image - The Image comic universe including TMNT V1,2 and 3.

Earth 87 - The entire run of the old toon.

Earth 2k3 - The entire run of the new toon.*

Earth A - The TMNT Adventures Archie series.

Earth M - The Movies and TNM. **

------------------

* This earth can include the Dreamwave comics and the UK comics


** I think TMNT(2k7) fits better as its own continuity and not part of the original first three films since its so different however most people seem to prefer to lump them together so I did. Also the prequel comic and books for TMNT 2k7 would/could take place here. I also decided to stick TNM here since from the little I've seen it seems to take place in the movie continuity like them living on the subway. I know this is not going to be popular with any of you :lol: This would also make the movies in continuity with the Power Rangers :lol: :p maybe it should be called the Earth PR :lol:




Now besides those you can make countless of different "earths" like ones that have the non-canon V.1 stories, making the DW comics a separate earth, same with the movies etc. The 2k3 videogames are basically a re-telling of the 2k3 show but with a few differences so they could either be a different earth or be part of the 2k3 earth or just not not ignored. Alternate timelines from the shows could have their own Earth as well. There would be too many and I don't know them all anyway so I won't all these smaller (continuity wise) earths especially since I'm trying to make it simple and only post "major" earths. However these are two "non main" earths I consider important/big.

Earth VG - Were the old videogames take place. While similar to the 87 cartoon they were not in continuity with it but all the old games from the original series could be placed in the same continuity without much problem. Unlike the 2k3 games these aren't retellings with alterations so they could merit their Earth.



Earth T - Toy universe, the bio's on the back of the toys included a slightly different origin story for the turtles and a lot of the bad guys had way different bio's as well not to mention characters that didn't appear on the show so I think it merits its own earth.


Edit: crap forgot about a few more that may merit their own earth:

Earth J - This is where the TMNT Manga (which were just adaptations of OT episodes done manga style) and the TMNT OVAs take place). This one is kind of small and at least in japan part of the OT so maybe it should be shoehorned into the 87 Earth but not sure. I mean I also think TMNT 2k7 should be its own earth but placed it in the movie universe to make things simpler).

Earth ATB The TMNT RPG book, that spanned quite a few books (ATB is for After the Bomb)

There is also the comic strips, i've only read a few of them, I guess they could be set in the 87 show from the few I've read. Or maybe I should indeed work on a version with hundreds of earths.. I feel pretty geeky and dorky posting all of this, even knowing how geeky most people are here.

When I originally thought of this back in early 2006 way before I posted a topic on it was because I thought It'd be awesome for a crossover to ever happen and this way I was organizing the earths.

[Cipher]

Without assigning them letters or anything, I have always thought there were seven main Turtles continuities:

1. Mirage (Volume 1, Tales Vol 1, Tales Vol 2, Volume 2, Volume 4)

2. Image (Volume 1, Tales Vol 1, Volume 2, Volume 3)

3. 1987 Cartoon

4. TMNT Adventures

5. Movies (1990 Film - 2007 Film)

6. The Next Mutation

7. 2003 Cartoon

Plus additional micro-continuities, such as the video-games, the slightly different origins described by the toylines, the Palladium Roleplaying sourcebooks, and various others. There are also a few "universe-within-a-universe"s, such as the Super Turtles world visited in both Mirage and the 2003 show.

The one that throws me off is the Dreamwave series. Most of the stories were simply 2003 episodes told from a different perspective, and the few original tales don't interfere with the 2003 universe in anyway. I'd say it could be seperate, but it's short and just as easily grouped in with the 2003 series.

The Next Mutation is to the movies as TMNT Adventures is to the 1987 cartoon. They share background elements (the subway station, Splinter's missing ear, Oroku Saki's portrayal), but the way events play out, they cannot take place in the same universe. For instance, Shredder dies in Secret of the Ooze but is alive and well in The Next Mutation. In addition, Casey and April don't seem to exist in The Next Mutation.

And just to cap off this monstrously nerdy post, a list of items that are themselves multi-universal, and/or can access the various TMNT universes:

*Simultaneous' Time Sceptre

*Krang and Donatello's Dimensional Portals

*Cudley the Cowlick

*The Battle Nexus

*Glurin's Interdimensional Viewing-Thingy (Vol 4 #7)

*Galactose the Space Vampire/Living Pun

[sdp]

I think with trying to make the Earths simple and not complicated I ended up making things more complicated, so yeah instead of having a simpler few earths maybe it is better to have more...


So in that case we should have:
Earth NP - Earth for the News Paper comic strips.

Instead of putting them on the 87 earth its probably better for them to have their own continuity.

And if we're going to make earths then lets go ahead and give the 2k3 videogames their own earth
Earth VG 2k3 - Were the VG based on the 2k3 universe take place. Slightly the same but with a few differences including extra things that never happened on the main continuity.


The Next Mutation is to the movies as TMNT Adventures is to the 1987 cartoon. They share background elements (the subway station, Splinter's missing ear, Oroku Saki's portrayal), but the way events play out, they cannot take place in the same universe. For instance, Shredder dies in Secret of the Ooze but is alive and well in The Next Mutation. In addition, Casey and April don't seem to exist in The Next Mutation.




Shredder died in the first movie as well, in fact his second death was more likely that he survived than his first. Also Casey Jones was absent without a reason on TMNT II, same reason here. Unlike Archie which started as the OT and branched off. Besides the turtles don't seem to act pretty much like they did on TMNT 3. I know fans just don't like the idea of TNM being in the movie continuity since they like it and hate TNM but there are more connections than contradictions.


Anyways if we're not going to keep it simple then lets not lump TMNT 2k7 on the movie earth. The only solid connection it has is the time scepter, however various TMNT universes share items so why couldn't the time scepter be in two continuities? Besides that the movie is nothing like the past movies not only that it is. I can go a lot more into detail if anyone wants. Also there is enough stuff to make this earth big enough on its own:

Earth Imagi - the 2k7 movie/novel adaptation/prequel comics/prequel books/ videogame extras/ toys/ even the TMNT 2 poster.

There are also a few "universe-within-a-universe"s, such as the Super Turtles world visited in both Mirage and the 2003 show.
I either haven't seen/read or don't remember most so I can't comment on most of those yet.


The one that throws me off is the Dreamwave series. Most of the stories were simply 2003 episodes told from a different perspective, and the few original tales don't interfere with the 2003 universe in anyway. I'd say it could be seperate, but it's short and just as easily grouped in with the 2003 series.
Who knows, maybe had the comics continued it may/would have branched off on its own continuity like Archie. Or maybe they would have tried to keep doing stories that didn't affect it.

But yeah it seems like so irrelevant to make a new earth just to fit this stories that fit perfectly in continuity. I say they stay in the same earth.

With the UK comics they did with FF I also think they are probably short stories mostly comedic that don't change the status quo. So I'd also like to place them there..






At first I thought of this as maybe as a group project but since pretty much almost no one cared I'm posting my earths since this is entertaining for me.

[Newton Gimmick]

Sorry but you can't lob the TNM and TMNT movies together while saying that the Archie and Toon universes are different.

Casey and April don't exist at ALL in the TNM. That's much different than the movies. April appears in all the movies as a core character and Casey's in 3 out of the 4.

Oh and TNM retcons the turtles to have a SISTER, that's a pretty big leap.

Not to mention the return of Shredder when he was already killed for good in the movies.

TNM is it's own universe.

There is little to nothing that connects it to the movies. Other than being live action and the subway set.

That's like saying the other universes all should be the same because they all live in the sewer and are 2D.

[Buslady]

Earth M - The Movies and TNM. **



Oh hell no, not even. These are two WAY different 'verses...

[sdp]

Sorry but you can't lob the TNM and TMNT movies together while saying that the Archie and Toon universes are different.

Casey and April don't exist at ALL in the TNM. That's much different than the movies. April appears in all the movies as a core character and Casey's in 3 out of the 4.

Archie contradicts the OT and is clearly its own continuity but the same can't be said for TNM.

Just because you don't see Casey and April doesn't mean they don't exist. Like mentioned Casey didn't appear in 2 with no explanation or references like he didn't even exisst. Unless it was stated in the show that they've never met a human, in that case then I would definitely place them on their own earth.

Its a lot more inconsistent to place TMNT 2k7 in continuity with the movies.



Oh and TNM retcons the turtles to have a SISTER, that's a pretty big leap.

Not to mention the return of Shredder when he was already killed for good in the movies.

The whole point of the show is that they have a sister they didn't know about. Its no more of a retcon to the movies as it is to the actual show itself. So the show retcons itself on the first episode? And I usually associate retcon when something is actually changed like the death of a superhero. Here nothing is changed, more is just added to the origins we didn't know yet, its not like its making erasing something that happened. If that were the case tons of works of fiction retcon themselves in their first movie/book/show. Since Extra information is later added.

Like I mentioned Shredder was killed for good on the first movie yet he appears in the second. And his first death is a lot harder to swallow than his second death. Its much more likely he survived his second death over the first. Not to mention if you are trying to count TMNT 2k7 in continuity that would mean Shredder would be back again regardless.


TNM is it's own universe.

There is little to nothing that connects it to the movies. Other than being live action and the subway set.

That's like saying the other universes all should be the same because they all live in the sewer and are 2D.


Most people love the first TMNT movie and despise TNM. But thats no reason for them to be separate.

Splinter has his Movie origin, which at the time the 87 cartoon origin was more established. Shredder had been defeated and thought dead, the subway, their personalities are very similar to turtles III. The show was clearly made to be a sequel to the live action movies.

Its not like that at all. Other Universes contradict themselves. Hell if TMNT 2k3 didn't contradict the OT then yeah I'd probably argue it took place in the 87 continuity but it does.

If there is enough evidence I'd categorize it as its own continuity but I only see weak points against it while it has stronger connections.


Oh hell no, not even. These are two WAY different 'verses...
Any reasons why?
Personal preference does not count.

[Cipher]

Archie contradicts the OT and is clearly its own continuity but the same can't be said for TNM.No. Exactly the same can be said for TNM. It's the exact same f*cking thing. They start off with similar elements but quickly establish their own continuity.

Just because you don't see Casey and April doesn't mean they don't exist.There was absolutely zero mention of them. And, if I remember correctly, there were plans to actually introduce new versions of the characters in season two, before the show was cancelled.

Unless it was stated in the show that they've never met a human, in that case then I would definitely place them on their own earth.I might be wrong, but something like this might have been mentioned in the episode where the Turtles take in Splinter's blind human friend.

Its a lot more inconsistent to place TMNT 2k7 in continuity with the movies.What? No. You seem to be grouping by style and tone, when you should be grouping by facts. TMNT has an incredibly different feel to the first three movies, but all the establishing facts in it line up well with them. On the other hand, TNM has a similar style to the movies, but every other aspect of it contradicts them.

The whole point of the show is that they have a sister they didn't know about. No, it's not a retcon, if it took place after the third movie. But the April and Shredder things indicate that this is not the case.

Like I mentioned Shredder was killed for good on the first movie yet he appears in the second. And his first death is a lot harder to swallow than his second death. Its much more likely he survived his second death over the first.Except that he was a hideously disfigured mutant at the time of his second death? And that TNM made no attempts to explain that away?

Not to mention if you are trying to count TMNT 2k7 in continuity that would mean Shredder would be back again regardless....He's dead in that movie. The narrator says so. Leo says so. And even if there were plans to bring him back down the line, they'd at least have an explanation, which TNM made no attempt to do. (Because it's a different continuity.)

Most people love the first TMNT movie and despise TNM. But thats no reason for them to be separate.Stop. I don't care about how good the things are. If a sh*tty TMNT coloring book has indisputable and important ties to the movie contuinity, I'll consider it part of that universe.

Believe me, if any evidence pointed to TNM being a continuation of the movies, I'd be the first to tell you. It doesn't. It contradicts them at every turn past the origin story.

Splinter has his Movie origin, which at the time the 87 cartoon origin was more established. Shredder had been defeated and thought dead, the subway, their personalities are very similar to turtles III. The show was clearly made to be a sequel to the live action movies.This is exactly what I meant when I said "TNM is to the movies as Adventures is to the 1987 toon."

They share the same background elements. But beyond that they're established as their own, very different continuities.

Its not like that at all. Other Universes contradict themselves. Hell if TMNT 2k3 didn't contradict the OT then yeah I'd probably argue it took place in the 87 continuity but it does.Just like TNM contradicts the movies?

If there is enough evidence I'd categorize it as its own continuity but I only see weak points against it while it has stronger connections.Ok, wait. Let me get this straight. According to you...

Reasons why TNM connects to the movies:

They live in a subway
Splinter's missing an ear
Their personalities are passingly similar


Reasons why TNM cannot connect to the movies:

Ignores the deaths and existence of major movie characters and events


That's like me saying that Batman: TAS shares continuity with the Tim Burton films because the music is the same and both Batmans wear black capes. Nevermind the fact that Joker is killed in the movie, because the music and cape totally prove it. Besides, the Joker could've, like, totally come back. They just didn't want to explain it because it's obviously the same universe.

What you're getting at is that TNM is inspired by the movies. I won't argue with that. It shares its background. But as far as strong evidence goes, TNM's direct contradiction of actual events in the movies removes it from that universe. Think of it as a branching sort of thing. Hamato Yoshi is killed by Shredder, Splinter attacks and has his ear sliced off. From there, events can continue on to become either TNM, or the movies.

[sdp]

Reasons why TNM cannot connect to the movies:

Ignores the deaths and existence of major movie characters and events





I disagree with your analogies. And your reasons why it can't connect to the movies doesn't seem really strong. But I can't judge yet until I watch the show...which I hope to do soon. I'm tired of waiting for Disney to release it so I'll just watch the UK version instead. Maybe after I watch it I'll realize that it really isn't in continuity. Its just from the little bit I've watched and the connections and contradictions i've read it has it mostly appears to definitely be in continuity with the movies. But I'll refrain from debating until I watch it.


What? No. You seem to be grouping by style and tone, when you should be grouping by facts. TMNT has an incredibly different feel to the first three movies, but all the establishing facts in it line up well with them. On the other hand, TNM has a similar style to the movies, but every other aspect of it contradicts them.



However THIS I can debate. The only evidence that TMNT is in continuity with the movies (besides being a movie) is the time scepter from the third movie. However various TMNT continuities have shared items no reason to think that these turtles also had an adventure with the time scepter.

These turtles act NOTHING like any of the three movies they are totally different characters. April is not a reporter. Also based on the novelization/prequel books/prequel comic books and even the movie itself you can see this continuity is a lot different. They've fought the triceratons, Silver Sentry exists in this continuity, Karai etc. This universe is too sci-fi/comic booky unlike the more "realistic" version of the first three movies, even when comparing to the time travel of the third movie.

Leading up to the movie I really wanted it to be part of continuity but after watching it I realized it made no sense to do it. Shredder being defeated is hardly a connection, he's been defeated in all TMNT media.

[Blade Raider]

This reminds me of a Mario timeline I saw once. The live-action movie was on the timeline and under it, it said "Yes it happened, get over it."

Since many are making vol. 1 & 2 of Mirage canon with multiple timelines (ie Mirage vs. Image) why don't we make 2 movie continuities. TMNT directly contradicts TNM (aka: Where's Venus? Considering it's about family, she would need at least a mention), so they can't be in the same continuity. Other than that, neither directly contradicts the first 3 movies. Therefore...

Movie A: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TNM

Movie B: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TMNT

[Cipher]

Other than that, neither directly contradicts the first 3 movies.But TNM does contradict the first three movies.

Movie A: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TNM

Movie B: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TMNTMore like:

Origin of movie Splinter ----> Movies 1-3 (Maybe 4)
Origin of movie Splinter ----> TNM

I'll admit the fourth movie is debatable as its own continuity. I'd much more readily accept that as its own universe than I would TNM being a part of movie continuity. Because that just makes no sense. The Super Shredder and April things are huge, and no one has provided an explanation for them.

[sdp]

Well I finally saw TNM and I'm pretty confident that it takes place in the movie continuity. The show was obviously made as a sequel to the movies.

The turtles characterization is basically the same as the movies except more fleshed out. The foot costumes are the same as the movies, this continuity is based more "realistic" like the movies are. Not to mention they live in the subway. They have the same origin instead of the OT one which was what the turtles were known for at the time.


Contradictions are really tame.

Shredder being alive?

Well he died in the first movie too, in fact the death in his first movie is more definite, he falls off a building and then is crushed by a trash compactor. On the second movie only the deck falls on him, and he was super shredder.

Well he's Super Shredder, well maybe the effect wore off or he ate the same donuts.

No April/Casey?

This is no different from no Casey in the second movie that seems to happen just a little bit after the first one. Or no Keno during the third movie.

Besides April makes three cameos as a reporter on TV and both were slated to come out during a second season. Also the turtles had already met humans in this continuity and are more than fine to interact with them, its nothing new for them.

Really those are just nitpicks and the OT and NT and even the comics have their fair share of small plotholes of things that weren't explained in their entirely.

I know most fans are not going to consider it canon because they hate it, but come on theres plenty of evidence and nothing outright contradicts it. Its obvious the show was made as a sequel to the movies.

Heck, make the five parter pilot with a few changes in the script and a higher budget and it could have easily been TMNT IV the movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Movie A: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TNM

Movie B: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TMNT

That's it, exactly. You have a multiple choice continuity... you can either go down a path with movie 1, 2, 3, and then TNM, or go 1, 2, 3, and 4... but you can't do both TNM and 4 in one timeline.

And yes, TNM was obviously made as a continuance of the first three movies. And publically. I remember how Eastman used to talk about how it was the movie TMNT but they were older now, and it would be so much grittier than the movies, that the Turtles would be angrier and such... yeah...

And, if I remember correctly, there were plans to actually introduce new versions of the characters in season two, before the show was cancelled.

I remember that being announced. Except I believe you're making up/misremembering the part about "new versions." The announcement was just "Yes, April and Casey will be in Season 2."

[ToTheNines]

I haven't seen Turtles Forever, but I have listened to some of it and read a good bit of the spoilers. Based on what I've picked up I'd say there's a "mulitiple choice continuity" for the OT too.

87-A: Seasons 1-10

87-B: Seasons 1-7 plus Turtles Forever

I know Zarius' argument was that TF could be after season 10 just because of how loose continuity was in the OT, but I like it better this way.

[stayunspoiled]

I think Usagi's Earth should be included also.

That Earth has crossed over many times both on print and video.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Alright... I'm going to throw my two cents in on if Next Mutation is in continuity with movie 1-3. It COULD be. But wouldn't Shredder still be Super Shredder? It's possible that he could have returned to normal but I don't think it fits all that well.

TMNT fits with the first 3 movies certainly the first but the other two have cameo nods so it may as well be all 3.

Next Mutation has the subway home yes and it could certainly take place after the first movie regardless. However making it take place after the 2nd is a bit of a stretch because much is left unexplained BUT it could be potentially considered part of that universe.

So the only major contraction is that TMNT and Next Mutation can't be in the same timeline. Everything else is plausible with the theory of Next Mutation being in continuity with movies 1-3 but the question remains how did Shredder get back to normal much less survive his "second death"?

It IS possible that Next Mutation happens after movies 1-3 but asside from Splinter's origin and the Turtles living in the subway there isn't much proof that it IS in continuity with movies beyond TMNT 1 (meaning the events of TMNT II could have played out differently with the turtles still getting their new home in the abandoned subway in some manner but Super Shredder is never created). That is unless there's something in TMNT 3 that relates to the Next Mutation timeline and I honestly don't remember if there was anything like that which was not just a hold over from some of the events that happened in TMNT 1 and 2.

[Cipher]

Not touching the TNM/Movie connection again. To me, the Super Shredder thing is a game breaker, but if Eastman said, and not just during initial conception, that it was a continuation of the movies then so be it. Or it could happen after the first movie but not the second, etc. All a big mess.

I haven't seen Turtles Forever, but I have listened to some of it and read a good bit of the spoilers. Based on what I've picked up I'd say there's a "mulitiple choice continuity" for the OT too.

87-A: Seasons 1-10

87-B: Seasons 1-7 plus Turtles Forever

I know Zarius' argument was that TF could be after season 10 just because of how loose continuity was in the OT, but I like it better this way.It can't be after season ten or season seven. Season seven leaves Shredder and Krang stranded on Earth while the Technodrome is stuck in Dimension X. Season eight picks up directly where season seven left off.

Season ten sees the Technodrome completely destroyed and Shredder and Krang trapped in Dimension X. I'd place Turtles Forever anywhere between seasons three and six. If you want to get nit-picky, it's probably post season five because the Turtles remark that they "battle Shredder for mutagen all the time," which certaily was a trope that hit its stride around that time.

Without question though, it messes with that universe in irreconsilable ways, creating a split timeline around that point.

Ditto for the Mirage universe. Ch'rell taking out Saki (I've been led to believe he dies, but someone correct me if I'm wrong) has huge consequences. Everything involving the Utroms, Stockman, and other characters would still occur, but the Turtles not killing Shredder would mean huge changes for everything Foot-related, and for the Turtles' personalties and philosophies. So there's another timeline split from the first issue.

Headache.

[ToTheNines]

I think Usagi's Earth should be included also.

That Earth has crossed over many times both on print and video.

Definitely not... Usagi's world in Mirage is different from his world in the OT and the NT.

It IS possible that Next Mutation happens after movies 1-3 but asside from Splinter's origin and the Turtles living in the subway there isn't much proof that it IS in continuity with movies beyond TMNT 1

I say Next Mutation is not in line with the movies. In one episode, Splinter says to Shredder that they've battled thousands of times.

While it obviously takes ideas from the movie, it's not canon.


It can't be after season ten or season seven. Season seven leaves Shredder and Krang stranded on Earth while the Technodrome is stuck in Dimension X. Season eight picks up directly where season seven left off.

Season ten sees the Technodrome completely destroyed and Shredder and Krang trapped in Dimension X. I'd place Turtles Forever anywhere between seasons three and six. If you want to get nit-picky, it's probably post season five because the Turtles remark that they "battle Shredder for mutagen all the time," which certaily was a trope that hit its stride around that time.

Without question though, it messes with that universe in irreconsilable ways, creating a split timeline around that point.

Ditto for the Mirage universe. Ch'rell taking out Saki (I've been led to believe he dies, but someone correct me if I'm wrong) has huge consequences. Everything involving the Utroms, Stockman, and other characters would still occur, but the Turtles not killing Shredder would mean huge changes for everything Foot-related, and for the Turtles' personalties and philosophies. So there's another timeline split from the first issue.

So?

Say Red Sky never happens: S&K could still get back to Dimension X and bring back the Technodrome for Turtles forever.

Say Redy Sky does happen: They just rebuild it.

[stayunspoiled]

Definitely not... Usagi's world in Mirage is different from his world in the OT and the NT.


I meant that Usagi's Earth is an Earth that gets crossed into and should be included.

Maybe we should include two or three different versions of Usagi's Earth - OT NT Mirage???

It's kinda like how DC is included in Marvels list of multipul Earths.

Cerebus the Aardvark should have his Earth included too?

A really good reference is the Marvel Multiverse article on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_(Marvel_Comics)

[jalexbrown]

As far as TNM being part of the movie timeline, I can bank on it. There are certain continuity errors that aren't explained away, but there's a difference between something not being explained and something not happening. So while Shredder being alive and not being Super-Shredder (and not having Tatsu; nobody mentioned that, to my surprise) is hard to swallow, I can do it with a little imagination. As far as TMNT 2K7 being part of the movie timeline...that's something I can't jive with. For starters, Splinter's ear was intact in the 2K7 movie, which is a very direct contridiction. Also, at what point did they give up the subway home (which they seemed to think was a sweet pad) to go back a regular sewer home? You can't pin it on the foot finding the location, because according to the 2K7 movie, the Turtles thought the foot was done after they killed Shredder. There are props in the 2K7 movie that throw back to the movies, but we can equally assume that those props are alternate universe props and not props that are contained within the continuity of the movies.

That said, there are some things that *could* be ties. In the 2K7 movie, the Turtles thought that they killed Shredder. If the 2K7 movie exists in its own universe (which I have accepted that it does), then there is some unexplained backstory as to the death of the Shredder (which also leads me to wonder why they bothered with the dumb 2K7 story when the alternate universe killing the Shredder story would have been much more interesting). In the 2K7 movies the Turtles already knew April and Casey. That's easy to swallow as a "This takes place in an alternate universe, but we didn't feel it was important to explain how they met" type of deal.

As far as April not being a reporter, I think this could go either way. It would have been more than possible for April to quit being a reporter and start doing the antique thing through some untold backstory, but it's equally possible that April wasn't a reporter to begin with in the 2K7 universe. All things considered, I'd have to consider the 2K7 movie to be part of its own universe, and not part of the original trilogy/TNM.

[Cowabunga Carl]

After reading the comic prequels to TMNT it is hard to say that it is part 4. In Raph’s issue they are fighting Triceritons and it isn’t the first time they have done so. In Leo’s he is training with the Ancient One and the Tribunal. TMNT seems more like an alternate universe where they drew from everything and didn’t tie it to any one incarnation.

[sdp]

When I made this thread I always had in my mind some kind of crossover but never thought it'd actually happen, now with Turtles Forever airing and people discussing the Multiverse, I decided to bump it again.

[ToTheNines]

Cool.

Now that I've seen it, I say Turtles Forever takes place after season 10. You can see a new building where the old Channel 6 used to be, and the new one is about a block over.

And after the final episode, things just went back to the goofy was they were before.

[TMNTD]

So what universe of the Tmnt would the COWBOYS OF MOO MESA, THE FLAMING CARROT, CREED, and THE PRE-TEEN DIRTY GENE KUNG FU KANGAROOS fit in ? ( the turtles all made cameos in each one)

[ToTheNines]

Pretty sure those were all the Mirage turtles.

[sdp]

Turtles Forever includes a huge multiverse and including small stuff like the dreamwaves comic as a different continuity which I had just placed as part as the 2k3 show here. It also gives them names as Turtles Prime and Turtles 88 which I don't necessarily like but oh well...