Crisis on Infinite Shells

[sdp]

Crisis on infinite Shells

I like many grew up with the turtles, was a huge fan but eventually moved on, it was not until about 3 years ago when I realized I was still a big fan. anyways I find all their different universes are interesting and being a DC multiverse fan I decided to group them into different 'earths', hopefully this idea is also fun for other members, if not oh well ;b I enjoy it.

Earth M(mirage) - mirage comics except vol. 3

Earth I (image) - TMNT vol. 1-3/Image universe

Earth 87 or F(fad) or P(popular) or O(Old/original) - the old '87 Toon didn't know which name fit better.

Earth A (adventures) - starts like the old toon but branches off to its own.

Earth M (movies) - the 3 movies and maybe the new movie

Earth V (videogames) - similar to the old toon but in this one the videogames take place

Earth 03 or N(new) - New toon from 03, not sure which name is better.

Earth NM or V2 or Venus? PowerRangers? - basically Next Mutation not sure what to call it,


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the names of all those universes are just something I thought of, if you guys have some better names suggest them, I just put up some options.

this is no 'official' list of universes of course, i'm still unsure on some wether they deserve their own 'verse like Earth V which could be shoe horned into the movie continuity(though many would hate that).,

maybe some people would like to have KE/PL TMNT as a different earth and a KE earth with all volumes being canon. Its likely when the new movie is released it will warrant a new Earth instead of being in the movies earth ,

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Earth 1: Mirage TMNT
Earth 2: Old Toon TMNT
Earth 3: Image TMNT
Earth Prime: Movie TMNT
Earth 8: New Toon TMNT
Earth 247: TMNT Fast Foward
Earth S: Archie TMNT
Earth Suck: Next Mutation

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

A mini-series about multiple Turtle earths might be pretty interesting, as long as they don't try to unify everything. Pre and post crisis turtles might get confusing.

I've never been able to read all of Crisis on Infinite Earths. There are just so many characters. They put like every last character in that story.

[Raph's Girl]

Since the Archie series was technically set in the Marvel universe (shortly after the turtles met the Archies, the Archies had an adventure with Punisher)...and even had the Marvel logo (I've noticed it on some of the issues I have)... I'll just continue to think of those TMNT as part of 616.

As for a mini dealing with all the universes... I actually once read a fan fic about that about 5 or 6 years ago.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Well the Turtles were connected with the Marvel universe in the first place since they share their origin with Daredevil (the guy getting hit with the TCRI cannister while saving the old man is implied to be Matt Murdock).

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Earth 1: Mirage TMNT
Earth 2: Old Toon TMNT
Earth 3: Image TMNT
Earth Prime: Movie TMNT
Earth 8: New Toon TMNT
Earth 247: TMNT Fast Foward
Earth S: Archie TMNT
Earth Suck: Next Mutation

Hehhehheh! Actually, I thought FF and 2k3 were the same universe. Unless it's a subuniverse or something, so here's what I have

Earth Dimention 3A: Mirage
Earth Dimention 3B: 87 Toon
Earth Dimention 3C: 2k3 Series (includes FF)
Earth Dimention 3D: 90's Movies TMNT
Earth Dimention 3E: Image comics
Earth Dimention 3F: Archie Comics
Earth Dimention 3G: New Film
Hell: Next Mutation

[Raph's Girl]

Originally Posted by hobbit_mania

Well the Turtles were connected with the Marvel universe in the first place since they share their origin with Daredevil (the guy getting hit with the TCRI cannister while saving the old man is implied to be Matt Murdock).

TMNT is a spoof of Daredevil but I wasn't aware that Daredevil himself was in it!

There's so many alternate earths... What about Shredderville, Same As It Never Was, and Super Turtles? Ya always gotta take into account for that.... the Super Turtles timeline was actually seen somewhat in an issue of Mirage Volume 4 via a device created by an Utrom that could see alternate timelines. *L*

[sdp]

While Fast Forward and Red Sky episodes are not liked by some they are obviously in continuity,

I'm debating if the videogames should require their own earth, I mean all the old ones I', since the new ones are mainly re-telling of the 2k3 series. But i'm not so sure if they require it they are all kind of based on the old toon but take their liberties as far as enemies go without any explanation since the story was obviously not a priority.


I haven't read the Archie crossover, but that universe is too fantastic even for the turtles (since stuff like sabrina teenage witch is canon in archie), so i'm not sure how the story goes, maybe its just a planet on their universe,


I haven't really read the comics and don't remember the old toon later episodes enough about their 'universes' but they can just be different planets on said universes and not a different 'universe' on its own.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

TMNT is a spoof of Daredevil but I wasn't aware that Daredevil himself was in it!

Well he isn't mentioned by name but it is pretty much implied that it's him.

I'd get a screengrab of it but I can't seem to get on the site.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

Hehhehheh! Actually, I thought FF and 2k3 were the same universe. Unless it's a subuniverse or something, so here's what I have

Earth Dimention 3A: Mirage
Earth Dimention 3B: 87 Toon
Earth Dimention 3C: 2k3 Series (includes FF)
Earth Dimention 3D: 90's Movies TMNT
Earth Dimention 3E: Image comics
Earth Dimention 3F: Archie Comics
Earth Dimention 3G: New Film
Hell: Next Mutation

I made FF earth 247 because I was making a refrence to DC comic's the Legion of Super Heroes(which takes place in the future)

[sdp]

apparently there was a mexican comic with its own continuity and i forgot about the japanese OVA, i'm thinking of maybe having 'main' earths and a bunch of smaller ones for all the different universes with not much story like the OVA

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Mr._Mutant_Man

A mini-series about multiple Turtle earths might be pretty interesting, as long as they don't try to unify everything. Pre and post crisis turtles might get confusing.

Wasn't Peter planning a crossover with the Archie TMNT and Mirage.

Yep, here it is >>> http://www.planetracers.com/blast/prblast0056.html Sounds like it would have been a good read.

[sdp]

Well with the new DTV crossover and this being the 25th anniversary I decided to bump the topic with a revised version.

Earth Mirage - Canon Mirage comics, V1,2 and 4.

Earth Image - The Image comic universe including TMNT V1,2 and 3.

Earth 87 - The entire run of the old toon.

Earth 2k3 - The entire run of the new toon.*

Earth A - The TMNT Adventures Archie series.

Earth M - The Movies and TNM. **

------------------

* This earth can include the Dreamwave comics and the UK comics


** I think TMNT(2k7) fits better as its own continuity and not part of the original first three films since its so different however most people seem to prefer to lump them together so I did. Also the prequel comic and books for TMNT 2k7 would/could take place here. I also decided to stick TNM here since from the little I've seen it seems to take place in the movie continuity like them living on the subway. I know this is not going to be popular with any of you This would also make the movies in continuity with the Power Rangers :p maybe it should be called the Earth PR




Now besides those you can make countless of different "earths" like ones that have the non-canon V.1 stories, making the DW comics a separate earth, same with the movies etc. The 2k3 videogames are basically a re-telling of the 2k3 show but with a few differences so they could either be a different earth or be part of the 2k3 earth or just not not ignored. Alternate timelines from the shows could have their own Earth as well. There would be too many and I don't know them all anyway so I won't all these smaller (continuity wise) earths especially since I'm trying to make it simple and only post "major" earths. However these are two "non main" earths I consider important/big.

Earth VG - Were the old videogames take place. While similar to the 87 cartoon they were not in continuity with it but all the old games from the original series could be placed in the same continuity without much problem. Unlike the 2k3 games these aren't retellings with alterations so they could merit their Earth.



Earth T - Toy universe, the bio's on the back of the toys included a slightly different origin story for the turtles and a lot of the bad guys had way different bio's as well not to mention characters that didn't appear on the show so I think it merits its own earth.


Edit: crap forgot about a few more that may merit their own earth:

Earth J - This is where the TMNT Manga (which were just adaptations of OT episodes done manga style) and the TMNT OVAs take place). This one is kind of small and at least in japan part of the OT so maybe it should be shoehorned into the 87 Earth but not sure. I mean I also think TMNT 2k7 should be its own earth but placed it in the movie universe to make things simpler).

Earth ATB The TMNT RPG book, that spanned quite a few books (ATB is for After the Bomb)

There is also the comic strips, i've only read a few of them, I guess they could be set in the 87 show from the few I've read. Or maybe I should indeed work on a version with hundreds of earths.. I feel pretty geeky and dorky posting all of this, even knowing how geeky most people are here.

When I originally thought of this back in early 2006 way before I posted a topic on it was because I thought It'd be awesome for a crossover to ever happen and this way I was organizing the earths.

[Cipher]

Without assigning them letters or anything, I have always thought there were seven main Turtles continuities:

1. Mirage (Volume 1, Tales Vol 1, Tales Vol 2, Volume 2, Volume 4)

2. Image (Volume 1, Tales Vol 1, Volume 2, Volume 3)

3. 1987 Cartoon

4. TMNT Adventures

5. Movies (1990 Film - 2007 Film)

6. The Next Mutation

7. 2003 Cartoon

Plus additional micro-continuities, such as the video-games, the slightly different origins described by the toylines, the Palladium Roleplaying sourcebooks, and various others. There are also a few "universe-within-a-universe"s, such as the Super Turtles world visited in both Mirage and the 2003 show.

The one that throws me off is the Dreamwave series. Most of the stories were simply 2003 episodes told from a different perspective, and the few original tales don't interfere with the 2003 universe in anyway. I'd say it could be seperate, but it's short and just as easily grouped in with the 2003 series.

The Next Mutation is to the movies as TMNT Adventures is to the 1987 cartoon. They share background elements (the subway station, Splinter's missing ear, Oroku Saki's portrayal), but the way events play out, they cannot take place in the same universe. For instance, Shredder dies in Secret of the Ooze but is alive and well in The Next Mutation. In addition, Casey and April don't seem to exist in The Next Mutation.

And just to cap off this monstrously nerdy post, a list of items that are themselves multi-universal, and/or can access the various TMNT universes:

*Simultaneous' Time Sceptre

*Krang and Donatello's Dimensional Portals

*Cudley the Cowlick

*The Battle Nexus

*Glurin's Interdimensional Viewing-Thingy (Vol 4 #7)

*Galactose the Space Vampire/Living Pun

[sdp]

I think with trying to make the Earths simple and not complicated I ended up making things more complicated, so yeah instead of having a simpler few earths maybe it is better to have more...


So in that case we should have:
Earth NP - Earth for the News Paper comic strips.

Instead of putting them on the 87 earth its probably better for them to have their own continuity.

And if we're going to make earths then lets go ahead and give the 2k3 videogames their own earth
Earth VG 2k3 - Were the VG based on the 2k3 universe take place. Slightly the same but with a few differences including extra things that never happened on the main continuity.

Originally Posted by Cipher

The Next Mutation is to the movies as TMNT Adventures is to the 1987 cartoon. They share background elements (the subway station, Splinter's missing ear, Oroku Saki's portrayal), but the way events play out, they cannot take place in the same universe. For instance, Shredder dies in Secret of the Ooze but is alive and well in The Next Mutation. In addition, Casey and April don't seem to exist in The Next Mutation.

Shredder died in the first movie as well, in fact his second death was more likely that he survived than his first. Also Casey Jones was absent without a reason on TMNT II, same reason here. Unlike Archie which started as the OT and branched off. Besides the turtles don't seem to act pretty much like they did on TMNT 3. I know fans just don't like the idea of TNM being in the movie continuity since they like it and hate TNM but there are more connections than contradictions.


Anyways if we're not going to keep it simple then lets not lump TMNT 2k7 on the movie earth. The only solid connection it has is the time scepter, however various TMNT universes share items so why couldn't the time scepter be in two continuities? Besides that the movie is nothing like the past movies not only that it is. I can go a lot more into detail if anyone wants. Also there is enough stuff to make this earth big enough on its own:

Earth Imagi - the 2k7 movie/novel adaptation/prequel comics/prequel books/ videogame extras/ toys/ even the TMNT 2 poster.

Originally Posted by Cipher

There are also a few "universe-within-a-universe"s, such as the Super Turtles world visited in both Mirage and the 2003 show.

I either haven't seen/read or don't remember most so I can't comment on most of those yet.

The one that throws me off is the Dreamwave series. Most of the stories were simply 2003 episodes told from a different perspective, and the few original tales don't interfere with the 2003 universe in anyway. I'd say it could be seperate, but it's short and just as easily grouped in with the 2003 series.

Who knows, maybe had the comics continued it may/would have branched off on its own continuity like Archie. Or maybe they would have tried to keep doing stories that didn't affect it.

But yeah it seems like so irrelevant to make a new earth just to fit this stories that fit perfectly in continuity. I say they stay in the same earth.

With the UK comics they did with FF I also think they are probably short stories mostly comedic that don't change the status quo. So I'd also like to place them there..






At first I thought of this as maybe as a group project but since pretty much almost no one cared I'm posting my earths since this is entertaining for me.

[Newton Gimmick]

Sorry but you can't lob the TNM and TMNT movies together while saying that the Archie and Toon universes are different.

Casey and April don't exist at ALL in the TNM. That's much different than the movies. April appears in all the movies as a core character and Casey's in 3 out of the 4.

Oh and TNM retcons the turtles to have a SISTER, that's a pretty big leap.

Not to mention the return of Shredder when he was already killed for good in the movies.

TNM is it's own universe.

There is little to nothing that connects it to the movies. Other than being live action and the subway set.

That's like saying the other universes all should be the same because they all live in the sewer and are 2D.

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by sdp

Earth M - The Movies and TNM. **

Oh hell no, not even. These are two WAY different 'verses...

[sdp]

Originally Posted by Newton Gimmick

Sorry but you can't lob the TNM and TMNT movies together while saying that the Archie and Toon universes are different.

Casey and April don't exist at ALL in the TNM. That's much different than the movies. April appears in all the movies as a core character and Casey's in 3 out of the 4.

Archie contradicts the OT and is clearly its own continuity but the same can't be said for TNM.

Just because you don't see Casey and April doesn't mean they don't exist. Like mentioned Casey didn't appear in 2 with no explanation or references like he didn't even exisst. Unless it was stated in the show that they've never met a human, in that case then I would definitely place them on their own earth.

Its a lot more inconsistent to place TMNT 2k7 in continuity with the movies.

Oh and TNM retcons the turtles to have a SISTER, that's a pretty big leap.

Not to mention the return of Shredder when he was already killed for good in the movies.

The whole point of the show is that they have a sister they didn't know about. Its no more of a retcon to the movies as it is to the actual show itself. So the show retcons itself on the first episode? And I usually associate retcon when something is actually changed like the death of a superhero. Here nothing is changed, more is just added to the origins we didn't know yet, its not like its making erasing something that happened. If that were the case tons of works of fiction retcon themselves in their first movie/book/show. Since Extra information is later added.

Like I mentioned Shredder was killed for good on the first movie yet he appears in the second. And his first death is a lot harder to swallow than his second death. Its much more likely he survived his second death over the first. Not to mention if you are trying to count TMNT 2k7 in continuity that would mean Shredder would be back again regardless.

TNM is it's own universe.

There is little to nothing that connects it to the movies. Other than being live action and the subway set.

That's like saying the other universes all should be the same because they all live in the sewer and are 2D.

Most people love the first TMNT movie and despise TNM. But thats no reason for them to be separate.

Splinter has his Movie origin, which at the time the 87 cartoon origin was more established. Shredder had been defeated and thought dead, the subway, their personalities are very similar to turtles III. The show was clearly made to be a sequel to the live action movies.

Its not like that at all. Other Universes contradict themselves. Hell if TMNT 2k3 didn't contradict the OT then yeah I'd probably argue it took place in the 87 continuity but it does.

If there is enough evidence I'd categorize it as its own continuity but I only see weak points against it while it has stronger connections.

Originally Posted by Buslady

Oh hell no, not even. These are two WAY different 'verses...

Any reasons why?
Personal preference does not count.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by sdp

Archie contradicts the OT and is clearly its own continuity but the same can't be said for TNM.

No. Exactly the same can be said for TNM. It's the exact same f*cking thing. They start off with similar elements but quickly establish their own continuity.

Just because you don't see Casey and April doesn't mean they don't exist.

There was absolutely zero mention of them. And, if I remember correctly, there were plans to actually introduce new versions of the characters in season two, before the show was cancelled.

Unless it was stated in the show that they've never met a human, in that case then I would definitely place them on their own earth.

I might be wrong, but something like this might have been mentioned in the episode where the Turtles take in Splinter's blind human friend.

Its a lot more inconsistent to place TMNT 2k7 in continuity with the movies.

What? No. You seem to be grouping by style and tone, when you should be grouping by facts. TMNT has an incredibly different feel to the first three movies, but all the establishing facts in it line up well with them. On the other hand, TNM has a similar style to the movies, but every other aspect of it contradicts them.

The whole point of the show is that they have a sister they didn't know about.

No, it's not a retcon, if it took place after the third movie. But the April and Shredder things indicate that this is not the case.

Like I mentioned Shredder was killed for good on the first movie yet he appears in the second. And his first death is a lot harder to swallow than his second death. Its much more likely he survived his second death over the first.

Except that he was a hideously disfigured mutant at the time of his second death? And that TNM made no attempts to explain that away?

Not to mention if you are trying to count TMNT 2k7 in continuity that would mean Shredder would be back again regardless.

...He's dead in that movie. The narrator says so. Leo says so. And even if there were plans to bring him back down the line, they'd at least have an explanation, which TNM made no attempt to do. (Because it's a different continuity.)

Most people love the first TMNT movie and despise TNM. But thats no reason for them to be separate.

Stop. I don't care about how good the things are. If a sh*tty TMNT coloring book has indisputable and important ties to the movie contuinity, I'll consider it part of that universe.

Believe me, if any evidence pointed to TNM being a continuation of the movies, I'd be the first to tell you. It doesn't. It contradicts them at every turn past the origin story.

Splinter has his Movie origin, which at the time the 87 cartoon origin was more established. Shredder had been defeated and thought dead, the subway, their personalities are very similar to turtles III. The show was clearly made to be a sequel to the live action movies.

This is exactly what I meant when I said "TNM is to the movies as Adventures is to the 1987 toon."

They share the same background elements. But beyond that they're established as their own, very different continuities.

Its not like that at all. Other Universes contradict themselves. Hell if TMNT 2k3 didn't contradict the OT then yeah I'd probably argue it took place in the 87 continuity but it does.

Just like TNM contradicts the movies?

If there is enough evidence I'd categorize it as its own continuity but I only see weak points against it while it has stronger connections.

Ok, wait. Let me get this straight. According to you...

Reasons why TNM connects to the movies:

• They live in a subway
• Splinter's missing an ear
• Their personalities are passingly similar

Reasons why TNM cannot connect to the movies:

• Ignores the deaths and existence of major movie characters and events

That's like me saying that Batman: TAS shares continuity with the Tim Burton films because the music is the same and both Batmans wear black capes. Nevermind the fact that Joker is killed in the movie, because the music and cape totally prove it. Besides, the Joker could've, like, totally come back. They just didn't want to explain it because it's obviously the same universe.

What you're getting at is that TNM is inspired by the movies. I won't argue with that. It shares its background. But as far as strong evidence goes, TNM's direct contradiction of actual events in the movies removes it from that universe. Think of it as a branching sort of thing. Hamato Yoshi is killed by Shredder, Splinter attacks and has his ear sliced off. From there, events can continue on to become either TNM, or the movies.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Reasons why TNM cannot connect to the movies:

• Ignores the deaths and existence of major movie characters and events

I disagree with your analogies. And your reasons why it can't connect to the movies doesn't seem really strong. But I can't judge yet until I watch the show...which I hope to do soon. I'm tired of waiting for Disney to release it so I'll just watch the UK version instead. Maybe after I watch it I'll realize that it really isn't in continuity. Its just from the little bit I've watched and the connections and contradictions i've read it has it mostly appears to definitely be in continuity with the movies. But I'll refrain from debating until I watch it.

Originally Posted by Cipher

What? No. You seem to be grouping by style and tone, when you should be grouping by facts. TMNT has an incredibly different feel to the first three movies, but all the establishing facts in it line up well with them. On the other hand, TNM has a similar style to the movies, but every other aspect of it contradicts them.

However THIS I can debate. The only evidence that TMNT is in continuity with the movies (besides being a movie) is the time scepter from the third movie. However various TMNT continuities have shared items no reason to think that these turtles also had an adventure with the time scepter.

These turtles act NOTHING like any of the three movies they are totally different characters. April is not a reporter. Also based on the novelization/prequel books/prequel comic books and even the movie itself you can see this continuity is a lot different. They've fought the triceratons, Silver Sentry exists in this continuity, Karai etc. This universe is too sci-fi/comic booky unlike the more "realistic" version of the first three movies, even when comparing to the time travel of the third movie.

Leading up to the movie I really wanted it to be part of continuity but after watching it I realized it made no sense to do it. Shredder being defeated is hardly a connection, he's been defeated in all TMNT media.