Favorite Shredder origin story (various versions)

[quinnmjohnson]

Just wanted to get people's opinions on which of all the different versions from the various TMNT universes (Mirage comics, 1987 cartoon, 2003 cartoon, movies, etc.) is the best Shredder origin story.

I think that's one of the cool things about the TMNT property: the different realities can all take things their own way, explore all the different possibilities within their own boundaries so to speak, and they can all be cool.

While I am a huge fan of the Mirage comics and having Shredder just be a normal human, albeit a scary, total butt-kicking ninja warlord, I am quite impressed with the 2003 cartoon's version. To make him an Utrom ties in with the whole Turtles origin mythology in a very cool way, plus the fact that he has been around for 1000 earth years amassing his evil forces is awesome. Add to that that he is also an intergalactic criminal responsible for the deaths of millions, and that his robotic exoskeleton can take many scary and powerful forms, and you've got yourself one awesome villain. What do you guys think?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I'm with you on that one. While the mirage orgin was good, we got little insight on the character. I thought him being an Utrom was great and unexpected. And it made for some good stories.

[DrSpengler]

Yeah, the 2k3 series is the deepest characterization Shredder ever received and I thought the Utrom thing was a cool idea. I haven't even seen the Lost Season yet, and that supposedly dips heavily into the Shredder's history.

Mirage Shredder made, like, 6 total appearance and that's counting clones. He was cool, but a rarely seen, paper-thin character.

Old Toon Shredder was a great comedy relief villain, I loved him as a kid and love him now, but no way does he have the depth of the 2k3 version.

Archie was a bit better, though, and probably 2k3 Shredder's closest rival.

[Spitfire]

I liked the "True" Shredder the best. The one from TLS that the Utrom Shredder stole his name from. That guy was a bad ass.

[Quiet_Guy]

I love the Ultrom version the best. From his cool armor to his ties with the Ultrom. I think the 2003 toon did a great job of tying the Turtles, Shredder, Splinter and Ultrom together very well.

[phillytmnt]

I think my favorite version is the 2k3 utrom shredder. I like the original mirage shredder a lot too. But to me, wut makes the utrom shredder better is the fact that he has an even more badass feel to him and the fact he been around for 1000 years.BY being around that long, he is the toughest version of the shredder since he been training in the martial arts for many centuries and also been gathering a powerful army for that length of time. By having a character that old, it can always lead to really interesting stories.

The tengu shredder is cool but i never been a huge fan of a lot of magic. I think the utrom shredder is more interesting since he is a crime lord instead of an all powerful demon who been imprisoned most of the time anyway.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I love the Ultrom version the best. From his cool armor to his ties with the Ultrom. I think the 2003 toon did a great job of tying the Turtles, Shredder, Splinter and Ultrom together very well.

Don't forget Leatherhead. :lol:

[Quiet_Guy]

Don't forget Leatherhead. :lol:

Very true!

[Ra]

Alrighty then *rubs hands together*

Mirage Shredder: Definately my favorite version, hands down. He was human, yet he was so skilled in fighting for someone his age. Also how he rose up to take control of the Foot Clan was very impressive as well.

Old Toon Shred-Head: He was okay. I don't really have an opinion on this one since I haven't watched many episodes with him in it, but I liked him. He was still a skilled fighter and he and Krang played nicely off each other. And it was always good to hear "Tonight I will dine on turtle-soup!".

Movie Shredder: Pretty much like Mirage Shredder, only you could really see this guy kick the turtles around like they were nothing. It took all four turtles and Splinter to knock this guy down, and even then he had to be finished off by a garbage truck. Yet he still managed to survive, which you have to admire.

2k3 Shredder: I'm not a big fan of Shredder being an Utrom, but I still like him. And you have to admit it - it was a VERY cool twist on an old tale. It also gave a logical explaination to why he kept on coming back. That exosuit must be made of really strong metal to protect his fleshy body. It was also a good way of Shredder setting his sights on different goals.

So, overall if I had to rate the four, I would go --

1) Mirage
2) Movie
3) Old Toon and 2k3 Toon tied.

[Jester]

I'm not sure, the major origin difference between all other Shredder's and 2k3's multiple Shred-Heads is that in 2k3 he's either a Utrom or a demon. There is a short time where Shredder is just a human ninja master, but it's hardly worth mentioning.

I do like the relationship the Old Toon has since they so drastically change Splinter's origin. Making Splinter Yoshi, Saki's old teacher, helped, in my opinion, make the animosity between Shredder and Splinter make more sense. I know that in the other TMNT "mythos" Shredder killed Splinter's master Yoshi and that makes for Splinter's hatred of Shredder, but in rewatching the OT for the reference guide, I've noticed just how rich the relationship between Shredder and Splinter plays. Heck, it may trump the OT's portrayal of the relationship between the Turtles themselves and Splinter.

So to answer your question, I think I'd have to give the nod to Human Saki, and specifically the Saki who was Yoshi's student, not rival, and who to take out his old senci tried to kill him with a dose of radioactive mutagen.

[quinnmjohnson]

Just had another thought. Another thing that made the Mirage Shredder cool was that after he had led the New York Foot Clan for a while, he slowly cut off ties with the main Japanese leadership, becoming something of a loose cannon. You get the impression that he was out of the control of the main Foot leaders, doing his own thing without their influence or permission, and that they were too scared to do anything about it. That's just cool. ("City at War" storyline.)

[Jo Dawn]

Just wanted to get people's opinions on which of all the different versions from the various TMNT universes (Mirage comics, 1987 cartoon, 2003 cartoon, movies, etc.) is the best Shredder origin story.

I think that's one of the cool things about the TMNT property: the different realities can all take things their own way, explore all the different possibilities within their own boundaries so to speak, and they can all be cool.

While I am a huge fan of the Mirage comics and having Shredder just be a normal human, albeit a scary, total butt-kicking ninja warlord, I am quite impressed with the 2003 cartoon's version. To make him an Utrom ties in with the whole Turtles origin mythology in a very cool way, plus the fact that he has been around for 1000 earth years amassing his evil forces is awesome. Add to that that he is also an intergalactic criminal responsible for the deaths of millions, and that his robotic exoskeleton can take many scary and powerful forms, and you've got yourself one awesome villain. What do you guys think?

Completely agree with you.

And I really, really didn't like the OT Shredder (sorry!!). I have no patience for stupidity. And, no. When I was younger it wasn't funny. It was never funny. It was annoying.

I totally prefer the intelligent, skilled version.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Just had another thought. Another thing that made the Mirage Shredder cool was that after he had led the New York Foot Clan for a while, he slowly cut off ties with the main Japanese leadership, becoming something of a loose cannon. You get the impression that he was out of the control of the main Foot leaders, doing his own thing without their influence or permission, and that they were too scared to do anything about it. That's just cool. ("City at War" storyline.)

Yeah that was pretty cool. Shredder is badass villian.

[Kendamu]

Nothing that has come along has topped the movie version for me. It took everything I like about the Shredder and brought it to life for me. That was truly awesome.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The 1987 cartoon.

[AquaParade]

Just had another thought. Another thing that made the Mirage Shredder cool was that after he had led the New York Foot Clan for a while, he slowly cut off ties with the main Japanese leadership, becoming something of a loose cannon. You get the impression that he was out of the control of the main Foot leaders, doing his own thing without their influence or permission, and that they were too scared to do anything about it. That's just cool. ("City at War" storyline.)

Good Point. Shredder going from a deadly leader in an organized ninja clan to basically a Renegade, standalone Ninja master who intimidates even those he used to work amongst or for is a really cool thing.

[shuriken]

I'm gonna have to go with the Movie Shredder to be my top choice. He was skilled cunning and was very intimidating. He also had a presence of..IDK evil. I also really liked his suit/aromor. Less is more, plus maroon is cool.
New toon Shredder is also very cool incarnation. His voice has to be the best Shredder out there. I just wished he would've been human though. But the TRUE Shredder was human so that's cool.
Mirage Shredder was kick-ass but rarely used, but I guess that's what made him even more kick-ass.
Old toon Shredder was ok to me. Though I prefer a villian to strike fear into his enemies' eyes and make his minions cower before him, he suited the toon very well. If the Old toon Shredder was as awesome as the New toon one or the movie one, Bebop and Rocksteady would've only lasted two or threee episodes, and Krang would've been Shredder's B**ch.
Next Mutation Shredder was just bad.

[Mr. Stay Puft]

While I grew up on 1987 TMNT, I still have to say my favorite is 2k3. The True Shredder was a Tengu that laid waste to Japan and had to be defeated by five ninja warriors, and then corrupted their leader, Oroku Saki and became a world class mystic threat that was still nearly unstoppable.

Then there's Ch'rell, who was an intergalactic threat responsible for millions, or maybe billions of deaths throughout the universe.

Haven't read much of Mirage (only what's collected in TPBs 1-4), but he was pretty badass, but he also took a nutshot from Casey, which always makes me laugh.

OT Shredder was basically a joke. While he did take control of the Foot, his main source of power came from his alliance with Krang. Without Krang, he wouldn't have had his nearly limitless supply of Foot Soldiers or Bebop and Rocksteady.

Movie Shredder was cool, but he didn't really add much more to the character, in my opinion.

[Sage Ninja]

I;m going to go with 1987 version of Shredder only because I like the whole personal level they applied with Shredder and Splinter being once student and teacher. It really makes you wonder what happened between them that made them loath each other so much. Was it mearly that Shredder/Saki was just an asshole? Or was he just ambitous? Or did Splinter do something to cause such animosity to breed in Shredder?

This always facinated me when I was a kid and still does now. Shredder held such spite for Splinter for seemingly no reason. Calling him his sworn enemy and always coming at him with such malice. When seemingly (on the serfice) Splinter did very little to provoke such a a strong reaction. There had to be a cause for it? Just wanting to kill some one just because they hold a postion that you want wouldn't warrent that amount of hatred and passion. Shredder's hatred of Splinter seemed totally personal. And some thing that was never really explored to indepth which is a real shame.

So yeah I like old toon Shredder's origin of being a former student of Yoshi that betrayed and framed him.

The new toon Shredder's origins is interesting but I thought the whole "Shredder is a thousand year old utrom" was kinda just used for shock value (although executed well) that I found kind of meh :|, and a bit impersonal.

Not to say that it doesn't make sence in the context of the new toon format I'm just saying I liked the 1987 series take a bit better.

[kerfootw]

Oh thank goodness there are quite a number of members here who appreciate the 2k3 Shredder and understand how good the twist he provides in the show for the Turtles and stuff. I can't tell you how many dumbasses I've had to come across on places such as tv.com, the imdb, all sorts of places like that where they can be so biased and selfish.

[Bad Guys Lover]

I;m going to go with 1987 version of Shredder only because I like the whole personal level they applied with Shredder and Splinter being once student and teacher. It really makes you wonder what happened between them that made them loath each other so much. Was it mearly that Shredder/Saki was just an asshole? Or was he just ambitous? Or did Splinter do something to cause such animosity to breed in Shredder?

This always facinated me when I was a kid and still does now. Shredder held such spite for Splinter for seemingly no reason. Calling him his sworn enemy and always coming at him with such malice. When seemingly (on the serfice) Splinter did very little to provoke such a a strong reaction. There had to be a cause for it? Just wanting to kill some one just because they hold a postion that you want wouldn't warrent that amount of hatred and passion. Shredder's hatred of Splinter seemed totally personal. And some thing that was never really explored to indepth which is a real shame.

So yeah I like old toon Shredder's origin of being a former student of Yoshi that betrayed and framed him.

The new toon Shredder's origins is interesting but I thought the whole "Shredder is a thousand year old utrom" was kinda just used for shock value (although executed well) that I found kind of meh :|, and a bit impersonal.

Not to say that it doesn't make sence in the context of the new toon format I'm just saying I liked the 1987 series take a bit better.

Oh,you really got the point there!
I also like the OT version. And yeah, it`s a real shame they never explained what actually happened between Saki and Yoshi. Um,...maybe Yoshi "stole" Saki`s girlfriend or something? ;) :lol: Stupid, I know, but what else could make Saki hate his master so much?! Any ideas?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Oh thank goodness there are quite a number of members here who appreciate the 2k3 Shredder and understand how good the twist he provides in the show for the Turtles and stuff. I can't tell you how many dumbasses I've had to come across on places such as tv.com, the imdb, all sorts of places like that where they can be so biased and selfish.

Tell me about it, I'm sick of those dumbasses, especially the ones who insult Peter Laird because he doesn't really like the old toon.

[quinnmjohnson]

I agree. I appreciate that everyone has their opinion, but I generally avoid forums on the imdb, etc. because you can only get about three posts in before you get the people who are all "My opinion is right and anything else SUCKS!" Very immature and annoying. Fans are great; whiny fanboys who look for reasons to complain and get offended--BLEH.:dead:

[Sage Ninja]

I don't know where all this indignation about not apprciating the 2k3 series version of Shredder is coming from. I thought we where all just voicing what version we liked, I don't think any one has put done the utrom Shredder in any way except to say that they liked a certain version better for ever reason. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Was it because I said I didn't care for 2k3's version of Shredder that brought this on? Because the protests didn't start till after my post. And just so every one knows it isn't just the old toon fans that get all "my opinion is the right one" like. plenty of 2k3 fans get like that too and they are just as self rightous and biased as the old toons fans. This would really suck if it turned into a vs. thread, it really would.

Oh,you really got the point there!
I also like the OT version. And yeah, it`s a real shame they never explained what actually happened between Saki and Yoshi. Um,...maybe Yoshi "stole" Saki`s girlfriend or something? Stupid, I know, but what else could make Saki hate his master so much?! Any ideas?

I always thought that Yoshi might have done something to deleberatley blow Saki's chances at personal advancement in the foot clans hierarchy to protect his own interests and status. That could explain why Saki choose to shame Yoshi and have him thrown out so he could take his place if that was the case. It would explain why Saki/Shredder jolds such animosity toward Splinter.

In the very first episode Splinter explains that Saki tyed to usurp his leadership. Maybe Saki (given that he was younger than Yoshi) was starting to show signs that he could take over for Yoshi and take his place and Yoshi used his influence as clan leader to keep Saki from doing that. Thus keeping Saki from advancing. If this was done than I imagine that that would piss anyone off and Shredder retailiated. Its any ones guess.

[Jester]

Saki was just ambitious, he thought he should be the master of the Japanese Foot Clan, and Yoshi stood in his way, so he framed him and got him out f the way. I'm sure that when Yoshi went to America, he heard from others within the clan how much better things were under Yoshi, which motivated him to want his rival dead, and not just out of the way.

Thanks for basically taking what I liked about the OT relationship between Splinter and Shredder and making it sound novel, Sage.

[kerfootw]

I agree. I appreciate that everyone has their opinion, but I generally avoid forums on the imdb, etc. because you can only get about three posts in before you get the people who are all "My opinion is right and anything else SUCKS!" Very immature and annoying. Fans are great; whiny fanboys who look for reasons to complain and get offended--BLEH.:dead:

I know! I mean, insulting Peter Laird? WTF?!

[triplexxx]

I never got into the comics, but every version I've seen has it's interesting points:
*1987 cartoon: kinda goofy, yet still power-hungry, good at deception, utterly selfish and destructive, and vengeful.
*2003 cartoon: a ruthless murderer, very vengeful, also extremely selfish and destructive, also power-hungry, and also good at deception.
*Movies: more realistic, more of a down-to-earth criminal, specializes in common theft (personally, I think all crime in the world boils down to common theft in a way; most crime is meant to yield some type of financial gain, I think), yet still selfish and ruthless, and willing to kill himself for the sake of vengance (end of TMNT 2).

I don't know how interesting or sterotypical any of this may seem to anyone else, but I find all these characteristics fitting in a villain, a little goofiness doesn't hurt either.

[Masked Ninja]

I prefer my Shredder human, but I didn't mind his 2k3 incarnation because they made the story fit so well around his Utrom background. As a gimmick it would have been annoying, but the overall storyline couldn't have been the same if he wasn't an Utrom. I've made peace with it.

My favorite Shredder is, I think, the Mirage one. He's bad, he's dangerous, and it only takes two tries to kill him and move on. But his legacy still lives on in the Foot.

The old 'toon Shredder is fun, but I thought he was too silly, whiny, and clumsy for me. Though... "Cowabunga Shredhead" is one of my favorite episodes. Hah. :trazz:

[Sage Ninja]

Saki was just ambitious, he thought he should be the master of the Japanese Foot Clan, and Yoshi stood in his way, so he framed him and got him out f the way. I'm sure that when Yoshi went to America, he heard from others within the clan how much better things were under Yoshi, which motivated him to want his rival dead, and not just out of the way.

hmm, could be but it still seemed more than just mere ambition and jealousy that Shredder had for Splinter. Shredder seemed quite bitter toward Splinter, which I think is odd because you don't see the same amount of bitterness from Splinter. I mean he doesn't like the fact that he was oustred from the foot clan and was turned into a rat but given all of that you would have expected a little more rage from Splinter toward Shredder.

Thanks for basically taking what I liked about the OT relationship between Splinter and Shredder and making it sound novel, Sage.

um, are you complementing me or are you being sarcastic Jester? :-?

[Jester]

Just a little sarcasm...a little.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I really like the Mirage origin best, where he is avenging the death of his brother. I like how much more convoluted it is than the other origins, it comes off as a good parody of comic book villain origins.