Favorite Shredder origin story (various versions)

quinnmjohnson · 02-18-2007, 03:42 PM

Just wanted to get people's opinions on which of all the different versions from the various TMNT universes (Mirage comics, 1987 cartoon, 2003 cartoon, movies, etc.) is the best Shredder origin story.

I think that's one of the cool things about the TMNT property: the different realities can all take things their own way, explore all the different possibilities within their own boundaries so to speak, and they can all be cool.

While I am a huge fan of the Mirage comics and having Shredder just be a normal human, albeit a scary, total butt-kicking ninja warlord, I am quite impressed with the 2003 cartoon's version. To make him an Utrom ties in with the whole Turtles origin mythology in a very cool way, plus the fact that he has been around for 1000 earth years amassing his evil forces is awesome. Add to that that he is also an intergalactic criminal responsible for the deaths of millions, and that his robotic exoskeleton can take many scary and powerful forms, and you've got yourself one awesome villain. What do you guys think?

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 02-18-2007, 04:15 PM

I'm with you on that one. While the mirage orgin was good, we got little insight on the character. I thought him being an Utrom was great and unexpected. And it made for some good stories.

*DrSpengler* · 02-18-2007, 04:24 PM

Yeah, the 2k3 series is the deepest characterization Shredder ever received and I thought the Utrom thing was a cool idea. I haven't even seen the Lost Season yet, and that supposedly dips heavily into the Shredder's history.

Mirage Shredder made, like, 6 total appearance and that's counting clones. He was cool, but a rarely seen, paper-thin character.

Old Toon Shredder was a great comedy relief villain, I loved him as a kid and love him now, but no way does he have the depth of the 2k3 version.

Archie was a bit better, though, and probably 2k3 Shredder's closest rival.

*Spitfire* · 02-18-2007, 04:38 PM

I liked the "True" Shredder the best. The one from TLS that the Utrom Shredder stole his name from. That guy was a bad ass.

Quiet_Guy · 02-18-2007, 05:45 PM

I love the Ultrom version the best. From his cool armor to his ties with the Ultrom. I think the 2003 toon did a great job of tying the Turtles, Shredder, Splinter and Ultrom together very well.

phillytmnt · 02-18-2007, 05:49 PM

I think my favorite version is the 2k3 utrom shredder. I like the original mirage shredder a lot too. But to me, wut makes the utrom shredder better is the fact that he has an even more badass feel to him and the fact he been around for 1000 years.BY being around that long, he is the toughest version of the shredder since he been training in the martial arts for many centuries and also been gathering a powerful army for that length of time. By having a character that old, it can always lead to really interesting stories.

The tengu shredder is cool but i never been a huge fan of a lot of magic. I think the utrom shredder is more interesting since he is a crime lord instead of an all powerful demon who been imprisoned most of the time anyway.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 02-18-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quiet_Guy

I love the Ultrom version the best. From his cool armor to his ties with the Ultrom. I think the 2003 toon did a great job of tying the Turtles, Shredder, Splinter and Ultrom together very well.

Don't forget Leatherhead.

Quiet_Guy · 02-18-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Don't forget Leatherhead.

Very true!

Ra · 02-19-2007, 02:18 AM

Alrighty then *rubs hands together*

Mirage Shredder: Definately my favorite version, hands down. He was human, yet he was so skilled in fighting for someone his age. Also how he rose up to take control of the Foot Clan was very impressive as well.

Old Toon Shred-Head: He was okay. I don't really have an opinion on this one since I haven't watched many episodes with him in it, but I liked him. He was still a skilled fighter and he and Krang played nicely off each other. And it was always good to hear "Tonight I will dine on turtle-soup!".

Movie Shredder: Pretty much like Mirage Shredder, only you could really see this guy kick the turtles around like they were nothing. It took all four turtles and Splinter to knock this guy down, and even then he had to be finished off by a garbage truck. Yet he still managed to survive, which you have to admire.

2k3 Shredder: I'm not a big fan of Shredder being an Utrom, but I still like him. And you have to admit it - it was a VERY cool twist on an old tale. It also gave a logical explaination to why he kept on coming back. That exosuit must be made of really strong metal to protect his fleshy body. It was also a good way of Shredder setting his sights on different goals.

So, overall if I had to rate the four, I would go --

1) Mirage
2) Movie
3) Old Toon and 2k3 Toon tied.

**Jester** · 02-19-2007, 11:03 AM

I'm not sure, the major origin difference between all other Shredder's and 2k3's multiple Shred-Heads is that in 2k3 he's either a Utrom or a demon. There is a short time where Shredder is just a human ninja master, but it's hardly worth mentioning.

I do like the relationship the Old Toon has since they so drastically change Splinter's origin. Making Splinter Yoshi, Saki's old teacher, helped, in my opinion, make the animosity between Shredder and Splinter make more sense. I know that in the other TMNT "mythos" Shredder killed Splinter's master Yoshi and that makes for Splinter's hatred of Shredder, but in rewatching the OT for the reference guide, I've noticed just how rich the relationship between Shredder and Splinter plays. Heck, it may trump the OT's portrayal of the relationship between the Turtles themselves and Splinter.

So to answer your question, I think I'd have to give the nod to Human Saki, and specifically the Saki who was Yoshi's student, not rival, and who to take out his old senci tried to kill him with a dose of radioactive mutagen.

quinnmjohnson · 02-19-2007, 12:19 PM

Just had another thought. Another thing that made the Mirage Shredder cool was that after he had led the New York Foot Clan for a while, he slowly cut off ties with the main Japanese leadership, becoming something of a loose cannon. You get the impression that he was out of the control of the main Foot leaders, doing his own thing without their influence or permission, and that they were too scared to do anything about it. That's just cool. ("City at War" storyline.)

**Jo Dawn** · 02-19-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn Johnson

Just wanted to get people's opinions on which of all the different versions from the various TMNT universes (Mirage comics, 1987 cartoon, 2003 cartoon, movies, etc.) is the best Shredder origin story.

I think that's one of the cool things about the TMNT property: the different realities can all take things their own way, explore all the different possibilities within their own boundaries so to speak, and they can all be cool.

While I am a huge fan of the Mirage comics and having Shredder just be a normal human, albeit a scary, total butt-kicking ninja warlord, I am quite impressed with the 2003 cartoon's version. To make him an Utrom ties in with the whole Turtles origin mythology in a very cool way, plus the fact that he has been around for 1000 earth years amassing his evil forces is awesome. Add to that that he is also an intergalactic criminal responsible for the deaths of millions, and that his robotic exoskeleton can take many scary and powerful forms, and you've got yourself one awesome villain. What do you guys think?

Completely agree with you.

And I really, really didn't like the OT Shredder (sorry!!). I have no patience for stupidity. And, no. When I was younger it wasn't funny. It was never funny. It was annoying.

I totally prefer the intelligent, skilled version.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 02-19-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn Johnson

Just had another thought. Another thing that made the Mirage Shredder cool was that after he had led the New York Foot Clan for a while, he slowly cut off ties with the main Japanese leadership, becoming something of a loose cannon. You get the impression that he was out of the control of the main Foot leaders, doing his own thing without their influence or permission, and that they were too scared to do anything about it. That's just cool. ("City at War" storyline.)

Yeah that was pretty cool. Shredder is badass villian.

*Kendamu* · 02-19-2007, 05:09 PM

Nothing that has come along has topped the movie version for me. It took everything I like about the Shredder and brought it to life for me. That was truly awesome.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 02-20-2007, 12:15 PM

The 1987 cartoon.

~~AquaParade~~ · 02-20-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn Johnson

Just had another thought. Another thing that made the Mirage Shredder cool was that after he had led the New York Foot Clan for a while, he slowly cut off ties with the main Japanese leadership, becoming something of a loose cannon. You get the impression that he was out of the control of the main Foot leaders, doing his own thing without their influence or permission, and that they were too scared to do anything about it. That's just cool. ("City at War" storyline.)

Good Point. Shredder going from a deadly leader in an organized ninja clan to basically a Renegade, standalone Ninja master who intimidates even those he used to work amongst or for is a really cool thing.

*shuriken* · 02-20-2007, 08:23 PM

I'm gonna have to go with the Movie Shredder to be my top choice. He was skilled cunning and was very intimidating. He also had a presence of..IDK evil. I also really liked his suit/aromor. Less is more, plus maroon is cool.
New toon Shredder is also very cool incarnation. His voice has to be the best Shredder out there. I just wished he would've been human though. But the TRUE Shredder was human so that's cool.
Mirage Shredder was kick-ass but rarely used, but I guess that's what made him even more kick-ass.
Old toon Shredder was ok to me. Though I prefer a villian to strike fear into his enemies' eyes and make his minions cower before him, he suited the toon very well. If the Old toon Shredder was as awesome as the New toon one or the movie one, Bebop and Rocksteady would've only lasted two or threee episodes, and Krang would've been Shredder's B**ch.
Next Mutation Shredder was just bad.

Mr. Stay Puft · 02-20-2007, 09:28 PM

While I grew up on 1987 TMNT, I still have to say my favorite is 2k3. The True Shredder was a Tengu that laid waste to Japan and had to be defeated by five ninja warriors, and then corrupted their leader, Oroku Saki and became a world class mystic threat that was still nearly unstoppable.

Then there's Ch'rell, who was an intergalactic threat responsible for millions, or maybe billions of deaths throughout the universe.

Haven't read much of Mirage (only what's collected in TPBs 1-4), but he was pretty badass, but he also took a nutshot from Casey, which always makes me laugh.

OT Shredder was basically a joke. While he did take control of the Foot, his main source of power came from his alliance with Krang. Without Krang, he wouldn't have had his nearly limitless supply of Foot Soldiers or Bebop and Rocksteady.

Movie Shredder was cool, but he didn't really add much more to the character, in my opinion.

*Sage Ninja* · 02-23-2007, 11:23 AM

I;m going to go with 1987 version of Shredder only because I like the whole personal level they applied with Shredder and Splinter being once student and teacher. It really makes you wonder what happened between them that made them loath each other so much. Was it mearly that Shredder/Saki was just an asshole? Or was he just ambitous? Or did Splinter do something to cause such animosity to breed in Shredder?

This always facinated me when I was a kid and still does now. Shredder held such spite for Splinter for seemingly no reason. Calling him his sworn enemy and always coming at him with such malice. When seemingly (on the serfice) Splinter did very little to provoke such a a strong reaction. There had to be a cause for it? Just wanting to kill some one just because they hold a postion that you want wouldn't warrent that amount of hatred and passion. Shredder's hatred of Splinter seemed totally personal. And some thing that was never really explored to indepth which is a real shame.

So yeah I like old toon Shredder's origin of being a former student of Yoshi that betrayed and framed him.

The new toon Shredder's origins is interesting but I thought the whole "Shredder is a thousand year old utrom" was kinda just used for shock value (although executed well) that I found kind of meh

, and a bit impersonal.

Not to say that it doesn't make sence in the context of the new toon format I'm just saying I liked the 1987 series take a bit better.

kerfootw · 02-24-2007, 12:28 PM

Oh thank goodness there are quite a number of members here who appreciate the 2k3 Shredder and understand how good the twist he provides in the show for the Turtles and stuff. I can't tell you how many dumbasses I've had to come across on places such as tv.com, the imdb, all sorts of places like that where they can be so biased and selfish.

02-18-2007, 03:42 PM	#1
quinnmjohnson Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 42	Favorite Shredder origin story (various versions) Just wanted to get people's opinions on which of all the different versions from the various TMNT universes (Mirage comics, 1987 cartoon, 2003 cartoon, movies, etc.) is the best Shredder origin story. I think that's one of the cool things about the TMNT property: the different realities can all take things their own way, explore all the different possibilities within their own boundaries so to speak, and they can all be cool. While I am a huge fan of the Mirage comics and having Shredder just be a normal human, albeit a scary, total butt-kicking ninja warlord, I am quite impressed with the 2003 cartoon's version. To make him an Utrom ties in with the whole Turtles origin mythology in a very cool way, plus the fact that he has been around for 1000 earth years amassing his evil forces is awesome. Add to that that he is also an intergalactic criminal responsible for the deaths of millions, and that his robotic exoskeleton can take many scary and powerful forms, and you've got yourself one awesome villain. What do you guys think? __________________ Elders of the RuneStone http://RuneStoneComic.com/ Movie Trailer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72EPo9rq8vY

02-18-2007, 04:38 PM	#4
Spitfire Writer • Director Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,035	I liked the "True" Shredder the best. The one from TLS that the Utrom Shredder stole his name from. That guy was a bad ass. __________________ Check out my online portfolio http://www.christopherpelletier.com/

02-19-2007, 02:18 AM	#9
Ra It's my desire? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: In your pants. Posts: 4,441	Alrighty then rubs hands together Mirage Shredder: Definately my favorite version, hands down. He was human, yet he was so skilled in fighting for someone his age. Also how he rose up to take control of the Foot Clan was very impressive as well. Old Toon Shred-Head: He was okay. I don't really have an opinion on this one since I haven't watched many episodes with him in it, but I liked him. He was still a skilled fighter and he and Krang played nicely off each other. And it was always good to hear "Tonight I will dine on turtle-soup!". Movie Shredder: Pretty much like Mirage Shredder, only you could really see this guy kick the turtles around like they were nothing. It took all four turtles and Splinter to knock this guy down, and even then he had to be finished off by a garbage truck. Yet he still managed to survive, which you have to admire. 2k3 Shredder: I'm not a big fan of Shredder being an Utrom, but I still like him. And you have to admit it - it was a VERY cool twist on an old tale. It also gave a logical explaination to why he kept on coming back. That exosuit must be made of really strong metal to protect his fleshy body. It was also a good way of Shredder setting his sights on different goals. So, overall if I had to rate the four, I would go -- 1) Mirage 2) Movie 3) Old Toon and 2k3 Toon tied. __________________ "So. The whole lot of you against little old me? How retarded."

02-19-2007, 11:03 AM	#10
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,293	I'm not sure, the major origin difference between all other Shredder's and 2k3's multiple Shred-Heads is that in 2k3 he's either a Utrom or a demon. There is a short time where Shredder is just a human ninja master, but it's hardly worth mentioning. I do like the relationship the Old Toon has since they so drastically change Splinter's origin. Making Splinter Yoshi, Saki's old teacher, helped, in my opinion, make the animosity between Shredder and Splinter make more sense. I know that in the other TMNT "mythos" Shredder killed Splinter's master Yoshi and that makes for Splinter's hatred of Shredder, but in rewatching the OT for the reference guide, I've noticed just how rich the relationship between Shredder and Splinter plays. Heck, it may trump the OT's portrayal of the relationship between the Turtles themselves and Splinter. So to answer your question, I think I'd have to give the nod to Human Saki, and specifically the Saki who was Yoshi's student, not rival, and who to take out his old senci tried to kill him with a dose of radioactive mutagen. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

02-19-2007, 12:19 PM	#11
quinnmjohnson Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 42	Just had another thought. Another thing that made the Mirage Shredder cool was that after he had led the New York Foot Clan for a while, he slowly cut off ties with the main Japanese leadership, becoming something of a loose cannon. You get the impression that he was out of the control of the main Foot leaders, doing his own thing without their influence or permission, and that they were too scared to do anything about it. That's just cool. ("City at War" storyline.) __________________ Elders of the RuneStone http://RuneStoneComic.com/ Movie Trailer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72EPo9rq8vY

02-18-2007, 04:15 PM	#2
~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Seventh Layer of Hell Posts: 1,929	I'm with you on that one. While the mirage orgin was good, we got little insight on the character. I thought him being an Utrom was great and unexpected. And it made for some good stories.

02-18-2007, 04:24 PM	#3
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Yeah, the 2k3 series is the deepest characterization Shredder ever received and I thought the Utrom thing was a cool idea. I haven't even seen the Lost Season yet, and that supposedly dips heavily into the Shredder's history. Mirage Shredder made, like, 6 total appearance and that's counting clones. He was cool, but a rarely seen, paper-thin character. Old Toon Shredder was a great comedy relief villain, I loved him as a kid and love him now, but no way does he have the depth of the 2k3 version. Archie was a bit better, though, and probably 2k3 Shredder's closest rival.

02-18-2007, 05:45 PM	#5
Quiet_Guy Foot Soldier Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 166	I love the Ultrom version the best. From his cool armor to his ties with the Ultrom. I think the 2003 toon did a great job of tying the Turtles, Shredder, Splinter and Ultrom together very well.

02-18-2007, 05:49 PM	#6
phillytmnt Thug Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 79	I think my favorite version is the 2k3 utrom shredder. I like the original mirage shredder a lot too. But to me, wut makes the utrom shredder better is the fact that he has an even more badass feel to him and the fact he been around for 1000 years.BY being around that long, he is the toughest version of the shredder since he been training in the martial arts for many centuries and also been gathering a powerful army for that length of time. By having a character that old, it can always lead to really interesting stories. The tengu shredder is cool but i never been a huge fan of a lot of magic. I think the utrom shredder is more interesting since he is a crime lord instead of an all powerful demon who been imprisoned most of the time anyway.

02-19-2007, 05:09 PM	#14
Kendamu Sewerhead Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,890	Nothing that has come along has topped the movie version for me. It took everything I like about the Shredder and brought it to life for me. That was truly awesome.

02-20-2007, 12:15 PM	#15
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,478	1987 cartoon The 1987 cartoon.

02-20-2007, 08:23 PM	#17
shuriken Second City Shinobi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chi-town Posts: 4,182	I'm gonna have to go with the Movie Shredder to be my top choice. He was skilled cunning and was very intimidating. He also had a presence of..IDK evil. I also really liked his suit/aromor. Less is more, plus maroon is cool. New toon Shredder is also very cool incarnation. His voice has to be the best Shredder out there. I just wished he would've been human though. But the TRUE Shredder was human so that's cool. Mirage Shredder was kick-ass but rarely used, but I guess that's what made him even more kick-ass. Old toon Shredder was ok to me. Though I prefer a villian to strike fear into his enemies' eyes and make his minions cower before him, he suited the toon very well. If the Old toon Shredder was as awesome as the New toon one or the movie one, Bebop and Rocksteady would've only lasted two or threee episodes, and Krang would've been Shredder's B**ch. Next Mutation Shredder was just bad. __________________ Some things are better left unsaid. This isn't one of them

02-20-2007, 09:28 PM	#18
Mr. Stay Puft Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NH Posts: 580	While I grew up on 1987 TMNT, I still have to say my favorite is 2k3. The True Shredder was a Tengu that laid waste to Japan and had to be defeated by five ninja warriors, and then corrupted their leader, Oroku Saki and became a world class mystic threat that was still nearly unstoppable. Then there's Ch'rell, who was an intergalactic threat responsible for millions, or maybe billions of deaths throughout the universe. Haven't read much of Mirage (only what's collected in TPBs 1-4), but he was pretty badass, but he also took a nutshot from Casey, which always makes me laugh. OT Shredder was basically a joke. While he did take control of the Foot, his main source of power came from his alliance with Krang. Without Krang, he wouldn't have had his nearly limitless supply of Foot Soldiers or Bebop and Rocksteady. Movie Shredder was cool, but he didn't really add much more to the character, in my opinion. __________________ And there came a day. A day unlike any other, when Earth’s mightiest heroes found themselves united against a common threat, to fight the foes no single superhero could withstand. On that day, the Avengers were born. R.I.P Chi Cheng and Jeff Hanneman

02-23-2007, 11:23 AM	#19
Sage Ninja Band of the Hawk Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA Posts: 3,924	I;m going to go with 1987 version of Shredder only because I like the whole personal level they applied with Shredder and Splinter being once student and teacher. It really makes you wonder what happened between them that made them loath each other so much. Was it mearly that Shredder/Saki was just an asshole? Or was he just ambitous? Or did Splinter do something to cause such animosity to breed in Shredder? This always facinated me when I was a kid and still does now. Shredder held such spite for Splinter for seemingly no reason. Calling him his sworn enemy and always coming at him with such malice. When seemingly (on the serfice) Splinter did very little to provoke such a a strong reaction. There had to be a cause for it? Just wanting to kill some one just because they hold a postion that you want wouldn't warrent that amount of hatred and passion. Shredder's hatred of Splinter seemed totally personal. And some thing that was never really explored to indepth which is a real shame. So yeah I like old toon Shredder's origin of being a former student of Yoshi that betrayed and framed him. The new toon Shredder's origins is interesting but I thought the whole "Shredder is a thousand year old utrom" was kinda just used for shock value (although executed well) that I found kind of meh , and a bit impersonal. Not to say that it doesn't make sence in the context of the new toon format I'm just saying I liked the 1987 series take a bit better. __________________ Cassandra: You won't fight me, but will you fight--for him! Cassandra's Revenge ~Tangled the Series ________________________________ http://frankviola.org/2012/01/30/godsviewofawoman/ _______________________________ http://nox-artemis.tumblr.com/post/4...k-and-feminism

02-24-2007, 12:28 PM	#20
kerfootw Hench Mutant Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 405	Oh thank goodness there are quite a number of members here who appreciate the 2k3 Shredder and understand how good the twist he provides in the show for the Turtles and stuff. I can't tell you how many dumbasses I've had to come across on places such as tv.com, the imdb, all sorts of places like that where they can be so biased and selfish.