Why are other cartoons set in the future better than FF?

[The Master Meglomaniac]

It seems the 2003 tMNT cartoon jumped the shark with the FF episodes, but I wonder why that is. Other cartoons like Phamton 2040 or Batman Beyond, were set in the future and they were still good, why not FF?

[kerfootw]

Well look at them again and maybe you'll see.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Well look at them again and maybe you'll see.

Well the clear answer is the childish writing and the cliched characters, but why is it the TMNT get dumbed down when the concept is introduced in the future timeline, but other heroes like Batman do not.

[Jester]

The reason Batman: Beyond works as a futurized version of Batman:TAS is because the tone isn't as drastically different. Yes Batman: Beyond was a pit more bright than TAS but not as severely drastic as TMNT:>>

[ZariusTwo]

Because 4Kids presently are more case sensetive than WB, who allowed Timm and his collaberators free reign with their sophisticated storylines and characters. The same applies to 2040, which had well known Aeon Flux creator Peter Chung handling it.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

The reason Batman: Beyond works as a futurized version of Batman:TAS is because the tone isn't as drastically different. Yes Batman: Beyond was a pit more bright than TAS but not as severely drastic as TMNT:>>

That's true, I think FF would have been cool if it kept the dark tone of the previous seasons, just set in the future. Maybe something a little more cyber punk.

[ToTheNines]

It's because FF takes the TMNT totally out of their element. No more hiding from humans, no more jumping down manholes, splinter is a minor character, Casey and April are gone, no Foot Clan.... there's more, but thinking about all these f-ups makes me sick

[Spitfire]

Okay I don't know what future shows you watched but only Batman Beyond was good in my opinion. Take a second look at Spider-man Unlimited and you'll see why.

On that note Beyond went downhill. They did to many high school stories and the series got dull after the first season. While season 2 and 3 had good episodes those seasons as a whole didn't match the quality of season 1.

Also it ran off the steam of Batman TAS, and since Gotham Knights was such a piece of **** Beyond really stood out.

And again you all know FF was supposed to happen. Watch the episodes again. You will see they were written to be dark. But the animation style and down toning hold it back.

[ZariusTwo]

Okay I don't know what future shows you watched but only Batman Beyond was good in my opinion. Take a second look at Spider-man Unlimited and you'll see why.

On that note Beyond went downhill. They did to many high school stories and the series got dull after the first season. While season 2 and 3 had good episodes those seasons as a whole didn't match the quality of season 1.

Amen. When most fans talk about Beyond, they remember the entire first season, "The Call", ROTJ ,and "Epilouge", that's pretty much it. and "Out of the Past" was as appropriate a series finale as anything, but they HAD to air "Unmasked" in it's place. Idiots

[Spitfire]

Amen. When most fans talk about Beyond, they remember the entire first season, "The Call", ROTJ ,and "Epilouge", that's pretty much it. and "Out of the Past" was as appropriate a series finale as anything, but they HAD to air "Unmasked" in it's place. Idiots

On the season 3 DVD they actually stated that Unmasked was just an episode that WB never aired because they canceled the show before they could. So later Cartoon Network aired it. It was never intended to be a series finial.

They also said they never felt like concluding any of their shows and they thought it worked better to just finish the series with another episode. They said they would never work on it again but would love to see someone else work with the mythology they set up.

But yeah, season 2 had it's moments as well but it seemed to focused on the same villains and episodes like "Terry's Friend Dates A Robot" don't help it much either.

[Jester]

I agree, even Timm in the "commentary" on Batman: Beyond vol 3 says that the "series finale" was lack luster and kinda fooled a lot of fans when it aired on CN. (doh! Sorry Spitz...posted at the same time...:P)

I kinda wish that there'd be more "Direct to DVD" movies (at least in the quality of Return of the Joke, or mask of the Phantasm.) The characters really lend themselves to 90 min animated featyures well.

[Spitfire]

They said when they do a Batman show they made sure the voice actors were acting like it was live action not just a cartoon. That's where the quality really comes in.

Cool little side note, the Batman Beyond season 3 set has a trailer for the TMNT movie on it. But I guess being distributed by Warner brothers that's not to out of the ordinary.

[Jester]

Yeah, what's weird about that trailer, it's the 3/30/07 trailer....:P

[Spitfire]

Yeah, what's weird about that trailer, it's the 3/30/07 trailer....:P

Yeah I was expecting one of the newer trailers. I turned it off after I saw it was the first one we got.

While on a Batman note, am I alone in thinking Gotham Nights was horrible? It has some good episodes but it felt wayyyyy to kiddy. And I remember them commenting on making it that way on purpose because they wanted to lighten the tone after TAS.

[Jester]

I like the stories, the change in art direction kills me. Catwoman look to...blah. The only character that does good in the re-fit is Scarecrow. My pal Bob, who's blind said it best when he said, "I'm kind of glad I can't see the animation change, cause it's all Batman to me."

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Okay I don't know what future shows you watched but only Batman Beyond was good in my opinion. Take a second look at Spider-man Unlimited and you'll see why.

On that note Beyond went downhill. They did to many high school stories and the series got dull after the first season. While season 2 and 3 had good episodes those seasons as a whole didn't match the quality of season 1.

Also it ran off the steam of Batman TAS, and since Gotham Knights was such a piece of **** Beyond really stood out.

And again you all know FF was supposed to happen. Watch the episodes again. You will see they were written to be dark. But the animation style and down toning hold it back.


I guess you never saw Phantom 2040 then, eh? Besides Spider-Man Unlimited wasn't set in the future, it was set on an alternate Earth. :)

[VaughnMichael]

all I'm gonna say in reply to all of this when asking why are other future shows better than fast forward?
You have to ask yourself why do kids like Apple Jacks?:lol:

[Spitfire]

I guess you never saw Phantom 2040 then, eh? Besides Spider-Man Unlimited wasn't set in the future, it was set on an alternate Earth. :)

A futuristic earth in which Spider-man has a futuristic outfit with cloaking devices on it and other stuff. The fact that it was on another Earth made it even lamer. It jumped on trend just like all those other shows.

No I never saw Phantom 2040, I glanced over it at work. Being int he anime section I dismissed it instantly. Also images of the terrible live action Phantom movie I saw when I was a kid stuck in my head.

[creativerealms82]

Because 4Kids presently are more case sensetive than WB, who allowed Timm and his collaberators free reign with their sophisticated storylines and characters. The same applies to 2040, which had well known Aeon Flux creator Peter Chung handling it.

He asked why Phantom 2040 was good not why it should have sucked. Being handled by the utter waste of human existance that is Petter Chung is more then enough reason why 2040 should have sucked eggs.

anyway Phantom did not have a great show to live up to Thats Fast Forward's problem, it's a decent show in the shadows of four and a half seasons of great show. Fast Forward is like getting Prime Rib year after year and then heing handed a hamberger. It's still tastey and fills you up but not what you wanted after all that much better stuff you had.

Sure people won't agree with me but that's what I believe Fast Forward is not that bad we are just use to better.

[VaughnMichael]

Fast Forward is like getting Prime Rib year after year and then heing handed a hamberger. It's still tastey and fills you up but not what you wanted after all that much better stuff you had.
ahahahahhah best metaphor ever!:lol:

[The Master Meglomaniac]

A futuristic earth in which Spider-man has a futuristic outfit with cloaking devices on it and other stuff. The fact that it was on another Earth made it even lamer. It jumped on trend just like all those other shows.

No I never saw Phantom 2040, I glanced over it at work. Being int he anime section I dismissed it instantly. Also images of the terrible live action Phantom movie I saw when I was a kid stuck in my head.

I was joking around, but from a technical stand point, Spider-man unlimited was not set in the future, but it was a Batman Beyond ripoff and it did suck.

It is too bad you missed Phantom 2040, it was a good show. Anyway the point is that there have good shows set in the future, it is a shame FF couldn't measure up.

[ZariusTwo]

Batman Beyond owes a lot to Spider-Man 2099 actually.

[Spawn Guy]

Wasn't Spider-Man Unlimited going to be Spider-Man 2099 until Columbia got the movie rights?

[ZariusTwo]

Wasn't Spider-Man Unlimited going to be Spider-Man 2099 until Columbia got the movie rights?

Yeah. 2099 did'nt depend too much on the older mythology though

[Time Mistress]

Batman Beyond owes a lot to Phantom 2040 as well I think. Never got to see much Spidey Unlimited, but I love Beyond and 2040.

The great things about Phantom 2040:

Judith and Garfield Reeve-Stevens as the main writing staff. As Star Trek novelists they knew how to set up a cool future world, not to mention some great in-jokes. Dixon Hill and Bruce Wayne are mentioned in Kit's Fictional Detectives of the 20th Century college class.

The show was one of the first American cartoons that dared to have ongoing story arcs. It promoted environmental messages, and could be very philosophical at times. It took the aproach of a hardcore sci-fi show that just happened to be told in animation rather than what was expected from a cartoon of the time.

I can't comment on 2040's second season since it aired in syndication and got dropped from my local channel. But season one is great stuff. Not to mention, 2040 was my first big exposure to the Phantom who is a really awesome superhero period. I really wish 2040 would come out on DVD.
(There is a "movie" version of the first four eps available, but it's chopped up some.)

"There's an old jungle saying - The bigger they are..."
"That is not an old jungle saying."
"This isn't the old jungle, Guran, and I'm not the old Phantom."

[Spawn Guy]

Batman Beyond owes a lot to Phantom 2040 as well I think. Never got to see much Spidey Unlimited, but I love Beyond and 2040.

Apart from some better animaated acrobatics, web effects and the best voice acting for the title character, you didn't miss much.

Although I will admit that while the Unlimited suit looked stupid and was just lame overall, it made sense as an anti symbiote weapon. It just wasn't a spidey costume.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

I think the future in "Same As It Never Was" was a million times more interesting than anything in FF.

[kerfootw]

Indeed. But I just found a problem in SAINW: What about Bishop and the rest of Area 51?

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Indeed. But I just found a problem in SAINW: What about Bishop and the rest of Area 51?

They were likely defeated and killed by Shredder's forces, that is not unbelievable.

[Jamboree]

I hope this hasn't been answered in another topic, but is FF canon?
and to stay on topic, I think whomever said it's alittle out of the turtles element is right on. It's not as stealthy and ninjaesque, but more adventurous and experimental.

[kerfootw]

They were likely defeated and killed by Shredder's forces, that is not unbelievable.

Boooorrrring!

[VaughnMichael]

I hope this hasn't been answered in another topic, but is FF canon?
and to stay on topic, I think whomever said it's alittle out of the turtles element is right on. It's not as stealthy and ninjaesque, but more adventurous and experimental.
well it was suposed to be but I think it's pretty much gone off track.:ohwell: