What is it about the TMNT that makes them so unappealing?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

For too long now this question has been floating around my mind, and I really need to know. Why is it that when it comes to characters like Spider-Man and Transformers, people can say things like "Oh these guys are so cool" or "I can relate to them so much". But when it comes to the turtles, the best people can say is, "I remember them from that 80's cartoon".

The Turtles are treated as nothing but kid stuff, mainly because of the concept. But I never understood that, the concept is no goofier than Spidey's or Hulk's. The point is to look past the silly orgin, and enjoy the stories.

Another thing I've found is, people say they would like to see a more grown up TMNT, but when the TMNT try to deliver on that, all of a sudden, all of a sudden you got a bunch of people saying it's raping they're childhood. Alot of times, people don't really know what they want with TMNT. Some want it all goofy, some want it completley hardcore, and anything less is unacceptable.

I thought it could be that maybe the general public don't think the characters are relatable. That they're not socially relevant. But even that doesn't make sense. If people would just let down they're gaurds they would see that they can relate to at least one of the Turtles.

If you're somewhat of an older brother figure, someone that has to be resposnsible for others. Or just someone that strives hard for perfection, you can relate to Leonardo.

If you're generally easy going, you like to have fun, you avoid conflict, rarely get angry, and you have a strong creative side, you can relate to Michelangelo.

If you have a curios mind, or if someone who tends to get really wrapped up in your work, so much so that you sometimes inadvertantly alienate people close to you, you can relate to Donatello.

If you're the kind of peorson that tends to take other people's problems on your shoulder, and alot of times get frustrated that you can't do much to help. Or if you're a loner, who solves they're own problems alone and doesn't like asking for help, you can relate to Raphael.

But still, there's no law that states you have to relate to a character to like them. How many of us can honestly say we can relate to Batman, yet we still like the character.

People will say they have such fond memories of the Turtles, but when it came to TMNT, no one would even go see it They say that this movie is tainting they're childhoods, but how exactly? This movie had nothing to do the orginal cartoon. The people who loved the 60's Batman series didn't complain when Tim Burton made Batman back in 1990. Or maybe they did, I don't know. Point is, people looked past the differences and accepted the movie for what it was. Why couldn't people do the same with TMNT? All the idiots that said it wasn't goofy enough, are being totaly unfair. Why didn't anyone say the same about Superman, or Hellboy, or the Transformers.

If TMNT had gotten a PG-13 ratting, would that have changed people's tunes. I think it would, seeing as how the PG ratting Warner Bros forced upon the movie didn't help it one bit.

I'm posing this question to TMNT fans and non TMNT fans alike. I need to know, what is it that makes the TMNT so different that it can't be accepted like Spider-Man and Batman?

[Spitfire]

People can totally relate to the TMNT. There's one TMNT for each problem a teenager has to deal with.

Leo - Responsibility
Raph - Rage
Mikey - Fun*Maturing*
Don - Intelligence*Thinking out problems*

Everyone no matter who they are in their lifetime has had all 4 of those and most people are in a constant state of one of those.

The problem with the comics is people see them and if they haven't already read TMNT before think "Aw those are probably kiddy like the cartoon."

Which we both know the NEW cartoon isn't kiddy but most older people don't watch it or give it a chance. Even though it's more adult it still doesn't appeal to an adult, nor does it to a child. It's for teens in my opinion.

The new movie was to dark for a kids movie but not adult enough for older audiences. This caused problems. Also the comics sported the movie turtles and not what was inside, which in most cases a violent bloody issue.

The unappealing factor is what you said, people just view TMNT based on their 80's and 90's run and not on what it really is. The old toon is a slice of the TMNT cake and it may be a big slice but the whole rest of the cake proves to me that TMNT is very adult and should be taken as serious as any other comic series.

To be honest the old comics are some of the best drawn, and written comics I've ever read. People praise Marvel for what they do but I have to say TMNT stomps any Marvel or DC comics I've read. And I've read alot.

[Katie]

It IS that whole "raping my childhood" thing that holds people back. That is why it will never be what it should. Some people are so fond of their version of TMNT that they will not accept anything different. Some ONLY know the kiddy version and figure that is all it is....and will never give it a second thought.

The various marketing and licensing folks COULD do a better job of making sure people are aware of ALL the different universes / aspects / versions of TMNT....but they don't. so people are left to their memories. And by and far those memories are of something that was part of their CHILDHOOD.


Personally I think it's weak to refuse any other version of TMNT (or any show for that matter) because the one you saw in your kiddy years was your first taste of something.

I'm not old enough to say this first hand, but imagine if we were all old enough to have seen that cheesy 60's live action Batman show as our very first introduction to Batman.....then decided nothing would ever be better than that. Look at all the neat movies and shows we would have missed...not to mention getting into the cannon of it. (now...I'm not really a big fan of anything outside TMNT...but you get my point)

I'm totally over all the TMNT "fans" that came out of the woodwork for this movie...ignorant fans who know nothing of anything than faded memories of a show they have not seen in years....then act like they know all things TMNT and flame me for not hating the new movie because there was no Krang Shredder and Bebop and Rocksteady....

Ugh...I'll get off my soapbox now :cry:

[triplexxx]

People can totally relate to the TMNT. There's one TMNT for each problem a teenager has to deal with.

Leo - Responsibility
Raph - Rage
Mikey - Fun*Maturing*
Don - Intelligence*Thinking out problems*

Everyone no matter who they are in their lifetime has had all 4 of those and most people are in a constant state of one of those.
I agree completely with that.

Since TMNT came into existence, it's become a lot of things. With the old cartoon, it leaned more to the goofy side. With the comics and new toon, it was more adultish, the comics being much more adult though. Those that can appreciate both the kiddy and the mature themes of TMNT, I believe, make the most loyal fans. And I don't think that should be so hard to do.

[GK Punk]

It IS that whole "raping my childhood" thing that holds people back.

We have a winner.

Also Characters like Spidey, Batman etc have been around for several generations, and constantly had new things being released in the mainstream. If the TMNT can last, and stay in everyone's minds, for several more years it's possible that the TMNT can also be up there with our other beloved American Icons.

I'm pretty sure the TMNT can do it ;)

[Mike Bock]

This is so true and I hate it.:evil:
I think that people don't take them seriously for many reasons and saddly one is because they are ninja Turtles. I've heard this so many times from alot of different people. Man I hate that.

How can you take a ninja Turtle seriously they say. It's a laughable concept.

But then I have to ask.. and what is so seriously cool about a car who transforms into a robot and has it's own life ? Is that better? Man that's even worse ( at least to me)

I still don't get it.

People tend to think of them as goofy animals for kids which is sad.

[Roseangelo]

It IS that whole "raping my childhood" thing that holds people back.

We have a winner.

Also Characters like Spidey, Batman etc have been around for several generations, and constantly had new things being released in the mainstream. If the TMNT can last, and stay in everyone's minds, for several more years it's possible that the TMNT can also be up there with our other beloved American Icons.

I'm pretty sure the TMNT can do it ;)

I totally agree.

The only way people are ever going to accept versions of the TMNT other than the 80s toon is if they're exposed to it. And right now Mirage is doing virtually nothing to expose anyone to that darker, more adult side of the TMNT. They're not even printing Tales of the TMNT in quantities high enough to fill orders. Number 32 is sold out on ninjaturtles.com and my comic shop never even got it in. My comic guy doesn't even believe me when I tell him that it's actually be published.

All those Marvel and DC characters exist on two tiers: for the kids and for the adults. Right now TMNT only exists for kids and it's hard to have staying power when you only target kids who are prone to change their minds and interests at the drop of a dime. Give them something of more substance when they get a little older and you can hook 'em for life.

[bullet]

Also Characters like Spidey, Batman etc have been around for several generations, and constantly had new things being released in the mainstream. If the TMNT can last, and stay in everyone's minds, for several more years it's possible that the TMNT can also be up there with our other beloved American Icons.

I'm pretty sure the TMNT can do it ;)

right, given enough time i'm sure tmnt can get up there. the OT is what most people remember of tmnt and though it doesn't really match up to the depth of the comics, most people'd hardly be swayed to believe otherwise. they also don't really care to find out for themselves, lol. 20 years from now, when people talk about the tmnt, they might be talking about a totally different thing than the 80s OT...kinda cool to think about.

[themaxonline]

My guess is that they became such a big thing in such a short time that they were EVERYWHERE for a few years and then people got sick of them. It happens to everything that suddenly gets popular quickly and then eventually dies off. People associate it with that period of time and then it becomes uncool. It happens with other tv shows, power rangers and such, in music you have Alanis Morissette, in movies you have various actors. The only show I can think of offhand that was able to retain its popularity after going thru incredible overnight popularity was the Simpsons.
I guess if they hadn't made the movies and probably to an extent, the tv show so present-day oriented (you can totally tell they're from the late 80s/early 90s) and Michaelangelo's surfer talk doesn't help.
But I still proudly say that my favourite tv show is the original ninja turtles cartoon! I rarely get any negative comments about them either although to reiterate the first post, people often say "I loved that show when I was a kid" or "I haven't seen it in years".

[Mike Bock]

people often say "I loved that show when I was a kid" or "I haven't seen it in years".

That's true. They should put the OT on re-runs alongside with the 2k3 and FF.

[Krang]

Those that can appreciate both the kiddy and the mature themes of TMNT, I believe, make the most loyal fans. And I don't think that should be so hard to do.
Well put. While I agree that it is annoying when people refuse to see the new movie because it's not what they remember, those who attack the original cartoon over it certainly aren't helping any either (referring to TMNT fans in general, not people who have posted in this thread, who have been respectful so far :) ). I think it's important to realize that both the serious TMNT universes and the goofy ones have brought something to the plate and have gotten the TMNT this far, so even if fans of one don't like the other, they should at least be tolerant.

[Buslady]

i had a camp counselor tell me they weren't gonna see it cos they thought it would be just some cartoon. I hope I changed their mind after telling them yeah it's CGI but NO it's no corny cartoon, it's dark and wonderful like TMNT1.

Sometimes it feels like TMNT is dying all over again...no advertising being done, no more cool toys or household stuff made, like Roseangelo says, comics can't even be filled cos they're not making enough...now the movie's done and almost gone, they haven't bothered to tie up the current V4 story or given us any clues to it. I feels like they don't care IMO...I hope I'm way wrong.
I've run out of Raph things to collect! I'm going retro now with old figs to add!

[SassyGal]

That whole "raping my childhood" seems to be the major thing holding back the TMNT for many fans of the 80's cartoon. I freely admit that in the beginning, I didn't want to watch 2k3 TMNT because it wasn't what I remembered from my childhood:o But my younger cousin convinced me that I should give it try, so I did. After deciding just like many people, my TMNT had to change & once I accepted the 80's were over :P I really fell into the new series, hardcore. I bought some of the DVD's to catch up and kicked myself in the butt for not giving it a chance in the first place.

80's TMNT will always be my fav no matter how many people make fun of me, but it's time we TMNT fans (not the peeps in the 'Drome as we are all open-minded:) ) opened our minds & let the TMNT keep evolving. When it comes down to it, each of the turtles still imbodies what we loved about them when we first met them.

[Courk]

You all seem a few years older than me. I know I grew up watching the 87 series, and I remember Krang and the Technodrome and the theme song -- but that's it. I can't remember what the show was like. This means I don't know how kiddie it was. I think there's hope for TMNT yet, as the generation that can barely remember the old toon grow up. Yes, some people will always prefer that, but that's human nature. I think most people my age and younger aren't going to be as tied to the old toon and their TMNT experience will focus more on the new toon and the 4 movies. I don't think the comics are going to be a huge factor, aside from adaptations in the movies or shows, due to their limited availability.

I think another reason the comics won't count as much is the number of comics. The first 4 volumes have ~126 issues. I'm not sure if that's counting the single issue individual turtles issues. All in all, I count at least 287 TMNT comics, and 23 of those apparently don't count for continuity. The comics were only 3 years old when they got a series, too. All of about 20 issues of some form of TMNT had been published by the time the toon started -- and probably even less when you consider pre-production time. The old toon can't really be blamed for not following the comics -- there would only be so many stories that could be pulled from that number of comics.

For comparison, just Uncanny X-Men has 475+ issues, but it is 20 years older, and didn't even get a series until it was almost 30 years old.

Other comic books had time to grow and develop before anything was made out of them. TMNT didn't get to do much of that. I don't think it's fair to compare it to other comic book-based series and movies for those reasons. It didn't get to have much of a comic book life before it moved into other media.

[ajistheman]

not only have a lot of 20-30 year olds not give the movie a chance, they never gave the new cartoon a chance. The turtles didn't have pupils, they were drawn funny (aka different than 87 designs), the show was changed (aka different story), so they don't know that the 2k3 turtles could be enjoyed by adults. They think it is a kids property. Whereas Batman, spiderman, etc. has lasted several generations, and will continue lasting, i'm sure a lot of non-turtles fans think the turtles are only back because we are in an "80's fad". The movie got criticized for not being silly/funny enough by some, and not being violent enough by others. Some thought it was raping their childhood, because, maybe, they wanted a silly movie. Whereas most of the people here wanted a more violent adult version. If this movie was pg-13, maybe people would believe that adults would like it. Maybe, the fact that batman is enjoyed by kids, teenagers, and adults makes a difference. Kevin M. himself even said that this movie is being marketed to 18-25 year olds, and 7-11 year olds. This excludes the teenagers. Since batman applies to all ages, adults can like it (in people's minds), but since people aren't aware that tmnt can be for adults, and it isn't for teenagers, all that's left in their mind is a kid's franchise.

sorry, i think that post made a lot more sense in my head, my post is kinda all over the place

[Courk]

It made sense to me. Although, looking at how disjointed my previous post was, that may not mean much. ;-)

What did today's teenagers have related to TMNT when they were younger? A 16 year old would have been born in 1991 -- by the time they're 5, it's 1996 and the original toon isn't on the air. The next mutation was on for a year, so that can hardly count for much. It wasn't until 2003 that the new series started, and they would have been 12. That's a bit late to be building childhood memories.

[jenna]

It's a shame really that there is a mentality out there that TMNT should be like the 1987 toon or not at all, and equally that it should be like 2k3 and that the 1987 toon was rubbish. Both toons have their part to play in TMNT history and I for one really love them both - for very different reasons.

But the main thing is that even if the film was not a huge blockbuster, it resonated with both fans of 1987 and 2k3, the films and comics and maintains a loyal fanbase (us!) and that's a lot better than a lot of films out there.

[bullet]

right on, jenna...very well said.

[Revan]

The turtles have been tagged as a cute children's project. I think that's what makes them unappealing to those who are not already fans.

I love the OT and what it did for the franchise but it's because of the sillyness of the OT that people have come to refer to the turtles as cute.

[SassyGal]

It's a shame really that there is a mentality out there that TMNT should be like the 1987 toon or not at all, and equally that it should be like 2k3 and that the 1987 toon was rubbish. Both toons have their part to play in TMNT history and I for one really love them both - for very different reasons.

But the main thing is that even if the film was not a huge blockbuster, it resonated with both fans of 1987 and 2k3, the films and comics and maintains a loyal fanbase (us!) and that's a lot better than a lot of films out there.

Excellent! I agree and couldn't have said it better!

[Aignatius]

I totally agree.

The only way people are ever going to accept versions of the TMNT other than the 80s toon is if they're exposed to it. And right now Mirage is doing virtually nothing to expose anyone to that darker, more adult side of the TMNT. They're not even printing Tales of the TMNT in quantities high enough to fill orders. Number 32 is sold out on ninjaturtles.com and my comic shop never even got it in. My comic guy doesn't even believe me when I tell him that it's actually be published.

All those Marvel and DC characters exist on two tiers: for the kids and for the adults. Right now TMNT only exists for kids and it's hard to have staying power when you only target kids who are prone to change their minds and interests at the drop of a dime. Give them something of more substance when they get a little older and you can hook 'em for life.

Over the years, I've observed a couple of things, based on my own POV, as limited as it is at times, but a POV nonetheless. It isn't a judgment either, but only an observation:

One, there's a lack of consistency in developing and promoting the TMNT after the inital Turtlemania surge.
Two, there are often marked conflicts of interest among the ranks.

Marvel and DC are much more organized, widespread and have a bigger publishing base than ever.
Mirage has become smaller than it was in its heyday in the late 80s.
Marvel and DC have huge booths at the Comic-Con. Mirage isn't even represented there at all.

Kevin and Peter, as you know, went their separate ways.
Kevin is present at the Comic-Con, has a booth with his magazine Heavy Metal, and enthusiastically meets with the fans. He's outgoing, congenial, and friendly. He travels.
Peter, OTOH, I don't know what he is like in person, but in comparison, he doesn't get out much. He doesn't travel, or go to many conventions, except relatively local ones on the East Coast. He doesn't seem to be the type of person who wants to widely promote things at least in a big way like Marvel and DC do. It just seems to be a pet project he will keep going until he's unable to continue.

There were projects with other publishers, such as Archie, Image, Dreamwave, and such, but the projects get canned before they are completed. A lot of stories didn't get finished.

I don't know if that's as much of a problem as Marvel, or DC, but with Mirage, it seems to be a problem for them.

While the movie was a great leap of faith, and a worthy endeavor, it wasn't enough to offset the other drawbacks that Mirage has been dealing with. It isn't enough to keep things going unless there's new blood infused into an anemic company.

Makes me sad, because TMNT is such a beautiful concept... :(

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Over the years, I've observed a couple of things, based on my own POV, as limited as it is at times, but a POV nonetheless. It isn't a judgment either, but only an observation:

One, there's a lack of consistency in developing and promoting the TMNT after the inital Turtlemania surge.
Two, there are often marked conflicts of interest among the ranks.

Marvel and DC are much more organized, widespread and have a bigger publishing base than ever.
Mirage has become smaller than it was in its heyday in the late 80s.
Marvel and DC have huge booths at the Comic-Con. Mirage isn't even represented there at all.

Kevin and Peter, as you know, went their separate ways.
Kevin is present at the Comic-Con, has a booth with his magazine Heavy Metal, and enthusiastically meets with the fans. He's outgoing, congenial, and friendly. He travels.
Peter, OTOH, I don't know what he is like in person, but in comparison, he doesn't get out much. He doesn't travel, or go to many conventions, except relatively local ones on the East Coast. He doesn't seem to be the type of person who wants to widely promote things at least in a big way like Marvel and DC do. It just seems to be a pet project he will keep going until he's unable to continue.

There were projects with other publishers, such as Archie, Image, Dreamwave, and such, but the projects get canned before they are completed. A lot of stories didn't get finished.

I don't know if that's as much of a problem as Marvel, or DC, but with Mirage, it seems to be a problem for them.

While the movie was a great leap of faith, and a worthy endeavor, it wasn't enough to offset the other drawbacks that Mirage has been dealing with. It isn't enough to keep things going unless there's new blood infused into an anemic company.

Makes me sad, because TMNT is such a beautiful concept... :(

I forgot who said this but, they were right, TMNT just became too big. I guess Peter is still playing very humble. He cares about the comic, and just want's to do that.

As for the lack of Con appearences, I think Peter has a fear of flying or soemthing. Which could exlain why he wasn't there for the preimere of TMNT.

[Aignatius]

Ah yeah, he doesn't like airplanes. I remember him mentioning that once upon a time. Like I said, it's not a judgement, but there's a lot that is lacking if one wants to maintain that superstardom the TMNT once had.

Personally, I don't mind if Mirage stays small, if they produce quality stories, quality art, and keep the integrity of the characters. That is what attracted me to the TMNT world in the first place.
I've been keeping up my hopes, I keep buying the comics, but often I'm disappointed. I pre-order my comics, so to be fair to the comic shop, I have to buy them if I ordered them, and if I'm not going to be getting my money's worth, I may give up on ordering any more of them in the future.
Jury's still out on the movie adaptation, haven't had the chance to look at it closely.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

There are a lot of good points here,
I know sometimes I go into a shop and this has been over a long time, and certain retailers don't even carry TMNT.
The fact is they are still around and in the last 4 years there have been 2K3, FF and a new film so I can't complain too much.
I just hope they keep going and maybe we will get lucky enough to see them stronger. I do see kids liking them. I see it everyday at the school I work with and children's entertainment is huge!

I would never say unappealing but maybe just overshadowed...?

[aabxx]

It's not difficult to relate to the turtles as they behave almost exactly like human beings (if real human beings could be superninjas...). (EDIT: Okay, on second thought, that might be an invalid statement as I'm only assuming based on my own ease of relating to them, maybe for most adults it's asking too much to relate to talking animals?).

However, culturally speaking talking animals are kiddie properties (here in the west at least). Spiderman and the likes however are more like teenage properties and therefore more acceptable to adults as teenagers are essentially very young adults.

In cinematic history, comic book adaptations of heroes everyone knows about combined with a big dose of "real life" and brilliant special effects have been established as a genre to be enjoyed by adults.

However this acceptance can be regarded much as a cinematic phenomenon rather than a general one. Obsessing about superhero movies or spiderman movies for an adult is fairly acceptable but adults obsessing about superhero comics and spiderman comics are begging to be made fun of.

TMNT however are talking animals. And the OT imprinted on the mind of everyone that it's only for kids. However, even if we take the OT fad out of the equation, TMNT would still have a problem to establish itself in the cinematic genre aforementioned because they're talking animals. X-men, Spider-man, Superman, Batman... they're not about talking animals!

Okay the 1990 movie did great so it might sound like I'm talking rubbish, however the 1990 movie was successful as a kiddies movie not as an adult movie. In fact, had the original movie been released without the OT ever happening I believe it would have been nowhere near a big success. Besides, as good as the 1990 movie looked, it still only looked like men in costumes. That screams "kiddies" to adults. The big superhero movies that do well all have in common that they look fantastic. It's a requirement for any superhero movie wanting to be taken serious.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

It's not difficult to relate to the turtles as they behave almost exactly like human beings (if real human beings could be superninjas...). (EDIT: Okay, on second thought, that might be an invalid statement as I'm only assuming based on my own ease of relating to them, maybe for most adults it's asking too much to relate to talking animals?).

However, culturally speaking talking animals are kiddie properties (here in the west at least). Spiderman and the likes however are more like teenage properties and therefore more acceptable to adults as teenagers are essentially very young adults.

In cinematic history, comic book adaptations of heroes everyone knows about combined with a big dose of "real life" and brilliant special effects have been established as a genre to be enjoyed by adults.

However this acceptance can be regarded much as a cinematic phenomenon rather than a general one. Obsessing about superhero movies or spiderman movies for an adult is fairly acceptable but adults obsessing about superhero comics and spiderman comics are begging to be made fun of.

TMNT however are talking animals. And the OT imprinted on the mind of everyone that it's only for kids. However, even if we take the OT fad out of the equation, TMNT would still have a problem to establish itself in the cinematic genre aforementioned because they're talking animals. X-men, Spider-man, Superman, Batman... they're not about talking animals!

Okay the 1990 movie did great so it might sound like I'm talking rubbish, however the 1990 movie was successful as a kiddies movie not as an adult movie. In fact, had the original movie been released without the OT ever happening I believe it would have been nowhere near a big success. Besides, as good as the 1990 movie looked, it still only looked like men in costumes. That screams "kiddies" to adults. The big superhero movies that do well all have in common that they look fantastic. It's a requirement for any superhero movie wanting to be taken serious.

I don't really see what makes TMNT any more ridiculous than other superheros. So they're talking animals, big whoop. If people really look at it, the Turtles are the most human out of all these other characters.

It's like what Dr. King said, we should be judged by the contents of character, the same should apply for 5 foot tall, talking turtles, that know ninjutsu.

[aabxx]

"I don't really see what makes TMNT any more ridiculous than other superheros. So they're talking animals, big whoop. If people really look at it, the Turtles are the most human out of all these other characters."

Maybe that's it? The fact that you and I are able to see giant talking Turtles as the most human out of many popular comic characters maybe says a lot more about our freaky nature than we realize? :D Shouldn't it be more natural to view characters like Spiderman and Batman as more human than TMNT seeing as they ARE much more human than the TMNT can ever hope to be? :D

Actually it's sort of funny we're calling them so human considering they are not human, don't look human, don't view themselves as humans, have on several occasions indicated a dislike torwards humans and depending on their mood, would be so insulted by such a statement as to put us in our place for thinking the universe revolves around human beings at its center.

[jenna]

"I don't really see what makes TMNT any more ridiculous than other superheros. So they're talking animals, big whoop. If people really look at it, the Turtles are the most human out of all these other characters."

Maybe that's it? The fact that you and I are able to see giant talking Turtles as the most human out of many popular comic characters maybe says a lot more about our freaky nature than we realize? :D Shouldn't it be more natural to view characters like Spiderman and Batman as more human than TMNT seeing as they ARE much more human than the TMNT can ever hope to be? :D



I think there's a lot to be said for that. It takes someone of a certain imagination to be able to appreciate the turtles. I think it's no coincidence that most TMNT fans found their love of the turtles during their childhood, when imagination is limitless.

It's clever work from the creators who made the characters so believable. They are very relatable and all very complex. The difference between batman / spideman and the turtles in my opinion is that whilst they are conflicted individuals, they are by no stretch as complex as each of the turtles and suffer from 2-dimensionalism.

The other thing we have to remember, is that those of us who did jump on the TMNT bandwagon during the 80s have established our own "relationship" with the characters that is now 20 years old. We have been relating to them this long.

A friend of mine watched an episode of the NT and commented that "Raphael is just a nasty piece of work" and this made me realise that one episode is just a snapshot of a history that has been built up and the universe is huge, and each little incarnation scratches a surface of the character, but cannot possibly go into all the details. Therefore, the characters seem so much more real to those of us who have known them all this time. We were there when Shredder kidnapped Michelangelo, when Ninjara broke Raphael's heart, when Leo sat by Raph unconscious in the bath tub, when Don got fed up of the hurt feelings from being ridiculed by his brothers and went off on his own, and when the leach sucked all of Raph's mutagen away and he bacame a normal turtle again. We went through it all with them in a way...

That's my theory anyway :D

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I think there's a lot to be said for that. It takes someone of a certain imagination to be able to appreciate the turtles. I think it's no coincidence that most TMNT fans found their love of the turtles during their childhood, when imagination is limitless.

It's clever work from the creators who made the characters so believable. They are very relatable and all very complex. The difference between batman / spideman and the turtles in my opinion is that whilst they are conflicted individuals, they are by no stretch as complex as each of the turtles and suffer from 2-dimensionalism.

The other thing we have to remember, is that those of us who did jump on the TMNT bandwagon during the 80s have established our own "relationship" with the characters that is now 20 years old. We have been relating to them this long.

A friend of mine watched an episode of the NT and commented that "Raphael is just a nasty piece of work" and this made me realise that one episode is just a snapshot of a history that has been built up and the universe is huge, and each little incarnation scratches a surface of the character, but cannot possibly go into all the details. Therefore, the characters seem so much more real to those of us who have known them all this time. We were there when Shredder kidnapped Michelangelo, when Ninjara broke Raphael's heart, when Leo sat by Raph unconscious in the bath tub, when Don got fed up of the hurt feelings from being ridiculed by his brothers and went off on his own, and when the leach sucked all of Raph's mutagen away and he bacame a normal turtle again. We went through it all with them in a way...

That's my theory anyway :D

When was that?

[jenna]

When was that?

OT Beyond the Donatello Nebula. They all were laughing at him so he stormed off.

[GordonUniverse]

We have a winner.

Also Characters like Spidey, Batman etc have been around for several generations, and constantly had new things being released in the mainstream. If the TMNT can last, and stay in everyone's minds, for several more years it's possible that the TMNT can also be up there with our other beloved American Icons.

I'm pretty sure the TMNT can do it ;)

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to post, and I wrote a blog entry back in November that touched on this and on TMNT's longevity.

The big question concerning their longevity, in my opinion, is "What will happen to the TMNT when Peter Laird passes away or retires?"

[Time Mistress]

I think there are some important points that have been made here. TMNT it still a very young franchise compared to Spidey, Batman, Supes, etc. 2k3 and the new movie have proven to me that TMNT is not just a one time phenonenon and does have the staying power of other popular superheroes as well. And that exites me to no end. The real question as GordonUniveese said is what happens when Peter is gone, but other heroes outlive their creators so I'm sure someone will pick up the slack. Maybe one of the big two will aquire the rights from pete's estate, who knows?

As for those who only say they remember the old cartoon it's a complement I think. Again, what else could they know? TMNT isn't that old. The comics are independant not mainstream. And I bet that just as many remember the first movie or two which were very well recieved at the box office. TMNT is a very flexible in it's concept and that's a very good thing. It can be young and funny like the old toon or dark and serious like Mirage, or something inbetween for both audiences like the first movie or new toon or new movie, which is not an easy thing to do. The franchise has also realized it's limits over the years in what constitutes going too far (TNM and Image on opposite ends of the spectrum).

The thing to realize as you get older is that your favorite franchise will usually be marketed young than you think it should. But many remeber the first two movies fondly as well. TMNT is not dying. TMNT may go into hiatus again when FF is done and if there are no movie sequels, but we survived from 1998 to 2002 a good 5 years with no show and many thought TMNT was done with. The bottom line is TMNT will always come back in some form. You just have to be patient and when it does come back, we will be there ready to welcome TMNT back with open arms (or to tear it to shreads) becuase that's what fans do.;)

And don't talk to me about the 'raping of childhood.' TMNT fans have nothing on Transformers fans. You have no idea what that phrase truly means until you read your umpteenth thread on a Transformers news board about the new movie and Michael Bay.;) TMNT fans are so lucky that our franchise is based on a comic and not on a toy line which means that the fab four will never be killed off or replaced in favor of characters we have never seen or heard of before.

[Zeno]

The way I see it, we all grew, so why shouldnt the Turtles, the old toon was great, and the new toon is great in a different way, to me its not raping or even changing so much as evolving with the years, the brothers simply grew up there not as goofy as they(and we) were at that age.
As far as the concept of talking animals being kiddy, hell all through history different cultures have written about, spoken of, and even worshipped personified animals.
I admit I was skeptical of the 2k3 toon at first, but after seeing most of the episodes, and watching the new movie(ALOT!) I feel the same fanboyish ferver I had as a child for the franchise.
Tho the whole fast forward thing still bugs me, just miss seeing April, Casey, and all the other characters.



PS, I just gotta say as a newer member to the Drome, its great that when I got back into em, theres still a place like this to talk of all the wonderful memories past, and to be made in the future as well, you guys rock.

[jenna]

I think there are some important points that have been made here. TMNT it still a very young franchise compared to Spidey, Batman, Supes, etc. 2k3 and the new movie have proven to me that TMNT is not just a one time phenonenon and does have the staying power of other popular superheroes as well. And that exites me to no end. The real question as GordonUniveese said is what happens when Peter is gone, but other heroes outlive their creators so I'm sure someone will pick up the slack. Maybe one of the big two will aquire the rights from pete's estate, who knows?

As for those who only say they remember the old cartoon it's a complement I think. Again, what else could they know? TMNT isn't that old. The comics are independant not mainstream. And I bet that just as many remember the first movie or two which were very well recieved at the box office. TMNT is a very flexible in it's concept and that's a very good thing. It can be young and funny like the old toon or dark and serious like Mirage, or something inbetween for both audiences like the first movie or new toon or new movie, which is not an easy thing to do. The franchise has also realized it's limits over the years in what constitutes going too far (TNM and Image on opposite ends of the spectrum).

The thing to realize as you get older is that your favorite franchise will usually be marketed young than you think it should. But many remeber the first two movies fondly as well. TMNT is not dying. TMNT may go into hiatus again when FF is done and if there are no movie sequels, but we survived from 1998 to 2002 a good 5 years with no show and many thought TMNT was done with. The bottom line is TMNT will always come back in some form. You just have to be patient and when it does come back, we will be there ready to welcome TMNT back with open arms (or to tear it to shreads) becuase that's what fans do.;)

And don't talk to me about the 'raping of childhood.' TMNT fans have nothing on Transformers fans. You have no idea what that phrase truly means until you read your umpteenth thread on a Transformers news board about the new movie and Michael Bay.;) TMNT fans are so lucky that our franchise is based on a comic and not on a toy line which means that the fab four will never be killed off or replaced in favor of characters we have never seen or heard of before.

Very profound words. I like this approach very much. :)

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I think there are some important points that have been made here. TMNT it still a very young franchise compared to Spidey, Batman, Supes, etc. 2k3 and the new movie have proven to me that TMNT is not just a one time phenonenon and does have the staying power of other popular superheroes as well. And that exites me to no end. The real question as GordonUniveese said is what happens when Peter is gone, but other heroes outlive their creators so I'm sure someone will pick up the slack. Maybe one of the big two will aquire the rights from pete's estate, who knows?

As for those who only say they remember the old cartoon it's a complement I think. Again, what else could they know? TMNT isn't that old. The comics are independant not mainstream. And I bet that just as many remember the first movie or two which were very well recieved at the box office. TMNT is a very flexible in it's concept and that's a very good thing. It can be young and funny like the old toon or dark and serious like Mirage, or something inbetween for both audiences like the first movie or new toon or new movie, which is not an easy thing to do. The franchise has also realized it's limits over the years in what constitutes going too far (TNM and Image on opposite ends of the spectrum).

The thing to realize as you get older is that your favorite franchise will usually be marketed young than you think it should. But many remeber the first two movies fondly as well. TMNT is not dying. TMNT may go into hiatus again when FF is done and if there are no movie sequels, but we survived from 1998 to 2002 a good 5 years with no show and many thought TMNT was done with. The bottom line is TMNT will always come back in some form. You just have to be patient and when it does come back, we will be there ready to welcome TMNT back with open arms (or to tear it to shreads) becuase that's what fans do.;)

And don't talk to me about the 'raping of childhood.' TMNT fans have nothing on Transformers fans. You have no idea what that phrase truly means until you read your umpteenth thread on a Transformers news board about the new movie and Michael Bay.;) TMNT fans are so lucky that our franchise is based on a comic and not on a toy line which means that the fab four will never be killed off or replaced in favor of characters we have never seen or heard of before.

Very well said.

In regards to the future of the book after PL dies. I totally understand if he wants the book to end with him, but, I would like to see him pass the franchise to trustworthy guys when it comes down to that. It would be cool to see the TMNT in the safe hands of the rest of the Mirage crew. Or guys like Tristan Jones, Diego Jourdan, Andres Ponce, Jake Black, and the rest of the freelancers.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Spider-Man is old and established and has gone through several generations of kids now. Same for all the others. TMNT has only gone through one generation: us. Give it ten years and see if they don't pull the same respect as the older ones.

[Ava Collier]

In general, most people are no deeper than spit.
Mickey Mouse is a talking animal. in fact, there are a lot of widely accepted talking animals. In cartoons, on cereal boxes...but those are cuddly. Usually mammals, or birds that posess an obnoxiously obvious degree of cute.

Most people believe themselves to be above animals.
Splinter and the boys are not animals with good reputations. Meaning, these creatures generally do not prompt snuggle time among the ignorant masses.
Turtles in general are well liked enough I suppose. However, people are still going to come back to that "slimy reptile" mindset. Turtle as a symbol is commonly associated with things like "slow" and "coward".

Don't even get me started on people's misconceptions of rats. *waves a Rat King pennant* Both species are associated with disease. I go to the local exotic pet place, and there are big posters basically saying, if you make out with your turtle, you'll get salmanella....which has prompted many nasty (but funny) jokes about Ava :P
Coincidently, I was told the same thing about eating raw cookie dough, and it doesn't stop me *cough* >.>

They are not naive good boys from Smallville. They are not swinging around the city trying to win true love. they are not rich...they do NOT have a ****ing mansion, or a cool turtle cave. They live in the ****ing sewer.

Ninjas (although as glorified as pirates, and often associated with being "cool") are also commonly portrayed as villains. Assassins. Thieves. That means...they kill people. People die. Dying=bad. I don't remember anyone dying in the OT. I don't remember them doing anything that might offend anyone, or even make them think...and if you tried to think, something might click, snap, and ...boing.

This is kinda where the major conflict between OT and NT come in for me. NT has stepped away from the kiddie mindset...BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW OLD WE ARE NOW! Still, NT seems to numb emotions toward death of all things (*cough* Hey Don, we've only got thirty minutes here. "Oh my poor brothers..." Well...I guess I'll finally have some time alone to work on my inventions. >.>)

It's really ironic that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles can be more "real" than some people can handle.
The only real "reason" I ever had for not wanting to watch 2k3, was 4kids. I got over that quickly, and as much as I love OT, if they'd done it the same way now, I would have probably lost interest. (In the show...not in my boys ^_~)

As some of you may have noticed, I snorted the fine line between goofy, and edgy early on in life. That made Mikey, and Raph forget what they were fighting about, and go get some pizza.

My point is...most people are shallow. Most people will always judge a book by it's cover. Everyone here is biased, but I firmly believe these are characters you have to know to appreciate.

Unfortunately, you can be the most open minded, accepting person in the world, and it doesn't make your money worth more.

[Rooish]

Woah. Ava, jenna, and Time Mistress ... great poignant speeches, gals!

I gotta ask, though ... do you people really think that the Turtles have more complex personalities than, say, Batman or Spider-man or Wolverine or other superhero characters? I mean, people adore those guys for a reason. I don' actually read other comics besides TMNT, so I don't know. But are the Turtles really more "human" than those guys??

[Spawn Guy]

More than Batman maybe. I'd say they work more along the lines of the Fantastic Four. You can't really get more human than Spider-Man.

[Ava Collier]

Woah. Ava, jenna, and Time Mistress ... great poignant speeches, gals!

I gotta ask, though ... do you people really think that the Turtles have more complex personalities than, say, Batman or Spider-man or Wolverine or other superhero characters? I mean, people adore those guys for a reason. I don' actually read other comics besides TMNT, so I don't know. But are the Turtles really more "human" than those guys??

Roo, I could compare those three to the turtles easily. Some of them have things BLATANTLY obviously in common with...*glares at her own grammar* ahem.

Batman is a very complex character. I can see aspects of each of the boys in him. The science, the honor code, the rage, the playboy...and yet to me personally, it all seems fake...and I AM a fan of Batman, though I don't relate to him at all. He doesn't even have super powers (despite what my new rpg book says ~_~) and he really doesn't seem human to me at all. He's not a believable character in the slightest, and I know some people are going to think I fell off my cracker saying TMNT are believable, but hell, I sometimes forget they're NOT REAL! I just don't feel emotions for Batman. Well...I kinda feel warm and fuzzy when he embarasses Superman. I hate Superman.

I don't think Wolvie and Raph could be more obvious...HOWEVER I'm going to have to disqualify him on account of being a mutant too :P
I like Wolverine. I really do. He's not in my favorites, but I don't hate him and want him to die like the marauders! >.> (note: Most of my Marvel knowledge is a very biased personal opinion from an ongoing Marvel Superheroes campaign I've been involved with for EIGHT FREAKIN' YEARS!...damn marauders.)

I'm embarassingly enough not that familiar with Spider-man. *points at self with an accusing finger* Bad spider lady! I only officially saw the first movie...but his personality reminds me a LOT of Donatello. What I have seen/read of him, I would have to agree with Spawn Guy. He's probably the most human of any of the other superheroes mentioned.

Umm...slightly off topic I think >.>...I don't really know anything about The Incredible Hulk, but I've kinda noticed something going on with NT Leatherhead there...


I really don't think I'm the one to ask these questions though.
I'm not terribly into the superhero thing. I don't think of the boys as superheroes...though I'm not sure what I'd classify them as. People look a me like I'm such a dork when I go on about how much TMNT has influenced my life. It was a passion that never died down. My first love. And to think I was pissed that they cancelled Dinosaucers, and put these turtles on my tv. HA!
I am not a fan of comic books in general. This could be because I wasn't really exposed to them until I met my husband...who said "Here, read age of apocalypse!" I don't know why that man is still alive. After years of trauma, and Marvel roleplaying (with a character closely related to the Morlocks) I thought I'd try it again...so he got me mutant massacre ~_~
I heard evil things about TMNT comics, so with that being said, if anyone ever tried to give me one, I think it'd go up real pretty in my future outdoor fireplace.

I had a point...I think. I think my point turned into ranting. Personally, I do think the turtles are more "human" than most of those other guys. Or maybe, I'm just a lot less human.

Squeak.

[jenna]

Yo Rooish - I must confess I don't know Batman and Spideman well enough beyond the movies to be quotable on this matter but have to say that as an actress and english literature obsessive, I have to say that the turles are some of the most complex characters out there. Almost astonishlingly so.

Oh man, I might be drunk right now, but still stand by my belief that the turtles, Raphael in particular, are of the most complex characters ever written.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.... :D

[Ava Collier]

Oh man, I might be drunk right now, but still stand by my belief that the turtles, Raphael in particular, are of the most complex characters ever written.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.... :D


XD I think you redefined "poignant" just now. You shouldn't drink if you're poignant >.>

[Warhorse]

Yo Rooish - I must confess I don't know Batman and Spideman well enough beyond the movies to be quotable on this matter but have to say that as an actress and english literature obsessive, I have to say that the turles are some of the most complex characters out there. Almost astonishlingly so.

Oh man, I might be drunk right now, but still stand by my belief that the turtles, Raphael in particular, are of the most complex characters ever written.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.... :D


Hey, I agree totally with you!

In fact, I think the Turtles (Raph in particular) is probably one of the most well drawn out characters I have ever seen, in any medium. I'm a big fan or LOTR. Read the books many times. But, while the stories go into detail on the settings, the times. I dont feel anything with the characters that I do when watching a TMNT cartoon.

Sometimes, I find the Turtles to be more human and relate to them more than I do with real live people.

[Swany]

I can't say I find then unappealing at all.

I like the fact that I can relate to them with my 3 bros.

[Andrew NDB]

An excellent post.

For too long now this question has been floating around my mind, and I really need to know. Why is it that when it comes to characters like Spider-Man and Transformers, people can say things like "Oh these guys are so cool" or "I can relate to them so much". But when it comes to the turtles, the best people can say is, "I remember them from that 80's cartoon".

Yep. And if you're going to stand there and try and reason with them with "Well... they started in a very gritty, real comic" you'll just sound like a douche. Catch 22.

The Turtles are treated as nothing but kid stuff, mainly because of the concept.

Not the concept itself, just where its been in the mainstream. As you just wrote, the party line answer from people is going to be some kind of vague remembrance of the 80s cartoon.

But I never understood that, the concept is no goofier than Spidey's or Hulk's. The point is to look past the silly orgin, and enjoy the stories.

The origin is far, far from being problematic to their public stature.

OK... aside from normal Splinter learning martial arts in his cage...

Another thing I've found is, people say they would like to see a more grown up TMNT, but when the TMNT try to deliver on that, all of a sudden, all of a sudden you got a bunch of people saying it's raping they're childhood.

The TMNT have never tried to deliver on that in any media outside of the comics. And with so many different incarnations of the TMNT out there -- some kid-pandering, some quite the opposite -- and fans having totally different taste and favorites (and not only is this to be expected, but it's totally OK)... there's no way you'll ever get TMNT fans at large to agree on anything. It's not even worth it to try.

As I've posted elsewhere, the best thing they could do is just let TMNT sit on a shelf for a decade or so, let the memory of the kid-pandering stuff fade a bit from pop culture and memory... then come back starting from ground zero, a PG-13 movie or TV show that is nearly a panel-for-panel adaption or amalgamation of the comics.

Alot of times, people don't really know what they want with TMNT. Some want it all goofy, some want it completley hardcore, and anything less is unacceptable.

The problem is that the fandom has never really been united, and it never really will. It's not criminal, and we should all celebrate our differences (that is what keeps things interesting), it's just the way it is.

I thought it could be that maybe the general public don't think the characters are relatable. That they're not socially relevant.

Not the general public, the bean counters that pay for the production of movies and television shows. They hear "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" and the extent of their care toward whether or not the characters are relatable barely extends past their thoughts dancing around of toys and merch.

"It used to be a successful kiddy show and sold a lotta toys... the formula worked back then. Hm, we can risk growing up the Turtles and actually doing a comic book movie and maybe the movie will bomb.... or we can just stick with what we know -- the kiddy formula -- and have a better chance at box office. Kiddy show it is!"

It's sad, it sucks, but that's just the nature of the people with the money/influence that have backed every major media incarnation of the TMNT to date.

But even that doesn't make sense. If people would just let down they're gaurds they would see that they can relate to at least one of the Turtles.

If you're somewhat of an older brother figure, someone that has to be resposnsible for others. Or just someone that strives hard for perfection, you can relate to Leonardo.

If you're generally easy going, you like to have fun, you avoid conflict, rarely get angry, and you have a strong creative side, you can relate to Michelangelo.

If you have a curios mind, or if someone who tends to get really wrapped up in your work, so much so that you sometimes inadvertantly alienate people close to you, you can relate to Donatello.

If you're the kind of peorson that tends to take other people's problems on your shoulder, and alot of times get frustrated that you can't do much to help. Or if you're a loner, who solves they're own problems alone and doesn't like asking for help, you can relate to Raphael.

Right on all fronts. Though I hate how it's so easy to categorize the TMNT as one-trick ponies. "Raph is angry!" "Mike is goofy!" "Don is nerdy!" "Leo is leadery!" I mean, c'mon... aren't they a little deeper than this?

With some fans it's like a cardinal sin if Leo makes a joke, or Mike gets angry, or Raph fixes something mechanical.

Sorry, neither here nor there, just had to vent that bit. :)

But still, there's no law that states you have to relate to a character to like them. How many of us can honestly say we can relate to Batman, yet we still like the character.

Quite right. I'd daresay any one of the TMNT are more relatable to the average person than a billionaire with mental issues dressing up like a bat, hopping rooftops to fight crime.

People will say they have such fond memories of the Turtles, but when it came to TMNT, no one would even go see it They say that this movie is tainting they're childhoods, but how exactly?

Whoever is saying that, they deserve it.

This movie had nothing to do the orginal cartoon. The people who loved the 60's Batman series didn't complain when Tim Burton made Batman back in 1990. Or maybe they did, I don't know. Point is, people looked past the differences and accepted the movie for what it was. Why couldn't people do the same with TMNT?

You mean apart from the nonsense plot and spineless action?

All the idiots that said it wasn't goofy enough, are being totaly unfair.

After watching this new TMNT movie, I can say I felt thoroughly "goofed."

Why didn't anyone say the same about Superman, or Hellboy, or the Transformers.

If TMNT had gotten a PG-13 ratting, would that have changed people's tunes. I think it would, seeing as how the PG ratting Warner Bros forced upon the movie didn't help it one bit.

You'll get no argument from me.

I'm posing this question to TMNT fans and non TMNT fans alike. I need to know, what is it that makes the TMNT so different that it can't be accepted like Spider-Man and Batman?

Because the only real way TMNT can endure is to "grow up" the material a bit, something TPTB seem to be doing everything in their power to prevent for want of toys, toys, toys and Happy Meals and rubbish. So what we get is a cyclical series of events where one fandom gets older and older while the Turtles are getting younger and younger, with not even a bone tossed out to the fans who are quickly outgrowing them.

I'm not talking about us, the diehard fans. We'll watch/buy almost anything called TMNT.

[triplexxx]

I can't say I find then unappealing at all.
The feeling's mutual. Up until year 2003, I was always stuck on the old toon, and I still am. But at the same time, I decided to purchase the old movies that year and watch them all in their entirity for the first time, and I came to love all three of them after watching them once or twice. Same with the new toon, when I found out it was for real and got my first glimpse on tv, I only had to watch a few episodes before I got stuck on that as well. The new movie rocked too. It's all a matter of expanding one's horizons, you don't have to shut out the old stuff, just keep it and allow the new stuff in as well. Maybe some people are better able to do this than others.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

An excellent post.



Yep. And if you're going to stand there and try and reason with them with "Well... they started in a very gritty, real comic" you'll just sound like a douche. Catch 22.

Yeah, I know that. I know that all too well.

The TMNT have never tried to deliver on that in any media outside of the comics. And with so many different incarnations of the TMNT out there -- some kid-pandering, some quite the opposite -- and fans having totally different taste and favorites (and not only is this to be expected, but it's totally OK)... there's no way you'll ever get TMNT fans at large to agree on anything. It's not even worth it to try.

Except for the fact that they like the TMNT, in at least one form. :lol:

As I've posted elsewhere, the best thing they could do is just let TMNT sit on a shelf for a decade or so, let the memory of the kid-pandering stuff fade a bit from pop culture and memory... then come back starting from ground zero, a PG-13 movie or TV show that is nearly a panel-for-panel adaption or amalgamation of the comics.

Aside from waiting 10 years, I'm so down for that. I know the old show is what put the Turtles in people's minds, but in order for them to grow beyond 80's nostalgia, the memories of the show need to fade.


Not the general public, the bean counters that pay for the production of movies and television shows. They hear "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" and the extent of their care toward whether or not the characters are relatable barely extends past their thoughts dancing around of toys and merch.

"It used to be a successful kiddy show and sold a lotta toys... the formula worked back then. Hm, we can risk growing up the Turtles and actually doing a comic book movie and maybe the movie will bomb.... or we can just stick with what we know -- the kiddy formula -- and have a better chance at box office. Kiddy show it is!"

It's sad, it sucks, but that's just the nature of the people with the money/influence that have backed every major media incarnation of the TMNT to date.

They just need to stop looking at one audience. The original audience are grown now, so they expect more maturity, and the kids, well, they like anything with action and wierd characters. TMNT delievers on that, the studios just need to be made to see it.


Right on all fronts. Though I hate how it's so easy to categorize the TMNT as one-trick ponies. "Raph is angry!" "Mike is goofy!" "Don is nerdy!" "Leo is leadery!" I mean, c'mon... aren't they a little deeper than this?

With some fans it's like a cardinal sin if Leo makes a joke, or Mike gets angry, or Raph fixes something mechanical.

Sorry, neither here nor there, just had to vent that bit. :)

When people think of the TMNT's personalities, they instantly rember the old theme song: "Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines...". And in they're defense, it's easier to sing than "Leonardo is the leader but occasionaly doubts his abilities and has a hard time being the responsible one of the group, Donatello does machines and other inventions and rather solve problems with is mind..."


Quite right. I'd daresay any one of the TMNT are more relatable to the average person than a billionaire with mental issues dressing up like a bat, hopping rooftops to fight crime.

I think my Uncle Kevin can relate to that.

Whoever is saying that, they deserve it.



You mean apart from the nonsense plot and spineless action?



After watching this new TMNT movie, I can say I felt thoroughly "goofed."

We have totally different opinions on this front. But I don't want to fight about it so I'll just say, to each his own.




Because the only real way TMNT can endure is to "grow up" the material a bit, something TPTB seem to be doing everything in their power to prevent for want of toys, toys, toys and Happy Meals and rubbish. So what we get is a cyclical series of events where one fandom gets older and older while the Turtles are getting younger and younger, with not even a bone tossed out to the fans who are quickly outgrowing them.

I'm not talking about us, the diehard fans. We'll watch/buy almost anything called TMNT.

The new toon tried to grow with the times, when it came to story lines and characterization. The problem though, especially when you're on a network called 4 Kdis, it makes things a little hard to capture an older crowd.

And even the movie tried it, the main plot of the film was basically about a family coming back together and two members sorting out deep seeded personal issues, but people just couldn't get past the moster side plot.

I guess the studios just see that the Turtles appealed to kids once, and rather than expanding to appeal to an older crowd as well, they just go for more kids and expect everything to be fine.

[Andrew NDB]

The new toon tried to grow with the times, when it came to story lines and characterization.

Yes, I totally applaud the early bits of the 4Kids cartoon. Totally, and I'm amazed at the level of direct creative involvement Laird was allowed -- what we got are great homages and semi-adaptions of classic Mirage stories. Shocked as all hell they were even able to allow Leo to behead Shredder like in the comics... some clever writing there that allowed that (his body is just a robot, etc), but the show showed some balls.

The problem though, especially when you're on a network called 4 Kdis, it makes things a little hard to capture an older crowd.

Well, no one can expect any TMNT cartoon to "set the record straight" as far as public perception of TMNT, though the new one has done a bit of damage control.

Say, if after the old cartoon and Turtlemania of the 90s died down, the public perception of the TMNT as kiddy nonsense was at a 10 out of 10, after the new toon it's somewhere around a more respectable 7 or 8. At least as I see it.

And even the movie tried it, the main plot of the film was basically about a family coming back together and two members sorting out deep seeded personal issues, but people just couldn't get past the monster side plot.

Since the movie spent so much time, energy, and emphasis on the monster side plot/Stargate/Statue People, that's not necessarily surprising. But we can agree to disagree, as you said.

I guess the studios just see that the Turtles appealed to kids once, and rather than expanding to appeal to an older crowd as well, they just go for more kids and expect everything to be fine.

Yep. And thus continues the cycle, never really learning from history.

[weredog]

I guess most people can't take talking animals seriously. Hard to relate to characters of a different species I guess.

I'm just the opposite. The fact that the turtles aren't human is one of the things that attracted me to them. I tend to identify with non humans easier than humans for some reason. Faulty wiring I suppose. While I can enjoy things like Spider Man, I won't go out of my way to watch them or buy the comics or whatever. If it's there, fine I'll watch or I'll read but it's no great loss to me if it never existed. Frankly I don't find the concept of mutated turtles trained to be ninjas any more silly than the idea of guys running around in long underwear beating the snot out of various other guys also in long underwear. Even the fact that a normal rat can learn martial arts by watching his master isn't any more silly than a guy bitten by a radioactive spider getting superpowers rather than, oh, I don't know, dying in the most horrible fashion.

[Ninjinister]

One problem I have is that there seem to be many more people psyched over Transformers than there were for TMNT - despite Transformer's plot being a load of hooey. Although I'm (obviously) a bigger TMNT fan than a Transformers one, I never really hated them (although all TV series after Beast Machines were boring in my opinion). However, the entire concept of the Transformers movie is how human will deal with a war between Autobots and Decepticons. Who the f--- cares?

[Warhorse]

One problem I have is that there seem to be many more people psyched over Transformers than there were for TMNT - despite Transformer's plot being a load of hooey. Although I'm (obviously) a bigger TMNT fan than a Transformers one, I never really hated them (although all TV series after Beast Machines were boring in my opinion). However, the entire concept of the Transformers movie is how human will deal with a war between Autobots and Decepticons. Who the f--- cares?


From a personal point of view. Transformers is a disaster flick. It's going to be the action and very sick scenes (in a good way) of familiar robots tearing each other up. It's the same reason why people flock to the movies in droves to see Spider-Man, X-Men, Star Wars and Independence Day. Because of the big epic like action scenes, and some nostalgia thrown in.

When I heard of a Transformers movie being made, I wrote it off, thinking it was gonna be another cartoon. Then I saw the trailer, and I liked what I saw.

This is actually a good basis for an argument concerning how the TMNT are being handled. In that they are being treated too kiddy like, but yet they are too complex for the kiddies to grasp. They only know the blue one or the red one.

If this movie was allowed to be a PG-13 like Spider-Man, X-Men, Harry Potter or Transformers (which the official rating has yet to be released. Seems it's having a difficult time getting the desired PG-13 rating the studios want) TMNT could have been seeing a different out come.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Well, if we are lucky enough to see a sequel, then we should all petition of that PG-13 rating. It's not going to hurt the marketability with kids, and it won't alienate the 18-25 crowd.

PG - Bad
PG-13 - Profitable

[jenna]

Originally Posted by jenna
Oh man, I might be drunk right now, but still stand by my belief that the turtles, Raphael in particular, are of the most complex characters ever written.

Well, that's my opinion anyway....

XD I think you redefined "poignant" just now. You shouldn't drink if you're poignant >.>

Erm.... *sheepish grin* sorry about that.

[Warhorse]

Well, if we are lucky enough to see a sequel, then we should all petition of that PG-13 rating. It's not going to hurt the marketability with kids, and it won't alienate the 18-25 crowd.

PG - Bad
PG-13 - Profitable

Definitely. Spider-Man is PG-13, and look how many kids are in that audience. And it still sells massive amounts of toys, books, backpacks and all that other crap aimed at kids.

Transformers as well is going to have a toy line. This whole mess is really making WB look like a bunch of unwise group of people thinking that TMNT just had to be PG to be appealing to kids! Face it, they screwed up big time!

[jenna]

Definitely. Spider-Man is PG-13, and look how many kids are in that audience. And it still sells massive amounts of toys, books, backpacks and all that other crap aimed at kids.

Transformers as well is going to have a toy line. This whole mess is really making WB look like a bunch of unwise group of people thinking that TMNT just had to be PG to be appealing to kids! Face it, they screwed up big time!

I have to say I agree, although I'm biased cos I'm 26, not 6.

Interestingly, when I was there, a couple had taken kids who were fairly young in. Half way through, this little boy who looked about 6 stood up on his chair, planted his fists on his hips and declared in a loud, annoying voice: "I really don't like this!"

I laughed a lot. Most of the reast of the audience were 20-somethings. They all snickered at that too. It's like there was an unspoken knowledge amongst us all that the movie shouldn't have been for kids anyway.

[Spawn Guy]

And not one thing was thrown into the little brats skull? Not one blessed thing?

That's fan devotion for you...

[jenna]

And not one thing was thrown into the little brats skull? Not one blessed thing?

That's fan devotion for you...

Well, I was there poised to hurl my cup of tea, but then I realised I would have to go without my tea, so I bit back the urge. ;)

[Spawn Guy]

Well you can't waste a good cuppa...

[Ava Collier]

*pats Jenna* so cute! ^_^
I don't go to the movies anymore because of people like this kid you mention.
Okay...not people, and the kid sounds adorable really. (Kinda like my baby brother at my grandmother's funeral. We were told to pause, and my 8 year old brother goes. "Is he done?"...not everyone laughed >.>) But my husband >.<;
Sunshine and I have no idea what Spider-man 2 was about, but we know J Jonah Jameson's son is a werewolf...and Aunt May is scary. Take her money. Take all her money. I must have jumped three rows back. you could tell I was raised by my grandmother. My husband...The Drewatello... just would NOT shut up. I don't even know this character's name...I just know he's J Jonah Jameson's son...AND a werewolf. He kept saying it over, and over, and over...
"Hey isn't that the famous astronaut?"
"AAAAAAND a werewolf."
I didn't notice if anyone else was getting pissed, because I was too pissed.
At this point in my life, I finally realized that I was in fact qualified to look at these things from an adult perspective...but just because I have the ability, doesn't mean I have the desire.

[Warhorse]

Hey, funny story in one of my viewings of TMNT. One family was bringing in a couple of kids, about 6ish or 7ish, and both had toy swords and bandanas on. I was walking into the theater behind them, and as they were passing the usher, she stopped them and grabbed the toy swords (I dont think so! You'll get them back after the movie thank you very much)

Good thing she took them away. When Raph and Leo began to fight, both of those kids were on their chairs making fists in the air along with the what the scene was unfolding on the screen. Thank goodness I was near the back and they were on the floor row!

[jenna]

Yeah, what is it about kids that compells them to act out their own version of the film whilst the film is still playing. My pain in the ass niece and nephew do it. :roll:

In fact, I vaguely remember doing it myself when I was little!!!! Oh Lordie :D

[Warhorse]

Yeah, what is it about kids that compells them to act out their own version of the film whilst the film is still playing. My pain in the ass niece and nephew do it. :roll:

In fact, I vaguely remember doing it myself when I was little!!!! Oh Lordie :D

Hehe. Cause they're kids. They haven't learned how to control their emotions just yet, and sometimes when they get uber excited, they cant contain it.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Hey, funny story in one of my viewings of TMNT. One family was bringing in a couple of kids, about 6ish or 7ish, and both had toy swords and bandanas on. I was walking into the theater behind them, and as they were passing the usher, she stopped them and grabbed the toy swords (I dont think so! You'll get them back after the movie thank you very much)

Good thing she took them away. When Raph and Leo began to fight, both of those kids were on their chairs making fists in the air along with the what the scene was unfolding on the screen. Thank goodness I was near the back and they were on the floor row!

Awesomesauce :lol:

[Ninjinister]

From a personal point of view. Transformers is a disaster flick. It's going to be the action and very sick scenes (in a good way) of familiar robots tearing each other up. It's the same reason why people flock to the movies in droves to see Spider-Man, X-Men, Star Wars and Independence Day. Because of the big epic like action scenes, and some nostalgia thrown in.

When I heard of a Transformers movie being made, I wrote it off, thinking it was gonna be another cartoon. Then I saw the trailer, and I liked what I saw.

This is actually a good basis for an argument concerning how the TMNT are being handled. In that they are being treated too kiddy like, but yet they are too complex for the kiddies to grasp. They only know the blue one or the red one.

If this movie was allowed to be a PG-13 like Spider-Man, X-Men, Harry Potter or Transformers (which the official rating has yet to be released. Seems it's having a difficult time getting the desired PG-13 rating the studios want) TMNT could have been seeing a different out come.

Maybe that's the root of my problem with it. I hate almost all disaster flicks. The robot designs are appealing to me... but that's about it.

But still, my point is Transformers is getting approximately 5 times the hype of TMNT, and that's sad.

[Swany]

My friends saw the Transformers trailer and the thing getting squished.
Kev said "I thought the Transformers were good guys"
Lauren said "Swany we're so seeing that" (My friends also call me Swany)

If I do go see Transformers I'm making a T-shirt that says "TMNT kicks Transformers butt" or something simmilar....maybe I'll get lynched on the way out. I've never been interested in Transformers.

[Spitfire]

TMNT can't hit PG-13 because it's been tagged as a children's property. Transformers can do it because it hasn't had a new series to pull it into the kids market. Kids will still got see it yes but you get my point.

They blew their chance not making it PG-13 in the first place.

[Andrew NDB]

TMNT can't hit PG-13 because it's been tagged as a children's property. Transformers can do it because it hasn't had a new series to pull it into the kids market. Kids will still got see it yes but you get my point.

They blew their chance not making it PG-13 in the first place.

It may seem like that's the case, but understand that Transformers is not being helmed by a first time director/one-time video game director, but by the combined names of Steven Spielburg and Michael Bay -- responsible for some of the greatest box office hits of our time. If they take an interest in anything, Transformers, TMNT, hell, even probably My Little Pony, studios and financiers will have no problem letting them do whatever the hell they want with them, PG-13, probably even R if it floats their fancy.

[Spitfire]

Yeah that's another thing to, depends on whose making it. You get Tim Burton to do TMNT you can have a PG-13 TMNT. You get some nobody whose only directed one video game and your **** out of luck.

[Katie]

Yeah that's another thing to, depends on whose making it. You get Tim Burton to do TMNT you can have a PG-13 TMNT. You get some nobody whose only directed one video game and your **** out of luck.



hehehe who makes it. That made me think of something.

I hear word through the grapevine that M. Night Shamalan is going to be making a live action movie (or three) out of that Avatar show on Nick......that thing definitely started as a kids show....shall we wait and see what Mr. Shamalan can do with it?

TMNT can at least do better than that...right?

[Courk]

Well now I have the idea of Tim Burton + TMNT in my head.

I like Tim Burton, and I like TMNT, but the thought of the two together does not sit well with me. I do think it'd be interesting to see what he could come up with for the TMNT, but it's not something I would want to be an official TMNT venture. Can you imagine what he'd think of?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Well now I have the idea of Tim Burton + TMNT in my head.

I like Tim Burton, and I like TMNT, but the thought of the two together does not sit well with me. I do think it'd be interesting to see what he could come up with for the TMNT, but it's not something I would want to be an official TMNT venture. Can you imagine what he'd think of?

He'd replace Leo's swords with scissor hands and get Johnny Depp to play Casey Jones.

[Andrew NDB]

Well now I have the idea of Tim Burton + TMNT in my head.

I like Tim Burton, and I like TMNT, but the thought of the two together does not sit well with me. I do think it'd be interesting to see what he could come up with for the TMNT, but it's not something I would want to be an official TMNT venture. Can you imagine what he'd think of?

I love Burton and I'm sure he'd bring some much-needed grit... but in my heart I know he would make it some gothic mess.

When Burton was on board "Superman Lives" for a good year or two, here's one of his concept designs for Superman :

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/images/2006/06/tim-burton-superman.jpg

[Ava Collier]

He'd replace Leo's swords with scissor hands and get Johnny Depp to play Casey Jones.

*blink...blink...cackle* The thought of Johnny Depp as Casey makes me tingle with desire. No...not really. XD

[iris]

Every time I see the title of this thread, I want to say, "well it's probably the fact that they're turtles."

[Ninjinister]

hehehe who makes it. That made me think of something.

I hear word through the grapevine that M. Night Shamalan is going to be making a live action movie (or three) out of that Avatar show on Nick......that thing definitely started as a kids show....shall we wait and see what Mr. Shamalan can do with it?

TMNT can at least do better than that...right?

Especially since (no offense to those who like it) Avatar is basically a rip-off of about a dozen shounen anime at once... -_- What the Hell is Shamalan thinking?

If I do go see Transformers I'm making a T-shirt that says "TMNT kicks Transformers butt" or something simmilar....maybe I'll get lynched on the way out.

I most likely won't see it in theatres, but that sounds like a good idea to do if I decided to do so.

[Rooish]

Jenna, I love the fact that you were drinking tea in the theatre.

So, who has posted on the 'Drome while drunk? Show of hands.

[Spawn Guy]

I've posted on the Drome on a sugar high.


I'm more macho than Rany Savage, I know.

[Sewer Bull]

Jenna, I love the fact that you were drinking tea in the theatre.

So, who has posted on the 'Drome while drunk? Show of hands.

*hand up*

You wouldn't be able tell when that occured, tho'. So don't try explaining many of my stupid posts with that, as they were written when I was completely sober.

[Spawn Guy]

Know who was probably drunk? Most of the trolls that decided to suction themselves here like barnacles on a hump back wale.

[Warhorse]

TMNT can't hit PG-13 because it's been tagged as a children's property. Transformers can do it because it hasn't had a new series to pull it into the kids market. Kids will still got see it yes but you get my point.

They blew their chance not making it PG-13 in the first place.

When you say they, who are you exactly talking about? I'm just curious.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Most likely Spit's referring to Warner Bros. (They were the ones who set the limits, weren't they? I'm having a brain fart at the moment and I can't remember for sure).

[weredog]

I like the Transformers and I fully expect to see the Transformers movie in theatres, but I can't really understand why Transformers is getting more hype than TMNT.
TMNT started as an adult comic. Transformers started as a children's toyline. Every story, every comic, every show involving the Transformers has one primary purpose. To sell toys to children. Nothing more, nothing less. It started life as a kiddie property and it will always remain a kiddie property. Because there's no way in hell Hasbro will allow it to be anything else. Mustn't upset the kiddies and ruin sales afterall. TMNT, being a comic property first and foremost has the potential to be so much more.
And you think mutated turtles are hard for the public to emphathize with? At least turtles are living things. Transformers are glorified toasters. Machines. It's like trying to identify with a blender. Some can suspend disbelief and do just that sure, but for me it's a hell of a lot harder to care for a hunk of metal than a turtle. I can watch Transformers and enjoy it sure, but I never actually CARED for them. I didn't cry when Optimus Prime died. I laughed the first time I saw it. My friend and I sat there and MSTed it, because the concept was so absurd. He's a friggin' ROBOT for God's sake. take out the busted part replace it with a new one and voila! He should be as good as new.
I care about the Turtles. I care about their characters, I IDENTIFY with them. Raph's temper and his loyalty to his family, Mike's fun loving attitude, Donnie's nerdiness, Leo's sense of honor. There's something about each and every one of them I can identify with. Transformers has none of that. It's an interesting concept, and it'll be a hell of a movie. Great Eye candy. But ultimately that is all it'll be.

[Spawn Guy]

I like the Transformers and I fully expect to see the Transformers movie in theatres, but I can't really understand why Transformers is getting more hype than TMNT.
TMNT started as an adult comic. Transformers started as a children's toyline. Every story, every comic, every show involving the Transformers has one primary purpose. To sell toys to children. Nothing more, nothing less.
Except those written by Simon Furman.

Transformers has none of that. It's an interesting concept, and it'll be a hell of a movie. Great Eye candy. But ultimately that is all it'll be.
He's Michael Bay! He's got the powe-e-e-r! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP7FXFFywy4&mode=related&search=)

[weredog]

Bay may have the power and judging by some of the posts I've seen on Transformers boards he's gonna need it to avoid being lynched after the movie's released. Man some of those transfans are angry. Glad the TMNT don't have this problem.

[Spawn Guy]

At least not from those that managed to let go of the 80's.


"CGI!? Quick, hand me my childhood rape whistle!"

[weredog]

At least not from those that managed to let go of the 80's.


"CGI!? Quick, hand me my childhood rape whistle!"

LOL! Well to be fair the Transformers fandom has had their share of hardships. Armada had the Autobots taking orders from children and collecting Pokeformers. Nothing in TMNT has ever been that bad. Not even Venus Demilo.

[Warhorse]

Most likely Spit's referring to Warner Bros. (They were the ones who set the limits, weren't they? I'm having a brain fart at the moment and I can't remember for sure).


Yeah, that's what I am hoping.

YOu know what. The studios are screwing up everything! It's like, all of the ceo's are on some power trip, demanding this and demanding that, without a second thought of a properly done film.

[TheAnimatedSeries]

If this TF movie was cgi, the hype would be alot closer to the hype for TMNT, I think. I respect both properties about the same, but its true there is a lack of respect for the Turtles from the public that doesnt make sense.

Then again, the Tranformers are robots and robots generally are cooler than turtles.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Then again, the Tranformers are robots and robots generally are cooler than turtles.

:o Blasphemy! :lol:

[Buslady]

I'm so tired of seeing this "they're raping my childhood" crap. Get over it. THey are not gona make a movie that, made by 80's standards might cost more than using CGI...I'm no big fan of it, but it's here to stay. CGI is so much nicer thna it used to be and it make it possible to make movies we'd otherwise never get.
We wouldn't have TMNT if it wasnt for CGI...or TF...or alot of other stuff...

I am an 80s kid, I don't feel they're killing my childhood..they're revising it.

[Scandia]

In no way did they rape my childhood- in fact, I am so thrilled to see the TMNT be back!

Anyhow, when my brother first got the original TMNT toys back in 1989 or 1990 (which I played with A LOT), I remember another relative of mine saying "What an ugly thing" upon seeing them. But I was fascinated by them. And by the cartoon. And by the movies.

[Spawn Guy]

I'm so tired of seeing this "they're raping my childhood" crap. Get over it. THey are not gona make a movie that, made by 80's standards might cost more than using CGI...I'm no big fan of it, but it's here to stay. CGI is so much nicer thna it used to be and it make it possible to make movies we'd otherwise never get.
We wouldn't have TMNT if it wasnt for CGI...or TF...or alot of other stuff...

I am an 80s kid, I don't feel they're killing my childhood..they're revising it.

Another peev: These peole aren't children anymore. They act like it sure, but who the hell said anything made for kids in the 21st century was made for children from the 80's?

[Swany]

Then again, the Tranformers are robots and robots generally are cooler than turtles.

Robots may be cool, but these guys are mutant ninja turtles.
And thats just awesome.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I like the Transformers and I fully expect to see the Transformers movie in theatres, but I can't really understand why Transformers is getting more hype than TMNT.

Becasue it's live action. If it was animated, it would be different.


TMNT started as an adult comic. Transformers started as a children's toyline. Every story, every comic, every show involving the Transformers has one primary purpose. To sell toys to children. Nothing more, nothing less. It started life as a kiddie property and it will always remain a kiddie property. Because there's no way in hell Hasbro will allow it to be anything else. Mustn't upset the kiddies and ruin sales afterall. TMNT, being a comic property first and foremost has the potential to be so much more.

No argument here.

And you think mutated turtles are hard for the public to emphathize with? At least turtles are living things. Transformers are glorified toasters. Machines. It's like trying to identify with a blender. Some can suspend disbelief and do just that sure, but for me it's a hell of a lot harder to care for a hunk of metal than a turtle. I can watch Transformers and enjoy it sure, but I never actually CARED for them. I didn't cry when Optimus Prime died. I laughed the first time I saw it. My friend and I sat there and MSTed it, because the concept was so absurd. He's a friggin' ROBOT for God's sake. take out the busted part replace it with a new one and voila! He should be as good as new.


Like I said befr, you don't have to identify with a character to like them, and people like them simply because they're giant robots that shoot things. But still, theres no depth to any of the charcters. They've always been one dimensional, and since there were so many of them, alot of them were just killed or written off tonly to be replaced with more one dimensional characters.

What I didn't get about the movie is, why didn't they just have the Junkions rebuidld all the dead autobots, why just Ultra Magnus? That made absolutley no sense.

[QUUTE] care about the Turtles. I care about their characters, I IDENTIFY with them. Raph's temper and his loyalty to his family, Mike's fun loving attitude, Donnie's nerdiness, Leo's sense of honor. There's something about each and every one of them I can identify with. Transformers has none of that. It's an interesting concept, and it'll be a hell of a movie. Great Eye candy. But ultimately that is all it'll be.[/QUOTE]

People don't care about depth anymore, especially in a sumer movie. As long as **** is geting blown up, the public will be happy.

But you'e right, transformers, while I do like it, is nothing but eye candy.

[iris]

It's like trying to identify with a blender.
:lol:

Some can suspend disbelief and do just that sure, but for me it's a hell of a lot harder to care for a hunk of metal than a turtle. I can watch Transformers and enjoy it sure, but I never actually CARED for them. I didn't cry when Optimus Prime died. I laughed the first time I saw it. My friend and I sat there and MSTed it, because the concept was so absurd. He's a friggin' ROBOT for God's sake. take out the busted part replace it with a new one and voila! He should be as good as new.I tend to agree with that, but it is possible to empathize with a glorified toaster. Case and point: that lamp ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQXQGaasUg). The effect does wear off pretty quick though (it only worked the first time for me).

I like robots well enough... but Transformers bored the hell outta me as a kid and I don't imagine that changing with the upcoming flick.

The Turtles were and are much more fun.

[jenna]

I'm so tired of seeing this "they're raping my childhood" crap. Get over it. THey are not gona make a movie that, made by 80's standards might cost more than using CGI...I'm no big fan of it, but it's here to stay. CGI is so much nicer thna it used to be and it make it possible to make movies we'd otherwise never get.
We wouldn't have TMNT if it wasnt for CGI...or TF...or alot of other stuff...

I am an 80s kid, I don't feel they're killing my childhood..they're revising it.

You said it! I love the CGI turtles - they are my favourite to date but totally agree with everything else you say here.

[jenna]

Jenna, I love the fact that you were drinking tea in the theatre.

So, who has posted on the 'Drome while drunk? Show of hands.

I know, I hate to conform to stereotypes but I do love my tea!!! Cinemas here always have tea. Makes me happy :D

And I'm glad to know there are others out there who have wondered in late at night bladdered and thought in a haze to themselves: "I know what would be a really good idea... going on the Technodrome!!!" :lol: I do promise not to try and make a habit of it, though.

[Warhorse]

I know, I hate to conform to stereotypes but I do love my tea!!! Cinemas here always have tea. Makes me happy :D

And I'm glad to know there are others out there who have wondered in late at night bladdered and thought in a haze to themselves: "I know what would be a really good idea... going on the Technodrome!!!" :lol: I do promise not to try and make a habit of it, though.

So, is this tea the ice tea type? Flavored (I really like Snapple's Peach Tea) or is this real hot tea in a china cup?

Just curious?

But, I have several movie theaters in my area, called the Muvico Premier, and there are theaters that have formal dining in front of a movie screen. You can chow down on a steak and sip some beer while watching a film!:D

[jenna]

So, is this tea the ice tea type? Flavored (I really like Snapple's Peach Tea) or is this real hot tea in a china cup?

Just curious?



No no, nothing classy like that ;) We are talking good British cuppas here - well actually I'm rather partial to Lady Gray, which is very similar to Earl Gray with a hint of cirus. :D Normally at cinemas it's just bog-standard builder tea.

But, I have several movie theaters in my area, called the Muvico Premier, and there are theaters that have formal dining in front of a movie screen. You can chow down on a steak and sip some beer while watching a film!:D

Oh my God this is gonna sound weird, but I have a recurring dream about a large multi-screen cinema in an American style diner (we call them American style diners here!!) just like you describe, although I have never seen anything like it in my life - it's one of those dreams I have really frequently. In the dream I'm always trying to find a seat where I can see the film, but there's always some kid gobbling down food and crying in the way!

That sounds cool though.

[Spawn Guy]

And when you try to go to the bathroom, there's, like, no little girls room!

[Swany]

Ufft, I wish my cinema did tea (not that I like tea, but once you have tea you get coffee, dont like coffee, but once you have coffee, you get HOT CHOCOLATE)

Meh, but still, at cinemas I've been at your lucky if you can get Irn Bru. National beverage indeed.

And to get back on topic I will once again say. I do not find the TMNT unapealling. I love the uniqueness of the show/comics. (Its like they put a bunch of words in a hat and picked at random :lol:) but mostly I love their bond and closeness as a family. I can relate to that through my own family and friends.

I especially love Splinter in the 2K3 series, he really loves his sons.

[Warhorse]

No no, nothing classy like that ;) We are talking good British cuppas here - well actually I'm rather partial to Lady Gray, which is very similar to Earl Gray with a hint of cirus. :D Normally at cinemas it's just bog-standard builder tea.



Oh my God this is gonna sound weird, but I have a recurring dream about a large multi-screen cinema in an American style diner (we call them American style diners here!!) just like you describe, although I have never seen anything like it in my life - it's one of those dreams I have really frequently. In the dream I'm always trying to find a seat where I can see the film, but there's always some kid gobbling down food and crying in the way!

That sounds cool though.


Funny, how you have dreams, and you find out that those dreams exist. I had a weird dream of going to the moutains, and not too long after that, I was in the Georgia Mountains, and everything was in place like my dream. Almost like dejavu.

But hey, you ever come to the States, you know where to go now! (Though the only one I've been to that had the dining was in Palm Beach, Florida. We also have a nice drive in theater too!:D

PS: What is a Britishe Cuppas?:ohwell:

[Spawn Guy]

Cup of tea luv, tupppence and happeny, I don't hav think, some mutthers do av 'em, what?

[Warhorse]

Cup of tea luv, tupppence and happeny, I don't hav think, some mutthers do av 'em, what?

What?:o I have no clue what you are trying to say now!

[Spawn Guy]

And that's the way I like it.

Uh huh, uh huh.

She means a cup of tea.

[Swany]

What?:o I have no clue what you are trying to say now!

Oh lordy, dont encourage him. He'll start using rhyming slang soon.
Speaking of which. I'm kinda cream crackered myself.

;)

[Spawn Guy]

Oh lordy, dont encourage him. He'll start using rhyming slang soon.


That a challenge?

[Swany]

That a challenge?

mmmmmight be.

[Rooish]

:lol:

I tend to agree with that, but it is possible to empathize with a glorified toaster. Case and point: that lamp ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQXQGaasUg). The effect does wear off pretty quick though (it only worked the first time for me).

Wow, that hurt my heart. ;)

[jenna]

Ufft, I wish my cinema did tea (not that I like tea, but once you have tea you get coffee, dont like coffee, but once you have coffee, you get HOT CHOCOLATE)


:o You don't get hot drinks at cinemas?? I thought you would being in Glasgow. We get hot chocolate too!!

Cup of tea luv, tupppence and happeny, I don't hav think, some mutthers do av 'em, what?

:lol: Yeah... Warhorse, Spawn Guy just about covered it. :lol: although we don't all talk like Frank Spencer. ;)

[Spawn Guy]

Cor, rodger ye boogley missus, apples and pairs, luv and duck and not hav, bloody ell, ello, ello, ello guv, bootle yer tremps for a fiver, me old son.

[Warhorse]

Who is Frank Spencer?

[LordAzrim]

I have no idea how this thread went so horribly off topic. xD. Still, it is good to find a place with such a light atmosphere. I believe that it really is their comic nature that makes them less "appealing.' You hit it right on the nail when you said that people don't know what they want from the TMNT. The problem is that adults feel like they have to leave their childhood behind. the comical nature and the fact that the TMNT are that "80s cartoon" makes adults feel like they should leave it behind along with the rest of their childhood. However, when someone makes the TMNT more mature, the adults feel like they're going to lose their childhood along with the TMNT.
I loved the TMNT when I was little. The reasons are numerous. As I grew older, I fell for them all over again. It's not just one of the turtles that many can relate to, it's all.

1. Leonardo does represent that constant drive for perfection. I've always been able to relate with his constant desire to be the best. His training makes him incredibly skilled, something that I always admired.Still, he's harder on himself than all of the others. His self introspection leads to his rampant perfectionism.
2. Raphael could very well be the rebel's idol. I always looked up to the fact that he did what he thought was right, regardless of anything else. His own sense of justice often superceded the law. Raph is actually a lot like Leonardo. He places a huge burden on his own shoulders, believing that he alone should be enough to protect those he cares about. He believes that people should just get up and do things rather than wasting time talking about it. He can be very self righteous, which leads him to make a lot of rash decisions.
3. Michealangelo is definately the carefree type who just loves to have fun. He does what I wish I could. He flaunts responsibility and just enjoys life. Not to say that he can't be depended on, but he does have a way of making light of any situation. Still, he does tend to make light of rather serious situations, which tends to backfire.
4. Donatello represents that curious intellectual in all of us. His ingenious devices and his mastery of science always impressed me. Donatello also showed that one can definately be nerdy and awesome at the same time. Still, Donatello often gets so engrossed in his work that he forgets what's going on in the outside world.

All of the turtles have things that I can really identify to. What I find so interesting is that their flaws help us to identify with them as much as their strengths. The turtles always appealed to me more than Superman, Spider-man, and even Batman ever could.

[jenna]

Who is Frank Spencer?

Michael Crawford's character in the Brit comedy "Some Mothers do 'ave 'em" it was really popular in the 1980s. He talked with a very distinctive accent which was really funny. I don't know how much of British comedy makes it across the shores to you, but in general it's very rare to find a truly good one. (I prefer to watch american comedies) but this was one of the good ones.

Sorry for wandering so far off topic....

[Spawn Guy]

All of the turtles have things that I can really identify to. What I find so interesting is that their flaws help us to identify with them as much as their strengths. The turtles always appealed to me more than Superman, Spider-man, and even Batman ever could.

All of whom have flaws as well, just for the record.

[Andrew NDB]

I have no idea how this thread went so horribly off topic. xD. Still, it is good to find a place with such a light atmosphere. I believe that it really is their comic nature that makes them less "appealing.' You hit it right on the nail when you said that people don't know what they want from the TMNT. The problem is that adults feel like they have to leave their childhood behind. the comical nature and the fact that the TMNT are that "80s cartoon" makes adults feel like they should leave it behind along with the rest of their childhood. However, when someone makes the TMNT more mature, the adults feel like they're going to lose their childhood along with the TMNT.

This would be true if the TMNT had began with the original cartoon. The trouble, however, with this reasoning is that the TMNT never began with the original cartoon... they began with the Mirage comics, which was quite adult, and then subsequently became kiddified in spinoff universes and popularized in toy lines and what-have-you. To make the TMNT "more mature" in popular media is just to bring them closer to what they were to begin with and always intended.

[Scandia]

LordAzrim- and the four Turtles have those personalities in all their incarnations. However, though Raphael can be a "rebel's idol", the truth is that he is my least favorite even though I am rebellious in some bizarre ways. I am also intellectual, perfectionistic (in some ways- but definitely very hard on myself), and my sense of humor is very much on the goofy side and not sarcastic at all.

Though the character designs of the new TMNT cartoon did not appeal to me at first, in no way do I feel or think that its being much more faithful to the comic than the OT is ending my childhood. I can appreciate both cartoons on both levels. I just have issues with the lack of pupils in the NT ;)

[jenna]

Though the character designs of the new TMNT cartoon did not appeal to me at first, in no way do I feel or think that its being much more faithful to the comic than the OT is ending my childhood. I can appreciate both cartoons on both levels. I just have issues with the lack of pupils in the NT ;)

Me too. It took me ages to accept the new toon because of the eyes. Now I see past that and love the new toon, but it was hard going for a while! I just find characters harder to relate to if you can't look in their eyes.

[Warhorse]

Me too. It took me ages to accept the new toon because of the eyes. Now I see past that and love the new toon, but it was hard going for a while! I just find characters harder to relate to if you can't look in their eyes.

But hey, you have got to love the Toddler Turtles That is one of my favorite parts that has been incorporated into the NT!

[Ava Collier]

But hey, you have got to love the Toddler Turtles That is one of my favorite parts that has been incorporated into the NT!

The Toddler Turtles are the only action figures I own now. I need to get them a Master Splinter. *sagenod*

The no-pupils thing doesn't bother me. A ninja is only naked when showing his true face, and emotions. ^_^'

[bullet]

though Raphael can be a "rebel's idol", the truth is that he is my least favorite even though I am rebellious in some bizarre ways. I am also intellectual, perfectionistic (in some ways- but definitely very hard on myself), and my sense of humor is very much on the goofy side and not sarcastic at all.

wow, first time i've seen someone say exactly how i feel. well, close, anyway.

raph is the one i probably identify with the most, that, or mikey. but raph has always been the one that i've liked the least. i believe people tend to see their faults exaggerated in others, which is how i feel about raph a lot of the time. doesn't mean i hate him as a character, he's just least liked.

[jenna]

I would say I identified with at least an aspect of all the turtles.

Mike - I have his sense of fun and desire to always be partying and also his sense of drama
Raph - I have his temper although I am in no way violent with it - just fiery
Leo - I have his sensibility
Don - I have his logic and gentleness (although unfortunately not his mind!)

Although, having said that I don't love the turtles because I can relate to them - in fact there is a lot about them that I don't relate to - but moreover because I find them absolutely fascinating as a subject and as characters.