TMNT What If?

[VaughnMichael]

I've been doing some thinking about allot of TMNT related storys as of late.
Now what if Splinter's Vendetta against Saki was all a misguided Lie!
What if he didn't really understand everything that was going on and made the turtles think they where fighting and killing in the name of Yoshi and honor but what if it was all just one big miss guided lie or mistake?
What if Yoshi was really the evil one and Saki was the good one?
What if instead of Yoshi having Splinter as a Pet what if Saki did?
Gives you really something to think about.

[Spitfire]

That would be a great twist but I think the way Saki acts sort of proves Yoshi was the good guy or at least the lesser of two evils. Now if Saki's brother was the good guy and Yoshi was evil that would be a good way to do it, then Saki could have been a crime lord who wanted to avenge his brothers death even if he wasn't evil.

[Warhorse]

Would be the making of one great twist! I'd be all for such a story! Can you imagine the character development that would ensue with the Turtles after such a discovery?

[Jester]

Our whole life has been....a lie.

I imagine that it'd be hardest for Leonardo if it was in the vol 4 universe, where Splinter was dead and couldn't answer his questions.

But...in the 2k3 universe, I think Splinter whould have trouble reconciling that his master was indeed evil, since he cared for me...it'd be very Karai-esque.

[VaughnMichael]

Our whole life has been....a lie.
I really think it would be awsome and an interesting story even if it's really sad I think Leonardo would go crazy and start questioning everything.

[Jester]

I wanna write it...If I could write a story that well.

[VaughnMichael]

I wanna write it...If I could write a story that well.
well Thanks Jester & Warhorse I'm glad you like the idea :)
*kicks Assfire*

[Jester]

Well TLS proves it couldn't possibly happen in that universe. But in the comics it's possible. Surprised Image never touched on it.
I know...I kinda mean in a world where Splinter's still alive and not "Yoshi's a Utrom Guardian who is tasked with defending against the Utrom Shredder."

Edit: Weird! How'd this post show before the one I'm replying to?

[Spitfire]

But...in the 2k3 universe, I think Splinter whould have trouble reconciling that his master was indeed evil, since he cared for me...it'd be very Karai-esque.

Well TLS proves it couldn't possibly happen in that universe. But in the comics it's possible, I'd love if that was what Laird was sitting on. A way to pull that off. Maybe that's who this Hamato Yoshi character is.

Surprised Image never touched on it.

*kicks Assfire*
Just don't kick my bum, I had Mexican food for lunch and I'll fart a fire so hot out of my ass it'll melt your feet off.

[triplexxx]

Well it'd be excellent for fanfiction, but it's for sure they'll never do something like this on TV, although they did touch upon the concept of Splinter betraying them and turning evil in that Reality Check.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

That would be a cool arc to see. Something like that would no doubt put the Turtles back on the radar.

[VaughnMichael]

Well TLS proves it couldn't possibly happen in that universe. But in the comics it's possible, I'd love if that was what Laird was sitting on. A way to pull that off. Maybe that's who this Hamato Yoshi character is.

Surprised Image never touched on it.


Just don't kick my bum, I had Mexican food for lunch and I'll fart a fire so hot out of my ass it'll melt your feet off.
eeep! I like having my feet!
And I agree when I thought of the idea I was more thinking of the comics than the cartoon I can't say I really honestly think about the cartoon that much when the comics are so much better.
It would really make things crazy now at this point in volume 4 is they realized that splinter infact this entire time had no clue and thats exactly what Hamoto Saki is going to tell leonardo!! oh wow I should send this idea into peter! lol perhaps I could clear up his writters block.

[Jester]

One wonders if that's why there's Hamato Saki (or is it Oroku Yoshi) in vol 4.
Blast you Le' Peu....you beat me to it...:P

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

One wonders if that's why there's Hamato Saki (or is it Oroku Yoshi) in vol 4.

I believe it's Oroku Yoshi. But I really can't wait to see where they're going with this character.

[VaughnMichael]

That would be a cool arc to see. Something like that would no doubt put the Turtles back on the radar.
Damn thanks man! :)
One wonders if that's why there's Hamato Saki (or is it Oroku Yoshi) in vol 4.
Blast you Le' Peu....you beat me to it...:P
ahaha!

[Spitfire]

Wouldn't it be totally nuts if Saki and Yoshi turned out to be the same person*By this I mean he had a split personality*? Now obviously that wouldn't work but it would be pretty damn cool. Like when Yoshi dies it's really just the Saki half of his personality taking over. Imagine Leo finding out he killed Yoshi.

Maybe he killed himself. Splinter was a rat and at this time I doubt he had a very big memory. His clouded thoughts would be great.

Wow you got ideas flowing! What if Renet showed the TMNT what really happened! And they find out it's a lie that way? That would be awesome.

[VaughnMichael]

I believe it's Oroku Yoshi. But I really can't wait to see where they're going with this character.
oh my bad pretty much the same thing but I think it would be awsome if he told Leo what I just brought up I'll tell you know it would bring me back to the comics 100% me not enjoying the art or not I have been enjoying the story line thus far but I think something like this would only push the tmnt into something off the meter.
Wouldn't it be totally nuts if Saki and Yoshi turned out to be the same person? Now obviously that wouldn't work but it would be pretty damn cool.

Maybe he killed himself. Splinter was a rat and at this time I doubt he had a very big memory. His clouded thoughts would be great.

Wow you got ideas flowing! What if Renet showed the TMNT what really happened! And they find out it's a lie that way? That would be awesome.
This is exactly what I was thinking how Does Splinter know all of this for a fact he was a simple rat back then his memories could be foggy and not 100% accurate.

[Jester]

Renet...there's the spring board...I was wondering how to introduce the story. I was thinking Leonardo'd find an old newspaper.

[VaughnMichael]

Renet...there's the spring board...I was wondering how to introduce the story. I was thinking Leonardo'd find an old newspaper.
I don't know I think having Oroku Yoshi Tell Leonardo the truth and then Leonardo running back to tell everyone else about this mystical place he went to and had come across this Oroku Yoshi guy and tell them what he told Leo would make everyone think he's crazy and it would really tick Leo off It would set up for something really great and honestly not make me dislike them having the battle nexus in the comics.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I would like to see a what if story that shows what would happen if the Turtles were turned into humans for a day. Liek that episode of the old toon Splinter No More, only this time form a teenagers point of view.

Also, going back to Putrescent's idea, I really wish Mirage would do a Tales of Shredder miniseries, something that shows Saki's rise to become the Shredder after Nagi died. It should culminate with Saki's fight with the Turtles from issue 1.

[Spitfire]

The idea of Saki and Yoshi being the same guy really gets me. It would make sense too. And like I said Leo finding out he killed Yoshi would be a pretty big hammer down on his heart.

Plus with Splinter dead like you guys said they would never know if Splinter knew all along or if he never knew because he was still an animal.

[Jester]

Ok here's what I thought would make a good story:

The Oroku family is very well to-do. Oroku Nagi falls in love with a woman, Tang Shen, who secretly loves Hamato Yoshi. Together Yoshi and Shen conspire for her to marry Nagi and later the 2 would kill him and the lovers would flee with Nagi's wealth. Little did they expect Nagi's young brother, Saki, to witness the murder. Yoshi tries to kill him but the young child escapes, and the lovers agree to flee to America to avoid the athorities finding out that they had killed the promenant Oroku Nagi.

Well, what do you think?

[VaughnMichael]

Also, going back to Putrescent's idea, I really wish Mirage would do a Tales of Shredder miniseries, something that shows Saki's rise to become the Shredder after Nagi died. It should culminate with Saki's fight with the Turtles from issue 1.
Thats actully a really good idea.
Ok here's what I thought would make a good story:

The Oroku family is very well to-do. Oroku Nagi falls in love with a woman, Tang Shen, who secretly loves Hamato Yoshi. Together Yoshi and Shen conspire for her to marry Nagi and later the 2 would kill him and the lovers would flee with Nagi's wealth. Little did they expect Nagi's young brother, Saki, to witness the murder. Yoshi tries to kill him but the young child escapes, and the lovers agree to flee to America to avoid the athorities finding out that they had killed the promenant Oroku Nagi.

Well, what do you think?
I'd say I'm a bit confused and I'd say we're all on to something here but of course some people may say we're all just on something lol:lol:

[Jester]

I know I am....it's called Dr. Pepper.

You're seriously lost by my story Putrescent?

[VaughnMichael]

I know I am....it's called Dr. Pepper.

You're seriously lost by my story Putrescent?
mmm dr. pooper haha
and yeah slightly I get it and slightly I don't but only slightly but it's also slightly kinda raph.:lol:

[Time Mistress]

A Tales of Shredder series would be awesome!

I don't like the idea of evil Yoshi as a retcon, but I do love the idea for a alternate universe or fanfic tale. If anyone write one please let me know so I can read it.

Overall, the cycle of revenge is more prominant in Mirage than one of justice, even though the bad guys derseve what they get. Nagi beats Shen. Yoshi kills Nagi. Saki kills Yoshi and Shen. Turtles "kill" Saki. The Foot try to kill the Turtles. Karai tries to make peace. The Foot kill Karai's daughter as a warning not to make peace. Karai propositions the Turtles kill the Elite, they do. And finally the clan war is over, for now. But it could easily descent into war again at any time.

Pimiko (Shredder's daughter) tried to start the cycle of killing again in Vol. 3 by going after the Turtles. I haven't read Image. How/Why did Raph take over as Shredder? Did he go bad for a while? Was he trying to bring some kind of peace/truce to the Hamato/Turlte and Oruku/Foot clans?

Another question is did Saki know about how bad his brother was and that Nagi beat Shen which is why Yoshi killed him. If Saki had known why, could there have been the posibility for forgiveness? Or do reasons not matter to a crime lord.

[Sewer Bull]

This thread reminds me of that Splinter's profile on TMNTDissected - and the hypothesis that OT Hamato Yoshi/Splinter could have been a lot more mischievous than we all think.

Seriously... being thrown out of the Foot Clan just because of having his hood nailed to the wall with a knife? And then being accused of a murderous attempt because of that? And then his fleeing to the US and hiding in the NYC sewers, despite allegedly being innocent? Instead of fighting for his good name? Seriously, that doesn't make sense at all. Even the fact he moved to the NYC, not to a lot closer LA.

The old rodent must have hidden a lot from his past, even in the old toon.

[Scandia]

Now what if Splinter's Vendetta against Saki was all a misguided Lie!

Poor Turtles. But they would still be able to forge their own paths- and possibly forgive Splinter.

What if he didn't really understand everything that was going on and made the turtles think they where fighting and killing in the name of Yoshi and honor but what if it was all just one big miss guided lie or mistake?

Even if it started out as a misguided lie, the Turtles and Splinter can still use their skills for good.

What if Yoshi was really the evil one and Saki was the good one?

Now that would be a humongous plot twist. But does there always have to be a good one and an evil one? In many Japanese manga and anime, there are simply two sides to the story. Two conflicting desires and motivations. No clear cut hero or villain. Magic Knight Rayearth is a good example. And Zagato's costume even kinda looks like Shredder's.

What if instead of Yoshi having Splinter as a Pet what if Saki did?

I wonder if Saki was simply out for revenge, or if he always had evil tendencies and had always been up to no good. If this were the case, then Splinter either would have copied his nefarious tendencies OR realized that what Saki was doing was wrong and wanted to correct his mistakes.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Shredder lied to the Punk Frogs, telling them that he was a good guy and the TMNT were the bad guys. The Punk Frogs was his idea to do the same as Splitner did with the TMNT, but teaching them to be bad guys instead. This is one of the stories closest to this theme. It would have been more interesting if the Punk Frogs at least worked with Shredder for some episodes more before changing side.

[odupianist]

You're seriously lost by my story Putrescent?

I get it lol.

I like the idea of Saki raising the TMNT instead of Splinter. Could be interesting. Or here's one for ya. What if every thing had happened but there was no Utroms. No turtles mutating. How would that have affected Shredder and his business?

[VaughnMichael]

Wow ok to make things even more crazy and to make thing go even more with my idea Splinter just admited in issue #34 of tales of the tmnt vol.2 that he may have missed things being a pet rat back then and the the mutant he is now.
I also just thought of something else that would tie my idea in to the story even more now.
That image of a dead and bloody Splinter at the hands of one of the turtles (donallo?) in tmnt vol.2
It all could happen like this Leonardo learns at the battle nexus that what Splinter knew was not the full truth leonardo come back telling the others they don't believe him this sends leonardo over the deep end.
As we know before Donatello snipped something from splinters body before he was set a flame.
Donatello could want the true answeres and having this part of Splinter decides to tell his brothers which he will struggle with telling them about.
After some heated discussions they decide to go forth with Donatellos idea of trying to clone Splinter to get to the bottom of this news.
I could see Raphael & Michaelangelo being totally against the idea I believe Leonardo would be also but he would only go forth with the idea only to prove to the others what he learned and that everything he saw and was told in the nexus was the truth.
Of course after months of tests Donatello finally clones Splinter of course everything goes completly wrong and this creature is not the Master they love and respect but contains the being of something evil (a demon?)
This could lead to the scene from volume 2 where we see the bloody splinter at the hands of one of the turtles.
Just thought I'd add a few more of my thoughts.:D

[Jester]

Man....trippy. If I understood it all anyway....:p

[VaughnMichael]

Man....trippy. If I understood it all anyway....:p
oh your kidding right? lol sorry I was typing my thoughts I tend to just sream everything along when I type like that.
If you want me to explain anything I can :)

[The Shelf]

Wow ok to make things even more crazy and to make thing go even more with my idea Splinter just admited in issue #34 of tales of the tmnt vol.2 that he may have missed things being a pet rat back then and the the mutant he is now.
I also just thought of something else that would tie my idea in to the story even more now.
That image of a dead and bloody Splinter at the hands of one of the turtles (donallo?) in tmnt vol.2
It all could happen like this Leonardo learns at the battle nexus that what Splinter knew was not the full truth leonardo come back telling the others they don't believe him this sends leonardo over the deep end.
As we know before Donatello snipped something from splinters body before he was set a flame.
Donatello could want the true answeres and having this part of Splinter decides to tell his brothers which he will struggle with telling them about.
After some heated discussions they decide to go forth with Donatellos idea of trying to clone Splinter to get to the bottom of this news.
I could see Raphael & Michaelangelo being totally against the idea I believe Leonardo would be also but he would only go forth with the idea only to prove to the others what he learned and that everything he saw and was told in the nexus was the truth.
Of course after months of tests Donatello finally clones Splinter of course everything goes completly wrong and this creature is not the Master they love and respect but contains the being of something evil (a demon?)
This could lead to the scene from volume 2 where we see the bloody splinter at the hands of one of the turtles.
Just thought I'd add a few more of my thoughts.:D

Dude... That makes sense, and I wouldn't mind it if they used that to fulfill that dream and the snipping Don took from Splinter. But... I would hate it so much if Splinter screwed up that badly and Shredder ended up being the righteous one. That could very well ruin the turtles for me if that was the case. That's like Sins Past where Gwen's good character got ruined, but for Splinter and Yoshi instead. Retcons are evil, folks... Don't give in!

[Andrew NDB]

I'd give my left... body part to see a "Tales of Oroku Saki" mini-series. Absolutely.

Though I wrote it the better part of a decade ago, I wrote a little fanfic about a possible Saki backstory (Mirage universe), his rise to power and the like as well as how/why he became the Shredder framed with sequences of an old Leonardo meeting who he thinks is Saki again in the 2050s.

http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/decadence.html