Fans on one turtle genrally dislike another turtle?

[Sage Ninja]

I wonder, does any one here think that depending on which turtle you like or favor you automatically dislike or don't care for another turte?

just by being on these message boards for the last two years as well as browsing through other turtle forums I sort of noticed a pattern that people who like Raphael dislike or sort of disfavor Leonardo and Michaelangelo and clash with their fans. And people who like Leonardo dislike or don't favor Raphael and some times Michaelangelo as well.

I've also noticed that people who like Michaelangelo don;t seem to overly fond of Raphael and sometimes Leoanrdo and Dontello as well. Dontello fans seem to dislike Raphael and Michaelangelo but for the most part seem to be the most neutral.

Has any one else noticed this? Why do you think this is? Do you think people who are fans of one turtle automatically dislike one turtle in particular. I've just noticed that some fans of a certain turtle are most critical of another turtle. Does any one else agree?

[Masked Ninja]

I have noticed that a lot of Raphael fans seem to have a special dislike of Leonardo's personality type (probably because many of them favor Raph because they relate with him, and therefore can fully understand/sympathize with Raph's annoyances with his bro in blue), and vice versa. I haven't noticed much of a trend with Donatello or Michelangelo fans though... that's interesting.

Only way I can think of to test it is to try a poll like this:

If You Had to Choose... Which is Your Favorite/Least Favorite Turtle?
1) Leo/Raph
2) Leo/Mike
3) Leo/Don
4) Raph/Leo
5) Raph/Mike
6) Raph/Don
7) Mike/Leo
8.) Mike/Raph
9) Mike/Don
10) Don/Leo
11) Don/Raph
12) Don/Mike

Hm, that'd be something. Can these forums have a poll with that many choices? :tpizza:

[Buslady]

As most know I'm a huge Raph nut; I love ALL of them but depending on the version, Mike's my least favorite simply cos he's annoying. But OTOH I also like him cos he keeps Raph's spirits high.

[Sunshine]

My favorite is Raph with Mikey as a VERY close second but my least favorite is Leo. So... maybe? ^_^'

[Ava Collier]

Whoa...I meant to post before, and I got kinda caught up in my painting there.
I don't really have a favorite, but I'm told I'm a bit like Raphael...
and I'm a Pisces, which means I don't get on well with Leos :P
Personally, I've never clashed with other fans on this though...unless my husband counts. Don and Leo are his favorites, and we argued our way out of the theater over that fight! :lol:

[Scandia]

My favorite is Leonardo and my least favorite is Raphael. But it was not an automatic dislike of Raphael. And I don't completely hate him either. He's just my least favorite Turtle. And there IS a rivalry between Leonardo and Raphael- even though I think that all four Turtles did vie for leadership once and Michelangelo and Donatello simply were eliminated quicker than Raph.

I'm very scientific and brainy just like Donnie. But it's not the first time I have liked the heroic leader better than the scientist cough Voltron cough.

In conclusion, I do not think that a dislike of a second Turtle simply because you prefer one Turtle would be automatic in any way. I'm pretty sure there are Leo fans out there whose least favorite is Mikey or Donnie for some reason or another.

[jenna]

Sage, whilst I'm not sure that it is a overall trend, I think there is some truth in what you say: Personally, my favourite is Raphael, but I love them all and don't really favour any of the other three over each other. However, my sister loves Michelangelo, but has little sympathy for Raphael. Maybe it's to do with our personalities? My sister loves Mike because he is fun loving and relaxed - like she is. She dislikes Raph because she has little patience for people who are angsty or depressive. She says he won't help himself.

[Garou]

and I'm a Pisces, which means I don't get on well with Leos :P


Scary :ohwell: that goes for me too...

But my fave would be Raph. He's always been, ever since I was a kid and watched it back in 1990. But there were times where I wasn't so sure that Raph was my favorite - because I really liked Leo.

It could be because my big sister was a true Leo type when she was younger... hmm....

I honestly don't have a least favorite after watching 2k3. They're all important characters and I like them all - but I'll say that I thought Mikey was just too annoying in the old toon for my taste.

The worst part is, I'm beginning to act and sound more and more like NT Raph over the years - even my mom told me that :roll:

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

The only turtle I dislike is Venus DeMilo, because she seemed like a blatant attempt at getting a Power Rangers like team going with a female character that was intended to be the "token girl" of the team or something. If they wanted a strong female character, I think they could have just had an April O'Neil that learned some martial arts moves from the turtles over the years.

Other than that, while Raphael is my current favorite, I still like everyone else. Michelangelo was my old favorite as a kid, because as a kid everyone idolizes the fun loving guy. :)

[Drtooth]

I am a fan of both Mike and Raph. But as the years went on, I realised something. While I would have to categorize one of them as my least favorite, I just can't bring myself to do it.

I have to actually say Leonardo's my fourth favorite Turtle. (Don being my third). Though to be fair, my actual least favorite turtle is Venus. She's the only one I hate.

Frankly I love ALL 4 turtles. Their contrasting personalities are what make the group dynamic so special. Leo's serious, straight forwardness helps set the rhythem and give them a guide of how to act, Raph's cynisism and anger gives them a dangerous edge, Mike's clowning nature gives them the heart of a child, and Don's analitical thinking punches it all together, while crafting gadgets that help them on their missions.

[triplexxx]

Suppose with some fans this is the case and with some fans it isn't. Like for one may or may not mean a dislike for another.
I think it more depends on which turtle personalities a fan can relate to, personally. Though the truth is: there are aspects from every turtle's personality that are generally common for a majority of people if they take the time to figure it out.
As I've said, I know I can relate to every turtle in some way. This is why I always love every TMNT equally and don't have a favorite, period.

[Sonic x 20]

My favorite turtle is Mikey, but I've always loved the turtles equally as well. I never had a least favorite one, so everyone of them is cool with me. 8) 8)

[eelayne]

I often realize that Leonardo fans like Raphael least and vice versa. Why? I have fallen for Raphael when I was 9 years old and still today I love him most, but that doesn't mean I dislike Leo. In the 2003 series the whole concentration on Leo became a bit too much for me, but nevertheless I don't like him less then the others. It's just Raph who's 'special' for me.

[Mr. Stay Puft]

Hands down, Mikey's my favorite in all versions. The order afterwards depends on which version.

OT and movies 1-3:
Mike
Don
Raph
Leo

2K3:
Mike
Raph
Don
Leo

CGI Movie:
Mike
Raph
Leo
Don

[Masked Ninja]

I agree with Garou - while before the 2k3 series I had a favorite (Leonardo), I've since learned to appreciate each of the four... each is absolutely kickawesome for certain reasons, and irritating for others. So I go through phases. Don was high up for a while, then after the movie I adored Leo and Raph, and sometimes I need me some good Mikey.

And of course having one turtle as your favorite doesn't dictate who you "should" dislike. I just noticed that Raph fans have a trend of disliking Leo. (I can see easily how they could be annoyed with Michelangelo, too). Something that makes me wonder, though, is whose fans are most likely to dislike Donatello? Though he doesn't often win "favorite Turtle" polls, I don't see a lot of Donny hate.

...Unless it's one of the incarnations (like TNM) where he's full of himself. That gets annoying pretty fast. :tpizza:

[Spitfire]

Don is my favorite by far. My least is Leo because he's an annoying self important prick in the comics and in the old toon. In the new toon I started to respect him more then I ever did but he's still a prick to me.

[SassyGal]

Don is my favorite by far. My least is Leo because he's an annoying self important prick in the comics and in the old toon. In the new toon I started to respect him more then I ever did but he's still a prick to me.

I agree with you Spitfire. I love all the turtles, but I never could warm up to him because he was such an annoying little butthole in the comics and OT.The stereotypical know-it-all older brother that really needed a punch in the nose. He definitely got better in 2k3.

My fav is Raphael, but I love them all.

[triplexxx]

I don't read the comics so I can't speak for him there. But he ain't that bad, I mean he gets a bit prideful every now and then, but the only time I remember him actually exalting himself as better thn his bros was in the new movie, and when he did that, Raphael threw it back in his face. I admit, starting the NT off with a training session where he succeeds and the others don't was probably not the best idea, but they made up for that by giving every turtle an equal part in the defeat and deaths of any major villains who were killed, not to mention there greatest feat in the Lost Season, so it's not like he gets any more exalted. Leonardo can get annoying, but so can the others in their own way.

[Leonardo_]

For me it doesn't have something to do with the characters the people like the most. The reason why I could not get along with people here is their behaviour or how they act. So it could easily happen that I also don't get along well with a Leonardo fan.
It depends on how the fan himself/herself is and not what character he/she likes. I don't say "Uh that is a Raphael fan, so I don't like the person", because I don't really know her. That would be immature to me.

[MoreCowbell5263]

When I saw this post, I didn't think Leo and Raph would come up as the pair of favorite and least favorite. Sure they're different, but all of them are. What surprises me about this is that Leo and Raph have a more in common with each other (at least it seems like it sometimes) than they do with the others.

I've stated my polar opposites and "Z is a mix of X and Y" theory before, so just for this thread I'll state it again. If you remember it or are not interested, just skim down to after the "[ ]" ends.

[Leo is a mixture of Don and Raph and his polar opposite is Mike. Leo would rather choose other ways of dealing with things than fighting (Don) but also knows sometimes fighting is the only way to get through to some of their villains (Raph). Leo obviously takes his training (as well as many other things) very seriously, whereas Mike is very carefree and laid back and goofs around a lot.

Don is a mixture of Leo and Mike and his polar opposite is Raph. Don is a character who likes to have fun (even though his definition of fun is working on his gadgets), but nonetheless, he tries to have fun (Mike), but he also knows when it's time to be serious and that goofing around and making jokes won't help (Leo). Raph and Don I think are the two most different turtles in the group, Leo and Mike in my opinion being a close second, but Raph and Don's personalities are almost entirely different to the point where they sometimes have really tense arguments like the one seen in TMNT regarding fear and methods of getting things done.

Raph is a mixture of Leo and Mike and his polar opposite is Don. Raph takes his training very seriously, works hard to improve his skills, and feels very strongly about right and wrong and his sense of justice (Leo), and he's also someone who truly ENJOYS showing off his skills in combat, so you often see him in movies and cartoons fighting and bragging about how much better he is than they are (Mike). Like I said, him and Don are just entirely different. Raph likes fighting and improving his fighting skills and tries to take any opportunity that gets thrown at him to hone them. Don, being a ninja, is still relatively pacifistic and would much rather use technology and other means instead of risking their lives fighting.

Mike is a mixture of Don and Raph and his polar opposite is Leo. Raph likes to have fun but he probably gets more pleasure and excitement out of beating people up who he feels deserve it. Mike likes showing his fighting skills off and trying to make the world a better place (Raph) but I think he enjoys doing things like play video games or watch a movie (Don, even though Raph does like video games) more than he does fighting. Again, Mike is a goofball and doesn't take his training seriously, or at least not nearly as seriously as Leo. Mike is a light-hearted free-spirit who likes to relax, and Leo just enjoys working on his ninjitsu and learning more about it.]

Granted, all the turtles will have some things in common with any turtle that gets paired with them, but some more than others. Knowing all this, I was expecting Raph fans to have Don as their least favorite and the other way around for Don fans. And I thought Leo fans would see Mike as their least favorite and vise versa. I know Don's my favorite and Raph is my least, Don being because I relate to him, and Raph because I don't, or at least not as much as I relate to Leo or Mike. I don't hate Raph, but he is my least favorite.

[Spawn Guy]

People are critical, over analytical, unsympathetic and ultimately variable. If you notice any pattern it's simply because it’s the easiest one to see. Variables usually don’t stand out too much. If some Don fan is an asshole it’s because their an asshole who just happens to like Don.

[Sewer Bull]

If some Don fan is an asshole it’s because their an asshole who just happens to like Don.

...

But, but... I SAID I WAS SORRY!

:cry:

[MoreCowbell5263]

Spawn guy makes a point. The reason I like Don and not like Raph as much is based on how much I relate to them, that's how I usually pick my favorite and least favorite characters, or unless one character is just plain annoying, in which case I only hope I don't relate to them. I guess the people who like Leo and don't like Raph or like Raph and don't like Leo don't pick their favorites the same way I do, or maybe Leo and Raph have less in common than Don and Raph do, but I kinda doubt that.

[Spitfire]

I don't read the comics so I can't speak for him there.

Yeah the comics and the old toon are the only places he bothers me like he does. In the movies he's fine, and I didn't mind him in the new movie because he got his ass kicked like he deserved.

That scene really made the movie for me. Raph and him fight in the comics a few times*Raph kicks the crap out of Leo in "Return To New York" over a similar dispute* but to visually see it was what I had been waiting for, for a long time.

[Time Mistress]

I don't have a least favorite Turtle any more than I have a favorite really. I favor Mike and Raph more than Leo and Don. I tend to go:
1. Raph/Mike
2. Leo/Don
Because just when I read a comic or see an episode that might put one in front of the other, another medium will do something cool with the other one.

[Sage Ninja]

Yeah the comics and the old toon are the only places he bothers me like he does. In the movies he's fine, and I didn't mind him in the new movie because he got his ass kicked like he deserved.

That scene really made the movie for me. Raph and him fight in the comics a few times*Raph kicks the crap out of Leo in "Return To New York" over a similar dispute* but to visually see it was what I had been waiting for, for a long time.


you see this is what I mean. Its this sort of relish of seeing another turtle get taken down a peg that I was talking about. it seems that there are some fans out there that seem to naturally dislike or savor another turtle getting nocked off their horse. I don;t think its because Spits a jerk like some one else suggested is the reason why he likes seeing another turtle get his come uppance, but the belief that the turtle he doesn't care for deserves the humiliation that he is about to get. And like it. Its mostly Leo fans who feel this way toward the character of Raphael and vice verca. And i think Spit mentioned that he was a Dontello fan but based on what he just wrote I can guess that he is also a Raphael fan as well...eighther that or he just hates Leo and would have taken the same satisfation had been Mikey or Don kicking Leo's ass for being cocky?

I just wondered why this was the case. I notice that alot of Raphael fans find Michaelangelo annoying and are critical of his character more so than Leo and Don fans are. And I'm bit stumped as to why, since in most mediums Raphael and Michaelangelo are supposed to be good buddies. And I've noticed some Michaelangelo fans being particualrly critical and disdainful of Raphael's character, as sort of a back lash (or perhaps its the other way around) but I'm not just pulling this out of thin air its something that I've noticed that one fan of one turtle is building their favorite turtle up they generally down play or critise the oppisite turtle to make their character seem a bit lacking compared to theirs. I've seen Mikey fanns do this to Rapahel's character, and I've seen the reverse for Raphael's fans to Michaelangelo's character and the same as true with Leo and Rapahel's fans. Doantello character seems to get by with the least amount of criticism and hate from all fans bases, and I notice most Donatello fans are pretty reasonable bunch that don;t put down other turtle characters just to build Dontello up. Weird:ohwell:

So I think there is some evidence that suggest that people who like one turtle genrally dislike another for what ever reason. Of course that just my observation your free to dispute it if you like.

but I'll say that I thought Mikey was just too annoying in the old toon for my taste

Really? I think comparatively oldtoon Michaelangelo is much less annoying than New toon Michaelangel and less hyper. There are times when I find New toon inexcusably annoying and I'm a fan of him. OT Mikey was more laid back and endearing in my opinion.

[Ra]

I honestly don't hate any of the turtles at all. Raph is my favorite, but that doesn't make me hate Leo at all. Any turtle is a good turtle to me :D

People are critical, over analytical, unsympathetic and ultimately variable. If you notice any pattern it's simply because it’s the easiest one to see. Variables usually don’t stand out too much. If some Don fan is an asshole it’s because their an asshole who just happens to like Don.
*nods* No truer words have been spoken. There is no set in concrete answer to all of this "like/dislike" thing. The turtles are all great in my eyes and I can not possibly bring myself to dislike any particular one.

[Mr. Stay Puft]

As previously stated, for most fans, myself included, it comes down to who they relate to the most. While I, and probably anyone else here, see characteristics of each turtle in my own personality, I can identify with certain turtles more than others.

Example: I tend to be the comic relief when I'm in a group (Mikey). However, my sense of humor tends to be rather cynical and sarcastic and I have somewhat of a short temper (Raph). I'm also fairly pacifistic, resorting to physical violence only when provoked and only when necessary, and am also fairly adept when it come to computers and electronics (Don). Leo would be my polar opposite, though I came to respect him more in 2k3 season 4, which was one of the rare instances where I could somewhat relate to him.

[Ava Collier]

sometimes I need me some good Mikey.


Best quote ever.

[Garou]

As previously stated, for most fans, myself included, it comes down to who they relate to the most. While I, and probably anyone else here, see characteristics of each turtle in my own personality, I can identify with certain turtles more than others.

Of course, it would only be logical to favor the one you can relate to and understand - which is why I can't pick a least favorite, because they all have sides I have myself.

I haven't read the comics either, so I can't say how Leo's acting and I haven't seen TNM, so I can't say that I don't like Venus...

Really? I think comparatively oldtoon Michaelangelo is much less annoying than New toon Michaelangel and less hyper. There are times when I find New toon inexcusably annoying and I'm a fan of him. OT Mikey was more laid back and endearing in my opinion.

That may be the thing. I'm a pretty hyper person myself, which could be why NT Mike doesn't bother me, but OT did... Thanks, I've never been able to pin point what I found so annoying about him :lol:

[odupianist]

I have to agree with spitfire. Leo is my least favorite for those reasons. Mikey is my favorite. Raph and Don are tied at second, depending on the incarnation of him. Leo is the last. I like them all equally, but if I had to pick, those would be it.

[Rooish]

Gooooood topic, Sage! I tried to reply yesterday but then there was a brownout in my neighbourhood ... damn electricity useage ... and my answer went away. :cry:

Anyway, I have definitely noticed that some Raphael fans really hate Leonardo. And it seems that this is reciprocated by some Leo fans. I haven't noticed as much of a Raph-Mike rivalry among fans, although myself, being a Mike fan, I sometimes get mighty annoyed with new toon Raph's treatment of Mikey. But neither new toon Raph nor new toon Mikey are especially consistent with how I see those characters, anyway. Usually I love Mike and Raph.

Myself, my favourite Turtle is Mike and my least favourite Turtle is Don (although I do still love Don, don't worry). And Don is only my least favourite for the same petty reason that Leo seems to be many Raph-fans' least favourite: I am jealous. So this next rant is just my petty opinion.

Firstly, Leo and Raph already have their rivalry in all mediums, which forces Don and Mike to be the slightly less-important pair. Now, out of this pair, Don always gets the upper hand. He treats Mike like a kid and acts patronizing because he's so much smarter. Especially in the new toon. Also in the new toon, Don is this completely nice, sweet, gentle guy, when--dammit--that's Mike's role! Or at least it should be. I have always seen it that Don has the brains, Raph the guts/brawn, Leo the skill/charisma, and Mike the "heart." If, as in 2k3, Mike is a stuck-up brat who isn't especially compassionate, whereas Don is, then Mike is reduced to basically ... nothing. Except for vague crap like his "agility" and "inate athleticism."

But anyway, people say that Don is this great pacifist, and I think that intellectually he is, but he also has, in my view, a ruthless side that requires that he "gets the job done." He has killed people in the Mirage comics and I don't remember ever seeing Mikey explicitly kill anybody (and even if I'm proven wrong about that, Don is way more pragmatic about violence, and has killed more people, even though he detests killing). But Mike also detests killing, although he hasn't thought out some logical reason for it. He just doesn't have the heart to.

I don't even really see Mike being a great writer, as many other people see it. I think Mike isn't articulate enough or analytical enough to write extremely well--not saying he's stupid. But he's all heart. So he needs to have that!

Also, I imagine Don as having a slightly snide, sarcastic streak, especially towards Leo and Raph (who like to think they have all the power), just because he's so much smarter. In 2k3, he's so cute and submissive! That's Mike's job, he's the peacemaker! So Don is my least favourite just because he completely steals everything Mike is supposed to be. In mediums where Don does not do that (such as Mirage Volume 4, where Don is compassionate but also a bit self-righteous and solitary, without Mike's playful sweetness), I like Don just fine. But in mediums where I see things as mixed up (as in 2k3, which in most other ways is a fantastic show), I have issues with the character portrayals, and seem to take it out on the character who isn't my favourite to being with.

[triplexxx]

If, as in 2k3, Mike is a stuck-up brat who isn't especially compassionate, whereas Don is, then Mike is reduced to basically ... nothing.

Except for vague crap like his "agility" and "inate athleticism."
Not compassionate? Well, I guess that explains why he did what he did in that Christams Aliens episode for all those kids at that care center.

Vague? Maybe, but no more so than those advantages the others got. Leonardo, most skill...perhaps, but not that much more than the others. Raphael, strongest...perhaps, but not that much more than the others. Donatello, brainiest...well, it's hard to say...science-wise definitely, but street-wise, maybe not.

[odupianist]

I don't think Don is that mean to Mike in 2k3. I think they're all rough on him but only cause he's the goofball for everything, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Spawn Guy]

Or it could be they tagged Mike as comic relief and everything that happens to him is meant to be a gag.

[Sage Ninja]

Myself, my favourite Turtle is Mike and my least favourite Turtle is Don (although I do still love Don, don't worry). And Don is only my least favourite for the same petty reason that Leo seems to be many Raph-fans' least favourite: I am jealous. So this next rant is just my petty opinion.

Firstly, Leo and Raph already have their rivalry in all mediums, which forces Don and Mike to be the slightly less-important pair. Now, out of this pair, Don always gets the upper hand. He treats Mike like a kid and acts patronizing because he's so much smarter. Especially in the new toon. Also in the new toon, Don is this completely nice, sweet, gentle guy, when--dammit--that's Mike's role! Or at least it should be. I have always seen it that Don has the brains, Raph the guts/brawn, Leo the skill/charisma, and Mike the "heart." If, as in 2k3, Mike is a stuck-up brat who isn't especially compassionate, whereas Don is, then Mike is reduced to basically ... nothing. Except for vague crap like his "agility" and "inate athleticism." (...) In 2k3, he's so cute and submissive! That's Mike's job, he's the peacemaker! So Don is my least favourite just because he completely steals everything Mike is supposed to be.

eep :o . Get ready for a bit of back lash from the Donny fans for that post Roo ;) . But I see where you are coming from. I do think there are a few aspects about Donatello that I would have normally thought should have been Mikey characteristics but I guess its important to remember that both are supposed to be the nice guys of the group. I just always assumed that Mikey would be the more open and innocent of the two when it comes to his sweetness and Don would be more sophisticated and--as you say, articulate, about about his compassinate side. I do think that the 2k3 series passes up some good opertunities to show Mikey having a more sweet and compassionate side in favor of showing as the hyper jokester guy. Donatello usually gets those oppertunities to show what a gentle disposition he has instead of Mikey (aside from the one where gets all the toys in the orphange) But I think the biggest problem in the TMNT world is that the boys are given one trait and the focus kept on that one trait for the most part and they don't always explore the turtles other characteristics that make up who they are. Also I feel the writters went out of their way to give Mikey a comedic personalty so they went alittle over board. I hjust think is some area the franchise doesn't give Mikey the courtisy of a more sunstanstial role in favor of making him the "comic relief".

I do think that Don's intellect makes any one appear like a moran when compared to him, and sadly this is the case with Don and Mikey when they are paired up. There characters though similar in the "laid back" category are very diffrent in every things else so it makes it appear that their relatonship is on unequal scales, hence it always appears that Donatello is dragging along a two year old when ever Mikey and they are paired up. And since Mikey since to be a bit less analytic than Don and doesn't catch on as quickly as he does Don has a tendacy to spell things out to Mikey in a specfic step by step way as if he where explaining things to a little kid, which is why he comes off as a bit patranizing toward Mikey. Its sort of why I don't care for the Mikey Don pair-up because there interactions aren't that thrilling to me. However I don't think Don is like this to Mikey on purpose I think cause he is smart he can be like this toward any one with out trully intending too.

I don't even really see Mike being a great writer, as many other people see it. I think Mike isn't articulate enough or analytical enough to write extremely well--not saying he's stupid. But he's all heart. So he needs to have that!

I don't why he wouldn't be. I think this stems from Mikey having the most creative immagination and that writting is a could out let to this aspect of him. Its just never explored in any medium out side the comics.

I have issues with the character portrayals, and seem to take it out on the character who isn't my favourite to being with.

Yeah I do too on sevearal occasions .


Not compassionate? Well, I guess that explains why he did what he did in that Christams Aliens episode for all those kids at that care center.

Vague? Maybe, but no more so than those advantages the others got. Leonardo, most skill...perhaps, but not that much more than the others

I think what Rooish means is that she wishes that this aspect of Mikey's personality was explored more. As it is yes Mikey has a comapassionate nature but the times the writters focus on this is far and in between and this is sort of contraticted by all the times the writters make Mikey cocky or show-off brash, and atagonanistic.

[MoreCowbell5263]

Being a Don fan, I can say that Rooish does make some good points. I know Mike is probably more the heart of the group and they sometimes show Don as being more that character in the NT, which I like and feel that he is a little light-hearted than say Leo or Raph, but I do agree that Mike is supposed to be that character, or at least moreso than Don. I want to agree whole-heartedly, but I also wouldn't want the show to display Don as having no nice, compassionate side but Mike having it all, heck even Raph had some nicer moments in the series.

I see what you're saying, and I do wish Mike was more than just a comic relief in the show, but that's one of the problems with the show being mostly aimed at children, they need a comic relief, the cheap laugh. Mike has had some nice moments, but yeah, not enough nice moments, at least not enough to make up for his egotistic and hyper behavior. It's easier for the show to display Don as the nice one because he's a ninja who prefers to use technology instead of fighting and harder to show Mike as that character because they need him to be the cheap laugh.

I'm not trying to offend any Mike fans or anything, but I'm just saying what I think happened to Mike in the NT.

[jerome]

Personally Mike is my fav. And he has been sice day one. I understand why people would find him annoying but i don't think thats his charecter's fault. Its the writers who refuse to let him ever have any decent fight scenes or decent dialouge. I think alot of potential is wasted on Mikie in 2k3. I was glad he won the Battle Nexus.

I've never been a big leo fan because honestly he bores me to tears. He's pretty predictable and seems to be that teacher's pet/boyscout type that really annoy me.

I really like Don for his interactions with Mikie. I think the two make a good pairing. Especially in the 1990 flick.

Porkrind?
Porkrind.
Fight?
Fight.
Kitchen?
Kitchen.

Thats one of my fave scenes fromt the 1990 film.

I like raph for his brooding and temper and unpredictability. I guess the only reason i even like leo is so we have someone to piss off raph.

[Spitfire]

Spit mentioned that he was a Dontello fan but based on what he just wrote I can guess that he is also a Raphael fan as well...eighther that or he just hates Leo and would have taken the same satisfation had been Mikey or Don kicking Leo's ass for being cocky?

I'm not a big Raph fan, it's like you said, doesn't matter who kicked his butt he needed it. And the same would go for any turtle who was being to full of himself. I have nothing against Mikey but seeing him get pounded on in "Grudge Match" was welcomed after hearing him brag about his Battle Nexus trophy for an entire season.

Honestly the only time I hated Don was in that kids turtles Manga, which I don't like. He turned Don into a selfish hermit and if Don acted like that I wouldn't mind seeing him getting knocked around. That's not why I didn't like the Manga though I just can't stand that style of artwork and it seemed like the story was going nowhere, but that's a different story.

[Rooish]

Thank you, Sage Ninja, for clarifying my intentions. Mikey certainly has shown a compassionate side in the NT; I think my problem is that this compassion is so rarely directed towards his family. When I feel like he should be the team peacemaker. As for Mikey being a writer--good point. He is very imaginative and artistic, and I can imagine he observes more than he lets on. My only concern is that he doesn't seem very articulate. But that can be cured. :)

In 2k3 and the new movie, I dislike Don and Mike's relationship, which just doesn't seem even or respectful. In the first movie they were great together, but Don was portrayed pretty weirdly in that. There was a lot of respect and caring in that movie between them. The second one, too. And they were hilarious.

And MoreCowbell, I'm glad I didn't offend you too badly as a Don fan. Certainly, Don and Mike both are the "nice" Turtles of the bunch. Don has, in my mind, tremendous empathy. He's just not as warm --in my mind--at expressing it, while Mike is. I just see Don as having way more than empathy going for him, and Mike not having as much that is truly his own skill. To be sure, I love the idea of Don's character in 2k3; what a sweet guy! My only problem is that ... he steals Mike's thunder, and by "thunder" I mean "charm and sweetness and gentleness." Not a good reason to make a charming, sweet, gentle character my least favourite, but I'm not a very rational person. I'm working on it.

Anyway, I understand that they needed a comic relief character--one to appeal to today's ADHD spoiled raised-by-TV kids. And Mike has some great moments in the new toon, I just wish there were ... more.

[MoreCowbell5263]

Yeah, even though I've never read the comics, I've heard so much about them, I found myself wanting to see more comic book stuff in the cartoons and movies. Mike's character in the comics seems a lot more relatable than the NT one. Everyone has had their somewhat hyper moments and felt a little 'on top of the world,' but I'd like to see more "heart of the team" Mike, or "peacemaker" Mike. Don's a pacifist and doesn't like violence too much, but he's also not the one who would break up a fight if it got too heated, that's more Mike, which I'd like to see more of. I tried imagining what would've happened in TMNT if Don or Mike had shown up while Leo and Raph were fighting. It got really heated and I wondered if one or both of them would go in. I usually imagine both going in, Don holding Leo back and Mike holding Raph back, but that's because it's in the movie and it would portray Don as being too scared to fix the family problem. In other mediums, if that happened, I'd really only imagine someone of Mike's personality traits to actually risk getting hurt and try to stop them, Don would probably just watch and HOPE nothing too bad happened. If it happened in the movie, I'd imagine it the way I mentioned earlier, Don holding Leo back and Mike holding back Raph. Or maybe once Leo and Raph noticed them, they'd come to their senses. I don't know, now I'm just thinking out loud and typing it.

[Spitfire]

If you want to keep loving 2K3 then never read the comics.

[sdp]

I loved raph as a kid and hated Leonardo. But my reason for hating Leonardo was only because he was the leader, and as a kid I hated "leader" characters. All my friends would always fight to be the "leader" character of any show while I was a rebel even back then 8)


If you want to keep loving 2K3 then never read the comics.

nah, if you are a fan of one media even if you are introduced to a better "version" you might not think that. Especially going from animation to old comic books..

[MoreCowbell5263]

I don't think I'll get into the comics, no matter what superhero it is, I don't like reading. I prefer watching movies and cartoons, so I'm not worried about it. I'm sure the comics are great, but I just don't like reading anything, I prefer watching them in movies and cartoons. Plus I'm not much into the black and white, sometimes can't tell which turtle's which without seeing the weapons.

[VaughnMichael]

I don't think I'll get into the comics, no matter what superhero it is, I don't like reading. I prefer watching movies and cartoons, so I'm not worried about it. I'm sure the comics are great, but I just don't like reading anything, I prefer watching them in movies and cartoons. Plus I'm not much into the black and white, sometimes can't tell which turtle's which without seeing the weapons.
And thus The Culture falls down another notch.....

[Rooish]

* In which Rooish flips out and states her wishes for Putrescent to stop insulting people *

[ToTheNines]

He has a point, it's sad to see people hating reading so much that they wont pick up a friggin comic... geez.

[VaughnMichael]

Holy ****, Putrescent, do you mind??? STOP INSULTING PEOPLE YOU WHINY JERK. God, like half the **** you say just breaks up a normal, pleasant discussion.

I read the comics first and love them. I still love 2k3.
I'm a jerk because the majority of our society does not read?
They don't like something that isn't a movie or on TV or made for them so they don't have to do anything besides sit there.
I may be a jerk and overly opinionated but at least I'm not blind to the fact that Americas culture is in the crapper.
And Insulting? Hardly And if you want to point fingers don't you think someone who's so godly shouldn't resort to the name calling they think the person they find so lowly about is doing? Oh and btw No It's a free message board where people can post what they want until it's not I'll post anywhere and anything I like I didn't hurt this person I just posted a comment about the state our American Culture.
And I wouldn't have to say things if people wouldn't flat out say ignorant things like "I don't like reading," "I don't like black and white," & Other nonsense my comment wasn't really directed at one person even though I quoted them.
Man you people misunderstand me so much it's not even funny.
I also wouldn't say things if it wasn't the truth our country is seriously lacking in culture and it slumps lower and lower every day.
And what exactly did my posting what I said have to do with enjoying the show and not reading the comics?
I'm talking about how people are so lazy now that they won't even pick up a comic book let alone a normal book.
People make fun of us in cartoons because we wont pick up a book unless it has pictures in it and more often than not it's sadly true.
I work in the industry and I know how dumb our culture is why do you think advertising has more images than words?
BECAUSE PEOPLE DO NOT READ....just like I'm sure half of what I've just said here will not even be looked over and oh I'm sure parts will be taken out of context to the parts u want to hate me for but that's fine.
I'm not here to make friends I'm here because I'm a Ninja Turtles fan and that's it.
He has a point, it's sad to see people hating reading so much that they wont pick up a friggin comic... geez.
At least some people get I'm saying here shesh..:| I was starting to get scared there for a moment.
I wasn't hating on anyone and interrupting anything in fact the person I commented on pretty much did if we want to get technical what's this thread about? Oh yes Fans on one turtle generally dislike another turtle? I commented on a person who disrupted the normal flow of things. And once again I get the brunt of things and get called childish names.
I also think we should start encouraging people to read again and I'm not talking about having Barbara Bush or some Basketball player who more than likely doesn't even read tell us to read books. I'm Actually quite scared for how things are going and people don't even realize the direction we're headed.

Oh and let me state since I haven't when I was a kid and still even to this day I dislike Michaelangelo because of what a huge Donatello fan I am, And with the new show I'm a huge Raphael fan so I tend to hate on Leonardo because he's a jerk to Raphael and Raphael's much like myself the misunderstood guy who speaks his mind.

[twigs232]

While Donatello is my favorite I generally like all of them.

[ToTheNines]

Now for my on topic post:

My favorite turtles are Raph and Mike, because I relate to them the most. But my favorite turtle to watch fight is Leo for some reason. I never have any distain for Don, but I don't like him a hell of a lot.

My sister however, she's a Mikey fan and absoloutley hates Raphael, she's a real flake too, so Donnie annoys her when he says something really nerdy :lol:

[Rooish]

Okay, if it wasn't a personal attack, I'm sorry. But it sure seemed that way. You responded directly to MoreCowbell5263's comment--about how he specifically (not our whole society) doesn't like to read--by saying that "The Culture" had fallen down a notch ... because this one guy said he doesn't like to read ...

Yeah, I wish people in our society were more literate, but it seemed weird for you to say that in response to MoreCowbell5263. I don't see anything wrong with his grammar, spelling, logic, or whatever else is related to reading, so even if he doesn't like reading, he hasn't failed America or anything ...

I don't think I'm godly ... I know I'm not a moderator, I just hate seeing bullies, and that seemed to be what you were being. And if you think I'm a bully for calling you on something I thought was rude and unnecessary ... then I have to disagree with you on that one. ;)

But I edited my previous post, anyway.

[Scandia]

I am an avid reader. In most cases, the manga is better than the anime. But I have to admit I like the 2k3 toon even better than the original Mirage comic. It is just extremely engaging.

And this does not make me any less intellectual than someone who prefers Mirage or Archie. Or any more than someone who likes the movies or OT best.

[VaughnMichael]

Now for my on topic post:

My favorite turtles are Raph and Mike, because I relate to them the most. But my favorite turtle to watch fight is Leo for some reason. I never have any distain for Don, but I don't like him a hell of a lot.

My sister however, she's a Mikey fan and absoloutley hates Raphael, she's a real flake too, so Donnie annoys her when he says something really nerdy :lol:
It's funny you know? I believe it says allot about a person seeing what Ninja Turtles they like.
I am an avid reader. In most cases, the manga is better than the anime. But I have to admit I like the 2k3 toon even better than the original Mirage comic. It is just extremely engaging.

And this does not make me any less intellectual than someone who prefers Mirage or Archie. Or any more than someone who likes the movies or OT best.
That wasn't the point I was getting at.
What I was saying was that it's annoying to see we're at a point where people don't even read at all anymore not even comic books which where made in the first place to get people to read who wouldn't read normal books lol.
Okay, if it wasn't a personal attack, I'm sorry. But it sure seemed that way. You responded directly to MoreCowbell5263's comment--about how he specifically (not our society) doesn't like to read--by saying that "The Culture" had fallen down a notch ... because this one guy said he doesn't like to read ...

Yeah, I wish people in our society were more literate, but it seemed weird for you to say that in response to MoreCowbell5263. I don't see anything wrong with his grammar, spelling, logic, or whatever else is related to reading, so even if he doesn't like reading, he hasn't failed America or anything ...

I don't think I'm godly ... I know I'm not a moderator, I just hate seeing bullies, and that seemed to be what you were being. And if you think I'm a bully for calling you on something I thought was rude and unnecessary ... then I have to disagree with you on that one. ;)

But I edited my previous post, anyway.
I would have said it to anyone who would have said such a thing I pretty much believe that if you don't read at all it's like a huge insult.
It's just a personal opinion but it's sad when people don't read at all. Little late for editing since I quoted you ;)
And what set me off the edge was that persons saying that they don't like to read. It could have been anyone I still would have said that it's a general statement.
And I was basically saying you where calling the kettle black when you went off the handle and called me names when I didn't even say one rude name I just made some social commentary.
But you do obviously think what you said about me or you never would have said it but that's fine you can think whatever you like about a person on a message board because it really doesn't affect who I am in the real world Since you really don't know me outside of here anyone that does would know a silly goofy guy. I just dislike Ignorance allot.

[MoreCowbell5263]

Sorry for throwing America's culture down the toilet. By the way, it's "a lot" not "allot." Allot is a verb meaning to gather.

[ToTheNines]

You may not be a good reader, but your a good proof reader :lol: (Corny joke, slap me if you must)

[MoreCowbell5263]

Just because I don't like reading, doesn't mean I'm not a good reader. But never mind, if I continue this, I'm not going to get any happier. Can we just talk about the turtles again? I didn't join a Ninja Turtles forum site to debate politics and symbolism in Dostoevsky and find out how cultured I am.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think he was saying Cowbell was responsible for the culture falling down a notch... but rather Cowbell's preference for only things televised or in the movies being indicative of a culture that has fallen down a notch.

And you know what? He's probably right.

[MoreCowbell5263]

He was basically saying people like me are the reason America isn't cultured, but dang it, I'm getting worked up again. I think I'm gonna take a vacation from this website or something.

[VaughnMichael]

He was basically saying people like me are the reason America isn't cultured, but dang it, I'm getting worked up again. I think I'm gonna take a vacation from this website or something.
No I was just saying people who don't read in general and just watch the movie instead of reading the book are missing out.
Hows that for a nice way of saying it ;)

[Andrew NDB]

He was basically saying people like me are the reason America isn't cultured, but dang it, I'm getting worked up again. I think I'm gonna take a vacation from this website or something.

I agree with him on principle, but it's not your fault. Society and an age of eBay, MySpace, iPods, cell phones, text messaging and movies on demand have just made for more or less a generation with -- in general -- less of an attention span and less of a need for imagination. Today's kids are less apt to say, "I want to pick up a book and imagine the pictures in my head" and that you're living proof that there's even folks out there not even keen on picking up a picture book with barely any reading to do it... and that's kind of sad.

I'm not saying there's not exceptions to the rule, or that it even will always be the case for you.

[VaughnMichael]

I agree with him on principle, but it's not your fault. Society and an age of eBay, MySpace, cell phones, text messaging and movies on demand have just made for more or less a generation with -- in general -- with less of an attention span and less of a need for imagination. I'm not saying there's not exceptions to the rule.
and that's what I was saying I was just being blunt and to the point anyone could have said what he did and i would have said the same thing meaning that it's not aimed at one person.
but yeah We can agree on one thing let's get back to talking turtles that's what we're here for anyways :)

[Sage Ninja]

umm, yeah getting this topic back toward the turtles instead America's literary dillema:

Being a Don fan, I can say that Rooish does make some good points. I know Mike is probably more the heart of the group and they sometimes show Don as being more that character in the NT, which I like and feel that he is a little light-hearted than say Leo or Raph, but I do agree that Mike is supposed to be that character, or at least moreso than Don. I want to agree whole-heartedly, but I also wouldn't want the show to display Don as having no nice, compassionate side but Mike having it all, heck even Raph had some nicer moments in the series.

Well I am glad that as a Donatello fan that you don't like any one was down grading him. Its just that...yeah I think this is the firsat version of the turtles that hasn't portrayed Michelangelo as being sweet and gentle natured. I mean of course Michaelangelo is the humourous one but I feel that they drag this out and make him more slap stick rather than genuanly funny. I would much prefere him to be witty and snarky for his humour rather than making him a scarety cat or jerk who gets put in his place. I, too, have felt that some of the thing the writters have done to Donatelloo's character seemed a bit more Michaelango-ish or at least should have been. I've always thought of Michaelangelo (despite being the youngest and most niave turtle) would be the one to breathe life into the family and hold it together. And if he was not around the turtles would be colder. In the Same As It Never Was episode (even though it was completely badass and great for Donatello's character) I felt it was slightly off because I would think Michaelangelo would have been able to keep the remaining turtles together even if one of them went MIA. But I don't know. I have serious mixed feelings on Mikey's prtrayal in the 2k3 series. I feel that this series has gone and taken out an essential aspect to his character and instead have decided to make him more of the class clown. And the times where he does show his compassion it ushally not executed to well and his alwayts tinged with undertones of self promotion. Although this is the first version of the turtles that has given Mikey a sorta sinister side. He isn't very nice at times and can be atagonistic, and it gives him a dimension where you can wonder what it would be like if he Mikey where to ever truley malicious. Its not a side to him that has ever been shown in other mediums.

I see what you're saying, and I do wish Mike was more than just a comic relief in the show, but that's one of the problems with the show being mostly aimed at children, they need a comic relief, the cheap laugh. Mike has had some nice moments, but yeah, not enough nice moments, at least not enough to make up for his egotistic and hyper behavior. It's easier for the show to display Don as the nice one because he's a ninja who prefers to use technology instead of fighting and harder to show Mike as that character because they need him to be the cheap laugh.

I'm not trying to offend any Mike fans or anything, but I'm just saying what I think happened to Mike in the NT.


No offence at all, I agree with you. One of the biggest problems that I'm noticeing with Mkkey in the NT is the lack of balance to counter-act his more "flawed" character traits. I think all characters need good qualites and bad qualites to give them depth but I feel the writters don't put in enough effert to balance out Mikey's "boastful and egotistical" side. Heck I'd even settle for the writters to do a little delving into Mikey's back ground to show why he egotistical and boastful and show a little justification for it...show exactly why he is like that maybe. It might serve to have the audiance understand him more so he wouldn't come off quite so much as a jerk. But the Writters don't really focus on this which is a shame. He's just a comic relief character.

Mikey certainly has shown a compassionate side in the NT; I think my problem is that this compassion is so rarely directed towards his family.

Well. that may be so but...I don;t really blame him for not going out of his way to show more compassion toward them. They all to some or form look down on him a him a bit. And whether he his behavior deserves it or not, you could say that if the people closest to you thought you where just an annoying pest to be put up with, would you being jumping up every time there is comflict to make things better?

[triplexxx]

Well, about this whole Michaelangelo thing, "who's the peacekeeper of the group?", and whatnot....I ought to point out that aside from the slaps given to Michaelangelo, and the little bit of "physical" teasing that goes on between Raphael and Michaelangelo (including the major instance in Meet Casey Jones), and maybe that one tiny fight between Leonardo and Raphael in Shredder Strikes 1.....truth to tell, there really isn't that much reason for a peacekeeper in the family; a majority of the fights in the turtle family in 2k3 are not much more than petty verbal teasing/assault. Not to mention, usually, when these argument-type fights do occur, like between Raphael and Michaelangelo, or between Raphael and Leonardo, usually, the two who aren't involved just stand to the side and watch it happen and shake their heads or something...or they might jump in the brawl and do a pile-on, like they did in Reflections.
I really don't see a "definite" peacekeeper within the family...I would think sometimes it's Donatello, other times it's Michaelangelo. Kinda like the way it is with the hothead thing, sometimes it's Raphael, sometimes it's Leonardo.
If anybody notices, they do sometimes temporarily switch roles between the turtles in 2k3. Like sometimes Leonardo leads, sometimes, in very technical situations (or SAINW), Donatello leads. I believe the writers do this to make the turtles more than just their stereotypical, one-dimensional selves. Maybe the reason some fans prefer one turtle and oppose another who's supposedly got the complete opposite personality is because they don't take notice of this. I'm pretty sure if they never varied the turtles personalities, had the turtles switch roles a few times, and in turn, make them more than just one-dimensional, then 2k3 wouldn't have become as popular as it has.

However, back on Michaelangelo, if you want another example of him being peacekeeper for the family: Leatherhead's a good example...he was the one that created peace between Leatherhead and his family, though this isn't an example of creating peace between his brothers, it is an example of creating peace between a stranger and his brothers.

[TheUltimateShredhead]

I personally like all four of them same as much, both series need each personality!

[Leonardo Leads]

OT and movies 1-3:
Don
Raph
Leo
Mikey

2K3:
Leo
Mikey
Raph
Don

CGI Movie:
Leo
Mikey
Don
Raph

I love them all, but this is just the order I would go with

[Revan]

I'll jump in here and say that I'm a big Raphael fan and although I do not hate Leonardo parse, I do get little kicks out of seeing him come up short at times. When Leo gets humbled by a foe or by Raph, I have a little party in my head. But by no means to I hate any of the turtles. Does that count?

[MoreCowbell5263]

I'm surprised Leo fans don't like Raph and the other way around, I know Raph is more rebellious and Leo is the straight laced one, but they're not exactly polar opposites, they have a lot of similarities. I just thought Raph fans wouldn't like Don and Mike fans wouldn't like Leo and the other ways around. I do like some things about each turtle, so there isn't a turtle I hate, but they do bother me sometimes.

[Warhorse]

I am a huge fan of Raph. That aside, I have this funny love/hate feeling towards Leonardo. For the most part, he is probably my second favorite, but sometimes, when getting into arguments with Leo fans, I feel like I hate him.

But at the same time, it's Mikey and Don that I feel blah about. Like, if they were killed off, it wouldn't have an impact on me, but I don't have that dislike towards them like I have towards Leo sometimes. Does this make sense? I could live without Mikey and Don, but I could never live without Raph and Leo, although Leo gets under my skin sometimes.

And hey, my two cents on America culture. I hate comic books, but love to read novels. I wished they would turn the comic book material into full length novels where we can read exactly what each Turtle is thinking instead of trying to figure it out through the graphics. It drives my friends and cousin up the wall that I don't care for the comic book medium, even though they keep buying me all of these comics, but the medium never interested me.

Now the TMNT novel and the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle novel, I read in a couple of hours! They need to publish more works like that!

[Sage Ninja]

Well, about this whole Michaelangelo thing, "who's the peacekeeper of the group?", and whatnot....I ought to point out that aside from the slaps given to Michaelangelo, and the little bit of "physical" teasing that goes on between Raphael and Michaelangelo (including the major instance in Meet Casey Jones), and maybe that one tiny fight between Leonardo and Raphael in Shredder Strikes 1.....truth to tell, there really isn't that much reason for a peacekeeper in the family; a majority of the fights in the turtle family in 2k3 are not much more than petty verbal teasing/assault. Not to mention, usually, when these argument-type fights do occur, like between Raphael and Michaelangelo, or between Raphael and Leonardo, usually, the two who aren't involved just stand to the side and watch it happen and shake their heads or something...or they might jump in the brawl and do a pile-on, like they did in Reflections.

yeah you are right about this. Most of the petty sibling rivalry and competiveness was pretty much wrapped up in season one. Which I am rather glad for because at times the whole bickering and competiveness can get tiresome and reduntant. I will however wish thewy would lay off the petty assault though, no mater how playful its delivered. Its getting a little annoying.


If anybody notices, they do sometimes temporarily switch roles between the turtles in 2k3. Like sometimes Leonardo leads, sometimes, in very technical situations (or SAINW), Donatello leads. I believe the writers do this to make the turtles more than just their stereotypical, one-dimensional selves. Maybe the reason some fans prefer one turtle and oppose another who's supposedly got the complete opposite personality is because they don't take notice of this. I'm pretty sure if they never varied the turtles personalities, had the turtles switch roles a few times, and in turn, make them more than just one-dimensional, then 2k3 wouldn't have become as popular as it has.

you make a very good point about that triplexxx. The writters do on occassion shuffle the turtles roles and make them take on roles that are not normally their own. Actually I think some of the most interesting story lines in the show is when the turtle step out of their routine behavior patterns and they have to step up and do things things you don't normally see them doing. Trouble is, I don't think the show does this often enough. For the most part the turtles do stay pretty close to their designated stero types. Even John Campell (Raphael's V.A) expressed his wish that the turtles (particularly Raphael) would step out their stero types and have more varied interaction with one another than the typical exchanges thar normally occur on the show.

I am a huge fan of Raph. That aside, I have this funny love/hate feeling towards Leonardo. For the most part, he is probably my second favorite, but sometimes, when getting into arguments with Leo fans, I feel like I hate him.

yeah this is what i mean. Alot of people seem to have a love/hate thing for certain turtles that clash with other turtles in the show. And I think it stems mostly from the way certain fans idealize their favorite turtle that might tick off a fan of another turtle. Like for instance I don't actually hate one turtle overly much. But a fan of one turtle goes and builds their favorite turtle up to the point of putting them on a pedistal and indirectly puts down another turtle to build their favorite turtle up. It ticks off other fans. For instance I have nothing against Raphael personally but I have ceartainly gotten into heated pitch battles with them for building his character up and putting down another turtle saying that he is better than that turtle. I think Raphael fans feel the same way when Leo fans tdo this.

But at the same time, it's Mikey and Don that I feel blah about. Like, if they were killed off, it wouldn't have an impact on me, but I don't have that dislike towards them like I have towards Leo sometimes. Does this make sense? I could live without Mikey and Don, but I could never live without Raph and Leo, although Leo gets under my skin sometimes.

And I think the reason some people feel ambivalant toward Mikey and Don is because they are typically left unexplored even though they have potentcual as well. Its all in presentation. If the writters where to give eighther Mikey or Donatello a few engrossing storylines they would probably be more interesting for other fans.

[Seiza]

yeah this is what i mean. Alot of people seem to have a love/hate thing for certain turtles that clash with other turtles in the show. And I think it stems mostly from the way certain fans idealize their favorite turtle that might tick off a fan of another turtle.
From what I've noticed (both in the TMNT fandom and elsewhere), other fans almost always seem to be the cause of one's animosity towards a character. I'm not talking about Spitfire's desire to see Leo get taken down for his movie line, I find that perfectly normal. I'm referring more to "OMG I HATE THAT !@$#ER SOOOO MUCH [insert much cursing, threats of raping said character and such here] because he/she/it [insert random harmless action]" character-bashing. After interacting with fans who senselessly bash one's favourite character, the annoyance is quickly transferred to the character itself.

I'm surprised Leo fans don't like Raph and the other way around, I know Raph is more rebellious and Leo is the straight laced one, but they're not exactly polar opposites, they have a lot of similarities.
Huh, I found it almost expected for Raph and Leo fans to be at the other's throat. These two characters are most frequently shown opposing each other (not to mention, fandom builds it up to a whole 'nother degree entirely), and many fans quickly align themselves with their favourite character's opinions.

[Scandia]

I don't think Michelangelo and Donatello are neglected. They are just not the focus of the movies for some reason- the movies are very Raphael centric. However, the OT is pretty much Michelangelo's and Donatello's world. And Mirage Volume 4 is very focused on Donatello. And Fast Forward also focuses quite a bit on Mikey and Donnie. It all depends on the specific venue.

[ToTheNines]

And Fast Forward also focuses quite a bit on Mikey and Donnie. It all depends on the specific venue.

Too bad Mikey was a raving idiot in FF.

[MoreCowbell5263]

Seiza, sorry if I didn't mention it in that post, but I just thought because Don and Raph are more polar opposites in my opinion than Leo and Raph, I thought Raph and Don fans would have the Leo/Raph fan relationship. I guess I'm the only Don fan whose least favorite is Raph.

[Warhorse]

Seiza, sorry if I didn't mention it in that post, but I just thought because Don and Raph are more polar opposites in my opinion than Leo and Raph, I thought Raph and Don fans would have the Leo/Raph fan relationship. I guess I'm the only Don fan whose least favorite is Raph.

It's funny how a simple comic book character can have us humans completely analyze them, and in turn, analyze ourselves.

Don't think I dont like Donny and Mikey, they are fantastic characters. Mikey I like less in the latest movie and the toons, but adored him to pieces in the first three movies. As for Don, he has never, ever done anything that I could see wrong. And when he puts Raph in his place, he does it in a way that's respectful towards the hot headed turtle, as opposed to Leo who can sometimes have an arrogant, condesending personality towards Raph, and the others at times.

But my view of Leo, it's like he and Raph are the ultimate partnership. I couldn't imagine Raph living without the scolding and leadership of Leo to get him by, and I couldn't imagine Leo living without Raph's stubborness and competitiveness to drive Leo to his next level in training. It's like, of one dies, the other will cease to exist, and I seen proof of that in Same as it Never Was.