Did You Like Splinter's Origin Better in the Comics or in the Old Cartoon Series?

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[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I prefer the comic origin. I like the ooze better when it just causes things to grow and mutate, as opposed to making people/things take on attributes of whatever they last touched.

[Drtooth]

Well, considering the cartoon had a huge plot hole in it, since he actually was in conctact with the turtles closer to having contact with the rats, I'm going for the comic version. I felt the mutagen in the series was a little "iffy" considering that an animal had to be in contact with another animal to mutate. I never did care for that. kind of confusing.

Though I will say, there have been some great instances where Splinter being human was the source of drama and motivated the plot. Like Shreddered and Splintered .

[Scandia]

I prefer the comics origin.

Of course, as many people did, I was shocked about the rat origins in the movies- me being accustomed to the OT.

But I think that having Hamato Yoshi and Splinter be two separate characters is even cooler. Plus I like Tang Shen. More background and stories this way.

[KROW]

I'm dead level with the question. On one hand, I prefer the mutation process in the comics. On the other, I think having a rat mimic movements in a cage is silly. Though I think that the mutagen's requirements for it to work are a bit hokey and kind of confusing, it did leave a lot of options open for other characters.

In any event, both were better than his devolving in the Image series.

[Roseangelo]

Your poll is flawed... You're not asking a yes or no question, but those are the only choices.

[Mecha Cow]

Comic. I don't like the concept of Splinter and Yoshi being the same character.

[Coola Yagami]

The old toon didn't make sense in the sense that Splinter should have bascially become the 5th Turtle.... but I did like how him being Yoshi made the Splinter/Shredder thing that much more personal. Plus, I like how the mutagen differed between either mutated animals or human mutated into animals. If the cartoon explored it further, it would have made for more bestial mutants (the animals) and more traumatic mutants (the humans facing the fact they're now mutants).

The comic origin would have been ok if they didn't have the SPlinter knowing martial arts even though he was a normal rat thing. But I guess, he'd have to know martial arts somehow to train the turtles...

[Colliwog]

I prefer Splinter being a rat from the start, and mutating just as the Turtles had. :3

[Magneto]

Gotta go with the general consensus.

Comic book origin.

[Bigfoot]

Comic Book Origin All The Way!!!

Rat to mutated rat is soooooo much more believable than human to mutated rat. Duh! lol...

[shuriken]

Comic book origin due to the fact that in the cartoon he should have been a rat/turtle mutant crossbreed that I imagine would be pretty grotesque.

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[Krang]

Well, considering the cartoon had a huge plot hole in it, since he actually was in conctact with the turtles closer to having contact with the rats, I'm going for the comic version.
No, he stepped in the mutagen before ever touching the mutagen-covered turtles, so he had already begun mutating into a rat. At that point, it didn't matter that he made contact with the turtles since he was already a mutant. Makes sense to me.

Yeah I know I messed up when I made it
No problem, I fixed it and reset the vote counts to 0 (feel free to vote again, everyone).

[sdp]

I'm with Krang it makes perfect sense when I was a kid and now.


As to which origin I prefer, the Toon origin. It gives the character more dept and more "tragic". I always found the rat learning martial arts from its cage silly.

[Leonardo_]

I agree, sdp. The same goes for me.

[Drtooth]

No, he stepped in the mutagen before ever touching the mutagen-covered turtles, so he had already begun mutating into a rat. At that point, it didn't matter that he made contact with the turtles since he was already a mutant. Makes sense to me.



Mmmh... I have to rewatch the episode for that. Good eye Krang.

[odupianist]

But the show made it seem like he was with the turtles constantly hence my thinking (as well as others) that he should have had some turtle in his mutation.

EDIT: Think about it like this... (and this has even changed my thinking a bit about it)

Bebop and Rocksteady... I'm sure they had been around other animals more than a rhino and warthog before being mutated. Maybe they had a pet cat or were around stray cats (being in a gang and all). Then all of a sudden they're both next to a rhino and warthog and BAM that's what they become. Granted, they were both within proximy of the rhino AND warthog, so therefore they both should have had similar traits of both animals. We need to find the clip or something (I had no luck on YouTube) so we can see how Yoshi's transformation happens. Krang makes a valid point, but I never saw it like that. I saw it as who he spent more time with, but if that was the case, Rocksteady and Bebop could have had other animal traits as well. So, yeah

[Tinuvielsdreams]

Too me it makes better sense and aids the story flow if he starts as a pet rat. It's more appropriate. I think if the turtles start as animals he should too. It was the way he was meant to be anyway

[Rooish]

Both versions are kind of flawed. I probably prefer Splinter's origin in the cartoon better, because it's just effing stupid that Splinter was able to learn ninjitsu as a pet rat. Yes, rats are smart. No, they cannot learn ninjitsu.

But I like Hamato Yoshi's story better in the comics. It's a little more violent and tragic. Although in the comics, Hamato Yoshi killed Oroku Saki's brother before Saki killed him, so that's a little morally sketchy.

And I do like the comics idea of the mutagen turning things into smarter, bigger, more humanoid animals.

[Jester]

I'm on the fence too. I liked the OT origin as a kid, added to the Shredder/Splinter drama, though in retrospect, what the heck made Yoshi and Saki so bitter enemies? Saki's ambition? The comic origin shocked me a bit in the 1st movie, but it made sence to me and as others have said the biggest problem is the whole "mimicing his movements from my cage and learning the secret art of ninja." [Really with Seth and Amy mode]Really? Just by mimicing a ninjas movements you can become a ninja...really...[/Really with Seth and Amy mode] But I like both, though I was "brought up" on the OT/Archie origin.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I'm fine with a rat learning ninjitsu, since the comic was originally meant to be a parody anyway. We're already suspending disbelief for a radioactive goo making turtles bigger and smarter and aliens that look like brains, I can definitely buy into a rat learning martial arts at that point.

[Rooish]

I dunno ... I mean, i know we're suspending disbelief and all, but I like to think of the TMNT universe as a normal world that has been touched by the supernatural. So Splinter should have been, I think, a normal rat, until he came in contact with the mutagen. But he was ... a super-rat already.

[Coola Yagami]

Well, the thing is, Mutagen turns you into the last thing you touched. Bebop and Rocksteady were probably made to touch, pet or get licked by the rhino and the warthog before Shredder spilled the Mutagen on them. Maybe Yoshi had a few rats around him before he touched the turtles. He was taking a stroll down the sewers before he came back and found the turtles in the ooze.

Their bitter rivarly... hm... Shredder got Yoshi kicked out of his own clan, plus, he turned the 'once noble Foot Clan' into 'an army of crime'.... and deep down he knows Splinter's the only one that can kick his ass in a fight, should he interfere with his plans... so yeah... Splinter hates Shredder... and Shredder wants Splinter taken out.

As for the rat version... I think Eastman and Laird already went back and said he was some kind of super-rat already, since not only did he learn martial arts from a cage, he also lived over 10 or so years BEFORE encountering the ooze, which already surpasses the hell out of normal rat years. Adding the 15 years it took for the turtles to fully mutate, Splinter shouldn't have been alive in the first TMNT issue.

[Lady R. Santi]

I voted neutral because I prefer neither. I like pieces of both. I like the fact that Hamato Yoshi is a man and yes, Tang Shen was a great story. IMHO, I think he should have been left human. There is more believability to it. And a lot of people joke about four mutant turtles being a bit unbelievable but if they're the weirdest thing in the story then it's not so bad. But a rat who learned ninja from his cage...:ohwell: If I could change anything about the TMNT, this would be it.

[Zog the Equalizer]

I prefer the comics. As far as a rat learning ninjutsu, I'd like to think that Splinter observed Yoshi's routine and remembered it and was able to comprehend and mimic it after he became intelligent. (I am aware that the comic showed him mimicking Yoshi as a rat so dont bite my head off about my theory being inconsistent with it)

[Mecha Cow]

I prefer the comics. As far as a rat learning ninjutsu, I'd like to think that Splinter observed Yoshi's routine and remembered it and was able to comprehend and mimic it after he became intelligent. (I am aware that the comic showed him mimicking Yoshi as a rat so dont bite my head off about my theory being inconsistent with it)
I agree, this has always been my interpretation as well. What was shown in the very first issue was never meant to be entirely serious anyway since it was intended to be a parody comic at the time.

[odupianist]

It was meant to be parody AND it was only supposed to be one issue.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Maybe it will be one of the things Laird goes George Lucas on?:roll:

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[Scandia]

I think that if Kevin and Peter redid the story, they would keep Splinter's origins.

Had they kept Splinter's story straight across all universes, the competition for my absolute favorite would be an even closer call between the 2k3 toon and the Archie comic (but 2k3 would still win due to its Leonardo focus).

They could have still had the betrayal and expulsion plot with Splinter as Yoshi's rat. Yoshi would have passed away of sadness and Splinter could still want to avenge him in a way.

[ZariusTwo]

Cartoon origin, it's just more comical to think they took an origin THAT dark and made it something that could be easily accessible

I've always loved innovation over the original idea

[odupianist]

Okay, NO ONE can say a rat learning ninjitsu from a cage is silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable. We all love a show about four mutated ninja turtles, I mean really.

[BigApple3AM]

I always looked at the cartoon origin like Ooze/Mutagen combines the subjects DNA with the last thing that touched them's DNA.
Therefore, splinter's transformation scene could go like so:
Yoshi touches turtles, then touches rats. Turtles come in contact with mutagen, Yoshi comes in contact with mutagen. Turtles then change into half way to humans, and Hamato Yoshi turns half way into a rat.

[Time Mistress]

Neutral. They both work. I'm more used to the comic origin now, but I find I still quite like the OT one.

[Coola Yagami]

Maybe it will be one of the things Laird goes George Lucas on?:roll:

They already did when they started saying Splinter wasn't really an ordinary rat to begin with...

Okay, NO ONE can say a rat learning ninjitsu from a cage is silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable. We all love a show about four mutated ninja turtles, I mean really.

Except for the fact that it was supposed to be a normal non-mutant rat learning ninjitsu. I mean... at least the turtles weren't already bustin one-liners and wisecracks when they were still pets swimming around a glass bowl.

[Sage Ninja]

I prefere the classic cartoon origin of Splinter being Yoshi that was framed by Shredder and cast out of the foot clan so that Shredder could take his place.

I just think that the bitter rivalry between Yoshi and Saki was a good one and added something to the whole plot. However I really wish that the old show had gone more deeply into the Saki being Yoshi's student angle a bit more. You never really know why exactly Saki hated Yoshi so much other than the fact that he hates says he he hates him. And it would have been nice to find out when exactly Shredder became the Shredder.

[KROW]

I prefer the comics. As far as a rat learning ninjutsu, I'd like to think that Splinter observed Yoshi's routine and remembered it and was able to comprehend and mimic it after he became intelligent. (I am aware that the comic showed him mimicking Yoshi as a rat so dont bite my head off about my theory being inconsistent with it)


I agree, this has always been my interpretation as well. What was shown in the very first issue was never meant to be entirely serious anyway since it was intended to be a parody comic at the time.


It was meant to be parody AND it was only supposed to be one issue.


Okay, NO ONE can say a rat learning ninjitsu from a cage is silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable. We all love a show about four mutated ninja turtles, I mean really.

While I understand the first issue was not meant to be taken seriously (after all, the turtles made their printed debut in a book called Gobbledygook with The Flaming Carrot), I still say that a rat -- a normal, average, everyday rat -- learning martial arts from observation in a cage is ridiculous. I can say it's ridiculous, because before the ooze showed up, we readers still had realism when Splinter was recanting his origin.

Although I do like the interpretation here of Splinter being able to hang on to that knowledge after the mutagen made him more intelligent, I think the OT origin made just a little more sense. It's easier to comprehend that a human or animal can transform with the ooze after being in contact with one another.

My take on the comic origin, after waving off the rat-mimicking, is that after being mutated, Splinter found a book on ninjitsu or martial arts (like he did with the Renaissance book) and perhaps had a flash of memory from his time in Yoshi's house.

I'm still borderline on both origins, though. I like the comic for its originality and the OT's for its charm.

[Coola Yagami]

Saki was probably jealous that Ysoshi was a better fighter than him and leader of the Foot. He probably felt he'd be a much better leader. I guess, to not risk that Yoshi would one day return to defeat him or expose him, he followed him to New York and tried to kill him off with the Mutagen.


Shouldn't Krang have told Shredder what exactly the ****in Mutagen DOES before giving it to him to destroy Yoshi? And just how did Krang know that 'Yoshi was given the powers of the rats'??? Just how long were Shredder and Krang spying on them and how come they don't know the location of their lair????

[Lady R. Santi]

Okay, NO ONE can say a rat learning ninjitsu from a cage is silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable. We all love a show about four mutated ninja turtles, I mean really.

LOL. I came just short of using one of those choice adjectives in my previous post and I TOTALLY understand what your saying but I must add...

WE CAN. It is possible that even within silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable ideas can reside even more silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable ideas...not that I'm saying the TMNT are silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable, I'm just saying --it can happen.:D

[comixfan]

I voted for neutral, because both origins are very interesting. I used to only appreciate the one from the old cartoon series, because the thought of Hamato Yoshi and Splinter being the same person was an interesting concept, especially when you think of the level of training the TMNT got.

But the comic book origin is much more dramatic and makes the Splinter character more meaningful, as he tries to be as good of a sensei to the Turtles as Yoshi was to him.

[Serp]

I perfer the old toon Cartoon orgin. I just thinks it works better and I didn't find it that complicated to follow.

[Rooish]

While I understand the first issue was not meant to be taken seriously (after all, the turtles made their printed debut in a book called Gobbledygook with The Flaming Carrot), I still say that a rat -- a normal, average, everyday rat -- learning martial arts from observation in a cage is ridiculous. I can say it's ridiculous, because before the ooze showed up, we readers still had realism when Splinter was recanting his origin.

Although I do like the interpretation here of Splinter being able to hang on to that knowledge after the mutagen made him more intelligent, I think the OT origin made just a little more sense. It's easier to comprehend that a human or animal can transform with the ooze after being in contact with one another.

My take on the comic origin, after waving off the rat-mimicking, is that after being mutated, Splinter found a book on ninjitsu or martial arts (like he did with the Renaissance book) and perhaps had a flash of memory from his time in Yoshi's house.

I'm still borderline on both origins, though. I like the comic for its originality and the OT's for its charm.

Right on. Thanks for expressing what I am not articulate enough to explain. :)

[jestermon]

I think the human-cartoon version makes the most sense,the fact that he had books is alot more likely then finding reference materials lost in the sewer.

I am bias as I grew up on the toon and did not even know about the comic untill some time later.

I still have not read massive amounts of the comic, but I do have the jist of the material, the super rat thing was quite odd in the movie to me as well.

[Dinobot]

Got to be the comics for me too - as has been said, there's a major plot flaw with the animated series since he was in contact with the Turtles last. It also makes more sense with Splinter being old since Hamato Yoshi looked like he was in his thirties at the most.

[Raphael91]

I like the cartoon version more, makes a lot more sense that a human that turned into a rat is trained as a ninja and is interested in art ("named the turtles after renaissance masters"). ordinary rats probably just think of cheese and their own survival :lol: that´s also the origin story i grew up with.

like when spiderman got his powers by that spider he was also able to shot web out of his wrist, didn´t need any mechanical web shooters to do that like some comics tell. i actually got pretty mad once when i was 7 or something when one dude said "look i have a webshooter like spiderman does"
"HE DOESN`T HAVE WEBSHOTERS IDIOT, IT COMES FROM HIS WRISTS!!!1! :x

:P

[Revan]

I like the cartoon version more, makes a lot more sense that a human that turned into a rat is trained as a ninja and is interested in art ("named the turtles after renaissance masters"). ordinary rats probably just think of cheese and their own survival :lol: that´s also the origin story i grew up with.

I thought that too a while ago. "How can a rat learn ninjitsu?" The conclusion I came to was that splinter watched yoshi practice his ninjitsu while he was still a normal rat. Then after the mutagen enhanced his body and mind, the memories were unlocked and he could remember and mimic the movements that he suddenly remembered. My theory, the mutagen caused his memories to become more vivid re-creatable

I like the comic origin best. The most popular confusion I see though is that question "How can a rat do that?"

[Buslady]

#1 Splinter could watch and later on as his brain developed remembered thsoe movements. No way a real rat can do such things.
#2 I voted Original origins just cos I prefer orginal concepts over ones that were milked down for kiddie shows.
#3 Splinter is a selfish rat. Raising the turtles solely to kill some guy to avenge the death of his owner. yay. Using them for his own purpose. I wish one of them had said NO before going out to kill Shreds. After raising them, becoming a father, teacher, sensei, etc. and emotionally attatched, how could he send them off to their possible death? He's a rat! :P

[Revan]

#3 Splinter is a selfish rat. Raising the turtles solely to kill some guy to avenge the death of his owner. yay. Using them for his own purpose. I wish one of them had said NO before going out to kill Shreds. After raising them, becoming a father, teacher, sensei, etc. and emotionally attatched, how could he send them off to their possible death? He's a rat! :P

That was actually something I liked about the comics. I was one who saw the shows and movies before reading the books and it was nice to see a different version of splinter. One who knows of honor but still not perfect. It made him seem more realistic because most people know what it's like to want revenge.

[Coola Yagami]

like when spiderman got his powers by that spider he was also able to shot web out of his wrist, didn´t need any mechanical web shooters to do that like some comics tell. i actually got pretty mad once when i was 7 or something when one dude said "look i have a webshooter like spiderman does"
"HE DOESN`T HAVE WEBSHOTERS IDIOT, IT COMES FROM HIS WRISTS!!!1! :x

:P


Umm dude.... Spiderman DID use mechanical webshooters.... the comics came first, so what they say goes and without them there wouldn't be a movie to begin with. The new movies don't count as actual comics-canon. And BTW for a time, Spidey got the ability to shoot webbing from his wrists in the comics (due to how popular the movies were), but currently, he lost that ability and went back to the webshooters.

[Krang]

Got to be the comics for me too - as has been said, there's a major plot flaw with the animated series since he was in contact with the Turtles last.
A common misconception, but that's not quite what happened.

[JusticeForce]

Umm dude.... Spiderman DID use mechanical webshooters.... the comics came first, so what they say goes and without them there wouldn't be a movie to begin with. Quoted for truth. :D Spider-Man created his web-shooters in his first appearance / origin story in Amazing Fantasy No. 15, which came out waaaaaay back in 1962.

However, I can sympathize with Raphael 91's confusion because I saw the old TMNT cartoon first and was going WTF when I saw Splinter's origin in the first movie. It too me a couple of years to finally sort out which was the original origin.

And that's the origin I voted for: the comic book one. It just makes more science-fiction-y sense to me for the Utrom's ooze to accidentally change both a rat and a turtle into something more humanoid, than for Shredder to send Krang's mutagen into the sewers in hopes that it would somehow reach his old rival and somehow change him into something that would no longer be a threat to him.

[odupianist]

Splinter can learn ninjitsu just as turtles can mutate from an ooze that came from brain like aliens lol

[Masked Ninja]

I always thought the "stepping in the ooze first" thing saved their plot hole, but only barely. Mutation is not an instant process (though in the original it does happen pretty fast), and Yoshi would have had only traces of rat to react with the ooze. Then he picks up a Turtle... direct contact, and the thing is even covered in ooze itself! He should probably be a mostly turtle, partly rat mutant, unless the mutagen itself is sentient and knows "aha! He touched a RAT most recently!"

Or they should have animated him turning into a rat as soon as he made contact, and dispensed with the whole "pick up the ooze'd turtle" scene. It would have made things much clearer. I guess I'll call it poor storyboarding and get on with my life. :P

[Spike Spiegel]

I say the comic is better. The death of Hamato Yoshi, in a sense, has defined who Master Splinter is. If Splinter IS Yoshi...well...to me, there's just not as much depth.

I'm glad they used the comic origin in the movies. Makes so much more sense.

[Krang]

I always thought the "stepping in the ooze first" thing saved their plot hole, but only barely. Mutation is not an instant process (though in the original it does happen pretty fast), and Yoshi would have had only traces of rat to react with the ooze. Then he picks up a Turtle... direct contact, and the thing is even covered in ooze itself! He should probably be a mostly turtle, partly rat mutant, unless the mutagen itself is sentient and knows "aha! He touched a RAT most recently!"
Good point. I guess the best explanation for that would be that mutagen can only combine two types of creatures and no more than that. By the time Splinter had picked up the turtles, he had already begun transforming into a mutant rat, so his contact with the turtles wouldn't count toward his mutation. It may not be very realistic (then again, these are Ninja Turtles we're talking about ;) ), but it still makes sense.

I guess I'll call it poor storyboarding and get on with my life. :P
That explanation works, too. :lol:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The 1987 cartoon. The silliest thing with the 1984 comics is not Splinter learning ninjutsu, but Splinter knowing how to read, he named the TMNT after renaissance names in an old comic book.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Umm dude.... Spiderman DID use mechanical webshooters.... the comics came first, so what they say goes and without them there wouldn't be a movie to begin with. The new movies don't count as actual comics-canon. And BTW for a time, Spidey got the ability to shoot webbing from his wrists in the comics (due to how popular the movies were), but currently, he lost that ability and went back to the webshooters.

I kind of prefer the webs coming from his wrist. It makes him more spider-like, plus in the movies it made him seem a little more like an average guy getting these powers, as opposed to a high school kid being amazingly smart and knowing how to replicate a spider's silk.