View Full Version : TMNT Movie 2, Casey Jones, ...?
Hey guys,
Just wondering why they didn't integrate Casey Jones in the second live movie? I mean, was it because it didn't come along in the story line, the actor refused the role, took out his character as they found he was to " violent " for the second movie ( as we all know, it was mostly directed to a younger audience), etc.
I was just wondering if anybody knew something I don't.
Thanks,
Ron
Mecha Cow
10-21-2008, 04:28 PM
Apparently parents complained he was too reminiscent of Jason Voorhees or something.
CyberCubed
10-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Because we needed Keno, the pizza delivery boy!
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-21-2008, 04:37 PM
Apparently parents complained he was too reminiscent of Jason Voorhees or something.
Who cares? I didn't even know who Jason Voorhees was at that time, just thought Casey Jones was the original.
Scrabblemouse
10-22-2008, 11:07 AM
Apparently parents complained he was too reminiscent of Jason Voorhees or something.
Haha! Now that would have been interesting....:lol:
You could have Shredder as Hannibal Lecter! They have a similar face-plate...
Apparently parents complained he was too reminiscent of Jason Voorhees or something.
Yeah, either that, or they didn't want their kids going ape with sports gear -- or both.
DonatelloDomeHead31
10-22-2008, 04:30 PM
Isn't it true that with the 2nd movie they were trying to focus on the original ninja turtles cartoon before the episode that introduced Casey Jones? That's why the turtles didn't use their weapons and Michelangelo made so many jokes?
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-22-2008, 04:47 PM
Isn't it true that with the 2nd movie they were trying to focus on the original ninja turtles cartoon before the episode that introduced Casey Jones? That's why the turtles didn't use their weapons and Michelangelo made so many jokes?
Casey Jones first appeared in the 1987 cartoon during season 3 (1989) with the episode "Casey Jones: Outlaw Hero". But that episode didn't play a very important role in that cartoon.
Isn't it true that with the 2nd movie they were trying to focus on the original ninja turtles cartoon before the episode that introduced Casey Jones? That's why the turtles didn't use their weapons and Michelangelo made so many jokes?
No, it was because parents b*tched about the use of weapons. It's clear in the beginning of the film when Mikey uses hot dogs and a yo-yo, Don pretends to be that clown toy, Leo throws his katana in the ceiling, and Raph uses the pommels of his sai.
Spitfire
10-23-2008, 01:45 PM
You guys have any proof for these claims or are they assumptions? You don't often see the format of a successful movie changed just because a few people complained. Controversy breeds more ticket sales.
CudleyCowlick
10-23-2008, 03:25 PM
You guys have any proof for these claims or are they assumptions? You don't often see the format of a successful movie changed just because a few people complained. Controversy breeds more ticket sales.
Very true, and I'm sure that much of this is indeed speculation. But how much of the early 90s do you recall, Spit? Things were more than just a little PC and it seems that any lame ass parental/religious/what-have-you group with a ridiculous complaint tended to get their way. Even big business bowed down before the moral crusaders much of the time.
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-23-2008, 05:48 PM
No, it was because parents b*tched about the use of weapons. It's clear in the beginning of the film when Mikey uses hot dogs and a yo-yo, Don pretends to be that clown toy, Leo throws his katana in the ceiling, and Raph uses the pommels of his sai.
And it was even worse in the third with the lack of the TMNT's weapon use.
Spitfire
10-23-2008, 07:37 PM
Very true, and I'm sure that much of this is indeed speculation. But how much of the early 90s do you recall, Spit? Things were more than just a little PC and it seems that any lame ass parental/religious/what-have-you group with a ridiculous complaint tended to get their way. Even big business bowed down before the moral crusaders much of the time.
Not enough I guess. I don't remember it being that bad, course my memories of the early 90's are fuzzy. All I know is kids movies and shows got away with a hell of a lot more then they do now.
Jester
10-23-2008, 08:09 PM
Heck Mikey's nunchucks were 86ed because of parental complaints, and it wasn't even Americans. I'm sure that the movie was toned down due to complaints from soccer moms, but I'm not sure that's why TMNT 2 lacked Casey.
DonatelloDomeHead31
10-24-2008, 12:37 AM
No, it was because parents b*tched about the use of weapons. It's clear in the beginning of the film when Mikey uses hot dogs and a yo-yo, Don pretends to be that clown toy, Leo throws his katana in the ceiling, and Raph uses the pommels of his sai.
Yeah, the only turtle that used his weapon against the foot soldiers was Donatello. Also, he used it against Tokka. Also at the lab with the foot, Leo uses those training sticks against the foot and not his swords.
Fighting did happen (obviously) but very brief.
Coola Yagami
10-24-2008, 01:31 AM
I thought TMNT III brought back weapon use?
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-24-2008, 06:24 AM
I thought TMNT III brought back weapon use?
Yes, but it was never in such a violent way as Mirage. And "Next Mutation" had not much weapon use.
odupianist
10-24-2008, 08:20 AM
You guys have any proof for these claims or are they assumptions? You don't often see the format of a successful movie changed just because a few people complained. Controversy breeds more ticket sales.
If you watch "Behind the Shells" (which I used to have on VHS), I vaguely remember PL saying something about parents complaining about weapons and violence.
Yeah, the only turtle that used his weapon against the foot soldiers was Donatello. Also, he used it against Tokka. Also at the lab with the foot, Leo uses those training sticks against the foot and not his swords.
Fighting did happen (obviously) but very brief.
Leo used his swords in the mall, but he threw them into the ceiling. Fail!
Evenstar227
10-24-2008, 09:36 AM
TMNT III and Next Mutation were, overall, lesser quality than the first 2 movies. Could the absence of weapon use be blamed on a smaller budget? Crappier costumes which didn't allow for weapons manipulation? Actors who didn't have the ability to wield weapons, and no one to train them? Maybe there were logistical problems in addition to parental outcry.
BigApple3AM
10-24-2008, 11:22 AM
Elias Koteas is most likely responsible for no Casey in the second movie. The turn around for the second movie was like a year from the first one. Elias had 4 other movies in 1990 besides turtles. He probably couldn't make room in his schedule for TMNT 2. TMNT 3 came out a couple years later so he was able to do that one.
shuriken
10-24-2008, 11:41 AM
Elias Koteas is most likely responsible for no Casey in the second movie. The turn around for the second movie was like a year from the first one. Elias had 4 other movies in 1990 besides turtles. He probably couldn't make room in his schedule for TMNT 2. TMNT 3 came out a couple years later so he was able to do that one.
That works for me.
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-24-2008, 02:25 PM
Elias Koteas is most likely responsible for no Casey in the second movie. The turn around for the second movie was like a year from the first one. Elias had 4 other movies in 1990 besides turtles. He probably couldn't make room in his schedule for TMNT 2. TMNT 3 came out a couple years later so he was able to do that one.
Couldn't any other play Casey Jones?
Drtooth
10-24-2008, 03:06 PM
Couldn't any other play Casey Jones?
That brings up an excellent point. I mean, they DID recast April for the last 2 films. They could have easily done the same with ol' Case. So it could have been a mix of both.
I mean, take the Hockey mask away, and you can still have the same character (only not protecting his looks for Hollywood).
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-24-2008, 05:02 PM
That brings up an excellent point. I mean, they DID recast April for the last 2 films. They could have easily done the same with ol' Case. So it could have been a mix of both.
I mean, take the Hockey mask away, and you can still have the same character (only not protecting his looks for Hollywood).
He doesn't need to take the mask off at tall.
You guys have any proof for these claims or are they assumptions? You don't often see the format of a successful movie changed just because a few people complained. Controversy breeds more ticket sales.
Back when TMNT2 was about to be in theaters, Showtime put on a little promotion special called the "Turtle Spectacular." It showed an environmental fundraiser, a behind-the-scenes look at the making of the film, and then a showing of the first movie. In the behind-the-scenes bit, the producers said in an interview that there was "an outcry" about the use of the weapons and they decided to change things.
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-25-2008, 04:47 PM
Back when TMNT2 was about to be in theaters, Showtime put on a little promotion special called the "Turtle Spectacular." It showed an environmental fundraiser, a behind-the-scenes look at the making of the film, and then a showing of the first movie. In the behind-the-scenes bit, the producers said in an interview that there was "an outcry" about the use of the weapons and they decided to change things.
But wasn't the outcry about the use of the weapons more in the UK than the USA?
Coola Yagami
10-25-2008, 09:22 PM
But wasn't the outcry about the use of the weapons more in the UK than the USA?
Probably also had to do with Raph's brutal beating and all the times Raph said 'DAMN!!!'
shuriken
10-25-2008, 11:23 PM
Probably also had to do with Raph's brutal beating and all the times Raph said 'DAMN!!!'
He did get a rather brutal beat down didn't he? That was beautiful how it went back and forth forom Raph's fight to April's store.
DonatelloDomeHead31
10-26-2008, 12:52 AM
someone mentioned no weapons use in the UK. anyways, I remember that the UK was against nunchuks that Michaelangelo uses, so thats how the grappling hook came into effect. It started happening in the original series, remember?
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-26-2008, 08:48 AM
someone mentioned no weapons use in the UK. anyways, I remember that the UK was against nunchuks that Michaelangelo uses, so thats how the grappling hook came into effect. It started happening in the original series, remember?
Yes, I've also heard the UK edited out scenes where he used the nunchuks and that't why he begun to use the grappling hook. I hated the grappling hook as that because it's originally just a tool the TMNT use to climb buildings, and it shall stay there and not be a personal weapon.
Coola Yagami
10-26-2008, 09:54 AM
He did get a rather brutal beat down didn't he? That was beautiful how it went back and forth forom Raph's fight to April's store.
Yeah, but imagine the lil kiddies seeing their favorite wisecrackin herpo being beaten half to death. I mean he was out for quite a while in the movie till he finally recovered, so it wasn't like he just passed out for a few minutes or anything...
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-26-2008, 12:16 PM
Casey Jones or not, but I like the second movie.
Oh I do too. But, it's nothing compared to the first one.
-Ron
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-26-2008, 12:30 PM
Oh I do too. But, it's nothing compared to the first one.
-Ron
I agree, but not just because of Casey Jones.
Andrew NDB
10-26-2008, 02:00 PM
Elias Koteas would have loved to do TMNT II.
And Peter Laird in particular -- and he'll tell you this -- was fighting tooth and nail to get the studio on board to bring back Casey Jones in TMNT II. He just couldn't sell them on it, for whatever reason.
Probably yeah, the weapons thing. Spineless pricks.
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-26-2008, 02:44 PM
Elias Koteas would have loved to do TMNT II.
And Peter Laird in particular -- and he'll tell you this -- was fighting tooth and nail to get the studio on board to bring back Casey Jones in TMNT II. He just couldn't sell them on it, for whatever reason.
Probably yeah, the weapons thing. Spineless pricks.
But if he had been there, he should fight the Foot Clan members, not Rahzar and Tokka (it would work if it had been Bebop and Rocksteady).
Andrew NDB
10-26-2008, 03:10 PM
But if he had been there, he should fight the Foot Clan members, not Rahzar and Tokka (it would work if it had been Bebop and Rocksteady).
It might as well have been Bebop and Rocksteady with how goofy and campy that movie was, but I don't know if that would have made it "work."
But who Casey would fight is irrelevant. Casey's whole schdict is his weapons, his baseball bats, clubs, hockey sticks, etc., and TMNT II's big thing was "No one can use their weapons!!!"
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-26-2008, 04:03 PM
It might as well have been Bebop and Rocksteady with how goofy and campy that movie was, but I don't know if that would have made it "work."
But who Casey would fight is irrelevant. Casey's whole schdict is his weapons, his baseball bats, clubs, hockey sticks, etc., and TMNT II's big thing was "No one can use their weapons!!!"
Casey Jones weapons are not designed for combat, they're just sports equipment that he uses as weapons. But more kids have ice hockey sticks and baseball bats at home than ninjutsu weapons (even if nunckuks are easy to make).
Jester
10-26-2008, 04:08 PM
Indeed, kids could get their tee-ball bat and be all, "I'm Casey Jones." That may have lead to his deletion in favor of Keno, some one more relateable to kids.
Wait...wha...that seems backwards.
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-26-2008, 04:17 PM
Indeed, kids could get their tee-ball bat and be all, "I'm Casey Jones." That may have lead to his deletion in favor of Keno, some one more relateable to kids.
Wait...wha...that seems backwards.
Yes, but kids can run around punching and kicking other people, shouting: "I'm Keno".
Andrew NDB
10-26-2008, 04:21 PM
But more kids have ice hockey sticks and baseball bats at home than ninjutsu weapons
I think that was exactly the concern.
Yes, but kids can run around punching and kicking other people, shouting: "I'm Keno".
Since most of his fighting was high-flying martial arts, I think they assessed the risk level of that to be pretty low.
Yes, but kids can run around punching and kicking other people, shouting: "I'm Keno".
Any kid shouting that deserved to be whacked with a golf bag by another kid shouting, "I'm Casey Jones."
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-26-2008, 04:24 PM
Any kid shouting that deserved to be whacked with a golf bag by another kid shouting, "I'm Casey Jones."
Also remember, from the 1987 cartoon, girls can steal their mothers handbags, beating people with them shouting "I'm Irma!" "Women fight with handbags". :lol:
Jester
10-26-2008, 04:35 PM
Any kid shouting that deserved to be whacked with a golf bag by another kid shouting, "I'm Casey Jones."
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/MeKeno.jpg
I'm waiting!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/MeKeno.jpg
I'm waiting!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/BJKROW/MISC/case-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/BJKROW/MISC/case2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/BJKROW/MISC/case3.jpg
Not a golf bag, but it'll do.
Jester
10-26-2008, 07:01 PM
Ok, ok, I'm sorry.
*massages jaw.*
New Casey question: Where is he from originally? I know Elias is Canadian, could Casey, hockey nut that he is be a native Canadian?
New Casey question: Where is he from originally? I know Elias is Canadian, could Casey, hockey nut that he is be a native Canadian?
Many sites reference he's from New York City. I'm willing to bet he's from Brooklyn, specifically.
BigApple3AM
10-26-2008, 09:08 PM
I forgot about Keno. He kinda was the replacement for Casey wasn't he? I don't really mind, I like Keno. Same with Tokka Rahzar, sure it would have been insane to have bebop and rocksteady all huge like that in the movie, but we got 2 new characters instead which is just as cool to me (and that's only cuz Casey kicked so much ass in TMNT 1 that he deserved the break ;))
Spitfire
10-26-2008, 11:43 PM
I preferred Casey wasn't in the second movie anyway. There was no reason for him to be there. Keno needed to be there otherwise no one would have been able to enter the Foot Base. The story would have been altered. The only scene I could see Casey showing up would be when the turtles get trapped at the junk yard and that scene was written just so Splinter had something to do.
Casey needs to be portrayed in the insane violent way that he is. These kids movies aren't the place for that. He could have his own movies almost. I'd actually like to see that. He's interesting enough on his own to warrant that.
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-27-2008, 11:43 AM
I preferred Casey wasn't in the second movie anyway. There was no reason for him to be there. Keno needed to be there otherwise no one would have been able to enter the Foot Base. The story would have been altered. The only scene I could see Casey showing up would be when the turtles get trapped at the junk yard and that scene was written just so Splinter had something to do.
Casey needs to be portrayed in the insane violent way that he is. These kids movies aren't the place for that. He could have his own movies almost. I'd actually like to see that. He's interesting enough on his own to warrant that.
Yeah, "Casey Jones: the Movie" sounds cool, and the TMNT can appear in it too.
Coola Yagami
10-27-2008, 06:31 PM
Yeah, "Casey Jones: the Movie" sounds cool, and the TMNT can appear in it too.
Sadly who would watch us besides us hardcore TMNT fans? Without the turtles he's just some dude that wears a hockey mask and fights with bats and golf clubs. It would be like making.. Commisioner Gordon- the Movie!! or Mary Jane Watson- the Movie!!!
turkishproverb
10-28-2008, 12:11 AM
NOt if you don't market it as a turtle spinoff. Market it as a vigilante guy losing his mind movie.
NOt if you don't market it as a turtle spinoff. Market it as a vigilante guy losing his mind movie.
Like The Punisher?
Spitfire
10-28-2008, 12:54 AM
Sadly who would watch us besides us hardcore TMNT fans? Without the turtles he's just some dude that wears a hockey mask and fights with bats and golf clubs. It would be like making.. Commisioner Gordon- the Movie!! or Mary Jane Watson- the Movie!!!
Give him an interesting background. Some origins, a purpose, a reason, a great story. It wouldn't be hard. Focus on his nightmares. Leave the turtles out of it.
He's not like the Punisher but that could help market it. If the movie is made well it doesn't matter. But that will never happen.
turkishproverb
10-28-2008, 09:56 PM
Like The Punisher?
Only up close and personal instead of guns. And probably less torture that doesn't involve brutal beatings. And a little more humor, maybe pop culture cliche's given how listening to TV did alot of the screwing him up in mirage. Hmm..
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