Peter Laird announces today that vol 4 will not be published

[staypuftweepel]

I know that he's grown tired of the franchise and everything, but this totally sucks. If he puts up 31 and 32 on the internet I'll be happy to be able to read them, but I was really looking forward to more actual books. It's just not the same.

[Cowabunga Carl]

That does suck. I really like having the printed issue in my hand. I'm sure there will be someone or something that can print them and bind them for me if and when he does release them on the web. Hell I don't care that I was paying $10 for an issue.

[VaughnMichael]

I will just be happy if I can save them to my computer and read them at this point.

[John Pannozzi]

BTW, you can find what he said here (http://plairdblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/falling-away.html).

So, basically, he might have the last two issues finished and published online, and then maybe post a beefed version of his plans for the concluding issues online. That's good enough for me (though I still want to see the rest of Gang Wars published, which Laird wouldn't even have to be involved with creatively).

[plastroncafe]

SO much cognitive dissonance, so little time.
*sighs*

[DrSpengler]

To be honest, I didn't even buy #29 and #30, I was happy to save them to my hardrive and be done with it.

I know not everyone feels that way, and to those of you who were willing to throw down the $10 bucks plus shipping for the things, I'm sorry, but this is no skin of my nose, personally.

As it stands, I've kind of lost my enthusiasm for Volume 4 and I don't particularly care if its storylines are ever resolved or not. I detested much of what Laird wrote and simply stopped caring after a while.

Laird's business model has been "If you don't like it, don't buy it". So I won't. But I'll be happy to download them if you make them available. If you don't? Meh. I don't really care.

[Cowabunga Carl]

It comes down to the fact that I prefer to read things offline. I like sitting down with comics or taking them with me when I have to wait for people/things. I would like to be able to take the end with me and not have to carry a laptop.

[DrSpengler]

I also prefer to read comics on paper and really don't like reading comics on my computer.

However, I don't like paying $10 bucks for a comic I don't enjoy even more. So getting them for free online is fine with me in regards to a comic I don't like but would like to have available to review on my site, anyway.

[Cowabunga Carl]

That makes since Spengler. I did enjoy it for the most part. Though I think Liard had gone a little to sci-fi out there with it as of late. I'm just hoping if he does release these two volumes online i can save them and then find someone to print them for me and make a nice volume of them.

[Kendamu]

Just another reason for me to forget about Mirage's TMNT for awhile, minus seeing what would've been the conclusion.

[Master Splinter]

If he does post them online that will be fine by me. Gives me a chance to read them and save them to my PC. I do enjoy having the printed comic but if I was going to get nothing or get an online version, I think I would have to go with the online version.

-ms

[ToTheNines]

To be honest, I didn't even buy #29 and #30, I was happy to save them to my hardrive and be done with it.

I know not everyone feels that way, and to those of you who were willing to throw down the $10 bucks plus shipping for the things, I'm sorry, but this is no skin of my nose, personally.

As it stands, I've kind of lost my enthusiasm for Volume 4 and I don't particularly care if its storylines are ever resolved or not. I detested much of what Laird wrote and simply stopped caring after a while.

Laird's business model has been "If you don't like it, don't buy it". So I won't. But I'll be happy to download them if you make them available. If you don't? Meh. I don't really care.

Ya read my mind.

Also, I know alot of guys here do a pretty mean imitation of Jim Lawsons style (Powder and [i think] Demon-Alukard) so I expect to see Peters "beefed up" plot outlines to be seen as an online fan comic. Which is fine by me :)

[Powder]

Ya read my mind.

Also, I know alot of guys here do a pretty mean imitation of Jim Lawsons style (Powder and [i think] Demon-Alukard) so I expect to see Peters "beefed up" plot outlines to be seen as an online fan comic. Which is fine by me :)

Ya read MY mind!

[Buffy]

Ya read MY mind!

Mine too! :)

[jaymq]

I didn't get the other ones in paper format. There's always printing it personally if I really want a hand held version.

At least this will be online. Hopefully where everyone can see it.

[oldmanwinters]

I'm actually satisfied that we might be getting general plot synopsis for the last few issues. It would be most welcome. And while I wouldn't have paid ten bucks a piece for the next two issues, I would be happy to see them online.

[Demon-Alukard]

Also, I know alot of guys here do a pretty mean imitation of Jim Lawsons style (Powder and [i think] Demon-Alukard) so I expect to see Peters "beefed up" plot outlines to be seen as an online fan comic. Which is fine by me :)
Hey, thanks for the kind words ;) If Peter will put the detailed script in the web, it wouldn't be a problem I think.

[CyberCubed]

I still don't see why he didn't give those same plot summaries to some other writer and have them publish the book.

Jim Lawson would still do the art I assume, PL wouldn't even have to do much other than what he said.

[Adam Riches]

I already replied to the actual post, but basically I view this as one of those "is what it is" kind of things. At least we're getting it in some capacity, and like I said on the blog, I honestly didn't think we were EVER going to get it. If he gives us the art in a high enough dpi, we should have no problems getting it printed up to the same level of quality as the real deal.

Another thing, if anyone has seen some of the plot outline stuff Pete has posted recently then I feel confident we won't be left hanging. He writes the most thorough outlines of anyone I've ever seen, in some cases they're even more fleshed out than the actual issues. So given the alternative, I'm pretty happy they'll at least see the light of day and give the series some closure, even if it's not exactly in the format I would've liked to seen.

[Luzmagica]

Well...at least you are going to see the last issues online !I think its a good new, and maybe later with an online work you can do a "handmade comic book" printing and stapling in a copy-store / press-store! ...so you could get your own paper format! :D

[Andrew NDB]

Ya read MY mind!

Mine too! :)

Mine three.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Yeah I'll print it off when/if it comes out. Try to make it look as nice as I can. I guess I'm still a little sore that I wont be getting any more Mirage Universe TMNT in print.

Hey I also left a message for Tristan Jones on his facebook about if we would see the rest of his Gang Wars arc and got this responce:

Hey there Carl! Sorry I missed you again! I gotta stop leaving the darn thing open when I head out! To answer your question though, no, Pete hasn't mentioned anything yet. I was considering putting it to him just this morning, but I figured I'd wait and see what the fan response was to his blog posts. I guess if people make enough noise he may consider it. I know I'm keen as beans to finish it off... Heck! I'd finish Volume 4 if he gave me the detailed outlines!


I have to say he is a classy fellow. I know he used to post here, not to sure if he still does. I hope he doesn't mind me posting that response for others to see.

[Kendamu]

I'd love if Tristan Jones finished it off! What should I do? Just go to Pete's blog and tell him that?

[Oculus Orbus]

In a way, I still had some hope to see Volume 4 properly finished. This makes me a bit sad, although I see that it could have been a lot worse.

[DrSpengler]

So far as "never being published" goes, they may never be published as individual issues, yeah.

But if some time down the line, if whatever published gets the TMNT license decides to release a trade paperback collection of Volume 4, then they may end up being physically published that way.

So it's at least a possibility in that regard.

[CyberCubed]

Since PL already has the basic story for the last 6 issues done, would it be too much trouble to give those scripts to someone else to publish the last 6 or so issues?

I'm sure Jim Lawson would still do the art especially with a nice paycheck, and so forth.

10 years from now we may have a thread titled, "Would you like to help Volume 4 reach its conclusion?" similar to the Image series thread now.

[sdp]

Even if Laird sold the turtles I still think he wants to have complete control over V.4 which is his and he doesn't want anyone to finish it for him. Kind of selfish if he doesn't want to end it himself.

[DrSpengler]

Even if Laird sold the turtles I still think he wants to have complete control over V.4 which is his and he doesn't want anyone to finish it for him. Kind of selfish if he doesn't want to end it himself.

Peter Laird in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen.

[CyberCubed]

I am so sick of TMNT stories not being finished. Every time there's always an unfinished ending.

Archie's, "Forever War" never happened, the Image series conclusion took 12 years (if it does happen, which I am not so sure), and now Volume 4's ending. Not even counting Tristan's Gang War storyline.

This is just embarrassing. PL can retire from TMNT and live the good life, but at least hand the reigns over to someone else to finish for him.

Its sickening what happens in the TMNT fandom. It feels like every single time the fans patience are being tested with the comic books.

[sdp]

Well I think he will come back to the turtles and definitely plans to, if he didn't then he would let someone else finish V.4 and he would not have put that clause about Mirage being able to publish an X amount of TMNT Mirage universe comics per year. He obviously did this since he wants to just not now. He's just burnt out on the turtles, give him five or ten years and he might want to come back. Of course he could also never return since he might see no need to or he'd just be too old to really care about it but the fact that he put that in speaks that he did care enough to future proof being able to be involved in the future.


@cybercubed you can also add TNM who didn't get a conclusion, 2k3 also had more planned, TMNT2007 set up a sequel, TMNT3 was supposed to get a sequel, the failed CG and WB cartoon, dreamwave comics. OMG its a conspiracy ;)

[DK2]

I didn't read his blog yet but this sucks. I prefer actual comics. Oh well if its online then so be it. Now to read his blog.

[turkishproverb]

Since PL already has the basic story for the last 6 issues done, would it be too much trouble to give those scripts to someone else to publish the last 6 or so issues?

I'm sure Jim Lawson would still do the art especially with a nice paycheck, and so forth.

10 years from now we may have a thread titled, "Would you like to help Volume 4 reach its conclusion?" similar to the Image series thread now.

Doubt it. Image v.3 didn't devolve as much as v4 did. There's a reason it had and has a devoted fanbase.

Just another reason for me to forget about Mirage's TMNT for awhile, minus seeing what would've been the conclusion.

I for one still think of TMNT v3 #23 as the "modern" endpoint, and keep the future bits.

v4 is an odd little else worlds that suffered from severe creator breakdown as time went on.

But that's just me.

[Spitfire]

To stomp on a dead horse all I have to say is I don't care and finish Forever War.

[CyberCubed]

Doubt it. Image v.3 didn't devolve as much as v4 did. There's a reason it had and has a devoted fanbase.

Volume 4 probably had the same fanbase Image had.

And simply for continuity purposes I'd like it finished. I didn't hate Vol. 4, I found the plots interesting just paced badly.

[plastroncafe]

Even if Laird sold the turtles I still think he wants to have complete control over V.4 which is his and he doesn't want anyone to finish it for him. Kind of selfish if he doesn't want to end it himself.

Oh it's totally selfish, but that's not always a bad thing.
I mean, think of this this way:

Laird pretty much sacrificed his entire creative career to/for the Turtles, is it really too much for him to ask that this one little corner of the entire sandbox be left for him, and him alone?

[MrPliggins]

I am so sick of TMNT stories not being finished. Every time there's always an unfinished ending.

Archie's, "Forever War" never happened, the Image series conclusion took 12 years (if it does happen, which I am not so sure), and now Volume 4's ending. Not even counting Tristan's Gang War storyline.


TV series/comics etc. that get cancelled almost never get a conclusion. This isn't just limited to TMNT.

[TMNachoT]

I still don't see why he didn't give those same plot summaries to some other writer and have them publish the book.

Jim Lawson would still do the art I assume, PL wouldn't even have to do much other than what he said.

You are right. If peter wants new stuff in his life, he is free to do so and i wish GOOD luck but he can give the chance to others to continue the work.

[DrSpengler]

I mean, I don't see why he couldn't just give those summaries or outlines straight over to Lawson.

The guy's a writer as much as an artist and someone I'm sure Laird trusts explicitly. He could very easily handle the writing duties for the volume if Laird would let him.

[DK2]

Remember the last two issues of V4 were mail order only and for $10. That print run of what only 1000 copies? In an interview a while ago Peter said he believed 400 copies were sold of #29 at the time. The decision to not print the last completed issues may make even more sense. How many has Mirage sold of those last two issues? That alone maybe why not to bother printing the comics altogether. Even if Peter did make them, does he even pay the staff when these comics aren't even gonna be printed? Theres no money for Peter/Mirage in the end to print these two final issues. What I'm thinking now. Like someone said earlier maybe when trades of V4 is done we'll see them in some printed form.

[Andrew NDB]

The guy's a writer as much as an artist and someone I'm sure Laird trusts explicitly. He could very easily handle the writing duties for the volume if Laird would let him.

Have you seen a Laird Vol. 4 script? I'm not belittling them, but they're not so much "scripts" as they are summaries from which Lawson has to extrapolate dialogue and everything else.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

They're not so much "scripts" as they are summaries from which Lawson has to extrapolate dialogue and everything else.

:tlol: :tlol: :tlol: :tlol:

Seriously though...that only says good things about Lawson.

[Spitfire]

You know some fan is going to make a fan comic out of these scripts when he releases them anyways. All the power too them, I actually hope someone does that.

[TristanHuwJones]

I'm pretty sure Peter puts the dialogue in there too. Certain of it in fact.

[discordiatookie]

Well, I was and am a fan of vol 4, and if I had gotten this news a year ago, i'd be dissapointed. However, from reading between the lines on Laird's blog, I guess I must've been 90% expecting this. I would prefer the actual comic in hand, but I guess I can live with just reading it online. Better than nothing!

Whilst it would be awesome to see other folk take over the reigns and work on vol 4, where would the paychecks be coming from to finish them, without Laird's funding? Us, the fans? How many grumbles were there with the whole spending $10 on a comic when that idea came out? I couldn't see it happen, i'm afraid.

[Spitfire]

If it ensured release I'd help fund a book, I bet a few other fans would too.

[ToTheNines]

If it ensured release I'd help fund a book, I bet a few other fans would too.

I'd help fund more Tales or the completion of the Gang Wars arc... but not volume 4. I'll be happy with the outlines/fan-comic versions of the volume 4 conclusion.

[Spitfire]

I'd help fund more Tales or the completion of the Gang Wars arc... but not volume 4. I'll be happy with the outlines/fan-comic versions of the volume 4 conclusion.

Well yeah same here. I want to see that gang arc fixed and I also want to see "Forever War" damn it.

[Cipher]

Not sure how to feel about this.

On the one hand, I like Volume 4 enough to have waited for completed issues to come out, however long that needed to take.

On the other, at least we're getting wind of its conclusion, even if it is in non-print, non-comic form. C'est la vie.

Ultimately, I still feel that the best choice would have been to pass concepts along to another writer/artist and have it be finished that way. And the fact that no story arc has been properly concluded since "City at War" is kind of inexcusable.

I'm pretty sure Peter puts the dialogue in there too. Certain of it in fact.I was going to say, it certainly seems that way. Lawson is a much better character/dialogue man than that.

[CyberCubed]

I think its disgusting the fans have to make an effort to get an ending because the guys in charge won't give us one.

LMAO, Volume 4 better get in line behind the Image Conclusion and Archie's Forever War.

How sick. Three conclusions now the fans have to do. Its almost as if we now know the routine. Wait 10 years for an ending but the fans have to do it themselves.

[Powder]

I think its disgusting the fans have to make an effort to get an ending because the guys in charge won't give us one.

LMAO, Volume 4 better get in line behind the Image Conclusion and Archie's Forever War.

How sick. Three conclusions now the fans have to do. Its almost as if we now know the routine. Wait 10 years for an ending but the fans have to do it themselves.


One could call it sick, or one could say we're the most hardcore fans of a property. At least we try to keep it alive & aid the other fans. F*ck those in control who won't please the one portion of the fan base they haven't alienated.

[Samhain]

So Laird posted today on his blog about why cant Lawson or some other Mirage guy finish it up. He basically said it is his ''baby'' and that he would rather see it unfinshed. But then also said if Viacom ever wanted to finish it up, they have every right to do so. Wow.

Read here:

http://plairdblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/process.html

[Powder]

Process
Today, June 13, 2010, 11 hours ago | [email protected] (PL)
"‪Dan‬ said...
If you already have the plots written out why not just have Jim and Eric do the comic?"

"Dan" posted this comment to my "Falling Away" blog entry a few days ago, and I thought it reflected a significant enough misunderstanding of what I was trying to do with TMNT Volume 4 that it might be worth expounding upon in a separate blog post instead of just responding in the "Comments" section.

When I started TMNT Volume 4 back in 2001, I didn't have a complete, coherent vision of where I wanted the book to go in terms of plot and action and characters -- that was something I felt would evolve from the story ideas I did have, and that's how (at least as I see it) the series came out.

But I did have a specific way of working in mind, and it differed from the way Jim Lawson and I did the three "Planet Racers" graphic novels together, in several ways. Perhaps the most significant way was that while on "Planet Racers", after discussing the plot with me, Jim would produce layouts with rough dialogue notes which I would later expand, tweak and polish when I did the final lettering, with TMNT I would do all of the dialogue, with no input from Jim. This is not to say that Jim's artwork did not affect my dialogue -- to the contrary, I often found that some interesting and unexpected detail Jim had added to a panel, or the way he laid out a scene, or an expression he gave to a character's face would lead me to think of some line or two or three of dialogue I very likely would NOT have thought of otherwise.

But story-wise and dialogue-wise, TMNT Volume 4 was always intended to be my baby. I viewed it as a long-term experiment in telling the kind of extended Turtle story that I wanted to tell, with no input from anyone else (save for the artwork). And I was able to hone and tweak it to my heart's content, especially in the dialogue, captions and such, the placement of balloons, the fonts used, and so forth, but also in the tones used on the art. And I also from time to time would shift panels around, occasionally deleting one or two, sometimes flipping them horizontally or cropping them if, as I was writing the dialogue, the layout of the word balloons as it affected the flow of what was being said didn't work as needed. It was a very personal project, and I wanted it to be exactly the way I wanted and needed it to be.

Some may call this "selfish" -- in fact, I have actually seen it referred to as just that in some forums -- but I believe that kind of comment betrays a woeful lack of comprehension of the creative process… or, at the very least, of MY creative process.

Now, this is not to say that Jim and Eric couldn't take my plots and together do the four or five or six or more issues which would wrap up Volume 4. They are both very smart, creative guys, and I have no doubt that they could tell a good story in art and words. But it wouldn't be they way I would have done it, and Volume 4 has been such a personal project that -- to me -- it just does not seem worth it. I'd rather see it unfinished.

It's possible (though how likely, I can't say) that someone at Viacom, the new owners of the TMNT property, might take a look at Volume 4 at some point and say "This is a pretty neat; let's put some people on it to keep it going or to finish it up." That would be entirely their right to do so, and it might prove very interesting. But speaking solely for myself, it just wouldn't be the way I intended it to go. And while that may mean something only to me, that's just how it is. -- PL

[DrSpengler]

Okay. Fine. Volume 4 is "his" and nobody else can ever "have it".

Sure. Whatever.

But if that's the case, then I would really, really like Volume 4 to be excised from continuity like the cancer it is.

It's not fair to have a huge chunk of story inserted into the ongoing narrative only for the creator to decide he will never finish it and he will never let anyone else finish it for him and that the people who paid money for 30 issues can just go screw themselves, because it's "his".

If he wants Volume 4 to be his and his exclusively, then he's welcome to it. But if that's the case, then I'd much rather it be some loen splinter continuity that can be ignored by the ongoing storyline of the Mirage universe.

Who knows if that universe will ever be continued, but if it IS, then I'd rather whoever continues it just pick up from the Mirage "Volume 3" stories (the ones from Tales volume 2 that take place before Volume 4) and then go in a direction that'll offer actual results.

And that's even before I weigh in the stuff in Volume 4 I didn't like, such as "April is a magic doodle" and so on.

[turkishproverb]

Laird is essentially implying his "writing" since planet racers (possibly longer) has been in the same vein as the "marvel style" which gave so much latitude to artists as to earn them, in many peoples opinion, co writing status.

And yet Lawson isn't worthy.


...


****

Okay. Fine. Volume 4 is "his" and nobody else can ever "have it".

Sure. Whatever.

But if that's the case, then I would really, really like Volume 4 to be excised from continuity like the cancer it is.

It's not fair to have a huge chunk of story inserted into the ongoing narrative only for the creator to decide he will never finish it and he will never let anyone else finish it for him and that the people who paid money for 30 issues can just go screw themselves, because it's "his".

If he wants Volume 4 to be his and his exclusively, then he's welcome to it. But if that's the case, then I'd much rather it be some loen splinter continuity that can be ignored by the ongoing storyline of the Mirage universe.

Who knows if that universe will ever be continued, but if it IS, then I'd rather whoever continues it just pick up from the Mirage "Volume 3" stories (the ones from Tales volume 2 that take place before Volume 4) and then go in a direction that'll offer actual results.

And that's even before I weigh in the stuff in Volume 4 I didn't like, such as "April is a magic doodle" and so on.


*kisses Spengler*

Ermmm....

that is....

Agreed with everything he said.

*hides*

[Cipher]

I'm totally down with it being his personal project and artistic vision, BUT -

The one issue I take with it, and I'm sure Laird and even some fans may disagree, is that this is not great literary art we're dealing with, where the creator's vision and the piece's integrity need to be maintained. This is pure serialized genre, and is an important piece of an existing continuity. If he wanted to nurture an artistic baby, he should have done so outside of the vast anthropology of existing Turtles canon. As it stands, this is one long series with dozens of contributors, and now a large and extremely important section (which determines the direction of all later events) of that story is tied up and not properly finished.

He brought April's origin, aliens on Earth, an entire new world for the Turtles to interact with, and new problems into the Mirage universe. And regardless of how you feel about them, leaving those enormous character arcs unresolved now cheapens the entire Mirage run as a whole story.

I don't read stories without endings; they're the most important damn element in all of fiction. I would not have paid for the issues I bought if I didn't think I was going to get a complete story out of it. I've always appreciated the fact that the Mirage team were clearly writing stories they enjoyed, but at the same time, someone has to realize that they're producing a serialized piece of fiction which fans want to be able to cohesively read. I would never demand that they cater to fans' whims with their actual ideas, but I don't think it's out of line to want or expect and ending to the volume. I don't care who writes it.

So, yeah. Biting the bullet and passing on scripting and writing duties would have been by far the best choice. If this was a stand-alone volume or Turtles were high art, my opinion would be different. But as it stands, this was simply not the proper venue for a personal vanity story, not at this point in the series' run. But again, c'est la vie. I'd rather get the summaries than get nothing at all.

[CyberCubed]

Even though I expected this before he posted that blog, it really does suck.

I've been reading Volume 4 since 2001! I was still in High School when Volume 4 started...for goodness sakes!

And yeah, leaving a huge story like Vol. 4 unfinished just feels like a slap in the face. I just can't see why he feels so much parental control over it when he's not going to bother continuing it anyway.

My only hope is a few years from now Pete might get nostalgic to do Turtle work again and might conclude it. That's our only hope (well, for those who want it finished), does anyone see something like that happening?

[Cipher]

And yeah, leaving a huge story like Vol. 4 unfinished just feels like a slap in the face. I just can't see why he feels so much parental control over it when he's not going to bother continuing it anyway.Just to clarify, I can definitely see why he might, if it were out of continuity and a different sort of story. There are some written works that should never be finished by someone else because it would disturb the artistic merit and the creator's intent. I get that.

It's just that Volume 4 was:

1) Serialized, so we all purchased with expectation of a resolution.
2) Designed to fit into a network of continuity, and is one of the most important eras in said continuity. It going unfinished mars a lot more than just Volume 4 itself.
3) Is a fun little sci-fi story written as it went a long, nothing exceptionally literary.

He's essentially said that it was his fun little pet project. I just hope he realizes that while he was having fun with it, we were all following it seriously, waiting for the pay-off.

[Roseangelo]

But if that's the case, then I would really, really like Volume 4 to be excised from continuity like the cancer it is.

So excise it from continuity. I did years ago. No other publisher would ever even consider touching the material there, so you've really nothing to worry about.

[CyberCubed]

So excise it from continuity. I did years ago. No other publisher would ever even consider touching the material there, so you've really nothing to worry about.

What about the issues of Tales that are either set in the Volume 4 era or reference the stories from that series? You ignore those Tales issues too?

I can't do something like that, Vol. 4 impacted Tales and a large chunk of it is interconnected.

[Roseangelo]

What about the issues of Tales that are either set in the Volume 4 era or reference the stories from that series? You ignore those Tales issues too?

I can't do something like that, Vol. 4 impacted Tales and a large chunk of it is interconnected.

I can appreciate a good story on its own if I happen to like it. Doesn't mean I have to accept Vol. 4 as continuity to do so. IMO several of you are way too tied up in the official continuity/canon OMG WHERE DOES THIS STORY FALL ON THE TIMELINE?!! crap. Enjoy it for what it is, or don't. I got no value out of Vol. 4, so I am happy to ignore it and shed no tears that it will be left unresolved. Good riddance, if you ask me.

[Cipher]

I can appreciate a good story on its own if I happen to like it. Doesn't mean I have to accept Vol. 4 as continuity to do so. IMO several of you are way too tied up in the official continuity/canon OMG WHERE DOES THIS STORY FALL ON THE TIMELINE?!! crap. Enjoy it for what it is, or don't. I got no value out of Vol. 4, so I am happy to ignore it and shed no tears that it will be left unresolved. Good riddance, if you ask me.Except part of my love for the series comes from the fact that it spans these characters' lives. More over, I love some of the concepts presented in Volume 4, like the Turtles going public, and I particularly love the several issue of Tales that play off those concepts.

A good story's a good story, but a lot of Turtles stories are only good in the context of the series. It is a series, after all.

[ToTheNines]

Peter says he cares so little about TMNT anymore and yet he acts like a dog with a bone when it comes to volume 4.

This is so anti-Mirage. When Mirage first started out, they were all about giving young new writers and other veterans that they were friends with a shot at drawing/writing TMNT... now Peter's just a selfish baby.

[Andrew NDB]

Peter says he cares so little about TMNT anymore and yet he acts like a dog with a bone when it comes to volume 4.

This is so anti-Mirage. When Mirage first started out, they were all about giving young new writers and other veterans that they were friends with a shot at drawing/writing TMNT... now Peter's just a selfish baby.

Though there is the whole thing about neither Vol. 4 or Tales turning any kind of profit for at least the past 2 or 3 years... so basically the expectation would be that he would continue the original Mirage spirit out of charity and out of pocket -- at a loss -- to up and coming writers and artists? It's hard to get too mad at him for not being too hip to that.

I do find it odd, however, that he wouldn't be open to folks that are willing to pony up the cost of production on new issues independently. All that would be asked of him in this case would be a simple matter of approvals for a thumbs-up or down, so it's a little odd that such things are so out-of-the-question. It is, of course, his call.

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/peter2.jpg

A man burned out on Turtles? Come to think of it, maybe it is.

[TMNachoT]

Peter need to forget about the turtles for a couple of weeks or months, then, he will think in a different way about all this. Being more relaxed will give him a different vision of what to do with vol. 4.

Do you think that viacom may be interested in give a conclusion to vol. 4? Because if they are, peter needs to be the one to do so, because if he says jim or any other guy wont do a conclusion the way he wants, not sure what
conclusion can give a company who doesn´t know the turtles as jim, dan or the other guys.

[Powder]

"Falling Away": an update
Today, June 14, 2010, 1 hour ago | [email protected] (PL)
In my post from this June 8th, I wrote the following:

"I will take the plots that I have written out for what would have been the concluding six or seven issues of the comic book, beef them up a little bit..."

Well, I should have taken a look at my "TMNT plots" file (which I keep on another laptop that I don't use that much), something I haven't done in quite a few months. If I had, I would have been reminded of the salient fact that the plots for the remaining issues of Volume 4 (beyond the two that are already drawn but not yet published) are incomplete at best; some are really only one or two lines. So to "beef up" these things is going to take quite a bit of work.

Sigh.

At least I have a firm idea of how I want the series to end. That much is solid. -- PL

[CyberCubed]

What a shame that those two issues that seem like they're 90% done won't even be released.

What a shame.

[PAAATE]

I can't believe how many people here actually are selfish enough, that they want Laird to finish the six issues and publish them as actual comic books. And you called him selfish.... Compassion, anyone? Have you even read his blog? Maybe you think he should just dump his wife, then waste his money publishing a story he no longer is interested in?

You are the internet-equivalent of people asking him for money, the ones that partially made him isolate from his wife in the first place.

[Cipher]

I can't believe how many people here actually are selfish enough, that they want Laird to finish the six issues and publish them as actual comic books. And you called him selfish.... Compassion, anyone? Have you even read his blog? Maybe you think he should just dump his wife, then waste his money publishing a story he no longer is interested in?

You are the internet-equivalent of people asking him for money, the ones that partially made him isolate from his wife in the first place.I don't think anyone's been saying that. He doesn't actually owe us anything, especially if it would lose him money and he's not into it.

But if, ceteris paribus, it comes down to nothing but a personal choice between handing the project to another creative team and not doing it all, it would be kind of nice and not at all unreasonable for him to pass it along.

[ToTheNines]

Though there is the whole thing about neither Vol. 4 or Tales turning any kind of profit for at least the past 2 or 3 years... so basically the expectation would be that he would continue the original Mirage spirit out of charity and out of pocket -- at a loss -- to up and coming writers and artists? It's hard to get too mad at him for not being too hip to that.

That's not quite what I was trying to say. What I meant was Mirage used to be all about letting other artists do stuff with the TMNT, and now Peter won't even hand off the last 6-7 issues to his most trusted collaborators that he's been working with for about two decades now.

3) Is a fun little sci-fi story written as it went a long, nothing exceptionally literary.

Funny thing is, Peter just might think it is something awesome. I mean, tell me you didn't laugh a little bit when he suggested that Viacom might want to finish or continue the volume.

[TMNachoT]

You are the internet-equivalent of people asking him for money, the ones that partially made him isolate from his wife in the first place.

If peter can´t keep the balance between his job and his family... is it really our fault??? Plz, give me a break!!

[staypuftweepel]

I can't believe how many people here actually are selfish enough, that they want Laird to finish the six issues and publish them as actual comic books. And you called him selfish.... Compassion, anyone? Have you even read his blog? Maybe you think he should just dump his wife, then waste his money publishing a story he no longer is interested in?

You are the internet-equivalent of people asking him for money, the ones that partially made him isolate from his wife in the first place.

That's ridiculous. The only person that made Peter Laird decide to thrust himself into the turtles in full force and neglect the rest of his life was Peter Laird. Personally I don't really care if he has been approving Turtles products since the 80's. I never said he had too. It's not as I have been 100% happy with the direction of things the past 10 years either. For the most part I believe that he did all of that for himself. Haven't you read the letters pages of Vol 4? It's not as if he has been bending over backwards at every whim for critical fans or readers.

You can't blame fans for wanting a solution to something that they've invested time and money into. I don't think I read anywhere on here that someone thought that he owed us the ending. I just think he should take some time and reconsider in the future before putting everything up on the net. If he took a break he may reconsider publishing them. I think if he just put them up it would give him an excuse to never publish them. As I said it'd be great to read them online. I'm happy that he'll take the time to do that. I just wish he would publish them.

[plastroncafe]

You can't blame fans for wanting a solution to something that they've invested time and money into. I don't think I read anywhere on here that someone thought that he owed us the ending.

But...right here you say that he owes the fans an ending, based on their "investment of time and money."

[staypuftweepel]

But...right here you say that he owes the fans an ending, based on their "investment of time and money."

I'm not saying that he owes the fans anything. I'm not saying that he has to print anything, or else I'm going to be royally pissed at him. I'm just saying that it's ok for people to be upset that something they had hoped on getting isn't coming out. You shouldn't call a few people selfish just because they'd like to read the last comics. I can understand how you might think that's what I said, but I really meant to word that differently. It's hard to get ideas across sometimes on the internet.

[CyberCubed]

I wonder, would Jim Lawson be up for doing a fan-made Volume 4 ending?

If he was paid for it with a pretty big commission check, do you think Lawson would do the art and story ideas for the last 6 or so Vol. 4 issues?

[ToTheNines]

I wonder, would Jim Lawson be up for doing a fan-made Volume 4 ending?

If he was paid for it with a pretty big commission check, do you think Lawson would do the art and story ideas for the last 6 or so Vol. 4 issues?

Maybe. That'd be pretty cool if we had a set up to where we all pledged X amount of dollars until his price was met.

[Archon_Turtle]

Maybe. That'd be pretty cool if we had a set up to where we all pledged X amount of dollars until his price was met.

That looks good on paper, but based upon the lack of success of previous endevours regarding raising money via the fanbase, I really don't see that going anywhere. Lots of people talk a great game but clam up amazingly quickly when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is, so to speak.

[ToTheNines]

That sucks... I don't have alot to give, but I know I'd contribute.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder, would Jim Lawson be up for doing a fan-made Volume 4 ending?

Highly unlikely.

[DrSpengler]

Unless the donations were the equivalent of the price of one issue of the comic ($3.99), I wouldn't be inclined to donate toward such a project.

Not that Lawson would do it, anyway. Laird's his friend, and if he doesn't want anyone to finish the series, then I don't think Lawson would go behind his back and do it without his permission no matter how much money the fandom might throw at him.

[Samhain]

Unless the donations were the equivalent of the price of one issue of the comic ($3.99), I wouldn't be inclined to donate toward such a project.

Not that Lawson would do it, anyway. Laird's his friend, and if he doesn't want anyone to finish the series, then I don't think Lawson would go behind his back and do it without his permission no matter how much money the fandom might throw at him.

I agree. It wouldnt be right for him to do that if Pete doesnt want it.

[CyberCubed]

So what am I to do with the 30 issues of Volume 4 I own?

Re-read them up to the last issue...and then say...that's it, there's no ending to this story or any of these plots?

It really feels like a slap in the face to me. Its as if this were a TV series that was canceled in the middle of a major cliffhanger or something.

[ToTheNines]

It really feels like a slap in the face to me. Its as if this were a TV series that was canceled in the middle of a major cliffhanger or something.

Spectacular Spider-man?

*Throws up all over key board and cries*

[Samhain]

So what am I to do with the 30 issues of Volume 4 I own?

Re-read them up to the last issue...and then say...that's it, there's no ending to this story or any of these plots?

It really feels like a slap in the face to me. Its as if this were a TV series that was canceled in the middle of a major cliffhanger or something.

Yeah it sucks but unfortunatly it isnt up to us. Just another thing to add to the screw-ups of the Tmnt franchise.

[Jephael]

While I am disapointed in seeing Volume 4 unfinished, I'm glad that Peter Laird has decided to take a break from the comics. The poor guy has been running himself ragged the last ten years trying to keep the fans happy with the toylines and the television series. Maybe if we let him have the chance of a more normal life for a couple years he'll come back feeling more relaxed and be ready to finish what he started.

[Brodie]

Spectacular Spider-man?

*Throws up all over key board and cries*

Wolverine & the X-Men?

Throw up on my keyboard too, dawg.

[ToTheNines]

Wolverine & the X-Men?

Throw up on my keyboard too, dawg.

Mhmmmmm. I'm more of a Turtles fan than anything Marvel, but those were two awesome shows that got axed for no reason. It's sad to see the TMNT go unfinished, but it is literally down right sickening to see shows like that ended prematurely.

And at least this is the will of the co-creator and writer, not corporate executive fools.

[CyberCubed]

But if the creator/writer himself can't be bothered to finish the story, why should we care?

It almost feel now as if Vol. 4 is pointless. The problem is impacted continuity too much, such as several Tales (almost half of them or so), were either set in the Vol. 4 era or continued from some sort of plotline started in Vol. 4.

If Tales didn't have so many connections to Vol. 4, then we could ignore it, but now its impossible.

And that being said, I would prefer the Mirage universe dies altogether if Vol. 4 isn't finished. Might as well not even bother with anything else.

[ToTheNines]

It almost feel now as if Vol. 4 is pointless.

I agree, I'm gonna give it one more read through then sell the sh*t. What's the full run going for on ebay nowadays?

[TristanHuwJones]

And that being said, I would prefer the Mirage universe dies altogether if Vol. 4 isn't finished. Might as well not even bother with anything else.

So... I should just drop what I'm working on then...?

[ToTheNines]

Don't listen to him lol

[PAAATE]

So... I should just drop what I'm working on then...?

CyberCubed has a tendency to overreact. You just keep working :D

[CyberCubed]

I'm just tired of TMNT plotlines being started but never finished.

How sick is it that it took 12 years for the Image series to reach its conclusion? Or that its taken 15+ years for Archie's "Forever War" to ever see the light of day?

Now we have to do the same BS with Volume 4? It just disgusts me. I don't follow comics just to get no closure, this isn't Marvel/DC where they reboot the whole thing every 10 years and never end, TMNT comics NEED an ending.

[Slap-Happy]

I feel Vol. 4 is pointless.
Fixed.

I didn't care for Vol. $ from the start. Lawson seemed to get too stylized, the plots involved too much, I don't know, tech based stuff.

It's more sad for me that Tales has ended. The perfect turtle stories (for me), are the ones grounded in reality (as much as a teenage mutant ninja turtle can be).

[jaymq]

I'm just tired of TMNT plotlines being started but never finished.

How sick is it that it took 12 years for the Image series to reach its conclusion? Or that its taken 15+ years for Archie's "Forever War" to ever see the light of day?

Now we have to do the same BS with Volume 4? It just disgusts me. I don't follow comics just to get no closure, this isn't Marvel/DC where they reboot the whole thing every 10 years and never end, TMNT comics NEED an ending.


I understand that Laird wants time away, but this pretty much sums my feelings up as well.

[DrSpengler]

I have a hard time respecting a comic where the characters break out of what they're doing to go on a page-long rant about how tremendously awesome Apple products are and how everyone should own one because they're totally the bestest thing ever.

And I respect the people who would write something like that in a comic even less.


Seriously, you can argue about the quality of stories like "April is a magic doodle" all day and night, but the gratuitous Apple-shilling in that book was just bad.

Remember when Laird and Eastman considered themselves indy comic "rebels" and regularly lambasted "corporate comics" in the editorial sections of Volume 1?

Hard to believe Laird went from that to "drop everything you're doing and buy Apple products RIGHT NOW!"

The man had no artistic integrity of any kind left by the time Volume 4 came around. So Laird owning the Turtles? Viacom owning the Turtles? Makes no different. Laird has as much integrity as an artist as that soulless corporation.

[Roseangelo]

Gee, I remember the days where I got all sorts of crap for calling out Volume 4 for what it was. Now it's almost trendy.

[discordiatookie]

but the gratuitous Apple-shilling in that book was just bad.



When I read this on Laird's blog:

with TMNT I would do all of the dialogue, with no input from Jim. This is not to say that Jim's artwork did not affect my dialogue -- to the contrary, I often found that some interesting and unexpected detail Jim had added to a panel, or the way he laid out a scene, or an expression he gave to a character's face would lead me to think of some line or two or three of dialogue I very likely would NOT have thought of otherwise.

My first thought was "Heh - betcha that wee ad for Apple was cos Lawson had drawn an Apple logo on that laptop..." :lol:

In all seriousness though, I really loved vol 4, sure there were a coupla gripes, but for the most part I had a blast. And i'm glad that we'll be getting some sort of ending online - although I would prefer the final comic, at least this is something that I can live with. Laird did say, way back in issue 2 of vol 4, that he would only do the series as long as he's having fun with it. So for him to end it prematurely just aint that surprising for me - as it was half expected anyway.

[Andrew NDB]

Gee, I remember the days where I got all sorts of crap for calling out Volume 4 for what it was. Now it's almost trendy.

Now you know how I felt when I was calling out TMNT Part 4 for what it was.

[plastroncafe]

Now you know how I felt when I was calling out TMNT Part 4 for what it was.

There was a TMNT part 4?

OH! The cartoon they released into theaters.
Right right, carry on then.

[DrSpengler]

I don't recall there being THAT much mandatory praise for Volume 4 back when it was still being published. The only person I remember getting tremendously indignant at any criticism of the book was Peter Laird...

[Leogeddon]

I knew this day would eventually come... this SUCKS! :(
Will he eventually sell the franchise or let them die with his passion?

[CyberCubed]

I don't recall there being THAT much mandatory praise for Volume 4 back when it was still being published. The only person I remember getting tremendously indignant at any criticism of the book was Peter Laird...

There was a lot of hype when Vol. 4 started, and it lasted up till somewhere around time time after Splinter died.

That's when the book started juggling 5 different plots at once, and given it was bi-monthly, that's when people started losing interest. Waiting 2 months for each plot to only get 3-4 pages devoted to it, obviously not much story could be progressed.

Vol. 4 started in 2001, its now 2010. Obviously over the course of 9 years you're going to change your opinion on something.

Once again, I was still in High School when Vol. 4 started! Just imagine yourself now, 9 years younger, and that's when Vol. 4 started.

[discordiatookie]

I knew this day would eventually come... this SUCKS! :(
Will he eventually sell the franchise or let them die with his passion?

Dude, you got alot to catch up on!

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=28747

[Leogeddon]

Dude, you got alot to catch up on!

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=28747

Jesus Christ, I sure do... Thanks for the linkage! :tgrin:

[DrSpengler]

There was a lot of hype when Vol. 4 started, and it lasted up till somewhere around time time after Splinter died.

That's when the book started juggling 5 different plots at once, and given it was bi-monthly, that's when people started losing interest. Waiting 2 months for each plot to only get 3-4 pages devoted to it, obviously not much story could be progressed.

Vol. 4 started in 2001, its now 2010. Obviously over the course of 9 years you're going to change your opinion on something.

Once again, I was still in High School when Vol. 4 started! Just imagine yourself now, 9 years younger, and that's when Vol. 4 started.

I wasn't so much commenting on the length of time that's passed, but more that I don't recall, even back when I first joined in '03, that there was some sort of majority squashing of negative opinions of Volume 4 on this forum.

Perhaps that attitude existed between '01 and '02, before I joined, but I never noticed any tremendous hostility toward critics of Volume 4 even when it was a fresh and regularly published comic.

So I think that the idea of dissenters being "persecuted" regarding criticism of Volume 4 on these forums is a bit overblown. In Laird's letters column? Sure. Here? Not so much.

[Samhain]

Seriously, I was in 6th or 7th grade when it started. I picked it up a few months after my freind told me about it. I graduated high school in 2006. So a big part of my life has been about reading this damn book. Im upset it doesnt get an ending. I cant help but think its a selfish thing for Laird to do.

If he needs a break, he should just say it is on a indefinate hold. But he pretty much said that's it. Not happening. But in the end, its not our decision.

[turkishproverb]

Gee, I remember the days where I got all sorts of crap for calling out Volume 4 for what it was. Now it's almost trendy.

*waves hand* I wasn't exactly nice to it all that time. Granted, I focused my comments more on certain executives that had little to do with the book...

[CyberCubed]

Since #31 and #32 are already drawn, those will probably be the last two comics we get, even if we have to read them online and there won't be a physical copy.

I wonder how far or little the story is progressed by those two issues. Considering after that all we have is summaries/loose story plots to give us closure, I hope these last two issues are fairly decent.

I plan on printing the pages anyway.

[ToTheNines]

I wonder how far or little the story is progressed by those two issues. Considering after that all we have is summaries/loose story plots to give us closure, I hope these last two issues are fairly decent.

Don't kid yourself, you know exactly how uneventful these next two books are going to be.

[Shellsweet]

I was kinda bummed out when I herd that He wasn't going to finish them, I was like, probabtly in 5th-6th grade when Vol 4 came out, it didn't surprise me that he wasnt going to finish them.

But if he posts them online, I'd be happy to read it. Just to see what his concept was to conclude the series, still a shame though.

I loved the covers though. The Covers were great!

[DK2]

Its still a shame that Peter Laird won`t let these be printed. Even if he did he coulda made a jumbo sized issue of no. 31 with both no. 31 and 32`s contents. The odd Vol. 4 issue was extra sized at times. This would`ve been easier to do in one printed release. But alas it ain`t gonna happen.

[Shellsweet]

Its still a shame that Peter Laird won`t let these be printed. Even if he did he coulda made a jumbo sized issue of no. 31 with both no. 31 and 32`s contents. The odd Vol. 4 issue was extra sized at times. This would`ve been easier to do in one printed release. But alas it ain`t gonna happen.

Yea! Like a collectors book, Or heck, it would be pretty cool if he had a Vol 4 book with all the issues with the 30 and 31. But That's only wishful thinking. :P

[sorrenmj]

I purchased two copies of issue 29, one signed by Peter one not signed, and I purchased issue 30 back in 2008 and 2009. I waited for the following issues but years went by and nothing so I gave up. Then last year the turtles came back big time. Issue 29 seems have become a very valuable comic, followed by issue 30, who knew! I learned that issue 32 and 31 were printed a few years ago! I just managed to acquire these last two issues to complete my run. Issue 32 should be here in a few days - I can't wait! I have to say though, I am having a blast reading through peoples comments! Hindsight is wonderful. Volume 4 is my favourite and I do wish there could be just a few more issues to finally complete the series! Please Peter won't you do it?! If only you could see what it means to some people