Why do people hate Ch'rell?

[SuperIronRobo]

I don't get it? I mean this is TMNT we are talking about. I mean seriously. why was this bad? The funny thing is, he may not be memorable to the OT fanbase but at least he was an actual threat. Really what was so bad about Utroms and Utrom Shredder? Its almost like if something isn't a direct rehash of the OT then it is automatically not good. This is just me nerdraging and being an asshole but why does it seem like the OT Fanbase seem like the worst of the TMNT Fanbase?

[Jester]

I think it's the drastic change to the character. People are used to Shredder being a human (for the most part...:P). To have him be a alien blob seems kind of anticlimactic. That and it allows for way too many "Shredder is Krang" parallels.

[CyberCubed]

I don't think he's hated at all, he's actually viewed as one of the best incarnations of Shredder.

Its just people didn't like the idea of Shredder not being human.

[Koi]

This is just me nerdraging and being an asshole but why does it seem like the OT Fanbase seem like the worst of the TMNT Fanbase?

You kind of contradicted yourself there. Also, all fan bases are equal in there own right. Everyone has there downs and ups.

Didn't realize people disliked him so much.

v.v I have to say, I had to look up who Ch'rell was because I frankly forgot who/what it was. All utroms/kraang look the same to me.

[Jester]

You kind of contradicted yourself there. Also, all fan bases are equal in there own right. Everyone has there downs and ups.
Indeed. Every fan who says "I only like ____ aspect of the TMNT franchise." can be a bit...."nerdragy."

[midknigt]

I don't get it? I mean this is TMNT we are talking about. I mean seriously. why was this bad? The funny thing is, he may not be memorable to the OT fanbase but at least he was an actual threat. Really what was so bad about Utroms and Utrom Shredder? Its almost like if something isn't a direct rehash of the OT then it is automatically not good. This is just me nerdraging and being an asshole but why does it seem like the OT Fanbase seem like the worst of the TMNT Fanbase?


Am I the only one from the OT fanbase that appreciates the 2k3T?! :trazz:

I have to admit it was a mighty adjustment to see Shredder being an empty shell controlled by an utrom. I eventually got warmed up to the idea, especially when you see Ch'rell take on OT Shredder in Turtles Forever and Raphael at one point in 2k3 WITHOUT the suit (forgot which episode). That alone made him a badass villain in my book! :tlol:

Ch'rell needs more love!

[Jester]

Am I the only one from the OT fanbase that appreciates the 2k3T?! :trazz:!
Nah. I try to give each aspect of the TMNT their due...even the "less than perfect" aspects. I'm not a huge fan of Ch'rell, but it's mainly things after his reveal like BttS and Turtles Forever that made me think they are trying to compensate for his being an Utrom...they tried to hard at times, IMO.

[midknigt]

Nah. I try to give each aspect of the TMNT their due...even the "less than perfect" aspects. I'm not a huge fan of Ch'rell, but it's mainly things after his reveal like BttS and Turtles Forever that made me think they are trying to compensate for his being an Utrom...they tried to hard at times, IMO.

True, most of the time it's really obvious. I hope the new TMNT NickToon won't try too hard as well. :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

Am I the only one from the OT fanbase that appreciates the 2k3T?! :trazz:

Why do people keep trying to separate the TMNT fanbase by old toon fans, etc? The vast majority of TMNT fans appreciate both, as opposed to the ones who only like one cartoon, or neither.

[oldmanwinters]

I thought the twist reveal of making Shredder an Utrom in disguise was genius! However, once that happened, I could never really view Shredder as a serious threat again. He went from being seemingly invincible to being chopped liver once the turtles found out his weak spot. It was like a video game boss. Once you know how to exploit his weakness, he'll never be a challenge to you again.

[Jester]

I thought the twist reveal of making Shredder an Utrom in disguise was genius! However, once that happened, I could never really view Shredder as a serious threat again. He went from being seemingly invincible to being chopped liver once the turtles found out his weak spot. It was like a video game boss. Once you know how to exploit his weakness, he'll never be a challenge to you again.
Leading them to push the "greatest threat EVAR!" stuff with him, IE Turtles Forever.

[oldmanwinters]

Leading them to push the "greatest threat EVAR!" stuff with him, IE Turtles Forever.

Ah, come on, tell me Ch'rell wasn't pathetic in Exodus Part 1. The poor lil alien's exosuit got bwoken and his babysitter Karai had to scurry him off to safety.:lol:

[Jester]

Ah, come on, tell me Ch'rell wasn't pathetic in Exodus Part 1. The poor lil alien's exosuit got bwoken and his babysitter Karai had to scurry him off to safety.:lol:
True...then he nearly kills them all because he is "teh awesome! And not a tiny squishy brain-alien."

[Powder]

This is just me nerdraging and being an asshole but why does it seem like the OT Fanbase seem like the worst of the TMNT Fanbase?

As for this statement, the reason it seems that way is this: They are the majority of TMNT "fans".

These are the ones we call "casual fans". They might buy a retro T-shirt from Hottopic, maybe a DVD or two, but outside of that they've not given that much of a damn about the turtles since they were little kids. & seeing how that version was the only one they were exposed to before they grew out of it, they think everything that came after it is just a wack spinoff or not as good as "the original". Of course, they're idiots because the real "original" version of the turtles is the comic books. The comic books they don't even know exist, usually. But you won't see these kinds of fans on this board. You will see some that dislike all incarnations other than the comic or (in rare cases) the OT, but they're at least very passionate about the aspect of the franchise they enjoy & typically still have a bit of respect for the other versions.

Just go to the Ninja Turtles facebook page, that's where you'll see this kind of stuff-

-"Ralph was teh coolest one!!1"
-"I always liked Rahaeil the best"
-"the new show is gay originals are way better"
-"i don't like the comics, why are there 4 raphs?"
-"if this new movie doesn't have krang I'm not watching"

Etc...

[Ninjinister]

v.v I have to say, I had to look up who Ch'rell was because I frankly forgot who/what it was. All utroms/kraang look the same to me.

That's racist.

[midknigt]

Why do people keep trying to separate the TMNT fanbase by old toon fans, etc? The vast majority of TMNT fans appreciate both, as opposed to the ones who only like one cartoon, or neither.

I wasn't, you only quoted my sarcasm. :twink:

[ChetTurtle]

Just go to the Ninja Turtles facebook page,

All 20 of them??:D

That's racist.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Krys]

Honestly before I joined these kinds of forums, I didn't even realize their were separate fanbases within the tmnt fandom. I mean I've watched both the OT and 2k3 and yea I noticed the differences between both series, but it never really mattered to me, cause it was still TMNT.

[MrPliggins]

Sadly when Ch'rell was revealed as an utrom I was spoiled on here before the episode aired (I think it was revealed in a video game or something beforehand?), although I have to say the "Secret Origins" arc was extremely predictable anyway (though still pretty good).
I think there was a lot of backlash at the time and many people hated the idea. But over time it seemed most people warmed up to it. For me, I thought it was so bizarre that I liked it. I know some "casual" fans who watched Turtles Forever, and they were completely confused by Ch'rell's appearance.

[ABrown]

The concept of Shredder being an utrom just never completely made sense to me. In the first season, Shredder was a Japanese crime lord who became obsessed with the turtles because they interfered with his business. Then all of a sudden, out of no where, we find out that he's actually this world conquering alien. The two are so radically different that I just never completely believed it. I was ok with it because the utrom persona was rarely featured in the show. The majority of the time that the character was shown was as Oroku Saki, and I really liked that. I thought that it was really cool to not see him as Shredder every time he was shown.

[Tuxedo Moroboshi]

-"Ralph was teh coolest one!!1"
-"I always liked Rahaeil the best"
-"the new show is gay originals are way better"
-"i don't like the comics, why are there 4 raphs?"
-"if this new movie doesn't have krang I'm not watching"

Oh, gosh... I run into those guys all the time on YouTube. :|

[Jester]

Um...not quite. Shredder was a crime lord, but he was using his power to track down his sword (of Tengu) and and find and destroy his enemies (the Utroms). The Turtles got in the way of him destroying the Utroms.


-"Ralph was teh coolest one!!1"
-"I always liked Rahaeil the best"
-"the new show is gay originals are way better"
-"i don't like the comics, why are there 4 raphs?"
-"if this new movie doesn't have krang I'm not watching"
Oh, gosh... I run into those guys all the time on YouTube.
I had someone assume I was one of those people. I posted that I had a Raph in Don's box NECA mistake (you can tell by the head sculpt) and he told me, "they are the comic book versions of the turtles (they all had red bandannas in the comic)"

[Tuxedo Moroboshi]

I had someone assume I was one of those people. I posted that I had a Raph in Don's box NECA mistake (you can tell by the head sculpt) and he told me, "they are the comic book versions of the turtles (they all had red bandannas in the comic)"

Well, considering how many people like that there are on YouTube, it's easy to just make assumptions. Though, now that you mention that, I think I actually remember someone else having something like that, only I think it was Raphael in a Michelangelo box.

...maybe Neca is run by some of these people! :teek:

[gobo]

Why do people hate Ch'rell?
Cuz he's a bad guy perhaps? Duh...

[Luzmagica]

.......The vast majority of TMNT fans appreciate both.....

IMO I think so....

.......
......You will see some that dislike all incarnations other than the comic or (in rare cases) the OT, but they're at least very passionate about the aspect of the franchise they enjoy & typically still have a bit of respect for the other versions.


100% agree!!!! :tgrin:

Honestly before I joined these kinds of forums, I didn't even realize their were separate fanbases within the tmnt fandom. I mean I've watched both the OT and 2k3 and yea I noticed the differences between both series, but it never really mattered to me, cause it was still TMNT.

Same here...:twink: !!! and I will :tlove: very passionate the new Nick show!!!!

[TobTurn]

They just can't stand that Ch'rell is the One, True Shredder and he is way more bad-ass than any Shredder ever.

Nah, just joking. Although he is the True One.

I also think people are used to Shredder being a human, so they found this disappointing.
It was Laird's idea to make him an Utrom btw, so it's not like this couldn't have happened in the Comics. It didn't, because he didn't think of it then, but if he actually díd The Shredder could've very well been an Utrom in the Comics. Could've been, I repeat, because I don't know Eastman's opinion on this subject.

I always assumed Shredder was a human when I was watching the NT, because I was still a kid when that was on tv in my country. I stopped watching for no particular reason, so when I started to discover the show again, I was a bit confused. I never, ever disliked Ch'rell. When I understood how the story was I just immediately liked it.

I never, ever disliked Ch'rell. Even though at first, I always thought he was human, when I found out he was actually an Utrom I started liking this character even more.

I would pick the Utrom Shredder (The True One) over all the other Shredders any time. Even over another alien-Shredder, if there's ever going to be one.

[Andrew NDB]

I think it's the drastic change to the character. People are used to Shredder being a human (for the most part...:P). To have him be a alien blob seems kind of anticlimactic.

What does Saki being an Utrom have to do with a climax?

I think Ch'rell is garbage because he's 1 dimensional and just evil for evil's sake, which is hollow and uninteresting. But that's just me.

[Redeemer]

I don't get it? I mean this is TMNT we are talking about. I mean seriously. why was this bad? The funny thing is, he may not be memorable to the OT fanbase but at least he was an actual threat. Really what was so bad about Utroms and Utrom Shredder? Its almost like if something isn't a direct rehash of the OT then it is automatically not good. This is just me nerdraging and being an asshole but why does it seem like the OT Fanbase seem like the worst of the TMNT Fanbase?

I think it's the drastic change to the character. People are used to Shredder being a human (for the most part...:P). To have him be a alien blob seems kind of anticlimactic. That and it allows for way too many "Shredder is Krang" parallels.

I have to agree with Jester mor the most part it mostly the dramati change.
Don't get confused everybody loved the Shredder in 2k3 he is plain BA most of the time, but he is suppose to be Oroku Saki not some Alien squid.

I love chr'll as a character jst not as the shredder. Shredder to me is suppose to be Oroku Saki. I wouldn't mind seeing chr'll as he is jst not as the shredder....

[Keldor1578]

What does Saki being an Utrom have to do with a climax?

I think the Tengu Shredder is garbage because he's 1 dimensional and just evil for evil's sake, which is hollow and uninteresting. But that's just me.

I fixed that for you

[FearlessLeader]

I think Ch'rell is garbage because he's 1 dimensional and just evil for evil's sake, which is hollow and uninteresting. But that's just me.

This is also why I didn't like Ch'rell's character.

In season one Shredder is so multi-dimensional and for a kids show he is terrifying. He had so much potential to be expanded upon and really turned into probably the most frightening version of the Shredder yet.

Then in season two they turned him into an Utrom, which I didn't dislike so much because they did it. I think with proper writing Ch'rell could have STILL been very threatening. But instead they make him almost farcical. A majority of the time we see him in his Utrom form he is making ridiculous cartoony faces or doing silly things (latching onto Raphael's head the first moment the Turtles see him?? Yes it was REALLY funny, but I wanted Ch'rell to be scary, not making me laugh.)

So it's not the idea of Ch'rell I dislike it's the lost potential of the character.

[ToTheNines]

Like him or not, he's probably the second most interesting version of Saki there is (first place would go to the Archie version for me). He's hardly in the Mirage books, he's a doofus in the OT, and he's not very fleshed out in the movies either.

What does Saki being an Utrom have to do with a climax?

I think Ch'rell is garbage because he's 1 dimensional and just evil for evil's sake, which is hollow and uninteresting. But that's just me.

Not saying you're wrong, but they didn't really give us enough backstory on his character specifically. He could have had a cool reason for hating the Utrom.

I fixed that for you

Heh, good one.

[CyberCubed]

I like old toon Shredder the most simply because he was purposely written the way he was. Sometimes he was truly evil and other times he was a goofball.

[ABrown]

Like him or not, he's probably the second most interesting version of Saki there is

Personally, he is my favorite version. But it's not because he's "Ch'rell" that makes him my favorite. I'd actually say that it's everything about him except the "Ch'rell" part that makes him my favorite.

[Spitfire]

The answer is that TMNT fans are never happy with anything therefore they must bitch about and hate everything. Even something as awesome as Turtles Forever sees unwarranted hate. Peter Laird himself could hand deliver gold plated copies of the first comic for free to every fan and someone would find something to bitch about.

[Redeemer]

Personally, he is my favorite version. But it's not because he's "Ch'rell" that makes him my favorite. I'd actually say that it's everything about him except the "Ch'rell" part that makes him my favorite.

This is exactly how I feel about it!

[Jester]

Saki from the 1st movie is my favorite.

[Redeemer]

Saki from the 1st movie is my favorite.

I would have to agree....

[Jester]

Personally, he is my favorite version. But it's not because he's "Ch'rell" that makes him my favorite. I'd actually say that it's everything about him except the "Ch'rell" part that makes him my favorite.
This is exactly how I feel about it!
Saki from the 1st movie is my favorite.
I would have to agree....
Um...who...how...wha...
(Come on guys...finish the line.)

[Slap-Happy]

Um...who...how...wha...
(Come on guys...finish the line.)
"Well, that leaves out 'why' and 'when', doesn't it?"

[Jester]

Well, I guess that leaves out 'why' and 'when', doesn't it?
YEA!!! Well done, Slappy.

[k_lala]

At first i didn't like the utrom Chre'll Shredder but he won me over at the end.

[Candy Kappa]

Ch'rell is an okay character. He isn't always a terrible one note villain, thought I wouldn't mind some more character development.

At least he wasn't hellbent on taking over the world, just wanted to get off the rock and conquered better planets

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yN1zeEk5JFk/TF0E4NtDI8I/AAAAAAAAABg/ocox_VGkPrY/s1600/BisonOfCourse.jpg

[Revan]

I think Ch'rell is garbage because he's 1 dimensional and just evil for evil's sake, which is hollow and uninteresting. But that's just me.

How do you mean? Wasn't it explained that he was after universal domination. He had to answer for those crimes committed on other worlds which was why he was banished to the ice asteroid. He was after power, which is one of the main characteristics of any villain.

[Spitfire]

How do you mean? Wasn't it explained that he was after universal domination. He had to answer for those crimes committed on other worlds which was why he was banished to the ice asteroid. He was after power, which is one of the main characteristics of any villain.

Yeah but even Hitler had more motivation for his actions then "I just want to rule the world because I'm evil."

[Jester]

Yeah, I gotta admit, the "mustache twirling" villain of Ch'rell is another reason I grew to, not dislike, but like less. Then again, are many of the 4Kids villains little more then 1 dimensional evil-for-evil's-sake villains? Bishop is the only one that had some depth...and eventually he became a hero. :(

[Spitfire]

Yeah, I gotta admit, the "mustache twirling" villain of Ch'rell is another reason I grew to, not dislike, but like less. Then again, are many of the 4Kids villains little more then 1 dimensional evil-for-evil's-sake villains? Bishop is the only one that had some depth...and eventually he became a hero. :(

Well Darius was a power hungry corporate snake who just wanted control of the family company. His motivation being that he couldn't handle it that a 15 year old was in control of a company he thought rightfully his, especially since he ran it.

Bishop wasn't so much evil as he was righteous. He thought what we was doing was for the better of mankind. Misguided if you will. He hated aliens and used his position to take out his revenge on them, and anything not human, for whatever it is they did to him.

Shokonabo was trying to keep his race alive. Just what his race was all about was considered evil because they were parasitic organisms, but they couldn't help it they were made that way.

Baxter was a vengeful character who at first wanted power and then his dignity. He was never truly evil he just did what benefited him the most. For awhile he took offense to being replaced by a young hotshot which damaged his ego even further.

I mean some lacked motivation sure but Shredder, being the main big baddie that he is, was introduced as evil from the get go with zero motivation. He was a prisoner, for committing genocide across the universe, and then enacted revenge on his fellow Utroms for imprisoning him. Why he did it was never explained. It was just to be assumed it was because he was evil incarnate.

[Jester]

I mean some lacked motivation sure but Shredder, being the main big baddie that he is, was introduced as evil from the get go with zero motivation. He was a prisoner, for committing genocide across the universe, and then enacted revenge on his fellow Utroms for imprisoning him. Why he did it was never explained. It was just to be assumed it was because he was evil incarnate.

True...and Cyber Ch'rell was even more one note. Seems the farther we got from the "original" Shredder (Demon Shredder, Cyber Shredder) they got even more one dimensional.

[ABrown]

Cyber Shredder was extremely one dimensional. He was definitely evil just for the sake of being evil. But it wasn't Ch'rell that made the utrom Shredder interesting. It was the other way around, it was Oroku Saki/The Shredder that made Ch'rell interesting.

[Keldor1578]

Cyber Shredder was extremely one dimensional. He was definitely evil just for the sake of being evil. But it wasn't Ch'rell that made the utrom Shredder interesting. It was the other way around, it was Oroku Saki/The Shredder that made Ch'rell interesting.

Is true, What made Ch'rell interesting for me is that he had a double life on earth as a wealthy business man and a ninjitsu crimelord

[Revan]

Yeah but even Hitler had more motivation for his actions then "I just want to rule the world because I'm evil."

Well put. Misguided vs. inherently evil

[gobo]

I still think my answer was correctest. :tgrumble:

[Uki]

Am I the only one from the OT fanbase that appreciates the 2k3T?! :trazz:

I have to admit it was a mighty adjustment to see Shredder being an empty shell controlled by an utrom. I eventually got warmed up to the idea, especially when you see Ch'rell take on OT Shredder in Turtles Forever and Raphael at one point in 2k3 WITHOUT the suit (forgot which episode). That alone made him a badass villain in my book! :tlol:

Ch'rell needs more love!

I love all canons for Turtles, and the Utrim version of Shredhead was amazingly cool and quite the surprise when I first saw it years ago.

[lethrhd]

do they hate him? I thought that 2k3 arc that finally explained his origin was one of the best storylines in tmnt canon.

[ninjitsu_magic_47]

I personally love Ch'rell ^^; When I first saw that he was an Utrom, I was like "OMFG The Shredder is really an evil Alien Warlord who crashed on Earth because he was on a prison ship and has been trapped on Earth for a thousand years?? 8O" I thought that that just made the Shredder so much cooler.

I also like the fact that despite not having any power, and being a little alien, he still manages to be threatening, and damn near destroys existence. I wish more backstory could have been given for him, it's not like someone wakes up one day and goes "I want to conquer the Universe," especially if you're from a race that is all about peace and non-interference. Also, why is Ch'rell red while most other Utroms are pink or yellow? Why does he have those horn things and others don't? Where did he get that scar? How is he physically tougher than ordinary Utroms? Why does he always wear the same red tie?

Backstory would have been awesome :tcry:

Or maybe I'm being biased about all of this because I play Ch'rell on a lj rp

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

The answer is that TMNT fans are never happy with anything therefore they must bitch about and hate everything. Even something as awesome as Turtles Forever sees unwarranted hate. Peter Laird himself could hand deliver gold plated copies of the first comic for free to every fan and someone would find something to bitch about.

I'm making this my new signature. :tlol:

[KROW]

I don't so much as hate Ch'rell as disagree with the character in general. He's just way too melodramatic in the villain category; dominate this and rule over that. Though I can make sense of the fact that he's the bad apple of his species, the multiversal conquering thing is a bit much.


The answer is that TMNT fans are never happy with anything therefore they must bitch about and hate everything. Even something as awesome as Turtles Forever sees unwarranted hate. Peter Laird himself could hand deliver gold plated copies of the first comic for free to every fan and someone would find something to bitch about.

"Gold-plated?" Man, how am I gonna leaf through that?! *whine bitch moan*

[Ninjinister]

"Gold-plated?" Man, how am I gonna leaf through that?! *whine bitch moan*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_leaf

The REAL question is, why does Ch'rell hate people? Why is it of all characters, he wasn't given some sort of tragic backstory?

[Zog the Equalizer]

I honestly liked Ch'rell. The only thing I didn't like was him "dying" so often. For a while every third episode felt like "Oh look, Shredder's dead...again...wonder how long it will last this time...14 seconds...awesome" Other than that, I didn't mind the whole Utrom Shredder thing

[KROW]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_leaf

I'd still not want to touch it.

[Master Splinter]

The answer is that TMNT fans are never happy with anything therefore they must bitch about and hate everything. Even something as awesome as Turtles Forever sees unwarranted hate. Peter Laird himself could hand deliver gold plated copies of the first comic for free to every fan and someone would find something to bitch about.

What platinum isn't good enough?

-ms

[gobo]

The REAL question is, why does Ch'rell hate people? Why is it of all characters, he wasn't given some sort of tragic backstory?
They weren't paying me enough.

[The Sewer Lord]

I never understood this.
It seemed to me like people hated on the character for being an Utrom. Many users on other sites stated reasons why him being an Utrom was a bad idea, but they weren't solid.
I hope people on this site have solid reasons.

But I'll be very happy if people stated a reason other than:

He's an UTROM!!!!!

Very happy.

So, bring on the reasons and start the debate!

[LivingMutagen]

I like him.

[DonatelloNinja82]

Maybe because it ventures so far from the classic human Shredder? I never had a problem with it. I love the 2k3 show and thought that Utrom Shredder worked with it. However, a Shredder being that badass and being human just adds to just how crazy and menacing he is. Maybe people who have a problem with him view the exoskeleton as taking away from that image?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

TMNT is built up on several concepts:

*Martial arts (Shredder, Foot Clan, Karai, Lotus, Crooked Ninja Turtle Gang)
*Street gang thugs (Purple Dragons and other gangs)
*Mob (Big Louie, Pinky Mc Fingers)
*Extraterrestrials (Krang, Utroms, Triceratons)
*Alternate realities (Usagi Yojimbo)
*Mystic (not much around in the 1987 cartoon, but other universes, like Warrior Dragon, Chien Khan and whatever)

Shredder represents one of the human/martial arts-oriented things about TMNT. not being so complicated. (just as April represents normality, contrast to the turtles)

[gobo]

Why do people hate on Ch'rell?
'Cuz he's a villain, smart guy.

[Drose18]

As you can see in the Nick show the two main villain teams both have to do with the origin of the turtles. The foot and shredder being the ninjitsu origins and the kraang or utroms being the mutation side. What 2k3 did with shredder was combine the two to make Ch'rell which gets hate because it replaces krang and changes the backstory.

[The Sewer Lord]

As you can see in the Nick show the two main villain teams both have to do with the origin of the turtles. The foot and shredder being the ninjitsu origins and the kraang or utroms being the mutation side. What 2k3 did with shredder was combine the two to make Ch'rell which gets hate because it replaces krang and changes the backstory.

Hmmm... Well to me, this made Ch'rell more interesting. I liked how a large portion of the events and the origin/past of the turtles were pretty much things that occured due Ch'rell actions.
Just take a look at the series. Here's an example why Ch'rell is responsible for the events of season 5:

*Ch'rell crashes the Utrom's ship.
*The Utroms try to build a transmat.
*The Mutagen is created.
*TCRI truck accident occures.
*Splinter and the turtles are mutated.
*Splinter teaches the turtles ninjutsu.
*Ch'rell attacks the turtles in "Shredder Strikes Back".
*The turtles have their revenge against Ch'rell.
*Splinter disappears.
*The turtles track him to the TCRI building.
*The turtles meet the Fugitoid.
*Dr. Honeycutt comes back to Earth with the turtles.
*Triceratons follow the Fugitoid to Earth.
*Bishop fails the president by being helpless against the Triceratons and attacking Ch'rell's mansion.
*In search for money, Bishop creates his own alien invasion.
*Stockman joins Bishop.
*The outbreak occurs.
*With Ch'rell gone (by his own fault), the Foot Mystics prepare to free themselves.
*Donatello gets infected.
*The turtles go to Bishop.
*Bishop sends Raph, Mikey and Leo after the Heart of Tengu.
*Bishop destroys the Heart of Tengu.
*The Tengu Shredder is ressurected.

This chain of events caused by Ch'rell caused the fifth season.
Yeah. This is one of the reasons I like Ch'rell.

TMNT is built up on several concepts:

*Martial arts (Shredder, Foot Clan, Karai, Lotus, Crooked Ninja Turtle Gang)
*Street gang thugs (Purple Dragons and other gangs)
*Mob (Big Louie, Pinky Mc Fingers)
*Extraterrestrials (Krang, Utroms, Triceratons)
*Alternate realities (Usagi Yojimbo)
*Mystic (not much around in the 1987 cartoon, but other universes, like Warrior Dragon, Chien Khan and whatever)

Shredder represents one of the human/martial arts-oriented things about TMNT. not being so complicated. (just as April represents normality, contrast to the turtles)

I see. That makes sense. I guess a human doing martial arts makes more sense than an alien doing martial arts. :lol:

'Cuz he's a villain, smart guy.

Well that's wonderful. :D

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Did they really do all this just to follow the Mirage comics, with Leonardo cutting the head? Actually, most episodes weren't Mirage adaptions, so there are so many other Mirage adaptions and concepts to use.

They could still have this storyline, if Shredder was a human using a huge robotic samurai armour during season 1 (maybe built by Baxter Stockman).

[The Sewer Lord]

Did they really do all this just to follow the Mirage comics, with Leonardo cutting the head? Actually, most episodes weren't Mirage adaptions, so there are so many other Mirage adaptions and concepts to use.

No, it wasn't. Shredder died by falling off the roof.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

No, it wasn't. Shredder died by falling off the roof.

Yeah, but Leonardo cut the Shredder clone's head in Mirage.

[Coola Yagami]

It was just a lame idea. And everybody was too blinded by the cartoony Uncle Phil Shredder to think the Shredder could be a normal human and still be bad-ass. Well, KA-BAM!!! 2013 TMNT prooved you wrong.

[The Sewer Lord]

It was just a lame idea. And everybody was too blinded by the cartoony Uncle Phil Shredder to think the Shredder could be a normal human and still be bad-ass. Well, KA-BAM!!! 2013 TMNT prooved you wrong.
If you say so.

[The Sewer Lord]

It was just a lame idea. And everybody was too blinded by the cartoony Uncle Phil Shredder to think the Shredder could be a normal human and still be bad-ass. Well, KA-BAM!!! 2013 TMNT prooved you wrong.
Also, the idea was executed perfectly.

[The Sewer Lord]

Yeah, but Leonardo cut the Shredder clone's head in Mirage.
Leo cut Ch'rell's fake head so that fans could "see" he's an Utrom.

[Konchadunga]

I don't hate Ch'rel for being an alien; I hate him for being one of the most ridiculously one-dimensional villains ever. He has no depth, no human sides; nothing that makes him appealing as a character; just a concentrated, repulsive concussion of stereotypical dark, scary and evil tropes. That's bad by any standard, but in something they said they intended to break TMNT out of the Saturday Morning Cartoon stupidity it had been known for and return it to its Mirage roots, it was abhorrently hypocritical. In the Mirage series, Shredder was human, had a human side to him, and was just in a few issues; they changed all that.

That's the other problem; this series started as a great tribute to the Mirage series and had plenty more complex and entertaining villains, but as it wore on, increasingly it just became Shredder Shredder Shredder. Ch'rel, and the other Shredders, who might as well be him, is to me the mascot of seasonal rot.

[CyberCubed]

I don't hate Ch'rel for being an alien; I hate him for being one of the most ridiculously one-dimensional villains ever. He has no depth, no human sides; nothing that makes him appealing as a character; just a concentrated, repulsive concussion of stereotypical dark, scary and evil tropes. That's bad by any standard, but in something they said they intended to break TMNT out of the Saturday Morning Cartoon stupidity it had been known for and return it to its Mirage roots, it was abhorrently hypocritical. In the Mirage series, Shredder was human, had a human side to him, and was just in a few issues; they changed all that.

That's the other problem; this series started as a great tribute to the Mirage series and had plenty more complex and entertaining villains, but as it wore on, increasingly it just became Shredder Shredder Shredder. Ch'rel, and the other Shredders, who might as well be him, is to me the mascot of seasonal rot.

How was Shredder one dimensional? We saw him interacting with the Mayor of NYC and adopted Karai.

[redsai4lex]

I don't hate Ch'rel for being an alien; I hate him for being one of the most ridiculously one-dimensional villains ever. He has no depth, no human sides; nothing that makes him appealing as a character; just a concentrated, repulsive concussion of stereotypical dark, scary and evil tropes. That's bad by any standard, but in something they said they intended to break TMNT out of the Saturday Morning Cartoon stupidity it had been known for and return it to its Mirage roots, it was abhorrently hypocritical. In the Mirage series, Shredder was human, had a human side to him, and was just in a few issues; they changed all that.

That's the other problem; this series started as a great tribute to the Mirage series and had plenty more complex and entertaining villains, but as it wore on, increasingly it just became Shredder Shredder Shredder. Ch'rel, and the other Shredders, who might as well be him, is to me the mascot of seasonal rot.
I second this opinion... Perfectly said! Essentially, they combined Shredder and Krang into one single character. Eventually, they should have just let the show branch off to other favorite villains like more Rat King... But, instead they just became more concerned with adding more and more Shredders... My mom even loves TMNT, and she got tired of seeing different Shredders... besides, Ch'rell was just a cheap and uncreative way to avoid calling him Krang.

[corvus]

I don't hate him. I hate how often he's mentioned by his name(which was said like twice in the series) like he's a legitimate character separate from shredder or how cool it'd be if he appeared in other adaptations. He's one if the unique things about 4kids and he worked there just fine but I would hate to see him elsewhere.

[redsai4lex]

I seriously thought the whole "Ch'rell" thing was a joke at first when I saw Exodus pt.2 for the first time, like the turtles would just end of waking up from a horribly written dream... But, it was only the beginning of the end to a character that was never well developed. Not to mention the Superman II parody... :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

I seriously thought the whole "Ch'rell" thing was a joke at first when I saw Exodus pt.2 for the first time, like the turtles would just end of waking up from a horribly written dream... But, it was only the beginning of the end to a character that was never well developed. Not to mention the Superman II parody... :tlol:

How could it be a joke when the Season 2 arc explained it perfectly?

[The Sewer Lord]

How was Shredder one dimensional? We saw him interacting with the Mayor of NYC and adopted Karai.
I believe one-dimensional means him being only "evil" with no "good".

[The Sewer Lord]

I second this opinion... Perfectly said! Essentially, they combined Shredder and Krang into one single character. Eventually, they should have just let the show branch off to other favorite villains like more Rat King... But, instead they just became more concerned with adding more and more Shredders... My mom even loves TMNT, and she got tired of seeing different Shredders... besides, Ch'rell was just a cheap and uncreative way to avoid calling him Krang.
You're angry 'cause you saw three different Shredders in seven seasons?

[The Sewer Lord]

I don't hate him. I hate how often he's mentioned by his name(which was said like twice in the series) like he's a legitimate character separate from shredder or how cool it'd be if he appeared in other adaptations. He's one if the unique things about 4kids and he worked there just fine but I would hate to see him elsewhere.
That's hating the fanbase, not the character.

[Konchadunga]

How was Shredder one dimensional? We saw him interacting with the Mayor of NYC and adopted Karai.

That bit with Karai could have been interesting, but ultimately it just dragged a potentially-good character through the mud. I might be willing to buy that Ch'rel adopting Karai was a rare moment of legitimate sympathy from him, but considering the way he treated literally everyone else, Karai's ongoing obsession with his kindness to her just made her stupider and more annoying the more she went on. They took a strong, take-charge character who in the Mirage series had been instrumental in closing the arc with the Foot Clan, and changed her into a whiny Talia al Ghoul ripoff who surpassed even Michelangelo in Aesop amnesia.

And she never recovered; in any continuity. Ch'rel screwed things up so badly the damage has now become series standard. In fact, I hate to say this, but if that's the sort of crap they were foreshadowing in the 2007 movie, then maybe it's a good thing that the series got rebooted. The new movie sounds all kinds of stupid and inaccurate, but at least it's the kinds that don't take themselves seriously. You know what; give me a movie with laughably stupid Bebop and Rocksteady and fanservice April over one with emo fascist Karai.

[The Sewer Lord]

That bit with Karai could have been interesting, but ultimately it just dragged a potentially-good character through the mud. I might be willing to buy that Ch'rel adopting Karai was a rare moment of legitimate sympathy from him, but considering the way he treated literally everyone else, Karai's ongoing obsession with his kindness to her just made her stupider and more annoying the more she went on. They took a strong, take-charge character who in the Mirage series had been instrumental in closing the arc with the Foot Clan, and changed her into a whiny Talia al Ghoul ripoff who surpassed even Michelangelo in Aesop amnesia.

And she never recovered; in any continuity. Ch'rel screwed things up so badly the damage has now become series standard. In fact, I hate to say this, but if that's the sort of crap they were foreshadowing in the 2007 movie, then maybe it's a good thing that the series got rebooted. The new movie sounds all kinds of stupid and inaccurate, but at least it's the kinds that don't take themselves seriously. You know what; give me a movie with laughably stupid Bebop and Rocksteady and fanservice April over one with emo fascist Karai.

Why is Karai is so bad? She's very interesting. You're judging her because she loved her father? Do you even know how horrible life is on the street, especially when you're a young girl. You can't judge her for that.

How is it Ch'rell's fault that the writers think this relationship is fun? It's not like Ch'rell walked up to the writers and forced them to "canonize" the relationship. Also, I don't see that kind of relationship in the 2007 series and it's mildly present in the Nick show.

Your reasons for hating Ch'rell only make sense if they're reasons for hating Karai. Your hate for Ch'rell makes no sense and is actually hate for Karai. You can't hate a character because of the actions of another character.

[redsai4lex]

How could it be a joke when the Season 2 arc explained it perfectly?

I know exactly what you're referring to, I've seen every episode at least 3 times or more... I was talking about the whole Superman II parody thing at the end of Exodus pt.2... The name itself "Ch'rell" was only made as a spoof on the name of Superman's real father... "Jo'rell"

[Konchadunga]

Why is Karai is so bad? She's very interesting.

For a few episodes. Then her character doesn't go anywhere permanently. I have a stricter definition of "interesting" than just "being able to serve as a hero or villain depending on the plot."

You're judging her because she loved her father? Do you even know how horrible life is on the street,

Less horrible than it was under Ch'rel in "Same as it Never Was," yet even there, Karai was still stupidly loyal to him.

especially when you're a young girl. You can't judge her for that.

She hadn't been a young girl for a long time. As an adult, Karai could have outfought just about anyone, lived a life of luxury as the leader of a vast criminal empire, chosen her own path, wanted for nothing, but she still insisted on suckling up to an adoptive father she should've outgrown.

How is it Ch'rell's fault that the writers think this relationship is fun?

Maybe it's not, but maybe it is; many writers still aren't familiar with the Mirage series.

It's not like Ch'rell walked up to the writers and forced them to "canonize" the relationship. Also, I don't see that kind of relationship in the 2007 series and it's mildly present in the Nick show.

It's more subtle in the 2007 film, but it is there. Karai alludes to having unfinished business with the turtles, but it being another fight for another time--and since by all evidence she already rules the Foot Clan, that business is not likely to be just getting the Turtles' help in conquering them.

Your reasons for hating Ch'rell only make sense if they're reasons for hating Karai. Your hate for Ch'rell makes no sense and is actually hate for Karai. You can't hate a character because of the actions of another character.

Who the shell are you to tell me why I hate what I hate; punk?! :tmad: Nobody knows my motives better than myself, so shut up with that allegation right now!

All of my reasons for hating Ch'rel would still be valid if Karai didn't exist, and I have a whole post without even mentioning her to prove that claim. To be fair, they're not strictly toward Ch'rel and more towards the whole concept of 4Kids Shredder as a whole, but generally, my point is that whenever the Shredder is around in some form, every other villain gets pushed to the sidelines and the whole arc becomes about yet another fight against him. Repetitive storylines, however common in this medium, are still ideally avoided, and it's enraging how the 2003 show could have done just that if they'd just gotten rid of Shredder permanently. I'd have strongly preferred more Federation, more Triceratons, more Earth Defense Force, more Atlantis, more Time Lords, more Rat King, more of a lot of stuff in the series that was cool but infrequent.

[redsai4lex]

You're angry 'cause you saw three different Shredders in seven seasons?

I never said I was angry, and there were more than 3 Shredders throughout the show...

-Original Utrom Shredder
-Karai Shredder
-Alternate Future Utrom Shredder
-Oroku Saki Shredder
-Demon Saki Shredder
-Demon Dragon Shredder
-Stockman Cyber Shredder
-Viral Cyber Shredder

I am well aware there are multiple versions of each Shredder, but I do not consider Cyber Shredder to be the same Shredder as Ch'rell's...

[The Sewer Lord]

For a few episodes. Then her character doesn't go anywhere permanently. I have a stricter definition of "interesting" than just "being able to serve as a hero or villain depending on the plot."

She was always interesting, except in the fifth season. She didn't have time to show herself as a villain. And that has nothing to do with Ch'rell. The writers later redeemed her, adding more to her. They even took a nice turn with her in Turtles Forever, having her rebel aganst her father.

And how is this connected to Ch'rell anyway?

Less horrible than it was under Ch'rell in "Same as it Never Was," yet even there, Karai was still stupidly loyal to him.

How was that life more horrible?

She hadn't been a young girl for a long time. As an adult, Karai could have outfought just about anyone, lived a life of luxury as the leader of a vast criminal empire, chosen her own path, wanted for nothing, but she still insisted on suckling up to an adoptive father she should've outgrown.

Having grown up as an honorable person, she felt forever in his debt.

Maybe it's not, but maybe it is; many writers still aren't familiar with the Mirage series.

That relationship wasn't present in the Mirage comics -- Karai and Saki weren't even connected.

It's more subtle in the 2007 film, but it is there. Karai alludes to having unfinished business with the turtles, but it being another fight for another time--and since by all evidence she already rules the Foot Clan, that business is not likely to be just getting the Turtles' help in conquering them.

But instead she plays an assasin. I don't think she's after the turtles, but rather her father.

Who the shell are you to tell me why I hate what I hate; punk?! :tmad: Nobody knows my motives better than myself, so shut up with that allegation right now!

OK. Just calm down. I'm just saying you're really hatin' on Karai, rather than Ch'rell.

All of my reasons for hating Ch'rell would still be valid if Karai didn't exist, and I have a whole post without even mentioning her to prove that claim. To be fair, they're not strictly toward Ch'rell and more towards the whole concept of 4Kids Shredder as a whole, but generally, my point is that whenever the Shredder is around in some form, every other villain gets pushed to the sidelines and the whole arc becomes about yet another fight against him. Repetitive storylines, however common in this medium, are still ideally avoided, and it's enraging how the 2003 show could have done just that if they'd just gotten rid of Shredder permanently. I'd have strongly preferred more Federation, more Triceratons, more Earth Defense Force, more Atlantis, more Time Lords, more Rat King, more of a lot of stuff in the series that was cool but infrequent.

How was the 2k3 show repetitive? Each Shredder brought something new to the table.
OK. Both you just stated your problems with Karai, there lies the problem.
What do you mean by the concept of 4kids Shredder?

I see where you're going with the Shredder biz.
But the minor villains and the villains other than Shredder got ignored after Ch'rell left. There was enough screen time for all the other villains.
In the case with Tengu here, he was the only villain in season 5. There were smaller villains, but only one -- Nano. And he was more of an anti-villain.
Cyber also was mostly in BttS. The only other villain I can remember is Hun.

[ABrown]

For the record, Cyber-Shredder was EXTREMELY one dimensional. He was evil just for the sake of being evil, and really didn't bring anything new to the show. But the Utrom Shredder was a very cool character. I'm not a fan of the Shredder being an utrom, not in the very least. But it was such a great show, and the creators handled the utrom Shredder so well during his three seasons that it wasn't very difficult for me to accept him.

[snake]

Because he was a stupid character and the idea was terrible.

[Ch'redder]

I love Ch'rell-Shredder. Even though he was a tiny red slug, he still managed to be effective and terrifying.

[The Sewer Lord]

Because he was a stupid character and the idea was terrible.
The idea was stupid, but the character was great.

[Vivi]

I liked the idea and thought they executed it well. Who could forget when Shredder got his head lopped off?

[The Sewer Lord]

I liked the idea and thought they executed it well. Who could forget when Shredder got his head lopped off?
Nobody - literally.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I never hated Ch'rell, but I did think it was weird that Karai was so loyal to him even though he was both evil AND an alien slug-brain! Really?! Calling him "father"?! On WHAT world does that make any snese?

[Pterobat]

Karai calls Ch'rell "Father" because he adopted her, and she's still loyal to him--no matter what.

Me? I'm completley on board with Ch'rell being the Shredder's true identity. I didn't have a problem when I saw Turtles Forever, and when I went back and watched the series years later, I thought he was awesome.

Yeah, he's a simplistic villain, but The Shredder usually is, so his appeal depends on if he's entertaining at being, essentially, pure evil. And Ch'rell was. Finding out he was an Utrom didn't diminish his past, because damn that guy had style. He was so cool to watch, and smart as hell, too.

Unless something drastically changes in the future, Ch'rell is probably my favourite Shredder, for sheer entertainment value. Oh, and just insert some blabbity-blah about changes made to adaptations, that everything doesn't have to be the same, et cetera.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, I know he adopted her, but at what point in that relationship did she ever stop to think "my adoptive father is a heartless, ruthless alien that wants to run the world and has clear issues of insanity"? For that matter, I doubt she knew what he was when he first adopted her- he probably kept it hidden from her for a long time. But when she DID find out, how did she NOT freak and want nothing more to do with him??! I mean, there's loyalty, and then there's blind STUPID loyalty (of the kind R&B are known for in the OT series).

[Ch'redder]

Because she's insane.

[gobo]

On WHAT world does that make any snese?
*AHCHOO!!!!*
On this one, I guess.
*sniffle*

[Dane E5R]

I have to laugh at someone claiming that they hated Ch'rell, and Ch'rell specifically, because he was a one dimensional evil for the sake of being evil character.

When has the Shredder, in any incarnation, ever been anything more than just that?

[Pterobat]

There's dumb-stupid and there's honour-stupid. Karai felt a sense of duty to the Shredder as her mentor and parental figure, and it was hard for her to see past that. Some characters / people are so devoted to their duties they can't think practically, and become consumed.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

And that's exactly the type of mentality of abused spouses who feel so dependant or indebted to their partner that they never leave even when it's clear that the other person doesn't give a crap. I honestly can't see her in that role of blindly loyal family simply out of a sense of honor or duty. And being raised by him as she was, where would she even GET that kind of ideal of honor?! Certainly not from HIM. He was constantly backstabbing everyone around him, maiming or killing subordinates for even the slightest faliures (Baxter, anyone?! Or that poor schmuck at the beginning of the series that we never saw again...) and deceiving or keeping his agendas hidden from his own people.

I honestly don't see how she would have put up with that attitude her entire life with her strong will, stubbornness, intelligence, and sense of honor. It just doesn't seem believable. In the first place, I'm pretty sure that finding out her "father" was a big alien brain-thing would have been enough to turn her away right then and there. Think of it this way- if you were raised by someone that you KNEW already had questionable morals and ethics, and who NEVER showed any affection or concern toward you, and then found out that "parent" was really from another planet, would YOU still be loyal to them? I doubt it.

In all, I never hated Ch'rell as much as I hated the fact that nothing was ever made of the relationship between them beyond it apparently being some spur of the moment whim and possibly a desire to use her for his own ends that even made him adopt her in the first place. It just seemed so out of character for him to do such a thing, when he'd obviously never cared about having a family before. (1000 yrs on Earth without any family and suddenly he up and decides to raise a kid? Totally not believable...)


Oops!! Uh, yeah, gobo- that was a typo. I meant *sense*. Stupid dyslexic flashes....

[Avatar Yuffie]

I still can't figure out why Karai blamed the Turtles for Shredder's banishment when he was this close of killing her in Exodus.

[MikLeo]

I still can't figure out why Karai blamed the Turtles for Shredder's banishment when he was this close of killing her in Exodus.

Bad writing....

[Gundog]

Its a great idea.....in theory. Poorly executed in some ways

Coming from a guy who grew up on the 2003 series

[Keldor1578]

There already thread about this[URL="http://Why do people hate Ch'rell?"]

[Keldor1578]

I hate to necropost, But can anybody merge these two threads together.

[Drako-Cat]

I hate him because people praise him so much and overlook Drako ( the one who caused the saddest episode in the first place SAINW ), plus he's Shredder that means he's double overrated.

[Konchadunga]

I have to laugh at someone claiming that they hated Ch'rell, and Ch'rell specifically, because he was a one dimensional evil for the sake of being evil character.

When has the Shredder, in any incarnation, ever been anything more than just that?

1) Mirage Series: Shredder, in this original (and as such, prototypical) portrayal was a man acting out of love for his slain brother and anger at Hamato Yoshi for slaying him. Yeah; his brother was a jerk, but it's something else than one-dimensional evil. No world domination or broad sociopathy; it's just very wicked vengeance, and the Mirage series did not blow the Shredder out of proportion to that original goal. Shell; the dude wasn't even keeping his vendetta up after killing Hamato Yoshi; he had no idea Splinter was continuing the feud, and so it's Splinter's fault that he was the Turtles' enemy at all.

2) Fred Wolf Series: Yes; as much as people make it out to be different, and even though it turned Shredder into the Big Bad, he was a fun character who had other traits besides just evil. Granted, he didn't have any moments of being compassionate, but he was somewhat relatable because his coworkers were extremely obnoxious, and he acted the way a lot of us want to act in reaction to such coworkers. He also made jokes.

So there's your argument debunked right there, but here's even more points against it. The first is that just because a character starts as one-dimensional does not mean you keep him that way. Most classic villains have undergone a great degree of development since their inception. The second is that it's not just that Ch'rel was one-dimensionally evil; it's that nobody else in the whole series was; it had the potential to do a lot better, yet even so, it chose to focus on the least-interesting villain it had.

[Keldor1578]

People should just be happy there was at least a human Oroku Saki in the 4Kids cartoon.

[BubblyShell22]

I never hated Ch'rell and thought that Shredder being an Utrom was pretty neat, especially when we found out exactly why he was being questioned for all those crimes he committed and that he actually went by different aliases. I think that he was truly evil. Granted, his reason for going after the Turtles was a bit one-dimensional as he gave the excuse that just because Leo didn't join him, he was going against them. But other than that, he was still pretty evil with what else he did.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

But it wasn't just because Leo wouldn't join him- he wanted to wipe Splinter out because of his association with Hamato Yoshi. He was still ticked that Yoshi had managed to stand up to him and keep him from finding the Utroms, and since Splinter trained the Turtles based on HIS teaching, it was just more fuel for the fire, so to speak.

[Shiro Kame]

I think it's because Ch'Rell is the only incarnation of Shredder that's an alien.

[Keldor1578]

We have two threads about why do people hate Ch'rell, Why hasn't this been merged.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

ch'rell is my favorite incarnation of the shredder.

he looks brilliant, has a scary voice, has a scary theme and also was a match for the turtles

[InsaneZane]

because his name sounds like Jor'el... the whole idea behind combining shredder and Krang was lame in the first place. He wasn't the Shredder, he was an alien poser. Oroku Saki is the Shredder, and he's human. Its that simple why he was hated. from what i read and hear though it seems he had a lot of fans. no matter how unoriginal he was

[Redeemer]

because his name sounds like Jor'el... the whole idea behind combining shredder and Krang was lame in the first place. He wasn't the Shredder, he was an alien poser. Oroku Saki is the Shredder, and he's human. Its that simple why he was hated. from what i read and hear though it seems he had a lot of fans. no matter how unoriginal he was

I am agreeing with Zane I just didn''t like the fact he wasn't human. I dont hate him, he was still a great character, it just wan't for me...

[Krang100]

When i saw it for the first time, i thought it was very strange, i saw Mirage Comics and Oroku Saki was human, and he turned evil because Hamato Yoshi killed his brother Oroku Nagi, as well in the original cartoon he was human.

After this, is implied in fact Oroku Nagi never exists in this continuity, and Ch'rell is a new character who mere usurps/disguises Oroku Saki. Ch'rell never exists in mirage comic, and he didn't extis outside of 2003 cartoons. Oddly many fans (and Peter Laird himself) still regards him as Oroku Saki/Shredders despite this Shredder was an allien.

To bring the true Oroku Saku they created Tengu Shredder, although he lived in japannese feudal era, this Oroku Saki was human, but he merged with the demon Shredder to formed Tengu Shredder. This Shredder was actually human before turned a demon, he could be regards as the true Oroku Saki.

Cyber Shredder is a mere clone of Ch'rell to me, i disregard it as the Shredder, but i regard him as a mere extention. But the show itself regards it as a Shredder.

The most popular of 2003's cartoon, was Ch'rell because he was the antagonist a lot more often than the other two, and the first Shredder to be showed as well.

I think the true reason to make him a ultron, it was after his fight with Leo, he beheaded the Shredder, in Mirage Comic it was his end, here is another defeat to him, because it was his true head.

[Krang100]

To me, Ch'rell is not Oroku Saki, but a poser, the show it self treated Ch'rell as the true Shredder. Ch'rell is the most evil incarnation of the Shredder.

Shredder's mirage comic, despite he was a criminal, he reason to kill Hamato Yoshi, is because the later killed his brother, his enmity with the turtles was a cycle of hate and revanche between Yoshi family and Oroku family, he was killed in the 1st comic.

Shredder's Fred Wolf, was the main villain, but despite he appears more often than his countpart, he was a lot comical and a lot less evil.

This Shredder is a complete monster who has zero honor, and lack of compassion and regard of the humanity, a example is his vicious and cruel treatment to Baxter Stockman, maims him to the point only left a brain with a eye. Even although Baxter Stockman was so evil, didn't deserve this monstrous act, and it wasn't the worst act from Shredder. He may not be human, but he was actualy a true nightmare and scared a lot more than his previous countpart.

[Machias Banshee]

There already thread about this[URL="http://Why do people hate Ch'rell?"]

Cuz nobody mentioned it before... :P

Threads are merged. :) May get a lil confusing at times...

[Keldor1578]

It was just a lame idea. And everybody was too blinded by the cartoony Uncle Phil Shredder to think the Shredder could be a normal human and still be bad-ass. Well, KA-BAM!!! 2013 TMNT prooved you wrong.

The 4Kids Shredder is still a bigger badass and more competent than the Nick Shredder.

[Keldor1578]

ch'rell is my favorite incarnation of the shredder.

he looks brilliant, has a scary voice, has a scary theme and also was a match for the turtles

By far the most dangerous iteration of the Shredder, I have feeling that the Nick Shredder is not going to come close to the threat that was the 4Kids Shredder. .

[Coola Yagami]

By far the most dangerous iteration of the Shredder, I have feeling that the Nick Shredder is not going to come close to the threat that was the 4Kids Shredder. .

We'll have to wait and see. The series isn't even far from over yet.

[TurtleFan2012]

Me personally, I like him. It's not like he was a freckle-face geek pretending to be a badass, he really does think of himself as the villain of legend. This guy can rip you apart without the suit.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

i like ch'rell. he is my favorite shredder.

i liked the character even more when i found out he was an utrom. it was a good twist me-thinks.

tengu shredder was alright. he was evil just because he was a demon.

[Raphaeline]

The annoying thing is that he always comes back, and never dies...

[Shark_Blade]

I like Oroku Saki; you know, the Japanese crime lord. But then he became a dull slob of brain. And I hate it so much.

I still like 2k3 series, but not THAT Shredder.

I think it's the drastic change to the character. People are used to Shredder being a human (for the most part...:P). To have him be a alien blob seems kind of anticlimactic. That and it allows for way too many "Shredder is Krang" parallels.

The concept of Shredder being an utrom just never completely made sense to me. In the first season, Shredder was a Japanese crime lord who became obsessed with the turtles because they interfered with his business. Then all of a sudden, out of no where, we find out that he's actually this world conquering alien. The two are so radically different that I just never completely believed it. I was ok with it because the utrom persona was rarely featured in the show. The majority of the time that the character was shown was as Oroku Saki, and I really liked that. I thought that it was really cool to not see him as Shredder every time he was shown.


Yes to all above.

[Raphaeline]

But the design looked good. That version of Shredder looks very dangerous and menacing.

[frank_one]

Ch'rell and the Shredder as an Utrom were among the most interesting and original concepts of that series. I liked him.

[Vivi]

Ch'rell and the Shredder as an Utrom were among the most interesting and original concepts of that series. I liked him.

Same here. I freakin dig him.

[Pterobat]

Same here. I freakin dig him.

One True Shredder. *nods*

[Avatar Yuffie]

He's simply immersion breaking.

Now everytime I watch earlier episodes, whenever he uses his humanoid body to do random mundane stuff like drinking tea, I can't help imagine Ch'rell using either an esophagus straw or he's swimming in tea because it relieves his muscles or something. Everytime the camera zooms into his human face, I don't attach that face to the Shredder anymore. Just the alien in his stomach.

And proof ninja aliens just don't mix well together. I really stopped taking him seriously after that reveal.

[Raphaeline]

He's simply immersion breaking.

Now everytime I watch earlier episodes, whenever he uses his humanoid body to do random mundane stuff like drinking tea, I can't help imagine Ch'rell using either an esophagus straw or he's swimming in tea because it relieves his muscles or something. Everytime the camera zooms into his human face, I don't attach that face to the Shredder anymore. Just the alien in his stomach.

And proof ninja aliens just don't mix well together. I really stopped taking him seriously after that reveal.

Interesting, I didn't think about that :lol:when he is in the Shredder body I forget he is an alien in fact... a bit like Baxter Stockman, when I see his robot body and his hologram face, I focus on the face and forget he's just a brain floating in a tube.

[BabyTurtles]

you know what's funny XD

I totally skipped the episode of Shredder being revealed as an alien, so all this time I thought Shredder was still a human in 4kids LOL

about a year ago I found out he wasn't XD


that said...I like my Shredders human :3 he seemed so vulnerable as a little red alien :3 but he kicked butt in that robot suit, I'll give him that :D

[CyberCubed]

I wonder if Ch'rell was Krang instead if people would have a problem with it.

[ABrown]

I wonder if Ch'rell was Krang instead if people would have a problem with it.

If everything were the same, except that his Utrom name was "Krang" instead of "Ch'rell"??? I don't know. I wouldn't like it, but that name alone is no where near enough to make me not enjoy the show.

Like I said before, I accepted it because of the way that it was handled. We, the viewiers, virtually never saw him in his utrom form. He was mostly shown as Oroku Saki, or as the Shredder.

[CyberCubed]

If everything were the same, except that his Utrom name was "Krang" instead of "Ch'rell"??? I don't know. I wouldn't like it, but that name alone is no where near enough to make me not enjoy the show.

Like I said before, I accepted it because of the way that it was handled. We, the viewiers, virtually never saw him in his utrom form. He was mostly shown as Oroku Saki, or as the Shredder.

Indeed I had no problem with it. Especially since in Season 5 we find out there actually was a human Oroku Saki who lived in ancient Japan.

[pannoni1]

Come to think about it, Ch'rell was basically the 4kids equivalent of Kraang prime, and it really waters down the big villain. It also lowers the spiritual importance to Splinter and makes him feel less inspired to defeat him. 4kids was just trying to let casual fans believe that the Utrom Shredder was human and like the older ones. Also, Ch'rell sounds a bit like a feminine character.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Interesting, I didn't think about that :lol:when he is in the Shredder body I forget he is an alien in fact... a bit like Baxter Stockman, when I see his robot body and his hologram face, I focus on the face and forget he's just a brain floating in a tube.

Not really, whenever I see Baxter Stockman in a human un-maimed body I just feel sorry for him sometimes.

[Plasticplayhouse]

i dislike ch'rell because they combined shredder and krang. it seemed like such a forced idea for a new villian. they mustve been like, "hmmm, we need a new villian....hey! i got it! lets combine krang and shredder! this villian will be doubley bad!!!"

they may as well combined the four turtles into two, making them mega turtles. Mikanardo can wield the amazing swordchucks and Raphatello will stab evildoers from a distance with his saibo.

i dont think i will ever like this character.

[Keldor1578]

i dislike ch'rell because they combined shredder and krang. it seemed like such a forced idea for a new villian. they mustve been like, "hmmm, we need a new villian....hey! i got it! lets combine krang and shredder! this villian will be doubley bad!!!"

they may as well combined the four turtles into two, making them mega turtles. Mikanardo can wield the amazing swordchucks and Raphatello will stab evildoers from a distance with his saibo.

i dont think i will ever like this character.

It was Peter laird idea, He made Oroku Saki into an utrom so he can have deeper connection to the turtles's origin.

[Keldor1578]

We'll have to wait and see. The series isn't even far from over yet.

well the Nick Shredder doesn't seem to be as competent as the 4Kids Shredder.

[Metalwolf]

well the Nick Shredder doesn't seem to be as competent as the 4Kids Shredder.The Nick show just barely got done it's first season. They're still introducing all of the major players at this point. Plus he's still using Dogpound and Fishface, two guys he clearly looks to be getting tired of, especially with all of their failures. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually get 'replaced' by Bebop and Rocksteady, if they ever appear on this show.

Anyway, I don't like Ch'Rell because I don't like the idea of an alien Shredder. I don't mind him himself, but not as the Shredder. To me, it just takes away from the idea of it all, because it implies that the only way Shredder can be epically badass is by not being human.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

To me, it just takes away from the idea of it all, because it implies that the only way Shredder can be epically badass is by not being human.

He wasn't an epic bad-ass. He was defeatable. As was the Tengu Shredder he modeled himself after, who was ALSO defeatable.

[Coola Yagami]

He wasn't an epic bad-ass. He was defeatable. As was the Tengu Shredder he modeled himself after, who was ALSO defeatable.

Aren't all villains defeatable? Ch'Rell got his ass kicked twice in the first season.