Proper endings if had that been the final episode

[pannoni1]

Similar to what is being discussed on the General forum, let's describe some places in the 4kids series where had that been the final episode, it would still have been a fitting end to the series. My choices are:

1. Return to New York, Part 3- Ends with the Shredder killed, The Foot Headquarters destroyed, and the Foot Clan disorganized.
2. Exodus, Part 2- Ends with defeat of the Shredder in space, and given the next episode's intro stated "We Shredded Shredder!", it would have been a fitting finale.
3. Enter The Dragons, Part 2- Ends with defeat of the Shredder and would had been great not realizing there was FF and BTTS.

[ToTheNines]

1. Absolutely not, Splinter was still missing at the end of the episode.

2. Yes. There was a few loose plot lines, but that one would have been a fine finale (glad it wasn't though lol).

3. Fair enough, except I really liked Fast Forward and a small handful of BttS episodes. Plus there was the one Turtles Forever thingy... remember?

[ABrown]

Enter The Dragons or Turtles Forever were both very good ways to end the show. Exodus or Wedding Bells And Bytes both could've worked, but they weren't quite as good as ETD or TF.

[gobo]

"The Shredder Wars" Part Thirteen

[CyberCubed]

The series could have easily ended at the end of Season 3, or Season 5.

Those are really the only two big stopping points that could have been viewed as the ending.

[Icebot]

I think Secret Origins would work too. The Utroms finally go home after 1,000 years, the Shredder's secret is revealed, he is supposedly destroyed when the TCRI building implodes.

I don't know about Turtles Forever since the turtles lost their lair again and didn't get a new one.

Definitely Exodus and Enter The Dragons.

[k_lala]

the end of Ninja Tribunal was the perfect ending. Everything after that other than the movie we can forget that happened.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Even though I'm not a big fan of the ninja tribunal season I always felt it's final episode worked great as a series finale.

I'm gonna go on a limb here though and say I actually liked fast forward, especially the later episodes.

I would've prefered a second season of it wrapping up the dark turtles and Darius Dun over Btts any day.

Did they ever wrap up their stories in those UK fast forward comics anyway?

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Did they ever wrap up their stories in those UK fast forward comics anyway?

Huh? Comics? What the hey are you talking about?

[Spitfire]

Huh? Comics? What the hey are you talking about?

In the UK there was a TMNT magazine that had a FF comic in it. I have a few issues of it.

I wouldn't call TF an ending for 2K3. It doesn't really fit into any set continuity for the 2K3 turtles. Couldn't be during BTTS because Splinter is missing, can't be during FF because they're in the future, and it couldn't really be during S4 because they didn't have that lair yet.

Anyways I think besides "Enter The Dragons", "Tale of Master Yoshi" would have made a good series closer. Maybe a little bit of restructuring would be necessary. Wouldn't have been the most awesome explosive ending but if placed after a huge event it could have worked well.

[Hermano Dyvas]

In the UK there was a TMNT magazine that had a FF comic in it. I have a few issues of it.

Exactly


I wouldn't call TF an ending for 2K3. It doesn't really fit into any set continuity for the 2K3 turtles. Couldn't be during BTTS because Splinter is missing, can't be during FF because they're in the future, and it couldn't really be during S4 because they didn't have that lair yet.

It fits right after BTTS ended though.

[ZariusTwo]

In the UK there was a TMNT magazine that had a FF comic in it. I have a few issues of it.

I wouldn't call TF an ending for 2K3. It doesn't really fit into any set continuity for the 2K3 turtles.

What the f*ck are you talking about? It's clearly set straight after BTTS, and Splitner was succesfully recovered before the finale of that season.

[Spitfire]

I don't see how that is. Serling was living with them, as I recall he's used to defeat Cyber Shredder. I guess you could assume he went back with Cody but it was never addressed. Also if it takes place after BTTS why is it Karai who saves Shredder and not Khan? Khan was the one running the Foot in Shredder's stead at that point not Karai.

[CyberCubed]

I don't see how that is. Serling was living with them, as I recall he's used to defeat Cyber Shredder. I guess you could assume he went back with Cody but it was never addressed. Also if it takes place after BTTS why is it Karai who saves Shredder and not Khan? Khan was the one running the Foot in Shredder's stead at that point not Karai.

Its pretty obvious Serling when back to the future in between the span. They obviously didn't want to take up time out of the movie to show a detail like that. Cody was shown watching April/Casey's wedding in the finale.

Khan was also arrested at the end of BTTS when Silver Sentry rounded him up.

I think you're the only person to claim it doesn't fit in after the end of BTTS.

[Spitfire]

Characters being arrested has hardly ever stopped them in any cartoon. Either way TF to me exists in it's own timeline that pulls from the parts of continuity it needs to in order for the story to play out. It takes place during the first season of the OT and yet is never mentioned in the OT, for obvious reasons. It takes place during the first issue of the Mirage comic yet is never mentioned again in it, for obvious reasons. Pretty big event to never be spoken of again. So why should it have a set place in the 2K3 continuity either?

[CyberCubed]

OK. Its pretty much common sense to everyone else that it takes place after BTTS and acts as the series finale.

[ToTheNines]

Characters being arrested has hardly ever stopped them in any cartoon. Either way TF to me exists in it's own timeline that pulls from the parts of continuity it needs to in order for the story to play out. It takes place during the first season of the OT and yet is never mentioned in the OT, for obvious reasons. It takes place during the first issue of the Mirage comic yet is never mentioned again in it, for obvious reasons. Pretty big event to never be spoken of again. So why should it have a set place in the 2K3 continuity either?

What are you smoking dude? You can't just say Khan wasn't wrapped up because of a TV trope. Not only are all your points out of left field, literally no one else agrees with you.

On top of all that, how in the hell does it take place during the first season of the OT? I know there's plenty of references to that season, but it takes place mid-season 3 at the absolute earliest (probably later). I mean, there's the "scent analyzer" from season three, the quote of "we battle Shred-head over that stuff all the time", the exploding throwing stars from season two, and the lair they're in is the one from after season 2.

[Spitfire]

They're referred to as the 1988 turtles in the credits, so season 1/2. The fact things from later seasons show up further proves my point it takes place in no set continuity for any of the 3 series. You can try and place it if you want I just don't see a logical way to do so given what I mentioned before. I doubt the creators had a place in mind for it either. They're not even done in the BTTS style. It's its own thing.

If to you it's the finale for the 2K3 series then cool, to me it doesn't work. If that view bothers you so much then that's really quite sad.

[CyberCubed]

If to you it's the finale for the 2K3 series then cool, to me it doesn't work. If that view bothers you so much then that's really quite sad.

I don't think it bothers him, its just that this logic (at least in regards to where it takes place in the 4kids universe), is ridiculous.

Back in 2009 when the movie came out, I didn't see any "confusion" from fans as to where it took place in the 4kids universe. The fact that in the nearly 3 years that this movie existed, you're the only one to try and claim its not in continuity after BTTS is absurd.

I honestly wonder if you're even being serious here, it almost sounds like subtle trolling.

[Spitfire]

I just rewatched it recently and I have a different view on it. It's not confusion on my part. I know exactly what I'm saying and it makes perfect sense. I see it more as a finale for 25 years of TMNT owned by Mirage, not 2K3. The 2K3 series ended when BTTS did. This movie was a little bonus made by the creators for fans of turtles as a whole not as just part of 2K3.

[CyberCubed]

I just rewatched it recently and I have a different view on it. It's not confusion on my part. I know exactly what I'm saying and it makes perfect sense. I see it more as a finale for 25 years of TMNT owned by Mirage, not 2K3. The 2K3 series ended when BTTS did. This movie was a little bonus made by the creators for fans of turtles as a whole not as just part of 2K3.

The movie pretty much wrapped up the entire 4kids universe and acted as the finale for it. The fact that you're questioning where Serling is, as if we can't put 2 and 2 together and figure he was sent back to the future off-screen prior to the movie is ridiculous.

I really don't know why you're arguing this. Be honest, is this just subtle trolling because you're losing interest in the TMNT franchise?

[Spitfire]

What is with all the trolling remarks? I'm not "trolling" I'm stating my opinion on how I view the film. Believe me when I tell you I have better things to do then "troll" the internet. I come on here to catch up on turtles and post once in awhile. The fact I even have to argue this is quite dumb. While the Serling and Khan remarks are admittedly weak my overall reason stands perfectly strong. Like I said before I see it as a finale for 25 years of TMNT owned by Mirage, not 2K3. To me 2K3 ended with BTTS. I don't care if anyone else agrees and the fact my personal opinion is being questioned so much is completely asinine.

I know the internet is all about self satisfaction and going "LOLZ ur wrong! I am Rite! Derp!" but I'd like to imagine this place isn't like that.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, but this isn't opinions. Its clearly set after BTTS.

Now if you were arguing if/where it takes place for the original cartoon or Mirage stuff....then that's reasonable.

However in terms of the 4kids universe, its pretty much directly set. Even the episode numbers (when it was split into 3 eps on TV), were 157, 158, and 159 I believe...this was stated by that 4kidsChris guy who used to post here around the time the show was ending.

[ToTheNines]

If to you it's the finale for the 2K3 series then cool, to me it doesn't work. If that view bothers you so much then that's really quite sad.

Sorry if I seem amped up, should probably tone down some of the vocabulary lol. I just like to debate (especially timeline stuff), I'm not really arguing with you.

If that's what helps you enjoy the movie more, I'm all for it. But I think the reason it feels like it's not 100 percent firmly planted at any point in the 2k3 shows timeline was done on purpose by the creative team in order to not alienate any casual fans who happened to watch the movie. Them as well as the fans of the OT or Mirage that didn't pay any attention to the seven seasons worth of baggage the show had with it, leaving us dedicated followers of the show to use our imaginations and connect the dots where necessary.

[Spitfire]

Yeah, but this isn't opinions. Its clearly set after BTTS.

Now if you were arguing if/where it takes place for the original cartoon or Mirage stuff....then that's reasonable.

However in terms of the 4kids universe, its pretty much directly set. Even the episode numbers (when it was split into 3 eps on TV), were 157, 158, and 159 I believe...this was stated by that 4kidsChris guy who used to post here around the time the show was ending.

I never really understood people's need to argue someone's opinion. If I view TF as a salmon and you say "No TF is not a salmon it's a movie!" and I say "To me it's a salmon and I don't really care if anyone else thinks so, this is how I perceive it." What about that makes you go "No I must prove to him that it is not a salmon. If he thinks it's something different then I do it ruins it for me and changes it forever!"

You clearly chose to look past the words "I think", "to me", and "opinion" in my posts. I never said "My word is law and everything I say must be fact because I'm know it all man!" I said, and I'll quote one final time as you seem to keep misinterpreting it, "I see it as a finale for 25 years of TMNT owned by Mirage, not 2K3. To me 2K3 ended with BTTS."

You know like how people chose to ignore season 5 of X-men TAS and for them the finale is "Beyond Good and Evil". Some thought "Out of the Past" made a better finale for Batman Beyond then "Unmasked". Some people decide what Mirage stories are canon and which ones aren't, even if stated otherwise by the creators. I don't think anymore examples are necessary.

Sorry if I seem amped up, should probably tone down some of the vocabulary lol. I just like to debate (especially timeline stuff), I'm not really arguing with you.
I like to debate too but sometimes you brick wall. It's all good.

If that's what helps you enjoy the movie more, I'm all for it. But I think the reason it feels like it's not 100 percent firmly planted at any point in the 2k3 shows timeline was done on purpose by the creative team in order to not alienate any casual fans who happened to watch the movie. Them as well as the fans of the OT or Mirage that didn't pay any attention to the seven seasons worth of baggage the show had with it, leaving us dedicated followers of the show to use our imaginations and connect the dots where necessary.
Exactly! That's a good theory and probably 100% correct.

[CyberCubed]

]
You clearly chose to look past the words "I think", "to me", and "opinion" in my posts. I never said "My word is law and everything I say must be fact because I'm know it all man!" I said, and I'll quote one final time as you seem to keep misinterpreting it, "I see it as a finale for 25 years of TMNT owned by Mirage, not 2K3. To me 2K3 ended with BTTS."

Because we're not arguing opinions here. Its the same thing if you were to argue that Fast Forward didn't take place after Season 5, or that BTTS didn't come directly after Fast Forward.

These episodes were produced in order where they were intended to fit in. Its not like everyone views FF prior to the Lost Season simply because they aired on TV in the wrong order.

You know like how people chose to ignore season 5 of X-men TAS and for them the finale is "Beyond Good and Evil". Some thought "Out of the Past" made a better finale for Batman Beyond then "Unmasked". Some people decide what Mirage stories are canon and which ones aren't, even if stated otherwise by the creators. I don't think anymore examples are necessary.

Unlike the other stuff you mentioned, this show was produced in a very clear and concise order, and there aren't any "canon" or "non-canon" stories.

[gobo]

Pointless argument is pointless... At Spit's theory that Turtles Forever is not in the continuity of the 4KIDS series, my reaction was "WTF? Really? Umm... whatever" since there's zero reason to believe that it doesn't follow the events of Back To The Sewer and the movie was even produced by 4KIDS. However, the obsessed fanboy who won't leave it alone is the one seriously getting on my nerves.

P.S. - I choose to believe Spit was just saying that Turtles Forever was primarily a finale to Mirage's "era" than it is to the 4KIDS series.

[CyberCubed]

P.S. - I choose to believe Spit was just saying that Turtles Forever was primarily a finale to Mirage's "era" than it is to the 4KIDS series.

Its a farewell letter to all 3 TMNT universes.

[Spitfire]

P.S. - I choose to believe Spit was just saying that Turtles Forever was primarily a finale to Mirage's "era" than it is to the 4KIDS series.
Yes that is what I meant. I also view it as non-canon for all 3 series given it's nature. And Mirage era of course means Mirage being in charge of TMNT not just the comic series.

[CyberCubed]

Just curious, is there ANYONE else out there who thinks Turtles Forever is "non-canon" to the 4kids universe? Considering this is the first time I've ever read this in the 2+ years this movie has existed, I don't believe so.

[Spitfire]

I got a better one. Does anyone but you care that I choose to view it that way? I think not.

[CyberCubed]

I got a better one. Does anyone but you care that I choose to view it that way? I think not.

Its not that it matters to me, its more that I am trying to understand your reasoning.

I can see it not being canon to Mirage (obviously, that's not how #1 plays out), and I can kinda see it not being canon to the original cartoon (although it can easily fit in during Season 3 sometime), but for the 4kids series it was also written quite clearly as a finale, taking place right after BTTS.

All the characters were how we left them, the Turtles had their new lair from BTTS, Ch'rell was still on the ice asteroid from the end of Season 3, Casey/April had their BTTS designs, etc.

Bring up Serling or Khan is pointless. Its like wondering where The Ancient one or Leatherhead was.

[Krang]

Let's please just agree to disagree and move on.

[ZariusTwo]

Its not that it matters to me, its more that I am trying to understand your reasoning.

I can see it not being canon to Mirage (obviously, that's not how #1 plays out), and I can kinda see it not being canon to the original cartoon (although it can easily fit in during Season 3 sometime)

I still say you can fit it in after season 10 and write a fanfic explaining why Channel Six is back and The Technodrome is up and running again. The fact The Technodrome is NOT restored to it's normal design alone makes it stand out so it can't possibly be set during season three

You know like how people chose to ignore season 5 of X-men TAS and for them the finale is "Beyond Good and Evil". Some thought "Out of the Past" made a better finale for Batman Beyond then "Unmasked"

Batman Beyond's finale is the JLU story "Epilouge", which is also intended by the creators to be the last ever episode of the entire DCAU. Prior to "Epilouge" we also had the movie "Return of the Joker" which also could have been seen as a better finale than "Unmasked"

That said, I do that kind of thing all the time with cartoons and comics. Hell there are fans that think the MC2 universe (where a much older Peter Parker is a happily married father of two) is the real Spider-Man continuity and ignore the mainstream books (which are a continuity nightmare)

[ToTheNines]

I still say you can fit it in after season 10 and write a fanfic explaining why Channel Six is back and The Technodrome is up and running again. The fact The Technodrome is NOT restored to it's normal design alone makes it stand out so it can't possibly be set during season three

Personally, this is how I look at it too.

However, it could also be set as early as mid season three if you just assume that the events of Turtles Forever create a continuity that branches off from that season. That's definitely what I imagine with the Mirage continuity though, Turtles Forever interrupts issue #1 and creates a whole new universe that runs separately from Mirage canon, but wouldn't really be all that different.

[CyberCubed]

Although its fair to think that, I don't like it being at the end of Season 10 at all. I like the idea of the Turtles Vs. Shredder storyline essentially came to an end, rather than apparently going on forever.

Likewise April quit Channel 6 at the end of Season 8 and was working as a freelance reporter in Seasons 9 and 10, so I don't see why she would go back there just because the building was rebuilt.

The writers simply chose the most popular era of the old toon to fit it in, which was likely Season 3, because that's after the initial events of the show were established from Seasons 1-2 but it wasn't too far into the series like Seasons 4+ where the Technodrome was in Dimension X or the Arctic or underwater.

[ToTheNines]

Although its fair to think that, I don't like it being at the end of Season 10 at all. I like the idea of the Turtles Vs. Shredder storyline essentially came to an end, rather than apparently going on forever.

I like the idea of stuff going on forever. Just like Image #23 said: "NEVER The End".

Likewise April quit Channel 6 at the end of Season 8 and was working as a freelance reporter in Seasons 9 and 10, so I don't see why she would go back there just because the building was rebuilt.

They offered her a corner office?

Joking aside, I briefly left my place of work this past spring and was rehired.

The writers simply chose the most popular era of the old toon to fit it in, which was likely Season 3, because that's after the initial events of the show were established from Seasons 1-2 but it wasn't too far into the series like Seasons 4+ where the Technodrome was in Dimension X or the Arctic or underwater.

That should have no effect on placement. We see the Technodrome rolling around in the city with no indication of where Shredder had brought it from.

[CyberCubed]

I like the idea of stuff going on forever. Just like Image #23 said: "NEVER The End".

Well OK. I just prefer that Shredder/Krang's story pretty much ended with Season 8, besides their last hurrah in Season 10.

Them somehow reuniting with Bebop/Rocksteady, re-pairing the Technodrome, getting it back to Earth underground, and all going back to the way things were makes for some heavy fanfiction.

Likewise April was pretty fed-up with Burne at the end of Season 8. She was far more independent in Seasons 9-10 not caring about working for the same news crew.

Its obvious they didn't set it after the Red Sky eps because they likely just wanted to choose the most recognizable TMNT old-toon era to place the movie in. Otherwise people would be asking why April is not wearing her yellow jump-suit, etc.

[ToTheNines]

Well OK. I just prefer that Shredder/Krang's story pretty much ended with Season 8, besides their last hurrah in Season 10.

Fair enough.

Them somehow reuniting with Bebop/Rocksteady, re-pairing the Technodrome, getting it back to Earth underground, and all going back to the way things were makes for some heavy fanfiction.

Not really. Bebop and Rocksteady couldn't be hard to find, they repaired the Technodrome all the time, and it was never underground on Earth in the Fred Wolf universe in Turtles Forever, you're thinking of the 2k3 universe.

Plus it's the OT, there was never much explanation to anything so none of that stuff should be too hard to swallow.

Likewise April was pretty fed-up with Burne at the end of Season 8. She was far more independent in Seasons 9-10 not caring about working for the same news crew.

Maybe he no longer works there and that's why she went back.

[Xav]

I don't see how that is. Serling was living with them, as I recall he's used to defeat Cyber Shredder. I guess you could assume he went back with Cody but it was never addressed. Also if it takes place after BTTS why is it Karai who saves Shredder and not Khan? Khan was the one running the Foot in Shredder's stead at that point not Karai. The reason why it was Karai who saves Shredder because she was the one monitoring him.

[ZariusTwo]

Although its fair to think that, I don't like it being at the end of Season 10 at all. I like the idea of the Turtles Vs. Shredder storyline essentially came to an end, rather than apparently going on forever.

That was the charm of the show, that the battle never ended, they could have written off Shredder and Krang after "The Big Blow-Out", but they knew those characters were just too popular. Despite a short hiatus, they came back in season ten for a ratings boost. If the show had continued past season 10, I always figured we'd see them again down the line. Shredder and Krang are stubborn little fellas and if something came along that enabled them to regain their power base, they'd take it. The show doesnt end just because the series was cancelled, it goes on and on in people's imaginations, and in those imaginations, Shredder and Krang got back on top. Easy as that.

Likewise April quit Channel 6 at the end of Season 8 and was working as a freelance reporter in Seasons 9 and 10, so I don't see why she would go back there just because the building was rebuilt.

People have quit their career-making jobs and gone back to them in real life, why can't April? Especially since the ressurection of Channel Six meant high quality production values and a network platform for her. She also struggled as a freelance reporter, to make ends meet, she swallowed her pride and got her job back

[MikeandRaph87]

That was the charm of the show, that the battle never ended, they could have written off Shredder and Krang after "The Big Blow-Out", but they knew those characters were just too popular. Despite a short hiatus, they came back in season ten for a ratings boost. If the show had continued past season 10, I always figured we'd see them again down the line. Shredder and Krang are stubborn little fellas and if something came along that enabled them to regain their power base, they'd take it. The show doesnt end just because the series was cancelled, it goes on and on in people's imaginations, and in those imaginations, Shredder and Krang got back on top. Easy as that.

Exactly. We were lead to believe that Shredder and Krang would be back soon after "Turtle Trek". I doubt David Wise and co. were going to put them to rest after that but it was TPTB at CBS that gave them one. I created a way for them to comeback easily in my own fan-fiction continuation and I am sure others have as well. Who is to say that at the main rock soldiers base that General Traag does not have a small functional portal? Or any number of ways.


People have quit their career-making jobs and gone back to them in real life, why can't April? Especially since the ressurection of Channel Six meant high quality production values and a network platform for her. She also struggled as a freelance reporter, to make ends meet, she swallowed her pride and got her job back.

I did the same thing here, but it needs to be something that would not hurt her character development making it look like she is taking a step back. She might save Burne Thompson's life when he gets in the middle of a fight or maybe Channel Six News is being threatened from going off the air and they need April to help stabilize them? I thought it would have been more interesting if Burne Thompson was the citizen who helped Dregg rally the population of NYC against the TMNT in season 9 and then looked for forgiveness after that.