5 mutants other than the Turtles/Splinter in IDW?

[CyberCubed]

So far we have 4 confirmed mutants, Old Hob, Alopex and the eventual mutation of Bebop/Rocksteady (especially since they say they want to be mutants)

I imagine the 5th mutant we'll see is Leatherhead. No he isn't confirmed so far, but what are the chances of them not using Leatherhead? I say slim to none.

So that will likely be 5 mutants total, more if we do wind up seeing the likes of Slash or others. What should they stop at? 10 mutants max?

[Grimlock]

I think 5 is already too many. It just gets a little cheesy having all these mutants running around.

[Cowabunga Carl]

See for me I don't need a bunch of mutants, but at the same time it wont bother me at the same time. I can see them pacing themselves when adding new mutants. I mean I don't doubt they will hold Venus off tell at least the second year of the comic ;-)

[Solink]

As long as it isn't like the archie comics I don't mind having more mutants. Some will probably get killed by the turtles anyway. Really, how many good human characters could be introduced/created exepted Hun, Tatsu or Bishop? Mutant are more interesting IMO

[Grimlock]

As long as it isn't like the archie comics I don't mind having more mutants. Some will probably get killed by the turtles anyway. Really, how many good human characters could be introduced/created exepted Hun, Tatsu or Bishop? Mutant are more interesting IMO

We won't be seeing the turtles kill anyone. Splinter and his ''no kill policy''. Off panel, I hope so.

[Solink]

We won't be seeing the turtles kill anyone. Splinter and his ''no kill policy''. Off panel, I hope so.
Yeah...I guess you're right. I just hate when bad guys get milked over and over like in the cartoons and I had my hopes up with the presence of blood in the comics. I want my turtles to be badass and deadly.

[TristanHuwJones]

Probably want to get used to the mutant idea. There'd have to be at least 20 in Infestation...

Back on track, as Bobby said, Rocksteady and Bebop aren't necessarily something to bank on yet... ;)

[CyberCubed]

But if those are just background cameos or throwaway nods, it's not like a real character.

[Andrew NDB]

We won't be seeing the turtles kill anyone. Splinter and his ''no kill policy''. Off panel, I hope so.

Splinter only said not to kill Old Hob and his gang. That Splinter felt he had to tell the Turtles that at all implies they've killed in the past and would've otherwise killed those guys if Splinter hadn't said anything... they're just not to kill those guys, for whatever reason. I'm a little bit foggy on why Splinter wouldn't want Old Hob and his gang killed, though... if anything, since it's kind of personal with him, wouldn't that be that much more reason to take him out? For now I'm just chalking it up to stuff/backstory we don't know yet, but eventually that needs to be explained.

If there's seriously an all-out no killing policy then the book ought to adopt the European "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" title, but I don't think that's going to be the case. Though if things are going to reach #8 and the Turtles will still only have ever tangled with Old Hob and his gang (who Splinter expressly told them not to kill) and robotic mousers... I think it'll definitely be time to wonder and question what's going on.

[Donnie]

This is a bit of a radical idea, but I think it'd be cool to introduce the Rat King eventually as a human, have him as an enemy of both the Turtles and Shredder, etc. (on his own, like Mirage) and have him almost killed. The foot finding him (or maybe they are the ones doing the beating) could then take him and mutate him into a rat - the anti-Splinter. I don't know, an evil rat could be kind of cool.

[Grimlock]

This is a bit of a radical idea, but I think it'd be cool to introduce the Rat King eventually as a human, have him as an enemy of both the Turtles and Shredder, etc. (on his own, like Mirage) and have him almost killed. The foot finding him (or maybe they are the ones doing the beating) could then take him and mutate him into a rat - the anti-Splinter. I don't know, an evil rat could be kind of cool.

I think the Rat King is cool enough on his own. If he became a mutated rat I think that would be a little much.

[Andrew NDB]

I think the Rat King is cool enough on his own. If he became a mutated rat I think that would be a little much.

I agree, though there might be a good story in what Donnie is suggesting. i.e., start him out Mirage style, then almost dying, then he's discovered by some faction of the Turtles' enemies -- probably Krang -- and granted his wish... made into a real rat to join Krang's army. Maybe taking orders doesn't work out so great, though, and he just ends up doing his own thing again.

Whatever ends up being the plan with Rat King, he needs to be kind of a "Gray" character. Rat King isn't inherently good or evil, he just is.

[Powder]

This is a bit of a radical idea, but I think it'd be cool to introduce the Rat King eventually as a human, have him as an enemy of both the Turtles and Shredder, etc. (on his own, like Mirage) and have him almost killed. The foot finding him (or maybe they are the ones doing the beating) could then take him and mutate him into a rat - the anti-Splinter. I don't know, an evil rat could be kind of cool.

I've always wanted to see this happen, but not until after a while.

[AcidBurn30]

its not cheesy at all, come on it was fun when were kids when they had a lot of mutains here and there..but the best part is theyre bring back the old ones and making new ones...keep it up i love it!

[Andrew NDB]

its not cheesy at all, come on it was fun when were kids when they had a lot of mutains here and there

Nope, it was cheesy back then too which is why 99% of the fandom outgrew the whole shebang pretty quick.

[Grimlock]

its not cheesy at all, come on it was fun when were kids when they had a lot of mutains here and there..but the best part is theyre bring back the old ones and making new ones...keep it up i love it!

Sharp Cheddar. You don't make much sense, do you?

[Hermano Dyvas]

To me, a TMNT world with a bunch of other mutants always made sense. I mean if mutant turtles, rats and alligators are possible, why should a mutant fox, rhino or warthog be out of the question?

If mutagen exists in-universe it only makes sense that it gets re-used on other creatures.

I agree they shouldn't make TMNT a mutant-of-the-week show of course, but I don't mind if there are a bunch of them running around as long as they're well written.

[Hermano Dyvas]

as Bobby said, Rocksteady and Bebop aren't necessarily something to bank on yet... ;)

Too bad, I was kinda looking forward to IDW's take on their mutated version. Even if it was only for a story or 2.

I guess this means we're being mislead and human-to-animal mutation might not be possible after all.

[Andrew NDB]

To me, a TMNT world with a bunch of other mutants always made sense. I mean if mutant turtles, rats and alligators are possible, why should a mutant fox, rhino or warthog be out of the question?

In general? Because the best TMNT stories are generally ones where the weirdest things in them... are the TMNT themselves. And the more you make the world around them unrecognizeable by filling it chock full of mutants, the more the bottom falls out of the whole thing. Which doesn't mean the Turtles should never encounter other mutants ever... it should just be a pretty big deal when they do -- it can't be a pretty big deal if they're running into new ones every week.

And also, it's called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles," not "Mutant Zoo." And because Kevin and Peter like it that way... and I think I read somewhere that they had something to do with the TMNT once.

[Hermano Dyvas]

In general? Because the best TMNT stories are generally ones where the weirdest things in them... are the TMNT themselves. And the more you make the world around them unrecognizeable by filling it chock full of mutants, the more the bottom falls out of the whole thing. Which doesn't mean the Turtles should never encounter other mutants ever... it should just be a pretty big deal when they do -- it can't be a pretty big deal if they're running into new ones every week.

And also, it's called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles," not "Mutant Zoo." And because Kevin and Peter like it that way... and I think I read somewhere that they had something to do with the TMNT once.

Well, no, I don't mean as in TMNT stories should be all about mutants all the time. I just mean fans shouldn't find it weird other mutants show up in a world where mutagen exists. I kind of consider mutants being a part of the world of TMNT.

I'm actually a fan of more realistic, grounded TMNT stories too but sci-fi has always been a part of TMNT as well. TMNT stories can really work on so many different types of levels and mutants are only a part of that.

[Candy Kappa]

To me, a TMNT world with a bunch of other mutants always made sense. I mean if mutant turtles, rats and alligators are possible, why should a mutant fox, rhino or warthog be out of the question?.

It's not that it's out of the question, it's that in the Mirage comics and the 4Kids series, it was a freak accident, a one of a kind happening.

In the new IDW series it seems like the Mutagen is made on purpose, unlike the original comics.

[Matches Malone]

And also, it's called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles," not "Mutant Zoo." And because Kevin and Peter like it that way... and I think I read somewhere that they had something to do with the TMNT once.

Well, it's a good thing we Kevin Eastman on board, so now you have nothing to worry about ever again, right? :)

It's not that it's out of the question, it's that in the Mirage comics and the 4Kids series, it was a freak accident, a one of a kind happening.

In the new IDW series it seems like the Mutagen is made on purpose, unlike the original comics.

I actually think it is slightly more believable to have a mutagen by design (still in accident in some ways since I don't think it was intended for turtles) as opposed to mutagen waste that mutated you and made you smarter instead of killed you from toxic poisoning. I do agree though, that if mutants, while plausible in this universe, are harder to come by, then it makes it more believable and interesting since mutants are not possible at all in real life. As I've said before, I miss that the "outcast" aspect of the turtles isn't really present so far in the new comic series. There hasn't been much mention of needing to stick to the shadows because the outside world would fear them a la X-Men.

[Candy Kappa]

The turtles got the Super Soldier Mutagen and Terrapin/Human Exo-Armor, and Splinter got his Psychotropic Serum. Does this mean they are extra special mutants?

[Matches Malone]

The turtles got the Super Soldier Mutagen and Terrapin/Human Exo-Armor, and Splinter got his Psychotropic Serum. Does this mean they are extra special mutants?

I suppose in a sense. Again, I think it's just an attempt to explain things a bit more. After all, just because your body mutates, doesn't mean you don't still have the brain of a turtle or a rat. These elements are introduced to explain the physical as well as cognitive enhancements on our characters.

As for the Terrapin/Human Exo-Armor, I don't think it was explicit if they were giving the exo-armor to the turtles, or if the turtles were used for research to give others the exo-armor. My guess would be the latter because it might be something Baxter utilizes later to battle the turtles.

[Andrew NDB]

I actually think it is slightly more believable to have a mutagen by design (still in accident in some ways since I don't think it was intended for turtles) as opposed to mutagen waste that mutated you and made you smarter instead of killed you from toxic poisoning.

True. Though whatever waste might come from a Transmat machine that teleports people across galaxies and/or whatever waste would emerge from the Utroms making themselves humanoid, organic skin for their endoskeletons... I dunno, I don't find myself having a huge problem believing that mutagenic ooze that could hyper-evolve living things might emerge from that.

As I've said before, I miss that the "outcast" aspect of the turtles isn't really present so far in the new comic series. There hasn't been much mention of needing to stick to the shadows because the outside world would fear them a la X-Men.

There definitely seems a deemphasis on that. For example, there's Casey in issue #1. And if there's human memories/consciousnesses locked in the Turtles' brains, then when they have total recall they'll essentially just be humans at heart.

[Matches Malone]

True. Though whatever waste might come from a Transmat machine that teleports people across galaxies and/or whatever waste would emerge from the Utroms making themselves humanoid, organic skin for their endoskeletons... I dunno, I don't find myself having a huge problem believing that mutagenic ooze that could hyper-evolve living things might emerge from that.

Yeah, I definitely don't have a huge problem either. It just makes the turtles even more enjoyable to have a stronger origin (on the sci-fi aspect, at least) and I think it is one of the best things the new series has going for it. They maintain the "accident" aspect while presenting a more plausible scenario for it.

[Candy Kappa]

I suppose in a sense. Again, I think it's just an attempt to explain things a bit more. After all, just because your body mutates, doesn't mean you don't still have the brain of a turtle or a rat. These elements are introduced to explain the physical as well as cognitive enhancements on our characters.

The don't "just" mutate, they turn humanoid in their mutation.

Humanoid body, fingers, pose-able thumbs, speech ability, teeth (for the turtles), human like feet. So making them more "human" in way of thinking and making them more intelligent isn't that big of a stretch. It;s not their body, it's everything that changes even their brains.

And it's common comic book logic that radioactive waste gives you super powers or gives a non-humanoid humanoid features, or makes monkeys into super intelligent beings.

[Matches Malone]

The don't "just" mutate, they turn humanoid in their mutation.

Humanoid body, fingers, pose-able thumbs, speech ability, teeth (for the turtles), human like feet. So making them more "human" in way of thinking and making them more intelligent isn't that big of a stretch. It;s not their body, it's everything that changes even their brains.

And it's common comic book logic that radioactive waste gives you super powers or gives a non-humanoid humanoid features, or makes monkeys into super intelligent beings.

I understand that, which is why I said I don't really have a problem with the Mirage origin at all. I just appreciate the effort IDW is making to give a bit more credibility to comic book logic, giving you more reason to believe this could happen. Of course there are plenty of times we have to suspend our disbelief, but if they can make it easier to do so, it allows one to enjoy the story more, at least for me.

[Venom]

Probably want to get used to the mutant idea. There'd have to be at least 20 in Infestation...

Back on track, as Bobby said, Rocksteady and Bebop aren't necessarily something to bank on yet... ;)

What about the Punk Frogs?

They came before those punk ass Battletoads! :P

Also, since this is somewhat the catch-all mutant thread, what about a bird mutant like Al Falqa or the Owl Mutant from the TMNT Magazine. The one thing I hated about the owl's design was his beak was his nose, and he had mouth underneath. That bothered me more than the face he has two sets of "arms".

[Matches Malone]

I'm not concerned with # of mutants so much as how they are introduced. In Archie, what bugged me was not just that there were so many anthropomorphic animals but they all had different explanations.

Some were mutants, some were aliens, and some were just inexplicably from an "animal race" like Al Falqa or Ninjara. Having anthropomorphic animals is one thing, but it seems pointless to me to make it a point to have the turtles as mutants when they could have been just easily written as part of the "turtle race" or aliens from a turtle planet in that universe. If you want the idea of anthropomorphic animals to seem credible, it is distracting to introduce other far-fetched explanations in addition to mutations. This just looks like the writer is desperate to introduce another animal character (no disrespect to Murphy).

At the least, I hope aliens will actually be aliens and any "animal races" or spirits be done so credibly. I'm happy to suspend my disbelief for the sake of the story, but there are limits to how far you can stretch it before it's too distracting. I know Archie was geared toward younger audiences so they exercised greater flexibility, but I hope that thinking will be ditched for IDW's series.

[Venom]

[QUOTE=Matches Malone;894168]Having anthropomorphic animals is one thing, but it seems pointless to me to make it a point to have the turtles as mutants when they could have been just easily written as part of the "turtle race" or aliens from a turtle planet in that universe.QUOTE]

This is something I think would still make for an interesting story. The Turtles somehow happening across a species of alien turtles; seeing our TMNT as genetic abberations, the Turtles would be outcasts and possibly wanted for study by the aliens.

Who knows, I'm just craving an awesome space story I think lol.

[CyberCubed]

[QUOTE=Matches Malone;894168]Having anthropomorphic animals is one thing, but it seems pointless to me to make it a point to have the turtles as mutants when they could have been just easily written as part of the "turtle race" or aliens from a turtle planet in that universe.QUOTE]

This is something I think would still make for an interesting story. The Turtles somehow happening across a species of alien turtles; seeing our TMNT as genetic abberations, the Turtles would be outcasts and possibly wanted for study by the aliens.

Who knows, I'm just craving an awesome space story I think lol.

They already did that. It's called Planet of the Turtleoids.

[TristanHuwJones]

[QUOTE=Venom;894173]

They already did that. It's called Planet of the Turtleoids.

Key word in what he said was "awesome", Cyber...

:P

[Utromshredderhater]

What do you guys mean by terrapin exo .....Super soldier what ever mutagen?

[Donnie]

What do you guys mean by terrapin exo .....Super soldier what ever mutagen?

...did you read the last 4 issues?

[Utromshredderhater]

...did you read the last 4 issues?
I'm afraid I had to try and save my money for the Holidays. I skimmed a through
and I see splinter the Turtles and no Hamato Yoshi in any form

[CyberCubed]

I'm not concerned with # of mutants so much as how they are introduced. In Archie, what bugged me was not just that there were so many anthropomorphic animals but they all had different explanations.

Some were mutants, some were aliens, and some were just inexplicably from an "animal race" like Al Falqa or Ninjara. Having anthropomorphic animals is one thing, but it seems pointless to me to make it a point to have the turtles as mutants when they could have been just easily written as part of the "turtle race" or aliens from a turtle planet in that universe. If you want the idea of anthropomorphic animals to seem credible, it is distracting to introduce other far-fetched explanations in addition to mutations. This just looks like the writer is desperate to introduce another animal character (no disrespect to Murphy)

Agreed, I think Archie went really overboard with mutants but also animal race beings as you said, but it still worked for that particular series.

The Archie series hardly had any down to earth stories. It was all about demons, aliens, mystic voodoo stuff, etc.

[Hermano Dyvas]

I'm not concerned with # of mutants so much as how they are introduced.

Couldn't agree more with this statement, if they have 10 other mutants running around all with a great story behind them it would not bother me.

In Archie, what bugged me was not just that there were so many anthropomorphic animals but they all had different explanations.

Some were mutants, some were aliens, and some were just inexplicably from an "animal race" like Al Falqa or Ninjara.


What bugged me with characters like Al Falqa also is that no one even acknowledged him as being a humanoid bird, except for some wise-cracks. We don't need humanoid animals just for the hell of it at all.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, I always figured the 4-armed Tiger and Al'Falqa weren't mutants, but rather animal beings like Ninjara's people, or Jaguar.

The Archie universe also has yeti's, sasquatch, Loch ness monsters, etc, so I guess animal beings isn't THAT out of place.

[Donnie]

The Archie universe also has yeti's, sasquatch, Loch ness monsters, etc, so I guess animal beings isn't THAT out of place.

Well, besides the stories being good Archie shouldn't have anything to do with IDW's series. No thanks.