How does the IDW series compare to the Mirage series?

[TonySiegel]

Just as good? Underrated? Better? Worse? Discuss accordingly...

[Powder]

I voted "Worse", but that does not accurately reflect my views. Worse implies that it's bad, which it isn't at all!
It just doesn't compare to Mirage to me, nothing will. Still worth reading though, awesome art, possibly decent stories (too early to say, really).

[ToTheNines]

Much too soon to compare the two. Mirage has like 300+ stories to it's name, and in IDW the Turtles have yet to (as of #6) battle the MOUSERs, fight the Foot, confront Shredder, learn about Krang, meet April, hangout with Casey, go the Northampton, travel time, go to outer space, befriend Leatherhead, etc, etc.

Depending on how IDW handles these things will really affect my opinion on this version of TMNT. But so far, the art is great, the story is intriguing and I can tell the creative team really cares about what they're doing. And, as a bonus, Nickelodeon has yet to piss anyone off.

[Toby Barrett]

I'm going to have to say better, because for the most part, I've consistantly enjoyed it more than I did Mirage.
While the premise itself was awesome, I always felt that characterization was weak and dialouge was stiff in the Mirage comics...

[CyberCubed]

Well I think Mirage #1-11 are the definitive TMNT comics being Eastman/Laird classics and all, but so far IDW is shaping up pretty good.

It is still waaaay too early for this. Ask again in 2-3 years.

[TonySiegel]

I'm really feeling the IDW comics definitely a breath of fresh air. IDW has the blessings of the original creators doesn't seem to be an overt cash grab situation. Still have to properly read the OG series (only read like 4 issues) to better analyze the two.

[if anyone knows how to edit the poll options PM me]

[Powder]

Much too soon to compare the two.

Mostly true, but they've lost points with me due to the colored masks and cartoon based personalities.

I'm going to have to say better, because for the most part, I've consistantly enjoyed it more than I did Mirage.
While the premise itself was awesome, I always felt that characterization was weak and dialouge was stiff in the Mirage comics...

6 issues in? Really now? You clearly did not read much of the Mirage series. I wouldn't be surprised if you're just saying that due to the masks...

[CyberCubed]

I guess the difference is Mirage told whole stories in single issues, while IDW does not. For example:

Mirage #1 gave us the entire backstory, the first Foot Fight, the intro of Shredder and his death.

Mirage #2 introduced April, Baxter, the Mouser story, and April meeting the Turtles.


Meanwhile its taking IDW up to issue 8 to cover everything Mirage did in only 2 issues. I realize Mirage had 40 page books...but even then.

[Kendamu]

The definitive Mirage stuff is definitely classic and some of the newer stuff is also pretty good! However, I felt like there was a lot of "fluff" in between all the super awesome stuff.

IDW is taking off at a much slower pace, but now they have a lot to draw from (including Mirage) and Kevin Eastman now has over 25 years of successes and mistakes to look back on when helping out with these new stories.

While Mirage can be pretty awesome when reading the right stories that have become the basis for so many other Turtles stories in other universes, I feel that IDW has a lot going for it in experience and openness to other interpretations that gives it the potential to become the best version of the Turtles comics.

[Toby Barrett]

6 issues in? Really now? You clearly did not read much of the Mirage series. I wouldn't be surprised if you're just saying that due to the masks...

So I'm not allowed to not care for the Mirage comics?

I've read plenty of Mirage's turtles, actually. I'm just not going to sit here and act like they're the greatest thing in the world, because they're not. and the masks? I don't give two ***** about the masks. Even if you're going to keep crying about it every damn post you make, I'm done talking about the masks.
Considering IDW "lost points" with you because of that very reason, that's a pretty hypocritical assumption to make.

[Samhain]

I won't vote because there really should be a ''Too early to tell'' option. The classics that Eastman and Laird did, IMO, are the best out there. But that doesn't mean IDW ''sucks''. IDW is pulling from all of the turtle universes. So on the one hand it may be your perfect ''Frankenstein'', but to others it could just be a Monster.

I am enjoying IDW no doubt, but there are some things I kinda don't like. Like the masks and some personality traits. Only time will tell where this series stands when it's all said and done. But I'm optimistic.

[Redeemer]

I won't vote because there really should be a ''Too early to tell'' option. The classics that Eastman and Laird did, IMO, are the best out there. But that doesn't mean IDW ''sucks''. IDW is pulling from all of the turtle universes. So on the one hand it may be your perfect ''Frankenstein'', but to others it could just be a Monster.

I am enjoying IDW no doubt, but there are some things I kinda don't like. Like the masks and some personality traits. Only time will tell where this series stands when it's all said and done. But I'm optimistic.

Yeah I agree it too early to tell. Ive the first 19 issues of Mirage and loved them. It jst really hard to say. so far I think Mirage has been better through its first few, but damnt its so hard to chose

[Powder]

So I'm not allowed to not care for the Mirage comics?

Preferring IDW 6 issues in just seems like an outright insult to Mirage, to me.
Barely any ground's been tread, we're pretty much still in the origin...

[Venom]

We've had 8 issues, counting the micros.

Some folks just don't dig the old school, black and white Turtles as much as we harder core Mirage fans do, so to them - like Toby - the series may very well hold enough validity for them to conclude they like it better than Mirage.

Personally, I feel it's more of a harder version of Archie, but I do like the title. More importantly, I get to see the Turtles on the page again, and Tom is doing a good enough job with whatever edicts Nick has given him to want me to continue supporting IDW's TMNT comic efforts.

[Master Splinter]

I like the IDW series just as much as I like the 4Kids Series, and I liked the 4Kids Series just as much as I liked the Archie Series, and even then I liked the Archie Series just as much as the Fred Wolf Series, and if you hadn't guessed I liked the Fred Wolf Series just as much as the Mirage Series. Sprinkle the Image Series on top and I got a nice pile of TMNT goodness I can eat. You don't like onions? Then don't eat them. Just don't insult me when I dip mine in m&m's.

Enjoy life, breath air, peace, love, chicken grease.

-ms

[Samhain]

Then don't eat them. Just don't insult me when I dip mine in m&m's.


-ms

Now that's just gross.

[Toby Barrett]

I like the IDW series just as much as I like the 4Kids Series, and I liked the 4Kids Series just as much as I liked the Archie Series, and even then I liked the Archie Series just as much as the Fred Wolf Series, and if you hadn't guessed I liked the Fred Wolf Series just as much as the Mirage Series. Sprinkle the Image Series on top and I got a nice pile of TMNT goodness I can eat. You don't like onions? Then don't eat them. Just don't insult me when I dip mine in m&m's.

Enjoy life, breath air, peace, love, chicken grease.

-ms

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n35/barrett_toby/Facebook-Like-Button-big.jpg
You're plain awesome.

[Redeemer]

^If only I could like this

[Master Splinter]

Now that's just gross.

I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that.

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/50275_2210968029_5330_n.jpg

-ms

[Dirty Blond]

This may be a topic for another thread, but does anyone think the Turtles will return to their grittier roots?

[FearlessLeader]

We are only six issues in, how can I make any kind of logical judgement as to how I will feel about the IDW series when the characters are barely even developed yet.

:tconfuse:

[Powder]

This may be a topic for another thread, but does anyone think the Turtles will return to their grittier roots?

In rainbow masks? Prolly not.


You asked for it.

[CyberCubed]

This may be a topic for another thread, but does anyone think the Turtles will return to their grittier roots?

We'll likely have to wait for the first Foot Soldier fight for sure.

[ToTheNines]

This book's already had some sweet kills in it, the Turtle's will follow suit.

[CyberCubed]

I am honestly wondering if IDW is going to adapt the main Mirage plotlines, like Return to New York or City at War. We're seeing the Mouser story adapted and it seems like the Leo special will be very similar to the Mirage original. I wouldn't be surprised if April and the Turtles do escape NY again.

If anything it'll be a different take on familiar stories, much like the 4kids adaptions of the Mirage material. Only unlike 4kids, IDW doesn't have to tone anything down for kids.

[ToTheNines]

I hope they don't do City at War.

[Powder]

I hope they don't do City at War.

I hope they don't do ANY of that. It would have certain perks I guess (though I can think of none) but I want original content.

[Matches Malone]

It really is tough to say this early on, but I do think it's shaping up to possibly be better (which unfortunately I can't say for those other "Ultimate Universes") than the original comics. At the same time, it's quite different, so it's not like Mirage will exactly go obsolete, will it. Mirage will always stand out as the independent phenomenon which took chances that IDW probably won't or can't take. Besides, there's no way anyone can touch Return To New York aka TMNT perfection.

However, with IDW carefully crafting this universe and paying close attention to how all the pieces fit together, it just might become a better overall series with its consistent continuity (something Mirage lost sight of unfortunately 11 issues in), quality art and writing. If in the end, I can look back on 50+ issues of a series that told one great TMNT story with its share of twists and turns and gritty moments, it will basically be what I've been hoping for since I was introduced to the turtles. I think once the TPBs start rolling out we'll be able to better see the "big picture" and be able to appreciate even more the direction it's going.

[CyberCubed]

IDW is definitely more streamlined. With one head writer (Tom Waltz), along with Kevin Eastman, as well as other writers such as Tristan and Brian Lynch doing the specials, it is all coming together quite nicely.

The Mirage series had absolutely no direction after Return to New York. The IDW series won't have that problem.

And as others have said, the fact that they're taking storylines and characters from the cartoons prove that they'll never run out of material. I am still waiting for the first 4kids-centric character to show up for that matter.

[Powder]

I'm sure I'd like the series a lot more if the issues were longer. As much as the wait would kill me, I'd be better off holding out for the collected paperbacks every few months. Can't do that, though. Couldn't stand it. At least the re-reads will be better that way.

[Samhain]

I'm sure I'd like the series a lot more if the issues were longer. As much as the wait would kill me, I'd be better off holding out for the collected paperbacks every few months. Can't do that, though. Couldn't stand it. At least the re-reads will be better that way.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I love getting my comics every moth, and then the waiting and hyping up for the next issue. But it is nice after all that and read the TPB. Read all at once it just flows better. I often have to go back an issue when a new one comes out because I tend to forget some details.

[Abnormal Freak]

I voted "Worse", but that does not accurately reflect my views. Worse implies that it's bad, which it isn't at all!

To take this further, "Worse" for me implies that the thing it's being compared to is also bad. :p

Mirage all the way. IDW's shite is cool too, though.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Where's the "way too early to tell" option?:ohwell:

We're talking eight issues vs. what, 62 regular issues and the four individual turtle issues?

In comparing the beginning of IDW to the beginning of Mirage though, I do feel like we aren't getting as much story each issue compared to Mirage.

On the plus side, I've got the feeling that the human characters like April and Casey will be more interesting and more developed this time around.

[Floatingyeti]

I agree that its too early to tell but in a few years it may shape up to be better than volume one. Given that the IDW series will stick to a regular monthly schedule and not have a year of filler stories taking place out of continuity.

[Thorneyeagle]

It's agreeably to early to tell which is honestly the better product to read. I voted "Just as good". Granted I feel the option "To Soon" might be the better option.

I have to agree with the sentiment here that we need to give this version more time to cement what it wants to be. The original has the misfortune of being a major financial risk. From the little research I have done on the Mirage series they printed it and had no idea if they would get beyond 1 or even 2 issues. They crammed more into an inssue for that reason. I do believe with a financial backing equal to the IDW backoing of Today we would have gotten a much slower paced Mirage.

Just a theory. Since we have what we have and no history changing tardis wandering through the turtle verse. (would be a funny cross over...not as exciting as their original time travel method) I have to say I enjoy the IDW method. I want to savor the story and let it slowly unfold.

[Donnie]

I'll echo the statements that it's too early to tell, but so far "just as good". Been enjoying everything I'm reading, the pacing is slow and I want more TMNT in each book, but if those are my only complaints thus far we're in good shape!

And yeah, peace, love & chicken grease!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

battle the MOUSERs, fight the Foot, confront Shredder, learn about Krang, meet April, hangout with Casey, go the Northampton, travel time, go to outer space, befriend Leatherhead, etc, etc.



How can we be pretty sure all this will happen at all.

[ToTheNines]

How can we be pretty sure all this will happen at all.

Well I'm 99.9 percent sure that 7 of the 10 things I listed will happen, and the other 3 things happen in the majority of, if not all, other TMNT universes.

Plus I can tell the future. So, yeah.

[CyberCubed]

The Turtles going into outer space (or Dimension X), and traveling through time are a staple of the franchise and will obviously happen eventually. Same with Rat King and Leatherhead appearing at some point.

I'm just waiting for the usual, "The Turtles meet dinosaurs in the past" type of story that we always get.

[Spitfire]

I vote worse because it's worse. Not worse as in I like it less, worse as in I really don't like it at all. I see what they're trying to do it just isn't working for me. This weak attempt at merging the OT with the Mirage style comics is turning out as lame as I could have predicted. I also didn't appreciate the fake out with the red masks changing them to color after a few issues. Minor I know but with the writing and art not being very strong I find myself focusing on stupid things like that.

[Hermano Dyvas]

I still think we're way too early in the IDW universe to tell, we haven't even reached a sort of "status quo" yet.

Besides Old Hob they haven't encountered any of their more known enemies yet, they don't even know April yet. I really need a few more story arcs before I can decide if I like the direction in which they're going.

At the moment I am still getting surprised by things like Leo and Don's constant arguments. That means I am still not familiar enough with this version of the TMNT...

P.S. Not being a native to the us, what does the "pet bird cage liner" vote stand for?

[Matches Malone]

P.S. Not being a native to the us, what does the "pet bird cage liner" vote stand for?

It's just a colorful way of saying horribly bad. As in "it's so bad that you may as well use it to catch poop in your pet bird's cage."

[FearlessLeader]

At the moment I am still getting surprised by things like Leo and Don's constant arguments. That means I am still not familiar enough with this version of the TMNT...

Does Don in the IDW version so far remind anyone else of the 4th film version of him. Kind of a smart ass and not afraid to stand up to his brothers when they annoy him.

We see little bits of this in Mirage, in point I think of Don when he deals with the Baxter robot in later books, but it is a different way to look at him then most of the cartoon version.

[AquaParade]

The Mirage universe is like the glue of my TMNT-love.

If it wasn't there, sure I'd love the first film, and the cartoon would have a nostalgic place in my heart, but I probably wouldn't be around this forum anymore.

That being said, I think IDW kicks ass so far. The slow pace is killing me though, and we are way too soon into it for me to form an opinion on which is 'better'.
If IDW can keep its quality up and keep delivering issues as rewarding as #5, than they will have a chance at being the universe I love most, overall. At the very least, they have reinvigorated my interest in the franchise, when it needed it most. I'll say it's easily the best thing to come along since the 90's, TMNT-wise, of course.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I hope they don't do City at War.

I like 2003 City at War.

[ToTheNines]

I like 2003 City at War.

That's cool. I loved it in 2004 when I was 12/13 and hadn't actually read the Mirage version of it.

[Toby Barrett]

City at War was pretty cool. The way things are developing though, I wouldn't be surprised to see an arc similar. After all, "War is coming". :D

[Hermano Dyvas]

It's just a colorful way of saying horribly bad. As in "it's so bad that you may as well use it to catch poop in your pet bird's cage."

Heh, that's pretty funny. thanks for clearing that up.

Does Don in the IDW version so far remind anyone else of the 4th film version of him. Kind of a smart ass and not afraid to stand up to his brothers when they annoy him.

Now that you mention it that is a good comparison, though I don't know about not being afraid, he whimpered when Raph briefly threatened to punch him. :)

[AquaParade]

I think that surely they could use some elements from City at War. After all, a lot of stuff going on in that book is character-defining stuff, if you ask me.

However, I wouldn't be interested in seeing a new "city at war". It just doesn't really make sense to me.

[Matches Malone]

I guess that depends more on what you consider to be an adaptation of "City At War." If it's just a epic war taking place in New York City, I'd say there's a good chance of that, presumably involving Krang and Shredder.

However, I think what made "City At War" unique and interesting was that it was about internal factions of The Foot at war with each other. While that could still happen, I don't think that will happen anytime soon since they haven't met the Shredder yet, let alone disbanded or disillusioned their organization.

One thing I do hope they take from Mirage was that for the major story arcs (Triceraton/Federation arc, Return To New York, City At War), it never felt like things were constantly left open to continuously balloon endlessly. They told stories that had a beginning and an end. I'm sure some have expressed a similar desire of not seeing Shredder adapt a "I'll get you one day, turtles!" mentality. I hope each story has a finality and purpose to it. It's riskier, but hey, we never would have gotten "City At War" if Eastman/Laird did not have the guts to leave Shredder dead even after knowing how popular he was.

[Samhain]

we never would have gotten "City At War" if Eastman/Laird did not have the guts to leave Shredder dead even after knowing how popular he was.

One of the things that made Shredder so menacing and cool was we hardly ever saw him in Mirage. It gets really old if he just keeps coming back.

[Matches Malone]

One of the things that made Shredder so menacing and cool was we hardly ever saw him in Mirage. It gets really old if he just keeps coming back.

Agreed. That's why I said it must have been difficult to not feel the pressure to bring him back, so I applaud E&L for doing that. I also thought Karai impersonating Shredder was brilliant!

I also think what they're doing in IDW so far works really well too, which is to hint at Shredder and to feel the effects of his presence to build up when we finally do see him (which will be a rare occurrence hopefully). Encountering the Shredder should be a life-altering event!

[pihb]

I just wanted to make a comment about something that happened. I have been searching and searching for a Neca Raphael in the clamshell with the light post. I have had the other 3 turtles in clamshells for some time. I just won one on ebay and received Raph in the mail today. It reminded me of the new IDW comics. Out searching for the lost brother Raph.... and they finally found him just as they were ready to give up.


That's all.

[Redeemer]

This may be a topic for another thread, but does anyone think the Turtles will return to their grittier roots?

one can only help, but who knows......

Any way I hope they do an arc similar to city at war, but in its own way...

[Spitfire]

That's cool. I loved it in 2004 when I was 12/13 and hadn't actually read the Mirage version of it.

This was true of every comic adaption episode for me except maybe I'Monster.

[ToTheNines]

This was true of every comic adaption episode for me except maybe I'Monster.

I wholeheartedly agree that Mirage adaptions don't live up to their actual issues, but City at War, along with Sons of the Silent Age, were utterly butchered beyond the point of being watchable.

Other than I, Monster I thought all of the adaptions of the Micro-series issues were pretty darn good, as well as the very first scene of the series. That blew my mind since I had already read Vol. 1 #1 online and loved it.

Oh, and Time Travails... I never really cared for the Cerebus crossover.

[CyberCubed]

I'd love to see them adapt the Triceraton/Fugitoid story but with Krang and his army instead of the Federation.

I always felt the human Federation were very generic characters, both in the comics and 4kids cartoon. I'd love to see instead see Krang (and possible Rock Warriors) go up against the Triceraton army instead.

If we're lucky we'll see the Utroms too and see if Krang really is related to that species in any way.

[Matches Malone]

I'd love to see them adapt the Triceraton/Fugitoid story but with Krang and his army instead of the Federation.

I always felt the human Federation were very generic characters, both in the comics and 4kids cartoon. I'd love to see instead see Krang (and possible Rock Warriors) go up against the Triceraton army instead.

If we're lucky we'll see the Utroms too and see if Krang really is related to that species in any way.

Sounds like just about the perfect way to integrate Krang into a Mirage-like role in the IDW universe. Making him a rogue Utrom would also make for an interesting character among the typically peace-loving Utroms.

[Spitfire]

I wholeheartedly agree that Mirage adaptions don't live up to their actual issues, but City at War, along with Sons of the Silent Age, were utterly butchered beyond the point of being watchable.

Other than I, Monster I thought all of the adaptions of the Micro-series issues were pretty darn good, as well as the very first scene of the series. That blew my mind since I had already read Vol. 1 #1 online and loved it.

Oh, and Time Travails... I never really cared for the Cerebus crossover.
Yeah you're right not all the comic adapts are bad. A few worked better then others, like the earlier stuff mostly. Some of the episodes like People's Choice weren't bad but some of them felt too stretched out and watered down. Also made me question why they didn't adapt longer stories. When they did do a longer one they cut it down too much and basically ruined it.

Sounds like just about the perfect way to integrate Krang into a Mirage-like role in the IDW universe. Making him a rogue Utrom would also make for an interesting character among the typically peace-loving Utroms.

Or just make him Chrell.

[Redeemer]

Or just make him Chrell.

I actaully wouldnt mind a chr'll character in the series, but I still take Krang anyday over him

[Matches Malone]

Or just make him Chrell.

It has been suggested to combine the two characters and essentially the only differences (besides one being the Shredder) were that Krang was not technically an Utrom and that Ch'rell was actually a somewhat competent threat to the turtles. So if they make Krang halfway competent, he's already basically Ch'rell which is cool with me.

[Spitfire]

Chrell was clearly Krang already. My point was making Krang a rogue Utrom wouldn't exactly be an original idea. Also I think Turtles Forever made it pretty clear that the 2K3 Shredder was the most dangerous of them all.

[CyberCubed]

The point of Ch'rell is he took over the identity of Shredder and pretended to be Oroku Saki.

Krang on the other hand is the warlord of Dimension x and should stay that way. I don't want Ch'rell and Krang to be the same character.

[Venom]

Turtles Forever made it pretty clear that the 2K3 Shredder was the most dangerous of them all.

Yep, a cybernetic suit was the most dangerous version of all the Shredder mantle holders.

My opinion is that without the suit Ch'rell would eventually end up on the wrong side of someone's weapon. It just seems like he was always at his most "badassiest" when piloting a suit. Sure, he survived on the asteroid in stasis because there were no threats; he was able to kick the snot out of FW Shreder & Krang because their whole universe was shown as physically weaker than the 2k3verse.

Even though Ch'rell had allegedly killed millions, I'm sure it was all from the safety of his little hidey hole in his suit's tummy.

[FearlessLeader]

Yep, a cybernetic suit was the most dangerous version of all the Shredder mantle holders.

My opinion is that without the suit Ch'rell would eventually end up on the wrong side of someone's weapon. It just seems like he was always at his most "badassiest" when piloting a suit. Sure, he survived on the asteroid in stasis because there were no threats; he was able to kick the snot out of FW Shreder & Krang because their whole universe was shown as physically weaker than the 2k3verse.

Even though Ch'rell had allegedly killed millions, I'm sure it was all from the safety of his little hidey hole in his suit's tummy.

I always assumed not that Ch'rell was the most psychically threatening of the "Shredders" because let's face it when he tried to actually attack the Turtles in the Utrom strong hold on his own it was more comedic then scary.

I do think he might be the most ruthless of all the "Shredders" and maybe that was what they meant. He had no qualms with killing anyone that stood in his way even his adopted daughter or loyal lackeys.

[pannoni1]

I wish there was a "your mileage may vary" option. I'd say better on some aspects, and not as good on others. But it's definitely the best series since Mirage and may be better than Archie even. Given that we're older and been through a lot after many years, we can be more patient waiting for something to happen. I find this more like a syndicated series, where storylines take many years and even decades to develop, as opposed to Mirage Vol. 1 which is like a movie or mini-series where all the action happens quickly. As a result, the more issues that get released, the more enjoyable I find it to start from scratch and do a run-through The only negative is not enough pages per issue.

[Jester]

I voted "Just as good" because for all of Mirage's greatness it has it's faults, and for all of IDW's faults it has it's greatness. It is still way too early, and I'd have voted such, but I know that though there are things that frustrate me about the IDW series, I still can't hardly wait a month to pick up my next fix...er...issue.

[Venom]

I do think he might be the most ruthless of all the "Shredders" and maybe that was what they meant. He had no qualms with killing anyone that stood in his way even his adopted daughter or loyal lackeys.

Or the whole plane of existence!

I can agree with that. :nod:

[Jester]

Or the whole plane of existence!

I can agree with that. :nod:
Blame the universal constant of "The Shredder's big fat ego."

[Andrew NDB]

Also I think Turtles Forever made it pretty clear that the 2K3 Shredder was the most dangerous of them all.

While also doing nothing to argue that the 2K3 Shredder was also the most one dimensional Shredder of them all. And I don't like that a lot of people seem to equate how dangerous he is with quality of character... I mean, is Galactus the greatest villain character of all time because he eats worlds for breakfast? Of course not, that's stupid.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take 2K3 Shredder over Fred Wolf Shredder, but it's true -- he has no character arc or real dimension or personality beyond "I'm sooo evil!"

[Andrew NDB]

And about the topic and vote, I still have to reserve mine until I see the resolution of the first major story arc that includes the Turtles fighting an equivalent threat. I still feel even at #6 like we've only quasi-moved past the (expanded) origin story, so I don't feel comfortable wholly praising or damning any part of it yet.

If I had to quickly summarize my feelings so far? It's a well-written but somewhat incomplete (I suspect that aspect will be rectified in time) origin story with the promise of some kind of big, epic story arc to come that we don't have a lot of/any details about just yet. So that doesn't seem like a good enough platform to say one way or the other on the series or overall vision right now, whether weighed against Mirage or in general.

[Spitfire]

While also doing nothing to argue that the 2K3 Shredder was also the most one dimensional Shredder of them all. And I don't like that a lot of people seem to equate how dangerous he is with quality of character... I mean, is Galactus the greatest villain character of all time because he eats worlds for breakfast? Of course not, that's stupid.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take 2K3 Shredder over Fred Wolf Shredder, but it's true -- he has no character arc or real dimension or personality beyond "I'm sooo evil!"

I won't argue that. The most evil characters tend to be the one sighted ones. All he cared about was killing all turtles even if it meant his own death. One dimensional certainly but he was willing to kill himself if it meant the turtles were dead too. That's more dangerous then anything the other Shredder's did. Except maybe Shredder doing himself in at the end of SOOT but it wasn't on that level.

[Jester]

That's more dangerous then anything the other Shredder's did. Except maybe Shredder doing himself in at the end of SOOT but it wasn't on that level.
SHREDDER!! YOU'VE GOTTA LISTEN TO REASON! YOU'LL DESTROY US ALL!

THEN SO BE IT!

Then he just kills himself...

Epic Fail.

[Leo656]

At least he got to be Kevin Nash for about 30 seconds. That's more than most people get, I'd kill for that.

[Candy Kappa]

Not really that unique of Ch'rell, Mirage Shredder had a hand grenade ready and tried to use it to wipe himself and the turtles.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Not really that unique of Ch'rell, Mirage Shredder had a hand grenade ready and tried to use it to wipe himself and the turtles.

Yeah but at that point Mirage Shredder was already dying. Ch'rell was in tip top shape. Not really a fair comparison.

He is one dimensional but he is the most dangerous Shredder, except maybe for the Tengu Shredder although I don't think the latter would kill himself just to get rid of the TMNT.

[Spitfire]

The thing about Chrell was he wasn't just content killing the turtles of his universe he had to kill them all. Even Tengu Shredder was more rational then that.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Not really that unique of Ch'rell, Mirage Shredder had a hand grenade ready and tried to use it to wipe himself and the turtles.

1987 Shredder was probably most dangerous when the Technodrome was full-powered, but it didn't happen often.

[Hermano Dyvas]

1987 Shredder was probably most dangerous when the Technodrome was full-powered, but it didn't happen often.

1987 Shredder goofy as he was was pretty cruel. In that episode with Shreeka he catches April while she is falling from the top of the new channel 6 building only to steal her ring, then he was going to drop her to fall the rest of the way down to her death. That's stone cold baby! :D

[ToTheNines]

This book's already had some sweet kills in it, the Turtle's will follow suit.

Wowwww. Ouch. This might be my worst take ever lol.

[TheLabRat]

Now, time has proven that IDW TMNT is like Dark Leo in their own story, try to act edge but are actually too cowardly to kill. Even Archie TMNT has some real dark and edge content.

[Andrew NDB]

The answer many years later now is "not well." All of my initial hopes were unfounded and I don't think any of us realized how bad it could get post-Waltz.

[nicobobinus]

Agreed, I'm selling off my IDW hardbooks and reclaiming a load of shelf space as I wade through issues 100 to 150. It's all so inconsequential. It seems like the new vol from #1 with Jason Aaron onwards will need to ramp up significantly for me to want to explore it.

[ToTheNines]

Agreed, I'm selling off my IDW hardbooks and reclaiming a load of shelf space as I wade through issues 100 to 150. It's all so inconsequential. It seems like the new vol from #1 with Jason Aaron onwards will need to ramp up significantly for me to want to explore it.

The Jason Aaron issues (#1-12) are dog sh*t. The art is nice, but it's truly one of the worst TMNT stories out there, and I've read them all.

But inconsequential? I didn't even like the Sophie run, but it is pretty frustrating to read through all of that and then watch them undo almost all of the character development from that era, but still keep it in the same continuity. I really don't understand why they didn't just reboot.

The Yang run has been an improvement so far. Not exactly my cup of tea, it doesn't make me want to barf.

[CyberCubed]

The chinese writer is setting up some very interesting mythical storylines with the Asian Gods, but if he's not going to be around much longer I wonder who is going to write it. Do we know if the chinese writer is staying on?