TMNT #12 Preview/Discussion

[TomWaltz]

Here's a nice preview of issue #12, in stores tomorrow!

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=13082


Thanks much for your continued interest and support!

Tom W.

[CyberCubed]

This issue is both a milestone and an end of an era for IDW.

This wraps up the whole first year story arc of this new continuity and represents Dan Duncan's final issue. At least IDW successfully wrapped up year one with a bang.

I can't wait for Year Two.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Of course I had to take a look, couldn't help my self. It was fantastic. I can't wait to have to full issue in hand and see how everything breaks down. Tomorrow is a doulbe treat with this and the Casey book.

Tom thank you for these awesome previews and issues.

[Zulithe]

I don't want to spoil myself, but I took a peak! Can't wait to read it

[Cowabunga Carl]

My question is will we get how Shredder is still around in this issue or are we going to have to wait tell the mini-series?

[Lampy]

looked through all the pages... not the dialogue. That last page is just epic... "its about to go down!" Man am I super excited for this issue. Not to mention the Casey issue is released the same day. Its going to be one shell of a fight no doubt. The fight we've all been waiting for.

[Master Splinter]

looked through all the pages... not the dialogue. That last page is just epic... "its about to go down!" Man am I super excited for this issue. Not to mention the Casey issue is released the same day. Its going to be one shell of a fight no doubt. The fight we've all been waiting for.

AHH! This is the last Duncan issue! I will have to wait until tomorrow to even take a peek.

-ms

[Matches Malone]

My question is will we get how Shredder is still around in this issue or are we going to have to wait tell the mini-series?

I'm guessing there would be no need for the mini series if they spilled the beans here. Maybe we'll get a hint though!

[Cowabunga Carl]

Yeah, that is more of what I meant. Will we see some kind of illumination, a hint if you will, about what is going on? I mean it is a pretty big deal and to leave us in the shadows tell later in the year just seems cruel.

[Genesis]

Now, that's how you do a rescue.

[Lampy]

Now, that's how you do a rescue.

Yup... wait til the last possible second to stop an execution when all hope is lost, use a baddie for a test dummy, throw in some kind of witty line and drop in Batman style to the rescue. Badass indeed, Turtles.

[DarkLightDragon]

^Indeed. The Turtles certainly exel at making dramatic rescues.

It almost reminds me way back in #4 when they came to rescue Raph when Hob came close to killing him.

[Matches Malone]

Yeah, that is more of what I meant. Will we see some kind of illumination, a hint if you will, about what is going on? I mean it is a pretty big deal and to leave us in the shadows tell later in the year just seems cruel.

I think I vaguely recall Bobby or Tom mentioning that they will be exploring Shredder's survival a little bit in the next few issues, but I don't know if that was changed because of the mini series. I'm sure, at the least, the turtles will be thinking about it!

[Mutant_Hero_Turtle95]

Im gonna miss Dan Duncans art:tsad:. And this issues gonna be great! cant wait to get this and the casey issue!

[Raven]

Has it really been a year already since issue 1 came out? Wow, the time surely did fly by didn't it? Tom and the guys have really kept us talking about this series, and this looks just as good as the rest!

[AquaParade]

You guys really think Duncan has been improving over the past year? I loved his earlier stuff, but the last few issues have reeked, in my opinion. I miss background's and turtles/humans that don't look oddly shaped.

[CyberCubed]

You guys really think Duncan has been improving over the past year? I loved his earlier stuff, but the last few issues have reeked, in my opinion. I miss background's and turtles/humans that don't look oddly shaped.

I like his art in this issue very well and the last few. Either way its not really worth complaining about anymore given this is his final issue forever.

[AquaParade]

I like his art in this issue very well and the last few. Either way its not really worth complaining about anymore given this is his final issue forever.

Well you are definitely not alone. I guess I am of the minority here. I do adore some of his earlier stuff though. I get the impression he was trying harder. The splash page in issue 1 along with the first few covers, were great! They had grit, weight, and style.

I for one am glad to see him go at this point. Excited to see what Khun can really do.

[darthsmozers]

I like the homage cover :D

[Genesis]

You guys really think Duncan has been improving over the past year? I loved his earlier stuff, but the last few issues have reeked, in my opinion. I miss background's and turtles/humans that don't look oddly shaped.Yeah, his Turtle heads look really "squeezed" and lumpy, all of a sudden.
I for one am glad to see [Duncan] go at this point. Excited to see what Khun can really do.He just needs to lay off on the excessively toothy expressions, and I think he'll do great.

[Lampy]

You guys really think Duncan has been improving over the past year? I loved his earlier stuff, but the last few issues have reeked, in my opinion. I miss background's and turtles/humans that don't look oddly shaped.

his earlier Turtles were awesome... er. But his overall art did improve. And I liked the past few issues and I'm sad to see him go.

[Cowabunga Carl]

So excited for today. But my comic shop doesn't open tell 11 :-/ and I'm in class. So I'll have to wait tell about 2ish. The wait is going to kill me. lol

[DarkLightDragon]

Woah. This issue was great. Duncan, you went out with a bang with this issue.


-Raph and Casey vs Alopex and Leo vs Karai were good.
-Angel actually joins in the fight.
-Leo gets some payback from his defeat back in his Micro issue.
-Stockman tells Hob he's fired right before killing him.
-But apparently, things won't be very swell with him since he gets sedated and Kraang mentions "Plan B."
-April and a very weak Splinter reunite and April is thankful to him for saving her life.

[Andrew NDB]

I read this a few days ago. I was really disappointed.

It's unsatisfying on several levels and with the issue being representative of the height of the "ninja action" in IDW TMNT, then it's pretty clear the bar is only set toe-high (and yes, I realize that is the fault of no one at IDW).

[Cowabunga Carl]

Old Hob can't be dead! Come on Tom you just started using him, make him like a gang leader of evil mutants or something.

This issue was good and it brings a close to the first year nicely. It feels like there is a complete story now. However it just doesn't feel as satisfactory as it should I guess. I'm not sure why either. Regardless it was a nice ending to the first meeting with Shredder.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think we've seen the last of him at all.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I don't honestly either, but I had to make a comment about it.

[ToTheNines]

Man, I remember driving to the comic shop to pick up #1 so vividly and now we have a whole years worth of issues, plus micros and other goodies. Weird.

Anyways, good read. Nothing too shocking outside of Old Hob being "fired". The battle between Shredder and Splinter was pretty epic, and it was pretty cool once the turtles jumped in. I definitely enjoyed the call backs to Vol. 1 #1 when the turtles engaged Saki. And Leo's banter while he knocked out Karai was really cool, totally got a smirk out of me. And the April/Splinter thing at the end was totally sweet

Complaints: Not a fan of the Purple Dragons just yet, and I don't think I like where this Angel business is going.

Kinda felt like Splinter was being a drama queen :P I know he had a rough night, but he hadn't really received any devastating blows that I noticed. His fight with all those Foot goons should have made it look more difficult on him. Other than the MOUSERs dropping the roof on him, he wasn't even really touched until he started tangling with Shredder was he?

And the exchange between Leo and Shredder was... I don't even know. First of all, why was Shredder running around without his armor in the Leo micro. I know they didn't want to reveal him outside of the main book, but still. And Shredder saying "Yes. You have not forgotten."? Well no sh*t Oroku Sherlock, it was like 5 ****ing hours ago.

This brings me to my main critique of the whole first year: pacing, pacing, pacing. I love this book to death, I really do. But just to demonstrate what I'm talking about, remember Woody the pizza guy? Barely? That's because he was in the February issue, and yet Raphael just met him maybe 12 hours ago.

That's 8 issues all taking place in the same day. Not that I haven't enjoyed the ride, but I'm ready to get movin! However, the book is selling very well and I'm thoroughly hooked, so I'll just shut up now lol.

[TonySiegel]

This issue was cool, I'm actually relieved that this arc is finally over with. I agree with those complaining about the pacing, but also wouldn't want the creators to rush through the arcs either. I just havnt felt any emotional jabs lately, probably since the brothers and Splinter reunited at the beginning of the series.

Hopefully the 2nd year run of this series elevates the status that they should be able to achieve. More epicness, more emotion, more deep issues into the psyches of the characters, etc.

[3/5 for this issue]

[Matches Malone]

This issue was not bad, but not as satisfying a conclusion as the first story arc (#4). The highlights of the issue was seeing Old Hob's "firing," Krang's "Plan B" tease, and April's reunion with Splinter, but I couldn't help but feel the stakes were so low in this face off with the Shredder. All we learn by the end is that when the turtles fought together, they had him on the ropes, if not for Splinter's condition. Not the most suspenseful first encounter. I'm okay with knowing that Waltz does not want to waste such a good character by killing him off too soon, but it has to have meaning if you keep him alive... The writing is competently done, but with the decision to go with multi issue arcs, it's very important to make sure the payoff is worth the wait. I know it sounds like I'm being harsh, but it's only because this series has so much potential, and when it's on, it is really on. Every Micro-Series issue has been awesome, so I know IDW's got it in them. The ongoing has been a little more inconsistent, but as I've said before, I love the scope of its vision. Here's to year #2 going big and not looking back!

[corvus]

I like the fact that Shredder can't take all four turtles on his own. Now it makes sense for him to create more mutants. I think two thugs are gonna get their wish.

[Matches Malone]

I'm perfectly OK with the turtles being able to take down the Shredder as a team. I'm perfectly OK if they aren't. What I'm looking for is a story that has weight and consequence. I know writing is tough, so I hope this comes off as constructive criticism and not ungrateful whining. I like the idea of him resorting to mutants, but he should also be a forceful threat in his own right.

It's a delicate balance because we don't want characters to have things too easy or too tough, or things become too predictable. For the build up of the Shredder, their archenemy and ultimate baddie (4 issues, 8 if you start from his introduction in Splinter's backstory in #5), getting your ass kicked in a few pages doesn't exactly feel like it lived up to the suspense. Hopefully the Shredder can find a way to terrorize our heroes in proper order this coming year!

[Donnie]

Great issue, I thought. I liked how it showed that Shredder was not invincible as he himself would like to think. I would agree that the battle looked a tad sloppy, but that's my only real critique with the issue.

I'm not sure how I feel about Stockman "firing" Hob, although I'm definitely interested to see what Krang has in store for Stockman.

[CyberCubed]

This issue was pretty enjoyable I'll say. I'll post my full thoughts later but I thought it wrapped up this long story arc nicely.

[TomWaltz]

I'm perfectly OK with the turtles being able to take down the Shredder as a team. I'm perfectly OK if they aren't. What I'm looking for is a story that has weight and consequence. I know writing is tough, so I hope this comes off as constructive criticism and not ungrateful whining. I like the idea of him resorting to mutants, but he should also be a forceful threat in his own right.

It's a delicate balance because we don't want characters to have things too easy or too tough, or things become too predictable. For the build up of the Shredder, their archenemy and ultimate baddie (4 issues, 8 if you start from his introduction in Splinter's backstory in #5), getting your ass kicked in a few pages doesn't exactly feel like it lived up to the suspense. Hopefully the Shredder can find a way to terrorize our heroes in proper order this coming year!

Well, you never know what crazy plan Shredder's got hidden up his sleeves. All I'll say is, there are a few clues in issue #12 during the fight.

Look for answers in the next few issues...

See you then!

Tom W.

[FoxZerro]

There were two great moments in this.

Moment One: When Leo was fighting Karai and said its his other brother that loves numbers, he believes in miracle. It was such a powerful statement and it made me not hate Leonardo for the first time in a long time.

Moment Two:
When Leo revisited the whole "I am unimpressed" bit from his Micro it was perfect. In fact everything Leo had to say to the Shredder was pretty Bad Ass.


That being said on the whole it was a pretty good issue. I liked how a lot of the threads linked together and it was a great pay off for those who have been reading each months. The ninja action I agree was a bit disappointing it just wasn't on the same level as the characterization of each turtle. The narrative definitely felt stronger than the art of the fight scene. I hope in year two they can begin to better balance this out.

My biggest problem was with them just leaving things unresolved. I know its an ongoing book and you don't necessarily want to "Spiderman" yourself by doing away with villians at the end of each major arc. Yet having the TMNT leave their enemy wounded by using their sharp wit instead of their weaponry. Just feels wrong. Splinter had already accepted that Saki had to die so for him not to convey that to his sons even in all the confusion seems... off

Final thought I'm glad that we finally revisited the Baxter/Krang/Hob storyline after 4 issues. I can't wait to see where things go from here. However

Ever since Hob was shot I have had that stupid song "Poor Jud is Dead" from Oklahoma in my head... Seriously just on repeat Old Hob is Dead with a slow melodic rhythm behind it. Maybe a parody is in order to quell the beast

[ToTheNines]

Splinter had already accepted that Saki had to die so for him not to convey that to his sons even in all the confusion seems... off

I thought that was a massive missed opportunity. No need to actually end Shredder this issue, but Splinter telling them to forget the peaceful BS and kill Shredder would have been awesome, and a shocking moment for the guys. And the rest of the issue could have played out exactly the same as it did, since it would make sense to just book it after they successfully extracted Splinter.

I guess they plan to make a big deal out of it in the next arc.

[Donnie]

I guess they plan to make a big deal out of it in the next arc.


Let's hope. I also thought it was odd that Splinter was too weary to inform his sons to kill Saki.

[Matches Malone]

Actually, I interpreted the Splinter micro as him taking on this burden himself so that the turtles would not have to dirty their hands. It would certainly be interesting to see the turtles react to Splinter straying from their "path of peace" for their sakes.

[Venom]

Splinter telling them to forget the peaceful BS and kill Shredder would have been awesome, and a shocking moment for the guys.

I'll have to re-read the issue tonight, but last night during my original read-through I had the impression that while initially Mike was on the defensive to protect Don helping Splinter, Raph was on the offensive against Saki and Leo was definitely going for killing blows because his brothers' and father's lives were on the line.

Also, nice homages to the original Shredder fight in #1. :twink:

[Slade]

I'm not sure what I think of this issue. It had good moments, but others that just felt like there should have been more.

But what's the deal with Shredder already having fought Leo out of his armor and the way he asked if he remembered? Was he supposed to be thinking of the fight from..what..hours earlier? Or is there more to it?

[Slap-Happy]

But what's the deal with Shredder already having fought Leo out of his armor and the way he asked if he remembered? Was he supposed to be thinking of the fight from..what..hours earlier? Or is there more to it?
Perhaps the Shredder armor is more of a ceremonial thing.

[Powder]

Best part of the issue-

*Ninja star thrown right next to Shredders face*

"I'm unimpressed"

I HNNGGG'D

Great issue. GREAT.

[corvus]

He probably doesn't wear his armour when he's out and about doing ninja stuff.

[Andrew NDB]

I dunno... I think this might have been a better time and place for Shredder to really kick the crap out of all of the Turtles and send them back to the drawing board on honing their ninja skills. Dismantling the Shredder and blowing through his Foot in their first story arc doesn't seem right to me at all if the whole purpose is to introduce and establish them as badass villains.

And I'm still not buying that the Turtles' skillset and skill levels are at where they are now. They've only received a solid year of training from Splinter, the rest of it all grandfathered in from different lives that they don't even really remember (and even then, only for a few years as children)... and yet they're able to whup on grown-ass adult Foot soldiers who've trained their whole lives in what seems like a pretty relentless ninja clan that doesn't screw around? Karai? Shredder himself? I'm just not seeing it.

[Matches Malone]

I dunno... I think this might have been a better time and place for Shredder to really kick the crap out of all of the Turtles and send them back to the drawing board on honing their ninja skills. Dismantling the Shredder and blowing through his Foot in their first story arc doesn't seem right to me at all if the whole purpose is to introduce and establish them as badass villains.

I'm more or less in agreement that that would have probably been a better conclusion to the arc. To be fair, Shredder not only got his ass beat in Mirage, but was killed in the process in his first fight with the turtles. Winning or losing to the turtles is not terribly important to me; it was more of the execution in this issue that felt a little underwhelming.


And I'm still not buying that the Turtles' skillset and skill levels are at where they are now. They've only received a solid year of training from Splinter, the rest of it all grandfathered in from different lives that they don't even really remember (and even then, only for a few years as children)... and yet they're able to whup on grown-ass adult Foot soldiers who've trained their whole lives in what seems like a pretty relentless ninja clan that doesn't screw around? Karai? Shredder himself? I'm just not seeing it.

In #5, Splinter states that they trained for "11 seasons," which is presumably 11 years, so it was more than just a few years. Still, I agree that this aspect of the origin is way too convoluted and feels like it was added in solely to honor the "teenage" part of the TMNT title. Most of the changes in the IDW origin I actually like, or even feel is an improvement, but they should have just kept this part straight forward: train for 15 years = teenaged ninja badasses.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm more or less in agreement that that would have probably been a better conclusion to the arc. To be fair, Shredder not only got his ass beat in Mirage, but was killed in the process in his first fight with the turtles. Winning or losing to the turtles is not terribly important to me; it was more of the execution in this issue that felt a little underwhelming.

I was thinking to juxtapose my point with that example, but I didn't think I needed to. Mirage TMNT had been trained since their mutation for 15 years isolated from mankind in the sewer for the sole purpose of killing Shredder, no holds barred. I can buy that they were able to squirrel away with a victory in their first meeting, and getting rid of Shredder is excusable in #1 there because there was no intention of setting him up as a long term viable threat... not the case in IDW TMNT, this was his big introduction.

In #5, Splinter states that they trained for "11 seasons," which is presumably 11 years

Possibly, or maybe it's 2 and a half years. ;)

And either way, it's not quite apples to apples with the Mirage TMNT's training. Yoshi wasn't even training them to kill and there isn't the whole isolated from the world while they're training in darkness aspect. And no matter how proficient they were in their previous lives, beyond a line of dialogue from a few issues ago about "it's like we're re-learning stuff we already knew" or something it's made pretty clear that -- Splinter aside -- they basically don't remember squat from those lives.

My point is really, I'm OK with the Turtles not being up to par with the Mirage TMNT in ability yet. In fact, they shouldn't be, given the storyline so far. One of the things I came to look forward to seeing in IDW TMNT was gradually seeing these TMNT become that badass, as events progress. As it stands, it's like they first meet the Foot Clan and the Shredder, and magically are able to just pwn everybody... I'm not sold.

[ToTheNines]

Super Soldier Mutagen.

[Andrew NDB]

Deus ex machina.

Oh yeah. That's right, almost forgot.

[CyberCubed]

Isn't there indication the scarred Foot Soldier is going to take over the mantle of Shredder somehow? At least that's what it seemed like.

[Andrew NDB]

Isn't there indication the scarred Foot Soldier is going to take over the mantle of Shredder somehow? At least that's what it seemed like.

Something. I'm not thinking that Scar is Saki.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I think people thought that. I don't think there was anything concreate ever to say it was.

[Matches Malone]

I was thinking to juxtapose my point with that example, but I didn't think I needed to. Mirage TMNT had been trained since their mutation for 15 years isolated from mankind in the sewer for the sole purpose of killing Shredder, no holds barred. I can buy that they were able to squirrel away with a victory in their first meeting, and getting rid of Shredder is excusable in #1 there because there was no intention of setting him up as a long term viable threat... not the case in IDW TMNT, this was his big introduction.

And either way, it's not quite apples to apples with the Mirage TMNT's training. Yoshi wasn't even training them to kill and there isn't the whole isolated from the world while they're training in darkness aspect. And no matter how proficient they were in their previous lives, beyond a line of dialogue from a few issues ago about "it's like we're re-learning stuff we already knew" or something it's made pretty clear that -- Splinter aside -- they basically don't remember squat from those lives.

My point is really, I'm OK with the Turtles not being up to par with the Mirage TMNT in ability yet. In fact, they shouldn't be, given the storyline so far. One of the things I came to look forward to seeing in IDW TMNT was gradually seeing these TMNT become that badass, as events progress. As it stands, it's like they first meet the Foot Clan and the Shredder, and magically are able to just pwn everybody... I'm not sold.

Agreed; I was more stating an opinion that storywise, it doesn't really matter to me if the writer chooses to have the turtles able to defeat the Shredder in his first appearance in either version. It's just that, as you said, IDW didn't quite sell it, in my opinion.

[Venom]

train for 15 years = teenaged ninja badasses.

Mirage TMNT had been trained since their mutation for 15 years isolated from mankind in the sewer for the sole purpose of killing Shredder

Minor detail, but Mirage Turtles trained for 13 years before facing Saki.

[Andrew NDB]

Agreed; I was more stating an opinion that storywise, it doesn't really matter to me if the writer chooses to have the turtles able to defeat the Shredder in his first appearance in either version. It's just that, as you said, IDW didn't quite sell it, in my opinion.

There's ways to salvage it. I mean, the whole deal in this arc could be an elaborate extended version of what happened in the Leonardo micro. You know, just a big testing of the prowess of the Turtles and Splinter, letting them get a victory, and luring them into a false sense of security for what's to come.

Probably not, though... but I'm just trying to rationalize it in my mind.

[Matches Malone]

There's ways to salvage it. I mean, the whole deal in this arc could be an elaborate extended version of what happened in the Leonardo micro. You know, just a big testing of the prowess of the Turtles and Splinter, letting them get a victory, and luring them into a false sense of security for what's to come.

Probably not, though... but I'm just trying to rationalize it in my mind.

It's definitely possible. Waltz has pulled the wool over our eyes before! Like I've said before, there's lots of potential here, so I choose to remain positive that things will improve from here rather than worsen, but time will tell.

Minor detail, but Mirage Turtles trained for 13 years before facing Saki.

D'oh! And I'M usually the one that feels like OTHERS overlook that detail...

[TomWaltz]

It's definitely possible. Waltz has pulled the wool over our eyes before! Like I've said before, there's lots of potential here, so I choose to remain positive that things will improve from here rather than worsen, but time will tell.

A few tidbits from me (you Friendly Neighborhood Waltz). Click Spoiler button below:



The boys fought hard -- indeed, they did -- but remember, they were going up against a group of Foot Ninja who were already spanked pretty hard by a true master: Splinter (same for Alopex, who got her fox butt kicked, too, by our favorite ratman). So... combine that with the surprise element of their attack and, advantage TMNT. I'm thinking this fight would have been a lot harder for our heroes had the Foot Ninja not been tired out and wounded in the battle with Splinter. And, the TMNT had Casey's help... and ended up needing some from Angel, too. Our boys are good... but, as you will see in issues to come, this little battle does NOT make 'em bigheaded by any means. They know, more than anyone, that they've got a lot to learn yet (and Splinter sure has hell ain't gonna let 'em forget it).

Shredder was laserbeam focused on killing Splinter -- the TMNT were merely a nuisance and beneath his immediate concern... that is, until he learned something that really sparked his interest mid-fight. What was that again...? Stay tuned for more on this in issues to come!

And, though the boys came together and worked well as a team to knock Shredder down, he was definitely not out and was still a force to be reckoned with. Even hothead Raph recognized the practicality of getting the hell outta Dodge when they had the chance. (Oh, and would've Splinter given the kill order had he seen Shredder down? Too bad Splinter was out cold at that point -- we may never know. Or... will we?)

Karai -- yes, she was dispatched by Leo quite handily (though, come on, you gotta love Leo delivering a head friggin' butt to her noggin!). And, yes... this particular battle is worth remembering... as future issues willl reveal.



We have plans... oh, so many plans...

Stick around, my friends, and find out!

:tgrin:

Thanks!

Tom W.

[TheFallen]

A few tidbits from me (you Friendly Neighborhood Waltz). Click Spoiler button below:



The boys fought hard -- indeed, they did -- but remember, they were going up against a group of Foot Ninja who were already spanked pretty hard by a true master: Splinter (same for Alopex, who got her fox butt kicked, too, by our favorite ratman). So... combine that with the surprise element of their attack and, advantage TMNT. I'm thinking this fight would have been a lot harder for our heroes had the Foot Ninja not been tired out and wounded in the battle with Splinter. And, the TMNT had Casey's help... and ended up needing some from Angel, too. Our boys are good... but, as you will see in issues to come, this little battle does NOT make 'em bigheaded by any means. They know, more than anyone, that they've got a lot to learn yet (and Splinter sure has hell ain't gonna let 'em forget it).

Shredder was laserbeam focused on killing Splinter -- the TMNT were merely a nuisance and beneath his immediate concern... that is, until he learned something that really sparked his interest mid-fight. What was that again...? Stay tuned for more on this in issues to come!

And, though the boys came together and worked well as a team to knock Shredder down, he was definitely not out and was still a force to be reckoned with. Even hothead Raph recognized the practicality of getting the hell outta Dodge when they had the chance. (Oh, and would've Splinter given the kill order had he seen Shredder down? Too bad Splinter was out cold at that point -- we may never know. Or... will we?)

Karai -- yes, she was dispatched by Leo quite handily (though, come on, you gotta love Leo delivering a head friggin' butt to her noggin!). And, yes... this particular battle is worth remembering... as future issues willl reveal.



We have plans... oh, so many plans...

Stick around, my friends, and find out!

:tgrin:

Thanks!

Tom W.

I absolutely love what you have done so far over these past 12 issues, not forgetting the micro series.

I am goin to re-read all series' in one hit once I get a chance but this has become one of my favourite TMNT eras and I hope to see a lot more.

[ToTheNines]

Shredder was laserbeam focused on killing Splinter -- the TMNT were merely a nuisance and beneath his immediate concern... that is, until he learned something that really sparked his interest mid-fight.

He heard them calling him father.

[Matches Malone]

A few tidbits from me (you Friendly Neighborhood Waltz). Click Spoiler button below:



The boys fought hard -- indeed, they did -- but remember, they were going up against a group of Foot Ninja who were already spanked pretty hard by a true master: Splinter (same for Alopex, who got her fox butt kicked, too, by our favorite ratman). So... combine that with the surprise element of their attack and, advantage TMNT. I'm thinking this fight would have been a lot harder for our heroes had the Foot Ninja not been tired out and wounded in the battle with Splinter. And, the TMNT had Casey's help... and ended up needing some from Angel, too. Our boys are good... but, as you will see in issues to come, this little battle does NOT make 'em bigheaded by any means. They know, more than anyone, that they've got a lot to learn yet (and Splinter sure has hell ain't gonna let 'em forget it).

Shredder was laserbeam focused on killing Splinter -- the TMNT were merely a nuisance and beneath his immediate concern... that is, until he learned something that really sparked his interest mid-fight. What was that again...? Stay tuned for more on this in issues to come!

And, though the boys came together and worked well as a team to knock Shredder down, he was definitely not out and was still a force to be reckoned with. Even hothead Raph recognized the practicality of getting the hell outta Dodge when they had the chance. (Oh, and would've Splinter given the kill order had he seen Shredder down? Too bad Splinter was out cold at that point -- we may never know. Or... will we?)

Karai -- yes, she was dispatched by Leo quite handily (though, come on, you gotta love Leo delivering a head friggin' butt to her noggin!). And, yes... this particular battle is worth remembering... as future issues willl reveal.



We have plans... oh, so many plans...

Stick around, my friends, and find out!

:tgrin:

Thanks!

Tom W.

Thanks for chiming in, Tom! Those are all good things to take into consideration. It's hard for me to place specifically what it was that made me feel a little underwhelmed in this issue, but I think it was the fact that all the events of the past 7 issues felt pretty crammed into 48 hours (thus considering all of your points above). Therefore, with events transpiring at such a rapid pace, it isn't quite so satisfying to arrive at the climax only to escape. Plus I think, to be honest, some of the art simply didn't click for the battle with Shredder. Still, I'm in it for the long haul and am definitely looking forward to seeing what happens next! Just be sure not to make us wait too long for that payoff! :)

[Andrew NDB]

And, the TMNT had Casey's help...

Though at this point in his "career" wouldn't he kind of be more of a liability in a room full of fully trained ninjas than an asset? If I were the TMNT, I'd have to keep looking over my shoulder and making sure he's OK.

This isn't the guy who used to be a bouncer at Torchy's who once would "throw out guys ten times your size!" (talking to the Shredder). This is a younger guy, practically a kid, whose only fighting and training experience is the short few days/weeks he's spent hanging with Raph and occasionally the others.

[TomWaltz]

Though at this point in his "career" wouldn't he kind of be more of a liability in a room full of fully trained ninjas than an asset? If I were the TMNT, I'd have to keep looking over my shoulder and making sure he's OK.

This isn't the guy who used to be a bouncer at Torchy's who once would "throw out guys ten times your size!" (talking to the Shredder). This is a younger guy, practically a kid.

Oh, I totally agree, Andrew -- BUT, he was still a helpful body in the fight, yet was also the first one out the window (alongside Angel) -- our Casey is tough, but he ain't no dummy. He was doing okay against some tired and beaten Foot soldiers, but he knew the best bet for all of them was to get in and out of the mess: "Yo, Turtles! We're outta here!"

And... the TMNT (particularly Raph) are protective of Casey... that will become much more clearer as the ongoing continues.

[Candy Kappa]

Casey should get a bouncer job on the side in this version.

[corvus]

He's a fantastic hockey player, hockey is a violent sport. He can take a beating like a pro. He's more than helpful.

[Venom]

Still hope Casey cracks from the mental stresses of his abuse and goes psycho on a criminal.

[ToTheNines]

He's a fantastic hockey player, hockey is a violent sport. He can take a beating like a pro. He's more than helpful.

Let's not push it. Daniel Carcillo may be a good hockey player and a brawler, but he'd get slaughtered by a ninja.

[BentonGrey]

I'm super excited! I just wanted to let Tom and the others know that I'm still really loving this book and talking it up to everyone I can. Thanks for keeping up the great work!

[Andrew NDB]

Let's not push it. Daniel Carcillo may be a good hockey player and a brawler, but he'd get slaughtered by a ninja.

Exactly.

Now, I don't want to be Debbie Downer about all of this and I know there's precedent even in the source material for Casey to be jumping into crazy situations and whupping asses that outclass him inexplicably (though again, at least there's a little bit of loose backstory to play with for that Casey to somewhat explain the hows and whys moderately)... but for this particular Casey, without a hell of a lot more training and care I'm not sure why the Turtles would want him with them when diving into a room with lifelong-trained killer ninjas, especially when for all rights they themselves should be cut to ribbons fairly quickly. Unless Shredder just teaches his Foot Clan origami instead of proper ninjitsu and fighting... which is fine, but at the end of the day we're supposed to come out of this going, "The Shredder and his Foot Clan are the real ****in' deal, they're badass super ninjas... those Turtles better watch out for them in the future," right? Isn't that the goal? I'm not left with that at all. I'm sure there's surprises to come, but until then all I'm left with is, "Wow, apparently the Turtles on their maiden voyage can cut through them like butter. I hope the next threat is more serious than them," you know? I don't feel like that's what TPTB were going for at all, though I can appreciate that they were approaching #12 and all like the endcap of a larger arc and were looking for a sort of heroically satisfying finish... it just sucks that it comes at the expense of the pretty important group of villains they were trying to draw back the curtain on and debut.

I'd be a lot more apt to see (or at least avoid) this sort of thing happen in one of the children's cartoons than something we're actually supposed to take somewhat seriously.

[FoxZerro]

I feel like Casey isn't there because they asked him to be, he is there because in this series he is part of that family so kidnapping Splinter is a slight against him as well. I would classify all of the Turtles and Casey as amateurs at this point in time, with the fact that they work well as a team and can rely on and trust one another being the reason they can compete in the big leagues.

Still excellent points made Andrew, especially about the Foot not really feeling like a threat in this first major outing. Yes it has been explicitly stated that they only won because of Splinter having wounded and tired them out for them, but even with the fast pace of the last couple of issues it doesn't really come across that way.

The turtles show up and if the Foot were these great ninjitsu masters and tired then the logical thing for them to do would be to retreat. "Ninja Vanish" anyone? If we are supposed to feel that they were already exhausted and beaten then why would they take on the threat of 5 new rested combatants. Yes it is their headquarters but Angel made the point of saying that it was just one of them throughout the city. I don't know I feel like one of the things of Ninjitsu is having the knowledge of when it is time to leave. The Foot should have been the one's retreating not the Turtles. Based upon what we saw they had plenty of extra energy to go around and there opponents were on the ropes. Ninjas take advantage of an opponent being beaten. They don't shake hands, say "nice game," and wait until next time. Had the tables been turned I would believe that the Foot would have taken the kill shot.

Still this is a new medium so we have to expect some changes will be made. The difficult part of accepting these changes here as opposed to in the films or the tv show is that this is another comic book and will be read and held against the comics that came before it. Its a shame, because a lot of the IDW book is great they have made it their own and are clearly having a good time with these characters.

[TomWaltz]

The turtles show up and if the Foot were these great ninjitsu masters and tired then the logical thing for them to do would be to retreat. "Ninja Vanish" anyone? If we are supposed to feel that they were already exhausted and beaten then why would they take on the threat of 5 new rested combatants. Yes it is their headquarters but Angel made the point of saying that it was just one of them throughout the city. I don't know I feel like one of the things of Ninjitsu is having the knowledge of when it is time to leave. The Foot should have been the one's retreating not the Turtles. Based upon what we saw they had plenty of extra energy to go around and there opponents were on the ropes. Ninjas take advantage of an opponent being beaten. They don't shake hands, say "nice game," and wait until next time. Had the tables been turned I would believe that the Foot would have taken the kill shot.


Oh, I think the beaten and bruised Karai, Alopex and generic Foot soldiers were more than ready to "vanish" at that point. But... bossman wouldn't let 'em. (See attached.)

But, again, all good points, and I'm always happy that you folks care enough to analyze and critique each issue as much as you do. In the end, I'll just say that our Turtles had rest, surprise, and extreme motivation on their side -- had the Foot not been spanked (and had Shredder not been, shall we say, up to something... MWHAHAHAHA!), things might have gone differently.

As for the kill order, more on that in future issues...

Talk soon!

Tom

[Lampy]

Oh, I think the beaten and bruised Karai, Alopex and generic Foot soldiers were more than ready to "vanish" at that point. But... bossman wouldn't let 'em. (See attached.)

But, again, all good points, and I'm always happy that you folks care enough to analyze and critique each issue as much as you do. In the end, I'll just say that our Turtles had rest, surprise, and extreme motivation on their side -- had the Foot not been spanked (and had Shredder not been, shall we say, up to something... MWHAHAHAHA!), things might have gone differently.

As for the kill order, more on that in future issues...

Talk soon!

Tom

The Turtles are being monitored for their fighting style? :D then the Foot will follow the Turtles to where they are hiding... am i right????

[FoxZerro]

Oh, I think the beaten and bruised Karai, Alopex and generic Foot soldiers were more than ready to "vanish" at that point. But... bossman wouldn't let 'em.

I guess I had initially interpreted that as them waiting for orders from their Master as to how they should proceed. It reminded me of the scene in the first movie where Casey shows up and the fight just stops and it doesn't start up again until Tatsu says "Attack."

Again thank you for taking the time to respond to us on these boards and as always for dropping those little scraps of information for us to fight over.

[DrSpengler]

TMNT #12 reviewed at TMNT Entity. (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2012/08/tmnt-idw-12.html)

Late to the party on this one; I was in Arkansas al last week looking for an apartment.

Anyway, the issue played out to my expectations, but it was the big fight that had been building up for 12 months, so I'm not going to knock it for being all action. Duncan gave us some great stuff in his last go around and it'll be a shame to see him go.

I suppose my only grievance (I haven't read this whole thead yet to see if anyone shares it or I'm alone) is the lack of any visible injuries despite everyone getting cut up (not asking for blood and guts, just SOMETHING to show they're actually hurt) and the villains going down so easily. Shredder's a badass until the Turtles realize "Hey, teamwork!" Then he's trashed in under two pages. The big villain and he's taken out kind of like a chump. Karai and Alopex meet an even more embarassing defeat.

What I'm REALLY dying to see is more of Krang and his schemes. While I love Shredder and Foot plots, we see those all the time in every incarnation of the brand. Krang and his Rock Soldiers and intergalactic conquest are an aspect of the franchise not really dipped into in-depth since the early 90s. I've been PSYCHED for twelve months about that storyline, which has been proceeding like molassas down a spoon. I really, really want to see where that's going.

[Master Splinter]

TMNT #12 reviewed at TMNT Entity. (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2012/08/tmnt-idw-12.html)

Late to the party on this one; I was in Arkansas al last week looking for an apartment.

Anyway, the issue played out to my expectations, but it was the big fight that had been building up for 12 months, so I'm not going to knock it for being all action. Duncan gave us some great stuff in his last go around and it'll be a shame to see him go.

I suppose my only grievance (I haven't read this whole thead yet to see if anyone shares it or I'm alone) is the lack of any visible injuries despite everyone getting cut up (not asking for blood and guts, just SOMETHING to show they're actually hurt) and the villains going down so easily. Shredder's a badass until the Turtles realize "Hey, teamwork!" Then he's trashed in under two pages. The big villain and he's taken out kind of like a chump. Karai and Alopex meet an even more embarassing defeat.

What I'm REALLY dying to see is more of Krang and his schemes. While I love Shredder and Foot plots, we see those all the time in every incarnation of the brand. Krang and his Rock Soldiers and intergalactic conquest are an aspect of the franchise not really dipped into in-depth since the early 90s. I've been PSYCHED for twelve months about that storyline, which has been proceeding like molassas down a spoon. I really, really want to see where that's going.

I've been waiting for your review. Always a pleasure to read. Hope you had a nice week off.

-ms

[oldmanwinters]

Congrats to all the IDW crew on a solid Year One with the Turtles. I'm very curious to see where it all goes from here; bring on the Road to #25 ! :tlol:

[AlZarkovski]

So… the Grand Finale of the first IDW TMNT year is here. I have mixed feelings about it.

Honestly, I don’t like to read story arcs’ finales. They’re all too predictable. The whole last issue was nothing but depiction of a long fight, in which the good are victorious, and the bad are defeated. I’m interested in the story itself. The finales do not advance the plot, they just put end to it. And, as I said, they’re always predictable. As was in the case with the fourth issue of IDW TMNT (the conclusion of “Quest for Raphael” story), so it is with the most part of DC and Marvel comics. Well, I can’t say the same about the eighth issue (when the part about Mousers ended), but it was just a “formal” finale. Actually, the story ended only right now. And what do we have here? Very predictable fight with Foot Clan and Shredder, in which the Turtles win. What a surprise!

And a couple of words about realization. There are both positive and negative things. The positive ones:

1. I liked the dialogue between Shredder and Splinter during their fight. It was actually impressive. We see Shredder’s side of the story, and that gives us the new perspective, from which we can see that he’s not just a common thug, but a person with his own world view.
2. Leo’s phrase “I’m the one who believes in miracles”. After all these long arguments with Don, it sounds very nice, short and simple.
3. The reference to Leo’s micro-series and his phrase “I’m unimpressed”. This writing technique is very old, but here it fits perfectly.
4. The conclusion of Baxter Stockman/Krang/Old Hob conflict. Without unwanted sentiments and without unnecessary violence. Everything’s logical, clear and correct. Now we’re waiting for “Plan B” and Old Hob’s return.

And what about other important things? I mean the fight with Foot Clan and Shredder? There’s no dynamics and no drama, no ANYTHING. Duncan’s empty backgrounds, Waltz’s empty panels.

Well, speaking about Duncan… He should have tried better at least for the last issue. When Casey cries about ninjas being like cockroaches, and at the same time we see NO NINJAS on the background, it’s just ridiculous. Especially in comparison with the great cover art from Eastman.

But the most epic fail is the fight with Shredder. I understand that the amount of pages is limited, but when the Turtles kick Shredder’s ass just in 4 (!!!) panels, it’s just not right. And no homage to Mirage turtles’ first fight with Shredder will ever justify that. Bad. Sorry, but it's bad. :(

6.5/10 points.
PS. Looks like making Angel an adult girl instead of a child was a deliberate move. There’s going to be April-Casey-Angel love triangle, it seems.

[Killer Moth]

TMNT #12 reviewed at TMNT Entity. (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2012/08/tmnt-idw-12.html)

Late to the party on this one; I was in Arkansas al last week looking for an apartment.

What I'm REALLY dying to see is more of Krang and his schemes. While I love Shredder and Foot plots, we see those all the time in every incarnation of the brand. Krang and his Rock Soldiers and intergalactic conquest are an aspect of the franchise not really dipped into in-depth since the early 90s. I've been PSYCHED for twelve months about that storyline, which has been proceeding like molassas down a spoon. I really, really want to see where that's going.

I'm late, too, but for a different reason (you guys discussed everything, so what's left for me to say? Heh).

Anyway, agreed about being more excited about the Krang subplot, as such details haven't been truly explored in fiction for nearly 20 years, so I'm quite anxious to see them move forward, as well. And, again, this is not to say I don't want more Shredder/Foot subplot, because it also means "when are Bebop and Rocksteady in human or mutant form are going to show up?" Which is the one aspect of the first year's climax that I was surprised at -- "Apolex returned, which is fine, but where are the punks?" Oh, well, hopefully, Year Two will correct the matter.

Meanwhile, I'm insanely curious about Baxter's fate. The Baxter-Fly form is rather likely, yet Krang re-acquiring the mutagen samples and having Baxter as a potential lab rat could mean the debut of a potential Mutagen Man (or "Ruin" or whatever the character is called). That way, you still have the mutagen connection, while showing off Baxter's Mirage/2003 brain-in-a-jar status. I doubt it would ever happen, but it would be a very interesting opportunity.

As for Hob's being shot, hopefully, he will recover. Because, as weak as the character's motivations are, he has his potential, and more importantly, after a year spent on creating/using the character, "he gets shot and killed on an airfield?" On the other hand, it allowed Baxter to display some classic/practical villainy, as "you outlived your usefulness." And then, Krang pulled the same thing on him, so the cycle is complete, or soon will be.

My favorite part would be the dialogue, from Mike's "stupid evil ninjas" to Leo's "I believe in miracles" to Shredder's minor attempt of "we can rule together" with the Turtles (as per the norm with Turtle media). In a fighting scene sense, it's a toss-up between Shredder shoving his way into the fight and Leo's headbutt on Karai in a "FTW" way.

Otherwise, the review summed it up: as part of the overall arc, the issue delivers nicely. As a single issue, your mileage may vary. Either way, I'm rather pleased, so can't wait for issue 13 and the aftermath.

Not ignoring about the side debate about IDW Casey's fighting ability, but I don't know how to add to what was already said. Not yet, anyway.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Maybe when we see Hob again he'll be a cyborg????

[Eiko]

Maybe when we see Hob again he'll be a cyborg????

Maybe he will become Verminator lol.