Various things about the villains you wish were expanded upon

[CyberCubed]

Some things I've been thinking about:

- What does Shredder actually do on the business side of things? In the 4kids series we watched Saki become a spokesperson for NYC, work with the Mayor, and ran underground dealings.

The Nick Shredder just seems to sit in his evil throne room all day. I hope we get to see more of, "Oroku Saki" without his armor on doing day to day dealings.

- The Purple Dragons seem to consist of only 3 people now that Xever is gone. They're not much of a gang at this point, I really hope to see them expand. I understand they don't want to create too many character models, but seeing these same 3 guys get beaten over and over is going to get tiring.

- Was Snake the only human to work for The Kraang?

- Where does Baxter Stockman get the technology to build the Mousers from? He got fired from the TCRI building, but what exactly did he get out of them?

- Chris Bradford was famous, does nobody notice he's missing? Will Dogpound ever show regret that he can't go back to his normal human life?


Just things I hope they address in time.

[Powder]

2k3's Saki sat in his 'evil throne room' for a while at first too, man. Give it time.

I'm sure most if not all of your questions and concerns will be addressed.

[Vivi]

Yeah, this stuff will undoubtedly be expanded upon. I'm most interested in the motivations of the Kraang at this point, and how it will link to Shredder.

[The Big Bad]

2k3's Saki sat in his 'evil throne room' for a while at first too, man. Give it time.

I'm sure most if not all of your questions and concerns will be addressed.

Yeeees... but I feel there's substantial differences in execution that shouldn't be ignored. In 2k3, every successive episode would give us additional information or would progress the storyline in some way.

1. "Things Change": Shredder first hears about the turtles. Functionally identical to the scene in Rise of the Turtles.

2. "A Better Mousetrap" / "Attack of the Mousers": We learn of the Shredder's connections to Stocktronics; Saki gets photographic evidence of the turtles' existence.

3. "Darkness at the Edge of Town": We're given hints of the Shredder's overall plans; in the end, he decides that something has to be done about the turtles. We are first told of the Shredder's "enemies".

4. "The Way of Invisibility": The Shredder sets out to determine whether the turtles are connected to his enemies; by the end of the episode, he determines that they aren't, which means it may be possible to turn them over to his side.

5. "The Shredder Strikes": The Shredder makes his offer; we get a (false) description of his enemies; the turtles fight the Shredder for the first time.

In the Nick cartoon, the Shredder plotline is basically in the same place it's been since "New Friends, Old Enemies": the Shredder still wants to eliminate Hamato Yoshi for reasons that have not been elaborated upon since then. Despite his efforts, he is no closer to achieving his goal, and we've yet to learn anything substantial about the character. While how one feels about either toon's execution is a matter of personal opinion, I don't think that one can argue that they're similar in anything but the most superficial of ways.

In any case, to answer the question, I too, would like to know more about the Shredder.

[ToTheNines]

- What does Shredder actually do on the business side of things? In the 4kids series we watched Saki become a spokesperson for NYC, work with the Mayor, and ran underground dealings.

The Nick Shredder just seems to sit in his evil throne room all day. I hope we get to see more of, "Oroku Saki" without his armor on doing day to day dealings.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't do anything "on the business side of things". It seems to me that the Foot Clan makes its money through assassination contracts, strong-arming/protecting other gangs, and burglary.

[zodiac brave]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't do anything "on the business side of things". It seems to me that the Foot Clan makes its money through assassination contracts, strong-arming/protecting other gangs, and burglary.

yep. and this is, of course, simply speculation, but i wonder if "Oruku Saki" isn't around as much as The Shredder because of the scarring on his face.

[The Stryker]

Imagine the excitement from children when they tune in to see an episode where Shredder MAKES BUSINESS DEALS! OooOOOoooOooh Buddy. I can barely contain myself.

What do you think he has for breakfast? Toast? If so, how toasted does he like it? These are all questions that must be answered.

[Blade Raider]

Imagine the excitement from children when they tune in to see an episode where Shredder MAKES BUSINESS DEALS! OooOOOoooOooh Buddy. I can barely contain myself.
After Shredder starts using robotic ninjas, the real ninjas will be sent to the accounting department to "ninja" his assets.

What do you think he has for breakfast? Toast? If so, how toasted does he like it? These are all questions that must be answered.
He had shredded wheat, duh.

[CyberCubed]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't do anything "on the business side of things". It seems to me that the Foot Clan makes its money through assassination contracts, strong-arming/protecting other gangs, and burglary.

But what does he actually do in his time off? He doesn't just sit in his evil throne room with his armor on 24/7, does he?

It worked in the original cartoon because Shredder was hilarious and lived in the Technodrome. He had nothing better to do in that show but scold Bebop/Rocksteady and work with Krang to come up with new schemes to repower the Technodrome.

However this Shredder is very serious, so its much different.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

But what does he actually do in his time off? He doesn't just sit in his evil throne room with his armor on 24/7, does he?

If I looked that badass I totally would
maybe he is like Darth Vader and just sits in his little meditation chamber becoming one with the "Force"

[Coola Yagami]

I do agree about the Bradford thing though. You can't act like he's some sort of celebrity... and then act like noone's gonna care that he's suddenly missing. A random news report of people saying 'the media is still confused as to what happened to Chris Bradford' before Leo changes it to Space Heroes would have been enough.

[Xav]

Imagine the excitement from children when they tune in to see an episode where Shredder MAKES BUSINESS DEALS! OooOOOoooOooh Buddy. I can barely contain myself.You don't a whole episode. Just a scene or two of Shredder meeting with some shady "clients".

[zodiac brave]

maybe he's not a businessman in this series...

[miru]

Maybe the Kraangs work for the Krang?

[CyberCubed]

Maybe the Kraangs work for the Krang?

Ever since the show began I've been praying for this to be true.

God I hope we see Krang show up either at the end of Season 1 or the beginning of Season 2.

[zodiac brave]

all yall people who want the ot stuff SOOO BAAAAD...why not just watch the ot?

[CyberCubed]

all yall people who want the ot stuff SOOO BAAAAD...why not just watch the ot?

Since when was it an, "OT stuff?"

Characters are not exclusive to one series. They're TMNT characters, plain and simple.

[NinjaMan]

I just assumed Shredder and the Foot Clan were a super secretive terrorist like organization.

[Ravenxl7]

Some of this I feel is inevitable, but I'll list them anyways...

-More of Splinter and Shredder's past. Especially some info on their army days.

-Explanation of whatever the Kraang have been trying to do all these years.

-Some sort of Kraang hierarchy, or at least introduce a leader Kraang. Give him a special robo-suit and some scars.

-Bradford reflecting on his past life, missing the freedoms of being human.

[Jester]

That and I'm sure he doesn't go out as Oroku Saki as much because of his HIDEOUS FACIAL SCARS!!! The mask is a bit more functional in the Nick TMNT universe. Shredder makes his money as a ninja clan leader...plain and simple.

[ToTheNines]

But what does he actually do in his time off? He doesn't just sit in his evil throne room with his armor on 24/7, does he?

Trains? Spends time with his daughter? Plays with Hachiko? Listens to Boyz 2 Men on cassette?

Ever since the show began I've been praying for this to be true.

Ever since the show began? Try early 2011 pal...

[Vivi]

I've been speculating a little on the Kraang and can't exactly come up with a solid theory for the mutagen but it's worth noting:

-They have been working on the mutagen for at least 15 years (when the turtles mutated, assuming they aged in real time), and have been present since at least Splinter was human.

-In one episode they wanted to taint the water supply with the mutagen, so it can be considered an end product, not a by product (or possibly a by product of another experiment that they have found a use for). This is a fast and efficient delivery method.

-If the intention was to get the diluted mutagen to be consumed, then there is an interest on behalf of the Kraang in the end results - which we know are mutated beings.

- And at this point I'm not sure why the Kraang wanted a bunch of mutated humans. Maybe to build an army? Subdue to them to become slaves? Or even use their bodies as hosts?

[CyberCubed]

Trains? Spends time with his daughter? Plays with Hachiko? Listens to Boyz 2 Men on cassette?

They should actually show his off-time. And I do find it odd that Shredder's, "daughter" hasn't been mentioned whatsoever since the show began. I thought it was going to be a big deal with the way Shredder's bio says he loves her, but she hasn't been seen or mentioned. Same for Splinter's daughter...who is probably the same character to be honest.

Ever since the show began? Try early 2011 pal...

I just can't see why Nick would not want to use Krang himself...I just hope they're saving him for later on.

[Jester]

yes, in a show called Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles we wanna see how Shredder spends his free time. That'll be exciting!

Again, we have the Kraang and not "the" Krang because this is a different world and not a freakin' rehash of what came before it. Again, let the Nick show use the Kraang how they want, not how YOU want.

[AnarkyLantern]

The Shredder rents japanese tv shows from HQ video in midtown.

Bradford went to an all boys high school where they all had to wear blazers.

Baxter Stockman didn't buy a pink sweater, it's just a red one faded from being washed too often and maybe from originally being dyed on the cheap.

Xever is most dangerous and unpredictable when he's at a disadvantage.

[ToTheNines]

And I do find it odd that Shredder's, "daughter" hasn't been mentioned whatsoever since the show began. I thought it was going to be a big deal with the way Shredder's bio says he loves her, but she hasn't been seen or mentioned. Same for Splinter's daughter...who is probably the same character to be honest.

Well Karai's appearing 4 episodes after the Leatherhead one, if not sooner.

I just can't see why Nick would not want to use Krang himself...

Just because you can't see why doesn't mean there's not a good reason why.

[CyberCubed]

Just because you can't see why doesn't mean there's not a good reason why.

Krang is the second most recognizable TMNT villain after the Shredder. Everyone knows who Krang is which gives Nick incentive to use him.

With no Peter Laird holding them back, there's no reason he shouldn't show up. I'm still holding out that he comes around later as the leader of the Kraang. Krang himself will of course be very intelligent and not speak the way the Kraang do.

[ToTheNines]

I wish I could slap you like Mr. Crankshaw.

[BubblyShell22]

I second that, Nines.

As for Shredder's daughter, she will show up in an episode this season, so we'll learn more about her then. I'm willing to wait for that since we get Leatherhead this Saturday, which should be good.

[NinjaMan]

I second that, Nines.

As for Shredder's daughter, she will show up in an episode this season, so we'll learn more about her then. I'm willing to wait for that since we get Leatherhead this Saturday, which should be good.

I third it. Dudes' post are annoying.

[Coola Yagami]

He kinda has a point though, so I don't see where all the hate is coming from. What DOES Shredder do when he's not Shredder?

I mean we even get to see Bradford and Xever talk a bit when Xever was buying the fish during their off time. Yes, it was plot convenience so he can touch the fish, but it was still them discussing what they're gonna do since Shredder is pissed at them. On their down time.

Out of all the characters, the Shredder does seem to be the most cartoonish. Hopefully when Karai appears we get to see her train with her 'father' or whatever. Just anything except sitting and yelling empty threats all the time.

[CyberCubed]

Out of all the characters, the Shredder does seem to be the most cartoonish. Hopefully when Karai appears we get to see her train with her 'father' or whatever. Just anything except sitting and yelling empty threats all the time.

Indeed, he's coming off as a bit too one-dimensional at this point. It was fine for the first few episodes but he really has to develop.

Even Ch'rell had a life outside of being Shredder. What they did with him in Season 3 was phenomenal.

[Coola Yagami]

Exactly. We don't mean waste half the episode of Shredder doing his day-to-day like some of you people are thinking. A real quick scene of him doing anything would help.

Does he even have Hachiko anymore? Seems like he was just there for that one scene just so that Bradford would mutate into Dogpound. I'd like to see Hachiko growl and snark at Dogpound or something.

[The Stryker]

Thing is. Nobody cares besides you two.

It's a cartoon for children. It's like wondering how the Teletubbies afford their hill house in that part of town. It doesn't matter.

[CyberCubed]

Thing is. Nobody cares besides you two.

It's a cartoon for children. It's like wondering how the Teletubbies afford their hill house in that part of town. It doesn't matter.

Being a cartoon for children doesn't mean villains have to be one-dimensional and, "I am EVIL JUST BECAUSE I'M EVIL."

See Batman: TAS, Gargoyles, etc.

The only reason it worked for the original toon was because it was a comedy and Shredder was a goofball.

[Coola Yagami]

True, but the OT had Shredder live in the Technodrome. He would basically spend his time either scheming or arguing with Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady.

Here Shredder is just walking around asking his men 'are the Turtles dead yet? did you find Yoshi yet?' every once in a while. Shredder got the awesomeness and the skill to be a threat. Now add something to flesh him out as a character.

I kinda don't understand why noone else 'cares'. Any villian from any other show would be considered boring, one-note, mustache twirling and one-dimensional, if all they did was sit and complain to his minions. How come Shredder gets a free pass?

[ToTheNines]

He doesn't. But he's only been featured in 5 episodes... So we can just use our imaginations for the time being. Bring this back up when season one is over.

Or don't :)

[Cure]

I vote for "or don't".

[CyberCubed]

This might become the most one-dimensional version of Shredder in the franchise then. Shame because the backstory has potential.

[Jester]

Gah, he's been in what 5 of the 11 episodes...simmer down. You're worse than people who think the end of the world is coming at the end of the month.

[CyberCubed]

Yes, but people say they *don't* want to see other aspects of him later on either. I want to see him walking around without his helmet on taking care of business aspects or even walking his dog.

[Coola Yagami]

Yes, but people say they *don't* want to see other aspects of him later on either. I want to see him walking around without his helmet on taking care of business aspects or even walking his dog.

....well let's not get too carried away.... We don't know if he's a business man but he must have cash if he has his own personal jet. Perhaps he is shut-in since he is ashamed to show his burn scars. Whatever the case, we have yet to see what, if anything, he will do.

[Jester]

You can't seriously wanna see Shredder taking his pooch on walkies to the park to make boom-boom? Character building is cool, but "A Day in the Life of Oroku Saki: Business Man" (if that's even part of his character) wouldn't make for good TV.

Have you stopped to think that he's a ninja master and that sticking to the shadows and letting his underlings do his bidding IS who Shredder is?

[CyberCubed]

You can't seriously wanna see Shredder taking his pooch on walkies to the park to make boom-boom? Character building is cool, but "A Day in the Life of Oroku Saki: Business Man" (if that's even part of his character) wouldn't make for good TV.

Have you stopped to think that he's a ninja master and that sticking to the shadows and letting his underlings do his bidding IS who Shredder is?

Why can't he be a Lex Luthor type of character? That's more or less what Shredder was in the 4kids series.

[Coola Yagami]

Why can't he be a Lex Luthor type of character? That's more or less what Shredder was in the 4kids series.

Let's not jump to conclusions. All we know was he was minding his own business doing.... whatever... before he found out that Yoshi was still alive, so he flew to New York to deal with this. Maybe later they'll expand on what exactly he was up to in Japan. Hopefully Karai will expand on this.

[Jester]

Why can't he be a Lex Luthor type of character? That's more or less what Shredder was in the 4kids series.
Again with the "They did it that way last time" shtick. Cubed, this is an all new Turtle universe. LET IT BE ONE!

[CyberCubed]

It is much better for Shredder to actually be developed then constantly threaten people but never actually doing anything to them in his evil throne room.

I'd almost prefer a more comedic Shredder since the Nick show is a half comedy.

[zodiac brave]

It is much better for Shredder to actually be developed then constantly threaten people but never actually doing anything to them in his evil throne room.


then give him TIME to develop!

[Jester]

Exactly. He's been in a little over half of the last 11 episodes. and in those, he's had probably about 1 episodes worth of real screen time. A minute here, a couple more there. The Gauntlet was the episode where he had the most screen time. And don't forget SPLINTER is part of the story, and he ain't spilt the beans about their shared back story, either.

[CyberCubed]

Hopefully it happens then. As I said, the OT got away with this because Shredder was a goofball and him and Krang would constantly sling insults toward each other and try to come up with new schemes to repower the Technodrome in every episode.

The way that show was written allowed that concept to be accepted, because it wasn't a serious cartoon and the characters made fun of themselves.

Here Shredder is just super-serious and barks orders with Dogpound being as obedient as Hun was.

[Cure]

You can't seriously wanna see Shredder taking his pooch on walkies to the park to make boom-boom?

I have to say, that made me laugh.

[Avatar Yuffie]

I have to say, that made me laugh.

Made me laugh. Good one.

Maybe the reason we don't get to see much of the Shredder because the show's more focused on the Kraang and their shenanigans? (he's also doing the searching for Splinter thing wrong. He doesn't seem to realize yet that the Turtles are more invested with the Kraang's activities).

What we know of Shredder so far is that he's in charge of the criminal underground (which is big, since he can operate in NYC even though he was originally stationed in Japan), has a pet dog, and was Splinter's best friend/war buddy, has now two mutants and a mad scientist in his employ. Not bad for 11 episodes.

[ToTheNines]

Hopefully it happens then. As I said, the OT got away with this because Shredder was a goofball and him and Krang would constantly sling insults toward each other and try to come up with new schemes to repower the Technodrome in every episode.

The way that show was written allowed that concept to be accepted, because it wasn't a serious cartoon and the characters made fun of themselves.

Here Shredder is just super-serious and barks orders with Dogpound being as obedient as Hun was.

Stop repeating yourself. Stop repeating yourself.

Stop repeating yourself.

[The Big Bad]

then give him TIME to develop!

Time is the one thing they have had, though--in spades. They just don't seem to have any interest in doing anything regarding this. In other words, what purpose does continuing to play the same note serve?

Character building is cool, but "A Day in the Life of Oroku Saki: Business Man" (if that's even part of his character) wouldn't make for good TV.

Why not? The Sopranos and Adventure Time With Finn & Jake and Mad Men do it all the time. A good creator can make anything interesting. They don't have to do that, specifically if they don't want to, but even sitting around can be made far more interesting and useful than it currently is.

Have you stopped to think that he's a ninja master and that sticking to the shadows and letting his underlings do his bidding IS who Shredder is?

Maybe so, but it raises the question: why is it him we're following?

[Avatar Yuffie]

Maybe so, but it raises the question: why is it him we're following?

Because he's the Turtles' archenemy. Or more specifically in this version, Splinter.

Unless Splinter steps up, I don't think the Shredder will be active.

[BubblyShell22]

You also have to remember that there are currently two plots going on in this show. The first is with the Kraang and the second is with Shredder. I find it hilarious that you guys want to see what Shredder does during his downtime, but you're not at all concerned about the Kraang and what they do. The thing is, it really isn't important to the plot. Speculating for now is fun because then we get to see if we're right or wrong when things are revealed. I could care less what Shredder does on his downtime right now because it isn't essential to the plot yet.

Give it time, it'll come.

[Blade Raider]

You also have to remember that there are currently two plots going on in this show. The first is with the Kraang and the second is with Shredder. I find it hilarious that you guys want to see what Shredder does during his downtime, but you're not at all concerned about the Kraang and what they do. The thing is, it really isn't important to the plot. Speculating for now is fun because then we get to see if we're right or wrong when things are revealed. I could care less what Shredder does on his downtime right now because it isn't essential to the plot yet.

Give it time, it'll come.
Are you kidding? I want to see four Kraangs sitting around playing poker. :trazz:

[zodiac brave]

Time is the one thing they have had, though--in spades. They just don't seem to have any interest in doing anything regarding this. In other words, what purpose does continuing to play the same note serve?

except, they havent had time in spades.

as mentioned hes been in a few minutes each of 5 out of only 11 episodes. the season isn't even half way over yet. and as bubbly mentioned, there are 2 ongoing plots that have to each be given their due time. not to mention smaller sub-plots. within the overall kraang stuff, theres the mutation experiments, the kidnapped scientists, april's dad...

within the shredder stuff, theres the connect between him and splinter, THEIR mutation experiments, what baxter's gonna be doing, the conflicts between the hench mutants and possibly even expanding on the underworld dealings and purple dragons.

outside of those two huge chunks of driving plot, theres the turtles ongoing training and donnie's crush and who knows what else they'll toss in.

either way...ALL that's more important than the shredder's home life. i dont care about his hobbies, i care about what's relevant to the ongoing plots and given there's the WHOLE rest of the season, i think there's plenty of time to get into THAT stuff.



Why not? The Sopranos and Adventure Time With Finn & Jake and Mad Men do it all the time. A good creator can make anything interesting. They don't have to do that, specifically if they don't want to, but even sitting around can be made far more interesting and useful than it currently is.

and good for those creators and shows, but it seems to me that YOU'RE more interested in those things than the actual writers and producers of THIS show. the nick team have already shown they're awesome at what they do and im sure that if they wanted to get into that stuff or had something meaningful to say about it, they would have already and done it well.

while TMNT can be seen as a children's franchise, i think this show is doing well to hold off on that aspect. sure, 2k3 went into it, but it was a different show, with a different tone and, honestly, it didnt always handle itself too well. i think nick knows what it wants to do and is going forward with it. will we see shredder making deals and signing contracts, maybe, maybe not. will we eventually get into what his backstory and true motivation is? YES. of course we will. we just gotta be patient.




Maybe so, but it raises the question: why is it him we're following?

because he's the friggin SHREDDER and this is a TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES cartoon.

[The Big Bad]

as mentioned hes been in a few minutes each of 5 out of only 11 episodes. the season isn't even half way over yet. and as bubbly mentioned, there are 2 ongoing plots that have to each be given their due time. not to mention smaller sub-plots. within the overall kraang stuff, theres the mutation experiments, the kidnapped scientists, april's dad...

within the shredder stuff, theres the connect between him and splinter, THEIR mutation experiments, what baxter's gonna be doing, the conflicts between the hench mutants and possibly even expanding on the underworld dealings and purple dragons.

outside of those two huge chunks of driving plot, theres the turtles ongoing training and donnie's crush and who knows what else they'll toss in.

either way...ALL that's more important than the shredder's home life. i dont care about his hobbies, i care about what's relevant to the ongoing plots and given there's the WHOLE rest of the season, i think there's plenty of time to get into THAT stuff.

You make it sound like the writers don't have control of how they plot their episodes. Resources permitting, they could have spent these 242 minutes in whichever way they wanted. If they had so wanted, there were tons of ways those could be configured in order to make the Shredder something more than "generic big bad". Instead,they've decided that stuff like Mikey's "hilarious" pranks are more important. In the end, that's their choice, but saying that they couldn't have made different ones is false.

and good for those creators and shows, but it seems to me that YOU'RE more interested in those things than the actual writers and producers of THIS show. the nick team have already shown they're awesome at what they do and im sure that if they wanted to get into that stuff or had something meaningful to say about it, they would have already and done it well.

while TMNT can be seen as a children's franchise, i think this show is doing well to hold off on that aspect. sure, 2k3 went into it, but it was a different show, with a different tone and, honestly, it didnt always handle itself too well. i think nick knows what it wants to do and is going forward with it. will we see shredder making deals and signing contracts, maybe, maybe not. will we eventually get into what his backstory and true motivation is? YES. of course we will. we just gotta be patient.

Oh, I agree: it's clear that the writers are doing what they want. That is fine, and if people enjoy it, more power to them. However, not everybody has to like it, and not everybody has to accept it. This thread was begun because somebody had issues with the way things were going. I don't see why those people have to be attacked for it.

because he's the friggin SHREDDER and this is a TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES cartoon. Which is why I think it's especially important to make him an interesting character, I'd say. You may think he is. If that is the case, I disagree--I think they've mostly failed, because he's yet to do anything to make me stand up and take notice--even his fight with the turtles I found annoyingly weightless. And personally, I think that if this is going to be the extent of the Shredder's character, then he's better off doing the Sauron thing and looming off-screen. And if there is more to him, then I'd like them to get to it at a quicker pace.

[Drose18]

I showed my friends older brother this show and asked him what he thought of the kraang. He said: (innapropro)
They are intergalactic drug dealers. They brought the mutagen with because in there dimension it gets them high but here it mutates anyone with the last animal they came in contact with. For example their dimension has reverse rules. If you bring a bag of marijuana to their dimensionn it will do what the mutagen does in our dimension. They left their dimension because the cops were on their "tail"
Wow...

[BubblyShell22]

That is hilarious. Good one.

[CyberCubed]

The last episode confirmed the Kraang came through a portal from Dimension X most likely. Looks like they're setting up the true motive of the aliens along with introducing General Traag soon.

I still wonder if Traag's ep is, "Alien Agenda" because I don't know what other Season 1 ep he might debut in.