What These Cartoons Did To Turtles

[Spitfire]

I was watching Batman: The Movie last night and it dawned on me, the 80's toon is the TMNT equivalent. See the Adam West series was so popular and wide spread it completely dwarfed the comics and changed the public perception on Batman for decades. It took Burton's film to change that and even it was taken with a heavy shot of that series. Begins was really the first serious true to source, in tone at least, Batman film. It only took over 40 years to get it.

I fear Turtles will suffer the same fate or worse will never be viewed as its source material is. This new series is a strong testament to that. I know for most this isn't an issue but it does suck for fans like myself who are tired of the pizza eating and surfer slang.

Anyways observation I found interesting. Discuss?

[Andrew NDB]

I was watching Batman: The Movie last night and it dawned on me, the 80's toon is the TMNT equivalent. See the Adam West series was so popular and wide spread it completely dwarfed the comics and changed the public perception on Batman for decades. It took Burton's film to change that and even it was taken with a heavy shot of that series. Begins was really the first serious true to source, in tone at least, Batman film. It only took over 40 years to get it.

I fear Turtles will suffer the same fate or worse will never be viewed as its source material is. This new series is a strong testament to that. I know for most this isn't an issue but it does suck for fans like myself who are tired of the pizza eating and surfer slang.

Anyways observation I found interesting. Discuss?

I've been saying this for years. Every new widespread incarnation of the TMNT that seems to pop up... it's, well, it's a bit like Groundhog Day.

Let me plagiarize myself from another thread:

Alternately, I hate to think of what might happen if this movie is a box office smash and if the story is horrific.

With things like NT:TNM, the last movie, and probably this one as well... I find it's a bit like Groundhog Day. I don't mean the Groundhog Day movie, I mean Groundhog Day itself. What am I talking about, you ask?

We all know how it works. If the groundhog emerges from its burrow and all is well, that means spring is coming early; if it emerges from its burrow, sees its shadow, and goes back into its burrow... that means winter continues for another six weeks.

With TMNT, every additional mass media incarnation -- particularly the movies -- that come out that are ghastly, kid and toy-pandering debacles... each one of these keeps signifying another 5-10 years of pop culture continuing to believe that is the definitive Ninja Turtles, when it's anything but. And the clock just keeps being reset 5-10 years on this, over and over again.

[Jester]

it's been mentioned many times before Spit. Many fans are constantly waiting with baited breath for some sort TMNT Begins media to take the Turtles back to their roots. The "FW Turtles = Adam West Batman" analogy has been used before to add to the fan hopes that we will eventually see a more serious take on the Turtles.

[Oculus Orbus]

I find this issue extremely sad. The worst part is that it seems to be somehow accumulative, as every new incarnation seems to push the source material a bit further from the public's eye. I personally think that a franchise this big could be turn into many different incarnations with no harm to its identity (just like Batman's had Batman: The Animates Series in 1992 and Batman: The Brave And The Bold in 2008), but it appears as if the FW cartoon is becoming more and more the source material for the new TMNT iterations, replacing the real one. This doesn't affect the use of characters and situations as much as it affects the overall tone of the writing, where we seem to be stucked with, as Spitfire put it, pizza eating and surfer slang.

Now, I find it easier for me to enjoy products like the Nick toon way better than the IDW run. After all, I grew up with the FW cartoon and I'm used to TMNT being a kid's show on TV, and Nickelodeon is doing a good job at that, in my opinion.

IDW, however, seems to be suffering from the same issues, and that's the worst part for me. I understand how they need to aim at a larger audience, and that has to tone down the stories somehow and utilize elements that are widely recognizable, but the way it's being done still carries the same portrayal of many characters. It's more an update of the FW cartoon than it is its own thing, and I hardly see any true trace of the source material in it.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. It's not a bad comic, it's just not the TMNT comic I expected it to be.

[Candy Kappa]

We need a TMNT equivalent to The Dark Knight Returns :P

[Andrew NDB]

Many fans are constantly waiting with baited breath for some sort TMNT Begins media to take the Turtles back to their roots.

Unfortunately any hope of that probably died with the Viacom/Nickelodeon sale. Now, even if there was a director out there passionate about the source material enough to make a proper TMNT film as a passion project (as opposed to the way every TMNT movie to date has been made, which has begun with the studio, with execs saying, "We think a TMNT movie will be profitable at this juncture... how do we proceed?") it is unlikely that Viacom/Nick would allow any kind of a raw adaptation of the source material. It wouldn't happen until if and when there's another TMNT sale.

Damn it, if only Megan Ellison was a Mirage TMNT fan...

[oldmanwinters]

But... wasn't the first live-action movie the TMNT equivalent of Batman Begins?

It certainly took the franchise back to its roots. Drawing heavily from the original comics and proving that the TMNT could be portrayed in a realistic universe.

So... I think the cavalry may have already come, so to speak. At least it has if you're the type who preaches the gospel of ad fontes and desperately awaits the Second Coming.

EDIT:
But for myself, I say pimp out the Fred Wolf elements at every opportunity. Give me my live-action Technodrome!

[Andrew NDB]

But... wasn't the first live-action movie the TMNT equivalent of Batman Begins?

No. No, it was not.

[ToTheNines]

Begins was really the first serious true to source, in tone at least, Batman film. It only took over 40 years to get it.

Mask of the Phantasm?

I know for most this isn't an issue but it does suck for fans like myself who are tired of the pizza eating and surfer slang.

Well then you're in luck. Other than making a big deal out of their first slice in the first episode, they only eat pizza casually (and enjoy other foods) and there is no surfer slang to be found in Nickelodeon's TMNT.

Damn it, if only Megan Ellison was a Mirage TMNT fan...

Unless he was lying, Jonathan Liebesman is a Mirage fan. So we'll see.

[Vivi]

I guess it comes down to how much it matters to you that the public perception sees the tmnt in the vein of the source material. Is it important that people understand so that our obsessions are validated? Or perhaps to get some real money invested in a 'true' adaption? Even if we do get the Nolan movies, they'll be just that - branches of a franchise. There are many solid branches that form the tmnt franchise, if anything it gives it strength.

[ToTheNines]

Even if we do get the Nolan movies, they'll be just that - branches of a franchise.

That's a vast understatement. Cartoons and comic books fly under the radar for the most part, theatrical films are a way bigger deal.

[CyberCubed]

If the new movie still has alien Turtles in it, its going to do far more damage than anything else will.

[Spitfire]

Mask of the Phantasm?
Not a bad point but really that film bombed and many more people saw Batman Forever and Batman and Robin which kept the public thinking Batman wasn't to be taken very seriously.



Well then you're in luck. Other than making a big deal out of their first slice in the first episode, they only eat pizza casually (and enjoy other foods) and there is no surfer slang to be found in Nickelodeon's TMNT.
No you're right. It has a new set of problems. Phrases like "Booyakasha", bad anime moments that completely break flow, and an overall spastic tone. Reminds me a bit of Ultimate Spider-man in that regard. I struggled to finish just one episode of that series and even being Turtles I kind of had the same issue with this one. It's not for me, not in the vain I'm talking about, and doing everything to keep the public perception that TMNT are goofy party animals who fight with slap stick. Not as bad as the OT in that regard but not doing any favors.


Unless he was lying, Jonathan Liebesman is a Mirage fan. So we'll see.
That talent-less hack could be the world's biggest TMNT fan with a tattoo of Eastman and Laird's autographs on his ass and it wouldn't matter. He's a terrible director and by all accounts I doubt even if they handed him a gold plated TMNT script he could do it any justice.

Yes I'm very cynical. :P

[ZariusTwo]

I've been saying this for years. Every new widespread incarnation of the TMNT that seems to pop up... it's, well, it's a bit like Groundhog Day.

Let me plagiarize myself from another thread:

Alternately, I hate to think of what might happen if this movie is a box office smash and if the story is horrific.

With things like NT:TNM, the last movie, and probably this one as well... I find it's a bit like Groundhog Day. I don't mean the Groundhog Day movie, I mean Groundhog Day itself. What am I talking about, you ask?

We all know how it works. If the groundhog emerges from its burrow and all is well, that means spring is coming early; if it emerges from its burrow, sees its shadow, and goes back into its burrow... that means winter continues for another six weeks.

With TMNT, every additional mass media incarnation -- particularly the movies -- that come out that are ghastly, kid and toy-pandering debacles... each one of these keeps signifying another 5-10 years of pop culture continuing to believe that is the definitive Ninja Turtles, when it's anything but. And the clock just keeps being reset 5-10 years on this, over and over again.

Oh sod off you complete pessimist bore. Your insistence that the franchise follow a grim and gritty no-nonsense vision boarders on pure forum spam these days. The Turtles are FAR better off being pop culture kids icons and the shows are all critically acclaimed.

You and your kind have got your comics, read them and be content, the rest of the world eats up the Turtles in their more commercially viable forms. At this rate, your stubborn negative attitude will leave you resenting the Turtles more and more, leaving very little love for them. Not the calling card of a true fan is it? But then, when have you EVER been a true fan? You like one vision and to hell with the rest, you are not broad, you are not open, and thus you are completly out of touch with how commercial enterrprises run, and out of touch with worldly perception.

Maybe you're just way too old for TMNT, ever think about that? You could do us all a favour and go away now, before I destroy you any further with an acutal concept of how the real world operates

[chrisdude]

I feel like if they keep trying to revive the turtles in new, fresh ways, they've gotta get around to a more direct adaptation eventually.

But people loved the Adam West Batman series. And people loved the Tim Burton Batman movies. Same goes for the FW cartoon and the live-action movies.

I mean, a comic adaptation would be cool to many of us, but of course that's never going to be what most people expect when they hear "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles," and giving them something different is a risk.

We're lucky we ever got The Dark Knight or The Dark Knight Rises, because Batman Begins made less money than Superman Returns (it just didn't cost as much to make). It was financially successful, but it was no smash. It turned out to be fantastic as a series, but like I said, we're lucky it even had a chance to grow.

But hey, as successful as the Nick series is, gritty and dark might still be in style. Oddly enough, The Dark Knight trilogy and the Avengers series took opposite sides of that, at the same time, and both worked...

[Shark_Blade]

I fear Turtles will suffer the same fate or worse will never be viewed as its source material is. This new series is a strong testament to that. I know for most this isn't an issue but it does suck for fans like myself who are tired of the pizza eating and surfer slang.

Anyways observation I found interesting. Discuss?The Nick toons seems to be very faithful to it's roots imo.

I like that they eat pizzas again (something lacking in the 2k3 version). And surfer slang, you mean Cowabunga (equivalent of booyakasha nowadays)?

Tired of them? Not me. That's their trademark.
And it's fun.

[ZariusTwo]

I coudnt give a rat's backside for "grim and gritty", it's a creativly bankrupt genre at the worst of times and it doesnt automatically make anything "better".

The very first issue of TMNT is objectivly terrible. It is just mindless violence with nice pictures and no plot to speak of. Turtles have never been all that interesting with the dark tone, it's a ridiculous premise to even take seriously, so why not have be all cartoonish? That's what it lends itself best to, and why every TMNT show has had a good long run. It is a complete bore when played straight. That's why the first movie blended the two worlds, the slapstick and the seriousness, together, and why the 2003 show did it's best to interject humor, it wasnt all that succesful with it, but it needed variety.

People who want "dark, dark dark" have no idea what they want in the end, they are always looking at the world through a glum lens thinking nothing light and soft can be any good, they see it as an affront to the reality they cling to, in truth they are insecure about themselves and embarrased by thier childhood innocense. The movie and 4Kids cartoon are the closest to reflecting their visions, and yet still they are not satisfied because they're not "gritty enough". They want the Turtles decapitating people, they want them sticking their katanas in people's guts, they want them swearing, they want them to be anarchists. I ask of you people...how does that make for interesting or compelling reading or enjoyable television that appeals to the masses? It's completly and totally one-note and you know it

[NinjaMan]

I love me some fun loving Turtles. the FW and Nick series are my favorites by far. And the fact that I can watch them with my 3 year old since they aren't dark and gritty is a plus. Heck, I like the Avengers movie much more than the latest Nolan Batman movie. In fact, I didn't like his last film at all.

[zodiac brave]

i think the idea of movie 1 being "batman begins" is a valid point. granted, when it was done, it was well-received but the direction the film franchise went from there was, sadly, a victim of the times. it wasn't how it is now, where nolan did the first bat-flick and the studios trusted him enough to hand him the reigns to the franchise. back then, the movie was a success and all the studio's saw were dollar signs. they were so desperate to milk the cash cow that, for fear of losing their golden goose, they ended up watering it down to try and pander to the widest audience, losing the core of what made that first movie so good. (sorry for mixing farm-animal metaphors).

[zodiac brave]

I coudnt give a rat's backside for "grim and gritty", it's a creativly bankrupt genre at the worst of times and it doesnt automatically make anything "better".

The very first issue of TMNT is objectivly terrible. It is just mindless violence with nice pictures and no plot to speak of. Turtles have never been all that interesting with the dark tone, it's a ridiculous premise to even take seriously, so why not have be all cartoonish? That's what it lends itself best to, and why every TMNT show has had a good long run. It is a complete bore when played straight. That's why the first movie blended the two worlds, the slapstick and the seriousness, together, and why the 2003 show did it's best to interject humor, it wasnt all that succesful with it, but it needed variety.

People who want "dark, dark dark" have no idea what they want in the end, they are always looking at the world through a glum lens thinking nothing light and soft can be any good, they see it as an affront to the reality they cling to, in truth they are insecure about themselves and embarrased by thier childhood innocense. The movie and 4Kids cartoon are the closest to reflecting their visions, and yet still they are not satisfied because they're not "gritty enough". They want the Turtles decapitating people, they want them sticking their katanas in people's guts, they want them swearing, they want them to be anarchists. I ask of you people...how does that make for interesting or compelling reading or enjoyable television that appeals to the masses? It's completly and totally one-note and you know it

as much as you railed against andrew's point of view (insultingly and in an incredibly immature fashion, i might add) you sound like the exact opposite of his argument. which is just as silly and hard to take seriously.

at least andrew poses his thoughts level-headedly.

[MikeandRaph87]

I don't see why the '87 cartoon has a negative/ embarassing view among some fans on the internet. It was aimed at kids and did a heck of a job. There are some silly aspects to it and like anything that interest us as kids we like to forget or blush about later on . I don't see why the black and white comics should ever dominate the Ninja Turtles property. If it did a good chuck of fans could care less about it and won't participate because the Ninja Turtles evolved beyond it. The black and white comics specifcally the early stuff should be adapted for wider appreciation just as it has wonderfully in the first film and again by adapting the comics into a cartoon. It was great because it allowed other media influence to take hold. The darker grittier stuff can only go so far and only cater to so many. I could never get behind the idea of them being murderers or Shredder and Rat King being dead for good with just random punks and mobs if not a Foot Clan without Shredder being the villains. The comics sales beyond the early Mirage are a testament to that. IDW realizes the few that actually perfer the black and white stuff if continued on as a comic would bring abysmal sales because so many of us fans could care less or just get issues here and there that interest them. I know I would be in the latter category and look for character like Shredder, Rat King, and Leatherhead to appear. The Ninja Turtles are a family friendly franchise that should cater to all ages not just a select few that like blood and guts. Adapting the other media into the comics is what should have been done ages ago. It works if allowed to and the comic is a runaway success because it is reaching to everyone not being subbornly dark and unadapting. The other media should always dominate and just nod to the black and white comics as being the first medium in which the Ninja Turtles appeared. Its been done and can be read over and over by those that want to. It does not have to be '87 cartoon influenced but I will take as much as possible since its the way I see my favorite heroes. Ignoring my bias preference its just simply other media needs to be the template for it to be successful. If some of the black and white comic influence is there its cool just should not be in the driver's seat. The Ninja Turtles should never have an overwhelming dark tone. Its just not what it is. It was intended as a one off PARODY in the first place and it evolved into the black and white comics and then from there an other media juggernaunt that introduced nearly all of us to the TMNT beginning with the '87 cartoon and then the '03 cartoon for the second generation.

[ToTheNines]

No you're right. It has a new set of problems. Phrases like "Booyakasha", bad anime moments that completely break flow, and an overall spastic tone. Reminds me a bit of Ultimate Spider-man in that regard. I struggled to finish just one episode of that series and even being Turtles I kind of had the same issue with this one. It's not for me, not in the vain I'm talking about, and doing everything to keep the public perception that TMNT are goofy party animals who fight with slap stick. Not as bad as the OT in that regard but not doing any favors.

Hm. I hate Ultimate Spider-Man too, but I love this new Turtles show and I don't see the comparison (Teen Titans yes, but not USM). Everyone's different.

However, I have to say you're wrong about "slap-stick fighting". Sometimes there's humorous moments during the fights, but not always. Have you seen "The Gauntlet"? They have a pretty intense throw down with Shredder, taking plenty cues from Vol. 1 #1.

[Coola Yagami]

Hm. I hate Ultimate Spider-Man too, but I love this new Turtles show and I don't see the comparison (Teen Titans yes, but not USM). Everyone's different.

However, I have to say you're wrong about "slap-stick fighting". Sometimes there's humorous moments during the fights, but not always. Have you seen "The Gauntlet"? They have a pretty intense throw down with Shredder, taking plenty cues from Vol. 1 #1.

I feel Spitfire won't make it to the part where the Turtles face Shredder and tune out when the talking pigeon appears.

[ToTheNines]

Pigeon Pete was pretty annoying. Still one of my favorite episodes.

[Cure]

The cartoons did the right thing.

Except for the 2003 version.

[NinjaPug]

The cartoons did the right thing.

Except for the 2003 version.

Could you expand on what you mean by this?

[CyberCubed]

The cartoons did the right thing.

Except for the 2003 version.

The 2003 version did the most right thing except for humor in terms of still being a kids show.

[Coola Yagami]

Kinda feel the 2K3 cartoon ruined any chance of there ever being a Mirage-type series. To the non-comic fan a Mirage series would look a lot like 2K3 season 1, except even more serious and with blood, and Shredder dying in the first episode. By the time they get past all the Triceraton/Return to New York stuff and finally get to City at War, most of the fans would have tuned out.

Then there would be other fans wondering when Ch'Rell and other 2K3 exclusive characters will appear. Just like some fans back then saw 'Shredder Strikes Back' and assume they were ripping off the movie using Leo instead of Raph, they'd be confused with a Mirage-type series and assume it's just ripping off the 2K3 series.

[Coola Yagami]

Pigeon Pete was pretty annoying. Still one of my favorite episodes.

yeah, I just assume Spitfire would turn off the TV during the opening act and miss out on Shredder.

[CyberCubed]

I don't think anyone was dumb enough to believe there would be blood or killing in the 4kids show. It was a Saturday morning cartoon and we all knew it.

If the 4kids series didn't do anything new and just was episode adaptions without the violence it would have been terrible. They managed to make the show truly unique and stand out among other incarnations thanks to the new ideas it presented.

[Coola Yagami]

I don't think anyone was dumb enough to believe there would be blood or killing in the 4kids show. It was a Saturday morning cartoon and we all knew it.

If the 4kids series didn't do anything new and just was episode adaptions without the violence it would have been terrible. They managed to make the show truly unique and stand out among other incarnations thanks to the new ideas it presented.

Yeah, the Mirage series is just too serious for kids to get into. Especially City at War that feature Casey Jones growing up and falling for a pregnant woman, Splinter facing he has to be the animal that he is and eat fellow rats to avoid dying of starvation and the Turtles seriously questioning their role in the whole Hamato/Saki feud WITHOUT going into the traditional 'we're doing it because it's the right thing to do' mindset. I really don't see Leo saying 'I would gladly give my life for Splinter, but I won't live my life for him' (paraphrasing) in a kid's show. It's not just oooooh blood, and oooh they kill the people! It's just the overall serious tone without bumbling bad guys or Mike doing something funny every 5 minutes.

[Cure]

Could you expand on what you mean by this?

I mean I prefer the cartoons over Mirage.

Except for the 2003 version. I only barely prefer that over Mirage.

[Jester]

The thing is, the Turtles has always, in one way or another, been a "joke" franchise. The Mirage books took the completely absurd premise of teenage mutant ninja turtles and played it completely straight. As I've said before that kinda was the joke. A serious comic book written around the most absurd of concepts. Then the FW Cartoon came along and let the Turtles be in on the joke, and we got a show that was very self-aware and constantly poked fun at the absurd aspects of its own universe. There's always some comedic edge to the Turtles. To totally remove it weakens the franchise.

[Keroscene]

I guess it comes down to how much it matters to you that the public perception sees the tmnt in the vein of the source material. Is it important that people understand so that our obsessions are validated?

My answer to that will always be "no." ZariusTwo has already said the point better than I ever could, but essentially to view the original Mirage comics as the one "true" iteration of TMNT is problematic. Because the difference between Batman and TMNT is that every decision regarding the future of the TMNT franchise has been taken by at least one of the original co-creators. Which means every cartoon, every movie and every comic related to the franchise is a valid interpretation. TMNT was not snatched out of the creators hands by a mainstream comics company, it has been managed by the people who created it. And, as someone else has already said, even the original comics series was intended as parody.

Personally, I have nothing against grim and gritty. I don't think that Mirage was actually that good at being grim and gritty, the strongest issues for me were the ones where other creators came in to try something a little different. But if you're holding out for some movie in future which is true to the source material (and you're talking about a relatively small amount of the source material here), I think you need to look at the last 25 years of this franchise and appreciate that the most successful aspects of it have owed more to the original cartoon than they have to the original comic. I'm sorry you don't like that, but look: the Mirage issues still exist. You can still read them. They haven't gone anywhere. You're not obliged to read new comics or watch new movies or new cartoons.

The one part of the TMNT/Batman comparison that rings true to me is the fact that people really enjoyed that Adam West series. Whilst it wasn't in the spirit of the comics, it didn't prevent Frank Miller and Alan Moore and Grant Morrison from writing "grim and gritty" Batman comics in the future, and it did make the iconography of Batman well known (i.e. you don't need to have seen the movies or the cartoons or comics to know that Batman has a fancy car and sometimes a sidekick called Robin, because thanks to the Adam West show, this is just something that everybody knows). Similarly with TMNT, whether there is ever a comic or movie which replicates the original Mirage comics largely depends on whether there is significant demand for one (I doubt it), but what we have now is a cartoon that appeals to a lot of people and a comic series which is somewhere between the Mirage series and the movies in terms of tone. Why that should offend fans of the original Mirage comics when it is sanctioned by creators is beyond me.

EDITED TO ADD: Obviously this post is not aimed at Vivi but at the OP and those who have expressed a similar point of view.

[Berserker]

The Mirage books took the completely absurd premise of teenage mutant ninja turtles and played it completely straight.

Modern Batman does the same thing. Guy dresses up like a bat and fights crime. Totally wacky and unbelievable.

The thing is though, Batman: Begins tried very hard to force it into the realm of believability, and they were able to do it with a combination of technological mumbo jumbo and a tight script. Everything Batman did seemed at least feasible, from your average movie-goer's point of view.

TMNT, on the other hand, can never do that. You can never make something like this any more serious than tongue-in-cheek.

[Konchadunga]

The problem with calling the 1987 show the equivalent of Adam West Batman is that the subsequent incarnations of Batman didn't operate out of contempt for the Adam West show. They brought back some stuff from it, like Mr. Freeze, Barbara Gordon as Bat Girl, etc. By contrast, Peter Laird's show jettisoned everything from Fred Wolf, to the effect that all of the fans of it wanted a backlash and got it. Like it or not, they have the same right to be reactionaries as the Mirage fans.

Now personally, I would, in fact, like an incarnation where the turtles are willing to kill when necessarily, but as Zarius said, there is nothing good about a series where everyone is just a shallow amoral assassin; playing it straight with turtles might be a nice joke for some, but it doesn't turn it into fine literature, and it's telling that the first issue was just intended as a cheap gag, but once it started selling better than anticipated, the series gained depth. That's what really made it better than the Fred Wolf series; it had character development, continuity that extended decades, and ability to tell ethical stories; getting rid of all the Fred Wolf stuff is not necessary to maintain those virtues, and nor is retaining a lot of blood, and making everyone just another assassin runs counter to it.

[Keroscene]

Also, isn't placing this thread in the "Nick TMNT Cartoon Discussion" forum unnecessarily antagonistic?

[Coola Yagami]

I don't think the Mirage Turtles were soulless assassins. Didn't they have some kind of honor? Their only victims were the Foot who were murderers as well. They didn't go around killing innocent people or bumbling super villains. Hell, they were content with just hauling Baxter off the jail in issue 2 and not outright killing him.

[CyberCubed]

A lot of people here must not read Mirage much because the turtles joke and goof around plenty in issues. Especially ones by Dan Berger, Michael Dooney and Kevin.

[Spitfire]

A lot has been said but instead of responding to it all I'll say us "boring" "pessimist" fans who truly enjoyed the comics don't have those anymore. Idw is no Mirage, not even Image. The buy out effectively ended the portions of the franchise I enjoy.

I don't want a blood bath I just want to see them written better. The turtles can be fun, soot is my favorite turtles film so clearly that's not an issue. It's the difference between a comedian and a rodeo clown to me. I don't fault the ot, its great for what it was, but it needed to evolve. This new series is not a step up. Yeah 2k3 isn't perfect either but its closer then this.

One day I may try to brave the new series again but I'll have to let the cynicism die down a bit.

[Keroscene]

One day I may try to brave the new series again but I'll have to let the cynicism die down a bit.

I don't think anyone's saying you have to like the Nick series, but posting this in this particular forum wasn't exactly the best way to avoid antagonising people.

[jestermon]

You have to realize that without the cartoon/toy line the comic would have went down into history and the idea disappeared forever.

If you ever want to see a darker gritty version you have to see the reason lighter kid friendly shows have to happen, if there is no new turtle interest there won't be anymore Turtle products.

For instance I may not like the new Transformers movie/designs but I know if I ever want more G1 themed merchandise or toys they have to make the money to fund it somewhere since alone a collector line or merchandise would never pull in as many people/money as the current film/toys.

For all we know Bay's movie could draw in a huge worldwide following that would lead those people to find out more about the brand's origins and would lead to more darker grittier film/product that was more to your liking being sought after and made.

[Spitfire]

You have to realize that without the cartoon/toy line the comic would have went down into history and the idea disappeared forever.
TMNT was one of the most successful independent comic releases of the 80's. In fact it might have been the most successful even before the cartoon series. The movie rights were sold I believe only a year or two after the first issue dropped so no it would not have just disappeared.

If you ever want to see a darker gritty version you have to see the reason lighter kid friendly shows have to happen, if there is no new turtle interest there won't be anymore Turtle products.
Very true but a different version isn't happening regardless so it's a moot point. I get why there needs to be a kids take, just like there's a kids Batman but the movies are serious, but there's no serious TMNT at the moment. The new script read like a retarded version of the old toon, the IDW comic is no Archie and way more kid friendly then any other books, and the new toon is well...for kids obviously.

Also please stop throwing around "dark and gritty". No one is saying that's what they want. More serious and less silly does not equal dark and gritty.

For instance I may not like the new Transformers movie/designs but I know if I ever want more G1 themed merchandise or toys they have to make the money to fund it somewhere since alone a collector line or merchandise would never pull in as many people/money as the current film/toys.

For all we know Bay's movie could draw in a huge worldwide following that would lead those people to find out more about the brand's origins and would lead to more darker grittier film/product that was more to your liking being sought after and made.
Well sadly they pretty much stopped making merch I'm interested in the second they stopped making Sideshow statues. All I'm interested in now are the Mirage trades and IDW is screwing most of those up with horrid coloring jobs. You make a very valid point, and I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see Viacom having any intention to take TMNT where I'd like to see it go.

[Coola Yagami]

That woulda been interesting... if they made the movie based on the comics WITHOUT the cartoon show... there no doubt woulda been a cartoon show based on the popularity of the movie... I doubt it woulda lasted more than a season or so since movie-based cartoons last as long as the movie hype does.

[Spitfire]

That woulda been interesting... if they made the movie based on the comics WITHOUT the cartoon show... there no doubt woulda been a cartoon show based on the popularity of the movie... I doubt it woulda lasted more than a season or so since movie-based cartoons last as long as the movie hype does.

Well Batman TAS lasted quite a bit and it was made to jump off the films. I know that's one example out of a hundred but TMNT gained 90% of it's success from the merchandising which if a movie was involved would have happened. You can have a crazy varied toyline without a goofy kids cartoon attached to it. Hell even if the OT came out after the movie it wouldn't have changed the tone of the films at all and the franchise could have had both. That would have been much more ideal.

[CyberCubed]

Very true but a different version isn't happening regardless so it's a moot point. I get why there needs to be a kids take, just like there's a kids Batman but the movies are serious, but there's no serious TMNT at the moment. The new script read like a retarded version of the old toon, the IDW comic is no Archie and way more kid friendly then any other books, and the new toon is well...for kids obviously.

The IDW series is definitely aimed at an older age group than the Archie books. They're already been beheading, the Turtles slashing the Foot and some blood.

Granted its still tame compared to Mirage, but I believe as the series progresses they won't be afraid of showing more adult stories.

[Coola Yagami]

I kinda like the tone of the IDW and hopes it continues this way. The series has just started out and many of the plots take place in a few days regardless of the fact that 10 issues or so go by those 2 days. I hope they don't rush things like 'the turtles have to grow up' and 'Splinter dies of old age' and keep the story going.

[Spitfire]

The IDW series is definitely aimed at an older age group than the Archie books. They're already been beheading, the Turtles slashing the Foot and some blood.

Granted its still tame compared to Mirage, but I believe as the series progresses they won't be afraid of showing more adult stories.

I think the last issue I read was #12 and at that point nothing that couldn't be in a PG movie had happened. Not that I need hardcore violence. My main problem with IDW isn't the level of gore it's the writing. I find the origin to be completely out there and only in place for the sake of differentiating itself from the source material as much as possible. They also pander way too much which makes the aforementioned statement that much more ironic. The bait and switch on the masks was pretty annoying too. I'm also pretty unimpressed with the artwork. I know IDW can't afford all the fancy guys DC and Marvel use but even those companies C list titles have better artwork then most of the TMNT books. Ross Campbell was fun but I wouldn't want the whole series to look like that. Duncan never did much for me. His turtles look like cavemen with down syndrome.

I'm not picky with art either. I hate to bring it back to this but most of the Mirage artwork I liked and they were an independent company as well. As were Image who also had great art so I don't know maybe there's no stand outs left or something. Anyways I will eventually get around to the rest of the IDW comics but the fact I have little motivation to tells me how much the story has gripped me. I'd rather finish my new Ultimate X and jump into Judge Dredd.

[Coola Yagami]

I think the last issue I read was #12 and at that point nothing that couldn't be in a PG movie had happened. Not that I need hardcore violence. My main problem with IDW isn't the level of gore it's the writing. I find the origin to be completely out there and only in place for the sake of differentiating itself from the source material as much as possible. They also pander way too much which makes the aforementioned statement that much more ironic. The bait and switch on the masks was pretty annoying too. I'm also pretty unimpressed with the artwork. I know IDW can't afford all the fancy guys DC and Marvel use but even those companies C list titles have better artwork then most of the TMNT books. Ross Campbell was fun but I wouldn't want the whole series to look like that. Duncan never did much for me. His turtles look like cavemen with down syndrome.

I'm not picky with art either. I hate to bring it back to this but most of the Mirage artwork I liked and they were an independent company as well. As were Image who also had great art so I don't know maybe there's no stand outs left or something. Anyways I will eventually get around to the rest of the IDW comics but the fact I have little motivation to tells me how much the story has gripped me. I'd rather finish my new Ultimate X and jump into Judge Dredd.

True, but the IDW comics do show some blood, mention be-heading, deals with Casey's drunk father beating the crap out of him from time to time and Leo stabbing Slash. It's stuff cartoons usually censors, leaves out or just doesn't cover.

[Spitfire]

True, but the IDW comics do show some blood, mention be-heading, deals with Casey's drunk father beating the crap out of him from time to time and Leo stabbing Slash. It's stuff cartoons usually censors, leaves out or just doesn't cover.

Sure but none of which equal quality writing which I will say again is what I truly feel the series is lacking. But that's my opinion. Plenty of fans like it so it's a tiny one that hardly matters.

[Coola Yagami]

Sure but none of which equal quality writing which I will say again is what I truly feel the series is lacking. But that's my opinion. Plenty of fans like it so it's a tiny one that hardly matters.

I'm curious as to what you suggest would improve the writing. I'm not dissing you by any means, I just wanna hear you out on this.

[Spitfire]

I'm curious as to what you suggest would improve the writing. I'm not dissing you by any means, I just wanna hear you out on this.

Story isn't engaging me at all. There's really no tension for me. I feel like the level of danger is quite low and thus far the cast of villains have been bumbling at best. Old Hobb sucks and he has zero personality so I find him completely uninteresting as a villain. The scientist who reluctantly does whatever Baxter tells him too lacks motivation. Unless it's explained somewhere and I missed it I hardly see why he continues to commit crimes against nature when he clearly isn't comfortable doing so. That's another issue, I'm sick of the mutant animals. On top of the turtles already having a mass back catalog of mutants they could already be using I just don't like it when they overload on them. It makes them seem a lot less unique and that's one element about turtles I always liked. They were truly one of a kind.

I do find it hilarious they feel the need to invent new mutants when they've spent a rather large portion of the book throwing out fan service wherever they can. That's another issue I have. "Hey remember this!" is not clever writing. Also don't like how they handled April. They really drilled the surrogate mother thing in a little hardcore this time around. Splinter being aware of who he is because he's a super intelligent lab rat is a horrible fix for a problem I always had with the plot of even the original comic book. Making Yoshi Splinter is one of the few things the OT changed for the better and I think IDW should have followed in suit.

Don't like Casey much either. I get making him a teen so he can resonate with Raph better but doesn't work for me. Neither does his Dad seeing Raph and not freaking out. Drunk or not you see a giant mutant creature and you're not going to just go "I'm gonna kick yer ass!". Speaking of the broken home story seems like a rather forced attempt to make Casey and Raph quick friends. I preferred them bonding over a shared desire for justice and the curse of a hot head.

The whole "Oh we only wore red because Raph was missing" thing didn't make any sense to me. How did Splinter know Raph was red? He clearly never picked out colors for them because when he handed out masks they acted surprised. I'm not a fan of the colored headbands to begin with but this half ass explanation that makes zero sense doesn't sell me anymore. I'd have preferred they just didn't even lie about it and started them out colored. Not that it makes sense anyways. They're a ninja clan, why would they wear different colored head bands?

The plotting is just ugh. The pacing is crap and it takes way to long for things to happen. With some editing they could have easily cut down the first 12 issues into 6 or maybe the problem is they needed to have more happening. The jumping back and fourth just got tiresome. Even stories like Infestation were boring. I see a lot of potential with concepts just not execution. I also dislike a fair bit of the dialogue, especially the Turtles. Sometimes they all act like a creepy hive mind and I find that to just be lazy.

I will say I think what they're doing with Krang works well. I do feel like this is how he would have been if the OT had focus of any kind because most of what he's doing is based in actions from the OT. I also like that they held off on Shredder though him being a mute and hating Splinter because of the retarded origin story doesn't work for me.

I'd have to re-read them to give a more in-depth analysis but based off what I remember that's how I feel. Now I haven't read anything past #12 and I never bothered with the one shots after the turtles so maybe this has since changed. Sadly I seem to recall the artwork has taken an even bigger dive though with Duncan leaving so there's still sacrifice abound regardless.

[CyberCubed]

Story isn't engaging me at all. There's really no tension for me. I feel like the level of danger is quite low and thus far the cast of villains have been bumbling at best. Old Hobb sucks and he has zero personality so I find him completely uninteresting as a villain. The scientist who reluctantly does whatever Baxter tells him too lacks motivation. Unless it's explained somewhere and I missed it I hardly see why he continues to commit crimes against nature when he clearly isn't comfortable doing so. That's another issue, I'm sick of the mutant animals. On top of the turtles already having a mass back catalog of mutants they could already be using I just don't like it when they overload on them. It makes them seem a lot less unique and that's one element about turtles I always liked. They were truly one of a kind.

I'm not going to spoil it, but there's a reason Chet is acting the way he does. Read all the micros, its quite cleverly written.

I also don't understand why you're complaining about mutant animals when there's a grand total of 2 of them in the series so far. We haven't even seen Leatherhead yet for that matter.

Also don't like how they handled April. They really drilled the surrogate mother thing in a little hardcore this time around. Splinter being aware of who he is because he's a super intelligent lab rat is a horrible fix for a problem I always had with the plot of even the original comic book. Making Yoshi Splinter is one of the few things the OT changed for the better and I think IDW should have followed in suit.

Yoshi is Splinter in IDW, just done in a different way. And I see no problem with this April, she feels a lot like 4kids April to me to be honest. If you liked 4kids April this one isn't that much different.

The whole "Oh we only wore red because Raph was missing" thing didn't make any sense to me. How did Splinter know Raph was red? He clearly never picked out colors for them because when he handed out masks they acted surprised. I'm not a fan of the colored headbands to begin with but this half ass explanation that makes zero sense doesn't sell me anymore. I'd have preferred they just didn't even lie about it and started them out colored. Not that it makes sense anyways. They're a ninja clan, why would they wear different colored head bands?

Well this I can see your point, but if you read issue #5 he knows from their former lives.

The plotting is just ugh. The pacing is crap and it takes way to long for things to happen. With some editing they could have easily cut down the first 12 issues into 6 or maybe the problem is they needed to have more happening. The jumping back and fourth just got tiresome. Even stories like Infestation were boring. I see a lot of potential with concepts just not execution. I also dislike a fair bit of the dialogue, especially the Turtles. Sometimes they all act like a creepy hive mind and I find that to just be lazy.

Infestation was written by Tristan Jones who wrote many of Tales best issues, not sure why you're complaining. And it took IDW the first year of 12 issues to set up status quo, but they did do a lot in that timeframe. Now we can move forward with better pacing in year two.


Sadly I seem to recall the artwork has taken an even bigger dive though with Duncan leaving so there's still sacrifice abound regardless.

Ben Bates came on with issue #17, his art is great.

[Spitfire]

I'm not going to spoil it, but there's a reason Chet is acting the way he does. Read all the micros, its quite cleverly written.
Well maybe I have something to look forward to then.

I also don't understand why you're complaining about mutant animals when there's a grand total of 2 of them in the series so far. We haven't even seen Leatherhead yet for that matter.
Because they were both introduced almost instantly, which takes away the uniqueness of the Turtles as I said. A little build to it would have been nice.

Yoshi is Splinter in IDW, just done in a different way.
Yeah the new way makes even less sense. So Yoshi is going to be reincarnated as a lab rat and his sons as pet turtles? That's even harder to swallow. It explains their instant martial arts skills but I felt that was just a lazy attempt to skip over that part of their story. It's like someone just instantly gaining super powers.

And I see no problem with this April, she feels a lot like 4kids April to me to be honest. If you liked 4kids April this one isn't that much different.
2K3 April didn't name the turtles and Splinter didn't remember those names and keep them. I also didn't really care much for 2K3 April. She was there when the plot called for her and the rest of the time she did jack ****. I like April better when she's a constant. She was in Season 1 but as the series went on she slowly fell more and more out of that role. She did not mother them though.

Well this I can see your point, but if you read issue #5 he knows from their former lives.
I know why I just think it's extremely stupid.

Infestation was written by Tristan Jones who wrote many of Tales best issues, not sure why you're complaining.
Because regardless of who wrote it I found the story to be lackluster with bad pacing and a very unsatisfying finale. Just because someone wrote a good story before does not mean everything they write is gold.

And it took IDW the first year of 12 issues to set up status quo, but they did do a lot in that timeframe. Now we can move forward with better pacing in year two.
Or it could have had good pacing from the start like most other comics I enjoy. Punisher MAX didn't need a year of warm-up. Neither did Ultimate Spider-man or The Maxx to name a few.

Ben Bates came on with issue #17, his art is great.
Eh...I looked at some previews online. It's better than Andy whoever but still not that great. The covers look better then the interiors. He draws the turtles to look a bit like the Nick ones. Coincidence I think not.

[ToTheNines]

Well maybe I have something to look forward to then.

Yeah, the second batch of Micro's are leagues ahead of the Turtle's issues. I'm not too crazy with Brian Lynch's stories.

Also, Secret History of the Foot Clan right now is really good.

Eh...I looked at some previews online. It's better than Andy whoever but still not that great. The covers look better then the interiors. He draws the turtles to look a bit like the Nick ones. Coincidence I think not.

He openly models his turtles after the Playmates figures for the Nicktoon, so you're pretty much right.

[Konchadunga]

IDW's series is cluttered, and I'm not going to deny that much of its appeal to people is more due to fanservice than actual quality. However, those things that it took from the Fred Wolf series, it generally improves upon; probably not enough for people who aren't there for them, but enough for the majority of people who pick up a comic called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" expecting what they know of it.

As to the reincarnation, my thoughts on this series is that it did so specifically to set a huge ultimate universe in motion immediately, and to substantiate, I also point to several cases wherein the people of New York seem, to at least some degree, accustomed to seeing weird freaks running around. Seen a different way, this could just be gimmicky/bad writing, but if they actually play all of these elements off each other for a few epic show-downs, it will have been worth it.

[Vegeta]

Much easier to have a dark serious world with a billionaire playboy with cooltoys than with giant green turtles. I thought Frank Miller had a bigger hand in changing batman to something good and dark more so tthan the Burton films did.

[Konchadunga]

I agree. Iconic though they might be, the Burton Batman movies really contributed more of value to Gotham City than to Batman himself. Burton's usual schtick found a perfect home in that setting, but his Batman and Catwoman are just more violent psychopaths in a city full of them. What makes Batman: Year One so great is that, even billed as a reaction against the Adam West series, it still gave its protagonists likable, ethical sides that make it clear they're bright spots in a dark universe.

Then, Miller destroyed his reputation with that other Batman story, but fortunately, what he did well is now permanently engrained in the series mythology.

[Cipher]

I coudnt give a rat's backside for "grim and gritty", it's a creativly bankrupt genre at the worst of times and it doesnt automatically make anything "better".

The very first issue of TMNT is objectivly terrible. It is just mindless violence with nice pictures and no plot to speak of.
I'm sick of "grim and gritty" without a point.

I don't actually think the first several issues of the comic are very good.

But I do think a lot of the later Mirage stories, and things like "City at War," are. And they use the bizarreness of the Turtles (justifying the silly premise) to tell more compelling, adult stories.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but that's the side of TMNT I'd like to have a shot in a mainstream incarnation. That's the kind of adult-ish material I feel could give the franchise some stable legs beyond the 5-year kids' show cycle. Not that the lighter material can't be there as well; it's a lot of fun. But surely it's not wanting too much to want this franchise to embrace an area it's visited before -- one that isn't "all silly, all the time" nor is it "raaagh grim and gritty ninjas ignoring how stupid it is that they're turtles."

So, basically, I want the least adaptable version of the franchise ever. Woe is me.

[Vegeta]

I think there's this blind nostalgic view of the Early mirage books. Besides return to ny and city at war they're not that dark and gritty. A lot of it is totally goofy full of nutty humor. Many issues are poorly written and hard to get through like to a few of the solo issues laird and Eastman did. Yes they had great art and had cool ideas but it wasn'talways iincredible nor was it always dark and gritty. Mirage is great but to look down upon recent incarnations because they don't play out like these very dated comics is silly. Though franchises like the xmen can have Saturday morning cartoons then in books like the X force have wolverine ripping heads off. The 80s toon ruined the chance of a varied franchise like this in terms of adult themes and gore.

[Konchadunga]

The Mirage series was at its best, in my opinion, when playing the whole fantasy kitchen sink thing full-stop. The sort of zany I expect from a series of this title, without the tameness the Fred Wolf show descended into quickly. I'm not opposed to the Turtles hacking and slashing enemies, shell; I prefer it, but simple Melee duels are something you can get a lot of other places. Creative ideas are what made the series good

[Shredded]

First of all.

"Adam Wests Batman." did not kill Batman or disgraced it, it's the reason why Batman became popular and why Burton even get to make a movie later, and the 92 show was originally made to promote the Burton movie, and Nolan only got to make his movie because Burtons movie and the tas show made the Batman the most popular hero out there.

No Adam West Batman.. no Batman in the modern day, it is what made the hero popular enough in the public eye the first time around for any-one to even bother later with the figure.

Beside Adam Wests Batman is awesome.
And we are talking the age of the silver age comics! pick up a silver age comic, read it, and remind yourself that is the time Adam Wests Batman came out, that was how comic books were back then. They first changed to a more serious tone with the comic book renecaence in the 80's twenty years after.

Any-way.. don't look at the eighties turtle as the thing that dummed Turtles down. Look at it as the thing that made the turtles importnat!

Here's the thing, the original tmnt mirage comic book were nothing but an underground comic book, sold some issues for its time, sure. But without the popularity of the show, would any-one really have cared today?

The movie happened because of the popularity of the show, not the comics.
Most people were introduced to the turtles through the tely show, and then back-tracked later to the comics, thus the show actually introduced most people to the comics and made them relevant in the first place.

A new ninja turtles show that pays tribute to the 80's show is not killing the turtles or the darker versions of them.. it's keeping them alive!
It's introducing an entire new genneration to the turtles, an genneration whom would not have cared otherwise, some of these kids will grow up and one day, search out the source material of the turtles on their own, which would be the mirage comic books.

What would really suck, would be if the show was really bad, cause that would turn people off the turtles, and they wouldn't search out the source material, then it would be killing it.
But it's not, it's a good show, thus a new genneration of kids can search out the source material on their own, because of their own interest.

People can be so protective of their fandomn, and even go so far as to prefer having nothing new coming out over a re-make.

But here's the thing... remakes are a franchise way of surviving past it's initial genneration.

I hate a bad remake just as much as the next guy, things that are being made for name recognision only have a tendencey to suck.
But a genuinly good new remake and re-enterpretation of things I like, introducing it to a bigger audience so I can share my passion with them. How can I be angry or even dissapointed about that?

Beside, here seems to be the curve of the turtles.

"Mirage comics, adult and gritty, though also with a sense of humour." (thank god, I can't take dark and gritty that takes itself to seriously, I need good characterasation.)
"Eighties show, fun and comedic, some-times feels like a self parody."
"Movies, some-where in the middle."
"2k3 show, back to comic book roots, pulling scenes, character and dialougs straight out of the comic book, takes itself much more serious."
"2k7 movie, feels in tone like the more serious 2k3 show."
"2k12 show, fun tribute to the eighties show with a flair of drama mixed with the comedy."

Each one a new interpretation, each one trying to be different than the previous one, which is good.. you don't make some-thing new for it to be a carbon copy of some-thing that all-ready exist. It needs to be a tribute to what came before, also adding new things. All interpretations will do that.

And to take a guess.. the 2k12 show will run its own course, run for some years, and then end. Now that was a more fun show. So what will be natural to make after that? A more serious show, so that will probably come next in around a decade from now.

Just enjoy your ride, and enjoy that your fandomn is not only alive, but is striving so well, and you can share the awesomness with a younger crowd whom also loves the turtles :)

[Candy Kappa]

You right, the Adam west show did not hold Batman down, it temporarily boosted it.

Batman thrives in all genres but the sales was falling back in the early 60's after the Comics Code Authority, where Batman began having zany campy space adventures. The whole Batman world was redesigned right before the Adam West show, and the influence the TV show had over the comic, vanished as soon as the show was canceled cause the sales dropped again. And then comes Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams.

"Mirage comics, adult and gritty, though also with a sense of humour." (thank god, I can't take dark and gritty that takes itself to seriously, I need good characterasation.) )

Hmm, I guess you haven't read much Mirage. it's no more adult then the marvel comics that was in the mid 80's, dark & gritty? Not really, this wasn't any MAX print. C'mon get real.

The TMNT might be a indie comic, but they where still very popular before the cartoon show. They had their very own PnPRPG for Pete's sake, which had multiple supplement book. The RPG's downfall was the cartoon, sadly.

[Shredded]

You right, the Adam west show did not hold Batman down, it temporarily boosted it.

Batman thrives in all genres but the sales was falling back in the early 60's after the Comics Code Authority, where Batman began having zany campy space adventures. The whole Batman world was redesigned right before the Adam West show, and the influence the TV show had over the comic, vanished as soon as the show was canceled cause the sales dropped again. And then comes Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams.



Hmm, I guess you haven't read much Mirage. it's no more adult then the marvel comics that was in the mid 80's, dark & gritty? Not really, this wasn't any MAX print. C'mon get real.

The TMNT might be a indie comic, but they where still very popular before the cartoon show. They had their very own PnPRPG for Pete's sake, which had multiple supplement book. The RPG's downfall was the cartoon, sadly.

I also think people tend to forget that "Batman Tas." actually weren't any call-backs to any roots. There existed nothing like Batman Tas before that show, not in comic book format, not in tely, not any-where. Batman tas invented this tone, which is today so synomenous with comic books, it invented a new form of story telling, the tone, several background stories, it re-shaped how we look at not only comic books and comic book adaptations.. but saturday morning cartoons! Batman tas were its own revolution, telling we can have smarter stories in children shows. allowing the way for such things as the 4kids ninja turtles where there's genuine empathis on clever story, and even this new nick show.
And clearly the creators of Batman Tas were actually fans of the Adam West show as they drew several elements from the show, even re-used some characters and call-backs.

So yeah, we owe Adam West Batman.. which is an awesome show. Only show I have ever seen where an elderly lady just pulls up a BB-gun from her hand-bag and yells at her kids at the children. "Just keep on eating your carrots boys! i'll handle this!" *Steps towards window and starts shooting at police.* .... oO;

I've read some of the Mirage comics, and what stroke me was the actual good characterasation, embrace of it's own "Fantastic." univers, which fully utilize that this is an story that can do what-ever it feels like, it can use "Sciense." as if it's magic, does it feel like it.
It never stands still and actually do stuff, without being to pretentious. "Look at us we are so gritty."
That's what annoys me most about. "Serious stories." it takes itself so serious.. that it doesn't do a thing, nothing ever happens, that's pretentious and boring.
The comic is about four teenage mutant ninja turtles, and it is aware of that, it's not "Realistic." in any stretch of the word, and that's pretty good.

You know what I meant, the tone of the comics is darker than any of the interpretation in moving media.

But I guess the thing also is, the comics were made for teens and young adults in mind, the movies and tely show has to be made for kids, at most young teen. So erh yeah, there will always be a tone difference.

How-ever, as I like a good saturday morning cartoon that just go for traditionel story telling without needing to out-smart itself and just have a good time.
I don't mind at all.