Are the Turtles still aliens?

[gzilla46]

I wasn't really following progress of this movie. I was more focused on the Godzilla reboot. How's the TMNT movie doing? The Turtles aren't aliens anymore, are they?

[Donatello19]

I honestly don't think they were ever aliens. I'm pretty sure Michael Bay meant they came from an alien race in the fact that the ooze that mutated them came from an alien race.

[CyberCubed]

I honestly don't think they were ever aliens. I'm pretty sure Michael Bay meant they came from an alien race in the fact that the ooze that mutated them came from an alien race.

The actual script that was trashed had them as aliens. Also had Shredder as an alien but instead of an Utrom he was like a humanoid alien with spikes or something.

[Jephael]

Some are saying that script was entirely fabricated to make Michael Bay and his production team look bad.

[Zulithe]

I've only read an overview of the old script. We don't know how much has changed... hopefully it has changed substantially.

Turtles mutated by an alien substance... good
Turtles physically originating from a planet that is not our earth... NOT good!

I'm fine with some changes being made... every time a new turtle show or movie or comic relaunch comes out, things change. but there are some things that should be constants. The TMNT *are* turtles from our planet that came into contact with a mutagen ooze that was created by or in consort with aliens! Please don't change it. The fact that the turtles are FROM earth is what makes them 'our' heroes and relatable. If they are from another planet it changes them totally.

[Bob]

I can’t imagine it would have changed substantially for the simple reason that we didn’t hear of any new writers coming on board. Michael Bay is a liar. Any Transformers fans who have been following his posts since 2005 will testify to that. I have no doubt that the leaked script was written by the Mission Impossible writers. I’m pretty sure some changes would have been made, as that script did appear to be a very early draft. Scripts are constantly changing. However, I really don’ t think any changes would be so big as to eject the alien angle. That plot point was a pretty integral component to the film. Getting rid of it would pretty much mean starting from scratch, which they certainly didn’t do because, as I said, no new writer(s) came on board once the film was delayed. I still think the delay was to get the budget down more than the studio thinking the script had problems.

Basically, I will be very surprised if the Turtles aren’t aliens in the finished film.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Turtles mutated by an alien substance... good
Turtles physically originating from a planet that is not our earth... NOT good!



Of course. That doctrine is among the most basical elements of any TMNT universe (I always wished "Secret of the Ooze" actually went that way, with Jordan Perry as a friend of the Utroms).

[Longview01]

Some are saying that script was entirely fabricated to make Michael Bay and his production team look bad.

But they do such a good job themselves...why bother :lol:

[Shark_Blade]

If they are aliens, Bay and the team will get what's coming for them.

[ToTheNines]

Some are saying that script was entirely fabricated to make Michael Bay and his production team look bad.

I think so, too. It had a couple of good things about it, but overall I can't believe a hollywood writer could pass that **** off and expect a paycheck.

[CyberCubed]

I don't even understand why they made Casey the main character. Its as if they thought the Turtles themselves weren't relateable to the audience so they made Casey the main lead as a normal young adult hero.

And what they did with Shredder was awful.

[Candy Kappa]

Of course. That doctrine is among the most basical elements of any TMNT universe (I always wished "Secret of the Ooze" actually went that way, with Jordan Perry as a friend of the Utroms).

pretty sure Perry was meant to be an Utrom. But it was scrapped due to cost, and the mis-connection to Krang

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

pretty sure Perry was meant to be an Utrom. But it was scrapped due to cost, and the mis-connection to Krang

Jordan Perry was probably misstaken with Baxter Stockman. But could you acutally do that in a live-action movie in 1991 (so that it was an Utrom)?

[Candy Kappa]

Animatronics, just like the moving turtle heads. If I remember correctly it was meant to be a revelation at the end of the movie, so no utrom through out the whole film

[NinjaMan]

I haven't read it but how was Shredder handle? And the Turtles actually came from a planet of Turtles or animals in general?

[Xav]

Some are saying that script was entirely fabricated to make Michael Bay and his production team look bad.Bay said the script was shredded, and written before he came on board, if it was fake why didn't he just say so like he did with the Transformers 4 script?

[Slap-Happy]

Bay said the script was shredded, and written before he came on board

That's a lie. The script is written by Appelbaum and Nemec, and dated January. Those guys came on after Platinum Dunes came on to do the movie a couple years ago.

[Xav]

Yes but here's his official response To end this stupid merry go round and explain the math...Yes we signed on two years ago to Turtles, but with no deal in place. Deal completed towards end of last year. And yes, thats how long deals sometimes take. So no work was done on the script. Blame Paramount, not us for the first draft.

[Redeemer]

I don't even understand why they made Casey the main character. Its as if they thought the Turtles themselves weren't relateable to the audience so they made Casey the main lead as a normal young adult hero.

And what they did with Shredder was awful.

whats strange is thats what they did with Transformers, so I would not doubt anythine coming out of hollywood

[sgtfbomb]

I haven't read it but how was Shredder handle? And the Turtles actually came from a planet of Turtles or animals in general?

Shredder was probably the most disappointing aspect of the script. I have no problem with changing the character, but, essentially, it's not really the same character. He's an alien/inter-dimensional being that poses as a human colonel, infiltrating the army with his own faction. He changes form and has a spiky body, if I remember right. His name was Col. Schrader.

If I remember right, it was less of an alien planet or more of an alternate dimension, rifting over into our world. Essentially, imagine if the Turtles themselves were born in Dimension X. Krang is a dictator and if I recall he wants to cross over into our world and dominate it. There are turtle people, and apparently, since Splinter knew their parents, rat people. This is all fine and dandy, except there is some lame prophecy crap.

But this irrelevant because everything has most likely changed, re-tooled, or fleshed out, since this was an early draft. Early drafts are often godawful.

[TurtleMaster4]

Shredder was probably the most disappointing aspect of the script. I have no problem with changing the character, but, essentially, it's not really the same character. He's an alien/inter-dimensional being that poses as a human colonel, infiltrating the army with his own faction. He changes form and has a spiky body, if I remember right. His name was Col. Schrader.

If I remember right, it was less of an alien planet or more of an alternate dimension, rifting over into our world. Essentially, imagine if the Turtles themselves were born in Dimension X. Krang is a dictator and if I recall he wants to cross over into our world and dominate it. There are turtle people, and apparently, since Splinter knew their parents, rat people. This is all fine and dandy, except there is some lame prophecy crap.

But this irrelevant because everything has most likely changed, re-tooled, or fleshed out, since this was an early draft. Early drafts are often godawful.

I agree with your point that shredder was the most disapointing part of it. In all of Ninja Turtles history, he is a ninja, but now he's a colonial, and the foot "ninjas" are now an army unit.

I don't mind the whole prophecy "crap" I liked the star wars prequels, they are a peice of art to mem so I'm a big fan of the chosen one thing. The thing with the script is the turtles themselves are aleins, and that's a big jump. If they were just mutant who some how found themselves and were part of a prophecy that a bunch of MUTANT reptiles from another planet, must come an face an alien threat, I would be perfectly fine with that. But of course, it's not like that.

Let's just hope the scripts had some major changes over the last year or two.

[chrisdude]

That's a lie. The script is written by Appelbaum and Nemec, and dated January. Those guys came on after Platinum Dunes came on to do the movie a couple years ago.I figured the script was too new, but I didn't know those writers worked with Platinum Dunes.

The plot, the over-the-top action sequences, the way the turtles' characters are so shallow, the stupid jokes - everything about that script screamed Transformers, and it was mindblowing to hear Michael Bay say it was before his time.

[Sleepingseeker]

The fact that the turtles are FROM earth is what makes them 'our' heroes and relatable. If they are from another planet it changes them totally.

Couldn't agree more. :)

[chrisdude]

The origin isn't such a big deal, to me. I think the important thing is that they grow up on Earth not knowing it. And they did, in the leaked script. Like adopted children, the dynamic would change after they found out, but the turtles were very much American and human, because of the world they grew up in.

I'm also not bothered by The Foot being a military unit. And honestly, I thought the Schrader thing was pretty cool.
I've seen so many origin stories, so many Shredders, so many Foot Clans. And I'm not even old. I'm cool with trying something different.

[ToTheNines]

I'm also not bothered by The Foot being a military unit. And honestly, I thought the Schrader thing was pretty cool.
I've seen so many origin stories, so many Shredders, so many Foot Clans. And I'm not even old. I'm cool with trying something different.

I can handle "different". But I draw the line at "****ing retarded". I won't see this movie if any aspect of Col. Schrader is left intact.

[chrisdude]

I can handle "different". But I draw the line at "****ing retarded". I won't see this movie if any aspect of Col. Schrader is left intact.I don't think it's less reasonable than a ninja clan in present day America.

[Wildcat]

The origin isn't such a big deal, to me. I think the important thing is that they grow up on Earth not knowing it. And they did, in the leaked script. Like adopted children, the dynamic would change after they found out, but the turtles were very much American and human, because of the world they grew up in. I'm also not bothered by The Foot being a military unit.

And honestly, I thought the Schrader thing was pretty cool. I've seen so many origin stories, so many Shredders, so many Foot Clans. And I'm not even old. I'm cool with trying something different I agree. Didnt read the script but everything Ive heard sounds kinda cool to me. Im sure Im in the minority here, lol.

Regardless of Bay I like the idea of alternate origins. Not as replacements but as fresh takes. Long as the characters still represent their usual self.

Ive thought an alternate-origin Batman would be cool. Instead of his parents killed hed be a regular joe who works his way up but doesn't become rich.

[Zulithe]

You know what the leaked script reminds me of...

Super Mario Bros. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros._%28film%29) Yeah, the live action film from 1993.

I was really young then but I remember liking it because it took a sort of "realistic" approach to mario. Where bowser is a human and his goomba thugs are humanoids with lizard heads... the princess is really not much of a princess at all... and they use robotic boots to "jump" high :/

While I don't think TMNT needs a "realistic" spin (aliens are not more believable than mutants, IMO), you can see a lot of similarities, like how it takes the established lore and it tries to filter it into something more... palatable? Something that will appeal to more people, like sci-fi fans.

And I hate it. Yeah if I were 10yo today I might still like it, but I'm not 10 and I'm not having it. This approach to adapting material is exploitative and ultimately will result in a product that is easily forgotten and despised by the fanbase just like Super Mario Bros. was.

Imagine what a Mario movie could be like if they took the source material and instead of pushing it into a different mould they just took it seriously and gave it a treatment it deserves. Worked for Lord of the Rings. Worked pretty well for the first live action TMNT film, given the constraints they had to deal with it still turned out quite well.

[shuriken]

^^ The problem with Mario is anyway you look at it it's an Italian dude tripping out on Shrooms. Granted that movie would be amazingly hilarious but someone should make one for the sake of the Mushroom Kingdom.

[Wildcat]

Super Mario Bros is a bad example imo. That was terrible. It wasn't just different origins and a different take. They literally changed everything (except mario and luigi).

A human Bowser and Goombas with bodies? and Yoshi was like a JP raptor. From a realistic stand point I guess Yoshi was ok but everything else was totally different.

Here (from what Ive read, I have not read the actual script) the turtles would still be turtles. Shredder would still be a guy with spikes. Him being an alien is certainly believable. Just look at him in the 2k3 cartoon.

Commanding an army is even more believable. The foot and Krang use guns and weapons in the cartoons. Having an army is not farfetched at all.

[Zulithe]

You don't think making shredder a colonel and changing his name into a joke as well as making the turtles ALIENS FROM SPACE are comparable terrible design choices to that found in Super Mario Bros? We are on two different worlds then.

I think you are underestimating what a big change to the lore it actually is. The TMNT are mutants... from earth... mutated from earth lifeforms. If they are aliens then what does that mean about mutants? There are no mutants on earth? Everything is from Dimension X then? If there are still mutants then WHY? it no longer makes sense to even have mutants in this universe if the TMNT themselves aren't even mutants.

Ciro broke it down perfectly himself on his last comic con panel. The core elements of TMNT shared across all iterations: mutants, dimension x, ninjas and brotherhood. If any of those are missing, it's not TMNT anymore.

It changes A LOT. Stop ignoring it. Instead, raise hell so hopefully we can influence someone to change it if they haven't already.

[Wildcat]

@ Zulithe, as I mentioned in my first post I dont mind this type of thing as a different take but NOT as a replacement. I see what youre saying and what everyone else is too. Ive seen it on IMDB also.

What Im saying is I think itd would be cool as a different take on it, if just for 1 movie. Not that this would become the standard for TMNT storytelling.

As long as the characters still represent their usual self, which it sounds like it would, I think itd be fun to see a different spin on it.

Super Mario Bros did not do that, from what I remember (have not seen it in so long). Human Bowser and thug Goombas in no way represent how they were in the games. Turtles still being turtloids and Shredder still being a dude with spikes and soldiers is still a representation of how they've always been.

I hope you understand what I mean.

[ToTheNines]

I don't think it's less reasonable than a ninja clan in present day America.

It really is. How the **** is an alien going to infiltrate the US Army and bring in his own personal group of soldiers?

With ninjas, they always work. Look at Batman Begins. I mean, ninjas could be around in real life, and we just don't know about them :shifty:

[sgtfbomb]

It's not exactly like it, but yeah, the first draft did remind me of the Super Mario Bros movie, in a way. Krang is trying to merge the dimensions and enslave human kind. However, it was the bad humor that did me in. The sexy Turtle chick just seems like something you would see in a poor adaption from the 90s.

[CyberCubed]

The whole concept is horrible. It completely changes the characters into something they're not.

IDW and Nick managed to make new universes with new ideas and yet it still feels true to the original material.

I always got the feeling the new movie would be the worst of the 3 new incarnations too.

[chrisdude]

I wouldn't be surprised if it were the worst version. But I think it'd be because of how Michael Bay treats the turtles. No, he's not the director or the writer, but that script is exactly Transformers for TMNT. I don't wan the turtles to be goofy background characters like the Autobots were :cry:

[Leonardo87]

Yes; yes they're aliens. For Goodness sake people; we must stop this madness!


Seriously; do people still think this? Why? I think they need to learn a Mirage book in my opinion.

[Konchadunga]

Being aliens wouldn't automatically ruin the movie for me, but at the same time, I feel it is completely unnecessary. The Turtles have gone to fight aliens on Earth, other planets, and even other dimensions before, without being aliens themselves, so given that, why change it? I see no point.

[CyberCubed]

Being aliens completely destroys the TMNT concept.

[zodiac brave]

seems as arbitrary as the spider-man origin change from amazing. i thought it was ridiculous and i think this is ridiculous.

did it ruin amazing spider-man? well, that movie seemed to have so many shortcomings at the end of it all, that it made that detail seem insignificant to the other worse, far more blatant mistakes.

that's exactly my thought on how this movie might end up anyway.

[drewizzle88]

Link to the script posted in another thread for those who haven't read it and wish to...

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?fbshx0svrpe7efe#

I liked most of it at the first, apart from calling military soldiers the foot, it seemed exciting and action packed although I imagined way too many Michael Bay explosions. Then it got really bad to me when we were told Schrader was alien Shredder and had blades coming out of his skin. I thought the battle at the lair with splinter and beebop and rocksteady sounded entertaining. But then again it got worse, the turtles were in Dimension X with other turtles and also were told they were aliens. The ending was even more awful with each turtle going their own way with the orbs to find their trainees...at least Casey was still a hockey player and not a volleyball player now.

[chrisdude]

I read the leaked script from start to finish.

I guess I feel like TMNT has had more interpretations than darn near anything. At what point is it okay to think outside the box?

The Amazing Spider-Man changed a lot, but I still feel like it was the best Spider-Man movie. I feel like TMNT has seen enough interpretations, that we can wild out, at this point.

If not now, how many faithful interpretations do you need? Or does a wildly different idea NEVER deserve to exist?

[Zulithe]

I guess I just don't see WHY it would need to be so radically different. Was Transformers really that radically different from the past show and comics? We just need a strong story that introduces the turtles to a new generation, that's it. It doesn't have to reinvent everything especially when those choices could backfire, the traditional story has already proven itself to be strong.

I'm sure they will have their own twists and added elements that make it fresh and new. I just hope some of their choices are not as extreme as seen in this early script.

What I do like about the script is it features a 'young' april and casey, I think april works better as a character similarly aged to the turtles. Besides, April's being older and being a news reporter was never a big benefit to the turtles, so why does it matter if she's really a reporter yet or not? So here is an example of a change from earlier versions that I think works. Changing a character's age isn't a breaking thing most of the times, especially if it's only by this much.

[Plasticplayhouse]

I don't think it's less reasonable than a ninja clan in present day America.

and therein lies the key to all of Hollywood's F' ups when making movies based from books. the story of the turtles does contain ninja clans in modern day america. is it realistic? not really, but neither are talking turtles that know how to meditate and kick ass. when will Hollywood learn that fans dont want "reasonable", we want the story that we know, the way we know it.

so many directors/producers are so concerned about making it "believable/relatable" that they abandon much of what makes up the source material in the first place. if a franchise is already very successful, why on earth would you want to change anything! there is no need to "recreate/reimagine/upgrade" any of the base story or characters. that is the whole reason why fans love the property in the first place.

it's quite simple. if you are producing/directing a movie that is based from an already very successful property, you are basically being handed success on an silver platter. simply translate it in honesty without adding any or your own tweaks, plots, characters, or designs and it WILL be a success.

some examples:
the hunger games: director made too many modifications to the original story. on the special features, he admitted that he fabricated parts of script himself because he thought it would "add" to the movie.

the last airbender: shamalan really f'd this one up when he added his own elements to the story and characters.

why must these producers/directors feel the need to "put their fingerprint on it"? you don't need to TOUCH anything! we don't want YOUR side of the story, we only want to see it how it's suppose to be.

[CyberCubed]

It makes no sense either. Nick will want kids watching the cartoon to see this movie, just like fans of the original toon saw Movie 1 and 2 in theaters.

Why would they make the movie so drastically different than the cartoon kids are growing up with?

[The Stryker]

and therein lies the key to all of Hollywood's F' ups when making movies based from books. the story of the turtles does contain ninja clans in modern day america. is it realistic? not really, but neither are talking turtles that know how to meditate and kick ass. when will Hollywood learn that fans dont want "reasonable", we want the story that we know, the way we know it.

so many directors/producers are so concerned about making it "believable/relatable" that they abandon much of what makes up the source material in the first place. if a franchise is already very successful, why on earth would you want to change anything! there is no need to "recreate/reimagine/upgrade" any of the base story or characters. that is the whole reason why fans love the property in the first place.

it's quite simple. if you are producing/directing a movie that is based from an already very successful property, you are basically being handed success on an silver platter. simply translate it in honesty without adding any or your own tweaks, plots, characters, or designs and it WILL be a success.

some examples:
the hunger games: director made too many modifications to the original story. on the special features, he admitted that he fabricated parts of script himself because he thought it would "add" to the movie.

the last airbender: shamalan really f'd this one up when he added his own elements to the story and characters.

why must these producers/directors feel the need to "put their fingerprint on it"? you don't need to TOUCH anything! we don't want YOUR side of the story, we only want to see it how it's suppose to be.

This whole thing reeks of 'I'm scared of change and any sort of new idea."

Sometimes the changes people make can be awful but to say that any change to the source material makes it bad is more than alittle stupid. Some comics and cartoons NEED to be modified to make sense and work as a film. It just takes talented writers to shape it.

Hell, look at the Nolan Batman movies. They changed character origins, looks and motivations all over the place and they made money. The Avengers series is the same deal.

[Plasticplayhouse]

This whole thing reeks of 'I'm scared of change and any sort of new idea."

Sometimes the changes people make can be awful but to say that any change to the source material makes it bad is more than alittle stupid. Some comics and cartoons NEED to be modified to make sense and work as a film. It just takes talented writers to shape it.

Hell, look at the Nolan Batman movies. They changed character origins, looks and motivations all over the place and they made money. The Avengers series is the same deal.

i agree about the nolan batman; good point, but the good revamps are in the minority. the thing is, when i pay to watch a movie about a book that i am a big fan of, i want it to follow the book so can ejoy the big screen adaptation of it just as much as i enjoyed the book.

if i want to listen to the red hot chili peppers, i would attend one of their concerts, not that of a cover band.

[chrisdude]

and therein lies the key to all of Hollywood's F' ups when making movies based from books. the story of the turtles does contain ninja clans in modern day america. is it realistic? not really, but neither are talking turtles that know how to meditate and kick ass. when will Hollywood learn that fans dont want "reasonable", we want the story that we know, the way we know it.

so many directors/producers are so concerned about making it "believable/relatable" that they abandon much of what makes up the source material in the first place. if a franchise is already very successful, why on earth would you want to change anything! there is no need to "recreate/reimagine/upgrade" any of the base story or characters. that is the whole reason why fans love the property in the first place.

it's quite simple. if you are producing/directing a movie that is based from an already very successful property, you are basically being handed success on an silver platter. simply translate it in honesty without adding any or your own tweaks, plots, characters, or designs and it WILL be a success.

some examples:
the hunger games: director made too many modifications to the original story. on the special features, he admitted that he fabricated parts of script himself because he thought it would "add" to the movie.

the last airbender: shamalan really f'd this one up when he added his own elements to the story and characters.

why must these producers/directors feel the need to "put their fingerprint on it"? you don't need to TOUCH anything! we don't want YOUR side of the story, we only want to see it how it's suppose to be.Every version of TMNT since the first has been different. I mean, look at how much the original cartoon changed from the Mirage comics.

Why should an adaptation be exactly the same, instead of maybe making changes that make for a good movie? I don't know about The Hunger Games or The Last Airbender, but those are just new versions of something you still have. The original versions of everything already exists, in all its purity.

Staying faithful to what made the original thing work is a good idea. But that's been done, over and over, with TMNT. I just feel like, at some point, it's okay to start thinking outside of the box :ohwell:

[The Stryker]

i agree about the nolan batman; good point, but the good revamps are in the minority. the thing is, when i pay to watch a movie about a book that i am a big fan of, i want it to follow the book so can ejoy the big screen adaptation of it just as much as i enjoyed the book.

if i want to listen to the red hot chili peppers, i would attend one of their concerts, not that of a cover band.

And I think that's boring and alittle unrealistic. Just LOOK some of the stuff that goes on in comics and tell me it would work in a movie with no changes whatsoever.

If I want to see a perfect comic accurate interpretation of a character or story....I'll read the comic. Done. It seems pretty redundant to do the EXACT same thing for a movie that should be a bigger thing than 'Its what you already read, only it costs a billion dollars more and you pay 10 bucks to see it'.

[chrisdude]

Has anything been revamped and loved in more incarnations than Batman?

[The Stryker]

I wouldn't say I love the Nolan interpretation (In fact I'd say Rises was pretty bad. The changes were the least of it's issues though)

But yeah. Batman's been changed a ton of times and he's doing just fine.

[Candy Kappa]

I don't see the Zur-En-Arrh Batman get any movie soon

[Xav]

Ciro broke it down perfectly himself on his last comic con panel. The core elements of TMNT shared across all iterations: mutants, dimension x, ninjas and brotherhood. If any of those are missing, it's not TMNT anymore.I disagree on the Dimension X thing though, that's really only a Fred Wolf/Archie thing. It wasn't in the Mirage comics, movies, or 4Kids series, and I think they still count as TMNT.
Hell, look at the Nolan Batman movies. They changed character origins, looks and motivations all over the place and they made money. The Avengers series is the same deal.The difference is he was still Bruce Wayne billionaire playboy, who parents were killed and decided to dress up as a Bat and fight crime. He wasn't some poor super powered alien from another planet whose parents never died.

[CyberCubed]

I disagree on the Dimension X thing though, that's really only a Fred Wolf/Archie thing.

Dimension X will be in the Nick cartoon too though.

[chrisdude]

I have to disagree with the sentiment, in general. I just don't believe changing the origin necessarily changes who the turtles are. I think it's important that they grow up on Earth. That would change who they are. But the turtles are who they are before they even know where they came from.

[Jephael]

II think it's important that they grow up on Earth. That would change who they are. But the turtles are who they are before they even know where they came from.

Just like a certain farmboy who grows up to be the Man of Steel!

[Xav]

I think the big problem is the turtles aren't accidental heroes anymore they are the "chosen ones", and they are no longer alone in the universe, now there is a whole freaking planet of them.

[The Stryker]

Just like a certain farmboy who grows up to be the Man of Steel!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Supermanredson.jpg/250px-Supermanredson.jpg

[Jester]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Supermanredson.jpg/250px-Supermanredson.jpg
Nothing like using an Elseworld story to prove your point. It's an intentional reworking of the standard Man of Steel mythos. That's the whole point of Elseworlds. It's not mainline Superman, and they'd never base a blockbuster/franchise on a one-off story like that.

[The Stryker]

Nothing like using an Elseworld story to prove your point.

You mean the story that's whole point was that Superman was a good natured soul no matter where he was raised? Or who he was raised by? Yeah I think it fits a bit. Just saying some parts are not as essential as fans force themselves to believe.

If THAT radical a change can still get the point across. Making the turtles origins trace back to another dimension won't change the characters at all if they're still raised in the 'real world'.

[Zulithe]

I disagree on the Dimension X thing though, that's really only a Fred Wolf/Archie thing. It wasn't in the Mirage comics, movies, or 4Kids series, and I think they still count as TMNT.
The difference is he was still Bruce Wayne billionaire playboy, who parents were killed and decided to dress up as a Bat and fight crime. He wasn't some poor super powered alien from another planet.
Mirage and 4kids still have extraplanetary stuff with lots of aliens and advanced robots. Even if it's not called "dimension x" it's still the same element that is being weighed. "dimension x" in that usage is really just shorthand for all that stuff in the way i interpret ciro using it in his panel analysis. (anyway I don't have a lot of experience watching the 4Kids show so I can't honestly dissect it from that POV, just going by what you said that dimension x does not exist there)

As for the films, up until now no film chose to focus on that part of the mythos, which is fair since they only have roughly 2 hours per film to divide amongst everything they want to cover. But it could be argued that it was lurking in the background and subtext if you wanted to interpret certain things. However this new film seems to be utilizing the Dimension X stuff directly.

I think the big problem is the turtles aren't accidental heroes anymore they are the "chosen ones", and they are no longer alone in the universe, now there is a whole freaking planet of them.

To everyone arguing that the turtles being aliens does not change them as characters, I think this is a great point... Since the turtles are mutants they are sort of unique. There's not a whole planet of them out there, they are just 4 characters against the world. Yeah there are other mutant turtles now and then but they are always different -- like for example being mutated from a different genus of turtle, etc. The turtles may not even know they are part of a race until very late in the film, but once they do their worldview is immediately changed. And then imagine the sequels... are they going to travel to their planet and meet a billion other turtles? Mikey finds out every single turtle there LOVES pizza and they make the best pizza in the universe there!?!?!? Well wouldn't that be something. Ugh.

So how do they get around this? Maybe the film has it to where their home planet was destroyed. Gasp! Now they are the last of their kind. so we're almost back to square one. At some point you just have to ask... what does the story gain by them being aliens rather than mutated turtles from earth? How does it HELP the story be stronger? If they really do pull that off, maybe I could accept it. But as far as I'm concerned they are fighting an uphill battle with very little to gain.

[Candy Kappa]

If the turtles where to be aliens, they shouldn't be allowed to go home, then we get something similar of the TMNT. one of the things about the turtles is that they are the only one of their kind, the first and the last of bipedal turtles.

And what about Splinter, does he know that the turtles and maybe him is from another planet, why keep it secret, or if he has told the turtles that they belong to a different world. Why should the turtles even think about fighting crime or fight a ninja Clan when they should be working on a way to get home.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Supermanredson.jpg/250px-Supermanredson.jpg

Superman might not be an extraterrestrial as the M. Night Shyamalan ending revealed, but he was still very much an alien from another world when his time line is billions of years into the future. And Superman became a tyrant leader of Soviet, anyone that disagree gets lobotomized. It is at the end of the book he sees the error of his ways as a leader.

[Jephael]

You mean the story that's whole point was that Superman was a good natured soul no matter where he was raised? Or who he was raised by? Yeah I think it fits a bit. Just saying some parts are not as essential as fans force themselves to believe.

If THAT radical a change can still get the point across. Making the turtles origins trace back to another dimension won't change the characters at all if they're still raised in the 'real world'.

Excellent point. There was another Elseworld story where Kal-El was raised by an Amish family. Basically the same setup as it was with Red Son.

[Xav]

Yes; yes they're aliens. For Goodness sake people; we must stop this madness!


Seriously; do people still think this? Why? I think they need to learn a Mirage book in my opinion.The turtles are still mutants in the Mirage comics.
And what about Splinter, does he know that the turtles and maybe him is from another planet, why keep it secret, or if he has told the turtles that they belong to a different world.If Splinter is an alien too than why would he name the turtles after Italian Renaissance artists or train them in an ancient Japanese marital art?

[Candy Kappa]

If Splinter is an alien too than why would he name the turtles after Italian Renaissance artists or train them in an ancient Japanese marital art?

That is also a good question. As stranded aliens, there is no need for them to train martial arts and be ninja.

Unless they all don't know that they are aliens, but then why should they be changed from mutants to aliens in the movie then. it makes no sense in storytelling.

[Xav]

Turtles still being turtloids and Shredder still being a dude with spikes and soldiers is still a representation of how they've always been.But is that really all there is to Shredder's character? Simply being a dude with spikes?

[zodiac brave]

But is that really all there is to Shredder's character? Simply being a dude with spikes?

this.

shredder=ninja leader of the foot, intent on trying to control crime in ny while also (maybe/sometimes) trying to defeat the turtles/splinter. theres a whole backstory to who he is and what his motivations are.

just giving colonel schraeder spikes and a strained-sound alike name DO NOT equate to how he has always been represented. in fact, it's an obvious drastic change.

whether its good or not...well, that remains to be seen. i dont think it will be great or a good interpretation, but even if it is the direction they choose to go in and it comes out miraculously awesome, its STILL not an accurate rep of how he's always been.

[gzilla46]

So, this discussion didn't really quite answer my question. Are the Turtles still aliens, or did they get rid of that concept.

[frank_one]

So, this discussion didn't really quite answer my question. Are the Turtles still aliens, or did they get rid of that concept.
No one knows.

[Bob]

So, this discussion didn't really quite answer my question. Are the Turtles still aliens, or did they get rid of that concept.

No one knows for sure. I would guess they are still aliens, though. The main reason why I think so is because the whole alien angle was integral to the plot in the leaked script. I doubt they would have just ejected it completely.

[Candy Kappa]

We where the aliens all along!

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

this.

shredder=ninja leader of the foot, intent on trying to control crime in ny while also (maybe/sometimes) trying to defeat the turtles/splinter. theres a whole backstory to who he is and what his motivations are.

just giving colonel schraeder spikes and a strained-sound alike name DO NOT equate to how he has always been represented. in fact, it's an obvious drastic change.

whether its good or not...well, that remains to be seen. i dont think it will be great or a good interpretation, but even if it is the direction they choose to go in and it comes out miraculously awesome, its STILL not an accurate rep of how he's always been.

If you take the ninja out of Shredder, you basically just have Darth Vader without robot parts. Which it sounds like Bay might be going for, actually.

[miru]

When Raph was cast, it already said "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles"

[chrisdude]

No doubt Shrader is an entirely different character. It's probably best that hey didn't name him Shredder.

I would rather they go through with their original plan than to take that plan, pick out the elements that people complained about, and try to make a hodgepodge of the original vision and forced fan service work .

[JT560]

If you change the origin of Superman's backstory to where he was not born on Krypton....

If Batman's parents were never murdered in his backstory....

If the Teenage MUTANT Ninja Turtles were never mutants and instead extraterrestrial to Earth....

I think you guys get the point here. I'm not saying we shouldn't have new approaches/takes to TMNT, but some aspects are probably best kept the same. :o

[Slade]

If you change the origin of Superman's backstory to where he was not born on Krypton....

If Batman's parents were never murdered in his backstory....

If the Teenage MUTANT Ninja Turtles were never mutants and instead extraterrestrial to Earth....

I think you guys get the point here. I'm not saying we shouldn't have new approaches/takes to TMNT, but some aspects are probably best kept the same. :o

I'm with this. I understand subtle changes to origin or overall story. I even like a good bit of else worlds stuff, but those don't make it to the big screen where the entire world(exaggerating, but you get it) see's it.

That's why I'm extremely sure a movie will never be made with John Blake as Batman...

But I'm a pessimist, so the turtles are prolly gunna be aliens

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

I RRREEEEEEAAAAALLLLLLLLLYYYYY hope that they just trashed that entire script and started fresh. Every single iteration of TMNT has had the same basic concept. There have been some slight alterations/added details (Yoshi turning into a rat in the cartoon or the added reincarnation bit from the IDW comics) but overall, they've been fairly consistent since the beginning.

[zodiac brave]

If you take the ninja out of Shredder, you basically just have Darth Vader without robot parts. Which it sounds like Bay might be going for, actually.

how? vader is a fallen knight with clairvoiance. hes the hero's father and a tyrant that rules the galactic empire under an even more powerful and evil emperor.

shredder is a ninja crime-lord that has a vendetta against his old rival splinter/yoshi.

aside from a very generic idea of "evil" and both having interesting helmets, i dont see much of a connection.

[STORMSHADOW__210]

I really don't see them landing on earth in a spacecraft from "planet of the talking turtles ".I just think Bay was just talking and his words were taken out if context. I'm just thrilled that not only do we have a awesome new cartoon series with legos,classic, and nick toy line BUT we have a live action film coming our way! These are good times my tmnt brothers and sisters, lets have a glass is half full approach.:D

[Andrew NDB]

So, this discussion didn't really quite answer my question. Are the Turtles still aliens, or did they get rid of that concept.

I think yes. They've had every opportunity to stamp out that rumor but have only danced around it with "Wellllllll... there's some precident for alien stuff in the Mirage origins for the ooze!" rather than just saying flat out, "No, they're not aliens in the new movie" which would solve the P.R. nightmare right quick.

[shihe]

Oh, I think they'll be aliens from Dimenson X, where everyone is a mutant. And eventually one other mutant will get through, and he'll be the big villain in the movie.

The villain will undoubtly be a bigger-badder-darker version of the Turtles (because that's usually how superhero movies work in Hollywood. The villain is almost always just the same superhero, except beefed up and evil)

[Luigiperps]

If they call them the Teenage Alien Intergalactic Ninja Turtles were in trouble. Then it would really T.A.I.N.T child hoods. Get it?

[Luigiperps]

Oh, I think they'll be aliens from Dimenson X, where everyone is a mutant. And eventually one other mutant will get through, and he'll be the big villain in the movie.

The villain will undoubtly be a bigger-badder-darker version of the Turtles (because that's usually how superhero movies work in Hollywood. The villain is almost always just the same superhero, except beefed up and evil)

So the villan would be slash or the dark turtles, cool?

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

this whole time I been hoping that he was referring to alien origins of the ooze and not the Turtles themselves but, ya'know what?... you never know.
I heard the clip where we was speaking to an audience and he said they will be lifelike and loveable and all that. It sounded like he meant they were aliens but maybe he doesn't know what he's saying. He's a director and producer, not a writer.

Hell... the origins of the Turtles has been played with a lot already. In the original comics and movie, Splinter and the Turtles got into the ooze and he named the Turtles from an old renaissance art book.
In the cartoon, similar story except Splinter IS Hamato Yoshi and turned into a rat because he touched one in the ooze.... or something like that.
In the new IDW stuff, they are reincarnated spirits of Yoshi and his 4 sons in the rat and Turtles that TCRI were experimenting on (based off what I have put together on my incomplete ongoing series and the Secret History of the Foot Clan 4 issues). I guess they got their names as "code names" or something? I haven't heard that issue from IDW but the impression I got kinda made me feel a little sad that the names don't hold the same meaning as Splinter naming his children.

So I mean, there is any number of things that can be done with the characters. I have my preferences from what I grew up with.

[Crabfight]

In the new IDW stuff, they are reincarnated spirits of Yoshi and his 4 sons in the rat and Turtles that TCRI were experimenting on (based off what I have put together on my incomplete ongoing series and the Secret History of the Foot Clan 4 issues). I guess they got their names as "code names" or something? I haven't heard that issue from IDW but the impression I got kinda made me feel a little sad that the names don't hold the same meaning as Splinter naming his children.

April named them before they mutated when she was working in Stockgen. Splinter decided they would keep their new names for their new life. While I LOVE the IDW stuff, this isn't really my favorite aspect of it...

[chrisdude]

I am merely not bothered by the reincarnation jazz. I don't hate it, but it doesn't do anything special for me either. But I'm like IDW Donnie - it doesn't make sense to me, and I denied it for a while, too.

[zak_the_neutrino]

No, the ooze is alien. The turtles will just get covered in it then turning them into the tmnt. That's my true opinion of what will happen. Krang is a alien so im guessing its gonna be from him somehow. I don't think for a second that the turtles themselves will be aliens. I thought this was already cleared up/changed by Bay anyways. I'm just excited for a reboot. Can't wait till next summer!!!

[ironman29758]

April named them before they mutated when she was working in Stockgen. Splinter decided they would keep their new names for their new life. While I LOVE the IDW stuff, this isn't really my favorite aspect of it...

It was a combination of the Hamato Yoshi is Splinter /Hamato Yoshi's pet being Splinter(although I favor Nickelodeon's combination of Mirage's Hamato Yoshi's backstory and Fred Wolf's Hamato Yoshi/Splinter and the replaced miss/possibly Karai with the four soon to be Turtles ) it was pretty good and they really added a eastern element to it/really making them a family. So I like it but the first draft took it a little farther than I would have liked(honestly would rather have IDW or Nickelodeon cartoons origin over the members of an alien turtle race.

[Cipher]

I remain substantially less bothered by this than I do anything we've actually had confirmed about the movie.

I wouldn't care if they were Turtle-styled robots from the future as long as we could have a competent creative team and cast.