Fred Wolf's take on the turtles.

[rufus]

The fred wolf cartoon pretty much went its own way from the comics. Do you think forging it's own identity was a good thing or should it have stayed closer to the material? I kinda like that the series went its own way as standards and practices plus vigilant watchdog groups would have made it a bit harder for action than they did with the actual show.


Do wish the show had stayed the tone of season 1 though.

[CyberCubed]

The Mirage comics were in their infancy back in 1987. The cartoon couldn't take that much from the comics back then as the Mirage universe didn't even have much to use.

I do find it really strange they didn't use the Triceratons in the cartoon right away, or at least by Season 3. You'd think kids would have loved to see triceratops aliens in the show at the beginning.

[gobo]

Turtlemania never would have happened if they kept it closer to Mirage's interpretation.

[Cipher]

Turtlemania never would have happened if they kept it closer to Mirage's interpretation.
I think it might have been even stronger and better remembered had they kept it closer to Fred Wolf's first season, though.

[gobo]

I, personally, would have loved that.

[CyberCubed]

I think it might have been even stronger and better remembered had they kept it closer to Fred Wolf's first season, though.

There weren't many plot-driven cartoons back then. Even Batman: TAS was largely episodic. Back then shows were written in such a way that kids could watch them out of order and it wouldn't make a difference.

When I was a kid I never saw cartoons in their proper order, I just watched whatever random episode they showed. It worked better that way. Nowadays shows are much more plot-driven but I can't imagine being 6 years old and missing eps and wondering what the hell is going on.

[Pterobat]

I think it might have been even stronger and better remembered had they kept it closer to Fred Wolf's first season, though.

The first season is fun but it wasn't perfect or totally serious, and I'd miss the goofier future direction of the Fred Wolf cartoon. It wasn't always *quality* goofiness, but when it was on, it was on, and it's fun to rewatch as an adult.

As to the general question, I'm going to be unimaginative and say that the comics are the comics, and the cartoons are the cartoons. They're not...totally separate entities, but there's no problem with making the cartoon radically different, because it's a different version of the story. It was fun seeing how the 4Kids series and the original comics connected, but it's not "better" because it was more faithful.

[CyberCubed]

I can't imagine what it'd be like if Shredder was defeated at the end of the first season for good. I mean, who would they replace him with? (Hint: We found out 9 seasons later)

Shredder/Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady made the show as much as the Turtles did. Keeping a familiar set of villains worked well.

[Refractive Reflections]

It could have worked if it followed close to Mirage, but I think the show needed a "super villain" that stuck around throughout the series and Shredder and Krang fit that.

[ssjup81]

Turtlemania never would have happened if they kept it closer to Mirage's interpretation.I don't think it would have so much given that it was the 80s. I think if it would've started in the 90s...maybe about '93 when action shows were less slap sticky, then yeah.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

The original movie at least stayed close to the Mirage comic. Of course the Turtles were very well established in the public eye by then.

[chrisdude]

There weren't many plot-driven cartoons back then. Even Batman: TAS was largely episodic. Back then shows were written in such a way that kids could watch them out of order and it wouldn't make a difference.

When I was a kid I never saw cartoons in their proper order, I just watched whatever random episode they showed. It worked better that way. Nowadays shows are much more plot-driven but I can't imagine being 6 years old and missing eps and wondering what the hell is going on.Exactly. Kids don't keep schedules. Now, my six-year-old cousins have all their favorite show's DVR'd.

When I was little, I didn't even know when new episodes of Ninja Turtles (I'm sure I watched it primarily in syndication, as I was born in '87, and somehow missed the Red Sky period) or Power Rangers came on. I just know they were on when I sat in front of the TV. Sometimes I had seen the episode before, and sometimes I hadn't. I bet the only stuff I saw new was Spider-Man and X-Men, because they were Saturday morning.

Plus, as it's been said, there wasn't enough story in the comic for a series.

[billbot85]

I think it might have been even stronger and better remembered had they kept it closer to Fred Wolf's first season, though.

Turtlemania never would have happened if they kept it closer to Mirage's interpretation.

I have to agree with both of you. Had it not been for Fred Wolfe's Ninja Turtles, the craze wouldn't have exploded the way it did back in the day. Even if the cartoon was originally for the purpose of selling the Playmates toys, it became so much bigger with that. By 1989/1990, Ninja Turtles were everywhere and on everything considered merchandise, as well as spawning 3 films. It'd what got me into them, and I'm sure most of the Dromers here.

And yes, I feel the series would've been even better if it stuck to the darker, more serious tone of Season 1.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Most kids would probably not care, since they didn't used to read Mirage, just Archie.

[Prowler]

I have to agree with both of you. Had it not been for Fred Wolfe's Ninja Turtles, the craze wouldn't have exploded the way it did back in the day. Even if the cartoon was originally for the purpose of selling the Playmates toys, it became so much bigger with that. By 1989/1990, Ninja Turtles were everywhere and on everything considered merchandise, as well as spawning 3 films. It'd what got me into them, and I'm sure most of the Dromers here.

And yes, I feel the series would've been even better if it stuck to the darker, more serious tone of Season 1.

Season 1 was not darker nor more serious than any other season in the show.

The "darker" seasons were the Red Sky ones.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Season 1 was not darker nor more serious than any other season in the show.

The "darker" seasons were the Red Sky ones.

I think people tend to remember it as being more serious because it had an overall story arc in those first five episodes. Plus Shredder still seemed like a credible threat because he wasn't constantly being defeated yet.

I'm glad the cartoon series did its own thing. It actually makes the movie version that much cooler, because when you were young and only knew about the cartoon show, the live action movie introduced you to the idea of a darker Turtles storyline. If the cartoon had followed the comics more closely as well, the movie wouldn't have been as special.

[alliance]

what about parent groups?? had they went with a darker tone or more serious or whatever do u think they would've been lynched since they were already after them and that's the funny 'goofy' turtles we had..

[Cipher]

what about parent groups?? had they went with a darker tone or more serious or whatever do u think they would've been lynched since they were already after them and that's the funny 'goofy' turtles we had..
I don't think it's a "darkness" thing. The first season isn't particularly dark or complicated. Its episodes also hold up as one-offs, despite playing into a larger plot, so I don't think being too serialized would be a concern.

When I say the series might have been more successful for having stuck closer to season one, I say that in the sense that season one is how most people actually remember the show. It's genuinely funny and has great action as well. It seems like several shocks most people encounter upon revisiting episodes are that 1) they're not all that funny, consistently, 2) they're incredibly repetitive, and 3) the action almost disappears.

Had they kept a little closer in structure and tone to season one while still introducing all the fun, iconic Playmates characters later seasons did, I can only think it would have given the show an even bigger following and stronger legacy.

Of course, that may have interfered with trying to get new episodes on air every weekday, and who knows? Maybe that was more key to their success (or capitalizing upon the initial success) than anything else.

[CyberCubed]

I don't think it's a "darkness" thing. The first season isn't particularly dark or complicated. Its episodes also hold up as one-offs, despite playing into a larger plot, so I don't think being too serialized would be a concern.

When I say the series might have been more successful for having stuck closer to season one, I say that in the sense that season one is how most people actually remember the show. It's genuinely funny and has great action as well. It seems like several shocks most people encounter upon revisiting episodes are that 1) they're not all that funny, consistently, 2) they're incredibly repetitive, and 3) the action almost disappears.

Had they kept a little closer in structure and tone to season one while still introducing all the fun, iconic Playmates characters later seasons did, I can only think it would have given the show an even bigger following and stronger legacy.

Of course, that may have interfered with trying to get new episodes on air every weekday, and who knows? Maybe that was more key to their success (or capitalizing upon the initial success) than anything else.

Wait, what? Season 3 is generally the iconic season that people remember the most when talking about the old show.

Season 1 might be the most liked, but Season 3 was rerun to death and all the most important characters are introduced in it.

Also I wouldn't say the action disappears. There are some episodes with no fighting at all, but there are plenty around them with plenty of action.

[Donatello19]

I used to be a huge fan of the OT, and I still am for nostalgic reasons...but comparing it to the 4Kids series or the Nick series, it's pretty bad. Sure the characters, humor and whatnot were good, but the story lines and "fight scenes" (after the first two seasons at least) are really just too cheesy.

[Galactus]

I don't think there was much to adapt baring in mind the Mirage comic was barely in double digits when the animated series premiered and if you think of where they were up to when the series started production they probably didn't have much to work with.

A lot of the Mirage stuff from those early comics is in there. The rooftop battle, Mousers, a brain-like alien, a portal to another dimension.

In fact I think they could have well have had even more Mirage stuff without much change. Instead of rock soldiers you could have had Triceratons or Kirby-inspired monsters and Splinter could have been Yoshi's rat as opposed to Yoshi himself and I don't think it would have made much difference to how popular it ended up.

One factor strikes me is that given the first season was essentialy a very short mini-series David Wise chose to tie a lot of the elements in together to tell a finite story. If they'd had a more standard season run then he might have had Baxter as his own villain like the comics and a TCRI episode or Shredder and Krang as seperate unconnected villains etc.

[CyberCubed]

I used to be a huge fan of the OT, and I still am for nostalgic reasons...but comparing it to the 4Kids series or the Nick series, it's pretty bad. Sure the characters, humor and whatnot were good, but the story lines and "fight scenes" (after the first two seasons at least) are really just too cheesy.

I think the silly sci-if plots of the show is what makes it still interesting. The show is repetitive yet the plots of each ep are diverse enough to be entertaining.

[Coola Yagami]

One factor strikes me is that given the first season was essentialy a very short mini-series David Wise chose to tie a lot of the elements in together to tell a finite story. If they'd had a more standard season run then he might have had Baxter as his own villain like the comics and a TCRI episode or Shredder and Krang as seperate unconnected villains etc.

You bring a valid point. If they knew beforehand this would take off, the ending would have been more open ended... and of course we would have had more than five episodes.

[TheBlueTurtle1]

I have to agree with both of you. Had it not been for Fred Wolfe's Ninja Turtles, the craze wouldn't have exploded the way it did back in the day. Even if the cartoon was originally for the purpose of selling the Playmates toys, it became so much bigger with that. By 1989/1990, Ninja Turtles were everywhere and on everything considered merchandise, as well as spawning 3 films. It'd what got me into them, and I'm sure most of the Dromers here.

And yes, I feel the series would've been even better if it stuck to the darker, more serious tone of Season 1.

100% agree with this, season 2 was a little more darker in tone as well, but after that the show is like a TV advert for toys. Still love it tho.

[Konchadunga]

My guess is that if they tried to follow the Mirage series more closely, they wouldn't have succeeded too well. Moral guardians would have condemned a show where the first episode has the turtles killing a man in nothing but someone else's revenge scheme, but even if they toned that down to something less violent and immoral, they'd still have the problem of a chief antagonist leaving the show in the first story; giving kids one less thing to latch onto. Then there's other bits that are also too violent, and some arcs that might have required a long attention span. Given that even use of actual martial arts seemed taboo after a short time, I can't imagine they'd do very well adapting stories built upon it--even in the more faithful 2003 show, City at War is pretty bastardized.

[Galactus]

^^^

I don't think anyone is talking about adapting the comics to that level but rather what if they used the TCRI building instead of or as well as the Techodrome and Utroms instead of/as well as Krang etc.

Even the first issue could work with Splinter tasking the turtles to "bring Shredder to justice" in the sense of sending him to jail or some other comeuppance as opposed to outright killing him.

[pingclang]

A show based on the comics would be awesome, but I agree with pretty much everyone else, if they had kept it more like season 1 and 2, it would have been better. Granted, I still adore the cartoon. It's my childhood and even if some of it is wacky it's just fun to watch. I think they should do like Marvel and DC and do a straight to dvd movie about the Mirage Turtles, it could be good.