A fan base more divided than Ninja Turtle fans?

[CansecoBat]

It seems to me, and I'm having a hard time coming up with one ... of a fan base more divided on the strength of preference of the source material

For Ninja Turtle fans, it seems to be decisively divided between the Mirage and Original Toon.

None of the other fan bases that I can think of seem to be as torn. You'll never hear a strong faction in the Batman fan base demanding the character be taken in the campy root of the 60's route, as opposed to the dark, brooding, and serious take on the character.

[Darth Knuckles]

I'm a huge fan of a lot of different things and I do think Sonic the Hedgehog fans in some cases can be more divided about certain aspects of their property than TMNT fans.

In my case I love the Classic Sonic games and the Sonic Archie Comics but really don't like the Modern Sonic games at all. (except Sonic Adventure and Sonic's levels in Sonic Adventure 2) Admittedly I haven't yet played Sonic Colors so I can't rate that game just yet. I really dislike Shadow, Blaze, Cream, and any new character SEGA has thought of since 1998 and beyond.

I personally don't have any other love-hate relationship as strong as I do with SEGA concerning the blue blur. So I submit the Sonic the Hedgehog series fans as possibly being more divided about their property than TMNT fans.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

I have seen a couple of your comments... I dont quite get you.

To humor you,
There are some people who do want to see the Camp Batman again. I have talked to a few myself. Many of them are stuck in the 60s Batman thinking that this whole "dark thing" isn't him.

As for the TMNT, we're divided so much because of those of us who were raised on the cartoons since we were kids and those of us who were old enough to read the comics.
Right now IDW's origin story is different again... yet I can't complain about any of it. I like them all. Makes no difference if Splinter is Yoshi or is the mutated pet rat... or, currently, the reincarnated spirit of Yoshi...
It's all good and the stories are still told well enough none of it hurts the characters or legacy.

[Shark_Blade]

I was in a tomb raider forum and they have divided fanbase too. Segregation happens everywhere in forums maybe, but it's all in union on tumblr.

It's just depends where you look. Personally I like most reincarnations, all the toons, etc.

[Walkabout]

Guns N Roses fans are pretty divided.

[Wildcat]

Ghostbusters fans are definitely divided. There are those who really want part 3 or even a TV show (Im with this) and then there are those who make it out to be untouchable even going as far as saying the only reason it worked was because of the original group. Like the idea of catching ghosts and weapons is secondary...thats ridiculous.

Im a huge Sonic fan but I dont see a big divide in fans. Some complain about the 3D games but for the most part it seems pretty even. Unless youre a casual fan I guess. Review sites seem totally biased against any post-Adventure Sonic game.

[Leo656]

Guns N Roses fans are pretty divided.

Nailed It. And Good Lawd, don't get me started... :lol:

Sonic fans are pretty divided between strict game canon fans and fans of SatAM/Archie, that's for sure.

Right now a lot of DC fans are pretty split about the New 52. Again, don't get me started...

[Shark_Blade]

Ha, New 52.. I'm fine with most of their reboots but their new Super Girl...


http://i.imgur.com/Nj01q.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QxmdU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YmXLA.jpg


Old outfit:

http://i.imgur.com/aRcDy.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl_%28Kara_Zor-El%29#The_New_52

Seriously? What were they thinking?
Lucky we don't have this kinda thing in tmnt.

[HeroTurtlesFan]

Is the OP kidding? Man, if he thinks things round here are divided... go check out a Star Wars forum (Prequel trilogy fans vs Original Trilogy fans vs Expanded Universe fans vs those that like it alL0.

Even better - go to a Transformers forum. There have been well over ten different iterations of the franchise in the US alone (many more if you count Japanese etc) and, though its a vocal minority, you get some pretty decisive battlelines being drawn up there.

It used to be between the "G1ers" and Beast Wars fans (the phrase 'trukk not munky' summarised it well) but now it's more often between "Movie Fans" and "Everyone else".

[ToTheNines]

Ghostbusters fans are definitely divided. There are those who really want part 3 or even a TV show (Im with this) and then there are those who make it out to be untouchable even going as far as saying the only reason it worked was because of the original group. Like the idea of catching ghosts and weapons is secondary...thats ridiculous.

I think Ghosbusters will only work if set in the same universe. So a new cast of characters would be fine, but they'd have to be the successors of the originals.

If they ever reboot GB, no one will like it.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Pretty much any fandom you go to is going to have a lot of dissenting fans that create different 'divisions' in it. That's just the way fandom works in general, really.

I've heard the Star Wars fandom is one of the worst, but since I'm only lukewarm about any of the movies, I don't have first hand experience with that one. One of the worst at times to me though is the anime/manga fandom as a whole. Good god, that can be hell on Earth to be a part of sometimes. More specifically from there, the DBZ fandom will really leave you wanting to pound your head into a wall until you can't think straight anymore; it's the only thing preventing you from doing the same to someone else's.

Now, I'm so used to those two fandoms being a pain though, that I was actually kind of surprised when I popped in here for the first time so long ago. It had never occurred to me that TMNT would be subject to such wild and varying opinions at first. This led me to learn that first fact I mentioned - fandoms are just always gonna be messy.

[ticktack]

Maybe batman was able to evolute through years, while the 2003 series' interpretation felt to appear sudden, (maybe immediately). To ones that only followed the TV shows and think to be familiar with "ninja turtles" before 00's.

This thread creator, do you wanted us to bring an example of more divided fanbases than the Ninja Turtles?

[ryukenden]

There are a lot of broken bases in just about every franchise. Fans are divided between the 1980s and the 2000s versions of He-Man and Thundercats. Subs vs Dubs in Anime. Power Rangers and its source material, Super Sentai. The list goes on.

[Andrew NDB]

I've never, ever encountered a more divisive and volatile fandom than with TMNT.

[Tazi]

None of the other fan bases that I can think of seem to be as torn. You'll never hear a strong faction in the Batman fan base demanding the character be taken in the campy root of the 60's route, as opposed to the dark, brooding, and serious take on the character.
Where did you get that info from? They're running a 60's style Batman series at DC right now, and it's titled as "Batman '66".
http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/comic-covers/2013/06/BATMAN%20%2766%20%231%20CoverLR.jpg

[CyberCubed]

People really think the TMNT fanbase is divided? From what I've seen most people here watched an enjoyed all 3 cartoons, most of the movies and get into the comics if they can. People have preferences to what was better, sure, but that's it.

I don't think you know what a divided fanbase truly is.

[MikeandRaph87]

Its because there are so many incarnations of the property in under three decades. Most have had decent popularity and that is where we decide what we like best and our views clash. If it was not for this site I would not have known of the Mirage purist. They tend to gravity hear and have thier small group sound louder than it is. Another group is the devoted fans of the '87 cartoon who see it as the best. There is a truth in some like for nostalgia or because it was out there and still has related products think of it as Ninja Turtles. However, weeding out the large group of fans of the cartoon it still outnumbers any Mirage purist many times over. Now we have people who grew up with the '03 cartoon as it settles into the rearview mirror and now kids are taking to Nickelodeon's own version! If it was just one or two versions this would not be the case but the fact the fanbase reacts this way proves the adapatability and success of the franchise. Look at Spider-Man going through 5 cartoons in under two decades! I still see Spider-Man through the lenses of the animated series and three movies aside from Electro and Hobgoblni origins. There are many more cases than just TMNT and Spider-Man as another cited examples like Transformers,Muppets,etc. Heck, even long lastings shows from Power Rangers to Saturday Night Live has this problem. For better or worse it is probably a good thing because it shows the great interest and longevity of a program or property.

[Leo656]

I'm with Andrew, actually. Others are bad but TMNT is by far "the worst".

It all comes down to how wildly different each version of TMNT is, each one has its fans and detractors, and yes, all that is normal in any fandom. BUT, Some people think TMNT is a dark and gritty action story about ninjas and others feel it's just a balls-out, batsh*t-crazy anything-goes kinda thing that shouldn't be taken seriously at all. That schism is the root of it, and although there are a lot of people who are "in between", the fact that the most well-known version of the property is directly at odds with "the source material" as far as tone and characterization, means there will NEVER be a clear consensus on what TMNT is, what it's supposed to be, and what is and is not "Okay" for the property.

That's why tiny little disagreements become "your version sucks, my version is better" all the time. There's no "right" answer, but the "purists" are always going to believe they are right and that the other fans don't treat the property with the respect and seriousness they think it deserves, and the "it's all just for laughs" people are going to think they're right and the other side takes things too seriously.

The more new comics, shows, movies and offshoots that contradict each other, it can only get worse. That's what scares me.

[Cipher]

Transformers is far and above the most awful one I've encountered. A fanbase so childish and divided its own (ridiculously excellent and professional) Wiki regularly dedicates (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER) efforts (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Trukk_not_munky) toward (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/GEEWUN) mocking it (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Fandom).

Also, for a group so niche as to revolve around twenty-eight films and a small bit of ancillary material, the Godzilla fanbase is stupidly vitriolic.

Say what you will about TMNT -- its history certainly runs the gamut, so I understand fans disagreeing with each other over certain portrayals. But by and large, I've found it to be pretty great, and we regularly get civil interaction with the professional talent. The two mentioned above are just godawful.

[BabyTurtles]

Ha, New 52.. I'm fine with most of their reboots but their new Super Girl...


http://i.imgur.com/Nj01q.jpg


Seriously? What were they thinking?
Lucky we don't have this kinda thing in tmnt.

wow....that outfit looks weird....
I like the skirt one better.....and I'm not too keen on superhero girls fighting in skirts XD unless they have leggings underneath :3

[Avatar Yuffie]

Actually, the TMNT fandom is surprisingly rather tame. I say this frankly and no sarcasm whatsoever. Compare it to the Avatar the Last Airbender/Legend of Korra fandom (as they're both Nick toons). It's also not as obnoxious and divided as the Final Fantasy or the Gundam series fanbase that's for sure.

So yeah, props to you guys.

[Walkabout]

Robotech/Macross fanbase is pretty divided too.

I could never go back to Robotech, but I don't see the reason to HATE other people who enjoy it (even though it is horrid)

[RaphAndDonnie]

Really the TMNT fandom isn't the most divided I've seen. It's actually one of the mild ones! Compare this, to say, the My Little Pony fandom. Everyone's divided on almost everything.
You have the old-school fans who don't like FIM, the people who thought the show stopped being good after season two, the people who'll defend season three with a passion, the people who like Alicorn!Twilight and the people who don't. And don't even get me started on the different ways people interpret background characters and their headcanons for them.

[Ryanator008]

Look at Darkspyro. There are the people that like only the classic games, and hate all users that don't agree with them (plus they talk as if Spyro is real, which is... creepy), and there are the new fans, who just enjoy the games and have fun.

[HeroTurtlesFan]

I've never, ever encountered a more divisive and volatile fandom than with TMNT.

Then you haven't been to many other fandoms! Volatile? Good grief, just go check out some Star Wars forums...

Actually, the TMNT fandom is surprisingly rather tame. I say this frankly and no sarcasm whatsoever.

100% agreed.

Really the TMNT fandom isn't the most divided I've seen. It's actually one of the mild ones!

Yep. And it's nice. I come here for a break from the crazy fans... !!

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah, what is with the "crotch plate"? It would seem like it would go all the way around. Those boots look odd with the straps over the knee! I do not know if DC os trying to go with sex appeal or what with that design. People need to remember she is roughly 16 unless we are talking college age Linda Davers so she is a minor at that.

[voltron80]

All I'm going to say The Amazing Spider-Man issue #700 and Superior Spider-Man. People either love the direction or hate the direction with enough passion they're sending death threats.

[Leo656]

Yeah, what is with the "crotch plate"? It would seem like it would go all the way around. Those boots look odd with the straps over the knee! I do not know if DC os trying to go with sex appeal or what with that design. People need to remember she is roughly 16 unless we are talking college age Linda Davers so she is a minor at that.

An essential part of the "fresh, new, exciting and oh-so-brilliant" DC New 52 has been the "slutting-up" of all the female characters. Because it's modern, you see.

The entire line has been garbage since the revamp. It's depressing.

[ZariusTwo]

All I'm going to say The Amazing Spider-Man issue #700 and Superior Spider-Man. People either love the direction or hate the direction with enough passion they're sending death threats.

And before that, the divisive argument was whether fans liked Spidey being married or being single in a reality created by a rather dubious deal with the devil. Whatever one thinks of the book now, Superior can really only be universally credited for stopping the immense sales bleeding of the character since that wretched story.

[Powder]

We may not all get along as well as some fandoms do (Do any really, though?) but I think we're way less divided than many others.

[plastroncafe]

Really? TMNT is the worst you guys have seen?
Man, you need to get out into fandom more, kids.

[Leo656]

If that's true, then no, we really, really don't. Ever.

[Candy Kappa]

and I'm not too keen on superhero girls fighting in skirts X3

Or are a underage girl with the ability to fly...

[MikeandRaph87]

An essential part of the "fresh, new, exciting and oh-so-brilliant" DC New 52 has been the "slutting-up" of all the female characters. Because it's modern, you see.

The entire line has been garbage since the revamp. It's depressing.

Too true. I am at the point the one thing I got out of this can just disappear. Gail Simone and Batgirl is a match made in heaven...or atleast it was for 14 issues. In my opinion and I don't know how widely it is shared but, the reboot has caused DC to not know how to effective write for female characters. If that improves we can gain a stronger female audience and the one woman on female character book has got me scratching my head with the seneseless violence.

I get the stomache showing shirts can be acceptable to a point and be sexy while still underaged but she needs the shirt. I never seen such strange pants/undies/"crotch plate".

[Candy Kappa]

New 52 totally ruined He-Man. He now have pants.

[Leo656]

:lol: I only got to read a couple issues of DC's He-Man books so far and am waiting to read the complete stories before I judge them. I've heard mixed things, but I liked most of what I read, which admittedly isn't much.

MikeandRaph87: The pointlessly revamped - and ugly - costumes are another thing I haven't been pleased with. Across the board, they're all pretty... ugh. Batman's is probably the best and that's just because nobody wants to mess with him too much and thus his is pretty much the same. His suit always changed a little bit anyway, depending on who was drawing him.

But I don't care for most of the costume changes. Seems like the artists were given three instructions: "1: Armor. 2: Seam lines. 3: Chicks have to get as close to nekkid as possible. Aaaand GO!"

[Redeemer]

Ha, New 52.. I'm fine with most of their reboots but their new Super Girl...


http://i.imgur.com/Nj01q.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QxmdU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YmXLA.jpg


Old outfit:

http://i.imgur.com/aRcDy.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl_%28Kara_Zor-El%29#The_New_52

Seriously? What were they thinking?
Lucky we don't have this kinda thing in tmnt.

I actually like the new super girl outfit except for the glaring fact that you can basically see her midsection croch what ever you wanna call it

Just add some short shorts on the design and that be a pretty kickn design.

[Leo656]

Nah, those "exposed-knee" boots are the sh*ts.

[BabyTurtles]

Or are a underage girl with the ability to fly...

but come on! who in their right mind would wear a mini skirt to battle!?? to distract all the bad guys?? XD

[Leo656]

I'd probably fall for it. :lol: Some people are very easily distracted.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, the vagina protector on New 52 Supergirl is almost as weird as the knee business. It's just a sh*t design. DC needs to start letting actual costume designers design some cool costumes... not just lock Jim Lee in a room to do it.

[blindturtle02]

I think you can find this type of thing in every fandom. I've tried to join a few SW forums since I'm also an avid Star Wars fan. You get allot of folks pouncing on you whether or not you like the original trilogy or prequels. All that stuff. I think differences in opinion should be welcome no matter where you go on the Net, but I doubt that'll ever happen. I love it when I come across more mature individuals who may not share the same views, but who choose to listen to and respect other views regardless. I think everyone has a right to be heard. But I think a person can go entirely too far when they choose to bully others just because they may not enjoy a particular toon, comic, etc. Differences in opinion/perspective can actually cause a person to appreciate any franchise in an entirely new way if one takes the time to listen and learn. It's cool if there are varying viewpoints. I think they all fit together into one heck of a tapestry, if that makes sense.

[miru]

Doctor Who, Sonic, Transformers, Fallout, Spyro, Zelda, and SpongeBob

[Technogeek29]

Yeah, the vagina protector on New 52 Supergirl is almost as weird as the knee business. It's just a sh*t design. DC needs to start letting actual costume designers design some cool costumes... not just lock Jim Lee in a room to do it.

And for the love of God please get rid of the Color red on most of DC's heroes. Seriously The color red is every where. I don't mind Nightwing but personally would've left it Blue or change it to Purple.

[BubblyShell22]

There are a lot of fandoms that have feuds about certain things. You have the Twilight fandom with Team Edward vs. Team Jacob, the Harry Potter fandom with the whole Harry/Hermione vs. Ron/Hermione feud (though I think that's died down from what it used to be), The Hunger Games with Team Peeta vs. Team Gale, and that's all I can think of. But, yeah, TMNT is divided sometimes though I think what really mars it is the whole "Which series do you like better?" type questions we've been getting lately. That just bugs me to no end.

[BabyTurtles]

I'd probably fall for it. :lol: Some people are very easily distracted.

are you trying to say wearing a mini skirt is actually helpful?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5qfczfK8F1qbaj4uo1_500.gif

[Leo656]

That's creepy. Stop it.

And it totally depends who you're fighting, naturally... I'm not making this up, the entire "Dead Or Alive" game franchise is based on that very logic!

[BabyTurtles]

That's creepy. Stop it.

And it totally depends who you're fighting, naturally... I'm not making this up, the entire "Dead Or Alive" game franchise is based on that very logic!

didn't know what dead or alive was XD google imaged it.....

girls in bikinis?? lolz XD

[Leo656]

You don't even know the half of it. :lol: YouTube has some of the official TV commercials for the games. Seemingly the entire franchise is built around the concept that, yes, mini-skirts make you an unstoppable female warrior.

It got turned into a movie starring Kevin Nash and Jamie Pressley, so who am I to argue with that kind of logic? Mini-skirts + split-jumps and high-kicks = $$$

[blindturtle02]

Now that's interesting. Never thought of it that way Leo and Babyturtles.

"Now, miniskirt whering hero girl! While he's distracted! Get his pin number! Woohoo!" Yeah they could do that as well as beat the stuffing out of people, I guess. But would that work on Daredevil?

[BabyTurtles]

You don't even know the half of it. :lol: YouTube has some of the official TV commercials for the games. Seemingly the entire franchise is built around the concept that, yes, mini-skirts make you an unstoppable female warrior.

It got turned into a movie starring Kevin Nash and Jamie Pressley, so who am I to argue with that kind of logic?

not fair!! if guys get a game with fighting bikini chicks, then I want t game with guys fighting in only tuxedoes >:U

[blindturtle02]

not fair!! if guys get a game with fighting bikini chicks, then I want t game with guys fighting in only tuxedoes >:U

Give em a couple years. Someone'll release it eventually.

[Leo656]

But would that work on Daredevil?

:lol: I'm tempted to say "echo location", but that would only work if he only fought porn starlets. Plus, that's just offensively vulgar.

And I'm sure the as-yet-untapped Tuxedo Fighting Game market has been held back by the quandary of what percentage of fighters get bow ties, how many get top hats, and how many get both. Also, cummerbunds and wingtips are apparently harder to consistently animate than leopard-print thong bikinis. I'm sure they're working on it.

[MikeandRaph87]

Leo, I am actualy disappointed in the new 52 Batman direction. I loved everything from R.I.P. to the Batman INC bookend with Leviathian. Greeen Lantern was low until the marriage of Hal and Sinestro going back to the way it should back in February and now is interesting even if Relic is half-Krona/half-first Lantern.It makes me love IDW and Superior much more if its any constellation. I wonder when the lobng talk about Multiversity starring Blue & Gold will come out?


Some times pants make all the difference. Look at Tim's first Robin costume a simple armor upgrade with full pants. Wonder why Jerry Robin put the green shorts on him for.

Andrew,I realize we disagree more than anyone but could you post an example of a costume design you want to see? I think we would agree.

[Avatar Yuffie]

not fair!! if guys get a game with fighting bikini chicks, then I want t game with guys fighting in only tuxedoes >:U

Tuxedos? Hell no.

Give guys battle bikini briefs like FFXIV.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/8ff3490904870fa14d69b2d1aa06e80b/tumblr_msw20pQs7O1qkiv94o3_250.gif

Oh yeah. Who cares if it doesn't look like practical armor in an adventure game?

Seriously though, I wouldn't mind the fan service so much as long as the game gives candies to the girl players too.

[CyberCubed]

Really? TMNT is the worst you guys have seen?
Man, you need to get out into fandom more, kids.

Haha, I agree. The TMNT fandom is the most tame fandom I've ever been a part of.

You guys should see the Pokemon fandom, with the whiny nostalgics complaining everytime a new gen begins and how much they hate the new Pokemon designs.

And then you have those whiny Misty fans who, after an entire decade, are still sitting there butt-hurt over Misty leaving the anime. Despite Misty not being an important character to the show or games in the slightest...

[snake]

Star wars. PT Fans and OT fans are mortal enemies.

[Cipher]

Re: New 52 costumes.

I actually don't have a problem with most of them and think the gripes have been overstated.

That said, Supergirl's has to be among the worst -- the worst -- superhero costumes of all time. I can't even look at it, because it looks like she's wearing no pants and just has some sort of ... I guess vagina-protector is the best term ... strapped from her ass to her front. It's shockingly bad. Give her some damn shorts.

[blindturtle02]

Star wars. PT Fans and OT fans are mortal enemies.

lol what about fans of the entire saga? I like both trilogies! Still don't know where I fit into the mix.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

"The only question, I ever thought was hard, was do I like Kirk, or do I like Picard?"

There are a lot of video game fan bases that are pretty divided. Scrolling through TV Tropes for examples. Like Legend of Zelda. Some people hate Zelda II because it's so different from the rest, but that's why others (like me) enjoy it. The fact that it stands out because there was no "standard" Zelda game at the time makes it cool.

I think DC Comics was much better before the New 52. If DC wanted to improve sales, they could have, I don't know, actually tried to market to people outside the normal comic buying circles. This didn't require a reboot. Batman and Superman are established characters, people know their origins well. I could see new readers warming up to Stephanie Brown Batgirl pretty easily. That series was the best thing DC had in years. Her relationships with Kara and Damien were a lot of fun to read.

As far as Supergirl designs go, I thought the pre-new 52 costume was alright. Not when Kara first returned, because it was all way too short, but later artists drew it so that the skirt was longer and I thought it looked better.

[Leo656]

I like your style, brother.

Kirk or Picard? Well, Kirk didn't solve all his problems by talking at them, he did it with his fists - and on green-skinned alien chicks, with his penis! So it's pretty obvious which Captain was superior. I never understood why this was even a debate. Sometimes, there IS no debate. :P

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm with Andrew, actually. Others are bad but TMNT is by far "the worst".

It all comes down to how wildly different each version of TMNT is, each one has its fans and detractors, and yes, all that is normal in any fandom. BUT, Some people think TMNT is a dark and gritty action story about ninjas and others feel it's just a balls-out, batsh*t-crazy anything-goes kinda thing that shouldn't be taken seriously at all. That schism is the root of it, and although there are a lot of people who are "in between", the fact that the most well-known version of the property is directly at odds with "the source material" as far as tone and characterization, means there will NEVER be a clear consensus on what TMNT is, what it's supposed to be, and what is and is not "Okay" for the property.

That's why tiny little disagreements become "your version sucks, my version is better" all the time. There's no "right" answer, but the "purists" are always going to believe they are right and that the other fans don't treat the property with the respect and seriousness they think it deserves, and the "it's all just for laughs" people are going to think they're right and the other side takes things too seriously.

The more new comics, shows, movies and offshoots that contradict each other, it can only get worse. That's what scares me.

LOL! You guys thing THIS franchise is bad?! You should check out any forums involving WotC's D&D/Forgotten Realms properties. Over the last 4.5(and soon to be 5) editions of the game, not to mention all the novels, sourcebooks, etc for the FR shared world, the fans of Faerun and the D&D multiverse in general make us TMNT fans look like a bunch of pussycats. Seriously. The past edition ALONE divided fans along pro/con lines for or against it, and this is in addition to all the fans who were ALREADY spouting rhetoric for their own particular preferred edition. Many long-time fans actually got so fed up they switched over to the more player-friendly Pathfinder world. No joke- fans left the franchise IN DROVES. Here's the short version:

First, we have "Old School" fans of the "Old Grey Box" (or the original Forgotten Realms game material and the related novels from that time period WAAY back in the late seventies and early eighties), and 2nd ed fans of AD&D, and also the fans of the later 3rd edition revamp (though admittedly minor) of the rules and the game/novel world (A la the Time of Troubles storyline and related tales) and when 4th ed came out there was this REALLY nasty edition war with the COMPLETE rewrite of both rules/world and the resulting furor over changes not only to kingdoms and a 100 year time jump (thus killing off the majority of long-running popular characters) but a MASH-UP OF TWO SEPERATE WORLDS INTO ONE! Yes, we ended up with a "worlds collide" scenario that utterly changed the entire game/novel world into something many fans found unrecognizable.

And now, Hasbro/WotC is set to release a NEW edition (yeah, the last one has only lasted about four years, and since then has proven far less popular than was hoped- go figure....) dubbed "D&D Next". Time will tell how that goes, but the company has decided to take the property back to its "roots" to appease many of the fans of older editions who were so incensed by the last and most glaringly across-the-board changes (and we're talking about ret-conning out over HALF of their most popular characters and regions!) and hopefully win back the fans' trust. How are they doing it? With yet ANOTHER RSE(that's a Realms-Shattering-Event for those unfamiliar with such terminology) that undoes most of what was done with the current edition (including UN-killing about half of the world's gods-most of which were wiped out during the 4th ed purge that left so many fans up in arms).

And THIS franchise is bad? PLEASE. We're pretty tame around here compared to some of the rabid FR fans out there....

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I heard that WOTC made a lot of changes in 4E to try to appeal to the World of Warcraft crowd. Would you say that's true?

Lately they've been reprinting old D and D books. Almost as if to say, "we're sorry.":)

[turtle1237]

Ha, New 52.. I'm fine with most of their reboots but their new Super Girl...


http://i.imgur.com/Nj01q.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QxmdU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YmXLA.jpg


Old outfit:

http://i.imgur.com/aRcDy.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl_%28Kara_Zor-El%29#The_New_52

Seriously? What were they thinking?
Lucky we don't have this kinda thing in tmnt.

And there is a reason why
supergirl should wear a skirt
That looks bad, I know there trying to add Superman's red Underwear into Supergirl's outfit, but that just looks bad.

[Candy Kappa]

Over the last 4.5(and soon to be 5) editions of the game.
Well... There's more then 5 editions of D&D, with Next it's gonna be 11, or 12 with Essentials as a separate unit.

And that is why Next is not labeled 5th edition, cause it's a homage to all editions.

I heard that WOTC made a lot of changes in 4E to try to appeal to the World of Warcraft crowd. Would you say that's true?

Lately they've been reprinting old D and D books. Almost as if to say, "we're sorry.":)

To say it was made to appeal to the WOW crowd is kinda silly, it's broader then that, to appeal to all casuals that isn't used to previous editions of D&D.

4th edition is greatly streamlined and due to more actions to do in combat and the 4e rule-set combat is a heavier part of the game and classes are heavily balanced. No classes are no longer extremely under powered or overpowered as in previous editions. (Take out the role-playing part and you get a miniature wargame, which is a thing: Dungeon Command)

Example: A wizard was likely to die very early at low levels, but became god-king of awesome at higher levels. While a fighter is very good at low levels but becomes weaker and very very boring to play at higher levels

Printing the old books started with (ofc) AD&D 1st edition as the money are going to raise a statue of Gary Gygax. And it just escalated from that, which I am very glad with as I absolutely love the look of the books.

[Prowler]

Anime/manga fandom is pretty damn divided. So is the Metal fanbase. And dont' even get me started on the Internet Wrestling Community...

I don't think the TMNT fandom is that bad, to be honest. I do wish some people were more open minded and not be quick to dismiss a different version of the TMNT. I'm mostly referring to people who grew up watching one of the cartoons and then hate on the next one just for being different compared to the version they grew up with. And the thing is, they don't even care if it's good or not, they'll still disregard it just because "this isn't the turtles I grew up with!"

[BubblyShell22]

Ah, yes, I forgot about the wrestling community. There's a lot of division among that fandom believe it or not.

[CyberCubed]

This fandom isn't that divided. You're talking about the people who just watched TMNT as a passing fad and never got back into it.

[Prowler]

This fandom isn't that divided. You're talking about the people who just watched TMNT as a passing fad and never got back into it.
In case you're referring to my post, some people I've talked to with that kind of mentality still like the FW series and the first 3 live action movies. Sure it's more nostalgia than anything but a fan is a fan nevertheless.

Ironically they dislike the newer cartoon versions for being different but still like the 90s live action movies even though they were quite different form the FW series.

[Michelangelo]

Even the different comic series have fans divided. Vol 3 by Image got bumped from the main cannon but it was certainly different and took risks. Thankfully we are able to enjoy whatever we like from the TMNT history, and the type of fan one is should be based upon their own experience and feelings. I don't know what 'type' I'd be as a TMNT fan, but I pretty much like all TMNT stuff. Even though I love the original movie I'm really hoping the new one will be better. I just think that there is always room to improve upon things that have been done, whether it takes 20yrs or forever.

[pannoni1]

The Nick show and IDW series IMO is doing a good job to keep or even close the fandom gap and is the reason for the current success, and I feel that it will continue with the third movie after watching a recent Con panel with E&L, Michael Bay, the Turtle Doc, and the fact that the first movie will be re-released with outtakes. I feel that the biggest gap is simply generational, with the urge to stay in the comfort zone to keep the classic and not try the new. Its important to stay informed so you don't get left behind. IMO the biggest divide in the fandom's history was back in the late '80s after the OT started but before the first movie was released, though that was likely forced by a small Mirage fanbase being annoyed at a much larger OT fanbase. To a lesser degree this occured with the 4kids series who preferred the OT, but this has never been a significant problem for the franchise, and even in the early days it was still during the brands' fledging phase.

[Davetello]

From what I have read on here and on other internet sites I wouldn't particularly consider the turtles fanbase divided. Some aspects and universes can be argued to be divisive but from what i have seen the majority have respect for the most prominent universes, even if they state a clear preference for one of them. Most people seem to be pulling in the same direction.

The fanbase is also infinitely less pretentious than many. Most of you seem fairly laid-back which is rare for a community such as this.

I don't know if you could call it a 'fanbase' per se, but believe me when I tell you that the soccer community is much more fickle, highly strung and frustrating than the turtles fanbase. There's also more egotism amongst football fans and a burning desire to be correct above all else.

Obviously none of you are football fans but if you were you'd know exactly what I mean.

[Prowler]

From what I have read on here and on other internet sites I wouldn't particularly consider the turtles fanbase divided. Some aspects and universes can be argued to be divisive but from what i have seen the majority have respect for the most prominent universes, even if they state a clear preference for one of them. Most people seem to be pulling in the same direction.

The fanbase is also infinitely less pretentious than many. Most of you seem fairly laid-back which is rare for a community such as this.

I don't know if you could call it a 'fanbase' per se, but believe me when I tell you that the soccer community is much more fickle, highly strung and frustrating than the turtles fanbase. There's also more egotism amongst football fans and a burning desire to be correct above all else.

Obviously none of you are football fans but if you were you'd know exactly what I mean.
Oh, definitely, even among fans of the same club. Especially when your team is going through bad times, oh boy...

[Davetello]

Oh, definitely, even among fans of the same club. Especially when your team is going through bad times, oh boy...

Yeah, I was gonna bring it down to individual fanbases, but even the footballing support/community as a whole is a very combustible entity.

As for mutiny and civil war when your club is struggling, that's something that American sports fans won't be able to comprehend. US sports aren't considered a religion from what I have seen.

I've seen people offer to meet each other and 'settle things' because they had a different opinion on whether their team's manager should be sacked. Can you imagine people on here wanting to fight each other due to disagreements on the turtles?

[Michelangelo]

TMNTs certainly have a lot of history now and amongst everything out there I think there's enough stuff argyue about if people want. I just found out about these japanese super mutants version of the TMNTs. I have no idea what it's all about but it certainly looks like something different, but as to whether I'll like it or not I'll just have to see for myself. Anyone know much about this japanese super mutants stuff and are there many fans of it among everyone here?

[Prowler]

Yeah, I was gonna bring it down to individual fanbases, but even the footballing support/community as a whole is a very combustible entity.

As for mutiny and civil war when your club is struggling, that's something that American sports fans won't be able to comprehend. US sports aren't considered a religion from what I have seen.

I've seen people offer to meet each other and 'settle things' because they had a different opinion on whether their team's manager should be sacked. Can you imagine people on here wanting to fight each other due to disagreements on the turtles?
Considering you're from Glasgow I take it that you either support Rangers or Celtic, right? That's one of the 3 biggest football rivalries alongside Boca Juniors vs. River Plate and Fenerbahçe vs. Galatasaray, imo.

[Airconny]

The Nick show and IDW series IMO is doing a good job to keep or even close the fandom gap and is the reason for the current success, and I feel that it will continue with the third movie after watching a recent Con panel with E&L, Michael Bay, the Turtle Doc, and the fact that the first movie will be re-released with outtakes.
This. Watching that Turtle Doc during the panel got me riled up, seeing that they got some of the voice talent and actors from FW and 1990 movies is definitely something I want to watch. I think that's what Nick is trying to do anyways with the new series, to unify most of the fandom into one, so that the level of arguing over ''what's better and what isn't'' is kept to a low minimum.

[Davetello]

Considering you're from Glasgow I take it that you either support Rangers or Celtic, right? That's one of the 3 biggest football rivalries alongside Boca Juniors vs. River Plate and Fenerbahçe vs. Galatasaray, imo.

Yeah, Rangers mate. Now the Old Firm is an example of exactly the type of insanity I refer to :lol: I consider Boca-River to be the biggest derby in the world.

I've deduced from your post on the turtles' visit to Portugal in the OT that you're from Lisbon. You a Sporting or Benfica man?

[Prowler]

Yeah, Rangers mate. Now the Old Firm is an example of exactly the type of insanity I refer to :lol: I consider Boca-River to be the biggest derby in the world.

I've deduced from your post on the turtles' visit to Portugal in the OT that you're from Lisbon. You a Sporting or Benfica man?
Rangers are my favorite Scottish team, actually.

I'm a Benfiquista ;)

[Davetello]

Rangers are my favorite Scottish team, actually.

Yes, I'm a Benfiquista ;)

Thanks. That's nice to know :)

I probably like Benfica most of the big three in Portugal, coincidentally. Your club has a sensational history and I believe has the most paid up members of any club in world football - or did. Hard end to the season last year though (sorry to remind you).

Fancy your chances against Sweden? You have been woeful recently and Ronaldo hasn't performed for ages.

We are sidetracking the discussion here but it would be great to talk football and turtles in private some time.

[Prowler]

Thanks. That's nice to know :)

I probably like Benfica most of the big three in Portugal, coincidentally. Your club has a sensational history and I believe has the most paid up members of any club in world football - or did. Hard end to the season last year though (sorry to remind you).

Fancy your chances against Sweden? You have been woeful recently and Ronaldo hasn't performed for ages.

We are sidetracking the discussion here but it would be great to talk football and turtles in private some time.

Indeed we are.Sent you a PM.

[Leo656]

Davetello: Some people treat sports as kind of a religion here, though, especially American football. I used to work with a bunch of guys who made it a point to tell the boss in advance they were not coming in to work the Monday following the Super Bowl. This used to piss me off, because in that job (moving furniture) the fewer people come to work means each crew is going out short-handed, which can make a job take twice as long, which leads to people not wanting to pay because the bill went over the estimate, and so on and so on. So I always considered it insanely unprofessional that people could get away with it so easily, whereas I'd get yelled at if I was sick and coughing up blood from a respiratory infection.

So one time I casually asked one of these guys how they'd feel if I took off from work the day after WrestleMania, since I'm a wrestler and don't care about sports much otherwise, and then *they* would get screwed into going out short because I didn't come in. They're like, "Well that's different, that's just bullsh*t." I'm like, how is it any more or less bullsh*t than you or anyone taking the day off because you spent all day getting drunk watching football? It's not like the viewer has any personal investment into who wins or loses, it's all just entertainment.

But anyways, how it seems to break down here is: You can't call out of work for being sick. You can't call out of work if you're drunk or hungover. BUT, if you're drunk or hungover because there was a really big GAME on TV, well, sure, THAT is perfectly acceptable. :roll: Also, church and football both treat Sunday as the most important day of the week, so yeah, in some ways sports really are like a religion, here. :lol: