Raph and Leo

[Misfit]

I'm curious, how do you guys like Raph and Leo's brotherly relationship to be protrayed? Do you like them with lots of tension and constantly at each other's throats like the movie and new show, or do you wish they'd both lighten up and drop their attitudes?

Personally I love them with all the tension and think they'd be pretty boring without it. Like in the 80s toon...it wasn't really focused on, though Raph was always being sarcy he always seemed to wind up doing whatever Leo wanted in the end, often following his orders without question where as movie/new toon Raph likes to go his own way a lot of the time.

Thoughts?

[cqb101]

I like the original relationship where they're always at each others throats. It makes it a lot more interesting.

[Taloniss]

I like the original relationship where they're always at each others throats. It makes it a lot more interesting.

I agree.

[Raven]

same here, it was cool seeing the two yell at each other, than watch raph storm out, or throw leo through a wall

[Kiss_My_Shell]

I like to watch them act like that,it's so interesting.Raph looses his temper,and then Leo throws off a wall.Heh,they do act like brothers :P [/b]

[HorseTechie]

Being partial to Raph, yeah... I do like how the two are usually at each other. The sibling rivalry, the tension, and the fact that everyone isn't always a big happy family like the old cartoon portrays.

And I'm always a sucker for inner turmoil, struggles of morality versus emotions, et all. Even though the brotherly love aspect has been parodied to death, I still love that bathroom scene in the first movie. Goes to show that even the two get at each other's throats, they still respect each other deep down. All wothout really having to become soft pushovers.

[Knuckles]

I think the tension's good, but I also like when they show that Raph really does care about Leo. For instance, in "The Shredder Strikes," when Shredder was about to slash Leo, Raph yells, "No!" and leaps in to save him, even though he took a hit for it.

[Jephael]

I'd have to go with how they behaved together in the Archie comics. In that version Raph was more of a hothead and a loner, but he was always respectful of Leo.

[Quiller-Bee]

My two favorites! I've always enjoyed the tension and sense of rivalry between Leo and Raph, as well as the frustration that each felt with the other.

Is it just me, or do the two of them seem as though they've mellowed a little towards one another in Mirage TMNT, vol. 4? Personally, I don't mind seeing a little progress and character development take place. While enjoyable for a time, any theme will become stale and redundant over time . . . and I'd hate to see that happen with the Leo/Raph relationship. We'll never see them holding hands and singing campfire songs together, but it's good to see characters grow.

[The Master]

Is it just me, or do the two of them seem as though they've mellowed a little towards one another in Mirage TMNT, vol. 4? Personally, I don't mind seeing a little progress and character development take place. While enjoyable for a time, any theme will become stale and redundant over time . . . and I'd hate to see that happen with the Leo/Raph relationship. We'll never see them holding hands and singing campfire songs together, but it's good to see characters grow.

Well, they are adults now, no longer the teenagers of old. Maturity has set in.

[DarkNinja]

I like the tension between Raph and Leo. It reminds me of myself and my little sister fighting all the time; there is a ten year difference in our age but that doesn't stop her from being a brat. She's pure evil :evil: , someone save me!

[The Bossanova]

I dont think there should constantly be tension between them..there should be occasions were they laugh at the same thing or agree on the same battle strategy or something to that sort..but yeah the should argue and fight at times

[Quiller-Bee]

While they've never been all mushy and sappy about it, Raph and Leo care for each other as good brothers do. Yeah, they fight a lot, but either one would literally kill in defense of the other.

My youngest sibling and I have fought since we were mere tykes, and to this day, still occasionally do. When that happens, for God's sake and your own, get out of the way. Still, in spite of our clashes and conflicts, we're the closest out of the lot of us. In addition to that, you cross one of us and you'll answer to the other. Just because two individuals fight like cats and dogs doesn't mean that they can't or don't share a deep bond.

Enough rambling from me . . . all I'm saying is that I think that Leo and Raph are the same way.

[The Bossanova]

well no i dont want them to be all mushy and sappy

[XERO]

Is it just me, or do the two of them seem as though they've mellowed a little towards one another in Mirage TMNT, vol. 4? Personally, I don't mind seeing a little progress and character development take place. While enjoyable for a time, any theme will become stale and redundant over time . . . and I'd hate to see that happen with the Leo/Raph relationship. We'll never see them holding hands and singing campfire songs together, but it's good to see characters grow.

Well, they are adults now, no longer the teenagers of old. Maturity has set in.

Yeah, I just realized that. They're like 28 years old now, and yet they're still called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

I guess Mutant Ninja Turtles doesn't quite roll of the tongue... :lol:

But then again, Ninja Turtles always worked for me! :D

[Quiller-Bee]

Actually, I think they're in their thirties now! :lol: If I remember correctly, Peter mentions it somewhere in the letter column of Mirage TMNT, vol. 4.

[heretic888]

Late twenties to early thirties, to be precise. The exact age is still unknown.

[Quiller-Bee]

To be a little more precise, the Turtles are past their twenties and are now in their thirties. Mid-thirties, to be closer to exact.

Peter Laird, Turtle Tracks letters section of TMNT vol. 4, #3:
"Okay… this will be the first, last and only time I answer this oft-asked question in this book. The Turtles are not teenagers any more. They are in their thirties. That being said, the book will not be called MIDDLE-AGED MUTANT NINJA TURTLES or any other equally lame thing, because I like the name TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES, and that's the name I think of when I think of these characters."

[heretic888]

The only way they could be in their mid-thirties is if the "Teenage" Mutant Ninja Turtles were 20 in their very first issue.

[Quiller-Bee]

I think you might need to double-check your math, heretic. Check your calendar and you'll see that next year is 2004 . . . the 20th anniversary of the TMNT is quickly approaching. If the TMNT universe's timeline roughly parallels our own, it is indeed quite possible for the Turtles to be in their mid-thirties. Furthermore—and I know you aren't gonna like this statement—but you aren't Peter Laird. His word carries far more weight concerning any and all things TMNT than your own. Like it or not, like me, you're only a fan.

[heretic888]

Issue one of TMNT Volume 1 states they are 13.

Issue one of TMNT Volume 4 states 15 years have passed since they were battling the Purple Dragons (seen only in issue one of Volume 1).

Common logic would deduce they are around 27 to 30.

However, even Laird has stated the "exact dates" are unknown. I believe he said they were around 28 to 31 (which I guess would technically be "in their thirties") in a letter response.

[Karpo_007]

The chronology is pretty weird, Laird said that April and Casey are in their thirties too...

[Quiller-Bee]

I suppose that assumption is based Splinter's statement to the Turtles when he says ". . . time for you to be told of the mission for which I have trained you these past thirteen years." The only thing that can be logically deduced from Splinter's statement is not their exact age, but precisely what he said . . . that he had trained them for thirteen years. In that same account given by Splinter, he also states that their full-grown size was reached within a year. The amount of time that passes between the Turtles reaching their full size and their gaining of the ability to stand upright—in addition to their learning to speak—is not specifically addressed in Splinter's tale. According to Splinter's account—which is basically only an overview—it can be assumed that it took anywhere from a week to one year for the Turtles to reach this state. It was then that Splinter began to train them. In that case, I would think that the Turtles are closer to, at the very least, fourteen years old in issue #1. To muddy the issue further, if one were to take into account their age before their mutation began, they're possibly even a little older than that.

While enjoyable, this debate is basically irrelevant and pointless. Since Kevin Eastman sold his rights to the Turtles, anything that Peter Laid says pertaining to the TMNT is gospel, whether we like it or not. What he says today overrides what he or Kevin said yesterday, two years ago . . . whenever. That's his prerogative and power as a creator of and the sole-holder of the rights to the characters. Perhaps it's lacking in consistency, but the events of the Turtles' universe happen only in the "realm of ideas"—Peter Laird's mind, to be exact—where time scientific law hold no real command. There, Laird is “God”, and he doesn't have to be consistent if he doesn't choose to be. In the end, it matters not what either Quiller-Bee or heretic have to say. If Peter says that the Turtles are in their thirties, then they're in their thirties.

[Caster_Troy]

tension all the way. I mean it only seems right...

[RskimB]

You'd think he would at least pare it down to a nice simple "Ninja Turtles"

[Machias Banshee]

*beware former science major's hypothesis*

Okay, as many of us know (or will know in a second) turtles have been know to live for 100 years or more. The turtles also being affected by mutagen, also gets added on advantages. They gain the immunities of both human and turtle (and Splinter's evil herbal remedies :P :D ), which helps them live longer, thus stretching out the behaviors and development a lil more.

Look at "Finding Nemo" (just humor me, please) ...the Sea Turtle, Crush. He talks, well...he talks Like Mike from the cartoon. Doofy twenty something surfer bum. BUT then you find out that he's 150 Years Old! Even though he's old in human terms, he's just getting into the best part of his life! :D

So, Even though the guys are in their 30s in human terms... in turtle years, their still teenagers... :D Thus keeping the name, Teenage Mutant blabbly blah...

[cqb101]

*beware former science major's hypothesis*

Okay, as many of us know (or will know in a second) turtles have been know to live for 100 years or more. The turtles also being affected by mutagen, also gets added on advantages. They gain the immunities of both human and turtle (and Splinter's evil herbal remedies :P :D ), which helps them live longer, thus stretching out the behaviors and development a lil more.

Look at "Finding Nemo" (just humor me, please) ...the Sea Turtle, Crush. He talks, well...he talks Like Mike from the cartoon. Doofy twenty something surfer bum. BUT then you find out that he's 150 Years Old! Even though he's old in human terms, he's just getting into the best part of his life! :D

So, Even though the guys are in their 30s in human terms... in turtle years, their still teenagers... :D Thus keeping the name, Teenage Mutant blabbly blah...

Hmmmmm, that actually makes sense!!!!!!!!!

[XERO]

Yeah, Machias, you make everything seem so simple! :D