Eric Sachs/Shredder - reincarnation or descendant

[ninja-zero]

What do you think of Eric Sachs as the Shredder?

Is he a reincarnation or descendant of Oroku Saki?

[Y2Bogus]

I've posted my theory before, but here it is again.

Shredder is an Utrom. He used an Oroku Saki "suit" in Japan and had his encounter with Hamato Yoshi, setting into place the events of TMNT history.

After relocating to NY, he dropped the Saki suit, likely because of the attached criminal baggage that it had, and adopted an "Eric Sachs" suit to pose as a legitimate businessman, while still remaining the Shredder.

So for all intents and purposes, Eric Sachs IS Oroku Saki, as they are the same individual, just in a different exo-suit

[MastahShredder]

Most likely a hardcore fanatic of all things ninja/samurai/armor that happens to stumble across a ton of money to invest in a state of the art tech-suit that incorporates his collection of artifacts from one of Japan's finest shadow warriors. A man named, Oroku Saki.

[Candy Kappa]

I think neither. Either he is just the whitewashed version of Oroku Saki, since his name is way too similar, Eric Sachs. Or, he is possessed by the Spirit of Oroku.

[ninja-zero]

Reincarnation or descendant? Please decide.

[electric_sheep]

Neither, he is a white version of Oroku Saki.

[Candy Kappa]

Black and white options, much?

I don't think it's either.

[Puddinpop]

I've posted my theory before, but here it is again.

Shredder is an Utrom. He used an Oroku Saki "suit" in Japan and had his encounter with Hamato Yoshi, setting into place the events of TMNT history.

After relocating to NY, he dropped the Saki suit, likely because of the attached criminal baggage that it had, and adopted an "Eric Sachs" suit to pose as a legitimate businessman, while still remaining the Shredder.

So for all intents and purposes, Eric Sachs IS Oroku Saki, as they are the same individual, just in a different exo-suit

This is exactly what I think. He's being operated by Krang/Utrom. The same one that operated Saki in Feudal japan. The fact that the ooze canister has TCRI written on it makes me think that we're definitely going to get a sci fi element in this film. I'm tired of waiting.. Just get here already.

If I had to pick though.. id pick reincarnation bc that's what we get in IDW. I wouldn't mind getting that for the movie

[ninja-zero]

Anyone picked up descendant? Who knows? We might pick up the real Oroku Saki: the Tengu/Demon Shredder and he can take over Sachs' company in order to learn of his new environment.

[Glados]

Either he is just the whitewashed version of Oroku Saki, since his name is way too similar, Eric Sachs.

Pardon for derailing, but I'm curious since I've seen it brought up a few times: how is his name similar to Oroku Saki? Is it just that "Sachs" and "Saki" are short names both beginning with S...?

[electric_sheep]

Pardon for derailing, but I'm curious since I've seen it brought up a few times: how is his name similar to Oroku Saki? Is it just that "Sachs" and "Saki" are short names both beginning with S...?

Oroku Saki is the American Equivalent of Eric Sach...

[Tazi]

I think they will the Tengu stuff here, or similar. Eric Sachs is probably just a businessman, the Shredder is seperate, and some anchient demon/spirit, and Sachs will possibly aquire his power in the movie, so he becomes the Shredder.

One of the actors said that someone becomes the Shredder in the movie. It fits my theory.


Maybe Hamato Yoshi was the enemy of the Shredder, or the one who defeated him?

[Candy Kappa]

Pardon for derailing, but I'm curious since I've seen it brought up a few times: how is his name similar to Oroku Saki? Is it just that "Sachs" and "Saki" are short names both beginning with S...?

Oroku - Eriku - Eric
Sachs - Sakusu - Saki

[Sumac]

Neither.
If I play optimist card, than he is either Utrom with many fictional personalities or fanatical collectioner, who takes name Shredder, because of his obsession with japanese culture.
If I play pessimist card, then he is just alternate version of Oroku Saki, created by Bay and Co to make character "more accessible to the audience" (whatever that means).

I am not excluding possibility of him being demon, reincarnation or descendant, but those three theories above, are my main bets.

[Puddinpop]

Anyone picked up descendant? Who knows? We might pick up the real Oroku Saki: the Tengu/Demon Shredder and he can take over Sachs' company in order to learn of his new environment.

I think its possible. I posted a thread about this last month with a bunch of Wiki information about tengu shredder and how the scroll matches some of the mythology.

Check it out if you'd like http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=47229

[jezza]

Knowing where this is headed. I reckon he's just some crazed scientist with a fascination for Japanese history. His intentions to create the Turtles as heroes was genuine but in a twisted turn of fate, he gets consumed by the Shredder suit as he goes out looking for them when they go AWOL. The suit has side effects of reincarnating the memory of Oroku Saki into him and as a result he goes crazy and then is hell bent on killing the Turtles instead of capturing them.

I hope that's not true, since it's a really lame idea, but anything is possible with what we know so far.

[alliance]

if shredders mom was white and dad japanese, would u guys atleast accept that?

[TurtleTitan97]

I think neither. Either he is just the whitewashed version of Oroku Saki, since his name is way too similar, Eric Sachs. Or, he is possessed by the Spirit of Oroku.

^ This is pretty much what I think.

[Galactus]

I've posted my theory before, but here it is again.

Shredder is an Utrom. He used an Oroku Saki "suit" in Japan and had his encounter with Hamato Yoshi, setting into place the events of TMNT history.

After relocating to NY, he dropped the Saki suit, likely because of the attached criminal baggage that it had, and adopted an "Eric Sachs" suit to pose as a legitimate businessman, while still remaining the Shredder.

So for all intents and purposes, Eric Sachs IS Oroku Saki, as they are the same individual, just in a different exo-suit

Well it certainly makes "sense" but it's all needlessly complicated when it could just be Oroku Saki and have done with it.

I'm not sure the likelihood of this considering that Fichtner has said that Sachs is fascinated by the armor and that there are people that become Shredder and that it could be anyone.

[Slade]

Knowing where this is headed. I reckon he's just some crazed scientist with a fascination for Japanese history. His intentions to create the Turtles as heroes was genuine but in a twisted turn of fate, he gets consumed by the Shredder suit as he goes out looking for them when they go AWOL. The suit has side effects of reincarnating the memory of Oroku Saki into him and as a result he goes crazy and then is hell bent on killing the Turtles instead of capturing them.

I hope that's not true, since it's a really lame idea, but anything is possible with what we know so far.

I kind of think something along these lines too.

[Candy Kappa]

Needlessly complicated is having a real Saki.

Okay. That piqued my curiosity, how is Saki needlessly complicated?

[electric_sheep]

It's definitely not needlessly complicated. It adds mythology, lineage, and basically merges the 2x most popular and/or known villains in the turtle mythos into basically this super villain. If Saki / Sachs is really an evil Krang like Utrom taking on the visage of an ancient Samurai, while secretly trying to bring destruction to the human race. It makes him a terrifying threat. I didn't think the idea was terrible in the 2k3 series, it was the cartoon like execution. A more adult approach to it could be terrifying. Needlessly complicated is having a real Saki, Tengu Shredder, Ancient Shredder, Chrell, Chrell Saki, Cyber Shredder, etc.

It was a horrible idea and it completly ruined the chartachter of Oroku Saki, that's the worst way that they can take in the new movie..
And how is having a real Oroku more complicated?

[Shark_Blade]

I'd go with reincarnation.

Eric Sachs resurrected Oroku Saki.

I've posted my theory before, but here it is again.

Shredder is an Utrom. He used an Oroku Saki "suit" in Japan and had his encounter with Hamato Yoshi, setting into place the events of TMNT history.

After relocating to NY, he dropped the Saki suit, likely because of the attached criminal baggage that it had, and adopted an "Eric Sachs" suit to pose as a legitimate businessman, while still remaining the Shredder.

So for all intents and purposes, Eric Sachs IS Oroku Saki, as they are the same individual, just in a different exo-suit

I like this theory, very plausible.

[ninja-zero]

Starting over from last thread.

[ninja-zero]

Starting over:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=47423

[Candy Kappa]

Why is a duplicate necessary? That's just spam.

Starting over:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=47423


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ma2J3n32VhA/UD6RjUn-aVI/AAAAAAAABwA/MvvUoH6HrKI/s1600/tmnt_facepalm.jpg

[electric_sheep]

What's wrong with the old thread?

[Shark_Blade]

What the..

[Candy Kappa]

Apparently, we are only allowed to theorize and speculate about reincarnation or descendant angles, and Utrom possibility... All else is BLASPHEMY!

[Glados]

Oroku - Eriku - Eric
Sachs - Sakusu - Saki

Uh... now I feel dumb, I'm still not understanding... ><

Wait... do you mean like, Eriku is how Japanese guys would pronounce Erik and Sakusu is the way they'd say Sachs, for some reason? Sorry, I'm not much of a "weeaboo" by any means...

[Candy Kappa]

I clearly didn't mean Saki by himself. I'm referring to the 2k3 show where we had this:

Modern Businessman Saki (Chrell)
Real Japanese Saki
Shredder (Chrell)
Tengu Shredder
Cyber Shredder

Ah, yeah. Cramming in seasons of backstory telling, is no good for a 2 hour movie.

Wait... do you mean like, Eriku is how Japanese guys would pronounce Erik and Sakusu is the way they'd say Sachs, for some reason? Sorry, I'm not much of a "weeaboo" by any means...

The names are too similar, so similar I recon there is no Oroku Saki in the PD movie, cause Sachs is the whitewashed version of Oroku.

[pennydreadful]

Based on the concept art that we've seen thus far, I think that we're going to get an Utrom Shredder... it was one of the few things that I didn't like in 4kids and I doubt I'll like if we get it in the movie. I'm a simple creature; I like Oroku Saki as a human being, not an alien.

That being said, it's still all conjecture at this point.

[Galactus]

It's definitely not needlessly complicated. It adds mythology, lineage, and basically merges the 2x most popular and/or known villains in the turtle mythos into basically this super villain. If Saki / Sachs is really an evil Krang like Utrom taking on the visage of an ancient Samurai, while secretly trying to bring destruction to the human race. It makes him a terrifying threat. I didn't think the idea was terrible in the 2k3 series, it was the cartoon like execution. A more adult approach to it could be terrifying. Needlessly complicated is having a real Saki, Tengu Shredder, Ancient Shredder, Chrell, Chrell Saki, Cyber Shredder, etc.

I'm assuming you mean Krang. Why do we need to merge the two most popular villains?

Surely by merging them that means you get one new questionable character instead of two proven ones. It wasn't so much of an issue in the 4kids series were there was little chance we'd see Krang and Ch'rell being (perhaps unintentional) exploration of what Krang could have been.

I actually did grow to like the 4kids take on the idea but that had several episodes across three seasons to prove itself and had someone with a cynical eye guiding it. One of the reasons it worked is that for the most part he was acting as Oroku Saki which is what this really boils down to.

All these revamped 4kids and IDW ideas seem to be a way to excuse the very questionable decision of hiring Fichtner to play a character whose pretty linked to Japanese roots and that's before getting into the debate of whether he could physically pull off being a martial arts master outside of a cgi costume. Based on what Fichtner has said that's not even going to be attempted - remember anyone could be Shredder when wearing the costume in this movie.

Also count me for someone liking an explanation of how the original Shredder idea is needlessly complex?

[GrapeSoda]

Also count me for someone liking an explanation of how the original Shredder idea is needlessly complex?

me too. The defense is grasping at straws. I'm curious how some one can write off the origin of the Shredder as just too complicated in defense of the move version. Lemme get some popcorn

[TurtleMikey]

I still believe that Eric Sach is NOT the real Shredder. Rather, he is simply a fanatic; a man obsessed with the legend of the Shredder. So much so, that he himself fashions armor and becomes, in his mind, The Shredder and has created his own personal "Foot" army.

However, after he is defeated, it is revealed that the real Shredder, and his Foot clan, are coming to seek vengeance on him and The Turtles (whom they will have some connection to per the scroll).


So basically a rip off of Iron Man 3 and All Hail The King. :oops:


But seriously, this is what I believe will happen.

[Puddinpop]

It's definitely not needlessly complicated. It adds mythology, lineage, and basically merges the 2x most popular and/or known villains in the turtle mythos into basically this super villain. If Saki / Sachs is really an evil Krang like Utrom taking on the visage of an ancient Samurai, while secretly trying to bring destruction to the human race. It makes him a terrifying threat. I didn't think the idea was terrible in the 2k3 series, it was the cartoon like execution. A more adult approach to it could be terrifying. Needlessly complicated is having a real Saki, Tengu Shredder, Ancient Shredder, Chrell, Chrell Saki, Cyber Shredder, etc.

I agree, I definitely think it makes him a much more powerful and terrifying character. I've always wanted to see Krang in a live action film. I love the 2k3 toon, but some times I think they got carried away imo.

Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman were the ones that created this idea of android exo suits and multiple shredders no? It's very possible that this new " Sachs " idea came from the mind of Eastman to begin with Judging by what Liebesman has said in a few interviews. I personally don't want to see the same story we saw in 1990. I'm happy with them exploring a fresh new take on the mythology. I'm happy with them digging deeper and having a richer back story. Imo if I want to see the original Oroku Saki story I can just pop in the first live action movie. So far I think this Shredder looks more menacing, more powerful, more connected with him having literal control over the entire city, media, politicians, Police department, Medical research/ TCRI and having a possible connection with Krang, or even being Krang. I can't wait to see this play out. It's something I've ALWAYS wanted to see in a live action film. Kevin also came up with the IDW spin on things. That would also be an interesting direction imo. I don't know.. I welcome the new take.

[ninja-zero]

Anyone picked descendant? I feel like no one has.

I mean what if Eric Sachs was descended from Saki the original Shredder?

[Puddinpop]

Anyone picked descendant? I feel like no one has.

I mean what if Eric Sachs was descended from Saki the original Shredder?

I think its a possibility.. I'm open to it. But then where does Yoshi fit into that? I'm not sure if they would include Saki without Including Yoshi.. I can't wait until these questions are finally put to rest.. I think this film deserves a Guinness world record for causing more arguments on the internet than anything ever lol

[electric_sheep]

Where's the there won't be any mention of Oroku Saki in the movie option?

[Shark_Blade]

I still believe that Eric Sach is NOT the real Shredder. Rather, he is simply a fanatic; a man obsessed with the legend of the Shredder. So much so, that he himself fashions armor and becomes, in his mind, The Shredder and has created his own personal "Foot" army.

However, after he is defeated, it is revealed that the real Shredder, and his Foot clan, are coming to seek vengeance on him and The Turtles (whom they will have some connection to per the scroll).


So basically a rip off of Iron Man 3 and All Hail The King. :oops:


But seriously, this is what I believe will happen.I wouldn't bet on it considering the Eric Sachs actor (William Fichtner) is signed for 3 TMNT movies already. He is the one true Shredder imo.

[Technogeek29]

Oroku Saki, Hamato Yoshi? Ha if those names get thrown around or not I won't be surprised. I just wonder if Tang Shen will get a mentioned? You know the very important spark of war for the Turtles and Splinter? The catalyst for this whole ordeal to begin with?

[Candy Kappa]

Oroku Saki, Hamato Yoshi? Ha if those names get thrown around or not I won't be surprised. I just wonder if Tang Shen will get a mentioned? You know the very important spark of war for the Turtles and Splinter? The catalyst for this whole ordeal to begin with?

Not if it's going to be closer to the Fred Wolf cartoon, or even the 4Kids cartoon. Shen's role in 4Kids is very minimal when it comes to Shredder vs. Yoshi, since Shredder's goal was to get the information about the whereabouts of the Utroms out of Yoshi.

Time will tell if she is included.

[Y2Bogus]

Not if it's going to be closer to the Fred Wolf cartoon, or even the 4Kids cartoon. Shen's role in 4Kids is very minimal when it comes to Shredder vs. Yoshi, since Shredder's goal was to get the information about the whereabouts of the Utroms out of Yoshi.

Time will tell if she is included.

Shen could still fit into the movie with an Utrom Shredder. Yoshi could have believed that Saki murdered Shen because of being obsessively and jealously in love with her, but the real reason for killing her was that she perhaps accidentally discovered Saki's Utrom secret.

Hence, Saki kills Shen. Yoshi believes it was out of mad passion and confronts Saki. Saki kills Yoshi. Saki feels that his secret has been compromised, drops the Saki persona, and adopts the Eric Sachs persona.

[Candy Kappa]

that scenario makes it feel even more like a WiF scenario then the canon Shen stories...

[Lone Ranger Ninjutsu]

I've posted my theory before, but here it is again.

Shredder is an Utrom. He used an Oroku Saki "suit" in Japan and had his encounter with Hamato Yoshi, setting into place the events of TMNT history.

After relocating to NY, he dropped the Saki suit, likely because of the attached criminal baggage that it had, and adopted an "Eric Sachs" suit to pose as a legitimate businessman, while still remaining the Shredder.

So for all intents and purposes, Eric Sachs IS Oroku Saki, as they are the same individual, just in a different exo-suit

I actually kinda dig this theory. It seems a bit too intelligent, considering the "talent" behind this film, but hey, never say never I suppose.

Or it could sorta be like Batman Begins with Ra's al Ghul. The Shredder may be a pseudonym passed down through the ages, master to apprentice, kind of like the Dread Pirate Roberts from The Princess Bride. So maybe Eric Sachs isn't a descendent of Oroku Saki per say, but simply the next in a long line of Shredders.

And maybe, to explain Karai's presence in this film, it is possible that Eric Sachs had discovered what he believed to one of the few true descendents of Oroku Saki, that one being Karai. I think he has been training Karai to later fill his place as the Shredder, though in actuality, Karai is a descendent of Hamato Yoshi and not Oroku Saki.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I think neither. Either he is just the whitewashed version of Oroku Saki, since his name is way too similar, Eric Sachs. Or, he is possessed by the Spirit of Oroku.

I wouldn't actually mind that.

[MastahShredder]

http://i.imgur.com/v157TsS.jpg

[MastahShredder]

Oroku Saki...business partner of.....Eric Sachs? ;)

[Coola Yagami]

Neither. He is the oroku saki of this movie. Like it or not.

[MastahShredder]

What is the deal with Sach's and the mysterious man? I don't think it's reincarnation anymore. The scroll throws me off though.

[Michelangelo]

Eric Sachs is a character created just to throw people off the movie before seeing this new clip. That way they can whinge how shredder is white and not from Japan etc etc. Now that the clip is out, and from other material that has surfaced, William Fichtner plays both eric sachs and who can only be oroku saki. The oroku saki is, without the armour, so obviously like the nick show oroku. Other material that has surfaced showing Fichtner in a suit, like the the turtles cast, confirms he does play a cgi armour generated shredder. If eric sachs has a bigger part to play then awesome, if not then Fichtner still plays shredder for 3 movies since he signed a 3 movie deal and will stay on because he was likely bought out cheaper than rehiring movie after movie. Bay wouldn't be into all this if he didn't see more movies out of all this, like the transformers, and I'm confident of 3 movies here. The oroku appearance also confirms Eastman is not a liar, as I know people were surprised and more pleasantly so with the latest clip and the details of the shredder. I think Bay and all involved have played everyone well up to this point making for a great reaction to this latest clip. maybe erich sachs was just a pawn in this long scheme of deception surrounding the film.Of course all will be revealed upon release, but if ever there was a reason to be confident this clip really smashes it home. Cowabunga!!!!

[Y2Bogus]

What is the deal with Sach's and the mysterious man? I don't think it's reincarnation anymore. The scroll throws me off though.

Someone in another thread mentioned that the scarred person in the shadows looks to be very static and reminiscent of an embalmed corpse. That leads me to my theory.

Now originally I suggested Shredder/Fitchner was an Utrom in Japan who used an Oroku Saki suit, operated as the shredder, and had a confrontation with Hamato Yoshi. Some time after that, he swapped over to an Eric Sachs suit, probably to escape the criminal baggage associated with Saki, and now operates the foot clan as Eric Sachs.

My theory is that the scarred man in the shadows is the original Oroku Saki exo suit.