Shredder's dumbass plan... *spoilers*

[Coola Yagami]

So um... how exactly was the Mutagen gonna cure people from their plague? It wouldn't frickin cure people, it would turn them into mutants. Why weren't they more surprised that the turtles and rat turned into humanoid things? THAT wasn't the intended purpose of the mutagen. You don't make the cure for the flu, and see it makes people grow a third eye, and then just handwave and issue it out as a cure anyway. Ordinary Turtles turning into walking talking monsters is a hell of a side effect, don't you think???

Why didn't they need Splinter? He was mutated just the same. How can they cure anyone if that plague kills people in seconds. The way Shredder was unleashing it on the city at large, there wouldn't be anyone left to pay their ransom demands. Why would the Mutagen even cure Splinter, instead of mutating him further?

[Gin Rummy]

Yeah I thought about that as well on the way home. It really doesen't make much sense. It's probably best not to think to deep on it. Unfortunatly this movies basic plot came far behind the humor, action scenes, & pretty colors.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah I thought about that as well on the way home. It really doesen't make much sense. It's probably best not to think to deep on it. Unfortunatly this movies basic plot came far behind the humor, action scenes, & pretty colors.

It's hard to 'not think about it' because that's the whole reason behind the movie's plot, and that was the main reason Shredder wanted the Turtles captured and the main threat the Turtles wanted to stop. The final battle was all about stopping him from releasing the gas. It's too important a detail to just 'turn your brain off' for. It literally smacked my face with WTF over and over.

Didn't see any pretty colors, the action scenes minus Shredder sucked, and the humor minus the elevator be-box scene was so-so.

[Leo656]

As far as I'm aware, there was pizza in it and someone said "Cowabunga". So, as long as those major bases are covered, that's all that's important.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

And wouldn't someone, somewhere be smart enough to realize that the poison was emanating from the giant Sacks tower? Wouldn't people find that a little suspicious?

[NinjaPug]

It really doesen't make much sense. It's probably best not to think to deep on it.

And that's exactly what Platinum Dunes wants. Giving in to that line of thinking is exactly why we'll never get a good TMNT movie with them behind it.

[Shark_Blade]

For Splinter, it could be because of his age. Young blood is much preferable than old ones I reckon.

That or his hatred for Splinter is so much, he didn't care for him.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah... there are some things you just can't 'shut your brain off' over. Stuff like the Turtles themselves and how they would even exist and how they can afford all their gear.... yeah, that's stuff you kinda ignore for the sake of the movie. But the grand master plan that in turn explains why/how the Turtles were created in the first place.... yeah, no. How would they consider Mutagen a cure for anything, hell they even called it Mutagen, that's what it does, mutate.

I know they did something similar in the IDW, but there they specifically separate Mutagen and Ooze, making the Ooze by itself what has healing and curing properties, not that Mutagen.

[Warhorse]

For Splinter, it could be because of his age. Young blood is much preferable than old ones I reckon.

That or his hatred for Splinter is so much, he didn't care for him.

But why? Why did Shredder hate Splinter so much? As far as we can tell, he long forgot about Splinter and the Turtles until April sent him down memory lane. And then again, why the hatred?

[Coola Yagami]

For Splinter, it could be because of his age. Young blood is much preferable than old ones I reckon.

That or his hatred for Splinter is so much, he didn't care for him.

But WHY? He really had no reason to hate Splinter any more or less than the Turtles. There was no personal vendetta between the two in this version. Besides, if the turtles died or the procedure failed, they still had Splinter as a back up.

The age could be an answer but a simple two lines 'what about the rat' 'he's too old, the mutagen in his blood would be too weak' would suffice.

[Werecat]

The mutagen is described to have accelerated regenerative properties.

Erich Sachs was the one with the plan to infect the city.

[Leo656]

I'm not stirring sh*t, I just wanna know, from those who seen it already... does the final movie come off like the entire "script" was written on a napkin? Because it really, really seems like it based on the descriptions. :ohwell:

[Matt2310]

That comes in the sequel ... The truth shell come out

[Bry]

As far as I'm aware, there was pizza in it and someone said "Cowabunga". So, as long as those major bases are covered, that's all that's important.

That's a movie now! Aren't we lucky!?

Seriously, though - nothing in this movie made sense. Most of the Shredder and Krang's zany schemes in the '87 cartoon made more logical sense than the plot of this movie. And that's really saying something.

[chrisdude]

So um... how exactly was the Mutagen gonna cure people from their plague? It wouldn't frickin cure people, it would turn them into mutants. Why weren't they more surprised that the turtles and rat turned into humanoid things? THAT wasn't the intended purpose of the mutagen. You don't make the cure for the flu, and see it makes people grow a third eye, and then just handwave and issue it out as a cure anyway. Ordinary Turtles turning into walking talking monsters is a hell of a side effect, don't you think???[i] Sacks was already confident that "mutagen" would work as an antidote to the poison. And the effects that it had on animals was unexpected. So they must've already tested on people before the fire. A line of dialogue could've cleared all that up.

But even if it did mutate everybody, any side effect is better than the effects of that poison...

Why didn't they need Splinter? He was mutated just the same. How can they cure anyone if that plague kills people in seconds. The way Shredder was unleashing it on the city at large, there wouldn't be anyone left to pay their ransom demands. Why would the Mutagen even cure Splinter, instead of mutating him further?If the poison is airborne, they just need to distribute the antidote before gets to you. So yeah, everybody nearby would die, but not the whole planet.

I don't understand leaving Splinter. Shredder was content to kill Splinter and leave Raph's body when they blew up the lair. Seems Shredder just dgaf...

Also, why drain all the turtle blood, instead of just keeping them captive for a while, and taking as much as you need? Why does this plan need to go into motion immediately? I imagine a lot of these questions would have been answered if the movie wasn't edited so heavily.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

If it was verbally stated in the movie that releasing the gas is eric's idea, then oh crap. If this is the case then I wish it would be omitted for dvd/blu ray release, this is bad cause it makes sachs look like the main boss instead of saki. *sighs

Yeah... there are some things you just can't 'shut your brain off' over. Stuff like the Turtles themselves and how they would even exist and how they can afford all their gear.... yeah, that's stuff you kinda ignore for the sake of the movie. But the grand master plan that in turn explains why/how the Turtles were created in the first place.... yeah, no. How would they consider Mutagen a cure for anything, hell they even called it Mutagen, that's what it does, mutate.

I know they did something similar in the IDW, but there they specifically separate Mutagen and Ooze, making the Ooze by itself what has healing and curing properties, not that Mutagen.

Um, hello? People either donate their stuff or bag them up for the garbage men to collect. How they exist as is? The mutagen.

[graphic_content]

How can they cure anyone if that plague kills people in seconds.

Man, can't believe I missed so obvious a plothole. Maybe bc the foot they forcibly exposed has direct inhalation from the source, where as once it's airborne it isn't as potent?

Maybe?

nah, it would've killed everybody.

[IndigoErth]

For that matter, why did it take so long to mutate them in the first place?

[Electric]

what i understood it as:

sacks and aprils father were messing with the mutagen, because it had "healing properties" and an antidote could be refined from it but her father found out about sacks working with shredder, so he burned the place down. the mutagen was destroyed, minus what was in the turtles and splinter which i thought was the raw mutagen, not the antidote, explaining their mutation. the mutagen wasnt the cure, it could be made into a cure.

as for shredder, releasing the toxin, from what i remember, sacks said that it would kill off a decent amount of the population over time. this would make it easier for the shredder and foot to take over, and the people that remained would buy the cure from sacks, so hed become rich.

from sacks dialogue this is what i got

[Coola Yagami]

what i understood it as:

sacks and aprils father were messing with the mutagen, because it had "healing properties" and an antidote could be refined from it but her father found out about sacks working with shredder, so he burned the place down. the mutagen was destroyed, minus what was in the turtles and splinter which i thought was the raw mutagen, not the antidote, explaining their mutation. the mutagen wasnt the cure, it could be made into a cure.

as for shredder, releasing the toxin, from what i remember, sacks said that it would kill off a decent amount of the population over time. this would make it easier for the shredder and foot to take over, and the people that remained would buy the cure from sacks, so hed become rich.

from sacks dialogue this is what i got

though they were using the raw mutagen now, and they even used the raw mutagen on splinter, which should have mutated him further...

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

For that matter, why did it take so long to mutate them in the first place?

Speed is dependent on what subject is used, I guess.

[chrisdude]

what i understood it as:

sacks and aprils father were messing with the mutagen, because it had "healing properties" and an antidote could be refined from it but her father found out about sacks working with shredder, so he burned the place down. the mutagen was destroyed, minus what was in the turtles and splinter which i thought was the raw mutagen, not the antidote, explaining their mutation. the mutagen wasnt the cure, it could be made into a cure.

as for shredder, releasing the toxin, from what i remember, sacks said that it would kill off a decent amount of the population over time. this would make it easier for the shredder and foot to take over, and the people that remained would buy the cure from sacks, so hed become rich.

from sacks dialogue this is what i gotThis makes sense, because April said in her lab video that the ooze was supposed to be from another planet in outer space. Meaning Sacks and O'Neil didn't make it. They got it from Utroms or something. Whatever experiments they were doing to create an antidote was derivative of the ooze.

Plus, when they extracting the mutagen from the turtles, Sacks ran off with the first canister, and took it to the lab in NYC. He was working with it when April and Vern found him. So he was running some second process. And, being the only canister around, it's what they took home to Splinter.

[Electric]

though they were using the raw mutagen now, and they even used the raw mutagen on splinter, which should have mutated him further...

they told april to bring it to him if they didnt come back, as it may be able to cure him. but they didnt end up with the mutagen. shredder had it at the end. donnie helped splinter recover

when i see the movie again, ill look for the line im thinking of, where sacks said something about how they were working with the mutagen or something and because her dad destroyed everything he couldnt recreate the cure without the mutagen, implying that the mutagen is only part of it

And, being the only canister around, it's what they took home to Splinter.

i honestly thought that they did not have any mutagen at the end. when shredder fell, it was in his belt, and the cannister broke, hence it on his finger. the only way they couldve gotten it is if they took if from shredder on the ground, which i dont think because he was surrounded by people. but maybe i missed something

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Hm, april's dad ruining the place and stuff makes me think he might be hamato yoshi in a new body, so perhaps splinter is him and april's dad?

[Warhorse]

Hm, april's dad turning the place upside down makes me think he might have been hamato yoshi in a new body, so perhaps splinter is him and april's dad?

Oh brother. So, they white washed Yoshi too?

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Oh brother. So, they white washed Yoshi too?

You didn't see the movie? It was just something that came from my mind.

[Electric]

Oh brother. So, they white washed Yoshi too?

first, no, just thinking. second there is no "too"? shredder was not sacks in this movie. whether he was at one point or not is irrelevant, because in the movie, shredder is asian

[TerranigmaFreak]

This part of the plan actually does make sense. When they were testing it on the turtles, they testing it as a cure, not to mutate them. The mutation had side effects that they never expected. Plus, we don't know how it would effect the humans. Maybe the side effect doesn't happen to humans. Remember, this isn't the same mutagen as the previous incarnations.

[Warhorse]

first, no, just thinking. second there is no "too"? shredder was not sacks in this movie. whether he was at one point or not is irrelevant, because in the movie, shredder is asian

Funny thing is, I don't care either way, but the fact that the movie was butchered so bad to try and cover up the whole Sachs is Shredder, it's something they never should have come up with in the first place.

[Electric]

Funny thing is, I don't care either way, but the fact that the movie was butchered so bad to try and cover up the whole Sachs is Shredder, it's something they never should have come up with in the first place.

discussion for one of the numerous other threads my friend

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Because of way too many mid-production changes, re-writes, and re-shoots to try and react to test groups and online reactions.

They should have stuck with Sacks attempting to create "heroes" (really to make super soldiers for his own criminal empire), becoming the Shredder and after they saw backlash they could have simply added some scenes at the end with Oroku Saki arriving in New York to restore the Foot Clan to its proper position as a ninja clan since Sacks had dishonored it, etc, etc.

I'm not entirely sure the poison/mutagen cure was the original intent. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Just seems weird to piece together how they planned this out.

I think they made a mess with how they tried to shoe horn their script in different directions late in the game.

[Jose Canseco]

Well it seemed like his plan in the original was to just steal electronics and make money. Doesn't really seem like something the leader of a noble ninja clan would do. I've never thought shredder ever had good plans.

[Coola Yagami]

Well it seemed like his plan in the original was to just steal electronics and make money. Doesn't really seem like something the leader of a noble ninja clan would do. I've never thought shredder ever had good plans.

Well in the original there was no real plan besides run the city with a massive crimewave..... and he was successful until April and the Turtles got involved. I mean not every plan has to involve destroying the city or ruling the world. Shredder already succeeded in his plan, he was robbing the city blind uncontested.

It's like asking what's the Kingpin's plan. There isn't any. He's the friggin Kingpin. Whatever he did to become the Kingpin, he already did it, therefore he already succeeded in his plans.

[victory_angel]

The plan was essentially to poison all of New York. Eric Sach's would then proclaim his company has a cure for the disease and you had to pony up a lot of money for the cure. If you couldn't afford it, you were screwed.

But of course realistically it would have to be tested and approved by the FDA before it can be administered. So even if you had the money for the medication, you could still die before you were able to get your hands on it.

[Artist]

Well we really don't know if the virus killed the guy. We just see him fall on the floor and rash appear on his body. We do know it has the potential to kill because of Eric Sachs comment about the death toll being large. But he also mentions that NY would be under a quarantine and will need his cure, which the government will give him money for it. The money then will help build Shredder empire. The reason why Shredder is doing what he is doing is to rebuild the foot clan to its ancient dominant statis. Shredder to Kari, " The foot clan will rise again. We will reclaim victory." Sachs tell april about an ancient war lord who poisoned the water supply, and an Alchemist who purified the water. Pretty much telling april his scheme, but making himself look like the good guy. Sure it is pretty cliche, but pretty realistic. Ancient warlords just wanted power. If Shredder is a traditional Japanese war lord, there is no reason to give him a deeper reason for world domination. If he is something more then they just left it out for sequel building blocks.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Well we really don't know if the virus killed the guy. We just see him fall on the floor and rash appear on his body. We do know it has the potential to kill because of Eric Sachs comment about the death toll being large. But he also mentions that NY would be under a quarantine and will need his cure, which the government will give him money for it. The money then will help build Shredder empire. The reason why Shredder is doing what he is doing is to rebuild the foot clan to its ancient dominant statis. Shredder to Kari, " The foot clan will rise again. We will reclaim victory." Sachs tell april about an ancient war lord who poisoned the water supply, and an Alchemist who purified the water. Pretty much telling april his scheme, but making himself look like the good guy. Sure it is pretty cliche, but pretty realistic. Ancient warlords just wanted power. If Shredder is a traditional Japanese war lord, there is no reason to give him a deeper reason for world domination. If he is something more then they just left it out for sequel building blocks.

Thanks artist, I feel a bit better now that you pointed out that shredder wanted to take over new york by going down that path, earlier on I felt like saki was made to look like second in command with the tower bit and believed that it was only sacks who was for the plan.

[Artist]

Thanks artist, I feel a bit better now that you pointed out that shredder wanted to take over new york by going down that path, earlier on I felt like saki was made to look like second in command with the tower bit and believed that it was only sacks who was for his plan.

Ya I have watched the movie 4 times already ha and you catch little things the more you watch it. The first time It did seem that Sachs was holding all the cards. But knowing what Shredder wants to rebuild the foot clan to what it was helps iron out the Shredder being the card holder.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

What makes this version of shredder interesting is his lack of reaction to the notion of a mutated rat and turtles. He treat's the idea of them as no big deal, his silence says it all, it's like he's seen creatures from earth like that before.

[Artist]

What makes this version of shredder interesting is his lack of reaction to the notion of a mutated rat and turtles. He treat's the idea of them as no big deal, his silence says it all, it's like he's seen creatures from earth like that before.

Ha its like, hey your in my way like all this other crap, so buy buy now. He really is so dominating in this version. Might be Utrom Shredder still. My sister in law said she noticed his stomach area kinda opening and closing. She never has even heard of Utrom shredder. He also said, Tonight I dine on turtle soup. I almost cried with exitment :D

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Ha its like, hey your in my way like all this other crap, so buy buy now. He really is so dominating in this version. Might be Utrom Shredder still. My sister in law said she noticed his stomach area kinda opening and closing. She never has even heard of Utrom shredder. He also said, Tonight I dine on turtle soup. I almost cried with exitment :D

If he was an alien we would have seen his alien form, and if he was I would have been disappointed.

[Warboss74]

They call it mutagen because that's what the substance was called in the 87 toon. It was designed as a cure by Sacks and O'Neil the whole time. Why call a cure Mutagen when that would mean it was meant to mutate something? They would have Cleary seen if giving the baby turtles superpowers as April caught it on film as a little girl.

As for the plan, Shredder was committing suicide because of his open eye holes on his helmet.

[Coola Yagami]

Something that would fixed this would have been Shredder betraying Sachs and revealing all along that there was no cure, and he was planning on killing everyone in the city, and mutating the survivors that actually paid for the cure.

[nellyp]

In the IDW comic Mutagen is used as a cure and while it is too soon to tell it didn't have any negative side effects. They could have been using that as their angle.

[Coola Yagami]

In the IDW comic Mutagen is used as a cure and while it is too soon to tell it didn't have any negative side effects. They could have been using that as their angle.

I think I mentioned that earlier in this topic. The comic specifically states that the ooze is what cures and the mutagen mutates. This movie didn't bother to separate that.

[Electric]

I think I mentioned that earlier in this topic. The comic specifically states that the ooze is what cures and the mutagen mutates. This movie didn't bother to separate that.

but see i feel this movie did. the ooze wasnt exactly named, but i think we overlook aprils line about it being from outerspace. her father didnt correct her. then sacks says they created the mutagen, and i took that as they made it from the ooze april saw, and injected it in the turtles and splinter.

[Coola Yagami]

but see i feel this movie did. the ooze wasnt exactly named, but i think we overlook aprils line about it being from outerspace. her father didnt correct her. then sacks says they created the mutagen, and i took that as they made it from the ooze april saw, and injected it in the turtles and splinter.

That's still reaching badly. April wouldn't know about where it came from, wether or not Sachs corrected her means nothing. Has HE said it.... then yeah, that's a big difference. I guess a sequel can expand on that... but ugh.... I sure don't want a continuation of this mess.

[sethmartin]

The gas thing was dumb. Now if they needed the turtles blood because they wanted to create other mutants, that would have been awesome. The turtles should have faced another mutant in this before facing the shredder.