The episode idea thread (Turtle Torture Edition)

[victory_angel]

I know we already have an episode idea thread, but recent episodes have shown that the episodes will get darker, and the upcoming episodes have certainly hinted there is more dark things to come.

So what sort of things and events do you wish to see the Turtles and family go through. You can get as physical or as painful as you want. But please nothing too adult oriented.

We've already had Leo beaten within an inch of his life.

Donnie is able to create a substance that the Food Clan and other groups want. And said knowledge could potentially play an important role in the ballence between good and evil.

Raph we know there is supposedly a Dark Raph story line coming sometime down the season.

And Mikey is one of the most volatile of them all.


I look forward to seeing your ideas

[Powder]

I want the acid Karai spit on Raph to have lasting effects that cause him to wear an eye-patch. I'd like to see Donnie experiment with nanotechnology that eventually takes over his body, making reference to the Image series.

[Luckyday]

Alright this really dark and mean but here it goes

April gets cancer.

How she gets it is due to her telepathic blast that she emits whenever she is in danger by the kraang and reason why is because those blast are actually electromagnetic so every time she does it, her body goes under huge amount of electromagnetic radiation and by the time she discover the cause it's too late and she lost the use of her legs, but she beats it through support and will power and by the time she is 40, she is a master telepath codebreaker.

[victory_angel]

Everyone is escaping a Kraang facility when they come to a point where they can't go any further. Donnie figures out how what needs to be done in order for them to escape, but that means he has to be left behind. Leo, April, Mikey, and Casey don't like the idea. And Raph is absolutely against the idea because no turtle left behind.

Donnie tells them there is no choice in the matter and someone need stay behind to man the controls, insisting he will be fine and if there is another way out he'd find it. Leo protests this and says that if one of them has to go out then they would all go out as a family. Donnie appears to agree with Leo, but before the others can get off the transport ledge, Donnie closes the blast doors on them and activates the escape transport. The last thing they see of their brother is him smiling at them sadly before he turns to face a group of Kraang that have burst into the room.

[snake]

SAINW style future episode with Armaggon.

[Papenbrook]

Splinter dies while fighting with Shredder.

[Amaranthus]

I want them to use the retromutagen to get Baxter to mess with Bebop and Rocksteady's mutagen, so they turn dumb.
I doubt that will happen. But it would be nice because I feel sorry for Baxter.

[shredder orokusaki]

splinter dies while fighting with shredder.

this this!! I want it so much!!!!

[Amaranthus]

this this!! I want it so much!!!!

You must be the coolest kid in class, am I right?

[Vicky82]

April's powers become dangerous and give her great deal of pain maybe even killing her slowly, so Donnie works on something to help April.

Or

April is having trouble to contol her powers, her powers get too powerful and she becomes dark. (so it be similar to X-Men's Dark Phoenix story).



This is part of the Dark Raph Story, sorry if it's confusing.

Season final

Shredder is pissed that Karai is now with Splinter so he decides to take away one of his sons, which is Raph and bring him to his side. So Raph is kidnapped and he is brainwashed, to control Raph.

When the other turtles, Karia and Splinter come to rescue Raph, they shocked to find out that Raph is on Shredder's side but they know that Shredder must have done something to him. Raph discards his red mask and tries to attack Splinter but Leo blocks him but just as Raph is about to attack Leo and the other henchman attack too, Casey and April come crashing in the turtle van and Leo says we have to retreat but Mikey doesn't want to leave without Raph but he's dragged into the van by Leo and they drive off. In the van they are all upset, Leo is comforting Mikey, who's really upset and we see he's holding Raphs mask.

Later on, Leo plans to get Raph back he will ask for help, maybe Leatherhead and Slash. Meanwhile Raph is having flashbacks.

When the fight happens, it will have a Leo vs Raph fight. It will end up everyone captured and Shredder forces Raph to kill one of his brothers to prove his loyalty to him. Shredder chooses Mikey. Mikey keeps talking to Raph to try snap him out of it and Raph is having another flashback and makes him disoriantated and says this is wrong and can't kill him. Shredder gets pissed and goes to attack Raph but Mikey saves him but he gets badly hurt in the processs. Raphs memory comes back when he sees Mikey injured and he's pissed and attacks Shredder. This ends up another fight, Leo vs Shredder and Shredder is defeated possibly 'dead'.

Mikey is badly injured and they have to get him back to the lair. In the Turtle Van Mikey is in Raphs arms and he has to keep Mikey talking and not to fall asleep. Mikey is happy that Raph is back to his old self and gives him his red mask back to him. Mikey then falls unconsious and even stops breathing and it becomes a mass panic and then the episode ends.

I do have another idea that it's Raph, who injures Mikey, which makes Raph snap out of his brainwashing.

1st episode of Season 4

We see Mikey getting hurt by Shredder, Raph sees this and he can't get to Mikey and he sees him die. Raph wakes up screaming for Mikey, we hear Mikey asking Raph if he's ok, Raph says yeah and tells Mikey to go back to sleep.

They are at the farm so Mikey can heal from his injuries and help Raph from his mental trauma due to his brainwashing.

[Bitsy83]

(Sorry for repeating myself. I've mentioned this in other threads)

Since a lot of us are speculating that Donnie will be targeted by Shredder in the later half of Season 3, and it's been confirmed that we might get a bit more dimensional traveling for the Turtles, I think I have an idea of how they could pull off those two ideas:

When they come back to New York, the Foot overhears the Turtles talking about making retromutagen to help the Kraangified citizens of New York. Shredder decides it'd be safer to get the cure from the Turtles instead of trusting the Kraang since they don't care for the human race and makes plans to kidnap Donnie, but he wants to make sure the Turtles have no way of rescuing him. So he sets up a plan.

He forms some plan that forces the Turtles to separate with Donnie (a fake bomb, some technological device that only he can solve while the others are fighting). While the Turtles are preoccupied, Tiger Claw and some Foot Bots attack Donnie and capture him, taking him back to the headquarters. The others find out about this and quickly go to his rescue.

The Turtles, Casey, and April find Stockman and force him to tell him where they're hiding Donnie. He says how the Shredder made plans with the Kraang to make Donnie a prisoner in Dimension X to obtain the retromutagen. The Turtles track down Tiger Claw and find him before a portal, speaking with Kraang soldiers. In his claw, he's holding Donnie's mask, telling them that they're too late and Donnie is already in Dimension X. Tiger Claw runs through the portal and the others follow. While they all end up in Dimension X, Tiger Claw takes a separate portal back to Earth and destroys the portal leading back home. Not only that, but when the Turtles reach Dimension X, they are greeted by an army of Kraang soldiers waiting for them.

(They escape, of course, but I figured that while they're trying to get back home, they wind up in the 80s dimension and that could be a good comic relief story. Plus they'd be weirded out by O.T. Raphael sounding like Donnie. Also, they would meet up with the original Bebop and Rocksteady and when they return to New York after the Russian Guy (forgot his name) and the cyberpunk thief (forgot his name too) get mutated, Mikey calls them that. ;) )

Meanwhile, Donnie is chained up in Shredder's dungeon and Shredder tells him what has happened to not only his brothers, but his friends Casey and April. Donnie is horrified, but still tries to stay strong because A) he knows that Mikey is an expert in Dimension X so he can keep the team safe until they find a way back home and B) he is the element of the Mountain, so he stands his ground and refuses to give Shredder any help. Over the next few days, Donnie has not only been beaten up everyday by Rahzor and Fishface, but also starved and chained for every second he's their prisoner.

Now I could see one or two things happening. Either Karai will be secretly visiting him in the cell to give him water and food to keep him sustained long enough for her to come up with an escape plan for him OR Tang Shen will appear in spirit form in his dreams/visions, giving him strength and telling him to remain strong until his brothers save him.

That's about all I've got. I love this Donnie so much, so why do I want to see this happen so badly?!?!

[drag0nfeathers]

April's powers become dangerous and give her great deal of pain maybe even killing her slowly, so Donnie works on something to help April.

Or

April is having trouble to contol her powers, her powers get too powerful and she becomes dark. (so it be similar to X-Men's Dark Phoenix story).



This is part of the Dark Raph Story, sorry if it's confusing.

Season final

Shredder is pissed that Karai is now with Splinter so he decides to take away one of his sons, which is Raph and bring him to his side. So Raph is kidnapped and he is brainwashed, to control Raph.

When the other turtles, Karia and Splinter come to rescue Raph, they shocked to find out that Raph is on Shredder's side but they know that Shredder must have done something to him. Raph discards his red mask and tries to attack Splinter but Leo blocks him but just as Raph is about to attack Leo and the other henchman attack too, Casey and April come crashing in the turtle van and Leo says we have to retreat but Mikey doesn't want to leave without Raph but he's dragged into the van by Leo and they drive off. In the van they are all upset, Leo is comforting Mikey, who's really upset and we see he's holding Raphs mask.

Later on, Leo plans to get Raph back he will ask for help, maybe Leatherhead and Slash. Meanwhile Raph is having flashbacks.

When the fight happens, it will have a Leo vs Raph fight. It will end up everyone captured and Shredder forces Raph to kill one of his brothers to prove his loyalty to him. Shredder chooses Mikey. Mikey keeps talking to Raph to try snap him out of it and Raph is having another flashback and makes him disoriantated and says this is wrong and can't kill him. Shredder gets pissed and goes to attack Raph but Mikey saves him but he gets badly hurt in the processs. Raphs memory comes back when he sees Mikey injured and he's pissed and attacks Shredder. This ends up another fight, Leo vs Shredder and Shredder is defeated possibly 'dead'.

Mikey is badly injured and they have to get him back to the lair. In the Turtle Van Mikey is in Raphs arms and he has to keep Mikey talking and not to fall asleep. Mikey is happy that Raph is back to his old self and gives him his red mask back to him. Mikey then falls unconsious and even stops breathing and it becomes a mass panic and then the episode ends.

I do have another idea that it's Raph, who injures Mikey, which makes Raph snap out of his brainwashing.

1st episode of Season 4

We see Mikey getting hurt by Shredder, Raph sees this and he can't get to Mikey and he sees him die. Raph wakes up screaming for Mikey, we hear Mikey asking Raph if he's ok, Raph says yeah and tells Mikey to go back to sleep.

They are at the farm so Mikey can heal from his injuries and help Raph from his mental trauma due to his brainwashing.

Wow, I really love this idea <3

[victory_angel]

the turtles are knocked unconcious and wake find themselves in the hands of the EPF and confronted with Agent Bishop.

Agent Bishop comes in and removes Donnie from the group to be studied. Leo and Raph demand to be know what is going to be done to their brother. Bishop just smirks and says "You mean your friend." He then said that he had taken blood and tissue samples from each of them and discovered that Donnie's DNA differed from the other three. Donatello is devistated by this news as he is dragged away.

April, Casey, and Splinter rescue the other Turtles. Mikey tells Splinter that Donnie had been dragged away to be experimented on. The others arrive to in time to stop Bishop from performing a vivisection on Donatello and escape. Later that evening Donnie does a DNA test on his brothers and himself and discovers that what Bishop said was true. Leo, Raph, and Mikey however comforts him and says that the test results didn't matter. They were raised together as brothers and valued each other in that manner. Just because someone says that they aren't related doesn't make the former fact any less true.

[Luckyday]

the turtles are knocked unconcious and wake find themselves in the hands of the EPF and confronted with Agent Bishop.

Agent Bishop comes in and removes Donnie from the group to be studied. Leo and Raph demand to be know what is going to be done to their brother. Bishop just smirks and says "You mean your friend." He then said that he had taken blood and tissue samples from each of them and discovered that Donnie's DNA differed from the other three. Donatello is devistated by this news as he is dragged away.

April, Casey, and Splinter rescue the other Turtles. Mikey tells Splinter that Donnie had been dragged away to be experimented on. The others arrive to in time to stop Bishop from performing a vivisection on Donatello and escape. Later that evening Donnie does a DNA test on his brothers and himself and discovers that what Bishop said was true. Leo, Raph, and Mikey however comforts him and says that the test results didn't matter. They were raised together as brothers and valued each other in that manner. Just because someone says that they aren't related doesn't make the former fact any less true.

I am not going to say "damnit why aren't you a writer for this show?" because I probably have said too many times before but I will say that you have this ability to present use or overdone ideas and some how make them sound interesting and captivating again. Your stories also heart wrenching but not over the top or OOC and feel in tune with the tone of the show or at least with tone of season 1.

I hope that we get Agent Bishop or better yet both Agent Bishop and H.A.V.O.C at the same time because those are such interesting opposing sides and there a lot potential for a great season to happen with new factions who are parallel to each other and be great if both are show to be morally gray rather then downright evil.

[victory_angel]

I am not going to say "damnit why aren't you a writer for this show?" because I probably have said too many times before but I will say that you have this ability to present use or overdone ideas and some how make them sound interesting and captivating again. Your stories also heart wrenching but not over the top or OOC and feel in tune with the tone of the show or at least with tone of season 1.

I hope that we get Agent Bishop or better yet both Agent Bishop and H.A.V.O.C at the same time because those are such interesting opposing sides and there a lot potential for a great season to happen with new factions who are parallel to each other and be great if both are show to be morally gray rather then downright evil.

Dark Raph foreshadowing. There is a moment in Wrath of Tiger Claw where Donnie tells Raph he shouldn't trust anyone. And in Slash and Destroy, Donnie does tell Raph and Mikey that the person who attacked him was similar to Raph but angrier. Another piece of foreshadowing was when they were having that group sparing match. Mikey belches in Donnie's face disorienting him before the fight, and Raph takes advantage of that and takes Donnie out immediately.

So if Raph is brainwashed, perhaps the memories of his brothers and father would be of the moments where his family is chastizing him. Chastizing him for letting his anger get the better of him, for being impatient, and so on. But some memories are twisted so he sees his brothers talking about him behind his back. Or giving an innocent smack talk back to him which is twisted to sound like an insult. Peppered though with Donnie telling him he shouldn't trust anyone.

And that turns Raph evil and says he's knows which brother he's starting with.

I hope that we get Agent Bishop or better yet both Agent Bishop and H.A.V.O.C at the same time because those are such interesting opposing sides and there a lot potential for a great season to happen with new factions who are parallel to each other and be great if both are show to be morally gray rather then downright evil


The Hamato Clan represents all that is good and noble. Doing what should be done for the greater good.

The Foot Clan is all that is evil and selfishness. Taking what you want without any care for who gets hurt in the long run.


While Bishop and H.A.V.O.C. are two sides of morally gray.

Bishop feels what he does is for the betterment and the protection of humans. So mutants in his mind are just non-humans to him and the planet earth would be better off without their existance.

But H.A.V.O.C. wants the betterment of mutant kind. However they feel the humans are the problem and the world would be better off if everyone was a mutant.

With the Kraang story coming to an end, I can see Donnie being involved in the Bishop plot lines. Because one they have the same goal but different ideals of that goal. And there is much that both can learn from each other.


We don't know if Dark Raphael will be working for Shredder. He could find himself at odds with his family and join H.A.V.O.C. because he feels like they understand him better. However he soon comes across something in H.A.V.O.C. that doesn't seem all that kosher. But when he tries to stop it on his own, he gets caught and brainwashed into serving their cause. While in this state he tells Titanus (the leader of H.A.V.O.C.) that his brother Donatello is able to create Retromutagen.

[Luckyday]

Dark Raph foreshadowing. There is a moment in Wrath of Tiger Claw where Donnie tells Raph he shouldn't trust anyone. And in Slash and Destroy, Donnie does tell Raph and Mikey that the person who attacked him was similar to Raph but angrier. Another piece of foreshadowing was when they were having that group sparing match. Mikey belches in Donnie's face disorienting him before the fight, and Raph takes advantage of that and takes Donnie out immediately.

So if Raph is brainwashed, perhaps the memories of his brothers and father would be of the moments where his family is chastizing him. Chastizing him for letting his anger get the better of him, for being impatient, and so on. But some memories are twisted so he sees his brothers talking about him behind his back. Or giving an innocent smack talk back to him which is twisted to sound like an insult. Peppered though with Donnie telling him he shouldn't trust anyone.

And that turns Raph evil and says he's knows which brother he's starting with.


It sounds like the drugs are distorting his perception but what sets it off as a catalyst is his paranoia which I like more because it's not completely out of the void. There are things fueling that distortion



The Hamato Clan represents all that is good and noble. Doing what should be done for the greater good.

The Foot Clan is all that is evil and selfishness. Taking what you want without any care for who gets hurt in the long run.


While Bishop and H.A.V.O.C. are two sides of morally gray.

Bishop feels what he does is for the betterment and the protection of humans. So mutants in his mind are just non-humans to him and the planet earth would be better off without their existance.

But H.A.V.O.C. wants the betterment of mutant kind. However they feel the humans are the problem and the world would be better off if everyone was a mutant.

With the Kraang story coming to an end, I can see Donnie being involved in the Bishop plot lines. Because one they have the same goal but different ideals of that goal. And there is much that both can learn from each other.


We don't know if Dark Raphael will be working for Shredder. He could find himself at odds with his family and join H.A.V.O.C. because he feels like they understand him better. However he soon comes across something in H.A.V.O.C. that doesn't seem all that kosher. But when he tries to stop it on his own, he gets caught and brainwashed into serving their cause. While in this state he tells Titanus (the leader of H.A.V.O.C.) that his brother Donatello is able to create Retromutagen.

http://i.imgur.com/lhjhbB9.gif
You know, it just write the fan fiction already. I can't bother and hope that the show will might think of this story arc in the future. A tightly written story arc is apparently asking too much for this show.

[Jephael]

I had the freakiest dream last night where the guys were dealing with some weird parasitic alien creature that looked like a crab and it somehow effected Michelangelo, making his skin all scabby. It was really creepy.

[snake]

You must be the coolest kid in class, am I right?

He is the shredder, so he's bound to be edgy.

[victory_angel]

April has a dream of seeing everyon eshe cares about turn on her or taken from her by the Shredder, the Kraang, and any enemy they have faced. This causes her to wake up screaming only to find herself in the Turtles new lair.

The next day April says she is the cause of everything. If it wasn't for her the Kraang would have come to the city, she would never have met the Turtles and thus brought about Shredder arrival. Leo and the other Turtles try to say all the good she's brought about it. But unfortunately they do a poor job in convincing her. April tells everyone she's going to go take a walk, Donnie offers to join her. April appriciates the gesture but insists she needs to be alone for a while.

[Fang Wolf]

Shredder sees Tang Shen in spirit form; he becomes enchanted of the illusion.
He follows her and falling down from skyscraper and broke his spine badly.
- End of Shredder - He can never Fight again.
(It's my dark idea........)

[victory_angel]

In Mutagen Man Unleashed, there is a moment where Splinter has a private lesson with Donatello. The lesson of course was learning to like falling down which was meant to be used as an alagory for forcing April to return his feelings.

But it was also to help derail Donnie from falling down the same path that the Shredder had.

Years ago Tang Shen could have chosen Hamato Yoshi or Oroku Saki has her husbend. When Tang Shen chose Hamato Yoshi as her husbend, Oroku Saki could not accept it and was consumed by his jealousy.

While it appears that April is seeing Donnie more as her chosen suitor and Casey more as a friend, neither boy has officially grasped that yet.

Casey assumes that since he is able to hang out with April more he's the one she will more then likely choose. However one time he comes across April only to find her embracing Donnie. Casey is angry about this, and confronts April about it later.

April tries to skirt the subject not wanting to get into as "Who should love who" issue. Casey however insists that she come clean about who she wants. April sighs and tells Casey, she likes him...but she loves Donnie.

Casey isn't ready to accept that he has lost April as a girl friend and in tries to insist she's making a big mistake. April tells him that the reason she has psychic powers is because she isn't human...not completely at least. She has Kraang DNA and that is why the Kraang want her. Casey is taken aback to learn the girl he has feelings for is essentually related to the alien scum that had taken over the city. And whats worse is that the people he thought of as friends knew about it and didn't bother telling him.

He gets angry and says "So thats why New York's been Kraangitized...because of you." April tries to insist that she never wanted the invasion to happen. Casey however is beyond listening and storms off.

Raph meets up with Casey later and finds him in a sour mood. Casey asks how long Raph had known, April was part alien. Raph says that Donnie discovered that before Casey had ever encountered them. Casey gets more upset and demands to know why they never told him about that. Raph answered that April had trouble accepting it herself.

[Luckyday]

In Mutagen Man Unleashed, there is a moment where Splinter has a private lesson with Donatello. The lesson of course was learning to like falling down which was meant to be used as an alagory for forcing April to return his feelings.

But it was also to help derail Donnie from falling down the same path that the Shredder had.

Years ago Tang Shen could have chosen Hamato Yoshi or Oroku Saki has her husbend. When Tang Shen chose Hamato Yoshi as her husbend, Oroku Saki could not accept it and was consumed by his jealousy.

While it appears that April is seeing Donnie more as her chosen suitor and Casey more as a friend, neither boy has officially grasped that yet.

Casey assumes that since he is able to hang out with April more he's the one she will more then likely choose. However one time he comes across April only to find her embracing Donnie. Casey is angry about this, and confronts April about it later.

April tries to skirt the subject not wanting to get into as "Who should love who" issue. Casey however insists that she come clean about who she wants. April sighs and tells Casey, she likes him...but she loves Donnie.

Casey isn't ready to accept that he has lost April as a girl friend and in tries to insist she's making a big mistake. April tells him that the reason she has psychic powers is because she isn't human...not completely at least. She has Kraang DNA and that is why the Kraang want her. Casey is taken aback to learn the girl he has feelings for is essentually related to the alien scum that had taken over the city.

He gets angry and says "So thats why New York's been Kraangitized...because of you." April tries to insist that she never wanted the invasion to happen. Casey however is beyond listening and storms off.

The show hasn't really gone in depth on how April's feels about being a mutant but this is an excellent way to readdress this and at the same time this has more a nice juicy conflict then the other one although I guess that other one was more of a internal conflict for April.

I like it.http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/omges1.png

[CaliperCat]

I really, really like your idea Victory Angel. It'd create some nice inner conflict, fill a plot hole or two, and sort of start to tie up the Apritello arc all in one episode.

Not a super dark idea, and it's in spoiler tags for those who either haven't seen the new clip in the Season Three Official Info Thread, or who don't want to, but...

If you've seen the clip posted from the upcoming Chimera episode, you can see that Leo's knee is still bothering him quite a bit. This indicates that the knee injury may be somewhat permanent, since it's been over three months since Leo injured it. Naturally, this gives Leo even more doubts about his ability to lead his brothers, because how can he lead them when he can't even run/jump/otherwise ninja properly? Therefore, he goes into his Spirit Quest feeling even more doubtful than usual. He struggles to complete his Spirit Quest tasks thanks to his knee, and finally, exhausted, he gives up and quits. In frustration, he shouts that he can't do it, he can't complete his quest, because there's no point: He can't lead the team like this, in his current crippled state. He turns, and begins to limp away, when his vision begins to fill with little white spots, bordered with black around the edges. Although he fights against it, he passes out. When he wakes up, several hours later, he finds himself sprawled out in the position he collapsed in. However, he feels different. When he rises, he finds that his knee no longer bothers him, no matter how rigorously he tests it. It is this that helps him realize that he's meant to lead the Turtles, and that they must not put off returning to New York any longer (something he's let his doubts and injury prevent him from suggesting). When the Turtles return from their individual quests, he announces that it's time for them to start preparing to defeat Shredder and the Kraang.

[Tarris Vaal]

Love the idea that one of the turtles turns out not to be a true relation - though instead of Donnie, perhaps Raph? That would give more reason for him to feel separated from the others, and make it more meaningful to accept him as one of their own towards the end of a Dark Raph arc.

I also agree Capritello needs to come to some kind of conclusion. My worry would be that after all this dragging out that the writers feel the need to suddenly rush it to a conclusion. After all this time, I'd rather it gets conclusively wrapped up in 10 episodes than suddenly sorted and near forgotten in just 1.

I also liked the idea of one of the turtles becoming human briefly - Donnie is a prime candidate for this especially. Perhaps a one/two parter where he is exposed accidentally to a retromutagen accident, becomes fully human rather than reverting to a turtle (though he could panic about it first)? It could lead to an interesting change in dynamic as to how his relationship with April might develop, but risk losing him as a member of the team as he loses his strength/agility.
In effect he has to pick between a potential future with her and staying with his brothers, and really tortures himself over what to do.
You could even further this by suggesting he becomes 'addicted' to being human, treating the retromutagen like a drug (thereby covering the 'drugs are bad m'kay' angle), further dividing him from his brothers and possibly April as well.
Have either Splinter, April or Michaelangelo (or combination) come to his aid in deciding how to proceed and in the end he uses the last batch of the retromutagen to cure Timothy and sacrifices his chance to be human.

[victory_angel]

Love the idea that one of the turtles turns out not to be a true relation - though instead of Donnie, perhaps Raph? That would give more reason for him to feel separated from the others, and make it more meaningful to accept him as one of their own towards the end of a Dark Raph arc.


What if one isn't a true relation and another being a half sibling.

[CaliperCat]

I also liked the idea of one of the turtles becoming human briefly - Donnie is a prime candidate for this especially. Perhaps a one/two parter where he is exposed accidentally to a retromutagen accident, becomes fully human rather than reverting to a turtle (though he could panic about it first)? It could lead to an interesting change in dynamic as to how his relationship with April might develop, but risk losing him as a member of the team as he loses his strength/agility.
In effect he has to pick between a potential future with her and staying with his brothers, and really tortures himself over what to do.
You could even further this by suggesting he becomes 'addicted' to being human, treating the retromutagen like a drug (thereby covering the 'drugs are bad m'kay' angle), further dividing him from his brothers and possibly April as well.
Have either Splinter, April or Michaelangelo (or combination) come to his aid in deciding how to proceed and in the end he uses the last batch of the retromutagen to cure Timothy and sacrifices his chance to be human.

I really like this idea as well. Of all the turtles, Donnie just seems to have that vibe of always wanting to be a little more than what he is. His brothers are all more-or-less purely ninja, and are mostly content with that (although if they could become accepted by the public, to where they wouldn't have to hide, they'd all be thrilled). Donnie's got that major intellectual side going, though, and his crush on April is big enough that I could see him being willing to sacrifice all of his more "unnatural" characteristics for her. It could also be a good way to cover the, "be comfortable in your own skin, even if you're different" angle, as well as showing that sometimes you have to try new things in order to know who you really want to be.

Also, welcome! :)

[Luckyday]

Love the idea that one of the turtles turns out not to be a true relation - though instead of Donnie, perhaps Raph? That would give more reason for him to feel separated from the others, and make it more meaningful to accept him as one of their own towards the end of a Dark Raph arc.

I also agree Capritello needs to come to some kind of conclusion. My worry would be that after all this dragging out that the writers feel the need to suddenly rush it to a conclusion. After all this time, I'd rather it gets conclusively wrapped up in 10 episodes than suddenly sorted and near forgotten in just 1.

I also liked the idea of one of the turtles becoming human briefly - Donnie is a prime candidate for this especially. Perhaps a one/two parter where he is exposed accidentally to a retromutagen accident, becomes fully human rather than reverting to a turtle (though he could panic about it first)? It could lead to an interesting change in dynamic as to how his relationship with April might develop, but risk losing him as a member of the team as he loses his strength/agility.
In effect he has to pick between a potential future with her and staying with his brothers, and really tortures himself over what to do.
You could even further this by suggesting he becomes 'addicted' to being human, treating the retromutagen like a drug (thereby covering the 'drugs are bad m'kay' angle), further dividing him from his brothers and possibly April as well.
Have either Splinter, April or Michaelangelo (or combination) come to his aid in deciding how to proceed and in the end he uses the last batch of the retromutagen to cure Timothy and sacrifices his chance to be human.

This is a minor nitpick but it almost undermines that turtles had to trained and work hard become good as they are now, but understandable since it gives Donnie a reason to go back to being a turtle but what if his reason is because having a human body feels uncomfortable to him and dealing with all of the biological differences that humans have to deal with on the daily basis that he might find annoying and stressful?

On a mental level, would Donnie suffer an identity crisis?

[victory_angel]

This is a minor nitpick but it almost undermines that turtles had to trained and work hard become good as they are now, but understandable since it gives Donnie a reason to go back to being a turtle but what if his reason is because having a human body feels uncomfortable to him and dealing with all of the biological differences that humans have to deal with on the daily basis that he might find annoying and stressful?

On a mental level, would Donnie suffer an identity crisis?

It's an interesting idea to be sure. Donnie turning into a human he would be able to experience and spend time with April in ways he wasn't able to before.

I don't know about having the lack of ninja skill, I mean yeah he would lack some of the durablity and abilities he had as a Turtle. Such as ducking into his shell to avoid being seriously hurt. But the ninja skill is something he'd still be able to retain since that was taught to him. At worst he might be somewhat clumsy because he'd be so used to fighting with the familiar weight of his shell and such.

What would be really awkward is that the Turtles don't ware clothes so if such a situation did occur, Donnie would be bare ass naked.

[Tarris Vaal]

What would be really awkward is that the Turtles don't ware clothes so if such a situation did occur, Donnie would be bare ass naked.

Unless he's picked up Mikey's habit of wearing underwear ;)

Also, welcome!

Thank you :)

It could also be a good way to cover the, "be comfortable in your own skin, even if you're different" angle, as well as showing that sometimes you have to try new things in order to know who you really want to be.

Very much this! Though this has been touched upon with Splinter already.



I'd also kind of like to see Timothy's problem resolved in some way. I think given that the retromutagen has been described as difficult to make (and correspondingly rare) that it should be a real hard choice to make between curing him and using it for something else. April's dad and Karai are 2 options, but Splinter has already said he doesn't see the need for it anymore. I think giving a selfish choice as the alternative (such as being human) could really help emphasize it as a hard decision.

But the ninja skill is something he'd still be able to retain since that was taught to him. At worst he might be somewhat clumsy because he'd be so used to fighting with the familiar weight of his shell and such.

Sorry guys, that was my mistake! I was under the impression they had enhanced strength/endurance on top of the ninja skills. Not sure where I got that from :tconfuse:

On a mental level, would Donnie suffer an identity crisis?

That could be great fun :) Anything that gives the others a good excuse to talk him around. 2k12 is always at its best when they have good character interaction between the turtles themselves

[victory_angel]

With the Mutagen Man plot line, I think thats being set up so it doesn't end well.

1. Strongly stated that by training the Pulverizer, Donnie is responcible for whatever happens as a result.

2. The others don't seem to know Donnie had taken Timothy as a student. If they had perhaps they wouldn't have been as dismissive as they were when Donnie was telling them they needed to get him out of the Foot Clan.

3. When Donnie takes off on his own to go after the Pulverizer, Leo sighs as if saying "What is wrong with you, Donnie?"

4. There is a moment where Leo is going to slay Mutagen Man, and Donnie jumps in front of him saying "No, don't hurt him."

5. When Donnie is knocked aside, Leo falls back and tells him that Timothy isn't there anymore.

6. Leo and Raph seem suprised and confused by the fact that Donnie isn't taking the defeat of Mutagen man as a victory.


We know Mutagen Man is a reoccuring villain and he had to be left behind at the lair when the Turtles and Co evacuated the city. The upcoming moments they are at the lair, I don't think they are there to reclaim it. I think they are at their old lair to get supplies or what belongings they can salvage as the Foot and the Kraang would have likely gone there to see if there was any way of learning where the Turtles had escaped to. Or looking for Donnie's notes and things on retromutagen (Foreshadowing the Foot and or the Kraang wanting to capture Donnie or end Donnie's life because of it.) So I don't think it won't be likely that Mutagen Man would be in the lair when the Turtles return.

I think when they find Mutagen Man, he would be wanting revenge on the Turtles for what he is. And also towards Donnie for betraying him and putting him on ice. He sees April with Donnie and Casey, becoming enraged by this. The reason he liked her before was because she had devorced herself from the Turtles. Since he blamed the Turtles for his mutation he felt April is someone he could commiserate with.

He attacks them, the three of them face off against Mutagen Man. Casey presses the contact button on his phone telling Raph what they are facing off against so the other Turtles rush to aid their brother and friends. Donnie tries to reason with Mutagen Man, but he's too angry and feral minded to listen. Instead he says "Mutagen Man hate, Donnie. Donnie hurt me, take April."

The others arrive and fight him until they can retreat. Donnie gives Mutagen man one sad look before dropping his head sorrowfully and walking away. Back at the new lair Donnie informs everyone that had taken Timothy as a student when they had first met him.

The others are shocked at this and there are a few "What were you even thinking?" remarks from Raph, Casey, and Mikey. Leo and April are a bit more understanding, and both of them ask Donnie if there is anything that could be done, possibly being able to see reason. He however doesn't think it's possible to get him to see reason anymore.

As the series progresses Donnie tries get Retromutagen ready. He also is trying to devise a way to get the retromutagen in a way can be released and cure the populous of the city who have been mutated by the Kraanng.

Eventually they get to a battle where everyone fights mutagen man. It somes to a point where Leo, Raph, Mikey, April, and Casey are in danger and Donnie is forced to make a hard choice between sparing Timothy at the cost of his family or slaying Timothy to save his family.

I believe fire destroys mutagen as there have been moments we have seen that happen. But I wouldn't be surprised if the nick show introduces another way to destroy pure mutagen as well.

Donnie falls to his knees as he watches Timothy die, knowing he is now responcible for his death. Leo causiously approches his brother and kneels close to him. No words are said between them. Everyone else watches them with various degrees of sadness and concern.

Back at the lair. Splinter leaves Donatello's room and Raph asks if Donnie will be alright. Splinter sighs and says that only time will tell as this event has brought about a great change in his inteligent son's spirit and the best they can do is let him have his space and guide him back the best they can.

[aliena]

April's powers become dangerous and give her great deal of pain maybe even killing her slowly, so Donnie works on something to help April.

Or

April is having trouble to contol her powers, her powers get too powerful and she becomes dark. (so it be similar to X-Men's Dark Phoenix story).



This is part of the Dark Raph Story, sorry if it's confusing.

Season final

Shredder is pissed that Karai is now with Splinter so he decides to take away one of his sons, which is Raph and bring him to his side. So Raph is kidnapped and he is brainwashed, to control Raph.

When the other turtles, Karia and Splinter come to rescue Raph, they shocked to find out that Raph is on Shredder's side but they know that Shredder must have done something to him. Raph discards his red mask and tries to attack Splinter but Leo blocks him but just as Raph is about to attack Leo and the other henchman attack too, Casey and April come crashing in the turtle van and Leo says we have to retreat but Mikey doesn't want to leave without Raph but he's dragged into the van by Leo and they drive off. In the van they are all upset, Leo is comforting Mikey, who's really upset and we see he's holding Raphs mask.

Later on, Leo plans to get Raph back he will ask for help, maybe Leatherhead and Slash. Meanwhile Raph is having flashbacks.

When the fight happens, it will have a Leo vs Raph fight. It will end up everyone captured and Shredder forces Raph to kill one of his brothers to prove his loyalty to him. Shredder chooses Mikey. Mikey keeps talking to Raph to try snap him out of it and Raph is having another flashback and makes him disoriantated and says this is wrong and can't kill him. Shredder gets pissed and goes to attack Raph but Mikey saves him but he gets badly hurt in the processs. Raphs memory comes back when he sees Mikey injured and he's pissed and attacks Shredder. This ends up another fight, Leo vs Shredder and Shredder is defeated possibly 'dead'.

Mikey is badly injured and they have to get him back to the lair. In the Turtle Van Mikey is in Raphs arms and he has to keep Mikey talking and not to fall asleep. Mikey is happy that Raph is back to his old self and gives him his red mask back to him. Mikey then falls unconsious and even stops breathing and it becomes a mass panic and then the episode ends.

I do have another idea that it's Raph, who injures Mikey, which makes Raph snap out of his brainwashing.

1st episode of Season 4

We see Mikey getting hurt by Shredder, Raph sees this and he can't get to Mikey and he sees him die. Raph wakes up screaming for Mikey, we hear Mikey asking Raph if he's ok, Raph says yeah and tells Mikey to go back to sleep.

They are at the farm so Mikey can heal from his injuries and help Raph from his mental trauma due to his brainwashing.

I love this! You are probably super close to the actual episode. I can't wait to find out how close you are, this should be fun. :P

[aliena]

Love the idea that one of the turtles turns out not to be a true relation - though instead of Donnie, perhaps Raph? That would give more reason for him to feel separated from the others, and make it more meaningful to accept him as one of their own towards the end of a Dark Raph arc.

I also agree Capritello needs to come to some kind of conclusion. My worry would be that after all this dragging out that the writers feel the need to suddenly rush it to a conclusion. After all this time, I'd rather it gets conclusively wrapped up in 10 episodes than suddenly sorted and near forgotten in just 1.

I also liked the idea of one of the turtles becoming human briefly - Donnie is a prime candidate for this especially. Perhaps a one/two parter where he is exposed accidentally to a retromutagen accident, becomes fully human rather than reverting to a turtle (though he could panic about it first)? It could lead to an interesting change in dynamic as to how his relationship with April might develop, but risk losing him as a member of the team as he loses his strength/agility.
In effect he has to pick between a potential future with her and staying with his brothers, and really tortures himself over what to do.
You could even further this by suggesting he becomes 'addicted' to being human, treating the retromutagen like a drug (thereby covering the 'drugs are bad m'kay' angle), further dividing him from his brothers and possibly April as well.
Have either Splinter, April or Michaelangelo (or combination) come to his aid in deciding how to proceed and in the end he uses the last batch of the retromutagen to cure Timothy and sacrifices his chance to be human.

Amazing idea! They must write this episode, I must see this happen. I would love to see Donnie as a human and how April and his family react to him. I love the idea of him becoming addicted to staying human. The best part is using it on Timothy to cure him. I can totally see this entire episode in my head. God, I wish the writers could see this and decide to use it. (Oh, I'd love to also see all four turtles become human at one point, that would be such a fantastic episode.)

[JTH]

With the Mutagen Man plot line, I think thats being set up so it doesn't end well.

1. Strongly stated that by training the Pulverizer, Donnie is responcible for whatever happens as a result.

2. The others don't seem to know Donnie had taken Timothy as a student. If they had perhaps they wouldn't have been as dismissive as they were when Donnie was telling them they needed to get him out of the Foot Clan.

3. When Donnie takes off on his own to go after the Pulverizer, Leo sighs as if saying "What is wrong with you, Donnie?"

4. There is a moment where Leo is going to slay Mutagen Man, and Donnie jumps in front of him saying "No, don't hurt him."

5. When Donnie is knocked aside, Leo falls back and tells him that Timothy isn't there anymore.

6. Leo and Raph seem suprised and confused by the fact that Donnie isn't taking the defeat of Mutagen man as a victory.


We know Mutagen Man is a reoccuring villain and he had to be left behind at the lair when the Turtles and Co evacuated the city. The upcoming moments they are at the lair, I don't think they are there to reclaim it. I think they are at their old lair to get supplies or what belongings they can salvage as the Foot and the Kraang would have likely gone there to see if there was any way of learning where the Turtles had escaped to. Or looking for Donnie's notes and things on retromutagen (Foreshadowing the Foot and or the Kraang wanting to capture Donnie or end Donnie's life because of it.) So I don't think it won't be likely that Mutagen Man would be in the lair when the Turtles return.

I think when they find Mutagen Man, he would be wanting revenge on the Turtles for what he is. And also towards Donnie for betraying him and putting him on ice. He sees April with Donnie and Casey, becoming enraged by this. The reason he liked her before was because she had devorced herself from the Turtles. Since he blamed the Turtles for his mutation he felt April is someone he could commiserate with.

He attacks them, the three of them face off against Mutagen Man. Casey presses the contact button on his phone telling Raph what they are facing off against so the other Turtles rush to aid their brother and friends. Donnie tries to reason with Mutagen Man, but he's too angry and feral minded to listen. Instead he says "Mutagen Man hate, Donnie. Donnie hurt me, take April."

The others arrive and fight him until they can retreat. Donnie gives Mutagen man one sad look before dropping his head sorrowfully and walking away. Back at the new lair Donnie informs everyone that had taken Timothy as a student when they had first met him.

The others are shocked at this and there are a few "What were you even thinking?" remarks from Raph, Casey, and Mikey. Leo and April are a bit more understanding, and both of them ask Donnie if there is anything that could be done, possibly being able to see reason. He however doesn't think it's possible to get him to see reason anymore.

As the series progresses Donnie tries get Retromutagen ready. He also is trying to devise a way to get the retromutagen in a way can be released and cure the populous of the city who have been mutated by the Kraanng.

Eventually they get to a battle where everyone fights mutagen man. It somes to a point where Leo, Raph, Mikey, April, and Casey are in danger and Donnie is forced to make a hard choice between sparing Timothy at the cost of his family or slaying Timothy to save his family.

I believe fire destroys mutagen as there have been moments we have seen that happen. But I wouldn't be surprised if the nick show introduces another way to destroy pure mutagen as well.

Donnie falls to his knees as he watches Timothy die, knowing he is now responcible for his death. Leo causiously approches his brother and kneels close to him. No words are said between them. Everyone else watches them with various degrees of sadness and concern.

Back at the lair. Splinter leaves Donatello's room and Raph asks if Donnie will be alright. Splinter sighs and says that only time will tell as this event has brought about a great change in his inteligent son's spirit and the best they can do is let him have his space and guide him back the best they can.
This is a slightly different take on what I did for my fanfiction story, "Return of The Mutagen Man".

The only difference being it took place after my first MM story and it falls in during Season 2.

[aliena]

The only personal idea I'd like to see is if one of the brothers decides he doesn't want to be a ninja anymore. I know this is a total fantasy since Raph will never stop fighting and Leo will never stop being a ninja, so it leaves Mikey and Donnie. Maybe Mikey finds another path in his life, a chef or something and says he's done fighting and training all the time.

I've always had it in the back of my mind that some of the turtles were forced into Ninja training in order to better stay alive. Maybe they have another calling that they have always wanted to try. Of course, in the end, they realize they are meant to be a Ninja alongside their bros. ;)

[Luckyday]

The only personal idea I'd like to see is if one of the brothers decides he doesn't want to be a ninja anymore. I know this is a total fantasy since Raph will never stop fighting and Leo will never stop being a ninja, so it leaves Mikey and Donnie. Maybe Mikey finds another path in his life, a chef or something and says he's done fighting and training all the time.

I've always had it in the back of my mind that some of the turtles were forced into Ninja training in order to better stay alive. Maybe they have another calling that they have always wanted to try. Of course, in the end, they realize they are meant to be a Ninja alongside their bros. ;)

^ That sounds similar to my idea except the reason why they would want to give up the lifestyle because they came upon a faraway place of an animal civilization with a organized government and everything but with a law that prohibits the possession of weapons. There is also another catch. The people have this fear and prejudice against mutants but because the turtles look similar enough to pass as chelonians, who are one of the many animal species that lives there, that they only have to worry about staying away from real chelonians who would be able to spot them out as fakes.

There is a lot of conflict between the brothers. Donatello who is at this point is in a relationship with April, is in deep consideration of living there because the society has humans living among them and that interspecies relationships are not frown upon which means they would be able to live out in the open. His technical skills might even be appreciated so he has the most to lose.

Mikey is the most vocal about it because he is deeply curious about the Chelonians despite the fact that they don't act human, which turns the others ninja turtles off.

Raph is slightly against it and Leo is not even considering it. Leo doesn't want to because he doesn't like the idea of giving up his ninjutsu and Raph doesn't like the idea of leaving his New York City.

[victory_angel]

The only personal idea I'd like to see is if one of the brothers decides he doesn't want to be a ninja anymore. I know this is a total fantasy since Raph will never stop fighting and Leo will never stop being a ninja, so it leaves Mikey and Donnie. Maybe Mikey finds another path in his life, a chef or something and says he's done fighting and training all the time.

I've always had it in the back of my mind that some of the turtles were forced into Ninja training in order to better stay alive. Maybe they have another calling that they have always wanted to try. Of course, in the end, they realize they are meant to be a Ninja alongside their bros. ;)

After the whole mutagen man thing I could see Donnie stepping away from being a ninja for a while.

He's not really a fighter...or at least not a fighter in the same sense the others are. All of them try not to get into the practice of killing unless there is no other alternative, but if Leo and Raph had to take a life they would say it was for the greater good. Mikey and Donnie are more of the gentle hearted members of the team and loath the idea of having to take a life. And will more often then not look for ways for the enemies to defeat themselves vrs. landing the killing blow. But even if taking the life of someone, Mikey would say it was one life verses numerous others. Donnie on the other hand with the exception of a few such as the Shredder... he would see the demise of an enemy at his hands as an un-needed death.

For example in Target: April O'Neil, Donnie was ready to kill Karai to protect April if it had to come to that. But he didn't do so because he didn't want to kill her if he didn't absolutely need to...particularly since Karai is Leo's love interest and killing her would only have given Karai what she wanted which is discord among the Turtles. While Leo might have understood the reason for it, he still would be upset and feel it was unfair that Donnie is able to have his love interest while he himself doesn't. And whats even worse is that Leo knows Karai is Miwa so that means Donnie would have not only robbed his brother of his love but his father of his missing daughter.

So if Donnie is forced to slay Mutagen Man, it would be the live of one vrs. the life other of many others. As Raph told him when he put the Mutagen Man on ice..."You did what you needed to do." But still that would have been a death he would be saying "if only I had done this...or said this...been faster...stronger...better...then he'd still be alive." And he may need to step away from the ninja arts for a couple episodes to sort himself out.

[JTH]

After witnessing an altercation between Raph and Donnie with Raph punking out Donnie into not doing anything to him, Donnie tells April she wouldn't understand, which leads to April wondering why Donatello refuses to ever stand up for himself to Raph.

While talking to Leo who is hesitant to talk to April about what the reasonings are, April learns that Donnie wasn't always the passive turtle she knows now.

When Leo asks April if she ever wondered why Raphael's shell was cracked and damaged and why Donnie is the way he is, April learns that the two events are actually connected to one event that occurred when they were all kids.

Leo talks about when they were kids, after years of constant teasing by Donnie's brothers and mainly by Raph about his gapped teeth, his weak wooden stick, his weak fighting skills, one day led to Donnie snapping after years of harassing and being picked on, attacking Raph to the point of breaking Raph's shell and leaving Raph hurt badly. The fight changed Donnie forever and explains why Donnie never wants to ever result to violence, and also explains why Donnie is afraid of ever standing up to Raphael, because whenever he sees Raph he is constantly reminded of what he did to him when they were kids.

[Tarris Vaal]

Thats a really interesting idea JTH :) Though Donnie does hold his own against Raph now and again (operation breakout season1 for instance). It needn't be quite such a guilt ridden thing, but it would be interesting to find out what caused the chip in Raph's shell

I notice almost all these ideas revolve around Donnie to a large degree. What do you guys think would work well with the others?

I was trying to think how Leo might act if he is forced to defend Raph or one of the others from a berserk Karai - Imagine them finding her, Raph being Raph charges in and Karai enters a berserk state and threatens to kill him. Leo steps in to stop her, but is forced to nearly cut her down (perhaps critically wound? Remove an arm maybe? - I could imagine them giving her a krang droid arm to replace it later on. Anyway..)

He'd be guilt ridden from harming her, not only because of his own feelings for her but because of who she is. At the same time Raph might want to be grateful for the help but Leo is likely to snap at him because of the guilt he's suffering. Raph is likely to take that badly and it puts another wedge between him and the others.


Raph is relatively easy to find stories for as his personality naturally puts him in a lot of conflict - though a gentler emotional connection (like finding out he actually, kind of likes Karai/April/Irma/insert name here) would be a bit different to what we've had so far.

I have to admit I really struggle to think of what I'd like to see done with Mikey. Evil Mikey (ala the Behind the Darkness fan comics) is interesting, but I wonder what else you could do with him.

[victory_angel]

April has trouble controling her psychic powers and on occasion when she's under extream duress, she not only kills the creature they are fighting, but also the nearly kills the Turtles.

She is distressed and confused as to why she can't control her powers. The Turtles try to reassure her but she is beyond consoling at that time. When she's gone, April wonders if it would be better if she just left the city on her own, that way she won't be a danger to anyone she loves ever again. She suddenly senses something and encounters a man known as Professor Honeycutt. Honeycutt leads her to a small community of people and says they are Neutrinos. They are a race of humans that had been created by the Kraang to be used as catalysts for their mutagen, and there is a government agency seeking them out to use them as living weapons. So they have created their hidden community where they have lived peacefully. April is suprised there are other people like her and makes friends with a few of them. Making friends with a group of teens named Zak, Dask, and Kala. And befriending the five year old Tribble (called a Princess Tribble because she is the youngest member and everyone in the community looks after her.). Each of them have their own gifts and ablities and with Professor Honeycutt's abilities connecting him with machines and technology. April informs Honeycutt about her abilities and he offers to help her control them.

At that moment the EPF burst in and starts taking captives, Zak, Kala, Professor Honeycutt with his robot assistant S.A.L. and Tribble manage to escape with April. Dask is arrested when he was trying to stop an EPF member from taking Tribble prisoner.

April tells them that she has some friends that could help them. But not wanting to unintentionally compromise the Turtles lair like the last time she has them wait some where away from the lair while April goes inform the Turtles of whats going on.

They concent to meet and Donnie gains an immedate liking to Professor Honeycutt (for obvious reasons) The group explains what happeneded and their plight, and the Turtles agree that the Neutrino's should be rescued. Durring the battle, Professor Honeycutt is seriously wounded...so much so that nothing can be done to save his life. Honeycutt however says his life can be spared if his conciousness is downloaded into SAL. Donnie is unsure but he is instructed in what to do. Professor Honeycutt awakens in SAL and Mikey gives him the name of the Fugatoid because he's a fugative and an android.

[victory_angel]

I've been reading your April O'Neil: Journal of our Journey fic JTH.

In your most recent chapter you were saying in Donnie's section of the journal that Donnie refused to speak of what he experienced in his dream. And that Donnie appeared to be having trouble recovering from the events of the invasion in New York, and in some ways may never recover.

Perhaps that is something that is brought up later in the season. It would be so like Donnie maybe to have at least a few days where the others feel concerned about how he's taking things. And then have him act like he's alright while in reality he is bottling up his pain and grief and pretending it doesn't exist.

It is possible the Spirit Quest episode could address that somewhat as they would be facing their fears. And in the animatic Donnie is pitted against Tiger Claw, we all know Tiger Claw is an enemy that he would be extreamly hard pressed to physically defeat... Particularly since the first time they have ever really encountered each other Tiger Claw pinned him down and nearly stabbed him with Raph's sai. However since the Spirit Quest is going to be one episode rather then focusing on each of the turtles individually. There wouldn't be as much focus as their probably could have been.

Perhaps there is a later event that triggers something that causes Donnie to have a break down, because we all know what happens when you bottle things up...eventually it will explode.

[Tarris Vaal]

However since the Spirit Quest is going to be one episode rather then focusing on each of the turtles individually. There wouldn't be as much focus as their probably could have been.

I'm really torn over whether that is a bad thing or not. Normally I would have loved to have had a focused set of episodes (1 per turtle) for the vision quest, or even 2 per episode for a two parter, but it just seems that Northampton has outstayed its welcome by this point.

Perhaps there is a later event that triggers something that causes Donnie to have a break down, because we all know what happens when you bottle things up...eventually it will explode.

That could be fun :) Would it work well with the other turtles as well? Even Mikey possibly?



On the subject of Mikey, I recall reading somewhere on the forum that Renet was more or less confirmed to be making an appearance at some point and slated as a 'love interest' for Mikey (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Either way, it occured to me that it would be a good opportunity for a major foreshadowing episode in a similar vein to 'Same as it never was';
Lets say that Renet's appearance is due to her coming back to warn Mikey of what is coming - she uses her powers to grant him a vision of the future. He wakes up to find himself in what he presumes is a few years ahead. He finds the lair with Leo blinded, Raph missing, Casey much grimmer, Donatello an emotionally broken shadow, and himself and April presumed dead.
He finds out that something happened to cause Raph to turn dark and join with the Foot. When that happened, Mikey was mortally wounded trying to save him, April died defending Donatello (something he has never forgiven himself for and for which Casey has never forgiven him over). They managed to escape but Leo was blinded in the process.
As Mikey discovers this, he gets some impression of what caused Raph to turn (maybe with Donatello's help). There should also be a visual cue, like Mikey noticing that the photo frame of Donnie and April on the swing is cracked and broken. But before he can confirm what happened Raph attacks the new lair. Mikey tries to stop him, and rather than Raph being happy to see him we get something like;
'Didn't I kill you once already?'
Mikey is understandably shocked and shaken as the lair is overwhelmed. Donatello forces Mikey back into the past, shouting what Mikey has to do (though barely audible over the noise of battle).
Mikey wakes up in the present, shocked by all he has seen and desperately trying to remember what he had to do to stop it. As he panics, he knocks over the photoframe and cracks it.

I dunno, it may be that this runs cooler in my head than it would on the show :)

[Luckyday]

I'm really torn over whether that is a bad thing or not. Normally I would have loved to have had a focused set of episodes (1 per turtle) for the vision quest, or even 2 per episode for a two parter, but it just seems that Northampton has outstayed its welcome by this point.



That could be fun :) Would it work well with the other turtles as well? Even Mikey possibly?



On the subject of Mikey, I recall reading somewhere on the forum that Renet was more or less confirmed to be making an appearance at some point and slated as a 'love interest' for Mikey (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Either way, it occured to me that it would be a good opportunity for a major foreshadowing episode in a similar vein to 'Same as it never was';
Lets say that Renet's appearance is due to her coming back to warn Mikey of what is coming - she uses her powers to grant him a vision of the future. He wakes up to find himself in what he presumes is a few years ahead. He finds the lair with Leo blinded, Raph missing, Casey much grimmer, Donatello an emotionally broken shadow, and himself and April presumed dead.
He finds out that something happened to cause Raph to turn dark and join with the Foot. When that happened, Mikey was mortally wounded trying to save him, April died defending Donatello (something he has never forgiven himself for and for which Casey has never forgiven him over). They managed to escape but Leo was blinded in the process.
As Mikey discovers this, he gets some impression of what caused Raph to turn (maybe with Donatello's help). There should also be a visual cue, like Mikey noticing that the photo frame of Donnie and April on the swing is cracked and broken. But before he can confirm what happened Raph attacks the new lair. Mikey tries to stop him, and rather than Raph being happy to see him we get something like;
'Didn't I kill you once already?'
Mikey is understandably shocked and shaken as the lair is overwhelmed. Donatello forces Mikey back into the past, shouting what Mikey has to do (though barely audible over the noise of battle).
Mikey wakes up in the present, shocked by all he has seen and desperately trying to remember what he had to do to stop it. As he panics, he knocks over the photoframe and cracks it.

I dunno, it may be that this runs cooler in my head than it would on the show :)

Sounds like a good setup. I always prefer Mikey to be the one that travels into the future since it parallels how the future of mirage tmnt progress.



******

People theorize that April might have a dark phoenix arc but what if instead the group managed to destroy Kraang Prime but some how it made April psychic powers go away because the kraang are a hive mind race and all of their mental enegry is derived from Kraang Prime?

[JTH]

People theorize that April might have a dark phoenix arc but what if instead the group managed to destroy Kraang Prime but some how it made April psychic powers go away because the kraang are a hive mind race and all of their mental energy is derived from Kraang Prime?
I've been of the opinion that if she turns out to be a Neutrino, they can have a cop out to her DNA simply because Neutrinos are just a different known species of Kraang. Because based on what other things in Dimension X are named, they all seem to be named after The Kraang or Kraang predominant.

Just like we all look different but we're all still human on Earth, Dimension X species all look different but are all still Kraang.

[victory_angel]

That could be fun :) Would it work well with the other turtles as well? Even Mikey possibly?


Or Leo, they have a nod to something like that episode of teen titans where Star Fire went into the future. And since Ciro was involved with Teen Titans, that isn't to far-fetched in happening.

Renet accidentally sends Leo 10 years into the future. He seeks out his family and finds an older version of Splinter with Mikey and April. They inform him that Casey is dead, while Donnie disappeared during a mission over a year ago...they fear the worst.

When Leo asks about Mikey, April, and Splinter about Raph. Both Mikey and April look angry and tells Leo that they lost him along time ago. Splinter looks saddened at this.

Leo, Mikey, and April scope out the Shredders lair and see what appears to be a mutant dressed in foot soldier garb. Leo asks who he is, but Mikey ignores the question. He just says that mutant is bad news. Just then two other mutants (older Bebop and Rocksteady) bring in heavily wounded, severely emaciated, and blind Donatello. Both April and Mikey are surprised to see Donnie still alive, and Leo is horrified by what condition his brother is in.

Shredder demands to know if he is going to make Retromutagen or if he is going to continue to make things difficult. Donnie glares at the mutant in black angrily and says he has no intention of helping fiends and traitors.

The mutant in black scoffs and says that he can quit resisting because he doesn't have anything to gain by it. Donnie then angrily says "At least I didn't sell my soul like you did, Raph."

Leo is shocked by this, April says that Raph took Leo's disappearance rather hard and one day he blew up at everyone and stormed out and teamed up with the Foot Clan.

[aliena]

Thats a really interesting idea JTH :) Though Donnie does hold his own against Raph now and again (operation breakout season1 for instance). It needn't be quite such a guilt ridden thing, but it would be interesting to find out what caused the chip in Raph's shell

I notice almost all these ideas revolve around Donnie to a large degree. What do you guys think would work well with the others?

I was trying to think how Leo might act if he is forced to defend Raph or one of the others from a berserk Karai - Imagine them finding her, Raph being Raph charges in and Karai enters a berserk state and threatens to kill him. Leo steps in to stop her, but is forced to nearly cut her down (perhaps critically wound? Remove an arm maybe? - I could imagine them giving her a krang droid arm to replace it later on. Anyway..)

He'd be guilt ridden from harming her, not only because of his own feelings for her but because of who she is. At the same time Raph might want to be grateful for the help but Leo is likely to snap at him because of the guilt he's suffering. Raph is likely to take that badly and it puts another wedge between him and the others.


Raph is relatively easy to find stories for as his personality naturally puts him in a lot of conflict - though a gentler emotional connection (like finding out he actually, kind of likes Karai/April/Irma/insert name here) would be a bit different to what we've had so far.

I have to admit I really struggle to think of what I'd like to see done with Mikey. Evil Mikey (ala the Behind the Darkness fan comics) is interesting, but I wonder what else you could do with him.

Boy, this is tough. I had this vague idea of Raph becoming an artist or a sculptor and April shows his work and he becomes famous over it, possibly a comic book that gains a fanbase. For some reason, they seem to always show Raph doing some kind of Art form in each incarnation. Maybe he's got an untapped potential there.

I can't really think of anything else to do with Raph, except give him a love interest or have him move out.

I read a fantastic fanfic where Raph moves out after some people he tried to protect were killed. He gets completely unhinged and goes after his brothers wanting to fight with Leo the most so he can accomplish something fairly shocking.

As for Mikey, I got nothing other than the going evil idea. Maybe he finds an abandoned toddler and brings it home? Or he makes a secret friend that he sneaks out to hang out with? Those are horrible ideas. I'm glad I don't have to write the episodes. :P

[Luckyday]

I've been of the opinion that if she turns out to be a Neutrino, they can have a cop out to her DNA simply because Neutrinos are just a different known species of Kraang. Because based on what other things in Dimension X are named, they all seem to be named after The Kraang or Kraang predominant.

Just like we all look different but we're all still human on Earth, Dimension X species all look different but are all still Kraang.

That might be the reason why kraang can completely mutate 100% of the creatures in their dimension into a extant duplicate of whatever thing that originate from dimension X.

I use to think that the way that mutation works is that the mutagen pulls out share dna but then Ice cream kitty would have mutated into a cow cat with strawberries growing out of it's back so maybe it's changing creatures at a molecular level.

I also notice mutant always become bigger, never smaller. Even turtles themselves had mutated into a slightly bigger size and proportionally too since Splinter got only slightly bigger as well.

This means that like a loaf of bread baking in the oven, energy increase mass of the creature. Mutations are exothermic reactions.

The creature that doesn't follow this rule is Ice cream kitty and possible Karai but their mutations were not typically like the rest. Before Ice Cream Kitty got mutated, ice cream got drip into the mutagen and had exothermic reaction, releasing energy . Situation was similar for Karai.
It also possible that energy builds over time inside contain mutagen since the mutagen that was inside the kraang ship for 15 odd years had turn frogs into people sized mutants while the mutagen had mutated the turtles had only made them just a little bit bigger.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/4bee2bf0e28ade3cd85a78a12d56e69a/tumblr_ndcf20xVy91tbvj91o1_500.gif

Another way that the two are connected is that both substances were already in the mutagen which shows anything that goes in the mutagen, doesn't matter on what last thing they had touch, they will turn into that likeness of the substance. No matter what.

This might explain Timothy's mutation. Shredder doesn't strike me as someone who is careful with mutagen, in fact, no one on this show is. It would not surprise me that open mutagen was kept in poor un sanitized conditions and the smallest one celled organism got in the mutagen.

So there two or at least one establish rules for mutagen.

[Tarris Vaal]

That is almost a thread in itself! - forcing science into Mutagen! :)

It would be nice to get some better ideas of how it is supposed to work, particularly if Retromutagen becomes a major plot device in the future.


Its an interesting point that we see very little of other hobbies among some of the Turtles - particularly Raph. Since he lost Spike as a pet it might be nice for him to have something else he relax with beyond training. It would make for a nice filler ep if Mikey or Donnie were to discover he has a really gentle hobby (knitting?) that he is ashamed of and tries to keep quiet from the others.

[Luckyday]

That is almost a thread in itself! - forcing science into Mutagen! :)

It would be nice to get some better ideas of how it is supposed to work, particularly if Retromutagen becomes a major plot device in the future.


Its an interesting point that we see very little of other hobbies among some of the Turtles - particularly Raph. Since he lost Spike as a pet it might be nice for him to have something else he relax with beyond training. It would make for a nice filler ep if Mikey or Donnie were to discover he has a really gentle hobby (knitting?) that he is ashamed of and tries to keep quiet from the others.

If mutagen was made of pixie dust then I wouldn't even bother speculating but once you put science on the table, it's open season for us theorist nuts. http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/hm.png


http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mechnfeHnu1rec9ako1_400.gif

Anyway:trolleye:

I always figure that Raph would be the type of guy that loves sports since he likes competing.

[CaliperCat]

I doubt this qualifies as a traumatic idea (unless you count switching minds with a genius chicken as a torturous experience), but it popped into my head at work today. so I may as well share it.

Donnie is in the midst of re-configuring his mind-reading device, and leaves it alone for a time, perhaps to train. Since Mikey's always hanging around, I can see him popping into the barn (or perhaps he was hiding in there all along), and, deciding that Donnie's new device looks cool, puts it on and starts to mess with it, thinking it's not functional. Dr. Cluckingsworth, who had been hanging out in the barn the entire time, is standing on the device, or on some uncompleted part of it. While playing with the switches, and in general being a lovable bit of a goof ("This tiara is stylish, huh Dr. Cluckingsworth?") accidentally triggers the device, which effects both him and the genius chicken. This causes them to switch minds. In shock from the switch, "Mikey" simply plops down on the barn floor, while "Dr. Cluckingsworth" staggers into the house.

Donnie returns to the barn, and sees "Mikey" sitting there, looking sort of dazed. He asks if he's been messing with his stuff, then tells him that he really shouldn't, because it's dangerous. "Mikey" just looks at him and makes a clucking sound, causing Donnie to stare, then shake his head.

Over time, the other turtles notice some changes. "Dr. Cluckingsworth" spends all her time in the house, watching Mikey's barbarian show (and pecking anyone who tries to touch the remote), eating massive amounts of pizza, clucking non-stop, and performing backflips. I think it'd be funny if someone (maybe Raph) said something about Mikey that could be construed as insulting- maybe that Mikey wasn't really a ninja anymore, since he spent all his time in the barn tinkering with Donnie's things, and can't even hold his 'chucks correctly. This causes "Dr. Cluckingsworth" to fly into a rage, and Raph finds himself with a face full of chicken who, somehow, can perform ninja moves. :lol:

Meanwhile, "Mikey" spends all his time in the barn working on science projects. He's finally learned how to control his body's voice, but when he talks, it's a bunch of science babble. This causes Donnie to say something along the lines of, "Wait... Is Mikey actually SMART? Like, smart smart?! He also notices that Dr. Cluckingsworth must have, "Spent too much time around Mikey." Needless to say, everyone is really weirded out, especially when ICK sees "Mikey" and starts attacking and biting him.

I didn't get as far as the rest of the gang figuring out what happened and switching them back, but I assume it would happen at some point. It's possible that finding themselves in bodies that are unfamiliar, and being expected to fill roles that aren't truly "them," causes the two a lot of building stress, and they end up becoming really moody and unhappy for a while. There could also be some resentment on Mikey's end after they're switched back, because he's heard what everyone else says when he's not around, and it actually kind of gets under his skin.

[victory_angel]

Since Donnie had successfully created Retromutagen, it is a safe bet that it in essence does paint a big red target on his shell and a there is a handful of groups who will find that of interest.

Shredder is an obvious one because he wants to cure Karai. At this time Stockmen is the only member of the Foot who actually knows Donnie is able to create Retromutagen. Rahzar only knows one of the Turtles can create Retromutagen, and he knows them well enough to make a few guesses as to who it is.

This knowledge will in time become known to the rest of the Foot Clan particularly Shredder. However this version of the Shredder isn't really a sadistic capture and torture type. He's sadistic and likes to torment his enemies but he also deals death quickly and painfully. But he had also felt that Leonardo was beneath him in terms of a worthy kill. So odds are he is just going to bide his time until Donnie has retromutagen handy and then send his grunts out to retrieve it.

What I see happening is that Donnie has created another batch of retromutagen with the intention of finding and curing Karai. However the Foot were waiting for this moment, there is a battle over the retromutagen until Donnie is caught and Tiger Claw or even the Shredder himself tells the other Turtles to stand down and hand over the Retromutagen or else Donnie would be thrown from the top of the building (or bridge into the bay).

Leo knows there isn't a real choice so he tosses over the Retromutagen. Shredder looks at the vile before looking at his goons. The mutants holding Donnie set him down like they are going to let him go as promised, before Tiger Claw pushes Donnie of the edge sending him plummeting.

[Tarris Vaal]

Thus proving Tigerclaw and Tk12 Shredder are among the most impressive villains in TV history :tcool:

Is Shredder or any of his minions aware of Donnie's feelings for April? I know Rat king is but I wasn't sure of the others. Reason being, I can imagine them using April to lure Donnie in - capturing her and contacting Donnie secretly to force him to create a batch and deliver it without telling the others on pain of killing her - he is then captured when he agrees to this and they inevitably betray him. Being the good guys I'd expect the others to find out anyway and follow (something Tigerclaw/Shredder would anticipate).
They then present a Spiderman esque choice for the others to save Donatello or April (as both are simultaneously thrown), and buying time for Shredder to get away with the retromutagen.
Donatello could then have the reason to force the others to save April over himself - perhaps forcing April to use her own powers (and making Shredder aware of them) or suffering serious lasting injury for Donnie.

On that note, this could also be tied into a plot involving Neutrinos and Bishop, with Bishop engineering this whole thing quietly behind the scenes (even manipulating Shredder, knowing he would act this way), just to get April to utilise her powers to such an extent and prove she is worth adding to 'the program'.

Now I really am overthinking this....:tsad:


In regards the mind swap, we did have the episode before with Raph swapping minds with a Kraang, as well as Casey/April briefly. Maybe something where Dr Cluckingsworth MD finds a way to use Mikey to communicate through rather than an outright body swap? Could be played for laughs well, and would give Dr C an actual voice - depending on whether he is needed later (perhaps in the event of maintaining an 'expert' in the team if Donnie is taken out of action).

[CaliperCat]

In regards the mind swap, we did have the episode before with Raph swapping minds with a Kraang, as well as Casey/April briefly. Maybe something where Dr Cluckingsworth MD finds a way to use Mikey to communicate through rather than an outright body swap? Could be played for laughs well, and would give Dr C an actual voice - depending on whether he is needed later (perhaps in the event of maintaining an 'expert' in the team if Donnie is taken out of action).

Argh, how could I forget about the Kraang episode? It's one of my favorites. But I like the idea of Dr. Cluckingsworth using Mikey as a microphone! It'd be pretty hilarious to see Mikey spewing a river of science babble while everyone else gaped like fish. :lol: Mikey's always had a way with animals, so this actually seems pretty plausible to me.

[victory_angel]

Thus proving Tigerclaw and Tk12 Shredder are among the most impressive villains in TV history :tcool:

They then present a Spiderman esque choice for the others to save Donatello or April (as both are simultaneously thrown), and buying time for Shredder to get away with the retromutagen.
Donatello could then have the reason to force the others to save April over himself - perhaps forcing April to use her own powers (and making Shredder aware of them) or suffering serious lasting injury for Donnie.

On that note, this could also be tied into a plot involving Neutrinos and Bishop, with Bishop engineering this whole thing quietly behind the scenes (even manipulating Shredder, knowing he would act this way), just to get April to utilise her powers to such an extent and prove she is worth adding to 'the program'.

Now I really am overthinking this....:tsad:

That is actually very creative. Perhaps if Donnie is dropped of the side of a building....actually being tossed off a building is to cliche make it the Manhattan Bridge...yes that would use a new background set but oh well.

Perhaps if Donnie is pushed off one of the towers into the bay below April would suddenly use her powers so that Donatello isn't so much a plunge as much as it is gently drifting downward. Tiger Claw and Shredder, take note of this and the whole thing also catches Bishops attention.

Another option is that April is captured by Tiger Claw as he is interested in killing them as well as the Turtles. He threatens to toss her if he doesn't get the Retromutagen.

Donnie is torn between restoring Karai and saving April. Casey then gets frustrated he grabs the Retromutagen from Donnie and tosses it to Tiger Claw before demanding he let April go. Tiger claw smirks the the Foot Bots on Tiger Claws command sends April falling to the bay below.

Donnie jumps after her catches her and uses his grappling hook gun to stop their decent. So when they are about half way down and about to get back up to the bridge landing they see Shredder standing near their grappling hook cable before he slices it. Sending the two of them falling into the water below.

He's about to turn and walk away when he notices a glow in the water he pauses and sees April has uses her powers to created a protective bubble around Donatello and herself. The two of them rise to the nearest landing and then when they land they immediately collapse into a soaked freezing cold heap.

When April wakes up she is in the lair with Splinter watching over her. Her first concern is about Donatello. Raphael appears in the room and says Donnie hasn't regained consciousness as of yet, but they are keeping him warm and hopes he recovers soon.

April insists on seeing him goes over to where Leo and Mikey are gathered. Casey in the mean time comes up and says he really screwed up this time. And elsewhere an EPF Soldier says "We need to report this to Bishop."



Another situation is that Donnie is some how separated from his brothers and companions while he they are are in battle. The others don't realizes because they are too busy dealing with Shredder's mutants to realize that what is actually going on. Shredder or Tiger Claw then grabs the retromutagen from Donnie before seriously wounding him and walking off. The others regroup when the Foot bots retreat April then notices Donnie isn't with them. They all realize shes right, Mikey and Casey call for Donnie and receive no answer. Leo tells everyone to split up an look. Raph comes across the spot where Donatello has been left for dead.

[victory_angel]

There are some substances that have violent reactions when in contact with their opposite. Such as Antimatter coming in contact with matter.

So maybe in a bit of cruel irony, retromutagen reacts violently to mutagen. And since the Mutagen Man is purely mutagen, Donnie realizes he can't use it on Timothy.

Unfortunately during a fight to try and restore April's father they get attacked by Mutagen Man who wants to destroy Donnie for betraying him. He notices the Retromutagen vile and thinking it to be a new form of mutagen picks it up to eat it.

Donnie tries to warn him that isn't what he thinks it is, but MM doesn't listen. And when the two substances combine they react and Donnie can only watch helplessly as Mutagen man is destroyed.

Everyone is worried about how Donnie is taking all this and Leo comments that he hasn't seen Donnie this distressed before and he doesn't know what should be done to help him.

[Tarris Vaal]

I do like the irony :)

That does sound something more like what may occur - that ultimately Timothy's destruction is his own fault than Donnie's failure to save him. I liked Pulverizer personally, so I'd be sad to see him go rather than be potentially healed, but scenarios like this definitely work.

That said, would Donnie take it that hard? If it was ultimately Timothy's fault he ate the vial, rather than Donnie being forced to use it on him as a weapon then it gives Donnie a way to justify what happened. He may feel depressed, but I dont know if it would break him so long as the others were able to offer some support - imagine Mikey saying 'it wasn't your fault bro.' I bet the first words out of Donnie's mouth would be a resigned sigh followed by 'yeah, you're probably right.' ;)

[JTH]

There are some substances that have violent reactions when in contact with their opposite. Such as Antimatter coming in contact with matter.

So maybe in a bit of cruel irony, retromutagen reacts violently to mutagen. And since the Mutagen Man is purely mutagen, Donnie realizes he can't use it on Timothy.

Unfortunately during a fight to try and restore April's father they get attacked by Mutagen Man who wants to destroy Donnie for betraying him. He notices the Retromutagen vile and thinking it to be a new form of mutagen picks it up to eat it.

Donnie tries to warn him that isn't what he thinks it is, but MM doesn't listen. And when the two substances combine they react and Donnie can only watch helplessly as Mutagen man is destroyed.

Everyone is worried about how Donnie is taking all this and Leo comments that he hasn't seen Donnie this distressed before and he doesn't know what should be done to help him.
You've been reading my Mutagen Man story haven't ya. :twink:

[Bitsy83]

Another situation is that Donnie is some how separated from his brothers and companions while he they are are in battle. The others don't realizes because they are too busy dealing with Shredder's mutants to realize that what is actually going on. Shredder or Tiger Claw then grabs the retromutagen from Donnie before seriously wounding him and walking off. The others regroup when the Foot bots retreat April then notices Donnie isn't with them. They all realize shes right, Mikey and Casey call for Donnie and receive no answer. Leo tells everyone to split up an look. Raph comes across the spot where Donatello has been left for dead.

I watched the "Return to New York" promo again and there were some moments were it looked like Donnie was by himself. I think at one point facing the Kraang and one where he was hiding while being shot at. What if the Kraang/Foot lure Donnie into a trap and capture him, then when the Turtles, Casey, and April come to save him, Tiger Claw opens a portal and sends them into it (Possible to Dimension X) while Donnie watches on helpless?

I don't have any screenshots of what I'm talking about, but if someone could make them if you know what I'm talking about.

[victory_angel]

I do like the irony :)

That does sound something more like what may occur - that ultimately Timothy's destruction is his own fault than Donnie's failure to save him. I liked Pulverizer personally, so I'd be sad to see him go rather than be potentially healed, but scenarios like this definitely work.

That said, would Donnie take it that hard? If it was ultimately Timothy's fault he ate the vial, rather than Donnie being forced to use it on him as a weapon then it gives Donnie a way to justify what happened. He may feel depressed, but I dont know if it would break him so long as the others were able to offer some support - imagine Mikey saying 'it wasn't your fault bro.' I bet the first words out of Donnie's mouth would be a resigned sigh followed by 'yeah, you're probably right.' ;)


Well Donnie isn't really at fault for what happened to Leo and the lair and all that, but he still blames himself anyway.

In the Pulverizer Donnie is warned by Splinter that by training him at all he is responsible for him. And that included anything the Pulverizer does with his training and anything that happens too him as a result.

So yes even though his mutation is the Pulverizer's doing, Donnie is still responsible. And in Mutagen Man Unleashed, Donnie didn't want to have to do what he did to defeat Timothy, and he even tries to warn Timothy not to drink the mutagen he had tampered with.

So even if Timothy did eat the retromutagen on his own, Donnie would be upset because he seems to have a "No good deed goes unpunished" cycle. Because a number of the things he does even the things done with the best of intentions have a way of coming back and slapping him in the face.

and being responsible for a death of someone he had only trying to help would be a heavy blow for him.

You've been reading my Mutagen Man story haven't ya. :twink:

Ironically no....but we do appear to be having similar ideas.


Interestingly enough it Leo seems to have a biggish role in the pulverizer/mutagen man episodes as well. So if Mikey has a part in guiding Raph back from his dark state...maybe Leo has some role in what happens in the aftermath of the Mutagen Man situations.

[victory_angel]

The Turtles encounter older version of Leo, Raph, and Mikey who tell them they need the help of their younger selves to defeat the and old evil. It doesn't escape the Mikey's notice that they all look sad when they are talking to Donnie.

Casey questions them about where the older version of Donatello is, but the older turtles are tight lipped about it. Older Leo just says he was lost during an event that was too horrible to mention. Donnie isn't really paying attention to the conversation because he is too busy looking at future technology. But younger Leo is concerned about what happened and asks his older self what happened and insists that he wants to know because he wants to prevent it from happening.

Leo's older self tells him it's useless and reminds him of who he is talking to. He had heard the story and he had tried to prevent it...and it still happened.

Leo still says he wants to know because anything that threatens then lives of any of this brother is of concern to him. Leo sighs and says he doesn't see what good it would do, but tells him (we don't hear it )

[Tarris Vaal]

Poor Donnie does get the worst of it in these doesn't he? :)

Would this scenario work with Mikey as the 'missing' turtle? I can imagine his reactions better as he slowly notices, and the reactions of the others being determined to save him.

[victory_angel]

Poor Donnie does get the worst of it in these doesn't he? :)

Would this scenario work with Mikey as the 'missing' turtle? I can imagine his reactions better as he slowly notices, and the reactions of the others being determined to save him.

Yes that would work with Mikey. But since Donnie is the smart one, he is the one they can't function without.

As we have seen in these past episodes you can remove, Leo, Raph, or Mikey from the group...and the group would still function. They don't function quite as well but they still function.

However if Donnie is not with the group everything begins to fall apart and there are situations they wouldn't have gotten out if Donnie hadn't been there.

Such as Mousers Attack when Donnie tells Leo and Raph that the stuff that Stockman sprayed them would come off gradually. But if someone else was hit with it, it would give off a bigger signal.

Or the Wormquake Episode where Donnie is seperated from his brothers, but he also helps them by getting rid of the Kraang Worms.

In so far the group has had small moments without Donnie present, but Donnie is summoned back to the group, or rejoined the group at the climax of the episode.

The only episode the three of them as a whole really had trouble without him was in Operation Breakout when they were flopping about and trying to figure out what Donnie would have done if he was there.

But they have yet to be in a situation where they *need* Donnie and he can't come help them because of XYZ.

That's why episodes such as Same as it Never Was were so impactful. Because Mikey essentially tells Donnie that when he disappeared, they tried to work together without him there to balance out the team they eventually went their separate ways.

And in Good Genes, Leonardo states to Master Splinter that he feels lost without Donnie there. And in a cold opening during the final episode of the arc. Leo says if the situation had happened to anyone else they would have turned to Donnie for a cure.

[Tarris Vaal]

That's very true - and I cant really complain as Donnie is my favourite anyway :)

That said, I always worry he does get a lot of focus (and especially in 2k12) so I find I try deliberately to steer away from coming up with speculation around him! Daft really, but there we are.

It'd be interesting to see Donnie's mindset of how he feels when his brothers are not part of the team. The examples you give are great examples of how the rest of the team feel when he isn't there, whereas we rarely get a glimpse into how Donnie's mind works when he's forced to act without one of the others.

Invasion is the closest we've had so far, but we didnt have much time in the episode to explore his thoughts on the matter - he just went with the flow. We did have operation breakout, but I'm not sure that should count as he was operating independently and not as part of the team with 2 of the others.

Like you suggested earlier, with the pent up guilt for what happened from the end of Invasion, that could be an interesting avenue to explore. If and when Raph turns to the dark side, it could also open up that area again if Donnie blames himself for what happens. I'm trying to imagine scenarios where that may occur and all I can come up with off the top of my head is;

A major threat causes Slash to join with the Turtles briefly, but aside from Raph, the rest of the team struggle to trust him. At the climax of the battle, Slash is seemingly lost/destroyed alongside the threat (in a similar way to Leatherhead). Donnie had the opportunity to save him, and didn't take it because of his distrust.
Raph immediately blames Donnie and storms off, leaving a major rift between them (possibly with Mikey giving chase to calm him down). Donnie is then left blaming himself for this later when Raph joins Shredder.
Even have Raph then remind him of this moment when they are fighting (as there is speculation they have foreshadowed a potential attack on Donnie by Dark Raph) - 'You think the others think you worth saving? Like you did Slash?'


Something like that anyway :)

[victory_angel]

How about there is a moment where the Turtles are in a situation and they are all scattered through out New York. While they are trying to reunite with one another they have to contend with the forces of the Foot and the Kraang.

[Luckyday]

I once read somewhere on how a cobra will guard her eggs with total dedication, even to a point of starvation, but once eggs hatch she will get as far away from them as she can or else she will end eating her young.

Now this situation might be similar to Karai. Granted that the turtles are not her sons but they are family. Snakes don't have a sense of self control when they get hunger and they will attack anything that moves, and I mean anything including the same species of snake, but fortunately snakes have slow metabolisms so Karai would only need to go to the woods every other weekend and prey on some local wild life.

"Ok so where's the conflict?"

The conflict is set around the fact that she doesn't explain why she has go out into the woods. Since she just recently switch sides and also had spit venom in Raph eyes, the group is understandable suspicious. Master Splinter is fully aware of Karai's needs since he probably had some first hand experiences but he is not explaining the situation either because there no real immediate danger since they have set a system. It also a matter of believing that Karai should be the one that explains the situation or else they would have more reason to distrust her but how do you explain in nonchalant manner to your friends and family that you have go away or else you will go into a murderous feeding frenzy without them developing a healthy fear of you?

[Tarris Vaal]

I think the idea of her being prone to frenzies is really interesting and opens a lot of avenues to develop her character without having her as a 'bad guy' per se, but more of a good guy with issues.

I can also see Raph taking it more personally than most, whilst also having the most in common with her.


How about there is a moment where the Turtles are in a situation and they are all scattered through out New York. While they are trying to reunite with one another they have to contend with the forces of the Foot and the Kraang.

I'm actually kinda surprised that this hasnt already happened. It seems a good way to emphasise each turtles strengths and weaknesses. But then I guess we sort of had this with vision quest recently.

[JTH]

Yes that would work with Mikey. But since Donnie is the smart one, he is the one they can't function without.

As we have seen in these past episodes you can remove, Leo, Raph, or Mikey from the group...and the group would still function. They don't function quite as well but they still function.

However if Donnie is not with the group everything begins to fall apart and there are situations they wouldn't have gotten out if Donnie hadn't been there.

Such as Mousers Attack when Donnie tells Leo and Raph that the stuff that Stockman sprayed them would come off gradually. But if someone else was hit with it, it would give off a bigger signal.

Or the Wormquake Episode where Donnie is seperated from his brothers, but he also helps them by getting rid of the Kraang Worms.

In so far the group has had small moments without Donnie present, but Donnie is summoned back to the group, or rejoined the group at the climax of the episode.

The only episode the three of them as a whole really had trouble without him was in Operation Breakout when they were flopping about and trying to figure out what Donnie would have done if he was there.

But they have yet to be in a situation where they *need* Donnie and he can't come help them because of XYZ.

That's why episodes such as Same as it Never Was were so impactful. Because Mikey essentially tells Donnie that when he disappeared, they tried to work together without him there to balance out the team they eventually went their separate ways.

And in Good Genes, Leonardo states to Master Splinter that he feels lost without Donnie there. And in a cold opening during the final episode of the arc. Leo says if the situation had happened to anyone else they would have turned to Donnie for a cure.
True, this is also what makes his affection with April an interesting element to the show, because this show has really made Donnie more valuable to the team, but him becoming too worried about April and not about everyone as a whole could hurt them in the long haul.

Which is another reason the turtles try to tell Donnie to move on because to them and even to Splinter in a sense, it will hurt them as a team, but the irony is the others don't want him to be too concerned for April, because therefore they believe he does not see the bigger picture; where as Donnie knows April effects the bigger picture, so therefore he has to be overly focused on her safety, but the others just think Donnie's that way just because he likes her.

[Luckyday]

I think the idea of her being prone to frenzies is really interesting and opens a lot of avenues to develop her character without having her as a 'bad guy' per se, but more of a good guy with issues.

I can also see Raph taking it more personally than most, whilst also having the most in common with her.


Honestly, I just want them to do something with the mutation that will actually lead into something interesting. There has been too many times when amutation of establish character hardly went any where even though the potential was there.

*Slash mutation could been a Raph arc with Slash being mirror of Raph inner demons.
*Rahzar could been a character arc of Bradford bitting the hand that feeds since he was transform from a loyal dog to a unyielding wolf.
*With Baxter Stockman (well maybe this would too dark) since his mutation was base on the movie "The fly". His arc would been a tragedy with his brilliant mind slowly degrading but then again it would been more sense to write him as an anti hero like Walter White from Breaking Bad.

Sure new mutations are cool but once the coolness factor wears off, they are just another monster that roars in your face.:(

It's like mutations demotes you to background status.

[victory_angel]

Which is another reason the turtles try to tell Donnie to move on because to them and even to Splinter in a sense, it will hurt them as a team, but the irony is the others don't want him to be too concerned for April, because therefore they believe he does not see the bigger picture; where as Donnie knows April effects the bigger picture, so therefore he has to be overly focused on her safety, but the others just think Donnie's that way just because he likes her.

Splinter appears to have grasped that Donnie's feelings for April were not a crush but actual true love way back in season 1. Because initially when Donnie protests about being kept in the lair for year so they can learn to fight as a team, Splinter isn't happy about him speaking out of turn. But when Donnie continues to plead his case, Splinter senses something and that enabled him to change his mind. If it had just been a crush, Splinter would have just said this is a girl he barely knows and the authorities in the city will deal with the abduction.

Mikey at some point in season one seemed to be grasp that Donnie's feelings for April are deeper then an actual crush. I don't think he is aware how deep it is, but he is the one who points out to Raph that the heart is fragile. And he also feels bad for Donnie after April rejects the music box he made for her. But that doesn't mean he won't tease his brother for it.

Leo only recently seems to be grasping that Donnie's infatuation with April isn't just a crush. I guess he was hoping that perhaps since Casey and Donnie have been getting along better he was hoping the whole crush thing would be resolved. The way he looks up while he's packing his gear...the moment Donnie comments about how he is worried about what April and Casey would be doing while they are gone. It's like he had been hoping that he didn't have to say what his brother needed to hear which is they needed to leave their worry's and fears or rather their earthly attachments behind. That is also probably why Leo didn't allow April to join them on the camping trip. It wasn't because she couldn't benefit from it. However in order for Donnie to do the changing he needed to do he can't be distracted from the lessons he needed to learn.

It kinda reminded me of that one episode of Avatar the Last Airbender where Aang must meet a man named Guru Pathik so he can be instructed in how to obtain and control his avatar state by opening his seven chakras. Aang is able to open six of them, but when he gets to the seventh one he refuses to open it because doing so meant he had to let go of his feelings of attachment to Katara.

Raph is the only Turtle who continues to see Donnie's feelings for April as delusional. And even points out that April is not going to see him beyond being a friend and possibly a brother figure, so he should do himself a favor and just stop believing that April would even want to be with him in that way.

[Tarris Vaal]

Sure new mutations are cool but once the coolness factor wears off, they are just another monster that roars in your face.

It's like mutations demotes you to background status.

I am a little worried that is what will happen to Bebop/Rocksteady.

I think a lot of the problem is simply screentime. Fishface, Rahzar, Baxter and Tigerclaw are actually all quite interesting characters - and I also really agree Slash has a huge amount of potential (and Newtralizer/Leatherhead for that matter).

But

Its just fitting the time in the show for everyone, when it just isnt there; Especially with mid range villains.

I'm hoping at some point they will do a 'villain's perspective' episode, where we get very little of the Turtles themselves, and the episode focuses on a little bit more background and the thoughts on each of Tigerclaw, Rahzar and Fishface. I'd love to see Tigerclaws reasons for joining with the Shredder, and a potential rivalry brewing between him and Rahzar/Fishface.
I'd also love to see Fishface and Rahzar starting to doubt Shredder's motives (perhaps as Bebop/Rocksteady start to seemingly replace them). Having them partly redeem themselves (and possibly even dying in the process) by helping the Turtles I would think would make for a nice resolution to their characters. - Mikey forgiving Rahzar as Rahzar dies would be quite moving I think, and equally a mutual respect between Fishface and Raph would be great development. (Raph raging at Tigerclaw for taking down Xever for example)

Baxter has enough potential to provide a quiet little betrayal arc in the background of other episodes and I dont think he really needs a focus until he is in position to make good on it (perhaps quietly replacing Shredder as the Kraang's main ally).

Karai will be fine simply because of who she is, and the importance of her position between Shredder and Splinter. Once she is back, its unlikely she will leave much until her story is largely resolved.

I'm really hoping that Slash becomes much more prevalent in the context of a Dark Raph arc. Slash seems to have mellowed since his first appearance, so he is in the position of having 'been in that dark place' where Raph could end up, and come back from it. If Raph was forced to fight and kill Slash it would really provide a seismic shift for Raph's character (and allows him to kill/seriously injure a character close to him who isn't primary cast).

Splinter appears to have grasped that Donnie's feelings for April were not a crush but actual true love way back in season 1. Because initially when Donnie protests about being kept in the lair for year so they can learn to fight as a team, Splinter isn't happy about him speaking out of turn. But when Donnie continues to plead his case, Splinter senses something and that enabled him to change his mind. If it had just been a crush, Splinter would have just said this is a girl he barely knows and the authorities in the city will deal with the abduction.

Splinter does go out of his way to true and put him off though - the whole 'liking falling down' lesson. I suspect Splinter is trying to warn him off, but without outright banning him from pursuing her. I suspect he is somewhere between Leo and Raph's perspectives on the whole thing.

Of all of them you're right that Mikey does seem the most sympathetic about it. It might make for a good one shot episode if he helps arrange something nice for Donnie and April (like secretly trying to arrange a mutation day date between them, even as Mikey is trying to avoid being attacked by 'mutant of the week'). As sickeningly sweet as that sounds :lol:

[victory_angel]

Splinter does go out of his way to true and put him off though - the whole 'liking falling down' lesson. I suspect Splinter is trying to warn him off, but without outright banning him from pursuing her. I suspect he is somewhere between Leo and Raph's perspectives on the whole thing.



Well if you remember Splinter early on in season one said that the Shredder couldn't accept that Tang Shen didn't choose him as her husband and became consumed by jealousy.

So when Splinter comes in and invites Donnie to join him in that "learn to love falling down." lesson. Donnie had been ranting to Timothy in jealousy about how April is hanging out with another boy.

So Splinter was meaning the lesson as a reminder that he can't force April to like him back. But it also was to help derail Donatello from falling down the Shredder's path. And later when he talks to Donatello he says April's desire to leave was her choice and if she returns it's because she wants to. Which also points out that in the end it will be April's choice over which boy she ends up with. Though recent actions have indicated that yes she has chosen Donnie as her suitor it is still anyone's guess.

[victory_angel]

Recent episode had Stockman attempting to create retromutagen. So perhaps Stockman attempts to test a batch and it's a failure. Shredder sees it and is anything but pleased with Stockman's progress.

Stockman pleads with Shredder for one more chance...and then blurts out one of the Turtles has made Retromutagen. Shredder allows Stockman to explain but he isn't happy that he is only now learning of this.

Tiger Claw says he would go out and retrieve the Turtle.

The mean time the turtles are out looking for Karai and they've Split into teams of three. Donnie is leading the group with Mikey/Casey while Leo has Raph and April. Donnie's team doesn't see any sign of Karai in their section of the city so he says they should return to their meet up point, but keep an eye out for Karai.

That's when they are attacked by Foot Bots. There are too many for them to send fight alone so Donnie sends a distress signal to his brothers and April when he is grabbed by Tiger Claw and brought to the Shredder.

The Shredder demands that Donatello help Stockman create Retromutagen. Donnie refuses to say. So he gets locked up in Stockman's lab until he is able to cooperate. Before leaving, Tiger Claw warns Donnie that he should save himself a lot of trouble and just do as the Shredder says.

[Tarris Vaal]

Tiger Claw says he would go out and retrieve the Turtle.

Did anyone else hear Tigerclaw's voice in their head whilst reading that line?

That actually seems very plausible overall. It would be a nice way to reinforce the vision quest of Donnie vs Tigerclaw as well

[victory_angel]

Did anyone else hear Tigerclaw's voice in their head whilst reading that line?

That actually seems very plausible overall. It would be a nice way to reinforce the vision quest of Donnie vs Tigerclaw as well

Also Tiger Claws statement of "And they call you the smart one?! I am twice your size and three times your strength! You...Will...Fall!!"

He was pretty much saying "If your really as smart as they say you would know you have no chance in beating me."

However Tiger Claw also shown he believes in honor and he was sort of impressed by Leonardo during the invasion when he comments that Leonardo fights bravely.

And he also isn't above reason as he does question the Shredder in this recent episode where he says "We already have the city! Are you just going to let the Kraang take over the world?"

And the Shredder is pretty much "Destroying the Kraang is on my to do list, but Karai has greater priority."


So I can see him telling Donnie to do the 'smart thing' and just give into the Shredder. But I can see Donnie trying to get to know and understand Tiger Claw as an enemy as well even if it's just biding time until his family arrives.

[Tarris Vaal]

Thats an interesting thought in itself! - The idea of several of Shredder's mutants slowing turning against him (even siding with the turtles) as Shredder becomes progressively more insane.

I can well imagine Tigerclaw slowly coming to an agreement with a captured Donatello and organising Rahzar/Fishface to try and take Shredder down - especially if Rocksteady/Bebop become his go to hit men. As you say, Tigerclaw - brutal though he is - has a sense of honour and seems to share Karai's (justified) distrust of the Kraang and Rahzar and Fishface already have some justification to be disenchanted of the Foot.

It could well mark the transition of the older mutants to the newer 'gang' with many of the older ones being killed in the fight, to be replaced with Rocksteady, Bebop and potentially Dark Raph.

I could also imagine Baxter would be slowly twisting Shredder's mental state behind the scenes, making odd suggestions now and then to manipulate Shredder's actions, eventually making Baxter the 'power behind the throne' (at least in Baxter's mind).

[victory_angel]

I doubt Donnie is going to stay home just because the Retromutagen puts his life at greater risk. So I normally don't like it when fics has one of the Turtles (mostly Donnie) told to stay home because their in grave danger. And I don't think this incarnation of Donnie would appreciate being under constant protective guard either.

They are all probably well aware that since retromutagen while a valuable tool in restoring the city, can also be dangerous if their enemies become aware of it. So they all would have to be on their guard for whatever happens

[Bitsy83]

They are all probably well aware that since retromutagen while a valuable tool in restoring the city, can also be dangerous if their enemies become aware of it. So they all would have to be on their guard for whatever happens

Let's focus on this for a moment.

In the last episodes with Tigerclaw and Shredder, we're definitely seeing some tension between the two. I know Tigerclaw is bad and and is loyal to the Shredder, but he he does have his morals. In the "Wormquake" episode, he sided with Karai that killing Splinter while he was weak and defenseless had no honor; He found using Karai as bait to lure Splinter was diabolical; and he's has clearly stated more than once that the alliance with the Kraang is going to end badly.

Still, he sees himself as a valuable asset to Shredder and doesn't think his position will be compromised anytime soon.

Now, since Victory Angel and I are still hoping for the "Kidnap Donnie" arc, let's say this does happen and Donnie is held in that weird habitat that Splinter was held in. And we go on my prediction that the Turtles, Casey, and April were sent to another dimension and try to get back home without Donnie, (but find their way to the 80s and get help from OT Donnie).

While that's going on, Donnie is still a prisoner. He finds out that Shredder isn't going to go to the Kraang for any "mind control" devices to brainwash Donnie into revealing the formula. This is mainly due to the fact that he doesn't want the Kraang to know that he's searching for Retromutagen; by this point, he has given up on relying on them to cure Karai since they have no value for human life.

Tigerclaw takes full-responsibilty in trying to get the formula from Donnie, making threats and even beating him up a few times. (Remember, he has a vendetta against the Turtles, so he doesn't feel it TOO dishonorable to torture him a bit). Donnie remains strong, but can't understand how he wasn't able to defeat Tigerclaw in the real world since he was able to defeat him in the spirit world. Then he has the epiphany that while he shouldn't ALWAYS rely on his mind, some battles HAVE to be fought with his mind. So he takes a different approach...

When Tigerclaw confronts him again, asking him why he has not given the formula to Shredder since they both want to help Karai, Donnie says that it's not the only reason Shredder would want that retromutagen.

It's true, the Shredder's main reason is to use it on Karai and he's totally ok with that, but if he had access to that formula for future doses, it could be used against Tigerclaw as well....

DONNIE: Think about it, Kitty. Sure, Shredder will get his "daughter" back and achieve his goal, but he was willing to sacrifice her as bait for Splinter. You and I both know that Shredder only cares for one thing: complete domination. Whether it be over his clan, his enemies....or his number one guy.

TIGERCLAW: What are you talking about, Turtle?

DONNIE: Do you really think the retromutagen would be a threat to Fishface or Stockman or even Rahzar? If he used it on them, he'd be doing them a favor. Last time they found out I made retromutgen, they were fighting over it like lions over a scrap of meat. They would love to be human again. But you? You'd just go back to being a regular tiger, wouldn't you? A one-eyed, no-tailed, simple-minded creature who wouldn't be as much of a threat as you are now. You're like me, Tigerclaw. You love having the intellect and motor skills of a human. You'd hate to lose that. Once Shredder gets that formula, it's like he'd be putting a big ol' leash on you. One more step out of line, and he'd just put that stuff in a spray bottle and make you his pet...or a nice fur skinned rug. I bet you'd look great draped over his throne; it'd really bring the room together.

TIGERCLAW: SILENCE!!! I have proven myself to Master Shredder! He knows I am...

DONNIE: What, irreplaceable? Dude, the psycho's got enough mutagen to make a whole army of you guys. He's already made a giant rhino; what would stop him from moving on to other deadly creatures? Wolverines, lions, grizzly bears...possibilities are endless. Face it, Tigerclaw. He's already risked his whole planet on this; what makes you any more special?

(Sorry for the script, but I felt this was easier to describe in dialogue.)

Now this could all backfire on Donnie later. Like maybe he finds a way to escape and as he's going to the tunnels, Tigerclaw finds him, but instead of bringing him back to Shredder alive, he'd stage an "accident" where Donnie was killed trying to get away. Tigerclaw knows that as long as Donnie's alive, his future as a regular tiger is still possible. So he'd rather die like a man than fear living like a beast. Then we'd get a proper fight between Donnie and Tigerclaw and would hopefully end in epicness.

[victory_angel]

Great idea Bits, however Tiger Claw was originally a human not a tiger. It was stated in Wormquake by Rahzar that the Kraang had turned him into a mutant when he had been a child decades ago. We don't know what Shredder did to entice tiger claw. Perhaps finding the person who sliced off his tail. Or maybe getting eventual vengeance against the Kraang.

So if Donnie is trapped in on of those cells at Stockman's lab, I can see Donnie trying to understand his enemy rather then taunt them. Even if it's taunting them with the truth.

For example if it was Fishface:

Fishface: If you know whats good for you boy, you will make the retromutagen for Master Shredder.

Donatello: Why do you wish to be human once again?

Fishface: You dare to ask me that?! It was you and your brothers who made me this way!

Donatello: Actually we were stopping the mutagen bomb when you and Bradford arrived. Your mutation didn't need to happen. You both were given the choice to walk away, Bradford is the one who stabbed the mutagen container causing your mutation.

Fishface: Either way...I intend to see you suffer for your crimes.

Donatello: Do you think Shredder would allow you to become human again?

Fishface: Shut up...once Master Shredder his daughter is returned to human...then...

Donatello: He will eliminate me so that no one in his mutant army could be returned to human ever again.

Fishface: You...watch you're mouth.

Donatello: He might consider testing the retromutagen on me first...and I suspect when that happens he would get a sudden craving for Turtle Soup.

Fishface: I hope so...You are only alive because the Shredder has need of you! But I will take so much pleasure at seeing the look on your brothers faces when they learn you were not only turned back into a lowly little Turtle but put on the Shredder's dinner menu.

If they don't capture Donatello, I can see Tiger Claw given the task of retrieving the Retromutagen because he's the one who is least likely to use it on himself. Even if it's claimed as an accident or just to test it out the Shredder would kill them if he learned they used it before Karai.

So if Donatello is imprisoned and it's Tiger Claw who is brought in to persuade him to create the retromutagen I can see something along the lines of:

Tiger Claw: I am impressed with your resilience Turtle, but in the end it will get you nowhere.

Donatello: Can I ask you a question...why did you join the Foot Clan?

Tiger Claw: That is between me and the Shredder...why would such things matter to an insolent cub?

Donatello: You aren't like the other people that Shredder hires, so I thought perhaps if I understood your reason...

Tiger Claw: All you need to understand boy...is that your life is in the Shredder's hands.

[Tarris Vaal]

How would you imagine Donatello being captured in the first instance? I'm just wondering how it might fit into the existing time span.

If we assume the show is intended for 5 seasons max, with shorter seasons 4/5, then we have 2 1/2 seasons to go. There is still the Kraang arc to resolve (potentially end of season 3), but then you'd need a good cliffhanger to drag viewers back for season 4.

So it would make for good timing for Donnie to be separated and captured then, allowing a lot of the beatings/torture to be implied 'between seasons'.

For myself, I imagine that the Kraang are likely to be defeated using a reverse polarity portal (similar to wormquake) - and trapped in Dimension X. I would expect the crazy shopkeeper from the Dream Beaver episode to make a reappearance, as we know he has made 'dimensional tech' before, and have Donnie assist with using it to banish the Kraang to another dimension.

During that climax, I can imagine Kraang prime making a last ditch effort to force her way back to Earth, so the other Turtles, Casey and April face her whilst Donnie desperately tries to close the portal they've opened. During the fight, Donnie discovers Shredder has laid a trap and the others are in terrible danger. He seals them deliberately away in a different dimension to the Kraang, maybe sending some message or instructions to April's Tphone on how to return.
Portal closes, Kraang and the others sealed away and Donnie is captured by Shredder.

The trauma of the journey into Dimension Y causes the message he sent to April to become scrambled. They now have to work their way back alone without it (maybe have just one line unscrambled, something personal to April - 'I will find you'. Or something like that).

Season 4 starts with Donnie being beaten to reveal the retromutagen's secrets, and a slow shift in Tigerclaw's loyalties. The others start making their way back - April constantly checking her phone and listening to the one message that survived. She seems more affected by Donnie's loss than anyone. They meet up with a Donnie from a different dimension who helps them decode the message and starts getting them home.

During this period in Dimension jumping, rifts between Raph and the others start to widen - particularly given the tension of not knowing what's happened to Donnie.

They get back to Earth roughly mid season 4 and manage to rescue Donnie from Shredder. When they do, Donnie hugs April, he doesn't say anything because he's too exhausted and hurt to do so. She returns it eagerly without a word.

However, Raph has become increasingly distant, and by the end of Season 4 joins the Foot clan - replacing Tigerclaw after Tigerclaw makes a failed effort to replace Shredder who is clearly insane by this point and has been manipulated by Baxter to confront the EPF with increasingly ferocious tactics. Tigerclaw and Baxter do not survive the end of season 4, both falling to Raph, as a shock ending to draw viewers for season 5.

[victory_angel]

Well since we do have the 2012 Turtles meeting their 1987 counter parts. Perhaps there could be a situation where they meet their 2003 counter parts as well.

We also have the Dark Raph plot line, and I think Raph trying to put the brain washing device on Mikey in Buyakashowdown was foreshadowing he would get get it placed on him.

This Shredder isn't really the capturing and imprisoning type and he also isn't very patient. He is more like slow and horrible or quick and painful death sort. Generally he tries to kill the Turtles if he sees them though he doesn't think they are worthy of being killed by him.

He imprisons Karai but that is more of a very extreme time out for betraying him. And Splinter because he had lost his sanity so he wanted Hamato Yoshi's mind restored so he would at least know who it was that was killing him.

Perhaps the season could end with a cliff hanger and that could be Donnie is sucked into a time vortex and finds himself a few decades in the future. And that could be the explanation as to what happened to Donatello rather then vaguely saying that he had disappeared and was supposedly dead.

But if possible focusing on the other turtles as they try to open the time vortex to get Donnie back...

Another possibility is that same as it never was universe made the places the other guys were sent to look like vacations and this version of Donnie tends to withdraw more then come foreword with his problems and issues. Perhaps he is sent forward a few decades and he's able to come back at the end of the finally, but we don't know what he saw or experienced. All the other guys know is whatever he experience bothered him and changed him in some way.

Then the next season we could have memory flashes of the world Donnie experienced as night terrors or and also maybe him obsessively trying to fix the security system and such.

[ninja-zero]

Wonder after bebop and rocksteady get mutated, will they explain their origins to the turtles?

And the pig & rhino secretly team up with Stockman to make a retromutagen for themselves to get their revenge on Shredder.

[Tarris Vaal]

This Shredder isn't really the capturing and imprisoning type and he also isn't very patient. He is more like slow and horrible or quick and painful death sort. Generally he tries to kill the Turtles if he sees them though he doesn't think they are worthy of being killed by him.

He imprisons Karai but that is more of a very extreme time out for betraying him. And Splinter because he had lost his sanity so he wanted Hamato Yoshi's mind restored so he would at least know who it was that was killing him.

This is actually a good point. Why would Shredder ever keep Donnie alive if he captured him? The retromutagen is a danger as much as it is a weapon to keep mutants in line, would it not be less risky to simply kill him?

It did occur to me, that a reason that Shredder might keep Donnie around is if we have got the Dark Raph plot all wrong, and its actually a Dark Donnie plot;

Mainly because of Apritello we have had Donnie as being the primary audience connection character (April is the primary human character and the audiences connection to the Turtles, and she is closest to Donnie). He has shown himself as a vital member to the team, largely pacifistic and generally very kind hearted. So any change to that would be quite a shock.

Given that there is Kraang mind control tech - and Donnie would be the primary means of negating it on any of the others - , perhaps it is not a Dark Raph scenario we have approaching, but actually Donnie. Imagine Shredder does capture him, and then tries to torture him for information. When that doesnt work, Donnie is simply coerced by the Kraang mind control device.

He now becomes a perfect means to capture April, whose blood might also be key to a weaponised mutagen similar to the Kraangs - far more useful to Shredder. The others then have to find a way to save Donnie without Donnie's expertise to help them.

I'd love to see April trying to talk Donnie around from inside her cell, pleading for him to come back, only for Donnie to turn away - maybe crying a single tear to show that he is trying to fight back the control, but simply cant.


Wonder after bebop and rocksteady get mutated, will they explain their origins to the turtles?

And the pig & rhino secretly team up with Stockman to make a retromutagen for themselves to get their revenge on Shredder.

Be interesting to see exactly how loyal the two of them are...

[victory_angel]

Plausible situation, however it was stated at one of the comic cons by either Ciro or Auman that Raph would have the dark plot.

And Shredder does want to restore Karai to human. His only means to restore Karai is with Donnie's retromutagen. However Donnie's element is mountain so if he has proven he is strong of his mind and body, he would also have to learn how to be strong of Spirit as well.

I can recall a part of the 2k3 series where Donnie is captured by the Triceraton's, and they force a mind probe on him so they can learn where the Fugatoid is being hidden. While his mind and memories are being invaded as it were he calls out for Master Splinter, and Splinter senses his son's distress and uses meditation to link up with him destroying the machine.

And in the image comic he does mentally reach out to Leo to inform him about what has happened and what condition he's in.

It is sort of hinted Donnie in the current version is familiar with some spiritual practice, though he is reliant on more tangible concepts of exploration. But we also know Donnie is reliant upon and strongly cares about his brothers and companions, valuing them more then his own life.

Maybe Stockman has formula for retromutagen, but he still needs a key to make it work.

So maybe Raph tells Shredder that Donnie is able to create Retromutagen. Leading to Donatello's capture. When Donnie refuses Shredder has one of those mind control devices installed to force him to comply. Donnie tries to resist it, April senses Donnie's distress and tells Splinter, Leo, Mikey, and Casey that she she sensed him just now and it felt like he was in pain. Splinter and or maybe Leo asks April to connect minds with them so they can maybe help deal with the problem. Their minds connect with Donnie's and that causes the mind control device to short out.

Raph then suggests that they bring April as she is at the center of everything with the Kraang. Donnie fancies her perhaps she would be more forth coming. Shredder has April captured and he finds it difficult to believe that such seemingly insignificant girl is so important.

Shredder first threatens April's life unless Donnie reveals the key to making Retromutagen. April starts protesting to Donnie telling him to not say anything...that she's not worth it.

Donnie in turn grits his teeth and just says it requires human DNA. Stockman says the boy is lying because they already tried human DNA.

Shredder then draws his blades and tells April that perhaps she would be more willing to share and threatens to kill Donnie. April then speaks up and says she is the key...the Kraang created her as a means to stabilize their mutagen and serve as a living weapon. She is immune to the effects of the mutagen, and a drop of her DNA can be used to create the Retromutagen.

Stockman then says he would strap her to a machine that will drain every drop of blood from her vains.

[Bitsy83]

Plausible situation, however it was stated at one of the comic cons by either Ciro or Auman that Raph would have the dark plot.

And Shredder does want to restore Karai to human. His only means to restore Karai is with Donnie's retromutagen. However Donnie's element is mountain so if he has proven he is strong of his mind and body, he would also have to learn how to be strong of Spirit as well.

I can recall a part of the 2k3 series where Donnie is captured by the Triceraton's, and they force a mind probe on him so they can learn where the Fugatoid is being hidden. While his mind and memories are being invaded as it were he calls out for Master Splinter, and Splinter senses his son's distress and uses meditation to link up with him destroying the machine.

And in the image comic he does mentally reach out to Leo to inform him about what has happened and what condition he's in.

It is sort of hinted Donnie in the current version is familiar with some spiritual practice, though he is reliant on more tangible concepts of exploration. But we also know Donnie is reliant upon and strongly cares about his brothers and companions, valuing them more then his own life.

Maybe Stockman has formula for retromutagen, but he still needs a key to make it work.

So maybe Raph tells Shredder that Donnie is able to create Retromutagen. Leading to Donatello's capture. When Donnie refuses Shredder has one of those mind control devices installed to force him to comply. Donnie tries to resist it, April senses Donnie's distress and tells Splinter, Leo, Mikey, and Casey that she she sensed him just now and it felt like he was in pain. Splinter and or maybe Leo asks April to connect minds with them so they can maybe help deal with the problem. Their minds connect with Donnie's and that causes the mind control device to short out.

Raph then suggests that they bring April as she is at the center of everything with the Kraang. Donnie fancies her perhaps she would be more forth coming. Shredder has April captured and he finds it difficult to believe that such seemingly insignificant girl is so important.

Shredder first threatens April's life unless Donnie reveals the key to making Retromutagen. April starts protesting to Donnie telling him to not say anything...that she's not worth it.

Donnie in turn grits his teeth and just says it requires human DNA. Stockman says the boy is lying because they already tried human DNA.

Shredder then draws his blades and tells April that perhaps she would be more willing to share and threatens to kill Donnie. April then speaks up and says she is the key...the Kraang created her as a means to stabilize their mutagen and serve as a living weapon. She is immune to the effects of the mutagen, and her a drop of her DNA is used to create the Retromutagen.

Stockman then says he would strap her to a machine that will drain every drop of blood from her vains.

.......HO-kay, we need to make a pact. Whenever this Kraang plot is FINALLY wrapped up and ANY of our predictions are even REMOTELY true, we celebrate! Wherever we are when this happens, within the next 24 hours we treat ourselves to pizza and ice cream for being such imaginative fans who love to see our dear Donnie go through hell.

But, i agree. Something similar to the 2k3 Donnie being tortured and April severing the connection would be awesome.

[victory_angel]

.......HO-kay, we need to make a pact. Whenever this Kraang plot is FINALLY wrapped up and ANY of our predictions are even REMOTELY true, we celebrate! Wherever we are when this happens, within the next 24 hours we treat ourselves to pizza and ice cream for being such imaginative fans who love to see our dear Donnie go through hell.

But, i agree. Something similar to the 2k3 Donnie being tortured and April severing the connection would be awesome.

I'm game for that Bits. And we should have a photo or video of us eating said pizza or ice cream as we celebrate.

Maybe I should owe you anime character such as that Unicorn Girl I uses as an avatar for example.

[Tarris Vaal]

Splinter and or maybe Leo asks April to connect minds with them so they can maybe help deal with the problem. Their minds connect with Donnie's and that causes the mind control device to short out.

I'm betting that something like this coming further down the line might be why April's powers have been depicted as getting progressively stronger. We can make a reasonable assumption it will be critical to eventually defeating the Kraang, but once they are gone, it becomes a question of what to do with those powers on the character then. Either they will disappear almost completely (perhaps with only a little hint she may get them back) or they will remain ready for the next plot arc - Dark Raph.

If Donnie in earlier incarnations of the show has already been attacked with mind control tech, it does seem a good chance this show will take the chance for that 'link' to earlier series and do something very similar, and using April's powers as a way of reaching him and breaking him out of the link would be a logical choice - plus it would give the chance for April and Donnie to see exactly what the other is thinking during the link, which might help finally bring a conclusion to Apritello (maybe end the episode with them holding hands or something).

.......HO-kay, we need to make a pact. Whenever this Kraang plot is FINALLY wrapped up and ANY of our predictions are even REMOTELY true, we celebrate! Wherever we are when this happens, within the next 24 hours we treat ourselves to pizza and ice cream for being such imaginative fans who love to see our dear Donnie go through hell.

I'm sure we can think of horrible things to do to the others as well :)

[Bitsy83]

I'm game for that Bits. And we should have a photo or video of us eating said pizza or ice cream as we celebrate.

Maybe I should owe you anime character such as that Unicorn Girl I uses as an avatar for example.

LOL. Deal. Which reminds me, I work at a grocery store and sometimes the bakery makes Ninja Turtles coookies. I took a picture of it last week that I seriously need to upload.

Aw, you'd do that? I'd love a new avatar, honestly. I'm not huge on anime, but I'll brainstorm possible characters (ones that won't be too hard to draw). It'll be something TMNT related, hope you don't mind.

I'm betting that something like this coming further down the line might be why April's powers have been depicted as getting progressively stronger. We can make a reasonable assumption it will be critical to eventually defeating the Kraang, but once they are gone, it becomes a question of what to do with those powers on the character then. Either they will disappear almost completely (perhaps with only a little hint she may get them back) or they will remain ready for the next plot arc - Dark Raph.

If Donnie in earlier incarnations of the show has already been attacked with mind control tech, it does seem a good chance this show will take the chance for that 'link' to earlier series and do something very similar, and using April's powers as a way of reaching him and breaking him out of the link would be a logical choice - plus it would give the chance for April and Donnie to see exactly what the other is thinking during the link, which might help finally bring a conclusion to Apritello (maybe end the episode with them holding hands or something).

If there was a proper way to end (or at least confirm) Apritello, this would be the way to do it. I also have seen people make pics of April with tentacles coming out of her head like a Kraang and her eyes turning green. Like her Kraang DNA becoming more dominant over her body, slowly separating her mind from her human side.

That might also be a cool way of ending the arc. Having April use her Kraang powers to mind link to all the Kraang on the planet, open up the portals and just send them hurtling back, NOT to Dimension X (because that would just lead to another invasion in the future), but to some other Dimension where they wouldn't be able to survive. (Ok, a bit deus ex machina, but what hasn't been that with April lately.)

When she does this, she starts to lose control and creates a telekinetic whirlwind (like what happened to Terra in "Teen Titans" when she first fought Slade). Of course, Donnie leaps in and grabs her hand, pulling her close in a hug to help calm her down, which she does. They both slowly float down to the ground and her powers slowly subside. They're just looking at each other and...MAYBE kiss, depending on what the writers will be allowed to show. (You know how parents are...)

But you're right; I think once the Kraang are totally gone, April's powers won't be as accessible anymore. I think someone mentioned how the Kraang are like a hive mind and the reason April had these "sensing" powers all her life was because the Kraang had always been there living among us. It wasn't until she really tried to tap into them with her Kunoichi training that they became more powerful, linking herself to the other Kraang. With them gone, it'd be like Harry Potter and his scar when he defeated Voldemort. (I'm not sure how much of a spoiler that is but I'm sure there are some people who haven't read it yet).

I'm sure we can think of horrible things to do to the others as well :)

I...already have. I have this really bad feeling that Karai will never be cured since Baxter (and Shredder, if you think about it) tampered with the mutagen too much. If Donnie does make a retromutagen, it'd just work temporarily. Then she starts to slowly turn back into a snake and then revert to her primal form again. I imagine her becoming and snake and Mikey trying to help her, but she lashes out and bites him, poisoning him. Raph sees this and, what else, goes all rage-a-holic on her. Leo stops it and tries to get talk sense into Karai, but she's pretty much convinced that she'll never be human again and can't be trusted.

Not only that, but I really don't think Karai will truly come to the Turtles side. Like she said in "Vengence is Mine"; her entire life was nothing but vengeance and hatred. It'd be hard for her to learn anything else and I'm afraid her vendetta against the Shredder will end up putting the Turtles and Splinter in danger. She was perfectly safe when she went to live at the lair, but cared more for hunting Shredder than trying to work on her relationship with her long-lost dad.

If anything, she'll be an anti-hero at most. I just can't see her working alongside the Turtles full-time.

[victory_angel]

Aw, you'd do that? I'd love a new avatar, honestly. I'm not huge on anime, but I'll brainstorm possible characters (ones that won't be too hard to draw). It'll be something TMNT related, hope you don't mind.

I didn't actually draw that, I got it from a character template book and colored it on photoshop. But I have a book on fantasy character clip art that isn't anime-esk. Nothing turtle related though there are some ninja in the anime character templates. And some are still passable even if they are anime-esk.

such as http://rlv.zcache.com/isapi/designall.dll?action=getimage&id=70da0900-56d5-4759-a97f-d937f5ce5625&max_dim=324&square_it=true&bg=0000

But I have other things I can use such as angels
http://rlv.zcache.com/isapi/designall.dll?action=getimage&id=e42360bf-c67e-433c-88cf-7f6b4a102805&max_dim=324&square_it=true&bg_pattern=0000

If there was a proper way to end (or at least confirm) Apritello, this would be the way to do it. I also have seen people make pics of April with tentacles coming out of her head like a Kraang and her eyes turning green. Like her Kraang DNA becoming more dominant over her body, slowly separating her mind from her human side.

That might also be a cool way of ending the arc. Having April use her Kraang powers to mind link to all the Kraang on the planet, open up the portals and just send them hurtling back, NOT to Dimension X (because that would just lead to another invasion in the future), but to some other Dimension where they wouldn't be able to survive. (Ok, a bit deus ex machina, but what hasn't been that with April lately.)

When she does this, she starts to lose control and creates a telekinetic whirlwind (like what happened to Terra in "Teen Titans" when she first fought Slade). Of course, Donnie leaps in and grabs her hand, pulling her close in a hug to help calm her down, which she does. They both slowly float down to the ground and her powers slowly subside. They're just looking at each other and...MAYBE kiss, depending on what the writers will be allowed to show. (You know how parents are...)

I don't know how expected April's psychic powers actually were. I mean they did sort of awaken sometime after all that happened to her during show down. So in Showdown it seemed suggestive that she was a living weapon or the battery for one. But in season two we learn her DNA stabilizes the mutagen.

And this most recent episode April said she could only sense a scant hundred people still within the city. Some of these maybe brainwashed individuals, and others are the Purple Dragons, and the Shredder. But what about the rest of them...If my theory that April is a neutrino be correct, then perhaps there are other people who were created by the Kraang like April had been.

Perhaps April is captured or willingly surrenders herself to the Kraang to save the Turtles from certain doom. This creates a weapon that will kraangify the world within minutes.

The Turtles stop the machine, but April's powers are out of control and if she doesn't have something to focus on it would destroy her. Donnie and Casey rush forward, Donnie makes it to April while Casey is knocked aside by a blast of power. And for a moment it looks as though April's powers erupt forcing everyone out of the room for there own safety. Despite Raph and/or Mikey saying they needed to get Donnie out of there, Leo insists that they don't have a choice.

When everything dies down the Turtles go into the room, at first they don't want to accept it. But just when they feel they must make peace with the fact Donnie and April are gone. Some rubble shifts and Donnie comes out of the rubble with April in his arms.

I have this really bad feeling that Karai will never be cured since Baxter (and Shredder, if you think about it) tampered with the mutagen too much. If Donnie does make a retromutagen, it'd just work temporarily. Then she starts to slowly turn back into a snake and then revert to her primal form again. I imagine her becoming and snake and Mikey trying to help her, but she lashes out and bites him, poisoning him. Raph sees this and, what else, goes all rage-a-holic on her. Leo stops it and tries to get talk sense into Karai, but she's pretty much convinced that she'll never be human again and can't be trusted.

Not only that, but I really don't think Karai will truly come to the Turtles side. Like she said in "Vengence is Mine"; her entire life was nothing but vengeance and hatred. It'd be hard for her to learn anything else and I'm afraid her vendetta against the Shredder will end up putting the Turtles and Splinter in danger. She was perfectly safe when she went to live at the lair, but cared more for hunting Shredder than trying to work on her relationship with her long-lost dad.

If anything, she'll be an anti-hero at most. I just can't see her working alongside the Turtles full-time.


I agree that it does make sense for her to be cured. We don't entirely know what that stuff Stockman accidentally knocked into the snake serum was. Though the fans suspect it is Retromutagen without the DNA added. Perhaps Donnie is able to create retromutagen and that supposedly turns her into a human once more. Only the cure is given to her by the Shredder not the Turtles. Karai is able to remember what happened and flies into a rage that turns her back into a snake again.

[Tarris Vaal]

I...already have. I have this really bad feeling that Karai will never be cured since Baxter (and Shredder, if you think about it) tampered with the mutagen too much. If Donnie does make a retromutagen, it'd just work temporarily. Then she starts to slowly turn back into a snake and then revert to her primal form again. I imagine her becoming and snake and Mikey trying to help her, but she lashes out and bites him, poisoning him. Raph sees this and, what else, goes all rage-a-holic on her. Leo stops it and tries to get talk sense into Karai, but she's pretty much convinced that she'll never be human again and can't be trusted.

I'm wondering how this will pan out with Karai. At first I was wondering maybe her transformations might be linked to an emotional state - kind of a snake hulk - but it doesn't fit well with how she has been depicted already. Instead, I think that Karai will end up with split personalities;

'Miwa' will be her Snake form. It is mostly her normal personality, but trapped in a monstrous body. She has already saved Splinter in this manner, and attacking the turtles whilst in normal state of mind is hardly unusual for her.

'Kiba' will be her human form, but it will be far more aggressive, far crueler and far more hostile - probably revenge driven.

Her mind is fractured between the two, and is constantly warring with itself for control. Splinter and the turtles (some of them at least) will want to help 'Miwa', but she doesn't trust herself to be around them when 'the other' would happily kill them.

She goes rogue, becoming an anti hero as you suggest, and puts most of her energy trying to kill Shredder, and anyone else in her way.

Donatello I think would be reluctant at first, but would come around to helping. Leo would actively be trying to track her to help, whilst Raph would be angry at him for trying to help someone he knows is a dangerous lunatic - sister or not. I can imagine whilst Donnie stays largely outside that argument, Mikey gets caught in between, and decides to try and reach her himself - not realising just how dangerous she is.

Mikey finds her first, tries to talk her around, not realising her human form is actually the more dangerous. She attacks and seriously hurts Mikey, forcing Raph to intervene as he and Leo arrive on scene in a nick of time. Leo and Raph fight both each other and Karai - Leo trying to defend her, whilst Raph trying to attack, and Karai attacking both of them.

Eventually Karai escapes, but Raph is furious at Leo for defending her when she's hurt Mikey.

When everything dies down the Turtles go into the room, at first they don't want to accept it. But just when they feel they must make peace with the fact Donnie and April are gone. Some rubble shifts and Donnie comes out of the rubble with April in his arms.

Whilst I agree this is entirely plausible, its sad how much it reminds me of the dark Phoenix in Xmen 3.... :(

Apritello has to end one way or another though. I guess it'd be interesting to see just how many fans actually would like a happy ending for them - shippers or not. Its not like they have to show anything on screen beyond a hug, hand holding or a kiss - just so long as the meaning is clear.

At this rate, to appease both sides, I'm thinking that she will eventually tell him she loves him, but is at that point already out of reach (trapped in alternate dimension, ascended to high level being, etc, etc - anything that would basically stop them being together, whilst allowing them to admit love briefly). Just so that the shippers get their victory, but they cant actually be 'together'.



Edit:

On a side note, given the size of this thread, at what point do we try and do a summary of thoughts so far on each character? :)

[Luckyday]

It depends. What you mean by giving thoughts on each character?


I guess I like the split personality idea. It would be even better if it was set up in way that we and the turtles are not told right away that she has a split personality and it's something we figure out.

I think maybe at first the show mislead us into thinking that the human side is her stable side but in reality it's devoid of emotion and compassion. It's basically a sociopath that's very makes very cold calculating moves. Her snake side however has positive emotions like love and happiness and personal attachment to friends and families but it's also the side that feels great angry and sadness.

It would be best for the show treat this as more of a mental illness rather then dismiss as a normal personality quirk otherwise it might come off as slightly misogynistic.

[victory_angel]

It depends. What you mean by giving thoughts on each character?


I guess I like the split personality idea. It would be even better if it was set up in way that we and the turtles are not told right away that she has a split personality and it's something we figure out.

I think maybe at first the show mislead us into thinking that the human side is her stable side but in reality it's devoid of emotion and compassion. It's basically a sociopath that's very makes very cold calculating moves. Her snake side however has positive emotions like love and happiness and personal attachment to friends and families but it's also the side that feels great angry and sadness.

It would be best for the show treat this as more of a mental illness rather then dismiss as a normal personality quirk otherwise it might come off as slightly misogynistic.

Both Donnie and Raph have indicated that they have no real reason to trust Karai aside from the fact that she is Splinters Daughter.

Raph has felt that Karai was bad news from the moment he met her and has been the most reluctant to see any sort of good in her.

Donnie on the other hand doesn't like her because she has attacked and tried to kill April on a couple of occasions. And despite his personal doubts about her, he still tries to give Leo the benefit of the doubt. But he does have that one moment in China Town Ghost Story where he does state that perhaps they have to accept that she is gone for good.

So perhaps if Karai does have a split personality she has a moment where she and April are together. April is trying to heal Karai, such as maybe helping her order Karai's thoughts so that she is more herself despite being a mutant. Mikey is with her because he has an empathy for monsters.

Unfortunately something goes wrong and Karai's more feral predatory nature comes forth and attacks both April and Mikey. Mikey defends April and gets bitten April is able to fend off Karai until the mutant snake girl can recover herself. Karai is horrified by what she has just done and runs off telling April to stay away if she knew what was good for her. April contacts Donnie about the incident and the other Turtles rush off to help.

Later Splinter tells everyone that Michelangelo will be alright. Donnie enters the room with Splinter, but it's clear he's bothered by all that has happened. When Splinter leaves to go to his room to meditate. Raphael at once tells Leo that this is why Karai could not be trusted. Leo continues to try to insist that Karai and that she can't help who she is. Donatello however speaks up and says that he is going to have to side with Raph on this one. Leo is a somewhat taken aback by this.

Donnie explains that he has tried to get to know Karai too see the good that Leo sees in her. But now he feels like he can't take a neutral view on the entire situation anymore.

Leo then accuses Donnie of just being sore that Karai attacked his imaginary girl friend. Only to realize that statement was too below the belt.

[Tarris Vaal]

It depends. What you mean by giving thoughts on each character?

Well I meant collecting ideas we had, had for episodes focused on specific characters - or arcs which focused on them over several episodes. So for instance, resolving Apritello stuff obviously focuses on April/Donatello, we're talking about Karai at the moment, we've discussed the possibility of how Dark Raph might work, that kind of thing :)


I guess I like the split personality idea. It would be even better if it was set up in way that we and the turtles are not told right away that she has a split personality and it's something we figure out.

This. This is precisely what I meant! I love the idea of having the snake as the 'truer' personality because its too easy to judge it for being a monster just for looking like one. It just masks the ambiguity of her character that much better :)


Mikey is with her because he has an empathy for monsters.

That's why I hope its Mikey and Leo who are the primary characters to try and 'save' her, rather than Donnie/Leo (Raph almost certainly wouldnt anyway). Though I think you are probably right April's mind powers will probably come into play if they discovered she had a split persona, and the corresponding danger that would put her in (and how Donnie would react to it)

[victory_angel]

From the looks of clip for the upcoming episode. Leo smacks April and Casey with the "Ninja's Only" statement.

Pehaps April gets fed up with the behavior and states that she is also member of the team and she doesn't feel like she is respected as such.

Leo then tells her the reason he doesn't want her to come with them is because of Donnie. He then clarifies that he's sure she is aware Donnie has feelings for her. April says that she is aware of this yes. Leo states he feels that while Donnie's feelings may be genuine, he feels that it may cause more harm then good. Currently they are at war with the Kraang and as such everything should be focused on taking back the city and ending the Kraangs reign of terror. And if April is with them then Donnie would be too distracted with trying to help her and his rivalry with Casey which will cause lapses in judgment. And also he doesn't want to see his brothers heart broken because of someone he would never be able to have.

April gets a better understanding of where Leo is coming from. However she also stands her ground and still feels like she is being treated like someone who needs to be protected. And he needs learn to not only to trust his brothers, but also trust in his allys.

[Bitsy83]

From the looks of clip for the upcoming episode. Leo smacks April and Casey with the "Ninja's Only" statement.

Pehaps April gets fed up with the behavior and states that she is also member of the team and she doesn't feel like she is respected as such.

Leo then tells her the reason he doesn't want her to come with them is because of Donnie. He then clarifies that he's sure she is aware Donnie has feelings for her. April says that she is aware of this yes. Leo states he feels that while Donnie's feelings may be genuine, he feels that it may cause more harm then good. Currently they are at war with the Kraang and as such everything should be focused on taking back the city and ending the Kraangs reign of terror. And if April is with them then Donnie would be too distracted with trying to help her and his rivalry with Casey which will cause lapses in judgment. And also he doesn't want to see his brothers heart broken because of someone he would never be able to have.

April gets a better understanding of where Leo is coming from. However she also stands her ground and still feels like she is being treated like someone who needs to be protected. And he needs learn to not only to trust his brothers, but also trust in his allys.

Great point, but why do I get the feeling that Leo would be saying this not just to April in regards to Donnie, but to himself in regards to Karai. I'm not talking about the whole "Splinter's daughter, so they're siblings" crap since it has been CLEARLY stated they are not blood related, but that maybe the Vision Quest gave Leo this sort of Jedi-complex. Like if he also gives in to his feelings for Karai, it'll distract him from the goal at hand.

Not like this is the first time it's happened. He liked her and felt that they were making a connection, but she would betray them like in the Justin incident or when they almost lured Tiger Claw to their lair. He keeps seeing Karai as this black-and-white scenario and that once she learned the truth, she'd be 100% good.

I really think Karai is going to go the anti-hero route. She clearly loves Splinter, but her thirst for vengeance is stronger than that. Like she feels that she won't be able to have a peaceful life until Shredder is dead and gone, but it'll sacrifice her relationship with both her father and the Turtles. Sort of like the "Count of Monte Cristo" and how revenge can either change you into a monster or you end up becoming worse than the person you want to harm. My mother always said that holding a grudge to someone was like drinking a bottle of poison and expecting the other person to die.

Plus, I really want to believe that Karai may still have SOME feelings for Shredder, despite what she's learned. And not only that, but even though Splinter is her real father, she hardly knows him other than what Shredder has told her through his lies and deceit. Yeah, he's a horrible man and did terrible things, but she's still the only father she's ever known and it'd be hard for her to just wipe her hands clean of all that.

[Tarris Vaal]

I also hope that they use her as a means of developing Shredder as well, he obviously is very distraught about what happened to her and its nice to see him with emotions beyond hate.

While Im not expecting her to ever rejoin him, it would be nice I think to see the fracturing of their relationship from his perspective as well.

[victory_angel]

I also hope that they use her as a means of developing Shredder as well, he obviously is very distraught about what happened to her and its nice to see him with emotions beyond hate.

While Im not expecting her to ever rejoin him, it would be nice I think to see the fracturing of their relationship from his perspective as well.

Yeah, Karai's alligance to the Shredder is dead and burried. While I have my doubts about the Shredder being the actual fatherly type. Seriously could you see him sitting at her bed side while she is sick, or telling her stories as a child.

Not really. He would have hired people to look after her when she was little. Had tutors come in and teach her how to read and write and such. Only interacting with her occasionally such as when he was training her. And then when she was older pretty much letting her raise herself.

But in that modicum of time while he was molding her into a weapon, yes part of him could have learned to love her and care for her.

Great point, but why do I get the feeling that Leo would be saying this not just to April in regards to Donnie, but to himself in regards to Karai. I'm not talking about the whole "Splinter's daughter, so they're siblings" crap since it has been CLEARLY stated they are not blood related, but that maybe the Vision Quest gave Leo this sort of Jedi-complex. Like if he also gives in to his feelings for Karai, it'll distract him from the goal at hand.

You bring up a good point as the Jedi were forbidden from marrage and attachment as that could lead to the dark side of the force. So maybe by dealing with Donnie's attachments to April he is also hoping to put his own internal struggles with Karai to rest.

You and I both seem to have similar theories that Donnie's relationship with April and Casey is being set up to mirror the triangle between Splinter/ Tang Shen/ Shredder. And so far majority of the agression in the triangle has come from Donnie's side of the relationship. Splinter has already had to intervine on one occasion to prevent Donnie from unconciously falling down the Shredders path. Perhaps Leo is beginning to see the paralell as well and knows if things continue it could cause irriparable damage to the team so he's trying to cut off the triangle by seperating Donnie from it.


Not like this is the first time it's happened. He liked her and felt that they were making a connection, but she would betray them like in the Justin incident or when they almost lured Tiger Claw to their lair. He keeps seeing Karai as this black-and-white scenario and that once she learned the truth, she'd be 100% good.

That is a vain hope on his part. Yes, Karai deserves to know the truth. But as she has said her like has been nothing but vengance and hatred. And when she is talking with Splinter she even demands why he didn't plan out and seek vengance against the Shredder. And he responds that vengance leads to more suffering and he is content with what he had. Karai however sees it more as avoiding justice and runs out to take matters into her own hands.

I really think Karai is going to go the anti-hero route. She clearly loves Splinter, but her thirst for vengeance is stronger than that. Like she feels that she won't be able to have a peaceful life until Shredder is dead and gone, but it'll sacrifice her relationship with both her father and the Turtles. Sort of like the "Count of Monte Cristo" and how revenge can either change you into a monster or you end up becoming worse than the person you want to harm. My mother always said that holding a grudge to someone was like drinking a bottle of poison and expecting the other person to die.

Indeed. She has been raised and trained in the manner of the Foot Clan. And even though she wants to know Splinter as her father and accept him. She can't because she has spent her entire life mired in the belief that vengance must be carried out. And even if the Shredder is defeated and slain, she is never going to be content with just that. Because she would have no direction once that was carried out.

Plus, I really want to believe that Karai may still have SOME feelings for Shredder, despite what she's learned. And not only that, but even though Splinter is her real father, she hardly knows him other than what Shredder has told her through his lies and deceit. Yeah, he's a horrible man and did terrible things, but she's still the only father she's ever known and it'd be hard for her to just wipe her hands clean of all that.

I can certainly see her mouthing off or coming to conflict with Splinter because of this. Because even though the Shredder was not one would call a loving father figure. He was still the only father she felt she had truely known. So there would have been some pent up resentment for Splinter such as why couldn't he have protected her mother better. Why didn't he kill the Shredder before all this happened?

And I have a feeling that perhaps Karai may have grown to accept her mutant form, and feel she should live apart from them for their safety and her sanity.

[victory_angel]

This most recent episodes had foreshadowing on the Foot Clan and other such villains attacking Donnie for the Retromutagen.

For example there is one moment in the confrontation between the Turtles and the Shredder. The Shredder grabbs Donnie by the shoulder strap and says "You mean nothing to me" before tossing him aside

And there was a moment where Donnie states that he has some Retromutagen nearly prepared before running into a group of Kraang droids. Fortunately the droids are all destroyed but the Kraang as always run off squeeling.

I can imagine that mad grab being a two part mid-season finally at the very least. It is not only going to be a mad grab for the retromutagen, it is also going to be man hunt. Donnie's nightmare with the dream beavers was him being hunted down like an animal and having nowhere he can really hide heck the poor guy is so scared hes practically hyperventalating. and then the dream ending with a near death experience.

So it's highly likely the Kraang will be informed the Turtles have a way of reversing the mutation process. And they need to make sure the turtle who is able to reverse the mutations is eliminated.

In the mean time Shredder would learn that stockman has failed to create retromutagen and threatens to eliminate him. Rahzar then mentions that one of the Turtles would have the desired cure. So Shredder sends everyone out to capture Donatello. If he has retromutagen take it from him.

At that same moment, Donnie is able to create retromutagen. Donnie once pours out a dose for Karai and leaves the rest for April's father and the rest of the city in safe hiding spot (maybe entrusts the location to April) incase anything happens.

Leo is ready to do this, because Karai is losing herself to her mutation so they have no time to waste.

Before they leave Splinter warns Donnie that things are more dangerous then they once had been. And while the Retromutagen he has created has proven useful, their enemies would stop at nothing to aquire the retromutagen from him or stop it's creation.


In the mean time Fishface and Rahzar are seeking out the Turtles. Both of them want to use the retromutagen on themselves first. Maybe come up solutions or excuses about why they have become human so the Shredder wouldn't be so angry with them.

Rocksteady and Bebop are also looking for the turtles. However their goal is to get the retromutagen for themselves and then disappearing within the city.

Tiger Claw and Stockman are hunting down the Turtles on their own. Stockman wanting the retromutagen for himself while Tiger Claw is loyaly wanting to capture the retromutagen for the Shredder as he is content with who he is.

On top of this there is the Kraang hunting him down as well. Maybe Mutagen Man on the loose wanting to kill Donnie for betraying him. I'd add having the EPF having a secret bunker underneath the city, but I think the Turtles would have enough on their plate with the Kraang and the Foot. But you never know.

I can see Raph going dark somewhere around episode 17 or 22.

After all those episodes have a pattern

Episode 17 Season one-Leatherhead sacrifices himself to bring Trag back to Dimention X

Episode 22 season one- Pulverizer is mutated into Timothy

Episode 17 season two- Slash goes from enemy to ally.

Episode 22 season two- Karai mutated into Kiba.

So it would make sense that Raph would join the Foot around that time.

[Tarris Vaal]

There is also the point that the EPF itself would be interested in retromutagen. Obviously in order to save the city, but also as a counter to the numerous mutants running around New York.

So have this as an idea; that is that its the EPF who capture Donnie, demanding he make retromutagen to save the city - they at first seem friendly enough and with good enough intentions, but it quickly becomes clear that they have in mind to turn on the turtles themselves, considering them just another batch of dangerous mutants. By this point the retromutagen is largely already made, and to test it, they use it on Donatello, reducing him to merely a normal turtle.

A nice mid/late season shock mutation :)

The others have to try and then recapture and then remutate him - possibly being forced to steal the rapidly dwindling mutagen supplies from Shredder in order to do so.

[JTH]

The show could pull a swerve.

Have the EPF need the help of the Turtles & April to stop the Kraang. They have April & Donnie help them within HQs for their knowledge of the Kraang makes them valuable for assistance and the others help the outer force. When the Kraang are eliminated, the EPF leader shows himself to April & Donnie in EPF HQs, and thank them for their efforts, however, declare that to prolong the safety of the planet, they must eliminate all things affected by the Kraang...meaning that The Turtles and April must be destroyed, and Donnie and April are taken prisoner, the others soon learn of the EPF's hidden agenda and try to stop them.

April and Donnie are used as experiments to see how the Kraang's mutagen/powers affected each of them, and they learn the name of the leader of EPF: Agent 001, but known by all as Agent Bishop.

[victory_angel]

Maybe the EPF do show up in that mad grab. Perhaps some point the Foot Clan captures Donnie and forces him to make retromutagen. Donnie refuses so the Shredder orders he should be given no food or water.

While the other turtles April and Casey are captured by the EPF where they encounter Agent Bishop. Mikey maybe compares to Bishop to Donnie...only he calls him "Evil Donnie"

Casey isn't really let go from the group. But he is the only 'Normal human' in the group...{Unless the reason the Kraang were trying to arrest him during the Invasion more then just trying to get the location of the lair from him.} so he would be locked up else where because he knew too much about what was going on. Casey is confused about why April isn't being locked up with him since she is a human as well. Bishop tells him that April has Alien DNA so she needs to be studied.

Shredder uses Donnie's T-Phone to taunt Leonardo and the other turtles about how he has their brother in his clutches so that they would come to his rescue. That way he can trap them and use them to force Donnie to create the Retromutagen. However Bishop had taken the Turtles and April's T-phones. Shredder learns about the EPF have the other Turtles and sees this as a new means for him to get rid of his enemies.

[Tarris Vaal]

Someone suggested a while ago that Agent Bishop could turn out to be Casey's mother - I cant credit that person the idea because I cant remember who it was!

But it might be a nice way of expanding Casey's character as well - Donnie would be in dire peril for his life and being coerced; April is being experimented on (perhaps as a means of enforcing Donnie's cooperation); Casey is caught between his friendship and his family ties.

If Karai is captured by the EPF as well, Leo could be forced to split the group to try and rescue everyone, choosing Karai over Donnie (who he feels can look after himself), despite Raph thinking otherwise; Raph gets frustrated over Leo's priorities and ends up captured himself as Shredder's minions pounce to take Karai from the EPF; Mikey tries to help Raph, but is overwhelmed and unable to stop his brother being taken.

Shredder drags Raph back to the lair where Raph's frustration and anger is used to manipulate him into joining the Foot. In the meantime, Donnie manages to escape the EPF himself as the simultaneous attacks by Shredder's minions and Leo splits the EPF and sows chaos; Donnie escapes, sabotaging the Retromutagen before he leaves. He finds and rescues April but is badly beaten in the process by Agent Bishop, with April struggling to use her powers and limited ninja skills to hold the EPF back and protect him.
Casey sees this and finally chooses his friends over his mother and helps Leo rescue Donnie and April.

My brain kind of runs out of steam at this point, largely because of a bored 4 year old. Please excuse me :)

[victory_angel]

Someone suggested a while ago that Agent Bishop could turn out to be Casey's mother - I cant credit that person the idea because I cant remember who it was!

But it might be a nice way of expanding Casey's character as well - Donnie would be in dire peril for his life and being coerced; April is being experimented on (perhaps as a means of enforcing Donnie's cooperation); Casey is caught between his friendship and his family ties.

If Karai is captured by the EPF as well, Leo could be forced to split the group to try and rescue everyone, choosing Karai over Donnie (who he feels can look after himself), despite Raph thinking otherwise; Raph gets frustrated over Leo's priorities and ends up captured himself as Shredder's minions pounce to take Karai from the EPF; Mikey tries to help Raph, but is overwhelmed and unable to stop his brother being taken.

Shredder drags Raph back to the lair where Raph's frustration and anger is used to manipulate him into joining the Foot. In the meantime, Donnie manages to escape the EPF himself as the simultaneous attacks by Shredder's minions and Leo splits the EPF and sows chaos; Donnie escapes, sabotaging the Retromutagen before he leaves. He finds and rescues April but is badly beaten in the process by Agent Bishop, with April struggling to use her powers and limited ninja skills to hold the EPF back and protect him.
Casey sees this and finally chooses his friends over his mother and helps Leo rescue Donnie and April.

My brain kind of runs out of steam at this point, largely because of a bored 4 year old. Please excuse me :)

While Agent Bishop being female would be interesting....I don't know I mean it's possible. But what if Agent Bishop is Casey's father. That could explain why Casey is so technical with his make shift weapontry (potato masher taser) and also explains what happened to him without his dad being conveniantly Kraagatized.

[Tarris Vaal]

While Agent Bishop being female would be interesting

Ah.

My mistake, sorry I thought he was a she! Just goes to show how much Turtle series background I know then :lol:

Though having said that - someone was complaining earlier that we dont have many female characters who aren't love interests. Guess that'd be one way to do it :)

[victory_angel]

Ah.

My mistake, sorry I thought he was a she! Just goes to show how much Turtle series background I know then :lol:

Though having said that - someone was complaining earlier that we dont have many female characters who aren't love interests. Guess that'd be one way to do it :)

I did suggest Mona Lisa could be April's mother, particularly if Pat Musick Mona Lisa's voice actress could revoice her role. Pat Musick is the mother of Mae Whitman (April's VA) so that would make it more approprate for April's mother to turn out to be Mona Lisa.

In the OT Mona was introduced as a physics major who was randomly kidnapped by a one shot villain known as Captain Fluke. When he learns she's a physics major he convinces her to help him take over the world which she agrees to until one night she tries to sabatoges his machine and ends up a mutant as a result.

And at the end of the episode it was hinted that Mona Lisa would have more apperances, but they never happen. Her character is essentually forgotten.

But if Mona Lisa is April's mother that could give her character a whole new story rather then being a one shot love interest for Raphael.

So a plausable way of introducing her. If Donnie is captured by the Kaang or EPF at some point, maybe he encounters a female lizard mutant. The female lizard says she was seperated from her husbend and daughter when she was captured by the Kraang years ago.

Then when Donnie is rescued the lizard mutant notices April and is shocked. At first everyone is suprised and concerned about how this unknown mutant knows April until Lizard Lady says "It's been ten years my daughter."

[victory_angel]

We have had reactions from April in reguards to a supposed death or near death of Casey and Donnie.

Casey is supposedly killed when he is swallowed by that Kraang worm in Wormquake. April's reaction to it is that she tearfully clings to Donnie and is mopey about her lost friend. And when it turns out Casey is alive and is rescued from the worms belly she happily hugs him.

Donnie has a near death experience in the episode "In Dreams". Donnie is on that convayer belt headed towards a furnace. While in the real world the moment he is on the edge of death is the point where he stops breathing and essentually dies in April's arms. April starts to panic as she announces Donnie was no longer breathing. But when Donnie recovers she joyfully says "You're okay!" and kisses him on the cheek.

So perhaps there is a whole too episode mad dash for the Retromutagen. At the climax on the top of the Brooklyn bridge during the event the Turtles have the opertunity to cure Karai. Rocksteady then holds up Donnie by the neck. Tiger Claw theatens that if they don't hand over the retromutagen their brother will fall to his demise. Rahzar, Fishface, and Bebop are also there to capture Karai for the Shredder. Donnie manages to gasp out that Leo should worry about saving Karai.

Leo is torn because if they give the Retromutagen to Karai it would cost them Donatello, but if gives it to the Foot Clan, Donatello could be killed anyway and they would lose Karai as well.

Leo then pours the retromutagen on Karai supposedly rendering her human perminantly. Angered at this Rocksteady lets Donnie fall down to the bay below, Karai yells that he is a coward and transforms into a snake again as she jumps after Donnie she pulls him out of the water before he drowns. But the impact with the water and the chill of the bay could be deadly if something wasn't done soon.

Tiger Claw and the rest of the Foot Clan report their proceedings to the Shredder. Including the fact that Karai had been restored from her mutation, but some how retains the ability to shape shift to her mutant form. Shredder realizes that Stockman must have done something to the Snake Serum. Stockman insists he did it to Shredder's specifications...but then admits that a chemical was accidentally spilled into it. Shredder then tells Stockmen that he should fix it or else.

At the temperary lair, Raph and Mikey come in with Karai. Splinter is over joyed to see his daughter restored to human once more. Karai however informs Splinter their happy reunion is also met with tragedy. April gasps in horror as she sees Raph helping Leo bring up an unconcious Donatello. Leo looks up at her and says "April...I'm sorry."

Then the next episode has everyone back at the Farm House. April narrates in her journel that they had been there for the past few day. Their makeshift lair was no longer safe and given all that had happened they needed some time to get away from the city to recover and readjust to all thats happend before they continue the war to regain the city.

Karai is often by herself trying to sort out where she belongs. She is concerned with the fact the can still transform into Kiba. While she is more able to control her transformations and she still feels that her mutant self is another personality that she is constantly at war with.

Donnie regains conciousness and April breaks down in tears when he does. Donnie is concerned April says she's crying because she was worried she would lose him. Raph thinks she worried about losing him because it meant it would mean losing any chance of having her father returned. So he points out that Donnie did have a stash of retromutagen hidden so it wasn't like her father couldn't be restored. April then says that she as much as she wants her father restored, she couldn't bear losing Donnie in order for that to happen.

[ninja-zero]

I wonder if the Shredder will learn that Donnie has figured out a way to create retromutagen.

Perhaps like in TF: Prime - Beast Hunters, he orders his minions to kidnap Donnie and force him to work on the retromutagen to turn Karai back to normal. Yet Donnie refuses to tell him about April being the last piece to its puzzle.

That is... until eventually April reveals herself to be the last pieces and that her DNA is needed for it to work.

[kelligrafie]

I want the acid Karai spit on Raph to have lasting effects that cause him to wear an eye-patch.

I would've thought that if it was going to have an affect on his eyesight, it would've happened in the three months or so they were in the farm house.

I'm genuinely surprised they didn't make more of it.

But then again people have suggested it was a SAINW foreshadow.

Maybe we're just seeing foreshadowing everywhere though.

[victory_angel]

Donnie has the retromutagen ready and stashes it in the party wagon before he and his brothers head out to look for Karai. Unknown to them Bebop is able to see where they are hiding with his infered shades and the foot clan burst into the pizza shop forcing the Turtles and company to run for it scattering them across the city.

Everyone rushes around the city facing off against the Foot and the Kraang, and find Karai being captured by the EPF. Leo saves her and uses his T-Phone to inform his brothers that he has found Karai. He and Karai get in the party wagon and find other turtles, Splinter, April, and Casey all the while trying to evade the Foot, the Kraang, and Agent Bishop.

In the mean time, Donnie has had to fend for himself against the Kraang and the Foot. He is able to hold his own for a time but is over powered by the hench mutants and Foot Bots. Tiger Claw tells the Shredder they had captured Donatello, they had searched him but he doesn't have the Retromutagen. They are taking efforts in making him tell them where it is when he notices a message on Donnie's T-Phone saying Karai has been found.

Mikey discovers where Donnie hid the retromutagen and everyone wonders if they shoulds cure Karai. April points out that Donnie is still out there. Leo also has a bad feeling about Donnie's absence and Mikey's said he tried contacting Donnie and he didn't answer.

A phone call comes in and it's from the Shredder demanding an exchange, Karai and the Retromutagen for their brother. They all know it's a trap but know they don't have much of a choice.

Karai's sanity starts to go and knowing they are running out of time they meet up. Shedder is standing with a sevearly battered Dontello as his captive. He orders the Leonardo and his family to hand over the Retromutagen and Karai to Tiger Claw or else he would let Donatello fall to his death. Donnie tells Leo to just save Karai which earns him a punch in the face by Rocksteady.

Leo is torn about this and doesn't like the choices he has, which is saving Karai at the cost of his brother, or losing both his brother and Karai as well as any chance to save the city. Leo chooses the former and Donnie is sent falling. Everyone is enraged at this and Karai calls the Shredder out as a coward, her anger enabling her to return into a mutant snake again and attacks along with Splinter, Raph, and Leo are overwelmed. Particularly when the Kraang appear. Everyone rushes to the Party Wagon and drives off.

Knowing Donnie needs a place where he can safely recover which they won't find in the city. The turtles find themselves forced to return to the farm house so they can regroup and plan out how they were to save the city.

[Tarris Vaal]

Would that work better to split the party? Have Donnie go back to the farmhouse with maybe Mikey and Splinter, whilst Leo, Raph, April and Casey continue the good fight in NY?

Would potentially allow room for Renet to appear at the farmhouse and meet Mikey, Donnie to have somewhere to actually build a blimp without squeezing it into a pizza shop, and allow room enough for April to show concern for Donnie without being in the same place as him (or because she's not in the same place as him)

[victory_angel]

Would that work better to split the party? Have Donnie go back to the farmhouse with maybe Mikey and Splinter, whilst Leo, Raph, April and Casey continue the good fight in NY?

Would potentially allow room for Renet to appear at the farmhouse and meet Mikey, Donnie to have somewhere to actually build a blimp without squeezing it into a pizza shop, and allow room enough for April to show concern for Donnie without being in the same place as him (or because she's not in the same place as him)

With some of his inventions such as the Turtle Mech and the T-Sub he left them in various non-disctript parts of the sewers when they weren't in use or were being built. So Donnie would have another place to put the Turtle Blimp besides the pizza shop.


Also we were schedualed to have 13 episodes at the farm house this season. We've had 8-9 episodes so far so that leaves 4-5 more to go. The only reason they would return to the farm house is if someone in their party was seriously injured and they could actually use the time away to formulate a new plan of attack.

[Tarris Vaal]

Now that's interesting - I hadn't realised we were still due some episodes in Northampton! Certainly opens up some possibilities :)

Might be interesting if the turtles are forced to split up, leaving say Donnie and Mikey at the farmhouse, whilst the others continue to try and find and rescue Karai from Shredder. As they do, the EPF makes its move, tracking down the farmhouse and attacking in order to capture Donatello for themselves. Mikey would then be forced to defend his brother from the EPF - perhaps giving us a return of the Chimera as Mikey uses it to distract the EPF soldiers enough to allow their escape.

April senses something is dangerously wrong and that Donnie and Mikey are in serious danger. The others dismiss her concerns (maybe shadowing the same way Mikey is normally ignored when he says these things), and she instead convinces Casey to take her and sneak off with the party wagon.

Casey and April get captured by the EPF, and Casey discovers some relation of his own family to them (I still like the idea of Agent Bishop turning out to be one of his parents - especially his mother, just for a nice change of pace for female characters in the show and an excuse to have Sigourney Weaver involved ;) )

Bishop essentially forces Donatello to surrender himself in exchange for April's freedom. Casey finds himself torn between his friends and his family, as Bishop explains this is all for the greater good. Bishop goes back on his/her word almost immediately and keeps both April and Donatello in custody, whilst Mikey escapes to try and get back to NY to warn Leo/Raph what's happened.

[victory_angel]

Now that's interesting - I hadn't realised we were still due some episodes in Northampton! Certainly opens up some possibilities :)

Might be interesting if the turtles are forced to split up, leaving say Donnie and Mikey at the farmhouse, whilst the others continue to try and find and rescue Karai from Shredder. As they do, the EPF makes its move, tracking down the farmhouse and attacking in order to capture Donatello for themselves. Mikey would then be forced to defend his brother from the EPF - perhaps giving us a return of the Chimera as Mikey uses it to distract the EPF soldiers enough to allow their escape.

April senses something is dangerously wrong and that Donnie and Mikey are in serious danger. The others dismiss her concerns (maybe shadowing the same way Mikey is normally ignored when he says these things), and she instead convinces Casey to take her and sneak off with the party wagon.

Casey and April get captured by the EPF, and Casey discovers some relation of his own family to them (I still like the idea of Agent Bishop turning out to be one of his parents - especially his mother, just for a nice change of pace for female characters in the show and an excuse to have Sigourney Weaver involved ;) )

Bishop essentially forces Donatello to surrender himself in exchange for April's freedom. Casey finds himself torn between his friends and his family, as Bishop explains this is all for the greater good. Bishop goes back on his/her word almost immediately and keeps both April and Donatello in custody, whilst Mikey escapes to try and get back to NY to warn Leo/Raph what's happened.

We know Casey's father and sister have disappeared, and Casey assumes they have been mutated by the Kraang. But that seems too easy to me. I like the idea of Agent Bishop being a family member of Casey. Since he is a government agent it is possible Agent John Bishop could be a field name. This branch of the military is so secretive no one in Bishop's family can learn of it. So he has a second mild mannered job as a front for it while he's keeping tabs on the Kraang.

For example, a Bishop is the name of a chess piece. The Bishop pieces can only move diagnally. And the bishops can be black or white depending on the on what wing of the board they are on. They also can capture an opposing peice by occupying the space where an enemy sits.

So perhaps Bishop uses Chess Movies and Pieces as code names for things. Such as "Knight takes Pawn" As code for his soldiers to capture one of the Turtles or a mutant.

pawns-Turtles, mutants,
Knights-Soldiers
Rook (Castle)-Base of operation
King-President, Enemy leader male
Queen-First Lady, Enemy leader female

What would be even cooler is if one of the people working for Bishop was a man known as Dirk Savage which would bring back another OT character, but could make him more of a villain.

[victory_angel]

If you haven't read Bitsy83's post on the love triangle and how it would be resolved please go here. http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1419974&postcount=163


I found her view of the Leo/Raph fight from the 2007 movie interesting and plausible. But I don't see Casey being that much of a jerk towards Donnie. If April chose him...even if it's by assumption Casey wouldn't rub it in Donnie's face that he was with April.

However since we didn't see any heart to hearts between Leo and Donnie about the argument they had during the invasion. Perhaps that is some what unresolved tension between them.

So after Donnie creates the Retromutagen, Leo expresses that he want to cure Karai as soon as possible. Before they leave Splinter warns his sons that things are more dangerous then they once were, and if their enemies learn about the retromutagen they would stop at nothing to acquire it for themselves.

Elsewhere Stockman's newest batch of retromutagen fails, which angers Shredder. In an effort to prolong his life, Stockman blurts out one of the Turtles was able to make retromutagen. He then explains that after he had mutated into a fly he escaped and found one of Turtles had retromutagen.

Tiger Claw says that it was likely Donatello since he's viewed as being the smart one of the Turtles. Fishface volunteers to go obtain the retromutagen. Rahzar also expresses that Donatello is a weaker fighter then the rest of his brothers and won't require much effort to capture. Shredder however says that Tiger Claw would be the one who captures the Turtle and the Retromutagen (should he have it).

Tiger Claw points out the boy is likely to resist. Rocksteady however says he has ways of forcing people to talk.


In the mean time everyone is traveling through the city. Leo lets Raph and Mikey through an area but then insists on surveying the area once more before letting Donnie through and even then he keeps a close guard. Donnie expresses irritation with Leo being overly protective. Leo reminds his brother that Splinter had said things were more dangerous and that their enemies would do anything to obtain the retromutagen.

Donnie however points out that didn't mean he had to treat him like he needed to be under constant protection. At that moment they are discovered by the Kraang, during the fight Leo doesn't allow Donnie to take on any of the droids. So when the battle was over Donnie gets really upset with Leo about this.

Leo insists that he was trying to make sure nothing happened to him. Donnie points out what Leo was meaning to say was that he was wanting to make sure nothing happened to the Retromutagen and his chances at curing Karai.
Donnie then pulls out the Retromutagen and shoves it at Leo saying that he should carry it if he is so concerned.

Leo sighs as he stores away the retromutagen and says that they would have a long talk about Donnie's attitude when their mission was over. When Donnie demands to know what Leo meant by that, Leo tells him that he should quit acting like he's something special just because he's smarter then everyone else. And if he payed attention to his ninjitsu lessons more then all the other distractions that he plagues himself with there wouldn't be any need for this conversation.

Things get heated from there and turns into an actual fight with weapons. Which concludes when Leo breaks Donnie's bo staff, pins him down and is about to stab Donatello with one of his swords. Raph and Mikey restrain him from doing so. Leo looks down angerly at his second brother, but as the anger begins to leave him when he notices tears welling up in Donatello's eyes. Leo has a memory flash of the two of them as children and he steps away in shock at what he had just done and what he had been about to do.

No longer pinned Donnie sits up a moment and runs off. Mikey tries to go after him, but Raph stops him and tells him to let Donnie have his space right then. Leo falls to his knees and picks up Donnie's broken bo-staff and says "What have I done?"

Donnie runs along the roof tops. When comes to a stop so he can center himself, he is found a group of Footbots and Tiger Claw. Donatello's first instinct was to go for his bo staff when he remembers that it had been broken. Donnie is able to fight hand to hand but is soon over powered by Tiger Claw.

Leo, Raph, and Mikey chase down Donnie and find him being picked up by Tiger Claw. The mutant tiger sends Footbots at the other three turtles to hold them back while Tiger Claw goes to the Shredder's lair.

Everyone returns back to the pizza shop, April notices Donnie isn't with them and asks what happened. Leo then comes up to Splinter and holds out the remains of Donnie's bo staff and says "I'm sorry Master Splinter, Donnie was captured by the Foot Clan...it's all my fault." Freeze frame of Splinter, April, and Casey looking shocked and horrified.

[Tiekarin]

I really like that idea! :)

[Tarris Vaal]

I honestly think this would work better without it breaking into a weaponized fight. Its not really in either of their characters to do so (its more Raph's thing really and he has it down to a fine art)

Leo sighs as he stores away the retromutagen and says that they would have a long talk about Donnie's attitude when their mission was over. When Donnie demands to know what Leo meant by that, Leo tells him that he should quit acting like he's something special just because he's smarter then everyone else. And if he payed attention to his ninjitsu lessons more then all the other distractions that he plagues himself with there wouldn't be any need for this conversation.

This would be a prime instance for Leo to bring up April, maybe claiming that Donnie has gotten only worse ever since his infatuation. Donnie would then sputter back that if anyone is infatuated its Leo's obsession over Karai.
Mikey or Raph would probably try to intervene at this point, causing both D/L to glare them down. The moments distraction is enough to break them from escalating and Donnie just hands Leo the retromutagen and storms off to calm down. As he goes Leo remarks 'Let her go Donnie. You never stood a chance.'
Donnie snaps back 'No more than you do' and leaves to have some time to cool off. Mikey and Raph stay with Leo, Raph laying into him for acting like a jerk - 'It's the first time I actually agree with how he feels!'
After a few moments of Leo trying to justify himself, they catch sight of Karai. Leo sends Mikey to find Donnie and catch them up.

Mikey finds Donnie looking at a picture of April. Donnie sighs and is finally about to delete it - 'She deserves better than me.'
Mikey is about to try and comfort him when Tigerclaw launches his attack.

Leo and Raph hear an explosion and turn back to try and find Mikey barely standing, Donnie's broken bo staff and the broken Tphone with April's pic about to be deleted. Mikey tells them what happened before collapsing. They rush back to the new lair to explain what happened and get Mikey to safety.

April notices Donnie's not with them and Leo explains, trying to blame it on Donnie's attitude. Raph speaks up for Donnie, again accusing Leo of being obsessed to find Karai and willing to leave the rest of them behind to do it. Leo snaps that if Donnie hadn't been so obsessed with April in the first place he would never have been captured and that she's been nothing but a bad influence on him. He snaps out of it when he realises he said this in front of her and even Raph seems worried how she'll react.

April says he is right - in that wonderful way only women can that somehow actually blames him. It is her fault. And she'll fix it. She storms out as Casey pursues and as Splinter arrives to ask what is going on.

April and Casey get only a short distance before the EPF take them both in.



phew, that kind of ran away from me there :)

Anyway, I also liked the idea of Bitsy's post of Casey kissing April suddenly and Donnie walking in at the wrong moment. That part especially I could really see working to move the triangle along and back into a smooth part of the overall storyline.

[victory_angel]

Want to hop in on that pact that Bitsy and I have going on?

[Tarris Vaal]

Lol! I would be lying if I said I haven't been trying to convince my wife to let me try to cook pizza gyoza ;) If we're right I'll actually give it a go

[Amaranthus]

Because after 2 seasons, we still can't get enough of Donnie and April.
It's not realistic for Donnie to still be angry about April.

[Tarris Vaal]

It's not realistic for Donnie to still be angry about April.

Maybe not, but I think its fair that he would still get annoyed about being teased, taunted or confronted over it - to what degree is debatable to be fair though :)


Because after 2 seasons, we still can't get enough of Donnie and April.

Like it or not, its a driving force for Donnie's character development in this series. There are other areas of course, but this has been the main one throughout.

Though maybe we should look at some of the others for a change :)

[victory_angel]

Lol! I would be lying if I said I haven't been trying to convince my wife to let me try to cook pizza gyoza ;) If we're right I'll actually give it a go

I know pulling weapons was a bit out of character for them I agree. But then again Donnie and Leo arguing in any form is also of sorts out of character.

I don't deny that that these two have had their disagreements, but it is unusual to have a full in their face arguement about something. And since Donnie in this incarnation has a temper that is comparable to Raph, it would make sense for weapons to be drawn.

Leo and Donnie both have feelings for the girls in question.

Donnie likes April because it's essentually love at first sight with him. He doesn't know anything about her, but the moment he sees her he's automatically head over heels.

I have pointed this out before, but in asian folklore there is a concept known as the Red thread of destiny. This concept has been used occasionally in anime and manga such inu yasha, yu yu hakusho, tenchi Muyo, and such.

In the folk lore and unbreakable invisible red string binds two people who are destined to encounter one another regardless of time, space, or circumstance. While the Turtles themselves are not actually Japanese they are sort of raised as though they were Japanese American boys.

While I don't think the writers have thought enough ahead for this concept, though they don't deny that there is some anime influence with this show.

And despite the fact he barely knows her Donnie feels drawn to her. Even Splinter is able to sense that there is something deeper there as early as the first episode of the series.

Leo on the other hand I don't know if it was actual love. I mean yeah he had feelings for her, but I think it's more like he recognizes something familiar about her and he feels there is goodness in her and he desires to save her from herself. Which becomes even more apparent when it's revealed that Karai is Splinters daughter because he wants to return her to where he feels she truely belongs.

[Bitsy83]

Lol! I would be lying if I said I haven't been trying to convince my wife to let me try to cook pizza gyoza ;) If we're right I'll actually give it a go

Oh, join in. And it's not like your prediction has to be 100% accurate, but if one of our things comes true, then we reward our creativity to be on the same level as the writers. So far, our pact consists of:

--Donnie being targeted by Shredder.

--Donnie being kidnapped by Shredder.

--Donnie having a fight over a character about April

--Bishop having some connection to a character.

--April's powers going all ballistic a la Phoenix from X-Men.

(I'm pretty sure that's right; Victory, you can adjust this if need be.)

I was thinking about what Tarris mentioned about Donnie looking at a picture of April on his phone and saying she deserves better. This got me thinking of ANOTHER movie ref they could do aside from the 2007 one. How about the Raph rooftop fight scene from the 1990 movie instead?:

So, let's go back to my previous prediction where Casey and April are talking and April said how she's tired of mutants, too, then Casey kisses her. As before, Donnie only comes in near the end and hears the part where April made the statement and Casey kisses her, he immediately assumes wants to be with Casey. Heartbroken and numb, Donnie runs off to be alone, of course walking off in time to miss April kicking Casey in the groin, yelling at him for doing that.

Meanwhile, Donnie is blocks from the pizzeria (or wherever the hideout would be at this point, since I saw an episode called "Mojo Dojo,") and is looking through his photos of April on his phone. He's not CRYING, but he is getting a little misty eyed, but he's saying things like "What did you expect, Donnie? Did you honestly think she would...." So, he starts to delete picture after picture until he comes to the last one of April and Donnie having a selfie together. He stays on this one the longest, but we see five or six Footbots sneaking up behind him.

Cut back to the Pizzaria where April is looking around for Donnie. She goes to Leo and asks where Donnie is, then (like the movie) it cuts to Donnie being attacked by Foot Bots. Similar to the movie ninjas throwing Raph's sais away, one of them crushes Donnie's phone so he's unable to call the Turtles for help.

At first, Donnie is doing well on his own and even goes "So, how many of you goons did Shredder send out?" More Foot Bots show up and Donnie's like "Good answer....good answer." (I know that's not the exact quote, but it'd be a cute nod). Like the scene, it'd go back and forth between April and the Turtles talking while Donnie is fighting and losing the battle. Eventually, he's beaten and Tiger Claw stands over him, calling Shredder "Master....we got him."

(I got more, but I need to work REALLY early tomorrow, so if I remember I'll post more).

I would really just like to see them reference that scene. It was one of my favorites in the '90, especially the way they went back and forth between the fight and the others.

[JTH]

The only thing I would potentially add to this is have the Kraang factor into the scenario as well. I always found it odd, that even as of the most recent episode, Donatello is still the only turtle the Kraang know and have referred to by name. (Operation: Breakout)

I thought that would eventually lead to something, but now it doesn't seem the case now. But that episode and that line near the end of that episode, made it clear that the Kraang became aware that Donatello had the knowledge to prevent their ultimate objective or could save the city from all damages the Kraang could do one day. So they would target him at some point to prevent any hope mankind has to stop them from taking over Earth. So at some point when it becomes clear the Kraang have no intention of living up to their end of the deal of curing Karai, that Shredder would then learn of Donatello's knowledge of retromutagen and that when the Kraang will learn of it as well and soon, they will try to eliminate him.

So to me that would have added a very interesting agenda, to where Donnie got captured by Tiger Claw and company, but them claiming to the other turtles that they have no intention or desire to harm their brother, but rather are trying to protect him because of the Kraang's motive to terminate him and thus losing any chance to save Shredder's "cub" (Karai). This could actually lead to how Shredder and the Kraang break off their deal with one another if Shredder's henchmen start fighting The Kraang to protect Donatello so they themselves can capture him, while the Turtles are trying to stop all parties.

[victory_angel]

Bitsy-Tarris-Victory pact.

Pact rules- Treat ourselves to Pizza, Ice Cream, or something special (doesn't need to be food related.) as a celebration if any theories turn out to be reality. Picture or video of said celebratory item will be posted up.

Victory_Angel's Theories

--Donnie sacrificing himself for the safety of his family and/or April.

--April revealed to be a neutrino.

--Karai doused with completer retromutagen so she can maintain her human form, but still able to transform into a mutant snake.

--Donnie forced to kill Mutagen man in some fashion. Either by violent reaction with retromutagen or by being forced to kill him to keep him from harming April and/or his family, and/or himself.

--Raph second mutated, adopted into the foot and renamed Tokka. Attacks Donnie and/or Mikey as a show of loyalty to the Shredder. reveals Donnie can make Retromutagen.

--Should 1987 Turtles meet 2012, one of the 1987 Turtles gives a nod to Turtles forever by mentioning they have encountered other versions of themselves before.

--Donnie is revealed to be a pacifist, he steps away from being a ninja while he sorts out who he is as a ninja.

--Mona Lisa appears as April's mother.

--Ninjara gets her first Televised appearance ever.

--H.A.V.O.C makes an appearance

--Another more heated argument between Leo and Donnie.

--Kurtzman reveals himself as an Utrom or Fugatoid

--Should Donnie be captured by the Foot Clan, I can see him trying to understand Tiger Claw as his enemy.

--Donnie supposed death experience.

--At least one of the turtles is revealed to be not a true born sibling/ half sibling of the other three. (Will occur with Bishop as he is twisted enough to do something like that.)

--Donnie has emotional breakdown

--Situation where all the turtles are scattered across the city.

--Raph put under mind control device

--Donnie put under a mind control device but resists it. April uses her psychic powers with a boost from Splinter and/or Leo and able to connect to Donnie's mind and short out the device.

--Same as it never was plot in which Donnie is sent to the future. We don't see said future in itself until Donnie relays what he had experienced later.

--April sacrifices herself to save Donnie or the Turtles and Casey.

--April uses her powers to try and heal Karai's mind.

Bitsy83's Theories

--Dimension travel for the turtles

--Meet up with the 1987 turtles and the 2012 turtles.

--April's powers going all ballistic a la Phoenix from X-Men.

--Good Genes plot involving Mikey.


Tarris's Theories

--Donnie becomes human for an episode or two

--Same as it never was plot involving Mikey.

--Slash joins group briefly

--Villain's perspective episode

--Mike has an episode where he wants to set up a day for Donnie and April to be together

--Return of Bernie

--Following defeat of the Kraang, April's psychic powers go dormant.



Collaborated Theories-Theories that at least two of us share in common

--Donnie being targeted by Shredder.

--Donnie targeted by the Kraang.

--Turtles being targeted by EPF

--Donnie being kidnapped/Captured/tortured by Shredder.

--Donnie having a fight over a character about April

--Bishop having some connection or relation to a character.

--Tiger Claw or Fishface leaves the Foot Clan.

--Donnie/April/Casey triangle begins to noticeably resemble the Hamato Yoshi/Tang Shen/Oroku Saki triangle.

--Karai as an anti-hero

These are the theories I have compiled so far.

[Tarris Vaal]

You know I was sure we had more than that between us :)

Only a little thing - but I dont think we've seen the last of the crazy shop guy - I think that he will make an appearance briefly to help create a pocket dimension to trap the Kraang inside


Definitely will need to come up with some ideas for the others as well :)

[JTH]

How I would do this:

If Donnie was to get capture, I think it would be during the Battle For New York 2 parter (It will be interesting to see what the cliffhanger for part 1 is)

I would have Donnie give April a letter that he wants her to read regarding where he now stands with her, being she didn't allow him to come forth during The Invasion, but he tells her not to read it there. Only read when you feel the time is right.

When April & Casey are told to be left behind again, is when Donnie gets captured by the Foot. April gets upset at Leo for always keeping them behind and that with them, they could have helped prevent Donnie's capture. Then she remembers the letter Donnie gave her, feeling now is as good a time as ever, she decides to read it with everyone there.

(While you hear her read, clips would run with Tiger Claw, Rahzar, & company beating up Donatello while he is defenseless)

______________________________________
Dear April,

I've wanted to tell you this for a while now, but the fact you are reading this means you've decided the time was right. So I'm just going to tell you once and for all.

I like you April, I really do...but I have to face the fact that you will never see me for what I hope you will. I have to face the fact that all I have ever done is put your life in danger...that's why I told Leo to make sure you wouldn't come with us on our missions once in the city. I didn't want you to get hurt.

I hope you understand why I'm doing this, I've realized the most important thing is for you to be happy, but if you never want to talk to me again...I understand that too. I hope we can still be friends.

Always remember, be strong April.

Your friend,
"Donnie"

PS: Tell Casey it's okay.
_______________________________________

[Tarris Vaal]

That works very well I think :)

If Donnie were to be captured during that, I'd want to have her reading that interspersed with clips of Donnie being beaten senseless by Tigerclaw + friends, and ending with her reading the last line whilst we see him being dragged away in the rain, possibly dropping a broken bo or - as we mentioned before - a broken Tphone with a cracked photo of April on it.

Cinematically I think it would make for a cool sequence :)

[ninja-zero]

How about an episode from a few parts where Donnie gets captured and later the final battle where Karai is cured and the Shredder ends up mutated as Super Shredder!?

[Bitsy83]

How I would do this:

If Donnie was to get capture, I think it would be during the Battle For New York 2 parter (It will be interesting to see what the cliffhanger for part 1 is)

I would have Donnie give April a letter that he wants her to read regarding where he now stands with her, being she didn't allow him to come forth during The Invasion, but he tells her not to read it there. Only read when you feel the time is right.

When April & Casey are told to be left behind again, is when Donnie gets captured by the Foot. April gets upset at Leo for always keeping them behind and that with them, they could have helped prevent Donnie's capture. Then she remembers the letter Donnie gave her, feeling now is as good a time as ever, she decides to read it with everyone there.

(While you hear her read, clips would run with Tiger Claw, Rahzar, & company beating up Donatello while he is defenseless)

______________________________________
Dear April,

I've wanted to tell you this for a while now, but the fact you are reading this means you've decided the time was right. So I'm just going to tell you once and for all.

I like you April, I really do...but I have to face the fact that you will never see me for what I hope you will. I have to face the fact that all I have ever done is put your life in danger...that's why I told Leo to make sure you wouldn't come with us on our missions once in the city. I didn't want you to get hurt.

I hope you understand why I'm doing this, I've realized the most important thing is for you to be happy, but if you never want to talk to me again...I understand that too. I hope we can still be friends.

Always remember, be strong April.

Your friend,
"Donnie"

PS: Tell Casey it's okay.
_______________________________________

OH, SURE! Just punch my heart right in the face, why don't you?!?! :tlol:

Seriously, though, that'd be so heartbreakingly sweet. To expect there to be some sort of love letter to April, only to have it be a "letting go" letter instead. And to have had Leo taking the fall for Donnie about April not going on missions makes a LOT of sense, especially since Leo and April have that bond from "Eyes of the Chimera." It's been pissing off a lot of fans on Tumblr, so to have an explanation would be nice to settle it. Plus, I can see why Donnie would want April to stay behind since she's still being hunted by the Kraang and the Kraang have pretty much invested the entire city. It'd be like a lamb walking into a fox den. And it would HOPEFULLY either end the triangle or at least let April choose her guy, but putting the romance on hold until the Kraang problem is dealt with.

How about an episode from a few parts where Donnie gets captured and later the final battle where Karai is cured and the Shredder ends up mutated as Super Shredder!?

You know, I was going to say how this would be like the Ultrom-Shredder from 2k3 (which I wasn't super fond of...), but that would be kind of neat. Let's just hope it lasts longer than 30-seconds this time and he's not crushed by a collapsing wooden dock. (Even as a kid, I felt so gypped when that happened! At least the new movie gave us a decent Shredder vs. Turtles fight.)

[ninja-zero]

You know, I was going to say how this would be like the Ultrom-Shredder from 2k3 (which I wasn't super fond of...), but that would be kind of neat. Let's just hope it lasts longer than 30-seconds this time and he's not crushed by a collapsing wooden dock. (Even as a kid, I felt so gypped when that happened! At least the new movie gave us a decent Shredder vs. Turtles fight.)

Here's the thing...

- Donnie is captured by the Foot forced to help them create the retromutagen so that Shredder can save Karai.

- Behind Shredder's back, Stockman, Rocksteady & Bebop secretly team-up to create something to destroy Shredder. Like when Stockman made himself a cyborg in the 2003 version. They want revenge on Shredder for turning them into mutants for failure and crossing his path.

- During the fight against Shredder, he falls into the mutagen (some animal DNA fell into the ooze) turning himself into a Super Shredder similar to a dragon (almost like the Dragon Lord from NT: Next Mutation). There won't be any wooden docks this time.

[victory_angel]

How I would do this:

If Donnie was to get capture, I think it would be during the Battle For New York 2 parter (It will be interesting to see what the cliffhanger for part 1 is)

I would have Donnie give April a letter that he wants her to read regarding where he now stands with her, being she didn't allow him to come forth during The Invasion, but he tells her not to read it there. Only read when you feel the time is right.

When April & Casey are told to be left behind again, is when Donnie gets captured by the Foot. April gets upset at Leo for always keeping them behind and that with them, they could have helped prevent Donnie's capture. Then she remembers the letter Donnie gave her, feeling now is as good a time as ever, she decides to read it with everyone there.

(While you hear her read, clips would run with Tiger Claw, Rahzar, & company beating up Donatello while he is defenseless)

______________________________________
Dear April,

I've wanted to tell you this for a while now, but the fact you are reading this means you've decided the time was right. So I'm just going to tell you once and for all.

I like you April, I really do...but I have to face the fact that you will never see me for what I hope you will. I have to face the fact that all I have ever done is put your life in danger...that's why I told Leo to make sure you wouldn't come with us on our missions once in the city. I didn't want you to get hurt.

I hope you understand why I'm doing this, I've realized the most important thing is for you to be happy, but if you never want to talk to me again...I understand that too. I hope we can still be friends.

Always remember, be strong April.

Your friend,
"Donnie"

PS: Tell Casey it's okay.
_______________________________________

Intersperse it with shots of April starting to cry and end it with tears running down her face.

I agree with the letting go letter after all they are at war so they have to avoid distractions and attachments.

Also Donnie I would believe is aware his life is already in danger since he can make Retromutagen. But April is the key to it and if it was revealed that her DNA can make retromutagen. Even though just a drop of her DNA is needed that won't matter to the Shredder or anyone else in the foot clan. After all she is just a human girl.

However I think Tiger Claw might have some thinking to do in regards to his vendetta against her. Because while he wants vengeance against her and Casey because they were the ones who were riding the worm that swallowed him. But if this girl is the key for humanities salvation and the turtle is able to create the very substance that could restore humanity and with all probability to use it to restore the mutated citizens of the city including Karai.

In Wormquake Donnie was the only Turtle that Tiger Claw never encountered. He wants vengeance on all the Turtles and even though Donnie wasn't apart of Tiger Claw's defeat he was involved in it simply because he was one of the Turtles.

Maybe Tiger Claw is involved in Donnie's capture, but not so involved in the subsequent torture finding it dishonorable. And through that he begins to question which side he should really be on.

[ninja-zero]

I have just the idea for a 3-part episode!

Shredder sees Raphael as the perfect ally due to his rage. So he asks the Kraang to mind control him turning into Dark Raph under Shredder's control. With Dark Raph as his ally, he gives out information to Shredder about Donnie creating retromutagen. For this he orders Tiger Claw to fetch him.

With Donnie captured, Shredder forces him to work with Stockman to create it. Though he is working on it, he hides the secret to the fact that April's DNA was the final ingredient needed to complete it.

Slash hears of Raph being controlled by Shredder and asks the turtles for his help in saving him. Donnie tries to escape but Raph and the others stand in his way and Shredder demands from Donnie about the retromutagen not perfect.

The turtles come out to save him. But as Donnie was about to die by Shredder's hands, April reveals herself to be the final ingredient needed. For this, Shredder orders his minions to bring April to the lab and extract every single essence of her DNA to complete the retromutagen. Donnie felt helpless.

Later on, the retromutagen was complete, yet April is still strapped. Donnie breaks Raph free of Shredder's influence while Splinter fights Shredder. And they save April.

The turtles use the retromutagen to save Karai while Shredder is too busy trying to kill Splinter.

....

[victory_angel]

I have just the idea for a 3-part episode!

Shredder sees Raphael as the perfect ally due to his rage. So he asks the Kraang to mind control him turning into Dark Raph under Shredder's control. With Dark Raph as his ally, he gives out information to Shredder about Donnie creating retromutagen. For this he orders Tiger Claw to fetch him.

With Donnie captured, Shredder forces him to work with Stockman to create it. Though he is working on it, he hides the secret to the fact that April's DNA was the final ingredient needed to complete it.

Slash hears of Raph being controlled by Shredder and asks the turtles for his help in saving him. Donnie tries to escape but Raph and the others stand in his way and Shredder demands from Donnie about the retromutagen not perfect.

The turtles come out to save him. But as Donnie was about to die by Shredder's hands, April reveals herself to be the final ingredient needed. For this, Shredder orders his minions to bring April to the lab and extract every single essence of her DNA to complete the retromutagen. Donnie felt helpless.

Later on, the retromutagen was complete, yet April is still strapped. Donnie breaks Raph free of Shredder's influence while Splinter fights Shredder. And they save April.

The turtles use the retromutagen to save Karai while Shredder is too busy trying to kill Splinter.

....

So how would Shredder learn the Retromutagen isn't perfect. Would he test it on fish face?

Maybe Raph reveals that Donnie's major weakness is April and as along as she is threatened he could be forced to do anything.

And perhaps when April is strapped to the machine to drain her DNA, Donnie is forced to watch.

[ninja-zero]

So how would Shredder learn the Retromutagen isn't perfect. Would he test it on fish face?

Maybe Raph reveals that Donnie's major weakness is April and as along as she is threatened he could be forced to do anything.

And perhaps when April is strapped to the machine to drain her DNA, Donnie is forced to watch.

Maybe test the retromutagen on some Kraang mutant.

In fact, this event will almost be like Ratchet from TF: Prime when he was forced by Megatron to create synethetic energon.

This episode needs to be the final episode of the season where Shredder is mutated to Super Shredder.

[victory_angel]

Since April's dad is named Kirby maybe the Apritello dream appears to end with a nod to the Donatello one shot from the mirage.

In the original one shot, Donnie meets a man April keeps as a tenant named Kirby (based of Jack Kirby) who has a crystal that can make drawings come to life but vanish after a few moments. The only thing that didn't vanish was a dimensional portal. The two investigate whats beyond the portal and discover that it is a world full of Kirby's drawings. When they are leaving said world at the end they find the portal shrinking Kirby pushes Donnie through, but when Donnie goes to pull Kirby through after him. The portal has shrunk away to nothing.


So maybe Kirby is unsure about the Turtle being a presence in his daughters life because it seems every time she's with them she's in danger. There is one plot where Kirby follows them into Dimension X to help prevent his daughter from being targeted by the Kaang ever again.

Donnie has to rig the portals so the Kraang remaining on Earth would no longer be able to go to Dimension X nor will the ones in Dimension X be able to send supplies to the Kraang trapped on Earth.

With the only portal left for Earth closing the others make it through but there is only time for one more person to pass through. Donnie encourages Kirby to go through as April needs him. Kirby however pushes Donnie through and tells April he loves her and waves good bye as the portal closes.

April is devastated by the loss of her father. And Donnie is beside himself about it because he knows he has failed April in the worst possible way. Casey asks Donnie if anything could be done about rescuing April's father. Donnie says there is nothing he can do. The portals to Dimension X are closed and even if he could reopen them, time passes differently in Dimention X so to Kirby it could be years or decades before they were able to get him back.

[Amaranthus]

Since April's dad is named Kirby maybe the Apritello dream appears to end with a nod to the Donatello one shot from the mirage.

In the original one shot, Donnie meets a man April keeps as a tenant named Kirby (based of Jack Kirby) who has a crystal that can make drawings come to life but vanish after a few moments. The only thing that didn't vanish was a dimensional portal. The two investigate whats beyond the portal and discover that it is a world full of Kirby's drawings. When they are leaving said world at the end they find the portal shrinking Kirby pushes Donnie through, but when Donnie goes to pull Kirby through after him. The portal has shrunk away to nothing.


So maybe Kirby is unsure about the Turtle being a presence in his daughters life because it seems every time she's with them she's in danger. There is one plot where Kirby follows them into Dimension X to help prevent his daughter from being targeted by the Kaang ever again.

Donnie has to rig the portals so the Kraang remaining on Earth would no longer be able to go to Dimension X nor will the ones in Dimension X be able to send supplies to the Kraang trapped on Earth.

With the only portal left for Earth closing the others make it through but there is only time for one more person to pass through. Donnie encourages Kirby to go through as April needs him. Kirby however pushes Donnie through and tells April he loves her and waves good bye as the portal closes.

April is devastated by the loss of her father. And Donnie is beside himself about it because he knows he has failed April in the worst possible way. Casey asks Donnie if anything could be done about rescuing April's father. Donnie says there is nothing he can do. The portals to Dimension X are closed and even if he could reopen them, time passes differently in Dimention X so to Kirby it could be years or decades before they were able to get him back.

I remember the only episode I ever saw from TMNT 2003 when I was a kid involving Kirby and those living drawings.
Such a sad ending. I'd definitely cry if they put that in the 2012 series.
Dem feels.

[Tarris Vaal]

Since April's dad is named Kirby maybe the Apritello dream appears to end with a nod to the Donatello one shot from the mirage.

In the original one shot, Donnie meets a man April keeps as a tenant named Kirby (based of Jack Kirby) who has a crystal that can make drawings come to life but vanish after a few moments. The only thing that didn't vanish was a dimensional portal. The two investigate whats beyond the portal and discover that it is a world full of Kirby's drawings. When they are leaving said world at the end they find the portal shrinking Kirby pushes Donnie through, but when Donnie goes to pull Kirby through after him. The portal has shrunk away to nothing.


So maybe Kirby is unsure about the Turtle being a presence in his daughters life because it seems every time she's with them she's in danger. There is one plot where Kirby follows them into Dimension X to help prevent his daughter from being targeted by the Kaang ever again.

Donnie has to rig the portals so the Kraang remaining on Earth would no longer be able to go to Dimension X nor will the ones in Dimension X be able to send supplies to the Kraang trapped on Earth.

With the only portal left for Earth closing the others make it through but there is only time for one more person to pass through. Donnie encourages Kirby to go through as April needs him. Kirby however pushes Donnie through and tells April he loves her and waves good bye as the portal closes.

April is devastated by the loss of her father. And Donnie is beside himself about it because he knows he has failed April in the worst possible way. Casey asks Donnie if anything could be done about rescuing April's father. Donnie says there is nothing he can do. The portals to Dimension X are closed and even if he could reopen them, time passes differently in Dimention X so to Kirby it could be years or decades before they were able to get him back.

Am reminded of Dr who....


But would be cool :)

Been trying to come up with ideas around the other turtles:


I'm sure I've mentioned it before but I thought it would be cool to have a SAINW style episode - only with Mikey rather than Donatello.

In theory, we would have an episode where a mysterious woman appears in Mikey's dreams, drawing him into the sewers. She appears in the flesh, revealing herself as Renet. She explains that she hasn't much time and that although Mikey doesn't know her yet, she knows him very well and he will meet her again in the future. Mikey doesn't understand and she kisses his forehead and tries to explain that she can only show him the course the future will take, but he must do all he can to stop it from happening.

He literally then wakes up as though he was dreaming, only to discover he is about 3 years into the future. Leo and Donatello find him and are astonished to find him just walking out of his room as though nothing had happened.

Mikey learns that he vanished 3 years prior with no warning. In the time since, Shredder created a mutant army which overran the EPF and much of the world. Leo has become bitter and cold, missing his left eye from a fight he doesn't want to talk about. Raph is nowhere to be seen, and Donatello is a shell (pun intended) of himself following the death of April (who died protecting him, for which he has never forgiven himself). Casey is also around but has become world weary and cynical and very cold towards Donnie (blaming him for April). Splinter died long before and they've been leading a resistance ever since.

As Mikey catches up on events with Donnie he realises there is the photo of Donnie and April on the swing still in his lab, albeit the glass is cracked. Donnie is very protective of it. Donnie explains that he thinks he can get Mikey back to his own time to warn them of what's coming, but even he seems evasive when Mikey asks about Raph.

In the end, Raph leads upgraded footbots in a direct assault on the lair. We learn that Leo lost his eye to Raph when Raph joined with the Shredder. Donnie tries to tell Mikey what happened, but Mikey is sent hurtling back in time to the present before he can explain fully.

Mikey wakes up and rushes to find everyone is ok - hugs all round - as he does so he accidentally knocks into Donnie's desk and cracks the glass of the photo of April on the swing.


My thoughts were - this could lead to Mikey 'growing up' as he realises its his role to keep his brothers from falling down paths that shadow Shredder. As time goes on, Leo's blind stubborn determination starts to get the better of him and he becomes increasingly reckless. Mikey warns him his quest for vengeance for what Shredder has done is no better than Shredders vendetta against them.

Leo doesnt listen, and later loses an eye fighting Raph/Shredder (matching Shredder's own injury and getting him one step closer - which is the point where he starts to realise what he's doing)

In Donnie's case, Mikey sees that its his heart that could turn Donnie down the dark road - that his relationship with April mirrors Tang shen and Shredder. Donnie recognises this early on, and writes 'the letter' that JTH came up with (great idea).

In Raph's case its his anger that Mikey tries to dissuade him from, but as with most cases Raph and Leo simply don't listen to Mikey's advice.



In Mikey's case I'd also love to see Rahzar start to look for help to get away from Shredder, and he uses his old internet connection with Mikey to try and arrange a way to get out of the Foot. Mikey's natural affinity for monsters and his quickness to forgive would be interesting to contrast against his distrust of Bradford.


I also think Mikey is the most likely to be the one to try to reach Raph as and when Raph turns and joins the Foot. I can well imagine Mikey would be devastated and would do everything he could to help Raph come back to them, only to place himself in mortal danger - especially as Shredder would likely require Raph directly attack him to prove his loyalty.

I'll save the ideas for the others for later :)

[victory_angel]

Mikey misses Leatherhead and wishes he knew where he was. The other turtles remind him he supposedly was killed by the Shredder trying to protect Master Splinter, but Mikey doesn't want to believe it. After all when everyone else thought Splinter was gone he was the one who insisted that Splinter was alive. The other turtles and even April all tell Mikey that some things in life don't turn out the way you want them to.

Mikey storms out and says he's going to go look for Leatherhead. Casey joins him (after all we need a Casey and Mikey bonding episode.) since it's too dangerous to go anywhere alone.

The two of them get found an attacked by Kraang droids when a mutant gecko shows up and helps them. The mutant gecko is surprised to see another mutant reptile in the city. Mikey thanks the Gecko for his help and tells him that the two of them were looking for a friend of theirs a mutant Alligator named Leatherhead.

Mondo: Oh you mean the old timer...yeah I know where he is.

Mondo Gecko explains that he had been a gecko until the day of the mutagen fall. And ever since then until he came across the "Old Timer". The mutant gator was badly wounded but he helped him heal and recover. But they should be careful as he is still traumatized by his experience. Mikey makes nods to season 1 by commenting that his brother Donnie could tell him stories.

They arrive at the place where Leatherhead is. The first reaction is that they get is leatherhead sees the mask on Casey's face and attacks him thinking he's the Shredder. However Mikey and Mondo calm Leatherhead down.

[Tarris Vaal]

I was trying to think of a way that Raph might finally decide to switch sides and join the Shredder - I know its based loosely on the Dark Leo plot which involved amnesia and mental manipulation; and obviously a simple brainwash coercion (like the Kraang mind control device) would work, but I was hoping that it would be more of a choice on Raph's part rather than him being forced.

This has been mentioned a lot on the official info thread as well (especially recently) and there are some good ideas of how it could come about. For myself I think it would boil down to either a serious split with his brothers or some terrible guilt forcing him to turn to his enemies where he cant turn to his own family.

So, I was thinking that - if it were a rift - then we have a few options:

* His rivalry with Leo over leadership and control forcing him into a fight with Leo (as with the previous movie). Leo wins and Raph leaves in disgust.

* Leo's obsession with Karai causing him to make reckless decisions, which Raph calls him out on. When one of the others is hurt because of them Raph confronts Leo forcibly leading to an armed fight, possibly including Karai (perhaps because Raph can't bring himself to trust her - and it turns out he is actually right not to).

* Raph's heritage being called into question - perhaps by Bishop as previously discussed - marking him out as 'different' to the others.

* Raph finding a love interest of his own, pulling his attentions from the others and separating him from them. His own fire and passion cause him to detach himself from his brothers and self isolate far more than either Donnie or Leo do in their respective romantic pursuits. Raph's new girlfriend turns out to have connections of her own with the Foot and he swiftly finds himself in over his head, knowing she is using him to do wrong, but torn between his feelings for her and his brothers.


Personally I quite like another option - that his temper finally brings him to do something he truly regrets and he cant face his family. When he runs, the Foot offer him a place with them.
My favourite scenario for this possibility is that Raph once again confronts Fishface. However, previous events leading to the fight have brought Raph to boiling point.
Perhaps Fishface has also become suspected of betraying Shredder and the Foot has become increasingly dangerous for him. Fishface is given a chance to prove himself again and contacts the Turtles asking for their help. They are understandably suspicious but go along with it. Fishface however is largely legitimately trying to leave, but is being used by Tigerclaw and Shredder to lure the Turtles out, making it seem Fishface intended the deception all along.
Raph only gets wind of the impending trap and accuses Fishface of trying to betray them. Fishface genuinely knows nothing of it, and tries to reason with Raph as they fight.
The others are desperately trying to fend off the Foot ambush and become separated from Raph. Raph's fight gets ever more deadly and Fishface starts to realise Raph is now truly incensed. Despite one last attempt to reason with him, Raph downs him. As Fishface pleads for mercy, Raph gives none and finishes him off once and for all.
He finally breaks from his rage and realises he has just killed someone. Suddenly struck by the weight of what he's done he flees, unable to face his brothers or Splinter. The others search for him, but he doesn't want to talk to them and avoids them. As they search, Shredder personally makes an appearance and instead offers Raph an alternative; Join the Foot and take Fishface's place, giving him a chance to hone his rage and to follow the road he has started to take.

Seeing no other option, Raph agrees, even as Mikey watches desperately from the far rooftops as he tries to reach Raph as Rocksteady/Bebop beat him back. Mikey can only cry out as Raph disappears into the darkness, followed by Shredder.

[Metalwolf]

^^Oooh, that is a good one! :D

[Tarris Vaal]

Some ideas for Leo centric episodes:

* Leo is forced to cause serious injury to Karai when she goes berserk and attacks the others. Something which isn't necessarily life threatening or mortal but certainly leaves a permanent scar (removing a hand for instance). Looking at how that incident leaves him guilt ridden, trying to think where he could have stopped her without harming her.

* Leo given a chance to talk with Bishop about the facets of leadership - realising what kind of leader Bishop is and the sacrifices he is willing to make compared to Leo. Him trying to convince Leo that morality and honour are just burdens to be discarded when needed. Leo trying to prove he is better than that, only to Bishop's amusement when Bishop engineers a situation that puts Leo's sense of honour and morality at breaking point.

* A brotherly moment between Donatello and Leo - where both are feeling forlorn about the way love eludes them - leading to the discussion of what possible future can they hope to achieve. Where Donatello struggles to imagine any future where they could be happy, Leo is the one to give him hope that they can't know what the future holds and sometimes its more important to hold onto the present - though as Donatello leaves him, we see Leo is perhaps not as convinced by his own words as he gives the impression.

* An episode based around imagination and illusion, where Leo becomes the Captain of Space heroes and must lead the others (also taking roles from their favourite shows) to defeat a monster within the context of a massed crossover of the various tv shows they watch.

* Leo having a moment with April to out right tell her she's distracting Donatello and they need him focused. He tells her he's aware of the kiss at the farmhouse and is also aware that Donatello was about to move on from her. Saying he wants a straight answer, he asks her if she will leave him alone and let him go. She tells him she doesn't know how she feels anymore, and he responds with 'Then you need to find out.'

[victory_angel]

Rocksteady and Bebop want revenge against the Shredder for their mutations. But they soon learn one of the turtles has a means to cure their mutations. Knowing this is their opportunity they attack the Turtles and take Raph and Mikey as prisoner in exchange for the Retromutagen. And they have an hour to deliver the cure or else they would be dipped into mutagen and turned into worse freaks.

Leo and Donnie know a double cross would be made but they don't have much choice in the matter. Leo asks if there is a way to make them think they are given retromutagen with out it being retromutagen. Donnie says that April's DNA was used to stabilize the retromutagen and without that stability they would be in the same condition as Karai.
And they couldn't risk giving them something that would make them worse. Reluctantly they bring the retromutagen Rocksteady and Bebop.

But both of thugs fight over who gets to use it first (Each one just wanting the retromutagen for themselves.) While Leo gets Raph and Mikey out of their bindings. During the struggle for the Retromutagen, the vile goes flying out of their hands and is caught by the Shredder who his keeping tabs on his two hench-mutants.

He then orders Tiger Claw to fire upon the Turtles (in reality to eliminate Donatello so no more retromutagen can be made.) Raph sees Donnie about be hit a blast and pushes his brother out of the way only to be scored in the shoulder and fall into the mutagen. The others are in too much danger to stick around so they escape vowing to find Raph and restore him.

When everything has quieted down we find Raph has double mutated into Tokka.

[Tarris Vaal]

It occurs to me that there hasn't been an amnesia based episode yet.

Leo would have been a perfect fit for this kind of scenario - episode starts with the guys taking on some minor bad guy (spiderbytez for example) and Leo is knocked out after being thrown into a building or something. He hits his head and Karai picks him up while the others are distracted - and then realises he's lost his immediate memory and uses him to commit petty crimes, etc (things she considers 'fun').

Unfortunately, Karai is now past the point of doing something like that, and frustratingly any other character who may have done a similar thing would have Leo commit far worse crimes - thus tainting him more than one or two episodes could heal.

So...
I was wondering if this would work with any of the other characters;

Having Raph have an episode where he turns evil becomes of amnesia would only cheapen the Dark Raph arc as and when it comes around. I also think using amnesia as an excuse for the Dark Raph arc in the first place really loses a lot of potential and would seem a wasted opportunity on the shows part.

That said, rather than Raph going evil, perhaps if the amnesia would result in him becoming rather more pacifistic? Maybe Raph was a lot less aggressive in his early years and then became steadily more temper prone as he grew older? Maybe a reversion to an earlier state (possibly even using it as a way of explaining the crack in his shell) would show us where his character came from emotionally in the first place - and perhaps confront him with a character that would force him to make that choice to fight or flee all over again (maybe if Newtralizer made a return and threatened to kill the others).


Mikey is a lot harder, mainly because I can't imagine him ever really being anything other than what he is now (other than younger). Losing some memories isnt likely to change his personality much, though I like the idea that a blow to the head might cause his personality to shift to a more aggressive (even cruel or sadistic) stance briefly - just to showcase what Mikey could have become if circumstances had played differently. I can certainly imagine him having an inner turmoil between his 'good' self and a darker 'cruel' self fighting for control of his soul.

That said, it wouldnt really make sense in the context of an 'amnesia' premise.


Donatello is also tricky. A dark Donnie is likely to be closer to Baxter Stockman than to Shredder, so making him 'evil' seems unlikely simply because you couldnt do it properly over the course of just 1 episode. That said, its possible that in his youth Donatello was a lot more cocky and aggressive - he certainly has a strong temper at times - but he has a lot of control of it and its possible that in his youth he was much more like Raph is now. A blow to the head wiping much of his recent memory could revert his personality to being more like a younger cockier self. It would be interesting to see how April and the others would react if he became more overtly aggressive (being that he would probably be quite like Casey)

The other possibility is to have him completely forget April.
Imagine the episode opening with Splinter deciding that Donatello and April should spar in the training room. April - being April - wants to go all out, no holds barred. Donnie - trying to be chivalrous - is holding back. April gets annoyed at him for it and she whacks him hard, tripping him into a brick wall.

He wakes up a couple of minutes later concussed and with only scattered memories of the past couple of years. He sees April and Casey leaning over him and whilst initially struck by April again, he sees Casey and automatically assumes they are an item and that initial spark is immediately quenched. Rather than pursue her, he's now put her out of his mind as being anything more.

As April realises he's suffering memory loss and cant really remember her, she also realises that he is acting strangely around her. The others - except Mikey - seem to think its a good thing (especially Casey), but April finds that she is actually missing the old Donnie.

She confronts him about it (almost a reversal of their original roles if you like), and she even shows him the photo frame as proof. He explains that though he kinda likes her, but she's taken. She denies this vehemently, explaining Casey is just a friend. Donnie says he's a mutant turtle, why would she possibly want to be liked by him? She blurts out 'Because I like you!' before thinking. He goes silent. She goes red and walks out.

At this point the other three appear from their hiding places looking quite shocked and Raph is the one to tell him to go after her.


I know that is very AprilxDonnie arc as an episode idea, but it seemed at least one way to finally finish that part of the arc off!

[victory_angel]

We need a good flash back episode. An episode where the Turtles lives as children are explained.

We are getting the origin of the crack in Raph's shell as one story that we are getting. Some of the following would also be good.

-Raph finding Spike.-Maybe good for an episode where Slash returns or Slash demutates.

-Weapons origin.-In most other versions we've seen the turtles already with their set weapons and they have been comfortable with them. The only incarnation with a weapons origin, was the Michael Bay turtles movie and that was with Leonardo only.

However Donnie's actions in metal head suggest that the Bo Staff wasn't his first choice of weapon. And also when he gets Raph's sai in Pulverizer Returns, there is a point where he is holding one of the Sai and we are given a distinct impression that he is not all that comfortable with the weapon itself.

So how I see that play out is Leo is called into the Dojo for his weapon, then Raph, then Mikey. Splinter brings in Donnie last. Much like April, Donnie tries several different weapons but none of them work. Splinter then says "Maybe the problem is that you are looking at the wrong sort of weapon." So he brings out a bo staff. Unlike April who sees the war fan and automatically knows that one is hers. Donnie is a little dubious about using a weapon that is essentially a giant stick. But he tries it out and that weapon is the one that chooses him.

Raph, Mikey, (And Leo to a lesser extent) tease and laugh at him about how his weapon is just giant stick. Later while Donnie is sitting with his new weapon, Splinter appears to Donatello. Donnie says he doesn't understand why the bo staff chose him. Splinter tells him that weapon chose him for a reason. But that reason has to be something he needs to discover on his own.

[Tarris Vaal]

Thats a nice idea :) I can well imagine Splinter saying something like that

What if the bo staff wasnt his first choice though? What if there was something else that he choose first, but then harmed Raph during a sparring session (causing the scar) and Donnie choose to give that weapon up because of what happened and replaced it with the bo?

[victory_angel]

Thats a nice idea :) I can well imagine Splinter saying something like that

What if the bo staff wasnt his first choice though? What if there was something else that he choose first, but then harmed Raph during a sparring session (causing the scar) and Donnie choose to give that weapon up because of what happened and replaced it with the bo?

They emphasized that the weapon chooses you, instead of the other way around. So if Donnie hurt Raph it would have to be a weapon he was trying out that didn't choose him.


I think the crack in Raph's shell was caused by something else such as pushing a brother out of the way of danger. For example in Slash and Destroy. Raph says "Donnie tried to blow up the lair...again." Indicating that this wasn't the first time something like that had happened. As he said "I'm sorry doesn't cut it this time." The only other time we know Donnie had supposedly blown up the lair was when Donnie made that rocket launcher.

So maybe that what happened was Donnie had been attempting a science experiment that quickly went out of control. Mikey would have been badly injured if Raph hadn't pushed him out of the way getting that crack in his shell as a result.

Raph is angry at Donnie because Mikey could have been seriously hurt. Leo is aware Donnie didn't mean for that to happen, but he's understandably upset because it could have been much worse (as indicated by his comments at Donnie in the beginning "Metalhead Rewired"

Leo: He nearly ripped Mikey's face off.

Donnie: I had everything perfectly under control.

Leo: (Starting to become angry) And when you don't...

And lets not forget Leo's "It's not you...well partially it's you." comment in Slash and Destroy)

Mikey however is more forgiving because he knows it was just an accident, Donnie didn't mean for that to happen and no one was hurt so it's all good.

Donnie is upset by why he has nearly caused and insists he honestly didn't know that would happen.

[victory_angel]

My guesses for the upcoming episode. Rocksteady and Bebop want to have their humanity restored at any cost so they can get back at Shredder for their mutations.

They see the Turtles looking for Karai and want to get revenge on them because of their interference in the exchange during Snake Hunt. So they think they can take out the Shredder's daughter and the Turtles at the same time. That's when they hear that Donnie has Retromutagen with him. And the two thugs realize they can return to normal again. So Rocksteady plans they get the retromutagen for themselves.

As the Shredder doesn't particularly trust his new mutants he had a bug planted on them or a FootBot follow them. The Foot Bot reports back that one of the Turtles has created Retromutagen. Rahzar and Fishface both try to insist that they would find the turtle and get the retromutagen from him. Shredder however says that Tigerclaw will apprehend the retro-mutagen and eliminate the Turtle who created it.

The turtles find Karai and April begins to mentally heal her mind so she would be able to keep a rational mind while her humanity is restored. There is a big fight for the retromutagen, Donnie is also taken captive. In a last ditch effort Donnie tosses the retromutagen which smashes on the ground but some drops land on Karai. Not having any reason to keep his captive alive Rocksteady lets Donnie fall towards towards a supposed death which causes April to lose concentration on keeping Karai mentally stable. Tiger Claw demands that the Turtles surrender Karai so she can return to where she belongs. Karai is angered by Rocksteady's cowardice the mere thought of her false father and reverts into her snake form only this time she has much more control with her mutation. Seeing that Karai has betrayed the Shredder for good and that the Retromutagen didn't completely cure her.

Mikey asks if she's going to change her name to Miwa now that she's one of them. Karai says no because Miwa is a name she never really got to know herself as, and she can't go by Karai as that is the name the Shredder gave her. So she feels that her name should be Kiba.

At the Shredder's lair, Shredder is angered that Stockman had tainted the serpent serum but he also grasps that Karai is a lost cause and doesn't see the point in restoring her humanity any longer.

[JTH]

My guesses for the upcoming episode. Rocksteady and Bebop want to have their humanity restored at any cost so they can get back at Shredder for their mutations.

They see the Turtles looking for Karai and want to get revenge on them because of their interference in the exchange during Snake Hunt. So they think they can take out the Shredder's daughter and the Turtles at the same time. That's when they hear that Donnie has Retromutagen with him. And the two thugs realize they can return to normal again. So Rocksteady plans they get the retromutagen for themselves.

As the Shredder doesn't particularly trust his new mutants he had a bug planted on them or a FootBot follow them. The Foot Bot reports back that one of the Turtles has created Retromutagen. Rahzar and Fishface both try to insist that they would find the turtle and get the retromutagen from him. Shredder however says that Tigerclaw will apprehend the retro-mutagen and eliminate the Turtle who created it.

The turtles find Karai and April begins to mentally heal her mind so she would be able to keep a rational mind while her humanity is restored. There is a big fight for the retromutagen, Donnie is also taken captive. In a last ditch effort Donnie tosses the retromutagen which smashes on the ground but some drops land on Karai. Not having any reason to keep his captive alive Rocksteady lets Donnie fall towards towards a supposed death which causes April to lose concentration on keeping Karai mentally stable. Tiger Claw demands that the Turtles surrender Karai so she can return to where she belongs. Karai is angered by Rocksteady's cowardice the mere thought of her false father and reverts into her snake form only this time she has much more control with her mutation. Seeing that Karai has betrayed the Shredder for good and that the Retromutagen didn't completely cure her.

Mikey asks if she's going to change her name to Miwa now that she's one of them. Karai says no because Miwa is a name she never really got to know herself as, and she can't go by Karai as that is the name the Shredder gave her. So she feels that her name should be Kiba.

At the Shredder's lair, Shredder is angered that Stockman had tainted the serpent serum but he also grasps that Karai is a lost cause and doesn't see the point in restoring her humanity any longer.
I agree with some of it, but with the 2 parter right after this episode, I think they may save some of the important reveals either for the very end of this episode or the next episode, I gave a summarized version of what I thought the ending would be in the Official Info page. I'll be a little more detailed here.

Based on Ciro's instagram pic of Donnie screaming at Mikey's carelessness with Donnie's made retro-mutagen about 30 seconds into the episode, it seems they may be going the route that all the work to help Karai and trying to figure out where she is, is starting to mentally effect Donnie.

Bebop & Rocksteady are set out to find Karai, by any means. Shredder as B&R leave, tells his other henchmen that he doesn't trust them and follow them to make sure they don't do anything foolish. Sure enough, B&R as they locate the Turtles learn of the retro-mutagen, and think if they can get the turtles before they find Karai, they can cure themselves and get out of the city alive. Shredder's henchmen then overhear the group's plans and contemplate what their plan should be. They decide that perhaps it is best to allow the turtles to cure Karai and then take her back once cure, and to do so, must also prevent B&R from intervening and stopping them, so for a brief stint the bad guys will try to play the good role and try to prevent anything from happening.

The end result is Bebop & Rocksteady cause the turtles to fail, lose the retro-mutagen and causing Karai to flee in the process. The failed mission on the henchmen's side makes them take B&R back to the lair. Meanwhile, a disgruntled Donatello becomes more frustrated for he is now set back even more time to help Karai with another batch of retro-mutagen lost and now her whereabouts completely unknown, the others tell him not to worry and that they trust he can do it again.

Back at Shredder's lair, Shredder is informed of B&R's betrayal for their own personal agenda causing Shredder's "Daughter" to flee, and he wants answers. Though, B&R don't reveal their motives, Tiger Claw tells Shredder they have a surveillance photo they of what they believe the two were after, he hands Shredder a photo of the retro-mutagen, and stating that they believe it is the cure for the mutagen. When Shredder demands to know how the turtles obtained it, they state they believe that one of the turtles has discovered how to create it, and they hand Shredder a second photo ("We believe it this one.") Showing a picture of Donatello with the canister in hands. Tiger Claw states that if the Kraang are aware of his knowledge of the cure, they will surely try to eliminate him.

And Shredder states, "Find this turtle! We shall force him to create more, by any means necessary!"

Taking us into the Battle For New York 2 Parter, putting everyone's agenda out front.

[Tarris Vaal]

I'm thinking this may be a little more Leo/Karai focused this time around.

For myself, I'm expecting B+R to be threatened with either working for Shredder or being handed to the Kraang - 'Along with the other mutants' - (so an implication that characters like Snakeweed, Spyderbytez, Slash, etc have largely been rounded up and enslaved by the Kraang ready to be unleashed and/or later freed for the 2 parter)

I wouldn't be surprised to see that B+R have an immediate rivalry with Fishface, and I would expect Tigerclaw or Rahzar/Fishface to be sent to keep an eye on them whilst they perform their mission.

I think April will be crucial in tracking Karai - though Leo won't let her approach and tells her to stay in the party wagon whilst they investigate - much to her annoyance.

I think this will lead to B+R capturing April to use as a bargaining chip for the retromutagen and/or Karai.

During the ensuing struggle (where I imagine you're right that snake Karai will go all out against B+R), I think Tigerclaw will discover Donnie is responsible for creating the retromutagen and will eventually directly witness its effect on Karai (who will be mostly healed). I don't think they'll capture/take down Donnie yet, I suspect that will be the end of the 2 parter and set up the 2nd half of the season. To that end, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some small but important AprilxDon scene early/mid episode where she wants to tell him she's made a choice about their relationship, but doesn't get a chance to finish - the strong implication will be she expects him to be disappointed, but could be just that she's nervous. It could well be that image of Mikey messing about with the retromutagen that interrupts them.

I suspect it'll be Leo who finally gets the retromutagen to Karai and saves her from danger, just so they have a nice moment where she smiles and fails to thank him properly again. I agree that I don't think it'll be the last we see of snake Karai.

I would also expect it to be revealed that one of Shredder's minions is working more closely with the Kraang than previously thought - and informs the Kraang of the Retromutagen (I'm thinking either Fishface or Tigerclaw)


Finally - though I do have my doubts on this - I'm really hoping there is some little indication that the EPF are still observing things and preparing to move again to retake New York.

[victory_angel]

If there is a moment where Donnie and April bring a supposed end to their relationship. Donnie has to be the one to end it. After all we've had April break away in season two so if they have a break up even a temperary one then Donnie has to make the move.

Perhaps in battle for New York, April is going to admit her feelings for Donnie, while Donnie in the mean time has settled his mind that he needs to break things off with her even if it means losing her. Because they are going into a dangerous situation that could be life or death and if it becomes known that he has feelings for her, the Foot Clan would target her just to get to him. And by that extent cause him to put his family at risk in order to save her.

So when April approaches him to tell him where she stands as far as their relationship, he cuts her off and says that he feels they should end things between them. And that she's better off with Casey. April is taken aback by this and says what she had to say wasn't important anyway. And then later when Donnie is captured/wounded/or both she realizes that Donnie broke off their relationship to protect her.

[Tarris Vaal]

I'm actually expecting her to admit some sort of feelings for him around this point (assuming she does at all) - primarily so he can be snatched away from her before she gets the chance - but I'm really expecting it to be presented to the viewers like she could yet go either or neither way (mainly to bring it closer to conclusion without giving anything away to us)

Hence why I think it'll look like she's going to say something that'll disappoint him (to imply shes going to tell him to just be friends) - when really it could just be nerves.

Plus, given this show's pattern, I'd expect anything vaguely serious drama wise like this to be spoiled/interrupted by something silly happening (usually Mikey) just so it cant conclude and annoy us for a few more weeks. Given the screen shot we've been shown - that sort of silliness does sort of fit the pattern for breaking a scene like this.

Lingering suspicions anyway :)

I have to admit I actually really like the idea that Donnie has been secretly arranging with Leo to keep April out of danger and has been taking other actions to protect her from the worst of it - though I can imagine April potentially being really annoyed at first if she finds out. I also expect it'd be Leo or Raph who bluntly tells her what's been happening when it all hits the fan. But I suspect we wouldn't find out anything like that till after or at the end of the 2 parter

[victory_angel]

Karai is cured for the most part and stays with the Turtles, but she doesn't feel all that welcomed. April isn't exactly mean towards her but she hasn't exactly forgotten the times Karai has tried to kill her or her friends. And the cramped living space isn't helping matters. Casey is also suspicious about her and how trust worthy she actually is.

The Turtles and Casey are away to seek a more permanent shelter as they know that Shredder is going to be looking for where they are hiding Karai. While the two girls are left alone in the pizza shop, Karai offers that she and April make a new start as things have changed. April is dubious and says just because she's Splinter's daughter that doesn't mean she forgives her for attacking her and her friends on numerous occasions. Karai says she doesn't deserve April's forgiveness. But she wants to end things with the Shredder and he had raised her to believe that honor can only be cleansed with death.

April doesn't agree with killing being the end all option as it breeds only more hatred. But she does agree that the Shredder needs to be stopped. And she believes the Turtles have the ability to save the city. She also mentions that Donnie was able to cure her father before and he was able to cure her.

Karai feels that was something he didn't have to do as he had no actual reason to trust her. But then she realizes that if the Shredder or Kraang learned about the Retromutagen, then he would be targeted...Or someone he's close to. Before April can comment the pizza shop is attacked.

[Mew]

We should have an episode where a poacher tries to catch Karai, and then Karai gets killed............by SPLINTER! He does this because of rage. Rage from Oroku Saki, rage from his wife dying, rage from all the intense s**t he has gone through.

[Tarris Vaal]

Intriguing.... :) How do you anticipate that working though? Are you thinking this would be the next episode or something that might be a cool idea generally?

[Mew]

A cool idea.

[turtlefanforever]

where they combine the PD movie universe and the nick tmnt series universe and use the PD designs for the rest of the series.

[Amaranthus]

where they combine the PD movie universe and the nick tmnt series universe and use the PD designs for the rest of the series.

That's ridiculous, why would they?

[Mew]

where they combine the PD movie universe and the nick tmnt series universe and use the PD designs for the rest of the series.
How is that Turtle Torture?

[victory_angel]

I don't see them giving combinations with the recent movie, but I can see nods to it such as frame for frame scene where the Turtles are sliding down a snow covered mountain.

Eric Sacks comes in as a character...maybe a rich benefactor who funds the EPF and/or Dirk Savage but is in actuality using them to further his own goals.

Donnie telling Raph "Let me be the bad ass for once!" (Or as close to that as the sensors will allow since you can't really say "Bad Ass" on a kids network.) Before risking his life in a way to save his brothers and/or family.

Scene with the Turtles hanging for dear life off the side of a large building.

[turtlefanforever]

That's ridiculous, why would they?

When '07 came out they adapted the animations of the turtles in 2k3. With the new movie being successful in the box office they should follow suit.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

where they combine the PD movie universe and the nick tmnt series universe and use the PD designs for the rest of the series.

sHNBxd4LnDs

[neatoman]

Here's an idea, Murakami fails to pay protection money to the Purple Dragons so Hun strangles him to death.The restaurant is then rented by Mr. Kahn.

[JTH]

Here's an idea, Murakami fails to pay protection money to the Purple Dragons so Hun strangles him to death.The restaurant is then rented by Mr. Khan.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1dsCGUm59FQ/TXdilAbVogI/AAAAAAAAEBE/owCZ7__ORk0/star-trek-kirk-khan.gif

[neatoman]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1dsCGUm59FQ/TXdilAbVogI/AAAAAAAAEBE/owCZ7__ORk0/star-trek-kirk-khan.gif

Funny, but my original joke does not work as you changed it from Kahn to Khan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_R._Kahn

[Tarris Vaal]

In all fairness given he's survived purple dragons, Tigerclaw and possibly a Kraang invasion if he is somehow still alive by the end of the show it would be something of a pleasant shock! - Murakami is awesome :)

Is Hun likely to appear as part of the Purple Dragons? Or would it be more likely he'd show up with his own 'crew' to replace them as the prominent gang?

Going back to meowmeow's idea, I can't imagine Splinter going berserk again in that manner - though I could imagine that if Karai went berserk enough that she threatened to kill one of the Turtles then Splinter might intervene - potentially with accidental death as a result.

If that were to occur, I can imagine it would likely be as a result of the Turtles and Karai being separated and under attack by Shredder's minions. Karai enters her berserk state whilst the others try to regroup. She attacks either Mikey or Donnie and easily overpowers them to a point where she is about to kill them. With Raph and Leo unable to help, Splinter intervenes personally.

Leo and Raph struggle to get to the fight, but though controlled Splinter is struggling. Something happens which causes Splinter to stumble, and attracts Karai's attention to Mikey/Donnie again. She strikes and Splinter acts on instinct - intending to incapacitate. Something goes wrong and the attack causes part of the building they are in to become unstable. Raph sees Splinter attack Karai directly with a unnecessarily deadly attack, and seemingly to deliberately kill her (he doesn't see that it was to protect the others)

Leo rushes to try and help Karai before its too late, but the building collapses and she is caught in the debris and presumed dead (because we cant possibly get a straight answer)

Leo is devastated and Splinter is left in shock. Raph, only seeing a skewed version of the events, is left stunned by Splinter's assault on his own daughter. Unable to comprehend it, he runs, shoving aside Mikey as Mikey tries to stop him and explain.

As Raph struggles to accept what he thinks he has seen, Shredder appears and tells him this was inevitable, that Hamato Yoshi is the true danger and that Shredder was right all along. Raph, though still in a state of shock, doesn't believe him, but the seed of doubt is still planted.



I think that works as a scenario :)

[victory_angel]

Or Raph is protecting one of his Bro's or April from Karai. However the action he takes to protect them causes the wear house they are in to collapse everyone but Karai supposedly makes it out alive. Splinter is upset that he has lost his daughter yet again and this time it looks like that loss is for good. Leo is angry at Raph for being so impulsive, Raph insists he hadn't intended on killing her. He only did it to protect everyone else. Leo refuses to listen to it and says now Karai is gone forever.

Splinter tells the to of them to stop their argument...and says they should return home. Everyone leaves but Raph stays behind feeling like he really doesn't belong with anyone anymore.

[victory_angel]

April, Casey, and the Turtles are going on a camping trip. This gives Splinter and Karai and opportunity to get to know each other as father and daughter. And it gives the Turtles a chance to relax after saving New York.

Leo suggests they use the time to train. Which causes Raph, Donnie, Mikey, and Casey to groan because they just want the opportunity to relax and have fun. At that moment a space ship crash lands in the lake surrounding an old abandoned saw mill that is near their camp site.

The group goes to investigate only for a mech to come out of the water and attack them. They manage to defeat the alien mech and find a young blue skinned woman inside it.

April notices the alien girl is injured and wants to help her and Donnie assists. Casey comments to Raph about how it's not everyday that hot chicks suddenly fall from the sky.

Raph is dubious about taking the unknown space girl to their camp site as they don't know anything about her. As far as they know she may just attack them again.

April tends the girls injuries and as they don't have any extra sleeping bags they used Donnie's. However the girl wakes up and her first reaction is to be hostilely.

April tells the guys to put down their weapons to show they mean no harm. The girl also puts away her weapon and demands to know who they are. April introduces herself and the Turtles and says that she is on the planet earth.

The girl says that she is named Jhanna and she was chosen by her people as the new queen. Her planets current ruler is a tyrant named Moriah. The two women were meant to dual in a far off uninhabited planet, but Moriah shot her down causing her to crash land there. The reason she had attacked them was because she thought they were agents of Moriah.

Leo asks if their is anything they could do to help her quest, Jhanna tells them that they should run and find shelter where they can hide because when Moriah comes she will bring war with her.

Above Earth a space ship approaches the planet. A commander tells Moriah that Jhanna had survived the crash. Moriah isn't surprised because while Jhanna is a child compared to her she is still formidable and no doubt has been forced to use Earth as their battle site. She then coyly asks if the planet is inhabited to which the answer is yes. Moriah smiles and says that when shes defeated Jhanna she would enslave the planet as it would make a lovely prize. She at once starts sending people out to capture the inhabitants (as a means of collecting the prize before the battle is won. Casey, Splinter, and Karai are also captured during the attack.)

Moriah sends message to Jhanna and says she has a week to surrender as she has no allies. Jhanna turns to the turtles and April and tells them that she can't ask them to be involved in her battle. Donnie tells her they are already involved because Moriah is threatening their planet and has taken people they care for as hostage. So they will stay and fight on her side against Moriah. Over the course of the arc, April notices how Jhanna seems to have bonded with Donatello and feels threatened by it. But she just brushes it off as concern for her family and friends who are Moriah's prisoners. At the end of the arc when Moriah has been defeated Jhanna declares that as the new queen all the captured inhabitants of earth must be returned. Before she leaves April sees Jhanna and Donnie talking. Jhanna then tells April that while she has come to enjoy Donatello's company...his heart belongs to someone else.

[Tarris Vaal]

Moriah and Jhanna aren't characters I'm familiar with - returning ones from the 2k3 series?

[neatoman]

Moriah and Jhanna aren't characters I'm familiar with - returning ones from the 2k3 series?

They're characters from a single issue of the Mirage run, it was adapted into an episode in season 4.

[Tarris Vaal]

That would make for an awesomely obscure reference then :)

Sounds like something that should be drawn out over half a season or so though.

April notices the alien girl is injured and wants to help her and Donnie assists. Casey comments to Raph about how it's not everyday that hot chicks suddenly fall from the sky.

I always thought it would be nice for either Mikey or Raph to become the team's primary medic. Donnie already has so much responsibility as the 'brains' of the team that making him the medic as well just felt like he was always the 'go to' guy for just about everything not leadership related. Though i can't imagine Mikey being trusted as a medic, it does seem something his nature would lend him toward - and equally I can imagine Raph adding it as a no nonsense skill, though with bedside manner that would make McCoy seem kindly.

Anyway, I like your idea of blending this with the April/Donnie arc - though I would suggest give Raph a thing for her (especially if he doesnt trust her at the start). It would lend another edge to that dynamic as Raph notices her attentions to Donnie and feels some jealousy despite the fact Donnie shows no interest in her himself.

How would you think Leo would react in a situation like this? If both Splinter and Karai were lost in the same attack? Would he become reckless enough to strike back without proper planning or risk a lone mission whilst the others tried to figure something out?
It'd be interesting to give him some rivalry with Moriah - as with Shredder - have her be, in some way a dark mirror of Leo, or perhaps her actions make him risk becoming like Shredder as his desperation to save them has him make some dark decisions.

[victory_angel]

yeah they are one shot characters. Jahanna is sort of an implied love interest though it differs between the mirage and the 2k3 story.

In the mirage comic there is one frame where Donatello is shown standing guard over her as she sleeps.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/6726/516893-don_jhanna.jpg

But the next morning when she receives notice that she can return home so she cuts off her warriors braid and leaves with a sleeping Donatello with a "Goodbye and Thank You."
And at the end of the comic Donnie is shown holding her warriors braid with a rather smug looking expression.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TqJ5oeN-tjw/Tr77yuP9nzI/AAAAAAAAHLQ/FHRHr8-RHpk/s1600/choice04.jpg

But for the episode in the 2k3 they emphasize the possibility of her being a love interest more particularly at the end. Because Don and Jhanna are shown sleeping next to each other in a manner that is similar to that of a husband and wife. And when Jhanna returns to her planet she cuts off her hair and leaves it with him. Only instead of "Goodbye and Thank you." She says "I'll never forget you." And then the end of the episode he is shown tucking the hair she had left him into his camping bag and it's never seen or spoken of again.

https://41.media.tumblr.com/47be9092bde482352ddcc5eb443e77a5/tumblr_na0qlqZEgY1qhciipo10_250.png

The only reason I can see Jhanna being brought in would be as a means of making April jealous or feel that her relationship with Donnie is threatened. Much like how Donnie feels threatened by Casey and vice vrs. Only I don't think in this case leaving a braid of hair with Donnie would be appropriate because that is akin to leaving a love token. But perhaps maybe April gets a reassurance from Jhanna that Donnie's heart belongs to her.

[Tarris Vaal]

That is quite a smug expression :) (and Jhanna's a cool looking character design from the pic as well)


The only reason I can see Jhanna being brought in would be as a means of making April jealous or feel that her relationship with Donnie is threatened. Much like how Donnie feels threatened by Casey and vice vrs. Only I don't think in this case leaving a braid of hair with Donnie would be appropriate because that is akin to leaving a love token. But perhaps maybe April gets a reassurance from Jhanna that Donnie's heart belongs to her.

I think that certainly works well within the context of the nick series - especially as she clearly has history with Donnie from other incarnations.

She could still give Donnie the braid though, and Donnie could still have some attraction to her. We've had an instance already of Donnie being pursued where he wasn't interested (Foot too Big), so this would cover an alternate angle where he is... albeit perhaps only a little - enough to make April think he is being drawn away from her.

That said I do definitely think Donnie's love life has done pretty well for screen time this series ;) If Leo has Karai to pine over and Mikey is getting Renet, I think Raph feeling a bit of attraction (and jealousy) would be a nice touch :)

[Keroscene]

How come so many of these "dark and edgy" ideas are so thoroughly 1992ish? It all just feels a little bit... Liefeld.

[victory_angel]

That would make for an awesomely obscure reference then :)

Sounds like something that should be drawn out over half a season or so though.


I always thought it would be nice for either Mikey or Raph to become the team's primary medic. Donnie already has so much responsibility as the 'brains' of the team that making him the medic as well just felt like he was always the 'go to' guy for just about everything not leadership related. Though i can't imagine Mikey being trusted as a medic, it does seem something his nature would lend him toward - and equally I can imagine Raph adding it as a no nonsense skill, though with bedside manner that would make McCoy seem kindly.

Anyway, I like your idea of blending this with the April/Donnie arc - though I would suggest give Raph a thing for her (especially if he doesnt trust her at the start). It would lend another edge to that dynamic as Raph notices her attentions to Donnie and feels some jealousy despite the fact Donnie shows no interest in her himself.

How would you think Leo would react in a situation like this? If both Splinter and Karai were lost in the same attack? Would he become reckless enough to strike back without proper planning or risk a lone mission whilst the others tried to figure something out?
It'd be interesting to give him some rivalry with Moriah - as with Shredder - have her be, in some way a dark mirror of Leo, or perhaps her actions make him risk becoming like Shredder as his desperation to save them has him make some dark decisions.

In the episode Moriah does bring out some monsters to deal with the Turtles. And the Turtles have trouble dealing with them until they figure out how they could be defeated.

Maybe Moriah has her monsters capture the turtles except April and Donnie. The Turtles break out of their prison on the ship and free Splinter, Karai, Casey, and anyone else they know as an ally so they can prevent Moriah from being aided on Earth.

Donnie in the meantime is protecting April and Jhanna and that's where Jhanna realizes with whom Donnie's heart actually lies.

Raph being jealous would be an interesting touch, but I see him more with Joi or Ninjara...particularly if Joi becomes Ninjara. So far I think his beef is that he believes no one is honestly going to want them because they are "Giant, ugly, mutant, turtles." And when he over hears Jhanna reassuring April that Donatello's heart belongs to someone else. He begins to wonder if people could actually learn to love them despite the fact they are giant mutant reptiles.



As for Donnie as a medic all the Turtles are skilled in triage, but Donnie is the closest person they have to a doctor aside from Splinter. That doesn't mean he's going to suddenly perform open heart surgery on any of his bros. But he is more likely to do the more invasive stuff. He classifies himself as scientist in this incarnation and even scientists have to take some courses in medicine.

Donnie is also skilled in leadership though he tends to unconsciously step into the leadership role. He had lead a group three times now, though it would have been good to have an episode where he felt stressed about being leader.

I think if he was weaker at some home skill it would be cooking. I'd think as far as cooking he's skilled enough to throw a sandwich together. But anything beyond that he's best kept out of the kitchen. They normally leave the cooking to Mikey and even then that is occasional as they mostly eat pizza. Leo was shown cooking effectively once and that was when he made ramen in Cockroach Terminator. But in Mikey gets Shellacne Donnie was the one who was making the toast and Leo commented that it was over done.

[victory_angel]

The Turtles find Kurtzman in the city. They are glad he's alive and unmutated. He helps them in an escape though he is hit in the the arm by lazer fire. April goes to get a first aid kit while Kurtzmen protests that isn't needed. Donnie hears this and demands Kurtzman tell them the truth about what he really is. Kurtzman at asks how Donnie knew he wasn't human. Donnie says he had been scored by lazar fire during the invasion and he never forgot the burn that it left behind. If he was really human, he wouldn't be saying that treatment wasn't needed.

Kurtzman sighs and says that yes he isn't really a human...he then opens his shirt and reveals he is what the turtles would recognize as a Kraang. The Turtles are surprised by this, April is also offended they had been placing their trust in a Kraang all this time.

Kurtzman says he isn't involved with the Kraang. He then explains Kraang Primes motives for trying to make planet earth a new Dimention X. Kurtzman then brings up the subject about April having Kraang DNA. Casey is shocked by this and demands to know why she didn't tell him about this. April said she had only recently found out she was part Kraang and it was Donnie who had discovered that.

Casey then demands to know when any of them planned on telling him this. April explains it was not something she was proud of but the Kraang are after her because of it. Casey is too angry and confused to listen and starts getting on her case about how his father and sister are mutants because of her. Donnie is about to object, but Leo steps in and tells Casey he's the one that's being out of line. The human boy angrily storms off, Donnie and Raph go after him because it's too dangerous to be alone right now and perhaps they could reason with him. April is upset by what had transpired, Mikey tries to comfort her by saying that Casey didn't mean it and that he'll be back. And if something happens Donnie could always use the Retromutagen and bring him back to normal.

Kurtzman then looks aghast and asks if they had actually found a way to reverse the mutation process. Leo says yes, April also admits that she is immune to mutagen and because of that her DNA can be used to create Retromutagen. Kurtzman then tells them it's good she's with them right now...but Donatello...if the Kraang learn he can create retromutagen...he would be in moral danger.

Donnie and Raph split up to look for Casey and contact only if they find him or they are in danger. Tigerclaw and Rahzar see the Turtles split up and go after Donatello.

Rahzar: Like taking candy from a baby.

Donatello finds himself confronted with both Rahzar and Tiger Claw. He knows he can't take on both on his own he tries to escape so he can contact Raph. Unfortunately he gets snagged by Tiger Claws rope launcher causing his t-phone to fly from his grasp. Raph finds Casey and sends a text to Donnie's phone that he had found Casey.

He approaches Casey and starts to talk to him and gets a call from Leo asking if Donnie is with him and explains he's in danger. Raph calls Donnie's t-phone. Rahzar finds Donnie's Tphone on the ground and crushes it by stomping on it. Before he and Tiger Claw take off with Donatello as their captive,

Rahzar: Sorry...this phones out of service.

Raph get a notice on his phone about Donnie's number has been disconnected and no longer available and knows this means something had happened to his brother.

[victory_angel]

Shredder notices the people of New York have been restored and knows someone out there has a way to reverse mutations. Bebop mentions it was probably that retromutagen the Turtles had to Rocksteady. Shredder over hears this and demands to know about the Retromutagen

Rocksteady says when they were out trying to capture Karai they encountered they found the Turtles had retromutagen with them. The other members of the Foot Clan realize Donatello must have created a cure for mutations and Shredder orders his capture.

In the mean time the Turtles have gone back to the lair to see if it's still salvageable or maybe they have found a place they can use as their new lair so they are salvaging what they can from their old one.

The old lair is more or less compromised so they attack at the lair. There is a fight and Donatello is captured and brought to the Stockman's lab.
Leo and the others inform Splinter of what has happened.

Donnie is brought to where Karai is being held. Shredder informs the Turtle that it should be obvious as to the reasons behind his capture. Donnie tells Shredder they've already tried to cure Karai without success. Shredder doesn't believe this and says he knows his brothers and friends would be coming for him, perhaps they would serve as incentive in producing a cure for Karai.

[Bitsy83]

Posted this in the other forum:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1430467&postcount=160

[Tarris Vaal]

That works really well - I love the idea of Mikey frantically trying to recreate the Retromutagen special to save Donnie :)

(And I can well imagine that a freshly restored Karai would try to stay in the Foot to stay close to Shredder)

The real question remains how long it takes for Shredder to try and capture Donnie (assuming he even does). I'd expect he would go out of his way to try and force Baxter to recreate the retromutagen formula first. He'd only turn to the Turtles once it becomes clear Baxter can't do so.

At which point his attention would fall on Donatello.

Given how important it is to him to save Karai, I could imagine he would try to do this himself, probably using a combination of his minions to attack April to draw out the Turtles.

Once the Turtles take the bait, Tigerclaw ensures Donnie is separated from the others at which point Shredder personally takes him down. He captures April as well to ensure the Turtle's cooperation and takes them back to the Foot HQ. During the escape, Raph tries to intervene, but is unable to do so.

Raph, Leo and Mikey discuss what they will do to break in and free all of them. Splinter advises caution, whilst Casey is up for a direct assault. They try to sneak in, but they are expected and almost trapped. Foiled, they have to withdraw, but they do at least discover the reason Donatello was captured.

Whilst Mikey tries desperately to remake the retromutagen special, Leo and Raph are at loggerheads over their next move. Leo feels terrible, but advises caution - he doesn't want to throw themselves into a trap again. Raph doesn't want to risk waiting.
The Turtles receive a video message from Shredder, showing Donatello badly beaten, and warning that any further attempts to interfere would be unfortunate for April o Neil.
This only incenses Raph further and he sneaks out. Casey intercepts him and asks to tag along. The two of them try to break in, but become separated - Raph ends up confronting Shredder alone. After a brief fight, Shredder explains he has a means to kill Donatello implanted into his shell and he is willing to make a deal.
If Raph joins the Foot and helps take down Splinter, he will let Donatello live.

As this is all happening, Fishface, Rahzar and Tigerclaw are meeting with Mikey to retrieve the Retromutagen who has been shadowed by Leo and between them, Leo manages to get him out of danger (albeit that the retromutagen special is captured by Tigerclaw). A result of this though, is only Baxter and B/R are present at the Foot base. Casey's job at breaking in is a lot easier as a result when he 'borrow's Bebop's invisibility device. April - tired of waiting, has broken herself out after Baxter taunts her and Donatello once too often.

Even as Raph considers Shredder's offer, Casey meets up with April and Donnie and the three of them start to escape. Donnie and Casey try to go back in to get Raph, Instead of going with them he forces them away, even attacking them to drive them off. Worse, damage caused during the fight with B/R causes the building to start to explode. Donnie is devastated, but Casey and April get him out.

[Mew]

We need Slash and Shredder to team up to kill all of the Turtles. Mikey is the only survivor.

[Bitsy83]

We need Slash and Shredder to team up to kill all of the Turtles. Mikey is the only survivor.

........Slash is a good guy now. He wouldn't want to hurt the Turtles.

[victory_angel]

That works really well - I love the idea of Mikey frantically trying to recreate the Retromutagen special to save Donnie :)

(And I can well imagine that a freshly restored Karai would try to stay in the Foot to stay close to Shredder)

The real question remains how long it takes for Shredder to try and capture Donnie (assuming he even does). I'd expect he would go out of his way to try and force Baxter to recreate the retromutagen formula first. He'd only turn to the Turtles once it becomes clear Baxter can't do so.

At which point his attention would fall on Donatello.

Given how important it is to him to save Karai, I could imagine he would try to do this himself, probably using a combination of his minions to attack April to draw out the Turtles.

Once the Turtles take the bait, Tigerclaw ensures Donnie is separated from the others at which point Shredder personally takes him down. He captures April as well to ensure the Turtle's cooperation and takes them back to the Foot HQ. During the escape, Raph tries to intervene, but is unable to do so.

Raph, Leo and Mikey discuss what they will do to break in and free all of them. Splinter advises caution, whilst Casey is up for a direct assault. They try to sneak in, but they are expected and almost trapped. Foiled, they have to withdraw, but they do at least discover the reason Donatello was captured.

Whilst Mikey tries desperately to remake the retromutagen special, Leo and Raph are at loggerheads over their next move. Leo feels terrible, but advises caution - he doesn't want to throw themselves into a trap again. Raph doesn't want to risk waiting.
The Turtles receive a video message from Shredder, showing Donatello badly beaten, and warning that any further attempts to interfere would be unfortunate for April o Neil.
This only incenses Raph further and he sneaks out. Casey intercepts him and asks to tag along. The two of them try to break in, but become separated - Raph ends up confronting Shredder alone. After a brief fight, Shredder explains he has a means to kill Donatello implanted into his shell and he is willing to make a deal.
If Raph joins the Foot and helps take down Splinter, he will let Donatello live.

As this is all happening, Fishface, Rahzar and Tigerclaw are meeting with Mikey to retrieve the Retromutagen who has been shadowed by Leo and between them, Leo manages to get him out of danger (albeit that the retromutagen special is captured by Tigerclaw). A result of this though, is only Baxter and B/R are present at the Foot base. Casey's job at breaking in is a lot easier as a result when he 'borrow's Bebop's invisibility device. April - tired of waiting, has broken herself out after Baxter taunts her and Donatello once too often.

Even as Raph considers Shredder's offer, Casey meets up with April and Donnie and the three of them start to escape. Donnie and Casey try to go back in to get Raph, Instead of going with them he forces them away, even attacking them to drive them off. Worse, damage caused during the fight with B/R causes the building to start to explode. Donnie is devastated, but Casey and April get him out.

I like your idea, however there are a few problems with it.

First Shredder isn't patient, so if someone has a sooner means of making the Retromutagen then he would go with that.

And second Zeck's suit is fused to his body, so Casey wouldn't be able to have the invisibility field even if he wanted to.

What we know so far in cannon:

Baxter and Rahzar know the Turtles are able to make Retromutagen, but they haven't informed the Shredder of this, because they both want to be restored to human themselves. And at that time it didn't really matter the Turtles had created Retromutagen.

In Pig and Rino

In the beginning of the episode Shredder gives both Rocksteady and Bebop an ultimatum. They serve him as his henchmen or else they would die at his hand. Rocksteady answers that they would serve him for now. Meaning that they would serve him because they have no choice in the matter, but as soon as they have an opening in which to turnagainst the Shredder they would take it.

Bebop found the retromutagen after he knocked Donnie out but he didn't know what it was when he had found it. Mikey only blurted out that it was retromutagen when he sees Bebop has it. And Rocksteady says they could use it to become human again.

Following the midseason finally, the Shredder is bound to notice what has taken place. I.E. everyone in the city restored and returned from Dimension X.

so here is what feels possible to me.

Unlike FishFace and Rahzar, Rocksteady and Bebop have successfully found and captured Karai. And since Rocksteady and Bebop know that the Turtles have Retromutagen, and one of them can create it. So they inform Shredder about this, but secretly plan on capturing the Turtle for themselves with the intent of forcing him to make Retromutagen for them.

It is unclear if they saw that the Retromutagen failed on Karai. If they did, they would be info they would likely keep to themselves, because Karai doesn't really mean anything to them.

Fishface and Rahzar also hold little love for Karai, and they also want to be human again. But unlike Bebop and Rocksteady they know the Turtles well enough to know which Turtle they should be targeting.

Baxter also wants to the retromutagen formula for himself.

Tiger Claw is also doubtful about having the others go after the turtles and Shredder agrees and sends Tiger Claw out and apprehend Donatello himself.

Rocksteady and Bebop wonder how to get the Turtles out into the open. Bebop then suggests they use the two humans the turtles were with as she does seem to hold some importance to them. So they nab April and Casey with the hope of getting the turtles into the open.

Donnie in the mean time is trying to see about creating that super retromutagen believing that could potentially cure Karai. And keeps trying grill Mikey about what he did to create that additive. But Mikey doesn't remember which chemicals he used because all the chemicals look alike to him. Which causes Donnie to become even more frustrated.

They then receive a call from the Bebop and Rocksteady informing them that their human friends have been captured and if they don't show up with Retromutagen. Rocksteady "Will pop their heads like blueberry" starting with the girl.

Leo knows this is a set up for the Retromutagen but they can't forsake their human friends. So they go out and rescue April and Casey. Fish Face and Rahzar note the Turtles have Retromutagen and feel things would be easier to just capture the Retromutagen from Donatello rather then capturing him.

Tiger Claw arrives at the end and take both the retromutagen while Rocksteady and Bebop capture Donatello much to the dislike of Rahzar and Fishface.

Tiger Claw brings the Retromutagen to the Shredder. The retromutagen is sprayed onto Karai, but nothing happens. Shredder is angered at this and rounds on Donatello demanding to know if the Retromutagen was fake.
Donnie explains that no it wasn't fake, but something was different with Karai's mutation. Fishface accuses Donatello of lying. But Tiger Claw says the boy is telling the truth.

All the other Turtles are forced to return home and tells Splinter what has happened. Mike feels upset that he wasn't able to remember what chemicals he used and now Donnie is suffering because of it.

There is a rescue attempt to gain Donnie back, Leo see's Karai and wants to free her. Unfortunately her mind is gone, and she is completely feral now. When she attacks April, April is some how able to reach Karai psychically and pulls her back to herself somewhat. Karai tells everyone else where Donatello is imprisoned and makes her escape.

They find Donnie unfortunately he is in real bad shape. And to make matters worse they have the Mutants and the Shredder trying to prevent their escape. Raph stays behind to try and hold them off and it taken captive by the Foot Clan.

[Tarris Vaal]

First Shredder isn't patient, so if someone has a sooner means of making the Retromutagen then he would go with that.

True, but he may have difficulty trusting anything captured off the Turtles initially. I would have thought if he thought he could get Baxter to recreate it that would be his first port of call.

And second Zeck's suit is fused to his body, so Casey wouldn't be able to have the invisibility field even if he wanted to

Is it? I knew Rocksteadys knuckledusters had, and there appears to be some metal running through Rocksteady's upper arms, but I didnt notice anything particularly like that on Bebop. It may well be, but no one mentioned it that I saw :)



It occurs to me we havent checked to see if our predictions held up for Pig and the Rhino (and Battle for New York)

VA's
Rocksteady and Bebop want to have their humanity restored at any cost so they can get back at Shredder for their mutations.
Check :)

They see the Turtles looking for Karai and want to get revenge on them because of their interference in the exchange during Snake Hunt.
Check :)

So they think they can take out the Shredder's daughter and the Turtles at the same time. That's when they hear that Donnie has Retromutagen with him. And the two thugs realize they can return to normal again. So Rocksteady plans they get the retromutagen for themselves.

Check, check, check and check :) even down to which character suggests it first

As the Shredder doesn't particularly trust his new mutants he had a bug planted on them or a FootBot follow them. The Foot Bot reports back that one of the Turtles has created Retromutagen. Rahzar and Fishface both try to insist that they would find the turtle and get the retromutagen from him. Shredder however says that Tigerclaw will apprehend the retro-mutagen and eliminate the Turtle who created it.

Well it was a good run :( - though this may happen later

The turtles find Karai and April begins to mentally heal her mind so she would be able to keep a rational mind while her humanity is restored. There is a big fight for the retromutagen, Donnie is also taken captive. In a last ditch effort Donnie tosses the retromutagen which smashes on the ground but some drops land on Karai. Not having any reason to keep his captive alive Rocksteady lets Donnie fall towards towards a supposed death which causes April to lose concentration on keeping Karai mentally stable. Tiger Claw demands that the Turtles surrender Karai so she can return to where she belongs. Karai is angered by Rocksteady's cowardice the mere thought of her false father and reverts into her snake form only this time she has much more control with her mutation. Seeing that Karai has betrayed the Shredder for good and that the Retromutagen didn't completely cure her.

Close in some regards, but no cigar sadly - though Mikey was threatened with being dropped

Mikey asks if she's going to change her name to Miwa now that she's one of them. Karai says no because Miwa is a name she never really got to know herself as, and she can't go by Karai as that is the name the Shredder gave her. So she feels that her name should be Kiba.

At the Shredder's lair, Shredder is angered that Stockman had tainted the serpent serum but he also grasps that Karai is a lost cause and doesn't see the point in restoring her humanity any longer.

Not yet at least....

6 points!

JTH

Based on Ciro's instagram pic of Donnie screaming at Mikey's carelessness with Donnie's made retro-mutagen about 30 seconds into the episode, it seems they may be going the route that all the work to help Karai and trying to figure out where she is, is starting to mentally effect Donnie.

Close but no cigar :(

Bebop & Rocksteady are set out to find Karai, by any means. Shredder as B&R leave, tells his other henchmen that he doesn't trust them and follow them to make sure they don't do anything foolish. Sure enough, B&R as they locate the Turtles learn of the retro-mutagen, and think if they can get the turtles before they find Karai, they can cure themselves and get out of the city alive. Shredder's henchmen then overhear the group's plans and contemplate what their plan should be. They decide that perhaps it is best to allow the turtles to cure Karai and then take her back once cure, and to do so, must also prevent B&R from intervening and stopping them, so for a brief stint the bad guys will try to play the good role and try to prevent anything from happening

Check to start, but sadly just one point there

The end result is Bebop & Rocksteady cause the turtles to fail, lose the retro-mutagen and causing Karai to flee in the process. The failed mission on the henchmen's side makes them take B&R back to the lair. Meanwhile, a disgruntled Donatello becomes more frustrated for he is now set back even more time to help Karai with another batch of retro-mutagen lost and now her whereabouts completely unknown, the others tell him not to worry and that they trust he can do it again.

Failed mission check - ish :)

Back at Shredder's lair, Shredder is informed of B&R's betrayal for their own personal agenda causing Shredder's "Daughter" to flee, and he wants answers. Though, B&R don't reveal their motives, Tiger Claw tells Shredder they have a surveillance photo they of what they believe the two were after, he hands Shredder a photo of the retro-mutagen, and stating that they believe it is the cure for the mutagen. When Shredder demands to know how the turtles obtained it, they state they believe that one of the turtles has discovered how to create it, and they hand Shredder a second photo ("We believe it this one.") Showing a picture of Donatello with the canister in hands. Tiger Claw states that if the Kraang are aware of his knowledge of the cure, they will surely try to eliminate him

Off, but the last bit may yet occur

1 1/2 points :)

TV

For myself, I'm expecting B+R to be threatened with either working for Shredder or being handed to the Kraang - 'Along with the other mutants' - (so an implication that characters like Snakeweed, Spyderbytez, Slash, etc have largely been rounded up and enslaved by the Kraang ready to be unleashed and/or later freed for the 2 parter)

ha ha, no

I wouldn't be surprised to see that B+R have an immediate rivalry with Fishface, and I would expect Tigerclaw or Rahzar/Fishface to be sent to keep an eye on them whilst they perform their mission.

They were barely in the episode. No

I think April will be crucial in tracking Karai - though Leo won't let her approach and tells her to stay in the party wagon whilst they investigate - much to her annoyance.

Nope

I think this will lead to B+R capturing April to use as a bargaining chip for the retromutagen and/or Karai.

Check! :)

During the ensuing struggle (where I imagine you're right that snake Karai will go all out against B+R), I think Tigerclaw will discover Donnie is responsible for creating the retromutagen and will eventually directly witness its effect on Karai (who will be mostly healed). I don't think they'll capture/take down Donnie yet, I suspect that will be the end of the 2 parter and set up the 2nd half of the season. To that end, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some small but important AprilxDon scene early/mid episode where she wants to tell him she's made a choice about their relationship, but doesn't get a chance to finish - the strong implication will be she expects him to be disappointed, but could be just that she's nervous. It could well be that image of Mikey messing about with the retromutagen that interrupts them.

Not even remotely

I suspect it'll be Leo who finally gets the retromutagen to Karai and saves her from danger, just so they have a nice moment where she smiles and fails to thank him properly again. I agree that I don't think it'll be the last we see of snake Karai.

Sort of... It was Leo and they did have a moment, but not quite like that. Half a point?

I would also expect it to be revealed that one of Shredder's minions is working more closely with the Kraang than previously thought - and informs the Kraang of the Retromutagen (I'm thinking either Fishface or Tigerclaw)

If they are it hasn't happened yet

Finally - though I do have my doubts on this - I'm really hoping there is some little indication that the EPF are still observing things and preparing to move again to retake New York.

Again, maybe, but no sign of it in these episodes.

So 1 1/2 points to me.

Congrats VA :)

[victory_angel]

A little more then 6 actually

Or that's how they trapped Donnie. April didn't want to be left behind again. Bebop and Rocksteady see her and realizes the girl must be important to the turtles some how or they have an innocent person to force the Turtles out of hiding. Donnie is captured trying to help her and the retromutagen is taken from him.

This is somewhat true. April is incapacitated when she is glued to that wall and Donnie is stunned unconscious. Bebop then finds the Retromutagen that Donnie had with him and takes it, but doesn't really know what it is.

And Mikey does say "Okay don't hurt 'em." Before he suggests that they talk this over. So that implies that Bebop and Rocksteady may have captured Donnie or Donnie and Raph and were arguing about maybe disposing of them or how to dispose of them now that they had the Retromutagen.

And Mikey is trying to sort of be a nice guy partially as a distraction so Leo can free their brothers and get them to safety. But also as a way of trying to connect with them as people kinda in a "I know your victims of mutation and you want to be human again. But look on the bright side you guys can have new identities."

Both Donnie and Raph were captured and locked in the van, but so were April and Casey. Rocksteady and Bebop were telling Leo and Mikey that they would kill the two humans if they didn't come out into the open.

I doubt they will get their hands on the mutagen, but they will certainly expose Donatello as the creator of the retromutagen and lead the Turtles into creating the Turtle Blimp.

As for Karai I don't think the Turtles will succeed if giving her retromutagen either, or if they do it will stabilize her mutation. But she will still have the ability to transform into a mutant.

Rocksteady and Bebop don't know the Turtles well enough to know which one made it. Particularly since all three groups had retromutagen with them. However when Mikey sees Bebop has Donnie's spray gun, he blurts out that it was retromutagen. This technically exposes Donnie as the creator of the Retromutagen, as it wouldn't take much for the rest of Foot Clan to figure out which turtle they need to target. Particularly Sockman as he knows Donnie has created retromutagen.


I also noticed you didn't tally up Bitsy's predictions.

[neatoman]

How about... Baxter becomes human again but fails miserably at something, Shredder wants to mutate him again but Hun object based on the fact that it would be pointless since he can just become human again. Besides, another mutation might damage his mind, the one thing Baxter has to offer.

Shredder asks if Hun has a better idea, he does. Shredder agrees to let Hun do whatever it is he has in store for Baxter, Hun drags Baxter off. Baxter shudders to think what he'll do to him.

Cut to that slaughterhouse set they had during Tiger Claw's return. Hun pulls out some tools and picks out an electric saw, Baxter asks if Hun will torture him but Hun says no, he says that what he has in store for Baxter is more "permanent" as he revs up the saw. Black/white ending shot of Hun with the saw, smiling.

The next time we see Baxter he's missing an arm or something.

[Tarris Vaal]

Sorry Bitsy! - though I could only find the general predictions you made rather than episode specific ones - still Dimension travel :)

How about... Baxter becomes human again but fails miserably at something, Shredder wants to mutate him again but Hun object based on the fact that it would be pointless since he can just become human again. Besides, another mutation might damage his mind, the one thing Baxter has to offer.

Shredder asks if Hun has a better idea, he does. Shredder agrees to let Hun do whatever it is he has in store for Baxter, Hun drags Baxter off. Baxter shudders to think what he'll do to him.

Cut to that slaughterhouse set they had during Tiger Claw's return. Hun pulls out some tools and picks out an electric saw, Baxter asks if Hun will torture him but Hun says no, he says that what he has in store for Baxter is more "permanent" as he revs up the saw. Black/white ending shot of Hun with the saw, smiling.

The next time we see Baxter he's missing an arm or something.

That would be .... a spectacularly dark turn of events for this show! That said, especially given its past record, I could well imagine Hun (or another minion) threatening to do something like that without it actually getting that far.

[victory_angel]

Leo doesn't seem to appreciate Donnie's efforts all that much. I mean yeah this version of Donatello is a combo of 1987 Donnie and 2k3 Donnie. So naturally Donnie does desire some acknowledgement from his bros for his efforts. Unfortunately the other three turtles seem to find Donnie's technological skills as useful *at times*, but as far as Raph and Leo are concerned Donnie's inventions are more trouble then their worth.

Being a high intellect Donnie has a hard time relating to his bros at times. Which adds to the frustration between Donnie and his bros as Donatello has to repeat himself so they understand what he's saying, or they understand it but don't see the value in what he does have to contribute to the mission.

And there was an episode where April calls out Leo and Raph (I know she was calling out all three of the Turtles, but she was being very pointed with Leo and Raph) about their lack of appreciation for their younger brothers. In that situation it was a lack of appreciation for Mikey.

As far as we know that whole debacle between Donnie and Leo has not been resolved. So perhaps now that the Kraang have been defeated for supposed good, Leo is now focused getting vengeance on the Foot Clan because as long as the Shredder lives they would never have any peace. And he feels justice needs to be served for what has been done to Karai, done to Splinter, done to himself, and their entire family.

All the other Turtles, April, and Splinter try to convince Leo that the Shredder's defeat will come, but he can't let the desire for vengeance consume him. Leo however takes their statements wrong way and accuses them of being afraid of doing what should have been done long ago.

When Donnie is captured Leo treats the whole thing like nothing of importance was lost and if Donnie was caught that was his own fault for being distracted with his delusions.

April then calls out Leo and tells them that Donnie does so much that they never seem to appreciate him for. Mikey and Casey both agree with this. Leo angrily storms off, Raph goes after Leo and explains about Donnie never forgave himself about the argument from the invasion.

The turtles, April, and Casey go off to find an rescue Donnie. Everyone finds Karai locked up which ticks Leo off, and he's even more angry when he see's what has been done to his brother. And Stockman taunting Donnie about his predicament.

(Paralleling the small moment in Return to New York where Raph is commenting how he wants to squash Stockman and Leo puts his arm around Raph's shoulders in commiseration.)

During the fight Leo hears Shredder commenting about how his anger is fueling his attacks and that's improving his fighting skills. While in the back of his mind he remembers Splinters warnings that anger is not an ally and that helps him open his eyes to the fact he is letting his anger control his actions.

Shredder sees this and taunts Leo about how his brother is useless as a warrior and that the weak were meant to be discarded. Leo however answers that Shredder should look at himself first before declaring weakness on others.

While they are escaping the Turtles and Co are hard pressed to get out. Raph sacrifices himself to his family can escape. The Turtles leave the city knowing they are going to need to go somewhere they can recover both mentally and physically from whats happened. Leo tells everyone he's sorry about what he has been doing and had taken everyone for granted. The others forgive him for it and acknowledges that Raph is counting on them.

Ending moment where Raph has been brainwashed or the brain washing process is just getting started.

[Meliwen]

^^^^^ I like that idea, that Leo and Donnie still have some unresolved tension from the season 2 finale, which is made worse by Leo's unresolved tension with the Shredder, and having that come to a head when Donnie is kidnapped and quite possibly hurt. It would be nice if Leo and Donnie could have that bit of interaction and conflict with each other.

Shredder sets a trap to get some retromutagen from the turtles by kidnapping Donnie. Stuff happens, some Leo/Shredder interaction, and eventually we come to a big fight whereupon Karai is freed and is either cured or is now able to be in full control of her mutant form without any worries of losing her mind. After Karai is in her right mind, Shredder and she have a talk/fight. What hopes Shredder may have had before of bringing Karai back to his side are gone completely once he is fully convinced of how she hates him.

Extremely incensed at these turn of events he says something like, "Hamato Yoshi, you have taken my daughter from me. Now I shall take your son!" And that's the incentive for brainwashing Raph, as opposed to just killing or physically hurting him. He believes Splinter turned Karai against him. So he decides that Splinter should see how it feels to have his son turn against him.

Karai maybe even joins up with the turtles to even the odds against the Foot Clan, since they're down by one and the Foot Clan has quite a few mutants to deal with now. (I was thinking she could potentially join the Mutanimals or go her own way to clear her head, discover who she really is and appear only sporadically, but I don't think she should be done with Shredder that quickly and I don't really see the Mutanimals hanging around too much.) Renet comes in later and helps during the Dark Raph stuff, maybe she's the one who actually undoes the brainwashing, if indeed that's how Raph goes bad. April tries, but it turns out it's too much for her/she can't do it.

[Tarris Vaal]

Well, well, well

(Though I imagine most people here know of this by now - Spoiler alert)

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=51447


That certainly ups the stakes for the comics and importantly TMNT as a franchise. The comics have always been more 'adult' aimed than the tv shows and movies, but with that said Nick's Turtles - particularly in season 3 - have been pushing the boundaries of what they could get away with in what is nominally a childrens show.

While I have personal reservations that Nick's executives would be quite this ballsy, it does pose the question of 'Could they?'.

The potential fallout and storylines that could come from a similar (though presumably less brutal) version of this occurrence could be really epic. I dont want to say too much until the news has had a few more days to sink in across the TMNT fandom (dont want to spoil it for anyone after all :) ) but to say that he is set up for a fall of this magnitude would be putting it mildly.

Could Nicktoons show follow the same way?

[Vicky82]

Well, well, well

(Though I imagine most people here know of this by now - Spoiler alert)

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=51447


That certainly ups the stakes for the comics and importantly TMNT as a franchise. The comics have always been more 'adult' aimed than the tv shows and movies, but with that said Nick's Turtles - particularly in season 3 - have been pushing the boundaries of what they could get away with in what is nominally a childrens show.

While I have personal reservations that Nick's executives would be quite this ballsy, it does pose the question of 'Could they?'.

The potential fallout and storylines that could come from a similar (though presumably less brutal) version of this occurrence could be really epic. I dont want to say too much until the news has had a few more days to sink in across the TMNT fandom (dont want to spoil it for anyone after all :) ) but to say that he is set up for a fall of this magnitude would be putting it mildly.

Could Nicktoons show follow the same way?

I was thinking this myself. If they did do it in the cartoon, it will have to done off screen and obviously not graphic.

[Ashwolf]

this wouldnt really be visually graphic but more implied graphic, anyway something nick might do if they push the boundaries enough is have during a fight, a rocket sized laser beam fires at some1 and once the beam stops, there isnt anything left but smoking dirt and cloth/metal

[victory_angel]

With the really really brutal stuff they wouldn't be animated because of kids show standards. Such as Slash and Destroy we just see Slash nabbing Donnie and Mikey, but we never see them get the beat down itself. We just see the end result of what had been done to them. Probably because the animation for it would be over budget and also the beat down in itself would likely be brutal which would be toeing the line of their TV rating. And even if they could animate it, it wouldn't be as brutal as people feel it could have been due to the rating constraints. So it was best left to the imagination of the creatives (I.E. Fanfic writers and Fan Artists.) to bring out what they feel happened.

So if they had something like this situation that's currently in the IDW we would have the turtles come across Donnie or whoever maybe in the midst of suffering or the aftermath of what had been done.

[Tarris Vaal]

Anything on screen would have to be heavily implied rather than outright shown absolutely - but the actual events themselves could still occur.


We've been guessing for ages now that Donatello was heading for a severe beating and I'd say that because of the Apritello and Retromutagen arcs the Nicktoons Donatello has more to lose than most iterations. The fact that its B+R who do this in IDW and that they are new, raw and still largely an unknown quantity in Nicktoons (and potentially far more vicious than most of Shredder's minions) adds more weight to that possibility.

I doubt we would get a complete copy of the scene, but its interesting to think that this does open the door for something similar occurring.

On a slightly different note - awesome ideas from Bitsy on the season 3 discussion thread for Casey vs the Underworld!

I think its likely too early for major Dark Raph set up yet, but I love the idea that its Casey who is coerced into giving up Donatello (either to save his family or April)

[victory_angel]

Anything on screen would have to be heavily implied rather than outright shown absolutely - but the actual events themselves could still occur.


We've been guessing for ages now that Donatello was heading for a severe beating and I'd say that because of the Apritello and Retromutagen arcs the Nicktoons Donatello has more to lose than most iterations. The fact that its B+R who do this in IDW and that they are new, raw and still largely an unknown quantity in Nicktoons (and potentially far more vicious than most of Shredder's minions) adds more weight to that possibility.

I doubt we would get a complete copy of the scene, but its interesting to think that this does open the door for something similar occurring.

On a slightly different note - awesome ideas from Bitsy on the season 3 discussion thread for Casey vs the Underworld!

I think its likely too early for major Dark Raph set up yet, but I love the idea that its Casey who is coerced into giving up Donatello (either to save his family or April)

For the Retromutagen thing I do see Bebop and Rocksteady acting largely on their own for that. They want to get back at the Shredder for what was done to them and they want the Turtles to pay for their interference.

So by knowing about the Retromutagen they know they have a means in which to be human again and that is something they can feel they can keep to themselves.

And also they can feel this would be the means of getting vengeance on the Turtles because once they have Donnie they can force him to make them the retromutagen and once they have the means into restoring themselves they could just simply eliminate Donatello as he would no longer be required. Which would be a burn to the Shredder as he wouldn't be able to cure Karai.


So instantly three birds with one stone humanity restored/revenge against the turtles/and revenge against Shredder all in one package.

While I don't think Rocksteady and Bebop would be smart enough to think that Donnie wouldn't try to double cross them or get out of his situation. I can see them beginning to wonder if April is important to one of the Turtles. Because if there is a reason for Donnie to act on his own without his brothers leave, it would be for April's safety.

Though I think Kirby is more likely to sell out any one of the Turtles for April's sake then Casey would. Casey would worry about April, but he would at least trust the turtles enough to inform them of that situation, but he is also likely to try and get her out on his own without the Turtles help.

[Tarris Vaal]

I had another thought on Casey recently - it occurs to me that since Retromutagen is now so effective it is feasible to mutate other major characters without screwing up the later plot (even as a means to further the plot)

Karai is the obvious example, but what if Casey were to be mutated? Lets take his coming foray against Shredder - if he manages to annoy Shredder enough, what is stopping Shredder from flinging Casey into the mutagen as punishment, deliberately making him a feral mutant to use against the Turtles? What if Casey turns out to be Muck man?

Because the retromutagen exists as a plot device, it isn't impossible for him to be on the receiving end because Ciro and the writers know they can restore him later down the line. If Donnie is taken out of the picture initially, the Turtles wont have a means to make any more retromutagen at first (until a rescue is completed). In the meantime you have the shock value and potentially a lot of room for character advancement, such as;

Casey trying to stay sane
Donnie trying to reach his sane mind
Donnie being forced to create stable retromutagen for Karai (and nominally Casey)
Donnie being at the receiving end of Baxter's frustration and torments, possibly alongside B+R
Donnie potentially getting through to Tigerclaw/Fishface/Rahzar that Shredder is slowly losing his mind.
April distraught at losing her two closest friends (and allowing the writers to remain ambiguous over which she is more concerned about)
Raph and Mikey trying to rescue both of them, whilst Leo contemplates sacrificing them to save Karai
Introduce Mondo Gecko as a 'scout' for the Mutanimals who helps them get into the Foot clans lair (so a minor cameo role for the Mutanimals again)
Raph being captured during a successful rescue and Donatello being seriously injured as they escape.

I could go on :)

[victory_angel]

I had another thought on Casey recently - it occurs to me that since Retromutagen is now so effective it is feasible to mutate other major characters without screwing up the later plot (even as a means to further the plot)

Karai is the obvious example, but what if Casey were to be mutated? Lets take his coming foray against Shredder - if he manages to annoy Shredder enough, what is stopping Shredder from flinging Casey into the mutagen as punishment, deliberately making him a feral mutant to use against the Turtles? What if Casey turns out to be Muck man?

Because the retromutagen exists as a plot device, it isn't impossible for him to be on the receiving end because Ciro and the writers know they can restore him later down the line. If Donnie is taken out of the picture initially, the Turtles wont have a means to make any more retromutagen at first (until a rescue is completed). In the meantime you have the shock value and potentially a lot of room for character advancement, such as;

Casey trying to stay sane
Donnie trying to reach his sane mind
Donnie being forced to create stable retromutagen for Karai (and nominally Casey)
Donnie being at the receiving end of Baxter's frustration and torments, possibly alongside B+R
Donnie potentially getting through to Tigerclaw/Fishface/Rahzar that Shredder is slowly losing his mind.
April distraught at losing her two closest friends (and allowing the writers to remain ambiguous over which she is more concerned about)
Raph and Mikey trying to rescue both of them, whilst Leo contemplates sacrificing them to save Karai
Introduce Mondo Gecko as a 'scout' for the Mutanimals who helps them get into the Foot clans lair (so a minor cameo role for the Mutanimals again)
Raph being captured during a successful rescue and Donatello being seriously injured as they escape.

I could go on :)


I don't know about the Muckman, it is possible that Casey could be Tokka. I mean Spike was able to become who he is with Raph's DNA on him, and Casey hangs out with the Turtles so he could become another Turtle mutant.

His mutation doesn't completely make him feral minded. I mean yeah in a way he is feral minded, but he's still in control of himself and who he is. Shredder then forces him to work for the Foot Clan or else.

Everyone one of the Turtles and April are distressed at this, because with the Kraang gone it would be harder to acquire mutagen. So Donnie doesn't know if he would be able to cure him.

Raph and Mikey are both upset Casey is essentially held hostage by the Shredder and when they meet him they would be forced to fight him as an enemy.

April is upset the only human friend she has is a mutant which distresses Donnie because he takes that to mean that she's chosen Casey as her suitor. He doesn't use this time as an opportunity to pursue her now that his rival is no longer there. But he is determined to cure him whatever it takes, for April's sake.

Leo is also upset about Casey but feels that finding and curing Karai is a bigger priority. This of course starts setting Donnie on edge because Leo is essentially saying he doesn't care what happens to anyone else so long as Karai is restored.

Donnie even tries to confront him about this. Leo doesn't listen or he doesn't want to listen and says that Karai is Splinter daughter and the only place she belongs is with them. With her true family. Donnie chooses to just drop the argument right there not wanting to get into it with his brother, right then at least.

When Donnie has successfully finishes Retromutagen, he has a moment where he was going to inform Leo the retromutagen was ready. But then Leo lights into him and starts asking what the ball park time line would be for the Retromutagen to be ready because Karai can't wait much longer. Donnie hesitates and then says is should be completed soon maybe a day or two at most. Leo feels that isn't soon enough, but as he has no other choice he accepts it.
April knows the retromutagen is ready and she understands completely why Donnie lied to his brother.

During evening patrol, the Turtles are jumped by Tiger Claw, Rocksteady, and Bebop and Donnie is taken prisoner. The others return to the lair to inform Splinter of what has happened. Leo is also upset because without Donnie the retromutagen wouldn't be completed.

April then comes out of the lab with the retromutagen in a spray gun and informs him that Donnie lied to him, the retromutagen was completed. This stuns Leo and he asks April about why Donnie would do that. April says it was because Leo was being too obsessed with wanting to cure Karai.

Raph agrees with April and feels Leo was taking the Karai thing too far. Leo isn't ready to admit that he took things too far just yet and demands to know what was so wrong with trying to restore Karai's humanity and returning her to where she belongs. Leo even points out that Splinter had said that it would never be home without Karai.

Splinter however says that as much as he wanted his daughter back, he didn't wish to sacrifice one of his sons for that to happen he then tells Raph and Mikey they would find their brother and bring him home.

[Vicky82]

I have a feeling this will happen due to what happened in the latest episode.

I'll put under spoilers just incase I get moaned at. :P

I assume this serum could be eaten by putting it in food or in the water supply or even injected into someone.

Shredder mind control serum is finished but he needs to test it. He doesn't want to use it on his henchman or Karai just incase it goes wrong. So he decides to capture a turtle.

The turtles are lured into a trap and fight the henchman but they get seperated and Raph is captured and taken back to Shredder's lair. He's chained up to a chair and Baxter is ready to inject Raph with the Serum

Meanwhile the other 3 turtles are reunited back at the lair but worry about Raph as they can't contact him. Splinter is also worried as he feels there is something wrong and they all leave to find Raph.

Turtles and Splinter arrive at Shredder's lair and sneak in but are rumbled and Shredder and his henchman appear. Splinter demands they release Raph but Shredder explains that his serum is finished and had to test it on someone and the results are 100% perfect. Karai comes out of the Shadows and is under the mind control serum which makes Splinter angry but then Shredder says that this is the real test subject, which then Raph comes out and everyone is shocked and angry and fight happen.

During the fight Mikey rushes to Raph to try and snap him out of it but Raph Punches him and is about to kill him when Leo jumps in and saves him they are about to fight when the Mutanimals come crashing in and help the turtles escape.

When they get to safety, the turtles and Splinter are devistated that they have lost Raph and Karai and the episode ends with the turtles and Splinter having a emotional hug with the Mutanimals watching over them.

[yellowmario27]

you guys really want Donnie to be captured and/or tortured huh?

[victory_angel]

How about Raph gets separated from the other Turtles captured and used as a test subject. While he's under the affects of the mind control he informs Shredder that Donatello was able to create retromutagen, Rocksteady and Bebop knew of it, the retromutagen does not work on Karai. His brother Mikey accidentally made a super retromutagen but doesn't know how he did it and it was all used up in the fight to restore the city.

Shredder is disappointed to learn that there had been a cure for Karai but it's useless on her. But still Donatello is a threat to their plans.

The other stage a rescue, Donnie finds where Raph is being imprisoned. Raph appears normal leaving Donnie with no idea as to what sort of danger he's in. Donnie informs the others that he has found Raph and the two of them would join them soon only for Raph to attack him from behind.

Shredder and the Foot arrive and the last thing we see is Bebop and Rocksteady holding Donatello down.

Alluding to Donnie being held down and his shell beaten by a sledge hammer by Bebop and Rocksteady

Maybe Tiger Claw starts to speak up and say there is no honor in doing this (I.E. No Honor in slaying a defenseless opponent.) But Shredder just says the weak are meant to be crushed.

Leo, Mikey, Casey, April, and Splinter arrive at the area where Donnie had contacted from but they don't see Donnie right away. Casey should be the one who comes across Donnie first.

Leo: Donnie! Raph!

Splinter: Raphael! Donatello!

April: Raph!

Mikey: Donnie! DONNIE!!! Say something, Dude!

Casey: Donnie! Yo...Donnie, Raph where are yooooh no! Uh guys....

(Everyone runs up to where Casey is standing and gasps in horror. Freeze frame and fade out)

[Tarris Vaal]

That works really nicely :) - but I have my doubts they'd take out 2 turtles in as many episodes (I'd expect Donnie to at least make a start on a cure, or for Karai to have been rescued first as a temporary 'replacement')

...Rocksteady and Bebop knew of it...

I had this idea that as neither of them are dumb brutes in this version that they would overhear Shredder discussing the Retromutagen and just quietly neglect to mention what they know - hoping to get an opportunity to get hold of the stuff later and plotting a way to steal it and escape. As they do so, Tigerclaw notices they seem to know something and spies on them, but rather than tell Shredder, his own doubts over Shredder's sanity means that he instead offers to help B+R quietly.

It'll eventually accumulate to a point when the final confrontation with Shredder eventually comes, he'll have the Turtles surrounded and seemingly on the ropes, but when he gives the instruction for his minions to finish them, they instead do nothing and walk away, leaving him to face the Turtles alone and weakened.

....(Everyone runs up to where Casey is standing and gasps in horror. Freeze frame and fade out)

Presumably the writers and producers for the Nicktoons show had plenty of fore knowledge of what was going to happen in IDW (particularly as they're prone to overlapping a bit now and again). Do you think they would have guessed the reaction to IDW 44, and deliberately written in a scene like this where the viewers see nothing and its just strongly implied from reactions that the same or worse has happened - only to find out next episode its nowhere near as bad (serious maybe but not 'that' bad) - perhaps just to leave the fans with a week or two of wild speculation?


you guys really want Donnie to be captured and/or tortured huh?

Its called the turtle torture thread for a reason :)

But in all honesty, its mostly Donatello who gets the worst end of it because he is also the one who tends to come up with the solution to get them out of whatever mess they're in. Take him out and its always a lot harder for the others to cope. Which is always more interesting :)
Plus - like it or not - the Apritello thing provides a lot of ammunition for writers to play around with when given the option to do nasty things to one of the turtles.

(and I think its a safe bet most of the regular posters in this thread are Donatello fans - we try to put focus on the others now and then dagnammit, but he's just too awesome ;) )

[Meliwen]

If we do have anyone hurt severely, I'd want it to be Raph's doing under the mind control. Whether or not Raph is responsible for something horrible happening plot wise or if he does something horrible himself (like hurting Donnie, Leo, Mikey or Splinter), I think it'd be nice to have some sort of consequence that he'll have to deal with after he's back to normal, rather than giving everyone a high three, shrugging off being controlled and then gaining nothing character wise from the entire ordeal.

[Ashwolf]

instead of raph being captured and used as test subject, during a fight w/ shredder or 1 of the factions shredder controls, donnie is targeted and raph darts in front of donnie 2 take the hit 4 him

[victory_angel]

That works really nicely :) - but I have my doubts they'd take out 2 turtles in as many episodes (I'd expect Donnie to at least make a start on a cure, or for Karai to have been rescued first as a temporary 'replacement')

Well Raph being brainwashed would work in capturing or eliminating Donnie because as brothers the Turtles trust one another. So it would make sense for one of the Turtles to over look that they are in danger if they were with a brother if it wasn't yet known the brother had been brainwashed or mind controlled. So Donnie wouldn't expect that Raph has been brainwashed if he acts normally.


I had this idea that as neither of them are dumb brutes in this version that they would overhear Shredder discussing the Retromutagen and just quietly neglect to mention what they know - hoping to get an opportunity to get hold of the stuff later and plotting a way to steal it and escape.

That would make sense, but at the same time Rocksteady and Bebop are ultimately out for themselves. Maybe they would bring up that the Turtles can make retromutagen after Stockman fails at creating Retromutagen. However we don't know if Rocksteady or Bebop know that the Retromutagen doesn't work on Karai. Or what effect the retromutagen from before had on Karai, maybe it has done something but we aren't privy as to what at this time.

So if Donnie is captured and forced to make Retromutagen he can tell the Foot Clan it doesn't work which Shredder would take to believe he was lying to buy time. Or he could make it and have it not work only for Shredder to believe he deliberately did something wrong.

[yellowmario27]

Its called the turtle torture thread for a reason :)

But in all honesty, its mostly Donatello who gets the worst end of it because he is also the one who tends to come up with the solution to get them out of whatever mess they're in. Take him out and its always a lot harder for the others to cope. Which is always more interesting :)
Plus - like it or not - the Apritello thing provides a lot of ammunition for writers to play around with when given the option to do nasty things to one of the turtles.

(and I think its a safe bet most of the regular posters in this thread are Donatello fans - we try to put focus on the others now and then dagnammit, but he's just too awesome ;) )


heh i know :) I was just wondering why everyone was strongly for DONNIE being tortured/kidnapped rather than anyone else. And you're right, he is awesome :tcool:

your points make sense~ I think if anything, Shredder would try to mutate one of the turtles, since that seems like his go to thing at the moment.

especially since he knows the cure won't work on the turtles, it would just make them regular turtles again.

[victory_angel]

As of the current episode his thing is brain washing. He doesn't want to mutate the Turtles, he wants to kill them. But he can also use them as part of his army or at least the ones he sees as more promising as brainwashed subjects.

[victory_angel]

Presumably the writers and producers for the Nicktoons show had plenty of fore knowledge of what was going to happen in IDW (particularly as they're prone to overlapping a bit now and again). Do you think they would have guessed the reaction to IDW 44, and deliberately written in a scene like this where the viewers see nothing and its just strongly implied from reactions that the same or worse has happened - only to find out next episode its nowhere near as bad (serious maybe but not 'that' bad) - perhaps just to leave the fans with a week or two of wild speculation?

Well it's likely not going to be as violent as issue #44. We will likely see somewhat of a beat down but the most brutal part we won't see beyond the initial seconds of it. Then Donnie's 3/4 dead carcass either would be something the characters are seeing off screen (Kinda like we just see Crognard jump into that demon horde) we just see the Turtles react to it, but we don't officially see what they are reacting too. And even if we did see a
battered Donnie it would be the battered Turtle model they use for the Turtles have suffered a major beating.

But likelyhood they would just have the Turtles reacting to the sight of Donnie (Leaving the actual visual up to the viewers imagination) and then next episode we would have everyone else sitting in the lair. Maybe Mikey crying while being comforted by Leo. April is also beside herself with grief. Casey is probably pacing around looking like he wants to punch something. Leo isn't really saying anything to anyone, he's more or less trying to hold himself together for everyone else. Then Splinter comes out and says he's done what he can for Donatello at this time. So we'd just see Donnie sleeping and covered in bandages.

If we do have anyone hurt severely, I'd want it to be Raph's doing under the mind control. Whether or not Raph is responsible for something horrible happening plot wise or if he does something horrible himself (like hurting Donnie, Leo, Mikey or Splinter), I think it'd be nice to have some sort of consequence that he'll have to deal with after he's back to normal, rather than giving everyone a high three, shrugging off being controlled and then gaining nothing character wise from the entire ordeal.

I was thinking that if an issue #44 situation like I described on a earlier post does occur that it's implied that Raph was the one that would be or did brutally injure Donnie. Maybe have Donnie in that moment trying to reach Raph such as:

Donnie: Raph! Raph, don't do this! It's me...your brother!

Raph may have his moments where he hurts Mikey and Leo as well. Then after the mind control serum is no longer active, Raph remembers what he's done and is horrified wishing it was just a nightmare. But much like City Fall after they got Leo back, Leo still had problems returning mentally and emotionally to his family. So Raph might feel he doesn't belong any longer or he can't be trusted.

[Tarris Vaal]

I was thinking more that because the writers know that turtles fans would already be aware of what happened in IDW, that they would deliberately use it to wrong foot us :)

Thinking about it, I could see that as we have the unresolved issue (on screen at least) of Donatello's guilt for fighting with Leo in Invasion it might lead to something quite different. Imagine for example;


Raph is secretly brainwashed using the serum. As Shredder is aware the Turtles are able to use retromutagen, he wishes to strike them down. An early attempt to brainwash all of them fails, so instead he resolves to destroy them.

He's fought Leo specifically 3 times now and would be aware of him as leader and a skilled fighter more than any of the others. He decides as Leo is the 'favoured son' he needs to die first, to leave the Turtles leaderless and to strike at Hamato Yoshi by removing his eldest.

In the meantime, Donnie has had some suspicions about Raph and brings them to Leo's attention, but Leo dismisses him - thinking Raph has actually got his temper under control more recently, and that Donnie is perhaps just a little bitter because Raph has once again pointed out recently his total lack of chance romantically with April. They have a plan to free Karai from the Foot and although Donnie has his doubts, Leo asks for Donnie to trust his judgement. Remembering Invasion, Donnie reluctantly agrees.

Raph is forced to lead Leo into a trap during the rescue attempt - a trap that is a lot as Donnie warned Leo might happen. Donnie and Mikey are distracted fighting elsewhere, and instead of pairing with Leo, Raph betrays him and leads him into B+Rs hands. We then get an implied scene that looks a lot like its going to turn into IDW 44.

Instead of Donatello suffering the severe beating, its Leo who is almost killed. However, although its looks like its going to be the hammer blow it was in IDW, Donatello manages to get there in time. He deflects the hit intended for Leo and allows Leo chance to escape. Mikey and Leo start fending off B+R.

Raph then sees April close by fighting footbots and goes after her. Donnie intervenes and warns him off but Raph is unable to stop himself and attacks Donatello in front of everyone, and thats when we get the severe injury. Mikey and Leo manage to get Donatello to safety, and the three of them, April and Casey escape the trap.


That way, it foreshadows IDW 44 but avoids it last minute. Donatello still gets injured and knocked out of the immediate fight, but isn't on the verge of death (instead we get the groundwork for Raph to be guilt ridden for what he's done and possibly feel he has to stay with the Foot even after the serum has worn off). We touch on the guilt left at Invasion, and have a sprinkling of apritello as the writers like to do :)


As a side note - is it fair to say anyone who reads this thread already knows what happens in IDW 44? Do I still need to use spoiler alerts?

[victory_angel]

As a side note - is it fair to say anyone who reads this thread already knows what happens in IDW 44? Do I still need to use spoiler alerts?

Kinda I mean yeah there are people here who don't really following the comics so spoiling about Donnie's fate is going irk some people.

Fortunately there is a leaked image from the next issue that indicates that Donnie's isn't actually dead, he's in a coma and has to be kept on life support.

So far on the injury scale there seems to be a pattern with the current fight.
We've had minor injury (all turtles)

Major injury (Mikey twice, Donnie)

Severe injury (Leo)

We sort of had a near death experience.

But we haven't had self-sacrifice culminating into a near death experience.

We had Leo sacrificing himself twice to save his family and the city. The first time Donnie seems to recognize what Leo intended to do as his statement of "Whoa Leo, don't tell me you're thinking what I think your thinking!" can be interpreted as "Please tell me it hasn't come to this? Not yet..."

All the other times there has been a systematic pattern to how each of the Turtles are captured/wounded/ incapacitated. In Slash and Destroy, Donnie and Mikey are both picked off systematically by Slash.

Donnie is picked first because he's the brains of the team, and he's considered the weakest fighter by their enemies. Raph even calls him on it at times. And the mentality of people like the Foot/Triceratons is that the weak are meant to be crushed.

Mikey was chosen next because he's the one with the most raw talent as a warrior, but he doesn't focus so it's often wasted. And his childishness enabled him to fall into that obvious trap.

Leonardo was attacked last because he's Raph's chief offender in Slashes mind. And he's the leader of the team, fighting a leader isn't usually a first fight it's the prize fight. By defeating and eliminating his followers one breaks the moral of the leader so that his attacks are fueled by anger and he doesn't think clearly regarding his strikes because he is to focused on avenging his fallen comrades. But also so he has no one to aid him in battle.

(This is ultimately what would aid in the defeat of the Shredder but that would come much later.)

Buried secrets was also a systematic take down,

Mikey was taken out first because he knew Mom Thing wasn't what she was claiming to be

Donnie because he had stumbled on to something that Mom Thing didn't want reveled.

Leo because he came down because he realized the Donnie he thought he was talking to was a fake so he needed to be taken out before he could inform Raph.

Raph was attacked because he was one of the only people standing between Mom Thing and April.

So with Dark Raph I see things being systematic as well.

Shredder has a "the weak are supposed to be crushed" mentality which is indicated when he tells Hun that success should be rewarded, and then glances back at Rahzar and Fishface and says "And failure should be punished."

So with the mind control syrum, after Stockman fails at creating a retromutagen for Karai. Shredder learns from rocksteady and bebop that the Turtles have created Retromutagen.

He then orders them to bring him the Turtle who made the Retromutagen. When Rahzar or Tiger Claw points out the Turtle wouldn't create it willingly, Shredder says he has a way of getting them to cooperate.

Rocksteady and Bebop are sent out to apprehend the Turtle who can create retro-mutagen. Unfortunately beyond names they don't know one turtle from the other. So they figure if they grab one Turtle because they have a 25% chance of being right, and if they grab the wrong Turtle he can be forced into leading them to the right one.

Raph in the mean time gets frustrated with his brothers once again so he goes top side where he nabbed by the gruesome twosome. Unfortunately he's not the one who was able to make Retro mutagen. Shredder has Stockman inject him with the mind control serum. Raph fights it but it quickly takes effect, he tells Shredder that his brother Donatello has been able to create Retromutagen, the retromutagen doesn't work on Karai as they have tried that before.

He doesn't tell Shredder that Mikey had created an additive to make the mutagen more powerful because that was more or less just a lucky fluke. With the help of Raph, Foot mutants find the lair and attack it. Not to kill the turtles but to capture them so Splinter can watch as his sons all become mind slaves of the Shredder. The mind control serum is added to the water supply so all of New York (including April's father) April and Casey are with the Turtles, Casey betrays them because he had gotten himself some water from the sink not knowing the water supply was contaminated with the mind control syrum.

Raph and Leo duke it out in the fight. During the battle when Raph is about to deliver a killing blow to Leo. Donnie pushes Leo out of the way and takes the blow for him. Raph is stunned that Donnie would do such as thing but he quickly gets over it. Leo in the mean time helps Donnie up. And the group escapes while the clan destroys the lair. Rahzar or Fishface wants to go after them, but Raph says to let them run for now. He already knows where their headed.

Tigerclaw begins to have his apprehensions about the Shredder and wonders if he's serving the right team. Shredder in the mean time takes the abandoned TCRI building as his new seat of power.

Then later when Donnie is captured it would be during a time where he is beginning to doubt Raph's loyalty despite being mind controlled. So they manage to capture Donatello when the farm house is attacked by the Foot Clan. On the return to the city Donnie tries to reach Casey but it doesn't work. Donnie is brought before the Shredder. Bebop holds down Donnie so Raph can slay his brother. Tiger Claw speaks up and says there is no honor in slaying a defenseless person, he should at least have the honor of being able to defend himself even if it does him very little.

In a high stakes bluff (to buy time) Donnie says he's developed a retromutagen that can restore Karai. And if they kill him, Karai will be a mutant forever. Shredder mulls it over and agrees let Donnie live. However he must let Stockman observe and he would be kept under constant surveillance. And if this is a trick he would live long enough to regret it.

Donnie creates the retromutagen without the key ingredient,it also enables him to assess the equipment used for mind control serum. Stockman wastes not time in harassing in the time it takes to make the Retromutagen. Tiger Claw in the mean time does stand guard at Donnie's cell. Donnie begins to inquire about how he came to associate himself with the Foot, how did he become a mutant ect. At first Tiger Claw isn't interested in chit chatting, but he slowly begins to warm up.

Donnie when the Retromutagen is completed Shredder wants to test it so he decides to try it out on Fishface because he's expendable. Fishface is double mutated into Armagon and Shredder at once accuses Donatello of double crossing him.

[miru]

The Real Irma:

- After a series of nightmares, Mike is convinced there is a real Irma, and risks going back to Dimension X to find her.
- When he goes in, cue a Beatdown by Traag, Granitory, and Snakeweed before Irma is found.

[Meliwen]

I was thinking that if an issue #44 situation like I described on a earlier post does occur that it's implied that Raph was the one that would be or did brutally injure Donnie. Maybe have Donnie in that moment trying to reach Raph such as:

Donnie: Raph! Raph, don't do this! It's me...your brother!

Raph may have his moments where he hurts Mikey and Leo as well. Then after the mind control serum is no longer active, Raph remembers what he's done and is horrified wishing it was just a nightmare. But much like City Fall after they got Leo back, Leo still had problems returning mentally and emotionally to his family. So Raph might feel he doesn't belong any longer or he can't be trusted.
I misread your earlier post and thought you wanted Bebop and Rocksteady to be responsible for hurting Donnie again, my bad! Also Donnie begging for Raph not to do it would just make it even worse, or better, depending on your view. :P And I love that last bit, I would love to see something like that come out of the Dark Raph arc.

[victory_angel]

There are numerous jabs in show about Donnie being a weaker fighter then everyone else. Some of it is jabs at his weapon such as Rockwell Monkey saying "Ah yes...with that little stick of yours." And this recent episode he was fighting Fishface one one one. Fishface is considered the weakest of Shredder's mutants and Donnie has beaten him twice.


Maybe one situation isn't so much Donnie gets his shell beaten, but more that he tries to take matters into his own hands and tries to make a deal with the Foot in order to gain Raph back. Or maybe Raph tells Shredder that Donnie's weakness is April. Threaten her and he'll do what ever they tell him to do.

April is abducted, Casey is wounded trying to help her. And all they need to do is bring the Retromutagen, Donnie (who has conveniently made a retromutagen that he hopes would be able to restore Karai) wants to go after April to save her. Leo however tells his brother that he understands his brothers desires to save April but she wouldn't want him to put himself at risk for her. They will go after her when they have a plan but they need to concern themselves with how to stop the mind control serum. And return Raph to himself.

Donnie slips away from his brothers and arrives at the Shredder's lair. He tells Shredder he has the Retromutagen and is willing to release it in exchange for April. Shredder agrees to this...however he doesn't agree to let Donnie leave alive.

As the Shredder has no qualms about what happens to April, he puts her in the same cell with Karai. Karai naturally attacks the girl however April is able to restore Karai's mind all but temporarily before the two of them are placed in separate containment chambers. Shredder has Donnie over powered by Rahzar and Fishface who take him to Stockman's lab. The masked man warns Donnie that if this retromutagen is fake then the girl would suffer the consequences. He then demonstrates by having some of the air get sucked out of April's containment chamber, indicated Donnie would be forced to watch as the girl he loves dies a slow death of suffocation.

Leo in the meantime finds Donnie is missing and realizes that he must have gone after April. So Leo, Mikey, and Splinter rush to the Shredders lair. Karai is sprayed with a gold-orange mist she remains a snake but her mental faculties are restored.

Shredder is angered and has Bebop and Rocksteady punish Donnie by beating him all the while be the air in April's containment chamber starts to slowly get sucked out of it. Karai screams at the Shredder to stop this.

When Donnie is beaten to the point where he's unable to put up much of a struggle Shredder has Raph come up and put his brother to death. Tiger Claw sees folly in this as there is no honor in slaying someone who was defenseless. Shredder begs to differ and orders the execution. The other turtles intervene Splinter takes on Shredder, Leo takes on Raph and Tiger Claw. Mikey knocks both Fishface and Rahzar aside and decides to free April and bring her to safety first since her situation is more serious.

Donnie struggles to his feet he is bullrushed by Rocksteady cracking Donnie's shell as April and Mikey look on in horror and Leo is distracted by the fact his brother is wounded leaving him open for a strike from Raph. Karai breaks out of her containment calling Rocksteady a coward. She unknowingly knocks fishface into the mutagen tank double mutating him into Aramagon. Leo uses the distraction to gather up his wounded brother and leave for safety.

[Tarris Vaal]

Maybe one situation isn't so much Donnie gets his shell beaten, but more that he tries to take matters into his own hands and tries to make a deal with the Foot in order to gain Raph back. Or maybe Raph tells Shredder that Donnie's weakness is April. Threaten her and he'll do what ever they tell him to do.

As I understand it, this is similar to what happened in IDW - that Donnie arranged a makeshift alliance with the Foot against the Kraang without the immediate agreement from his brothers or Splinter.

He's gone off and done his own thing once before without any warning (and again motivated by April).

hmm..

I would suspect Shredder would try and brainwash all the Turtles at once rather than pick them off one at a time. It just seems more efficient (and in line with his impatient trait)

I think there would be a plot to draw the Turtles out, probably using Hun as bait in a plot involving the chemical factory. Maybe deliberately leak information that they are intending on leaking the serum into the city water supply or something along those lines.

Instead, its a trap to try and catch them all and control them. During the fight, there is lots of foreshadowing and near misses but none of the Turtles actually get hit. However, during the fight, Casey takes on Hun directly. Hun gets him into a lock and tells him he had a batch made up specially with him in mind - after all the trouble he caused last time. Casey gets attacked by the Serum and mind controlled.

Later, Casey is struggling to fight the control, but ultimately fails and is coerced into leading April into a trap by Shredder. Shredder expects all the Turtles to follow to rescue her. Casey is made to attack the Turtles and deliver the message. The Turtles have to knock him out and they discover he was attacked by the serum. Donatello determines that the serum needs regular doses or it will eventually wear off.

They bring Casey to the lair to recover whilst trying to figure out what to do. Donnie is extremely worried for April, whilst Leo and Raph advise caution. Raph visits Donnie in his lab when he remembers its likely Donnie will try and go on his own. Donnie has already gone and Raph chases after him alone.

Donnie gets to the meeting point to find April there with Shredder, B+R and Tigerclaw. He has a vial of retromutagen with him he hopes to offer up in exchange for April.

Shredder is intrigued, but tells him he was a fool to expect to get away with this alone. Not wishing to risk the vial, he hands April over to him and keeps his minions back a moment. April however is mind controlled (though clearly struggling to break it). She warns Donnie to get out even as she attacks him. He refuses to leave and Shredder's minions move in to take Donnie down.

Raph makes an epic entrance, beating off the initial assault and warning Donnie to get out with April while he holds off the Foot. Shredder tells him he's a fool and Raph backtalks him - challenging him to a fight.

By this point, Mikey and Leo have also figured out whats happened and are racing to catch up. They are intercepted by Karai - mind controlled - and she keeps them back even as Leo and Mikey try to reason with her.

Shredder wont demean himself with Raph's challenge and sends in the minions. Raph's anger quickly reaches boiling point and he beats through them all, and unlike Leo actually manages to block Shredder's flanking attack. Shredder is impressed, and tells him he'll make a worthy addition - as Baxter hits Raph with the serum from a dart gun.

Donnie and April manage to escape, and Donnie goes back in to help the others. April is largely recovered and tells him she can sense Karai. Pointing him in the right direction, Donnie runs to help. Leo and Mikey are holding their own, but struggling to break past her. Donnie's arrival tips the odds and Karai is just about subdued. Leo is furious, and even Mikey is angry, but hugs Donnie anyway - glad he's alive.

They ask where's Raph.

Raph appears, Shredder emerging from the shadows from behind him. Shredder gives the instruction and Raph attacks. Flinging a sai at Donatello. Mikey intervenes and takes the hit.

Leo angrily tells Donnie to get Mikey out as they retreat. Raph is about to launch into the assault when April reappears, and throws them off with a psychic attack (something Shredder eagerly notes).

They escape and are forced to withdraw from the lair once again as Raph has been compromised.



Sorry that line of thought quickly got out of hand :)

[Tarris Vaal]

Sorry to double post, but I wanted to write this down before I forgot it!

Had a thought about Hun -

Long term, I was thinking how cool it would be for Hun to slowly start to usurp Shredder as head of New York's criminal element.

My idea was, given that he has wormed his way into taking control of Shredder's mind serum production that he would quietly be plotting to use this as a means to take over the Foot (or at least cripple it). He would start by annoying Baxter Stockman - who would be presumably in charge of the formula - and engineering the situation where he would have to meet with Baxter to discuss how to increase production. During the meeting, the Purple Dragons would hold him down as Hun injects the serum into Baxter, taking control of him.

With Baxter open to suggestions, Hun would use him to modify the formula, allowing only Hun access to an antidote and allowing Hun to not only neutralise the formula Shredder has, but to create another one that could be used on Shredder's minions.

Quietly Hun ambushes Rahzar and Fishface - intending to take control of them. Rahzar is injected, but his unusual nature makes him immune. Fishface however betrays Rahzar, seeing an opportunity to join with Hun willingly against Shredder. Rahzar is literally kicked off a precipice deep underground and presumed dead. Fishface blames the Turtles for his defeat when explaining to Shredder.

This incident forces B+R to take more of a central role as primary minions - particularly as Tigerclaw begins to object to use of the serum on Karai. During Karai's lucid moments, Tigerclaw even suggests he may be willing to help her escape as he can no longer stomach Shredder's methods. Karai doesnt trust him, but hasnt much choice either.

During Shredders attempt to capture the Turtles and mind control them (see idea above), Tigerclaw allows for Karai's escape with Leo/Donnie/Mikey - surprising all three of them. He literally just walks away.

B+R are attacked by Hun during the fight, who is hoping to use the confusion to inject them while Shredder is distracted. It goes wrong however when we realise that Baxter has plans of his own and deliberately made the solution so he would be almost immune to it. He has informed Shredder who has allowed Hun to get this far.

Shredder is.... disappointed with Hun and has Raph fling him into the mutagen alongside Fishface. The two combine, resulting in a shark like creature Shredder immediately has locked away 'for study'.



At least that was the original plan, but now I look at it, it mutates Hun far too early on, so presume instead to move this to a much later point (perhaps during the Turtles attempt to confront Raph and free him from the mind control)

[victory_angel]

Ciro has stated one time in an early interview that that Leo, Donnie, and Raph are to be depicted similarly to Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. Which is sort of implied through Leo's love of Space Heros. I.E. Leo idolizes Captain Ryan (Captain Kirk), The image card for Donnie on Leo's t-phone is Dr. Mindstrong (Mr. Spock) And Raph is McCoy as Leo does at one time call Raph Grundch (McCoy).

Maybe there is more coming out of that scenario. For example in Wrath of Khan there is a moment where Spock saves the enterprise from certain destruction at the cost of his own life.

We've already had Leo sacrifice himself so his brothers can get away and of course he's alright after that.

A great plot for this would be next season when the Turtles are dealing with the Fugatoid and all that stuff. Perhaps the Fugatoid suggests a way to defeat the Kraang or Triceratons once and for all unfortunately doing this task is dangerous and by Dangerous he means than amount to suicide. But it's their only option. Donnie volunteers to do this task. When the Turtles are rejoicing their victory Donnie returns to the group being supported by the fugatoid.

Raph: I don't know what you did, Donnie. But you saved us.

Donnie grins and gives a thumbs up before his eyes roll back and he falls into a dead faint. All others gasp in concern.

Mikey: Donnie!!

Fade to still frame

[victory_angel]

In the recent episode, Shredder tells Stockman that he wants him to develop a cure for Karai soon. However we all know that Stockman is going to fail at this leading into Shredder targeting Donnie.

However maybe Donnie choose to take matters into his own hands about Karai. So lets say the Turtles discover or are informed that Karai is in the Shredder's possession.

Or maybe the they overhear that Stockman is trying to develop retromutagen. So they put two and two together and realizes that Shredder must have Karai.
(extra points if it's Mikey who suggests that maybe they have Karai.)

Donnie sees April and Casey together at one point and becomes upset because he thinks April has chosen Casey. And Leo is getting irritated or pushy with him because of the unresolved tension between them and his own personal frustrations.

When Donnie realizes he has crafted a Retromutagen that could cure Karai. He at first wants to tell everyone he has a retromutagen that can restore her...but then he thinks about what he saw with Casey and April. Donnie is well aware that Leo is in love with Karai. So maybe Donnie feels that just because his dreams about being with April are just that...dreams. But Leo's dreams about being with Karai don't need be the same.

So he leaves the lair and journey's to the Shredder's lair on his own. Shredder is impressed he had the guts to do this, or rather the foolishness to do so.
Donnie tells Shredder that he knows that a cure for Karai is needed and he happens to have one.

Shredder knows Donnie would not offer this without something in return. Donnie tells Shredder that he doesn't want his brothers or father involved in whatever he is planning to do with the memory serum.

Shredder agrees to this but double crosses Donnie saying that he was far too trusting and nothing was said about letting him leave alive.

[Tarris Vaal]

I suspect it'll be either B+R who blurt out they have Karai or Fishface dropping them information (maybe even Hun, hoping to manipulate them into a fight)

Donnie is well aware that Leo is in love with Karai. So maybe Donnie feels that just because his dreams about being with April are just that...dreams. But Leo's dreams about being with Karai don't need be the same.

I actually really like the idea that Donnie might go out of his way to help Leo in this. Particularly if this was counter balanced by Leo planning to mislead the others so he could mount a solo rescue without endangering them.

If both snuck out for a similar mission without being aware of the other, and end up meeting halfway through their plan I think it would provide some good comic moments to lighten the tension - and could be made more serious if Raph and Mikey found out and had also followed them.


Shredder knows Donnie would not offer this without something in return. Donnie tells Shredder that he doesn't want his brothers or father involved in whatever he is planning to do with the memory serum.

Though I could imagine Mikey revealing they know about the serum accidentally, I dont know if its the kind of mistake Donnie would make. I would think he would probably offer a cure for Karai in exchange for something else - possibly her freedom (though he cant expect Shredder to actually allow that). Maybe, given that they know Karai's mental state is deteriorating, merely the act of giving Shredder the cure is enough, simply hoping he would use it to save her (something both Shredder and the Turtles want)

[victory_angel]

I suspect it'll be either B+R who blurt out they have Karai or Fishface dropping them information (maybe even Hun, hoping to manipulate them into a fight)

Yeah BB & RS or FF are likely to reveal that the Shredder has Karai to lead the Turtles into a trap in order to acquire Retromutagen for themselves. After all in the opening theme song sequence when we see Bebop and Rocksteady slamming into the Party Wagon while Donnie and Leo are shown in the front seat.

I can certainly imagine that once it becomes apparent that Bebop and Rocksteady or the Foot Clan in general know of the Retromutagen and Donnie's ability to make it. Leo would want to have Donnie placed with him or Raph (at least until Raph is placed under the mind control serum) on missions so that way he has some reliable means of preventing his brother from being captured or killed by the Foot Clan and still enabling Donnie to particpate during the missions.

However I can see Leo maybe getting overly protective and telling Donnie he would have to stay home during patrol and missions for his own safety. I could say it could be extra points in having Splinter tell Leo not to allow Donatello to go with them because of the danger he would be in every time he left the lair. But that would be just rehashing the plot where Splinter had all the Turtles stay in the lair and train for their own protection.

So I think maybe when Leo starts telling Donnie that he can't go on missions/patrol with them. He tries to be understanding about how Donnie is taking it.

Leo: Look I understand, but we can't have Shredder going after you because he believes the retromutagen can restore Karai. We've tried that before and it didn't work because her mutation wasn't normal.

Maybe Leo also tells April she needs to stay away from the lair for that same reason as her DNA is key to making Retromutagen. However I can see Splinter taking Leo aside and saying that while his reasons for doing this are in the right place, the action shows a lack of faith or trust in his brother and brothers abilities and that could have negative consequences.

Donnie reluctantly goes along with being left in the lair for short time. Unfortunately he becomes increasingly irritated with Leo's over protectiveness.

In The Pig and The Rino Bebop calls April Donnie's ex-girlfriend in that one scene where he is capturing the two of them at the cleaners. So maybe he tells Rocksteady that Donatello has a lady friend and maybe he would be willing to exchange a little retromutagen in exchange for her. So the two of them capture her...maybe Casey or have her as informant.

Casey goes to the Turtles and informs them about what happened. Leo stages a rescue mission and once again Donnie is left at the lair. Casey asks what was so special about the Retromutagen anyway after all the Foot have a science guy on their team as well, so shouldn't they be able to replicate it. Donnie then says it's not that simple...there is a key component to the Retromutagen that only he and April knew about.

Before Casey can ask what sort of component it was Donnie receives a call on his phone telling him to that his brothers have been taken down and if he doesn't arrive within the next hour with Retromutagen they would kill his brothers and the girl. On the way to aid his brothers, Donnie tells Casey that April's DNA is the key to making the Retromutagen. This makes Casey upset but before they can say more they arrive at the location where Bebop and Rocksteady are keeping his brothers and April.

Rocksteady: Ah good you bring retromutagen. So you give me container, I give back brothers and girl....yes?

Donnie: Release my family first, then the retromutagen is yours.

Rocksteady: I fall for that at Coney Island...you give me the retromutagen now or family will suffer the consequence.

[victory_angel]

The Shredder has been defeated for the time being, however his defeat also exposes the existence of the Turtles and the Mutanimals or mutants in general to the general public of New York.


Episode or season 4 begins with a public service address from the White House. We then get a shot of Bishop introducing himself and then declaring all mutants as Public Enemy #1 . As he speaks about how mutants are a threat he shows images of the Turtles, the Foot Mutants.
Maybe a recording of people who had been involved in attacks by mutants like the utility worker who was attacked by Leatherhead and the Squirrlanoids giving account of what has taken place.
Bishop then says he is sending in a man known as Dirk Savage to hunt down and apprehend every mutant starting with New York. If a mutant is sighted people must do their duty as citizens of the city and apprehend them.

Mikey: Does this guy feel like an evil version of Donnie to you, or is that just me?

Donnie has so few people he can relate to. He doesn't lord his intelligence over his brothers or at least doesn't do that intentionally. But he's so smart that his brothers feel stupid in comparison and other times in their mind it feels like he assumes he's better then them because of his intelligence.

Raph and to some extent Leo have this mindset.

Other people are impressed by what Donnie is capable of and while they don't entirely understand it they do accept that is what he has contribute to the team and mission.

April, Mikey, Casey, Splinter, and to an extent Leo.

Rockwell is the first person Donnie has had an even leveled playing field. And while they are friends they are also rivals on an intellectual level. (kinda like Harold in the IDW Comics)

Fugatoid (Confirmed and will be introduced in time) in all incarnations he's appeared in Donnie's had a good relationship with him. And I don't see that changing in this incarnation. If anything Donnie may think of him as a teacher or a mentor.

Now it comes to people who are evil or corrupt geniuses. Donnie obviously is aware that people like them do exist after all we've had Stockman and Falco. However both of those guys give off an impression that they think they are more intelligent then they actually are.

If Donnie were to have a villain that he could go toe to toe with as an equal then that would be Bishop. However Bishop isn't really a bad guy, he has a very skewed perception on things. And he also use scientific research as a form of torture as well as an excuse to perform torture. And since non-humans are not considered people to him...he has no qualms about what happens or to whom.

[Tarris Vaal]

Well running on this theory - there is the concept of dualism between two characters - that there are characters with similar but distinctly different traits and personalities who operate as 'primary rivals'

Shredder and Splinter is a good example - and you can see from Spirit quest how many of the villains pair up easily (Bradford/Mikey, Fishface/Raph)

Casey now has Hun, and April had Karai (though she shared that rivalry with Leo).

Leo is set up as being paired with Shredder - though its more of the 'final boss' than a long term rival/evil mirror.

I think you're right, that Donnie doesn't really have someone like that. Spirit quest set him up with Tigerclaw - but Tigerclaw is more of a shared villain between all the turtles than being one Turtle's specifically. B+R, Stockman, the Kraang and most other general mutants are much the same.

I'd think Bishop would make a good 'dark mirror' to both Donnie and Leo. A strategist, highly intelligent, ruthless, cunning and in a leadership position - something they both have to a degree. He shares aspects of both of them, and I think they can use a character like that to mirror the darker potential of both Donnie and Leo quite comfortably.

Especially if Shredder were to be largely defeated I think Leo especially would be riding on a high and potentially at risk of falling into arrogance. Bishop would be needed to present that.

[victory_angel]

With the Turtles more on the public radar they have to be more cautious when it comes to patrols. One patrol they are spotted by an EPF helicopter, in a effort to evade Leo tells everyone to scatter and meet up at the lair figuring they were less likely to be captured if the chopper has no idea which target to go after. The four of them split off in different directions however the chopper fires it's net launcher and catches Donnie and flies off with him.

Leo arrives at the lair while Mikey and Raph arrive not long after. Leo starts to become concerned after Donnie doesn't return and he suspects Donnie was taken captive.

Donnie wakes up in a glass panel cell. Bishop appears him asks him about his involvement in the alien invasions. Don explains that he was trying to prevent the invasion.

Bishop asks the same questions again, Donnie says he already answered. Bishop says he didn't believe Donnie's answer and he would continue to ask until Donnie told him the truth. Donnie insists he did tell him the truth. Bishop leaves the room and says he would be wise to admit his guilt.

[Tarris Vaal]

Rather than Donnie would this work better if Mikey were captured? Especially with Raph due for the Dark Raph arc, Mikey would currently be the only Turtle to not have been captured at some point (at least not independently)

Leo is captured in Follow the leader
Donnie manages to lock himself into a cell in Operation Breakout (not much I know, but considering we all agree his retromutagen puts him as extremely likely to be captured as part of the Dark Raph arc...)
Raph is due to presumably get captured shortly
April is captured fairly regularly
Casey manages to get caught in Rats and Men
Even Splinter manages to be get caught in Return to New York!

Mikey is conspicuously absent on that list :)

Plus I like the idea that as Mikey acts as the natural foil to Donatello, he would also act as a natural annoyance for a villain who operates in a similar way. If Bishop does turn out like a dark mirror of Donnie/Leo, Mikey acts as a great way of countering him.

Following the example you gave, imagine Mikey being the one caught in the glass cage with Bishop demanding confession.

[victory_angel]

That's all a good idea and like Donnie he would say the truth which is they were preventing the invasion from happening.

But what if they were all captured and they were all placed in separate cells sparced away from eachother so they don't entirely know that their brothers are prisoners too. Either that or their cells are next to or adjacent to each other so they can communicate with one another through a wall. I can see an allegory for the Nazi concentration camps or the Japanese internment camps in Bishops Prison bunker.

Leo and Donnie would naturally say the only involvement they had in the invasion was in preventing it.

Mikey: You've got the wrong mutant, I wasn't involved in the Kraang invasion.

and Raph would be angrily saying: You better hope this window is unbreakable, because when I get out of here I will smack the black off your jacket.

When Bishop sees them again that he tells them he's taking them to the next level of interrogation. Which is strapping Mikey down for vivisection and telling Mikey he won't administer anesthetic as it would effect his research.

Mikey then screams and says "Okay Okay, I'll confess." I ate Raph's tuna and marmalade pizza. I let Donnie take the heat when I did this....Ect."

[victory_angel]

I know people have been wanting the Good Genes arc to happen to anyone else but Donnie. I understand the reasoning, but the point of the story was that the Turtles need Donnie and it is even stated that if it happened to anyone else they would have looked to Donatello for a cure.

So have a situation where Dirk Savage is wanting to cause a demonstration as to how dangerous Mutants can be. So a Man-made mutagen is poured into the sewers and soon the city is crawling with mutant rats, bugs, and such.

Then whenever any of these creatures are spotted Dirk Savage captures them and implied that he destroys them. Bishop isn't happy about what Savage has done, particularly when it's revealed that the mutants Dirk Created are mutation carriers (i.e. kinda like the Zombie plague, you get bitten or stung by a mutant, you become one)

Shredder in the mean time (Still around despite his defeat) is rounding up these out-break mutants and wanting them controlled as his mutant soldiers.

Donnie finds a smaller species of these outbreak mutants which he studies. He has a hard time figuring it out other then the DNA of the creature being mutated. But whatever caused the mutation was different from the Kraang Mutagen. He decides he's going to have to get Dr. Rockwell in on this. Due to the outbreak one or all of the other Turtles has to accompany Donnie to the lair of the mutanimals, just in case they have any encounters.

On one such occasion Donnie is traveling back to the lair with Leo. When they are attacked by a group of outbreak mutants. Leo calls Raph and Mikey for back up and the others arrive to help as do the mutanimals. During the fight Donnie gets a gash on the arm or leg by one of them. Nothing happens because of it as far as they know. And everyone returns home none-the-wiser.

Next episode it's revealed Donnie is down with a cold. Leo mentions that Donnie has been complaining about the scratch he had received was bothering him. And they have checked it numerous times but there is no sign of infection but there is no sign that it's healing either. (as there talking focus on Donnie feverishly tossing in his bed as reddish or darkened lines extend from the bandaged area on his arm or leg.) April suggests they contact Rockwell about this just in-case. Just as they are leaving for patrol they hear Donnie scream. Leo and the others look at one another in concern and are about to go see whats wrong as the door to Donnie's bedroom flies off its hinges and a feral monster turtle stalks out. The first reaction from the turtles and Casey are to draw weapons and attack, but April gets the feeling the Creature isn't wanting to fight them.
It is chased out of the lair. Raph wants to go finish that thing off, but Mikey stops him saying that it's gone and thats what matters.

Leo notices Donnie is missing and April says she got the feeling that whatever the creature was it didn't want to fight them it was more scared and confused about what it had become. Splinter nods and says that creature and Donatello could very well be one and the same. Leo sends Raph and Mikey out to look for the creature, but don't hurt him. And be on the look out as they didn't want the Shredder to find him.

Leo has April and Casey go with him to talk to the Mutanimals. Rockwell examines the bandages that Donnie had when the transformation occurred and tells Leo that the mutagen that was causing the outbreak was at war with Donnie's already mutated DNA. April then surmises the illness Donnie was suffering from was a catalyst for the Out Break mutagen to take over Donatello's body. Rockwell agrees and says it's worse, as the Out Break mutagen continues to take control of their brother, he would slowly lose his mind within that form until the Donatello they know would be lost forever. Leo then remembers Karai when she had said she wanted them to find her so she could tell them all good-bye. And vows that he won't let his brother suffer the same fate, no matter what it takes.

Rockwell regretfully states that he is uncertain if he would be able to cure Donnie in time.

Elsewhere Raph tells Mikey that he's surprised he's not coming up with a monster name for Donnie like Tyrano-Don or Donzilla or something like that. Mikey just gives Raph an irritated look and says this is their brother and Donatello isn't a monster.

[Tarris Vaal]

This is a great idea :) I may just have to run with this one - please excuse the long post :)

Mikey: Donnie is not a monster Raph. It'd have to be Gameradon or how about the incredible Dulk!


It occurs to me that we have had a similar idea to this in show before with the Rat King. Rats and men had him attempt to spread a 'ratmen' virus but he never really got beyond initial testing. How about expanding that storyline and bringing back the Rat king for a third and final double ep?

Maybe the Rat King survives the fall, but is now completely crippled and trapped in a useless body. Using his rats he more or less perfects the serum and begins to spread his plague upon the surface. Donnie is bitten during a short skirmish as the Turtles investigate. He quickly starts to suffer some sort of infection and is brought back to the lair. Donnie starts to investigate the bite with April's help whilst Splinter starts to sense something is greatly wrong elsewhere.

Donnie collapses suddenly and is taken to bed. April tries to explain what they were discovering when an inhuman roar comes from Donnie's room and the door bursts open to reveal a monstrous mutated Donatello. He smashes his way out of the lair, clutching at his head. The others are knocked aside as he suffers fits of rage, but he stops short of April - the two briefly pausing as he seems to suddenly calm. Raph's charge causes him to snap out of the pause and Donnie escapes into the sewers.

April hurriedly explains that they'd found the wound was infected with some kind of mutagenic serum - and Leo concludes that the rat people they encountered before were also infected and recalls the Rat King's previous intentions. Splinter sends them ahead with Casey to get Donnie back whilst April and Splinter go to find Dr Rockwell, hoping he could help find a cure.

Leo and the others are caught in a large skirmish as rat mutants begin attacking the city en masse. They meet up with the Mutanimals who are already engaged with trying to stop the attack. Rockwell is already working on a cure and Leo contacts April to pass on his location.

Whilst heading there, Splinter is telepathically contacted by the Rat king who explains that his useless body is dying and he wants Splinter's in exchange for Donatello's life.


Donatello, in the meantime is struggling to control his mutation. He is literally in two minds - one an enraged mutated monster and the other his fracturing own psyche. Struggling for control he tries to defy the Rat King's commands and his own rage when Mikey suddenly finds him.
Mikey tries to reason with him as Donatello warns him to stay away, but Mikey continues to try and reach him and bring him home. Casey suddenly arrives to back up Mikey, but the monster sees him and reacts to his presence, tapping into Donatello's envy of Casey and using it to take control. Donnie snaps and attacks but he falls short of finishing Casey as the real Donatello struggles to take back control.

Mikey more or less figures out what is happening to Donatello's mind and warns Casey to stay back, but Donnie's dark side takes over again and he launches into battle. Slash intervenes and defends them. Slash is surprisingly outmatched by the monster Don's sheer rage and strength.

"Ready for another beatdown Slash?"

In the meantime, Rockwell's lab is attacked by the Rat king's minions and Rockwell himself is captured alongside Splinter. April manages to escape with the cure with the help of Pigeon Pete.

Splinter and Rockwell brought to the Rat King's throne and Rockwell immediately argues with his old colleague. Rat King snarls at him, dismissing him as a mere ape when Rodents are clearly superior. He reveals the brilliance of his formula to Rockwell to demonstrate this and prove he is unstoppable. He then shows Splinter a telepathic image of Donatello's faltering mind and offers him the choice. Give up his body to Rat King in exchange for his son's life or watch Donatello become a monster.

Freeze frame for next episode :)

[neatoman]

Just gonna repost my idea for the ending of New Animated Adventures:
Shredder has taken control of TCRI and plans to use the Transmat to teleport the city to the moon so he can use the advanced alien technology to build weapons and a mutant army without interference for Earth authorities. The Turtles find out about this and try to stop him, they battle their way through all sorts of craziness in TCRI, including robots, mutants and things that are hard to describe (demons? I don't know as long as it makes sense in context). Once they reach the top it's just too late, Shredder just manages to teleport the city to the moon (I guess an artificial atmosphere is created from TCRI). Shredder reveals that he has already started up a giant laser that will target the most important places on Earth so that it will be easy to take over once the army is ready. They fight Shredder for a bit while clock ticks down. They manage to push Shredder into a vat of mutagen and succeed in shutting down the laser and teleporting the city back to Earth. They get ready to taste sweet victory but then they remember, Shredder! Shredder emerges from the mutagen as that Shark-Thing from Tales v2! They try to fight the Shark-Shredder for a bit but they have to retreat. They steal a car but Shredder is chasing them. They get to the docks and do their best to fight him, eventually they find a container with explosivesand manage to drop it on him, they detonate the explosives and Mr. Saki is done for. The enemy is defeated for good and the conflict with the Foot is finally over.

[Tarris Vaal]

Rather than teleporting the city, how about he uses the portal to reopen the gate to Dimension X in order to replenish his dwindling stocks of mutagen (in order to create his proposed mutant army)?

That way, when the Turtles attempt to stop him, there is a ready source of mutagen at hand to mutate Shredder :)

Actually, thinking about it, isnt the Kraang Technodrome still at the bottom of the bay? I assume it was teleported back to Dimension X like the rest of the Kraang, but that wasn't explicitly stated. That might be an easy way to get sharks involved as well and turn Shredder into Armaggon as you suggested :)

[neatoman]

Rather than teleporting the city, how about he uses the portal to reopen the gate to Dimension X in order to replenish his dwindling stocks of mutagen (in order to create his proposed mutant army)?

That way, when the Turtles attempt to stop him, there is a ready source of mutagen at hand to mutate Shredder :)

Actually, thinking about it, isnt the Kraang Technodrome still at the bottom of the bay? I assume it was teleported back to Dimension X like the rest of the Kraang, but that wasn't explicitly stated. That might be an easy way to get sharks involved as well and turn Shredder into Armaggon as you suggested :)

I suppose that makes more sense but it's not quite as over the top. And I didn't think of Armaggon but rather this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67602/1438134-tales_of_the_tmnt_v2_03_page19.png

[gibbs615]

Well i want they're to be a real Irma and that she was held captive somewhere else by the kraang and become another ally and friend of the group of course.

[Tarris Vaal]

I had a thought about this as a lot of people seem to want Irma back - I was thinking it was strange we had been told that Renet was due to appear in the show at some point soon, but we'd never seen any artwork or concept art for her.

How about this as a scenario;

Due to events prior, the Turtles. Casey and April are working their way back to New York from Dimension X. April's powers have navigated them this far and she senses a means to get home, a large portal connected to the TCRI building back home. Unfortunately its in the middle of a large Kraang base.

Sneaking in, the Turtles make their way through the building as quietly as they can, but Mikey feels suddenly drawn to something. Donnie is about to tell him to focus, but April senses it too. Intrigued, they investigate one of the nearby cells, but its heavily locked and there are no windows to peer through. Donnie hacks into the system and finds some information on the occupant. There isn't much, only that she is called Renet and has been a prisoner of the Kraang for some time who have been using her for various experiments with Time and Dimension travel. He also finds indications that she was captured during some kind of war, and that the Kraang have been using her for propaganda and infiltration.

Mikey recognises the name Renet almost at once, recognising it from a recurring dream he's been having since they got to Dimension X. He shoves Donnie aside and immediately tries to get through the lock. Raph and Leo tell him to shut up and be quiet, but Mikey is incensed and determined to get this girl out.

The door finally opens with a hiss of steam to reveal the girl inside. Almost immediately setting off the alarms. As the smoke clears April and Mikey stand in shock as they see an unconscious girl who is the spitting image of Irma. Leo tells them there's no time to stand there gawking and they have to go. Raph tells them to leave her. Mikey refuses and scoops her up, telling them to go ahead if he falls behind.

Donnie and Casey get April moving as she recovers from the shock and they provide cover for Mikey as he takes Renet back to the portal.



There you go :) Irma would be back ... sort of...

[victory_angel]

This is a great idea :) I may just have to run with this one - please excuse the long post :)

Mikey: Donnie is not a monster Raph. It'd have to be Gameradon or how about the incredible Dulk!

I was thinking of Mikey's refusal to give Donnie a mutant or a monster name would be an echo of that point in the first episode of season 2 where Mikey calls April's dad "Wingnut" And Donnie says "Mikey you are *not* giving Mr. O'Neil a monster name!"

It would make sense that Mikey would give Kirby a monster name because he doesn't have an actual relationship with Dr. O'Neil outside of him just being April's Dad. Donnie on the other hand Mikey does have a genuine relationship with as both a brother and a close friend. So when Raph comments about the the fact he isn't coming up with Monster names for Donnie, Mikey says "Are you a few pepperoni's short of a pizza slice?! D' is our brother, not a monster!"


It occurs to me that we have had a similar idea to this in show before with the Rat King. Rats and men had him attempt to spread a 'ratmen' virus but he never really got beyond initial testing. How about expanding that storyline and bringing back the Rat king for a third and final double ep?

That maybe be plausible and knowing Nickelodeon that might be how they play it out. However the rat-men serum had Kraang Mutagen as part of it.

Where as in the 2k3 the mutation outbeak was an unintentional result of a staged Alien Attack in order to continue to get funding for the EPF. And whenever one of his fake aliens were defeated they would puff up like a zit and explode leaving this puss like ooze that eventually is swept into the sewers.

I can see the fake alien or rather a fake mutant attack happen though not for the sake of funding, but rather to get the public of New York to see that Mutants are a threat.

Donnie collapses suddenly and is taken to bed. April tries to explain what they were discovering when an inhuman roar comes from Donnie's room and the door bursts open to reveal a monstrous mutated Donatello.

I don't think it should be that quick. I mean yeah I don't want it to be episodes where they introduce Donnie as sick and then have several episodes where they completely forget he's ill before reminding everyone that yes he's still sick. This happened in the 2k3 sadly enough.

Donnie's infection and resulting illness in the 2k3 reminded me of a medical condition called Graft to Host syndrome. I'm not a Dr. by any means but I do have some training in medical administration and have volunteered at a cancer institute.

I don't know if this process is experimental or still used in practice but there is one Cancer treatment where the cells of someone with close matching DNA such as a sibling are introduced into the body to help boost the immune system and attack the cancer. However this practice also causes an illness called Graft to Host Syndrome which means the foreign cells don't adapt to the host body, but rather see the host body as an invading organism and attack it.

And that was what was going on during the out break arc in the 2k3 because early on in an episode a city maintenance worker gets attacked by some of the mutants who were created by the outbreak and he's mutated fairly quickly. But when Donatello is stung nothing happens because the foreign mutagen was fighting the alien mutagen that was already in Donnie's DNA.

In Donnie's case when he gets infected Donnie comes down with cold like symptoms that last for months. Typically colds last 5-7 days so that should have been an automatic red flag.

In Nicks case they could introduce it as a cold. Maybe Splinter, Raph, or Casey point out that Donnie seems under the whether. However he still is able to undergo patrol well enough though they don't push themselves as hard as they usually do. Same thing with the mission for the day such as have Donnie hang back from the fighting. Then at the end of the episode there is some focus on Donnie as they reenter the lair and he's not looking too good. The others are all debriefing about the mission when Donnie suddenly passes out.

Then the next episode can imply that Donnie has been sick for several days and April can suggest about having her Dad or maybe Rockwell coming to assess his illness (Yeah I know they aren't medical doctors but they would have had some courses in medicine as part of their fields) And that is when the transformation occurs.

Part of the plan would be Mikey, Leo, and April trying to reach Donnie and trying to get him to remember who they are kinda like Leo and Mikey trying to reach Karai and getting her to recognize who they are. Raph and Casey are on the look out for any Foot Clan issues while Leatherhead and Slash would be muscle that is there to take Donnie down if anything goes wrong.

Unfortunately the Foot Clan arrives and takes Donnie captive as a New Mutant warrior for the Shredder. April and Casey are sent back to inform Splinter about what happened. Maybe the interspersed through out the events there is a shared memory with all the brothers about a time where Donnie had been there for them when they had been children.

Everyone is able to rescue Donnie, but he has to remain in the containment unit that the Shredder had placed him in for their own safety. Splinter is heartbroken to see one of his sons like this and everyone is expressing their own version of grief.

With Leo vowing that he doesn't know how the'll do it, but they will find a way to return their brother to normal...no matter what it takes.

The next episode then maybe continues with Rockwell looking over what research Donnie has done regarding the mutant he had captured for study. Splinter then asks Leonardo what he intends to do if their brother isn't cured in time. Leo doesn't answer the question or he refuses to acknowledge that failure could happen, but as we says this one hand does go to Katana as hint that he would take it upon himself and put his brother out of his misery.


And Tarris we did receive concept art for Renet during NYCC last year.
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/3/33/Renet_2012.png/revision/latest?cb=20141011000051 She will probably be introduced whenever they bring in Savantei Ramero.

[neatoman]

So I did have an idea on where to take April's powers. As we all know, her powers just seem kind of tacked on and has not had much relevance, but what if it lead to a tragic ending?

Ever seen Akira or read the manga it's based on? Well the main villain, Tetsuo Shima, isn't that different from April. He starts out with minor powers that grow until he's invincible, but as such he becomes a psychopath that threatens the world and his friends are forced to defeat him.

I can imagine something similar. Let's say Bishop kidnaps her and experiments on her for months, training her, takes tissue samples, drugs her to test different variables, in other words, horrible stuff. The Turtles eventually rescue her, assuming everything will fine but it won't be. April is left mentally scarred and her powers have grown too much, seeing the world as a threat because of Bishop and the EPF, she decides to destroy it.

Long story short, **** gets real. She destroys the Foot clan, the EPF and anyone else standing in her way of wrecking everything. The Turtles are forced to defeat her and does so through miraculous odds, maybe she won't turn into a blob like Tetsuo but something more childfriendly like she has to be frozen and stored in a vault. This leaves a bittersweet ending, the world is safe but the Turtles had to save it from their very first friend...

[victory_angel]

I'm banking on April being a neutrino.

Signs
April is a human created by the Kraang
The Nutrino's are a humanoid race that exists in dimension

When Donnie tells April she's a mutant it's more that he doesn't have any other way to describe what she is.

The Neutrino's have psychic powers as babies which fade out over time.
April has psychic powers she's had since she's was a baby.

In the IDW Professor Honeycutt is a neutrino scientist before becoming the Fugitoid.

The Fugitoid is going to appear soon in the Nick show.

[neatoman]

Fugatoid

I have no idea who the "Fugatoid" is, I know who the "Fugitoid" is though. :roll:

[Tarris Vaal]

The more I look at that concept art the more I want to put glasses on it.


Those eyebrows are worryingly similar. Can anyone find a pic of Irma without her glasses so we can compare? I'm worried we might actually have stumbled onto something. :lol:

I don't think it should be that quick. I mean yeah I don't want it to be episodes where they introduce Donnie as sick and then have several episodes where they completely forget he's ill before reminding everyone that yes he's still sick. This happened in the 2k3 sadly enough.

So far we've not had any 3 part stories (unless you count Into Dimension X as part of Invasion... which is sort of fair). First time for everything :) But assuming they would keep with the established pattern of 2 parters, this would definitely warrant it.

I dont know the good genes storyline so I'm going completely with your description of it. Sounds cool though :)

[victory_angel]

In the 1990's Movie. Leo and Raph have an argument and Leo ends it by telling Raph that he isn't needed on the team.

And then after Raph is nearly killed Leo stays with Raph because he feels responsible for what happened,

However while Leo was in his three month Coma it's Raph who watches over Leo when it's Donnie who says the words "You're leading the team into disaster."

I suppose Raph watches over Leo because he feels guilty for not being there when his brothers could have used his help. However since Leo had only just woke up they gave him the gist rundown of

They were defeated and forced to evacuate the city.
They are currently staying at a farm house owned by April's family and they have been living there since the invasion three months ago.
Splinter is gone supposedly killed by the Shredder.
Ect.

The way I see it is that that Donnie is essentially the one keeping Leo alive during the critical but stable stage. But he's so committed to keeping Leo alive that he neglects his own health. And Raph takes it upon himself to look after Leo once it the situation becomes too problematic. Or like episode Within the woods suggests Donnie is so plagued with guilt that he just can't bear being around Leo for extended periods of time.
Both Donnie and Leo know they need to address their argument but they are waiting for the other to bring it up.

[Tarris Vaal]

I would love them to delve a little more into that rather than leave it so long it never becomes anything - but I fear it would take something else knocking Leo for six (Raph?) to renew those feelings of guilt in Donnie enough to make it relevant again.

Still a Dark Raph smashing Leo six days from Sunday and Donnie blaming himself for it 'just like I failed him before...' - that should work :)

I agree though, I really dont want them to just miss that chance (or worse, ignore it).

[yellowmario27]

The way I see it is that that Donnie is essentially the one keeping Leo alive during the critical but stable stage. But he's so committed to keeping Leo alive that he neglects his own health. And Raph takes it upon himself to look after Leo once it the situation becomes too problematic. Or like episode Within the woods suggests Donnie is so plagued with guilt that he just can't bear being around Leo for extended periods of time.
Both Donnie and Leo know they need to address their argument but they are waiting for the other to bring it up.

I actually rewatched Within the Woods recently, what part are you talking about that Donnie is plagued with guilt?

I do agree that they should have had some sort of moment between donnie and leo....I think it's too far back now, and I doubt they will talk about it :/
unless a situation similar comes up again, where Donnie and Leo clash. I think it should happen, it'll be a good way to bring it up

[victory_angel]

I actually rewatched Within the Woods recently, what part are you talking about that Donnie is plagued with guilt?

The part where Leo was just placed in the tub and Donnie just absently says "That should keep him hydrated....help him heal faster." Before he leaves the room.

I do agree that they should have had some sort of moment between donnie and leo....I think it's too far back now, and I doubt they will talk about it :/
unless a situation similar comes up again, where Donnie and Leo clash. I think it should happen, it'll be a good way to bring it up

The first time they argued they both had good ideas as to how to deal with the invasion however instead of compromising their ideas they let their egos get the better of them and made both options endgame.

So my guess in the next point when they clash is when Leo learns Karai is in the Shredder's hands and he becomes really obsessed with helping her. Donnie starts to point that they have more to focus on outside of Karai and Leo however says there is nothing more important then saving Karai, and maybe Leo says "you just don't want to look for her because you don't like her...you never did." And Donnie chooses to back down before someone says something they regret.

Then during the mission Donnie is captured or seriously wounded or Raph is captured and Donnie is seriously wounded while pushing Leo out of oncoming danger and that is where Leo realizes he was losing sight of what was really important.

[victory_angel]

The more I look at that concept art the more I want to put glasses on it.


Those eyebrows are worryingly similar. Can anyone find a pic of Irma without her glasses so we can compare? I'm worried we might actually have stumbled onto something. :lol:

Often with these future-verse. TMNT stories Donnie is the lone survivor of his family.

In the 2k3 story line there was a plot where Donnie disappeared and was assumed dead. When Present Day Donnie encounters Future Mikey. Future Mikey accuses Donnie of abandoning them 30 years prior to that episode.

However when Leo and Raph's future selves see him they are both surprised and glad to see him which suggests that yes they knew or had some idea of what happened to the Donatello from their universe, but for whatever reason kept it to themselves because the truth would have destroyed Mikey.

In the IDW comic however there is this whole time travel arc involving Renet. And the last part of the story they learn Shredder has taken over Manhattan and mutated most of the citizens. The Turtle then encounter an older and decrepit version of Donnie who tells them that the Shredder and Krang have taken over. His brothers were killed in a fight against the Shredder while Donnie just gave up and had been hiding there ever since.

Present Day Donnie then calls his future-self out as a coward at the end Future Donnie shows up and helps save the day and as the Turtles are leaving to return to their time Donatello tells them that they can stop his future from happening.

So I think if the Turtles are sent to various points of time and space and end up in a world that is controlled by Shreader the nick toon can go about it two ways.

The first way the Shredder has taken over and Donnie died sacrificing himself to save his brothers. Leo was the only one there to witness Donnie's final moments and he was gone by the time Raph and Mikey arrived. For a time they tried to continue on as a team, but without Donnie they found themselves lost when it comes to things that need Donnie's expertise. Raph and Leo but heads about all this and eventually they went their separate ways.

Another version is all the Turtles except one are gone, and the one that remains is a death seeker because he's mad with grief and goes by the title of "The Dark Turtle" (Mikey of course starts complaining about how he could come up with a better name then that such as the "Nightwatcher" for example.)

All the Turtles figure that the Dark Turtle could be Raph or Leo who has the Dark Turtle persona . But during an event the Shredder holds a rally but it's really a trap for the Dark Turtle. Raph sees the Dark Turtle and tackles him to stop him, however he unmasks him he is surprised to see the Dark Turtle is actually Donnie.

Donnie also looks stunned for a moment before he clocks him and runs away. The others regather and April explains everything that the Turtles had gone into a huge fight against the Shredder. Splinter and the Turtles were all slaughtered...everyone but Donnie. Donnie was kept alive and forced to watch as his brothers and father were killed. Donnie himself also underwent physical torture as well. But Shredder left him barely alive telling him to live with the sin of being the only survivor.

April and Casey managed to find him and nurse him back to health, but his mind was greatly altered by what he had endured. He still keeps in touch with them, but he's focused on taking out the Shredder which is a suicide mission. Leo then asks if they know where he's staying. Casey says that should be obvious.

[Tarris Vaal]

That could also link into that idea you postured a while back about a flashback episode where its revealed Donnie is the one responsible for the crack in Raph's shell and its implied Donnie actually used to have as bad a temper as Raph. Might be a nice way of linking them in if they go the route of making Donatello an embittered last survivor (which itself is kinda ironic considering recent IDW)

Also a nice touch to get a reference of the TMNT movie in there ;)

I would like to think though that Donnie wouldnt become so vengeance driven as to be suicidal. He still has April to look out for in that scenario (unless Shredder takes her out too and leaves only Casey and Donatello as the sole survivors).

I'd still want for a flash forward episode like this to focus on Mikey's perspective and discovery of this future world though (especially if Renet is involved), just to share the screentime between the Turtles rather than be too focused on one of them (and in particular Donatello). Could easily still work out that its Mikey who stumbles on 'Nightwatcher' thinking him to be Raph and finding its a world weary Donnie and taking it from there.


Looking back over this thread, isnt it interesting how just adding April as Donnie's love interest makes Donatello such a focus point for plot lines? I always used to think Leo and Raph got the most screen time and focus in most iterations because of the personal growth their characters go through (TMNT is a prime example of this). Fascinating how such a minor tweak - polarizing though it might be among fans - has brought such attention to Donnie.

[victory_angel]

That could also link into that idea you postured a while back about a flashback episode where its revealed Donnie is the one responsible for the crack in Raph's shell and its implied Donnie actually used to have as bad a temper as Raph. Might be a nice way of linking them in if they go the route of making Donatello an embittered last survivor (which itself is kinda ironic considering recent IDW)

Also a nice touch to get a reference of the TMNT movie in there ;)

The Dark Turtle is also an OT reference. There was one episode where Donatello is being teased about how he focuses more on his inventions when he should be more focused on his ninja training. Donatello insists that he could take out the Shredder if he wanted to. And of course to prove it he does try to take out the Shredder on his own during an encounter. Unfortunately he gets thrown into a power generator and electrocuted. The others take his wounded body back to the lair however when he wakes up he becomes psychotic and creates a persona for himself called "The Dark Turtle" A parody of the Dark Knight AKA Batman. And is hell bent on seeing the Shredder die once and for all.

In the IDW comic (checked out the issue) Each of the turtles in time issues have a story that focuses on one turtle. Raph's focus story has the Turtles going to the time of the Dinosaurs, Leo's they go to Ancient Japan and encounter their past selves (FYI- The IDW turtles and Splinter are reincarnations of a Japanese family) In Mikey's story line there is a pirate ship. And in Donnie's of course Anti-Utopian future.

In the IDW the Turtles are at first glad to be in a world where they can walk around like normal people. But after it's revealed that they don't follow the Shredder's ideals they are driven to the back to the sewers.

When they get there they discover the Shredder has taken over all of North and South America, Krang has taken over Europe, Africa, and Asia, and Stockman controls Oceania or at least the Australia portion of it.

Renet appears to them and she admits she was sending them to all the places she was sending them on accident. She also tells them that Time Travel is complicated and sometimes the universe sends them to places where they are needed so they can learn what they needed to from that time.

Leo comments that none of that is important and tells Renet to send them back to their time so they can stop that future from happening. Donnie speaks up and says they don't know what caused that future and they very well could have already made the one mistake that creates that world.

A voice behind them tells them that is wasn't just one mistake but many mistakes. They all turn and they see an elderly, bitter, and decrepit version of Donatello. Renet comments that the two of them should not be encountering each other but Donnie tells her that she doesn't have any say in that, particularly after all they've been through.

Mikey asks where the older versions of the rest of them are because he wants to meet his older self. Future Donnie doesn't say it but it's implied that his brothers are no longer alive.

Leo then says that even if they are no longer around, certainly he must have allies. Such as the people who are part of the Resistance Groups. Future Donnie tells them that resistance is a game for Younger Turtles and that he hasn't left the lair in years.

Donnie is upset at this and demands to know how his future self could just give up, particularly since he's the only one left. Future Donnie explains that he's the only one left because he did gave up. When the war against Shredder and Kraang started they found themselves facing increasingly impossible odds and eventually he ceased to see how it made sense that they were fighting in a war they would never be able to win.

His brothers however disagreed and no matter how many times he tried to convince them that the battle was already lost...they still kept fighting. And that night whats left of the resistance would fall as well. The leaders of the resistance have all been captured and they would be publicly executed as a message to anyone who dared to oppose the Shredder.

Present Day Donnie: And you're just going to let that happen?! What happened to you?!

Present Day Donnie tells his brothers they can't return to their time just yet, they need to rescue those resistance leaders so they can continue their fight. That at least was one thing they knew they could fix. Future Donnie just defeatedly says "This is your fight, not mine..." but agrees to show them where the execution is being held.

During the battle Future Donnie stands on the sidelines while his younger self and his brothers fight through the crowd to get to the stage where the resistance leaders are waiting to be killed off. He however gets involved in the fight when an upstart hits him.

Donnie is able to free most of the resistance leaders with Future Donnie's help. Future Donnie says he'd lead the resistance away to safety but he needs Present Day Donnie to cover time for their escape. Then they can have Renet return them to their time.

Present Day Donnie says he doesn't see how he can just leave seeing as this is how the future is going to be. Future Donnie however says this is a future...but it doesn't have to be his future. There is still a chance it can be saved...Maybe. Future Donatello takes the resistance to the lair. One of the leaders who apparently is a friend the Turtles knew in Present Day time thanks him for giving them use of the lair, but they lost a lot of people and they need more then just beds. They need fighters and leaders and to at least think about it. Future Donnie then pulls his old mask off the wall and looks at it in contemplation.

In present day Donnie also has his mask off and his looking at it in contemplation as he recounts his last conversation with his future self. Raph tries to comfort him and says it doesn't matter what Donnie's future self says because he knows the Donnie he knows right now as his brother wouldn't just quit. Donnie however admits he had thought about quitting. He doesn't intend on quitting right that second or even the near future. But he has considered the odds they are facing and in their darkest moments he has wondered if they are fighting a losing battle.

Mikey tells Donnie that none of the fights they have done have ever made sense. And Raph shouts they fight because it's the right thing to do. Donnie then shoots back that the three of them all died because of him. He didn't know how or why, but it was pretty clear that was the case. And he didn't know how he can stop it or even if he could.

Leo also isn't happy about all this defeatist talk, but he is offering Donnie an understanding ear. So he says that Renet had said the universe was trying to teach them something. And the one thing he learned in their whole crazy adventure it that the fight began eons before they were born and it would continue for years after they were gone. So they can't spend their whole lives second guessing themselves.

When Donnie says he doesn't know what else to do, Mikey just says "All we really can do is keep fighting, isn't that enough?" Donnie looks a little irritated by the answer but puts his mask back on and says "Maybe". Leo then says "Maybe" is good enough...for now.


I would like to think though that Donnie wouldnt become so vengeance driven as to be suicidal. He still has April to look out for in that scenario (unless Shredder takes her out too and leaves only Casey and Donatello as the sole survivors).

Well that would be something Present Day Donnie would tell his future self that his brothers may be gone. But April and Casey are still there and they want to be there for him. And there are resistance groups that could use his help. But he's just pushing that all away in his blind desire for vengeance. Future Donnie says he's pushing them away so he doesn't lose them too.

The other guys scout out the rest of the lair... such Leo checks out the lab, but Donnie goes in the direction of the Dojo and finds his older self there and that's where the convo starts. Future Donnie tells his present day self about how he was forced to watch each of his brothers and his father die one by one. First Mikey, then Splinter, then Raph, and finally Leo. And compared to that the suffering he had undergone at the hands of the Shredder was nothing. And truth he longed to join his family in the next world, but the Shredder left him alive. Saying there was nothing to be gained by killing him. So he would continue to live with the sin of knowing his family had been destroyed and he could do nothing to stop it. And he's spent these past twenty years alone devising a plan to defeat the Shredder for good.

I keep envisioning Mikey coming into the Dojo during this part of the conversation. Future Donnie is looking away so he doesn't see Mikey come in. Mikey then whimpers runs up and hugs him and tells him that he doesn't need to be alone anymore.

Future Donnie is taken aback by this action...at first... but then breaks down and tells Mikey he's missed him...he's missed them all so much.

[victory_angel]

I'd still want for a flash forward episode like this to focus on Mikey's perspective and discovery of this future world though (especially if Renet is involved), just to share the screentime between the Turtles rather than be too focused on one of them (and in particular Donatello). Could easily still work out that its Mikey who stumbles on 'Nightwatcher' thinking him to be Raph and finding its a world weary Donnie and taking it from there.

With the Donnie sacrificed himself to save the team idea, I said Leo and Raph went their separate ways. But I never said what Mikey would be doing and that's because Mikey would have stayed with Splinter at the lair. And he's the one the Present Day Turtles encounter first, and he fills them in on what had happened.

Maybe one thing said before Leo and Raph separate is "If you were a better leader, maybe Donnie wouldn't have had to sacrifice himself." Which present day Leo takes to heart. But in reality Raph was angry that Donnie had died and that Leo was there for him in his final moments while Raph never got the chance to say good bye.

[Tarris Vaal]

That sounds like a good set up to divide the team ready for a Dark Raph arc :)

Donatello sacrificing himself doesnt necessarily require he die, only that he is seemingly 'permanently separated' from the others. Being trapped in Dimension X for example would work very well and would lead to a similar dilemma for the brothers left behind (and April/Casey/Splinter for that matter)

Lets say for instance, they discover that the means to cure Karai can only be found in Dimension X. Donnie finds a way to use the portal device they have leftover to re enter along with the others. After a thrilling action sequence, they get what they were looking for, but their way home is seriously damaged. They all manage to get to New york, but the portal isn't closing. They could leave the portal open, but it would allow the Kraang to reenter their dimension. Someone has to close it from the Dimension X side. Donnie leaps back followed by the others only to find the Kraang closing in. Leo demands Donnie go, as he will close the portal.

Donnie tells him not to be a hero. He has to help Karai. Leo hesitates as Raph and Mikey lead the charge back home. Donnie tells him there is no other choice; 'Tell April...'
Leo's face drops and he answers 'I know.'

He leaves and Donnie shuts down the portal as the Kraang overwhelm him.

April is furious Leo would leave him and distraught she's lost her best friend. Casey consoles her as Mikey just drops to his knees in shock. Leo is on the verge of tears - already blaming himself for not forcing Donnie back whilst Raph is furious and blames him for failing to lead them properly.

'He sacrificed himself to save Karai. Lets not let him down.'

Raph tells him to forget it and storms off. Leo thinks its just a temporary thing and moves to April to apologise and to try and tell her Donnie's message. She cuts him off and tells him not to give up on him.


Somewhere in Dimension X - Donnie is thrown into a cell with another inmate. He still has a picture of April with him and promises to get back to her somehow, someday. As he says it, the inmate asks him who the girl is, revealing herself to be Renet (who as I've mentioned this idea now, can turn out to be the spitting image of Irma - Maybe the Kraang can use Donnie to replicate Turtle Bots in the future as well)

Outside, Raph is fuming and isolated. Whilst still grieving he finds himself suddenly cut off and surrounded by Shredder's minions out looking for the Turtles to experiment the serum on. They force him down to his knees and inject it into him.

Freeze frame :)

[victory_angel]

That sounds like a good set up to divide the team ready for a Dark Raph arc :)

Donatello sacrificing himself doesnt necessarily require he die, only that he is seemingly 'permanently separated' from the others. Being trapped in Dimension X for example would work very well and would lead to a similar dilemma for the brothers left behind (and April/Casey/Splinter for that matter)

That is true. In Same as it Never Was Donnie gets sent to a future where he had been missing and assumed dead for thirty years. His brothers are not only 30 years older but they are severely maimed. Mikey is missing his left arm, Raph his left eye, and Leo is completely blind. Both Splinter and Casey are dead and April is the leader of a resistance group. Present day Donatello tells his brothers the Shredder needs to be taken out for good. The others are reluctant but agree and during the battle Leo,Raph and Mikey are all killed and afterwards I was given the impression Donnie was in shock over the deaths of his brothers.

There have been numerous fan fictions that try to bring that situation into the 2012 version. On person even attempted to explain Donnies absence in the story as Donnie going crazy and betraying his family to the Shredder.

Personally I don't see Donnie betraying his family no matter the cercomstance. We do know his family does mean a lot to him because they are all he has and Donnie has had a psychotic persona in the tmnt mythos so yes I can see Donnie driven to the brink of madness at the loss of his family.

But I can also see him pushing away his remaining friends and loved ones away so he doesn't lose them the same way he lost his family. And if Donnie's dark turtle persona can be reintroduced into tmnt I can see it done this way.

Also futurevirse plots like SAINW and the Idw future plot are ment to disturb Donnie. They are ment for him to hate it because it helps him value the people he has all the more.

Such as Donnie's plan to take out the Shredder resulting in the deaths of his bros. or idw Donnie learning there is a future where his bro's die because of him and he becomes a bitter old coward because of the shame he feels about giving up.

Even if a futurevirse plot line is Donnie focused it is still possible for Mikey to have a big role.
Let's say for plausibility the Shredder has captured the turtles and demands Donnie make the retromutagen for karai or else. Mikey could be the first to suffer at the hands of the Shredder because he is the one who would have the most impact. Splinter they would understand a parents desire to sacrifice themselves for their children, Leo would sacrifice himself because it's noble, Raph to spare his brothers suffering. But Mikey is the baby of the family so his suffering and death would of course bring up Donnie's big brother instincts. Donnie would tell shredder the retromutagen doesn't work. Shredder however refuses to believe and insists the retromutagen can restore karai. When it's Leo's turn he knows he's going to die either way and Donnie is at breaking point with being forced to watch his family members suffer one by one. He then tells shredder that Donnie is telling the truth. They had retro mutagen they used it on her and it didn't do anything to restore her. Shredder gets mad kills Leo instantly then orders Donnie to be locked up. Later he demands Donnie find a cure for karai. Donnie refuses and suffers under torture when he refuse to comply to Shredders demands he tells Shredder that he's already robbed him of all he has cared about so there so there is little point in keeping him alive. Shredder regards Donnie the same way he would regard and insect. Easily crushed but not worth the effort.

10-20 years pass the present day turtles arrive to find Ny is controlled by Shedder they are found by April and Casey and learn that the Donnie now goes by the title of dark turtle. And Mikey could have a big role in restoring Donnie's mind and making him less of death seeker

[Tarris Vaal]

I often wondered if given Ciro's background with the Teen titans if we would get a similar situation to what happened with Slade and Robin;

Robin is forced to join Slade as his apprentice when Slade manages to infect the other members of the team with nanites keyed to explode if he should command it. He uses this threat to coerce Robin to do his bidding and attack his own team.

Shredder could use a similar plan to force Donatello to cooperate to create Retromutagen for Karai by threatening the lives of April or the other Turtles - without them even realising they are under threat and Donatello unable to tell them for threat of their destruction.

Could work just as well for keeping Raph under control without using the serum (or as a means of making him accept the serum willingly)

[yellowmario27]

do you think they would ever go that dark?

[GoldMutant]

I've thought of how they'd defeat Shredder for a while, here's what I've got in my story. It happens after he turns into Super Shredder and destroys Tiger Claw and Rahzar as well as all the Turtles minus Leo getting pummeled.

After Leo arrives before Raphael gets killed, they enter a final showdown:

He dominates the group and mercilessly beats them up. Due to the damage done from fighting longer, Donatello, Michaelangelo, and Raphael are easily defeated which leaves a battered Leonardo standing alone in the fight. Saki then orders the eldest Turtle to drop his weapons or risk the life of Miwa. With no other choice, the katanas are thrown forward; it is revealed Shredder set them up and is ready to throw Karai off. In a fit of desperation,Leo throws a ninja smoke bomb at Super Shredder, blinding him and causing him to drop his “daughter”. Reacting on instinct, he hurries over and catches her, rescuing her in time. SS gets up from being blinded and goes on a final assault. Leo also charges one last time utilizing all his strength to attack him. Super Shredder prevents this, grabbing the weakened Turtle and squeezing his remaining stamina out. In a final attack, Leo slashes Super Shredder with his tiny knife, causing small damage and a noticeable bruise. With the mutated Saki holding onto the bruised area, Leonardo quickly grabs his katanas and impales the Super Shredder with his remaining strength. Screaming in pain, the contaminated blood spills out of Saki’s body while Leo faints from the fighting. Due to the loss of a great amount of blood, Oroku Saki meets his demise and turns back into a human, leaving a dead corpse behind. The brothers and Karai then go to help Leonardo, who’s still alive but just hurt from the showdown. At long last, the war between both the Hamato and Foot Clans have reached their climatic conclusion.

[Tarris Vaal]

Definitely agree that the final showdown between the Hamato and Foot clans should end with the Super Shredder - I'd actually be kinda disappointed if he doesnt show up at some point :) and I can well imagine you're right that it'd be Leo who gets in the final blow after all else seems lost.

Though actually, they could throw in a curveball and have it be Karai who delivers the killing blow - maybe because Leo can't bring himself to do it after defeating Shredder and does a Skywalker - refusing to finish him because he doesnt want to become like him. Karai may have no such quandary.



do you think they would ever go that dark?

No, not really. But we can hope they might dabble with the idea :)

[victory_angel]

do you think they would ever go that dark?

No, not really. But we can hope they might dabble with the idea :)

It's a fine line really. I mean we all know the show can go darker. But as the show is marketed to kids and it's being aired at a kids network they have to remain within the constraints of what the network and the rating would limit them to.

For example Renet Tilley from the 79th Dimension of Null-time is the Apprentice of Lord Simultaneous.

Often her story begins with her taking the time scepter without permission and then escaping to earth to avoid his wrath and then accidentally taking the Turtles with her to the time where Savanti Romero (a Dark Mage and exiled student of Lord Simultaneous) is imprisoned.

This can be a very brutal story line as the Turtles have difficulty in beating him and he's only really defeated once Lord Simultaneous himself shows up and sends Savanti Romero to the time of the the Dinosaurs.

There is a nick toy for Savanti Romero going to be released this year so obviously this is the plot line they are going to go with Renet.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/6/62/2015_NYTF_TMNT10_scaled_600.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width/166?cb=20150217215032

But as Renet is a love interest for Mikey so there could be a story line where Shredder some how gets his hands on the Time Scepter and sends all the Turtles to various points of time of time and space. As Nick might not be able to have the bugit for an individual world for each turtle. Ciro himself had said they only had the budget for one background set a day. So that means its a situation where three of the Turtles are sent to a future where Shredder has taken control. Only to find the one they left behind older and greatly changed by his experience. Or have one of the Turtles go forward in time and experience a universe that came into being because he wasn't there.

Teen Titans had a same as it never was plot involving Star Fire. In this plot they are fighting a guy who is able to travel through time and space. Starfire tries to stop him, and damages his time travel device which takes her twenty years into the future. To a universe where the teen titans have drifted apart. Cyborg is forced to stay at the tower, Beast Boy works for the circus, Raven is a prisoner of her own mind, and Robin has taken on the persona of Night Wing.

So possible scenarios

#1 Dark Turtle Scenario
Leo, Mikey, and Raph are sent forward 10-20 years. They find the Shredder has taken over the city and much of America if not the world. They encounter April and Casey and a much older Splinter who fill them in on whats been going on. Then when the question of what happened to Donnie comes up April and Casey go quiet a moment. And Casey says "We lost him a long time ago."

April states that not exactly true and tells them that Donnie had become distant after his brothers left and eventually went psychotic developing a persona called the Dark Turtle. Splinter says he is worried for Donatello and he knows his son is still there, but the absence of his brothers in these difficult times had weighed rather heavily on his heart causing this change. Perhaps they would be able to help him return to himself.

At first Donnie doesn't acknowledge them even though he knows they aren't ghosts or figments of his imagination. But he treats them like they don't exist or like they are going to disappear in the next five minutes. When he does actually acknowledge them he's angry and upset because they disappeared and he was left behind. And eventually with Mikey's help giving into the grief, fear, and guilt that he had been bottling away since his brothers disappeared.

#2: Same as it never was scenario/How long is forever
Only Donnie is sent forward in time. He arrives in future where Shredder has taken over. Not knowing where else to go he goes to the lair finds it abandoned. He sends a mass text to his brothers saying "Where are you guys" unfortunately it comes back as Message not sent, can't find signal.

Eventually Donnie goes outside again and is nearly caught by Foot Clan minions only to be rescued by Mikey. Only this Mikey isn't the plucky, hyperactive knuckle head Donnie once knew. His personality isn't replaced with Raph's (Like it is in SAINW) but he is less random and childish. Mikey is also missing his left arm. Mikey then takes Donnie to the resistance base where April is and they fill him in on what has happened since he vanished. Splinter died trying to protect his remaining sons. Casey was lost in a strike against the Shredder. The three of them had tried to continue as a team but without Donnie around things just fell apart. In the mean time Shredder had been using the time staff to gather sorts of futuristic weapons and altering history to suit his purposes. Following the death of Splinter Leo and Raph got into a huge fight and went their separate ways.

April gets in contact with Leo and Raph but the first thing that happens when they encounter other they want to fight. Donnie comes up and hits hits them with his bo staff surprising both of them. It's also revealed Leo is completely blind and Raph is missing his left eye. The Turtles with Present Day Donnie's help are able to get back the Time Scepter and they send Donnie back to his time arriving just seconds after he disappears in present day time taking the Time Scepter away from Shredder and having Renet leaving for Null-Time so Shredder can't get his hands on it again.

Scenario 3: Unknown-event
Same scenario from above where Donnie is sent into the time stream. Somehow the Turtles or Renet are able to get the time staff back and thus returning Donnie to where ever he was sent in time (perhaps with some help from Lord Simultaneous.) However Donnie is disturbed by what he had witnessed in the time stream. And when his family ask about what he encountered he brushes it off as nothing that is worth talking about though it's clear it's bothering him, and then in a later episode he explains what he experienced.

[Jephael]

I've been toying around with a wacky idea for a dream-sequence type episode in which Donatello gets knocked out during a battle, and finds himself waking up as a human being named Robert who's told that his life as a Ninja Turtle is just a make believe world co-created by his mentally ill younger brother Greg (human Mikey). In the "real world" April is Rob's girlfriend, while Casey is her creepy step-cousin. The human versions of Leonardo and Raphael are Rob's high school basketball teammates Seth and Sean, while Hamato Yoshi is Coach Lee. We also see Shredder as the school principal and the original human versions of Rahzar, Fishface and Baxter Stockman as teachers.

Victor Falco shows up half-way through the story as Greg's psychiatrist who the little boy is clearly frightened of. Rob tries to calm his brother down by playing their Ninja Turtle game together, which the doctor disapproves of since it was that very game that caused the car accident five years ago, which lead to the death of their neighborhood friend and babysitter Timothy. Sure enough Rob does some digging and discovers that Timothy in this world is the same Timothy in the "make-believe" world who became Mutagen Man.

More and more, Rob is convinced this is the real world until he comes across Tyler Rockwell who calls him Donatello and warns him that this mutant-less world is in fact the fake one being projected in his mind by the Rat King who is working with the Foot Clan to extract his knowledge of how to make retro-mutagen, and that he and his real brothers are held captive in Stockman's laboratory. Dream-April shows up and Rob shrugs off the illusion as a hallucination brought on by heat exhaustion. He later goes to basketball practice where he sees Seth and Sean as Leo and Raph and later he hears Coach Lee talking in Japanese. He's then called into the nurse's office where he hears that Greg is in the hospital after having suffered a seizure. Sean and Seth go with Rob to see Greg in the hospital. Greg envisions them as his turtle bros, which Sean sweetly humours him. Rob has a moment with Greg who seems aware of what Rob is thinking and actually gives him some deep insight on the matter. April shows up to give Rob some support, though he starts to wonder if she's even the real deal.

Looking back at the window he sees Falco about to administer a drug to Greg who's obviously upset by the doc's presence. Without even thinking, Rob runs back into the room and strikes the doctor, causing the entire environment to distort. Falco turns into the Rat King, while Rob becomes Donatello again and Rockwell reappears, this time with Dave Beaver, who is now a member of the Mutanimals. With Dave's help they escape the dream realm and return to the real world.

[victory_angel]

I've been toying around with a wacky idea for a dream-sequence type episode in which Donatello gets knocked out during a battle, and finds himself waking up as a human being named Robert who's told that his life as a Ninja Turtle is just a make believe world co-created by his mentally ill younger brother Greg (human Mikey). In the "real world" April is Rob's girlfriend, while Casey is her creepy step-cousin. The human versions of Leonardo and Raphael are Rob's high school basketball teammates Seth and Sean, while Hamato Yoshi is Coach Lee. We also see Shredder as the school principal and the original human versions of Rahzar, Fishface and Baxter Stockman as teachers.

Victor Falco shows up half-way through the story as Greg's psychiatrist who the little boy is clearly frightened of. Rob tries to calm his brother down by playing their Ninja Turtle game together, which the doctor disapproves of since it was that very game that caused the car accident five years ago, which lead to the death of their neighborhood friend and babysitter Timothy. Sure enough Rob does some digging and discovers that Timothy in this world is the same Timothy in the "make-believe" world who became Mutagen Man.

More and more, Rob is convinced this is the real world until he comes across Tyler Rockwell who calls him Donatello and warns him that this mutant-less world is in fact the fake one being projected in his mind by the Rat King who is working with the Foot Clan to extract his knowledge of how to make retro-mutagen, and that he and his real brothers are held captive in Stockman's laboratory. Dream-April shows up and Rob shrugs off the illusion as a hallucination brought on by heat exhaustion. He later goes to basketball practice where he sees Seth and Sean as Leo and Raph and later he hears Coach Lee talking in Japanese. He's then called into the nurse's office where he hears that Greg is in the hospital after having suffered a seizure. Sean and Seth go with Rob to see Greg in the hospital. Greg envisions them as his turtle bros, which Sean sweetly humours him. Rob has a moment with Greg who seems aware of what Rob is thinking and actually gives him some deep insight on the matter. April shows up to give Rob some support, though he starts to wonder if she's even the real deal.

Looking back at the window he sees Falco about to administer a drug to Greg who's obviously upset by the doc's presence. Without even thinking, Rob runs back into the room and strikes the doctor, causing the entire environment to distort. Falco turns into the Rat King, while Rob becomes Donatello again and Rockwell reappears, this time with Dave Beaver, who is now a member of the Mutanimals. With Dave's help they escape the dream realm and return to the real world.

Interesting idea Jephael that would be fun to see.



Since we see Slash and Rockwell on Shredder's team along with Raph. And the only Turtles we actually see in the Promo are Leo, Raph, Mikey. Donnie and April are in one or two shots, but neither of them say or do anything aside from being in reaction shots. This likely means something big will happen with them and anything they show him in would spoil what they have planned in these up coming episodes.

Early on in this thread there was a lot of debate on whether Donnie would be captured or imprisoned or would he be targeted and killed off.
Personally I didn't see Shredder actually capturing Donnie, because he isn't really the capturing type. But he would need a way to get the mean to create Retromutagen from Donnie.

So we know Shredder needs a means to cure Karai.
Donnie knows how to reverse mutations and April is key.
Shredder isn't really the capture type. He's more like the painful torture or swift death type.
Donnie isn't going to willingly give the formula unless he is under extreme duress and even then he would leave out the April is required portion of the formula.

So assuming Donnie is captured he would hold his tongue even under pain of torture.
Shredder would need him to get the means to cure Karai so he can't just let Donatello die under torture because he'd lose any chance of restoring Karai.
So someone else would have to suffer for Donnie to get him to reveal how to make Retromutagen.
However even if forced to reveal the formula he would omit April from it.
So there lies the catch 22.

And of course now we have to factor in that the Retromutagen does not work on Karai and the mind control serum.

I don't see Shredder wanting Donnie on his team as Donnie does wield a pacifists weapon. So Shredder is more likely to see that sort of weapon to be just as weak as it's wielder. So his views would be that the weak are supposed to be crushed.

That's where Rockwell, Slash, and Raph come in.

Rockwell is a psychic monkey and we have seen he is telekinetic, he can perform mind control, and it's implied he can read minds.

Raph tends to act like a bully towards both his younger brothers as a way of showing dominance. Though Donnie does tend to take his brothers actions too personally some times.

And Slash has attempted to kill Donnie and Mikey on one occasion.

There has been some speculation about an issue 44 situation being used.
Personally I don't see anything along the lines of that as issue 44 was only released a few weeks back. While it isn't impossible for such a moment to be included, I don't see that this soon in the series.

What might happen is Donnie is lewered in a situation by Raph or Rockwell as they are people he currently knows and trusts. He is then over powered so Rockwell could read his mind thus learning the Retromutagen formula and also that April is key.

Once they have that Slash and Raph would be ordered to eliminate Donnie. We then cut to everyone else, April and Casey are dragged away by Rahzar and Fishface. Leo and Mikey rush after and find a battered Donnie unconscious on the floor and that Raph has joined the Foot Clan.

[Tarris Vaal]

I've been toying around with a wacky idea for a dream-sequence type episode in which Donatello gets knocked out during a battle, and finds himself waking up as a human being named Robert who's told that his life as a Ninja Turtle is just a make believe world co-created by his mentally ill younger brother Greg (human Mikey). In the "real world" April is Rob's girlfriend, while Casey is her creepy step-cousin. The human versions of Leonardo and Raphael are Rob's high school basketball teammates Seth and Sean, while Hamato Yoshi is Coach Lee. We also see Shredder as the school principal and the original human versions of Rahzar, Fishface and Baxter Stockman as teachers.

Victor Falco shows up half-way through the story as Greg's psychiatrist who the little boy is clearly frightened of. Rob tries to calm his brother down by playing their Ninja Turtle game together, which the doctor disapproves of since it was that very game that caused the car accident five years ago, which lead to the death of their neighborhood friend and babysitter Timothy. Sure enough Rob does some digging and discovers that Timothy in this world is the same Timothy in the "make-believe" world who became Mutagen Man.........

Love it :) Especially the human names - hard to imagine what Xever would be teaching though.... Would it be ironic if he were a former sushi chef?

Also if Shredder turned out to be a nicktoons version of principal Lewis I will be in hysterics :)

Thinking about it - with this scenario you could have a throw away glimpse of Irma as April's friend - thus satisfying all those people complaining she's dead with a brief glimpse of her 'return'. I doubt that you'd get away with April as Rob's girlfriend though - it'd probably just be that she's the girl he likes and Casey is still a hockey team member trying to woo her as well. Doesn't threaten the 'triangle' set up much then - unless they used that as a point in the story - for example that April does end up with Greg, which only fuels Greg's suspicions that this is a 'too perfect' world.



There has been some speculation about an issue 44 situation being used.
Personally I don't see anything along the lines of that as issue 44 was only released a few weeks back. While it isn't impossible for such a moment to be included, I don't see that this soon in the series.

What might happen is Donnie is lewered in a situation by Raph or Rockwell as they are people he currently knows and trusts. He is then over powered so Rockwell could read his mind thus learning the Retromutagen formula and also that April is key.

Once they have that Slash and Raph would be ordered to eliminate Donnie. We then cut to everyone else, April and Casey are dragged away by Rahzar and Fishface. Leo and Mikey rush after and find a battered Donnie unconscious on the floor and that Raph has joined the Foot Clan.

This seems plausible, though it'd be interesting to see if there are some coincidental parallels between IDW and this scenario. Imagine the order being given to Slash and Raph to finish him and we get a brief show of Donnie being downed and Slash raising his mace to finish him.
I'd expect someone to rescue him last minute and force them to withdraw so they dont get the chance to finish the job.
It would be really interesting if it was April using her fan to knock the mace away and stand between them in that example though. I'd love to see an evil Raph taunt her about the whole Apritello thing; just telling her to run away home with her boyfriend (implied Casey) and leave the mutant (Don) to them.

[yellowmario27]

I've been toying around with a wacky idea for a dream-sequence type episode in which Donatello gets knocked out during a battle, and finds himself waking up as a human being named Robert who's told that his life as a Ninja Turtle is just a make believe world co-created by his mentally ill younger brother Greg (human Mikey). In the "real world" April is Rob's girlfriend, while Casey is her creepy step-cousin. The human versions of Leonardo and Raphael are Rob's high school basketball teammates Seth and Sean, while Hamato Yoshi is Coach Lee. We also see Shredder as the school principal and the original human versions of Rahzar, Fishface and Baxter Stockman as teachers.

Victor Falco shows up half-way through the story as Greg's psychiatrist who the little boy is clearly frightened of. Rob tries to calm his brother down by playing their Ninja Turtle game together, which the doctor disapproves of since it was that very game that caused the car accident five years ago, which lead to the death of their neighborhood friend and babysitter Timothy. Sure enough Rob does some digging and discovers that Timothy in this world is the same Timothy in the "make-believe" world who became Mutagen Man.

More and more, Rob is convinced this is the real world until he comes across Tyler Rockwell who calls him Donatello and warns him that this mutant-less world is in fact the fake one being projected in his mind by the Rat King who is working with the Foot Clan to extract his knowledge of how to make retro-mutagen, and that he and his real brothers are held captive in Stockman's laboratory. Dream-April shows up and Rob shrugs off the illusion as a hallucination brought on by heat exhaustion. He later goes to basketball practice where he sees Seth and Sean as Leo and Raph and later he hears Coach Lee talking in Japanese. He's then called into the nurse's office where he hears that Greg is in the hospital after having suffered a seizure. Sean and Seth go with Rob to see Greg in the hospital. Greg envisions them as his turtle bros, which Sean sweetly humours him. Rob has a moment with Greg who seems aware of what Rob is thinking and actually gives him some deep insight on the matter. April shows up to give Rob some support, though he starts to wonder if she's even the real deal.

Looking back at the window he sees Falco about to administer a drug to Greg who's obviously upset by the doc's presence. Without even thinking, Rob runs back into the room and strikes the doctor, causing the entire environment to distort. Falco turns into the Rat King, while Rob becomes Donatello again and Rockwell reappears, this time with Dave Beaver, who is now a member of the Mutanimals. With Dave's help they escape the dream realm and return to the real world.

I really like this, it's actually amazing. I hope they do something like this in the future. I really loved the rat king episodes