10 Ways To Make Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 Not Suck

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

As long as Casey isn't a 19-yr-old kid who can hold his own against an entire hockey team of 30s and 40-yr-olds, I'll be happy. (Looking at YOU, Blue Door.) :fshifty:

[TrickOrTreater]

Also leaving Splinter while he's still alive seems very Dr Evil-ish but then again their whole plan seemed like something from an Austin Powers movie. I could almost picture Eric Sacks with his pinky raised "I'll give you the cure for one million dollars".

I could totally see Dr. Evil saying that incredibly dumb "like stupid rich" line.

[pennydreadful]

Yeah, this is pretty likely. I think you've got it right. With TF it was Boy meets girl, buys first car. TF2, Boy leaves for college, looses girl, gets girl back. TF 3, Boy finds new girl, gets job, loses girl to her boss, gets girl back inexplicably.

So what's the pattern for PDMT? Girl meets boy, looses job...
I think the rest is somewhat self explainatory.

EDIT: Also, everything said By Galactus in his last post. Very well said.

Well it seems like the obvious way for them to put in some sort of "drama" element - that way they could still hang onto the Blue Door "I left because I had to follow my dream!!!" schtick.

I'm really not sure if they're going to keep Vern around or not for the next one. You'd think that Casey, Mikey and Vern all macking on Fox O'Neil would be a little too much, even for a Bay movie.

Any thoughts on what angle they're going to take on Bebop and Rocksteady? Will they just be henchmen that get dragged out for the action scenes? Can they afford to have them in the movie for extended periods of time? Would anyone want them as the driving force for What Has The Turtles Doing Things in this movie?

Which brings up another question - I assume, based on the ending of the last one, that we'd be getting Super-Shredder in this movie as well.

As I said, for a movie that's probably not going to have much over a 90 - 100 minute run time, they're going to be putting a lot in. Whether they can come up with a plot that's going to use all of these elements without it being a hodge-podge of blurry action scenes and boring exposition will remain to be seen.

I've got no problems saying up-front that I have no confidence in the writers on this project. Despite that, I try to regard the Blue Door script with amusement at its sheer absurdity - I mean, this thing is basically living proof that Hollywood can't tell their asses from a hole in the ground - because the alternative is sitting and letting the thought that people actually got paid a hefty amount of money to write that thing sink in, and that's just too depressing for words.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

...and I will get the blame for people bringing it back up...or called a troll because I don't share an opinion...
I'll take another stab at this...
Their reason for fighting the Foot has always been that the it's a personal battle, the fact that the Foot is conducting criminal activities has always been incidental.

Yeah sure they may fall into that life but when push comes to shove they really have no reason to fight other peoples battles and if you want proof of that it's right here...

They were out training and fighting for 13 years before Splinter told them why. Leo even says they must stay hidden from people who would be allies because they are freaks. The Turtles are conflicted in the section of the comic you posted. E&L made #1 as a one off, and didn't intend to continue the story, we all know this. The first issue has a lot of themes that were changed simply to keep the comic running. They fight crime, and they save people. There is no way around it.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/klankandorbis/Reason1_zps909ef55a.png

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/klankandorbis/Reason2_zps256beb41.png

Or the Fred Wolf show

Season 1 Episode 4 - Hot Rodding Teenagers From Dimension-X

Donatello - Why do we have to do it? It's the human's problem.

April - He seems to have it in for you guys too or have you forgotten?

Even the movie itself never exactly made it clear if the turtles were fighting crime in general of the Foot in particular and if so why? I don't actually mind the idea of them being portrayed either way but they need a reason to do it.

And you left out a lot of context. Seems like a popular thing to do on this board.

He's being a whiny child. And he says "Why us, outcasts of society" and Mikey says "Because it's the only job we're qualified for!" Donnie replies "Oh yeah!"

The characters would be empty if they didn't struggle with the fact they'd would be look at as monsters by the very people they're saving.

The Nick cartoon, they don't even know the Foot or Shredder exists until a few episodes in, so they were fighting crime before the "revenge plot" kicks in. It's not the end of the world if new iterations want to make their own origins. And you have every right to not like one or the other.

Well no there's no actual campaign, I think the majority of people who hated it had their say and moved on but for die hard fans it's a different.

Also I can't speak for the DVD sales and the like but it's not in the Top 10 sellers of last year US or worldwide and for sites that somehow track illegal downloads it wasn't even in the Top 20 worldwide for that. I think the general apathy is more dangerous.

Even if childhood favorites look Bebop and Rocksteady could tempt the people who swore off the movie back it's not like that number was all that huge to begin with which is a bit dangerous in sequel where the budget would surely be increased.

I'm done talking about this...the movie made a lot of money, it was successful. The greenlit a sequel, and it will be successful too. Also, a movie not being in the top 20 illegal downloads is the be all end all, on whether a movie is successful...



But he wasn't murdering people for the sake of murdering them. It was means to end to trick the US government into giving him money. A motivation which doesn't really pass the laugh test. Like I've said I wouldn't want a world conquering "kill them all" Shredder but it would have made more sense than him pulling a con which would never work.

What's particularly galling about it is how unnecessary it was. Every other version they fight for a personal reason but even here a good enough reason would be to get the mutagen to save Splinter's life - something which was an after thought in the movie but would have have better motivation than shoe horning in the whole "city in danger" angle.


mur·der·ous
ˈmərd(ə)rəs/
adjective
adjective: murderous

capable of or intending to murder; dangerously violent.
"a brutal and murderous despot"
synonyms: homicidal, brutal, violent, savage, ferocious, fierce, vicious, bloodthirsty, barbarous, barbaric; More
fatal, lethal, deadly, mortal, death-dealing;
archaicsanguinary
"a murderous attack"
(of an action, event, or plan) involving murder or extreme violence.
"murderous acts of terrorism"
informal
extremely arduous or unpleasant.
"the team had a murderous schedule of four games in ten days"
synonyms: arduous, grueling, strenuous, punishing, onerous, exhausting, taxing, difficult, rigorous; More
informalkilling, hellish
"a murderous schedule"

He was murderous...sorry to disappoint.

Shoe horning "the whole city is in danger" is not what they did, if it was shoe horned, saving the city would have been a coincidence.

I did have a problem with them not even showing the three brothers asking Raph how Splinter is. I didn't know whether they thought he was dead or not.

The things you are sour on in TMNT are very basic things that happen in a lot of movies. So can I assume you just have no tolerance for any movie that has simple "Kill em all to rule the world" as the reason? Or is it only because you want more from TMNT? I just get the feeling the lot of you hate the movie simply because it's not what you want. Which is kind of the same as people only liking it because it's called TMNT.

That's not what anyone is saying. No one really sets out to make a unsuccessful product but actors, directors and producers do sign on for projects they don't really believe in for a multitude of reasons like say a big paycheck or in the hopes of working on a specific high profile movie (they hate) will lead to higher profile work in general (that they'll like).

There's also movies that start with good intentions but then go bad. I wouldn't be at all suprised if years from now a lot of the cast will be less than generous talking about the movie.

Well that's not what you meant, but others have insinuated that's what happened. Or this lackadaisical attitude with the movie because they wanted to cash in. Movies are an investment. They don't know if they will make money until after it's out. Look at John Carter, they were expecting it to be the next huge franchise for Disney, and it bombed. I cannot believe major studios just "yeah yeah sounds good" through all their movies. You have personal attachments to this franchise, and you're just angry it's not what you wanted. And that's understandable.

[Bry]

But if Sacks was Krang in an exosuit than why would Vern hitting him knock him out?

He took a fall so he could stop being in this movie.

doesnt casey become her camera man in one version

He was her fake cameraman when she pretended to be a reporter at the TCRI building in the 2003 cartoon. Other than that, no idea.

There's also movies that start with good intentions but then go bad. I wouldn't be at all suprised if years from now a lot of the cast will be less than generous talking about the movie.

Ah, something to look forward to...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

In the original "Blue Door" script, Bebop and Rocksteady are never explained or introduced; they just show up and lay waste to the lair and Splinter. Then they get caged by the military at the end of the movie. So I'm not gonna be surprised if they get as little introduction or usage in the 2016 sequel.

As for SuperShredder, I assumed that the mutagen is simply going to heal Saki, like it did for Splinter in the lair at the end of the movie. But that's an assumption based on storytelling that tries to be respectful to the better parts of the TMNT franchise and not just "ohcoolSteroidShredder!". :tgrumble:

You summed up my expectations on the writing and production teams perfectly. I'll hope against the odds, but there is no way we're gonna get a film that is an improvement on 2014 TMNT.

I still don't understand how the HELL "professional" writers get paid to write sh*t they don't care about and reasonably good amateurs like myself (trying to be humble :trazz:) have passion for their projects but no paying gigs. :tcry:

Any thoughts on what angle they're going to take on Bebop and Rocksteady? Will they just be henchmen that get dragged out for the action scenes? Can they afford to have them in the movie for extended periods of time? Would anyone want them as the driving force for What Has The Turtles Doing Things in this movie?

Which brings up another question - I assume, based on the ending of the last one, that we'd be getting Super-Shredder in this movie as well.

I've got no problems saying up-front that I have no confidence in the writers on this project. Despite that, I try to regard the Blue Door script with amusement at its sheer absurdity - I mean, this thing is basically living proof that Hollywood can't tell their asses from a hole in the ground - because the alternative is sitting and letting the thought that people actually got paid a hefty amount of money to write that thing sink in, and that's just too depressing for words.

[IndigoErth]

Arg, I hate when you can't think of a word/term... I think "focus group" might be correct but not sure.

Anyhow, that (or whatever it is I mean). Once scripts are written, the writing process for properties like the Turtles really aught to consider including having a (focus group?) select, diverse group of fans they run it by first before production begins. Have them under a nondisclosure contract of course, and maybe they are subdivided into smaller groups that are assigned different portions of script and nobody sees anything more than they are assigned. But really, if the general consensus from the group on certain parts is good or bad, it could be helpful. And then of course still up to the film makers if they choose to take the critiques into consideration...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This. SO MUCH THIS.

A focus group; make it so.

[TrickOrTreater]

I still don't understand how the HELL "professional" writers get paid to write sh*t they don't care about and reasonably good amateurs like myself (trying to be humble :trazz:) have passion for their projects but no paying gigs. :tcry:

Equal parts luck, who you know, who knows you, being in the right place at the right time, and having material that appeals to the lowest common denominator representative, i.e. studio executives.

It's a miracle that good stuff gets out, and it's more or less always been that way in Hollywood.

[Leo656]

Puke: People don't get annoyed that you have a different opinion, it's that in support of that opinion, you habitually dodge points as if they were bullets while dancing around in circles. There's a diff.

Trick: 100% right. "Good movies only happen by accident." It's not that they make bad movies on purpose, it's they that completely just don't CARE, because history has proven that, they're right, people really CAN'T tell the difference. If it literally makes no difference whether they try or not, why try? That's how they look at business, and "we" encourage it, by buying anything with a goddamn brand sticker on it, and saying, "Eh, it's (X), what do people expect?"

How about something decent? That'd be nice.

[pennydreadful]

You're right on the money, Trick. I'm a bit of a nerd for reading on on behind-the-scenes stuff and it seems like in a lot of instances, successful movies are a success despite the studios, not because of them.

Don't even get Leo started on some of the behind-the-scenes shenanigans with past Superman movies. :lol:

[Leo656]

About 87% of my cynicism comes from following that quagmire of suck since I was 5 years old, waiting desperately for the next movie, hoping against hope it would be awesome, and wanting to jump off a cliff a little more with every Tim Burton or Kevin Smith fiasco. Good lord.

People can say whatever they want about Returns or MoS and I'll probably agree with about a good third of it, but I'll forever defend BOTH of them for not only being objectively pretty decent, but still way better than what we ALMOST got. People can knock Singer and Snyder's approaches for various reasons, but it can never, EVER be argued, at all, that neither one CARED. Both of them may have been a little off-base from different angles but they both absolutely cared, and it shows in the material.

With the TMNT project, it's blatantly obvious that nobody cared.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Puke: People don't get annoyed that you have a different opinion, it's that in support of that opinion, you habitually dodge points as if they were bullets while dancing around in circles. There's a diff.


Send me a list of things I've "dodged" and I'll be happy to address them. I haven't dodged any valid points. TrickOrTreater lies and says I've said I love to troll in the past, things being put in the quote box that are out of context.

I love how a group of you act like you know how all movies are made. I'd love to know who here has actually been employed by a movie studio to make a movie. Who's been a PA on a movie set? Anything. Because I'm willing to bet the people who talk in the tone of facts about movie making, have never been a part of the process.

And the people who crucify this movie have yet to offer any better ideas than what we've been given. Other than wanting already conceived ideas from the 80's.

[Leo656]

Send me a list of things I've "dodged" and I'll be happy to address them.

People have spent the last three days doing just fine at that. :lol: I ain't got time for that, it's all been said.

Aaaaand, if you actually spend any time at all studying how movies get made, instead of watching "behind the scenes" puff pieces that litter the menus of every DVD and blu-Ray, you eventually learn that the process almost universally IS the same. It varies case-by-case, obviously, but a lot of decisions tend to be made for the same questionable reasons, over and over again. The decision-making progress behind every major movie is not very complicated to understand. For example, in the case of a studio or even a director, you can usually get a good idea what their next project is going to be, based on what they've done so far. That's just basic common sense.

Anyone who is really bored, could go back to over a year ago, read every single prediction I made about how the movie would turn out, read how I explained WHY I expected this, that, or the other, based on how things went on other productions, and - here comes the twist ending - literally everything I predicted about the entire thing ended up being true.

It's called "deductive reasoning", and it means that if you pay attention, you start to see a lot of patterns in how things work, and can in turn predict how they're going to work next time. It doesn't take a psychic. A person doesn't need to physically make movies to understand the basic process. All they have to do is study it. Precedent is everywhere.

I'll admit, I've wasted more time than most people reading about this stuff, but I genuinely find it interesting. And nobody would ever need to do even half the research I've done on the subject to understand how "the business" side of movies works. It usually IS the same a vast majority of the time. Mostly because, studios are full of risk-averse people who don't quite understand their audience.

I don't know, it all makes sense if you do the work. It doesn't hurt that a lot of guys I work with have done movies and TV shows, and thus I get to hear a lot of stories from people who've been there and done that.

[pennydreadful]

Agreed - I actually find it really interesting. Also I'm a sucker for tales of the insane sh*t that goes on with actors and directors on-set. I spent days hunting for snippets of what went down on the remake of The Island of Dr Moreau. :lol: Dude, now that was a movie that never had a chance.

The "making of" doco I have on my version of Alien 3 was actually surprisingly honest in what it shared regarding the studio's shenanigans as well... I'm guessing maybe some of the people they interviewed felt safe talking about it as they weren't working for Fox anymore.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Eh, sooner or later your predictions regarding what the filmmaker intends to put together will turn out to be wrong.

[Leo656]

:lol: Dr. Moreau... the movie Marlon Brando made so he could construct his own private island made of Big Macs... which he promptly ate the day before filming. :lol:

Alien 3... the crown jewel of "We're making a movie despite not quite knowing how, or which movie we're actually making... script? Who needs one'a those?" :lol: And the studio's all, "Film somethin', we got posters to sell" and whatnot. Goodness.

Eh, sooner or later your predictions regarding what the filmmaker intends to put together will turn out to be wrong.

Oh, it happens, but my lifetime average is astronomically high. Most recently, I was pretty far off base on how "Man of Steel" turned out. I thought for sure they were going to pull the "Krypton never blew up, etc." storyline idea that WB had been in love with for ten years despite how badly it would break the mythology. The fact that they didn't see anything wrong with it to begin with, I thought for sure that they'd use it this time around, just to be "different". Shockingly, common sense prevailed. So, there's one. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, it just doesn't happen much.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

People have spent the last three days doing just fine at that. :lol: I ain't got time for that, it's all been said.

Aaaaand, if you actually spend any time at all studying how movies get made, instead of watching "behind the scenes" puff pieces that litter the menus of every DVD and blu-Ray, you eventually learn that the process almost universally IS the same.

Actually they just make baseless accusations with no proof. It's either laziness, lack of comprehension, or lying.

Well you studied how movies get made instead of watching...well if anything this thread proves, it's that you can't learn sh!t from studying, it's all about watching!

[Commenter 42]

Wow. Really? How much attention do you need? You want to quote me in your sig? Man, that's pretty cool. That's two people quoteing my ramblings on this board. I feel honored. One more an it's a hat trick!

Yipeeee!

[Leo656]

A sig that big ain't gonna last long. That's a size violation if ever I seen one.

Come on man, this is getting beyond juvenile. Seriously, that thing is the height of the screen.

[pennydreadful]

:lol: Dr. Moreau... the movie Marlon Brando made so he could construct his own private island made of Big Macs... which he promptly ate the day before filming. :lol:

I don't know if you've seen any recent shots of Val Kilmer, but it looks like he's taking the Marlon Brando Cheeseburger Route straight to the bottom of the "once relevant actors" list.

And dude, as nutty as Brando was on Dr Moreau, he was just the opening act for the parade of dickishness that Val Kilmer unleashed while they were filming that thing.

Wow. Really? How much attention do you need? You want to quote me in your sig? Man, that's pretty cool. That's two people quoteing my ramblings on this board. I feel honored. One more an it's a hat trick!

Yipeeee!

Dude, just report him. That sort of behavior isn't approved by the mods; they'll sort it out. He's only hurting himself with this type of childishness. In the meantime, you're welcome to join the Logic Shark and I for some pizza. :tpizza:

[Leo656]

I have. It's hard to believe it's the same Val Kilmer. It's like he's in his real-life "Fat Jim Morrison" phase. :lol:

I've heard Kilmer is kind of a dick in general, yeah.

[Commenter 42]

Dude, just report him. That sort of behavior isn't approved by the mods; they'll sort it out. He's only hurting himself with this type of childishness. In the meantime, you're welcome to join the Logic Shark and I for some pizza. :tpizza:

Meh, it's fine, I'm flattered actually, and I'd like to thank the Academy, the Foreign press association, my family, my Barista at Starbucks...and all the little people

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Meh, it's fine, I'm flattered actually, and I'd like to thank the Academy, the Foreign press association, my family, my Barista at Starbucks...and all the little people

It was just luck that you were the one in that exchange...it was just to show how silly this board is.

I'm certainly learning if someone has about 10,000 or more posts...they surely take this place very seriously...

[Leo656]

I'm sure suckas know they got Got.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

I'm sure suckas know they got Got.

UGH if my friends and family ever found out I got in trouble on a message board I'd be ruined...

So petty... No wonder why everyone here is so mad...

[pennydreadful]

Oh Leo, just Google "Val Kilmer difficult" and you'll find numerous stories of his shenanigans.

He basically decided to act like as big a jerk as possible on Dr Moreau because he was contractually bound to do it, but was just starting to go through a divorce. He couldn't get out of it, so he made everyone's lives hell - including getting the original director fired by the studio after only 3 days. The original director had worked on the story for the movie for around 4 years. Kilmer refused to take the lead role so instead was put in as the Montgomery character.

After that, he refused to rehearse or learn his lines, and would rock up on set late (or not show up at all) and say other peoples' lines for his takes. He even burned a camera op's face with a cigarette. They lost all these days of production, and so by the time the studio had scrambled and found a replacement director to send in, everyone at New Line was too scared to say "no" to anything because they just needed to get this thing in the can. Which is why Brando got away with wearing an ice bucket on his head. The new director didn't get on any better with Kilmer than the last one. Between Brando and Kilmer, they lost 12 days of filming. Val Kilmer absolutely ruined that movie.

There's a really good article on it here actually, if you're interested: http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/the-worst-film-ever-made-the-island-of-dr-moreau/

[Leo656]

So petty... No wonder why everyone here is so mad...

They're generally not! They just rarely brook shenanigans such as these.

[TrickOrTreater]

They're generally not! They just rarely brook shenanigans such as these.

Man, irony is just utterly lost on this guy.

[Leo656]

Man, irony is just utterly lost on this guy.

It is SO like rain on your wedding day. :lol:

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

Was dr Moreau the movie Brando told frank oz he bet he "wished he was a puppet so oz could make him work"


Or something like that

[LeoRaph]

That was The Score with De Niro, Brando and Norton. I think I remember reading it in his auto biography 'Songs My Mother Taught Me'. Good read, he sure doesn't hold back.