How will the love triangle be resolved?

[aliena]

I know a lot of fans are getting tired of the whole love triangle thing going on and on, and would love for it to do something at this point. So I'm wondering what everyone thinks will happen to conclude the April/Donnie/Casey love story. There are a few ways to go...

April picks Donnie and they attempt to have a relationship, but it falls apart and ends for good.

April picks Donnie and they have a relationship until the end of the series, with lots of ups and downs to keep it going.

April picks Casey and they attempt to have a relationship and it lasts until the end of the show.

Or

April doesn't pick either one of them and the writers simply drop it without any explanation. (This is probably what will happen)

What do you want to happen to conclude this triangle?

I guess I should also ask what the conclusion to Leo and Karai will be as well.

[IndigoErth]

At this point I would prefer that she just settles it with the both of them, picks no one and they both back off. Casey is of course the more likely choice, but after all the past versions I'm kind of bored of the April/Casey pairing.

Donnie doesn't necessarily have to somehow stop having a crush on her, but I wish the show would dial it back to a subtle, small crush that the viewer is aware of but he's not hotly trying to pursue her.

Hell, bring a 'Nick original' (human... or hell, half alien like her lol) male character into the picture that she falls for, if she has to fall for anyone. (At least it would be a guy for once who's added as a love interest. lol) I mean, it could work in the long run... generally April and Casey end up together, but doesn't mean it happens now. Maybe she'd finally notice him that way as adults, but not this soon.


Now what will the show probably do...? Maybe drag it out until the end and leave the final episode with a love triangle cliffhanger. (And thus many tv sets and other devices were promptly broken.)

[pennydreadful]

I'm also a little tired of April/Casey being the default. Truthfully, I'd prefer that she doesn't choose either of them. Or if she did, have Donnie mature a hell of a lot and then she chooses him later down the track. For now, I'm really sick of the whole thing. Love triangles as a plot device have become so overused in the last few years; it's hella boring.

[ssjup81]

I find the crush more amusing when referenced than annoying at this point. The only time I can think of where I did cringe over it was Chinatown Ghost Story, but only at the beginning. The ep as a whole was hilarious.

That aside, they'll probably drag it out and leave the ending ambiguous so that the viewers can decide whom April chooses or doesn't choose, meaning she could choose neither one of them and run off with Hun! lol. That would be a twist.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Of any television/film series, I think 2K3 handled romance the best. April and Casey grew from friend-of-a-friend to friend to good friends to lovers. Donny always had a crush on April, but it was subtle and he never really acted on it, yet you could easily see it and understand it.

Now, I will say that 2K3 had the worst (modern) version of Casey Jones, as they portrayed him as a total idiot and klutz. For me, I've never seen anything improve on the Mirage Volume 1 Casey Jones. From psychopath to maturing work-in-progress who finally settles down...

[Tarris Vaal]

Given the effort that has gone into it so far, I would expect Donnie / April in some way rather than April / Casey. That said, I would expect it to end either one of two ways;

* Last episode of the series, as the dust is settling from the big climax, April says something to Donnie that pretty much confirms a choice to pursue a relationship with him - followed by an affectionate hug, hand hold or possibly kiss (though I have my doubts on that). It closes the story arc, but so late into the show no one has to write about what happens next.

or

* Something happens to April just prior to series end. She may or may not confirm that she cares for Donnie, but circumstances have evolved that prevent them ever being together (she becomes a psychic being, is trapped in another dimension, is whisked off to outer space, etc, etc). The viewers get an emotional farewell, but there is no chance of any relationship follow through and the writers dodge the bullet.

I can appreciate that a lot of opinion may prefer she choose no one or Casey, but given all the effort in getting the will they/wont they thing this far, I would think that if the show actually did that, it would come across as a real anti climax - why bother leading us on that long if it wasn't going somewhere?

[Meliwen]

^ I kinda like the second option, if April and Donnie does happen. It's really bittersweet.

But at the moment I can't see April and Donnie happening, especially not after that look she gives Casey in the newest clip. She's been friendly to Donnie, but nothing that was ever as flirty as she's been with Casey at times.

I see the love triangle ending the same way it did in the Hunchback of Notre Dame. Quasimodo understands Esmeralda and Pheobus have fallen in love and it breaks his heart. He's sad, but he rises past it, accepts it and gives them his blessing in the end.

[victory_angel]

I think the producers have some idea as to where they are wanting the love triangle to go and where to resolve it. But that doesn't mean they aren't going to milk it for as long as possible.

[aliena]

I find the crush more amusing when referenced than annoying at this point. The only time I can think of where I did cringe over it was Chinatown Ghost Story, but only at the beginning. The ep as a whole was hilarious.

That aside, they'll probably drag it out and leave the ending ambiguous so that the viewers can decide whom April chooses or doesn't choose, meaning she could choose neither one of them and run off with Hun! lol. That would be a twist.

I don't know who Hun is, but could he possibly show up as a teenager and love interest for April? or is his character evil? It would be cool if she started to like a guy who walks on the dark side, sort of like Leo was with Karai. But then again, that's been done with Leo and Karai.

[Powder]

What if, like the character from X-men she's uncannily similar to, Phoenix, she dies tryna save her homies leaving two love struck dudes behind who out of respect to her, resolve their conflict?

[ssjup81]

I don't know who Hun is, but could he possibly show up as a teenager and love interest for April? or is his character evil? It would be cool if she started to like a guy who walks on the dark side, sort of like Leo was with Karai. But then again, that's been done with Leo and Karai.Hun is a 2k3 character that's going to be brought into the Nick series. Honestly I don't know much about him since I didn't watch the 2k3 series...I just know of him.

[Bitsy83]

I was honestly expecting a sort of parallel of the Teng Shen love triangle to be brought in at this point. That was the only reason why I liked the idea of Casey coming in and hopefully seeing Donnie's darker side revealed. Now with Casey being the jerk and Donnie being the possible winner, it just seemed like a missed attempt at some real character development.

I also had the idea that if April and Donnie did hook up after they saved her dad and the human race, Kirby would be against April being with him because...well, I'd assume this dude would have had it up to his eyeballs in mutants and aliens at this point.

[Luckyday]

I think the producers have some idea as to where they are wanting the love triangle to go and where to resolve it. But that doesn't mean they aren't going to milk it for as long as possible.

Which is why I honestly give less then two ***** about this whole sham. People that think this has consistency in terms of character development and progression are going end up very bitter and frustrated. At this point it just white noise. It just there and not going any where.

But if April choose Donnie and we get to see the relationship then I own somebody fanart. :tgrumble:

[victory_angel]

I was honestly expecting a sort of parallel of the Teng Shen love triangle to be brought in at this point. That was the only reason why I liked the idea of Casey coming in and hopefully seeing Donnie's darker side revealed. Now with Casey being the jerk and Donnie being the possible winner, it just seemed like a missed attempt at some real character development.

I also had the idea that if April and Donnie did hook up after they saved her dad and the human race, Kirby would be against April being with him because...well, I'd assume this dude would have had it up to his eyeballs in mutants and aliens at this point.

I agree that it is being set up to parallel the triangle that Splinter had with Shredder and Tang Shen.

So far a good portion of the agression has been coming from Donnie's camp in the triangle. Which could one of the reasons Leo is not letting April come with them while they were going on that vision quest and also while they are scoping the city looking for Karai. Because Donnie wouldn't be able to do the growing and focusing he needs to do if he is worried about April. Or worried about what April and Casey may be doing.

Another reason is that he is protecting her because her DNA is needed for the retromutagen. And he has a hard enough time looking after his brothers without having to look after her too.

For the triangle thing yes it's easy to assume that Donnie will be Hamato Yoshi's role and Casey Oroku Saki's. But Donnie has had to be diverted from stepping down paths the Shredder has before. So the roles could be reversed and Donnie could be taking the role of the Shredder in this farce.

At this point April is still confused about which boy she actually likes as a friend and which one she loves. Given this series habit of referencing and giving nods to other things in popculture. I can see a "Empire Strikes Back" Reference. So for sake of plausablity...Perhaps there is a moment where Donnie surrender himself (to the Foot, to the EPF, to whatever villain)for the sake of his family. April doesn't want this to happen, but their is nothing she can do about it. So as Donnie is being lead away she says the words "I love you." Donnie pauses smiles in her direction and says "I know."

[CaliperCat]

I would much rather see April end up with Donnie than with Casey, at least for now. As fumbling and somewhat inept and over the top as Donnie's efforts have been, he does seem to genuinely like April for just being April. He's awkward as heck, but at least everything that comes out of his mouth isn't innuendo, and he doesn't try to pinch/grope/oggle April. Right now, he's just the overall much more mature option, and I think that he'd be healthier for April than Casey.

I think it'd be cool if they kind of framed their relationship like the did Robin in Starfire's in the Teen Titans movie. Have April and Donnie get together and have a pretty healthy relationship for a while, and then just leave the show like that. Then the fans can decide whether or not they might have stayed together, while at least having everything kind of resolved.

[BabyTurtles]

I don't like the way Donnie is around April.

.......same with Casey but he's less possessive about it. (which isn't saying too much)

and if neither get her it would be toward the very end meaning...this love triangle would still be going...

so my best solution is to just have Casey and April get together and leave the turtles out of it.

Donnie is better off without April.

[aliena]

Which is why I honestly give less then two ***** about this whole sham. People that think this has consistency in terms of character development and progression are going end up very bitter and frustrated. At this point it just white noise. It just there and not going any where.

But if April choose Donnie and we get to see the relationship then I own somebody fanart. :tgrumble:

I'm curious as to when you changed how you felt about Apritello. Would you be back on board if they made a move and April and Donnie started dating and Casey was out of it? Or is it just too far gone for you to like the idea anymore?

[neatoman]

Let's just put a bullet in "Apriltello" and dump it in a volcano already, it hasn't really gone anywhere for two seasons and a third. The closest thing to progression is Donnie slowly understanding it's not going happen, only for those baby steps of progression to be undermined rather quickly...

[Shark_Blade]

One, two, three,
Not only you and me.
Got 180 degrees and I'm caught in between.
Countin' one, two, three...
Casey, Don and April.
Getting down with 3P, everybody loves... UHH*moans*!

A unison of a human; a half-mutant, half human; and a mutant turtle. Imagine that.

[Huzzah]

Frankly every time Donnie seems to move on, April screws it up. She's selfish and enjoys the attention from the two. I've never been a Casey/April supporter mostly because it happens because they are the only two humans the Turtles regularly hang with. Heck in the Mirage comics I believed the short lived relationship between Casey and Gabrielle was more believable. I also don't really care for Turtle/Human relations anyway.

The easiest way to fix it all is to just drop the triangle, let both guys just get sick of April's incessant need for attention and both jointly move on. If necessary introduce a female mutant or two. Mona Lisa, the physics student would make a decent match for Donatello of he wanted to move on, that's right I'm not a Raph/Mona supporter, introduce Ninjara for that.

[Luckyday]

I'm curious as to when you changed how you felt about Apritello. Would you be back on board if they made a move and April and Donnie started dating and Casey was out of it? Or is it just too far gone for you to like the idea anymore?

I have rant multiple times before but when comes down to it, I don't like how being done in the show. I really tiring of seeing romance as a goal and conflict rather then a progression in character development, because when something is a conflict, it becomes a leg of the story but not knowing what to do next when the conflict is resolved will turn that leg into an annoying crutch.

"So what's the next the step with these two characters?" http://i.imgur.com/yPEbEgW.gif
"The **** do I know? Let's keep postponing and hope no one notice."http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/kruemelmonster.gif

This is just more ranting.
But I think what really piss me off the most is I don't see the chemistry between these two in this version. Back before this show even started, out everybody I thought April and Donnie made the most sense. They have common ground and could relate to each other, but April in this version has no interest in science, unless it could benefit her. The writer's has done nothing to show why April would like Donnie and vice versa but instead they go in a lazy direction of just telling us and we are suppose to believe as word of god.

The only thing we can know for sure that April feelings towards Donnie is gratitude and appreciation. THAT IS NOT LOVE! That is feeling you own somebody something you wish to give in return.

[SophieDem]

This is just more ranting.
But I think what really piss me off the most is I don't see the chemistry between these two in this version. Back before this show even started, out everybody I thought April and Donnie made the most sense. They have common ground and could relate to each other, but April in this version has no interest in science, unless it could benefit her. The writer's has done nothing to show why April would like Donnie and vice versa but instead they go in a lazy direction of just telling us and we are suppose to believe as word of god.

The only thing we can know for sure that April feelings towards Donnie is gratitude and appreciation. THAT IS NOT LOVE! That is feeling you own somebody something you wish to give in return.

I just agree. Excuse me, I just need to get it off my chest. I hope you guys don't consider it as bragging in or something. :) Since I am a new member.

I cannot see the chemistry between April and Donnie. I admit that from the turtles the redhead is closest to Donatello but I think it is just because of that geek's admiration and special attention he showed to April. They had so many moments together throughout the series I can't even count but I'm not sure if I want to. Ok, at first, i thought yeah, it's pretty cute that Donnie likes April, sure, a cartoon needs this kind of stuff. The fluff, the pink clouds etc. But not like this.

I seriously feel even the writers don't know what they should do anymore. This just got out of control. They should just drop the whole thing. I cannot feel anything but sorry for poor Donnie shaking him emotionally like a rag doll (hope you understand me :P). He would deserve much much more. I hope in the end April and Donnie can make up as sister and brother, or as friends, at least. Or even before the series ends. I don't want another turtle to like her. That is likely to happen. Right?

[kelligrafie]

Or the writers might decide to go with the original plan which was for Raph to have the crush on her...

:o

Can you imagine a Raph / Casey / April triangle?

[Leo656]

Too bad they can't build a time machine, go back to before the show aired and just NOT do any of the April/Donnie stuff at all.

Seriously one of the very first things that made me think to myself, "I'm not sure I'm gonna like this show." I had a feeling it'd be done piss-poor and overshadow everything else, and boy, if anything, I underestimated just how bad it would be.

[SophieDem]

Or the writers might decide to go with the original plan which was for Raph to have the crush on her...

:o

Can you imagine a Raph / Casey / April triangle?

Never in this entire... That would be a disaster!

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/25000000/Gau-shaking-his-head-nabari-no-ou-25056212-500-320.gif

As a Raphael fan I say that. Let's just keep that hothead with his testosterone level (Venus and "I know how you think she's hot... in an evil kind of way.") and those chili peppers in his pants. I just can't imagine him like that. And Casey would... be in a much worse situation.

[victory_angel]

Frankly every time Donnie seems to move on, April screws it up. She's selfish and enjoys the attention from the two. I've never been a Casey/April supporter mostly because it happens because they are the only two humans the Turtles regularly hang with. Heck in the Mirage comics I believed the short lived relationship between Casey and Gabrielle was more believable. I also don't really care for Turtle/Human relations anyway.

The easiest way to fix it all is to just drop the triangle, let both guys just get sick of April's incessant need for attention and both jointly move on. If necessary introduce a female mutant or two. Mona Lisa, the physics student would make a decent match for Donatello of he wanted to move on, that's right I'm not a Raph/Mona supporter, introduce Ninjara for that.

Or how about Jhanna. She did leave her hair with Donnie as a love token. And the way she slept beside him in Peoples choice was reminisant of a husband and wife.

[Warhorse]

How will it be resolved? Probably never. It will be left in the open all the way to the end, with maybe a hint of what might happen later on after the show is done. Kind of like what happened on Ugly Betty.

[aliena]

Does anyone have any comment on the odd and awkward look shared between Casey and April? Did something happen between them during their three days alone in the house together?

[Shark_Blade]

Does anyone have any comment on the odd and awkward look shared between Casey and April? Did something happen between them during their three days alone in the house together?... did they do the nasty? :o

Or we're just looking too deep into this. [pfft deep. Get it? Haha.. I'll shut up now xD]

Ah, we're forgetting Splinter is also there in that small pizzeria shop, so it's not really possible for anything of the sort to happen, right? He can even listen to the tiniest noise, so..

[CyberCubed]

Why are you guys speculating about two underage teenagers having sex? April and Casey are 16 in this show, why on earth would you think two 16 year olds would have sex?

[Leo656]

why on earth would you think two 16 year olds would have sex?

.........You serious...?

SH*t, look who I'm askin'. I MUST be loopy.

[ToTheNines]

why on earth would you think two 16 year olds would have sex?

Lmaoooo, classic cubed.

I still hate you though.

[Shark_Blade]

Why are you guys speculating about two underage teenagers having sex? April and Casey are 16 in this show, why on earth would you think two 16 year olds would have sex?
...you didn't? Wait, nope. I don't wanna know.

Back to turtles and capril lovin.

[pennydreadful]

... there's some extra crazy in the 'drome today, isn't there?

goddamnit, what have I told you kids about putting acid in the water cooler?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1754248/despicable-me-water-cooler-o.gif

[neatoman]

Why are you guys speculating about two underage teenagers having sex? April and Casey are 16 in this show, why on earth would you think two 16 year olds would have sex?

Hoho! It's funny because because most people start having sex around 16!

[IndigoErth]

April and Casey are 16 in this show, why on earth would you think two 16 year olds would have sex?
Because, uh... Eh, just look up the statistics. :lol:

Seriously, this was sarcasm right?


Now the show will go real modern and have them end up teen parents with a squirming Kraang baby.

[pennydreadful]

Thanks for the mental image, Indigo - now I'm imagining a birth scene similar to something out of Prometheus. That puts the "uck" in YUCK.

[Leo656]

goddamnit, what have I told you kids about putting acid in the water cooler?


It was PCP in the clam chowder. DiCaprio did it.

((If even ONE PERSON gets that......))

[Shark_Blade]

Now the show will go real modern and have them end up teen parents with a squirming Kraang baby.

I can't imagine the childbirth with April popping out a tentacle monster out of her vagina..

[ToTheNines]

You have been really weird today....

[Shark_Blade]

Let's steer back on topic then. How I think it will end? Here's the possible scenarios imo:


1) It won't end. They leave it open ended, April won't choose anyone and leave it ambiguous. It's up to us how to interpret it however we want. So Capritello is going on till the end of time..
2) April chooses Donnie. Sure Casey's gonna be crushed but he'll get over it. There's many other girls for him at school.
3) April chooses Casey. This might destroy Donnie once and for all, but like any teenage crush, he'll get over it in time.. maybe. It's not like he knows other human girls, and it's not like there's other mutant girls around. Unless Mona Lisa suddenly pops in or something. Or Venus (God forbid).
4) April chooses neither. She's had enough and rather set off into the sunset with Karai.


Hmm.. I pretty much go with option 1 or 2 at this point.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Why are you guys speculating about two underage teenagers having sex? April and Casey are 16 in this show, why on earth would you think two 16 year olds would have sex?


Um, because 16-year-olds DO??!! And Casey's 18. Hmm, I suspect a Romeo&Juliet law going into effect here....


.........You serious...?

SH*t, look who I'm askin'. I MUST be loopy.


I know, right?! I LOL'ed so hard I almost choked!


Hoho! It's funny because because most people start having sex around 16!


Yup. That's about it.

Because, uh... Eh, just look up the statistics. :lol:

Seriously, this was sarcasm right?

Now the show will go real modern and have them end up teen parents with a squirming Kraang baby.


I love that idea. Let's go with that!!


Thanks for the mental image, Indigo - now I'm imagining a birth scene similar to something out of Prometheus. That puts the "uck" in YUCK.


Funny, I was thinking more like that scene in MIB where J delivers the alien baby.....


I can't imagine the childbirth with April popping out a tentacle monster out of her vagina..


Well, there's our tentacle-porn trope ref....

[IndigoErth]

There's many other girls for him at school.

No there aren't, they're all Kraangerized, half Kraang April may be the nearest thing to a normal human girl he will now know in that city. :lol:

Or...
5) She chooses neither and someday picks some other guy post-show in the future.
6) She chooses neither and remains single, since straight and single is also an option.

[pennydreadful]

I'm in favor of the choosing Karai option, myself. Which will shock absolutely nobody here, I know. :lol:

But there's no way they'll do that, cuz, y'know... kid's show. And with that in mind, I really don't see them being brave enough to canonize a mutant/human relationship, so I think Donnie's out of luck.

Gargoyles did it, but I never got the impression that a lot of kiddies watched Gargoyles (correct me if I'm wrong... I always felt that the fandom was predominantly teens and adults). TMNT would be a different ball of wax.

[aliena]

... did they do the nasty? :o

Or we're just looking too deep into this. [pfft deep. Get it? Haha.. I'll shut up now xD]

Ah, we're forgetting Splinter is also there in that small pizzeria shop, so it's not really possible for anything of the sort to happen, right? He can even listen to the tiniest noise, so..

I was thinking along the lines of a kiss or maybe he tries to kiss her and she shoves him away and blurts out she wants Donnie, but sex is okay too since that seemed to be what Casey had in mind. :)

I'm beginning to think another option might be in play, the dreaded off screen romance where they show us nothing, but it happens and they briefly talk about it and then they are a couple before it drops off the face of the Earth. Not cool writer dudes, not cool.

You guys totally make my days so much brighter.

[Metalwolf]

Actually, 'teens having sex' isn't as common as it's assumed to be. I read somewhere that it's about 50% or more that are still virgins at 17, so unless somebody lives in an especially promiscuous area, most of those teens will be more focused on grades and surviving school then they are on getting laid. Plus most moms and dads would have their heads if they got knocked up\ knocked up somebody, so there is also that.

Seriously, 'most teens are sexually active' is a myth that needs to die. It's only the 'tee hee, I lost my virginity at age 15 because I think it makes me kewl!' folks that are sorely invested in that notion. :roll:

Anyway, I think April's going to go with Donnie. It's the way they seemed to be leading, so if they throw a curveball and have a Casey x April, I will be sorely surprised.

[Leo656]

To be fair, if you're a guy it DOES make you cool. It's actually literally the ONLY thing that makes you "cool", at least to every other guy in school.

I don't make the rules, I just report 'em.

[Cure]

Seriously, 'most teens are sexually active' is a myth that needs to die. It's only the 'tee hee, I lost my virginity at age 15 because I think it makes me kewl!' folks that are sorely invested in that notion.

This is a map of teens who have had sex with each other at a midwestern school. This is just one school. It's not a myth.

http://www.artsci.washington.edu/newsletter/autumn05/Photos/Stovel_diagram_HiRes.jpg

[Leo656]

If that was my high school you'd need a whole other set of colored dots just for the teachers who were nailing the students. :lol:

[DarkFell]

Now the show will go real modern and have them end up teen parents with a squirming Kraang baby.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/u21ClnxgNc0/hqdefault.jpg
Why not..let's have it be shown!:P
Knowing Nickelodeon, they wouldn't show that and even if that was a deleted scene, it wouldn't make it past the cutting room floor...

[Metalwolf]

^^^ Sort of like that half-alien Maggie baby from one of the Simpson's Tree House of Horror episodes. That would be cool, but I know it ain't gonna happen :lol:

[DarkFell]

Heck I remember that episode. Funniest part was when they went on Jerry Springer.
Sorry if I fumbled up your thread some more.
http://media.giphy.com/media/Ch3B2ty7gY7HW/giphy.gif
--Oh god I could watch this GIF forever..--

[neatoman]

So CyberCubed's misinformed ideas about teen sex aside, Casey and April totally had sex. Obviously they won't outright state it on the show but the hints are there, two teenagers out in the middle of nowhere for months with their roommates constantly going off on their own adventures for hours to days, of course they're having sex! It's arguably what Donnie is worried about every time they're left alone!

[Amaranthus]

Um, because 16-year-olds DO??!!

I don't.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/107/395/Thatface20110725-22047-wlaopv.png

[Metalwolf]

And I didn't. And knew a bunch of others that didn't either. It's far more common then people suppose. :P

Anyhoo, I'm strongly betting April and Casey didn't, likely because she doesn't want that complication and also because she probably doesn't want to risk getting pregnant and passing along her hybrid 'condition' to the next generation.

[Tarris Vaal]

I have to say it would be kind of surprising - though I can see there might be the possibility of it, I dont think it would have escaped everyone else's attention the way they are acting around each other would have changed for that long .

I think that look is more to do with boosting Casey's side of the will they/won't they triangle than anything concrete. Its just posturing to throw off the viewers :)

[neatoman]

And I didn't. And knew a bunch of others that didn't either. It's far more common then people suppose. :P

Anyhoo, I'm strongly betting April and Casey didn't, likely because she doesn't want that complication and also because she probably doesn't want to risk getting pregnant and passing along her hybrid 'condition' to the next generation.

What, they don't have condoms in Northampton?

[Tarris Vaal]

What, they don't have condoms in Northampton?

Even if they did, would you trust Casey Jones? :twink:


edit...

that might be a little harsh - but given that the local store was run by a guy who hadnt slept in years and wasnt even expecting people to come to the store... well I cant imagine that'd help either :)

ANYWAY....

I honestly think that the only thing the new episode did was even up the odds a little. We've had a lot of Donnie/April moments recently, implying the relationship - if it ever was going to happen - was aiming in that direction. That look between her and Casey has just thrown a spanner in the works and returned it to an open question.

Lets face it, the honest answer to the threads question is Who knows?

[RandomtasticFantasy]

Even if they did, would you trust Casey Jones? :twink:


edit...

that might be a little harsh - but given that the local store was run by a guy who hadnt slept in years and wasnt even expecting people to come to the store... well I cant imagine that'd help either :)

ANYWAY....

I honestly think that the only thing the new episode did was even up the odds a little. We've had a lot of Donnie/April moments recently, implying the relationship - if it ever was going to happen - was aiming in that direction. That look between her and Casey has just thrown a spanner in the works and returned it to an open question.

Lets face it, the honest answer to the threads question is Who knows?

This. Anytime there is any progress in the poorly written slock, they back pedal the heck out of it and make April look indecisive or like she is flat out leading the two of them on.

It always felt like it was Casey, with Donnie being the third wheel. The only reason it has gotten more annoying now, is that when Donnie was willing to back out, April reeled him back in, then there were a lot more legit Don/April moments this season, with her liking Casey being flat out ignored or shot down. Which was jarring, considering season two pushed April and Casey to the point the love triangle seemed one sided from Donnie's end.

At this point, I just want it to end because the writers are horrible at writing it, to the point I would cringe if it was a Donnie-centric episode because it was bound to be more love triangle/April obsession episode. It arguably became the core trait of his character, which is horrible. They have thankfully toned it down so far this season, with Leo pulling Donnie to focus on more important things and I hope it stays that way.

I do believe, however, that they are going to pull a Friends and drag it out all the way to end of the series, constantly pulling B.S. along the way to keep it going.

[victory_angel]

At this moment April likes both boys as close friends and she is confused about who she loves more.

In Northampton she could freely express her feelings for Donnie because there was no one around Casey and the other Turtles.

However now that they are back in the city she knows having a relationship with Casey would be considered more proper by her father and the rest of the city.

For example when Donnie was trying to confess his feelings to her during the invasion. April cut him off because one saying such things was like he was giving up in a 'well since we're going to die anyway, I might as well let you know how I feel about you.' And two her father was in the room and he was already wound up as it is with the invasion. We don't know how he would react to having a mutant turtle expressing his feelings for his daughter, but odds are he would not be happy about it.

[BabyTurtles]

At this moment April likes both boys as close friends and she is confused about who she loves more.

In Northampton she could freely express her feelings for Donnie because there was no one around Casey and the other Turtles.

However now that they are back in the city she knows having a relationship with Casey would be considered more proper by her father and the rest of the city.

For example when Donnie was trying to confess his feelings to her during the invasion. April cut him off because one saying such things was like he was giving up in a 'well since we're going to die anyway, I might as well let you know how I feel about you.' And two her father was in the room and he was already wound up as it is with the invasion. We don't know how he would react to having a mutant turtle expressing his feelings for his daughter, but odds are he would not be happy about it.


I feel like you are giving the show way too much credit. (too many "maybes")

everyone is mutated in the city currently...there is nobody to make April feel uncomfortable if she really did want to get close to Donnie.


Let's think back for a second....

season 1: April didn't really show to like Donnie romantically, but mostly as a friend.
season 2: April is annoyed by Casey at first, but they soon start flirting with each other, which indicates she must like him.
season 3: April kisses Donnie...ignores that she did since then....and gives Casey "that look"

so April is either leading both boys on to get attention....or the writers don't know what the HECK they are doing.

I mean...why can't we all just agree this whole love thing is written horribly?
It does happen....some people just don't know how to write this sort of stuff.

[Luckyday]

I feel like you are giving the show way too much credit. (too many "maybes")

everyone is mutated in the city currently...there is nobody to make April feel uncomfortable if she really did want to get close to Donnie.


Let's think back for a second....

season 1: April didn't really show to like Donnie romantically, but mostly as a friend.
season 2: April is annoyed by Casey at first, but they soon start flirting with each other, which indicates she must like him.
season 3: April kisses Donnie...ignores that she did since then....and gives Casey "that look"

so April is either leading both boys on to get attention....or the writers don't know what the HECK they are doing.

I mean...why can't we all just agree this whole love thing is written horribly?
It does happen....some people just don't know how to write this sort of stuff.

All of this makes me wonder if the writers themselves know how bad this love triangle turning out to be like how the Legend of Korra writers realize this they axe dumb romantic sub plots in season 3.

Either way someone on that team NEEDS to do some damage control that was left from A Foot Too Big. No matter how good April's "intentions" were, recent episodes had only painted her as a bitch that likes to play mind games.

If this was Casey, then it would been okay, because he's playa with a huge ego, but with Donnie it was not cool. It was not cool at all.

[aliena]

I feel like you are giving the show way too much credit. (too many "maybes")

everyone is mutated in the city currently...there is nobody to make April feel uncomfortable if she really did want to get close to Donnie.


Let's think back for a second....

season 1: April didn't really show to like Donnie romantically, but mostly as a friend.
season 2: April is annoyed by Casey at first, but they soon start flirting with each other, which indicates she must like him.
season 3: April kisses Donnie...ignores that she did since then....and gives Casey "that look"

so April is either leading both boys on to get attention....or the writers don't know what the HECK they are doing.

I mean...why can't we all just agree this whole love thing is written horribly?
It does happen....some people just don't know how to write this sort of stuff.

That is what gets me. From the start she seems to ignore Donnie's advances even when she catches him several times admitting things about her, like when he didn't mute it when he shouted his sweet princess is alive and the whole Metalhead thing about stating how pretty she was and she heard it. She always says to just pretend that she didn't hear it. It was almost cringe worthy how stalky Donnie was getting.

I wanted so badly for him to get the hint and just drop the romantic thing, but it gets worse. Then, in a foot too big I was so excited for him to finally be getting out of it and then she kisses him! Good Lord, let the poor guy go so he can move on with his life. We've never seen Donnie sans April for more than the first few minutes of the first episode. What was he like before the whole April thing took him over?

Okay, sorry to vent, but I just don't like April that much. She's a bit too arrogant maybe? I'm not sure what it is, bratty? Maybe she's too bratty. I don't know for sure, but something about her rubs me the wrong way. It has from the start. If I knew it wouldn't ruin the whole show, I'd almost like to see Donnie find another girl that he likes better and leaves April in the dust for, that would show her.

If Donnie falls in love with someone, I want it to be mutual because they meet and have things in common and then start to like each other, not one sided and forced. I think the writers are just thinking, hey, lets throw a bone to those who are shipping Donnie and April by putting in this kiss or this line or this look. I'm not sure they have an end game for it though.

[Leo656]

like when he didn't mute it when he shouted his sweet princess is alive

Sh*t like that is what makes me HATE Donnie on this show. In my experience, girls HATE when guys talk about them like that, unless they're already in a relationship with them. This is the kind of thing that gets guys the "You don't love Me, you love the IDEA of 'Me'" speech.

Every time Donnie opens his F'n mouth about her I just want to smash the TV.

[neatoman]

Sh*t like that is what makes me HATE Donnie on this show. In my experience, girls HATE when guys talk about them like that, unless they're already in a relationship with them. This is the kind of thing that gets guys the "You don't love Me, you love the IDEA of 'Me'" speech.

Every time Donnie opens his F'n mouth about her I just want to smash the TV.

Indeed, it stopped being charming early in season 1. It's just creepy at this point.

[BabyTurtles]

Sh*t like that is what makes me HATE Donnie on this show. In my experience, girls HATE when guys talk about them like that, unless they're already in a relationship with them. This is the kind of thing that gets guys the "You don't love Me, you love the IDEA of 'Me'" speech.

Every time Donnie opens his F'n mouth about her I just want to smash the TV.

Yea, if some dude started calling me his sweet Chinchilla, that would straight up creep me out.

Too bad the writers didn't let Donnie learn in a Foot Too Big like he was supposed to.

[pennydreadful]

Even in a relationship, that type of nonsense is pretty gag-inducing. If the bae ever referred to me as "princess" or "my sweet chinchilla" or any of that other shiz in a serious way, I'd stick his head in the toilet and flush.

[ssjup81]

After watching the recent ep, I think that some are looking too much into that look Casey and April had. I really think both were awkward because they'll be stuck close to each other in a cramped space. In North Hampton, April, I'm assuming, had her own room, her own space, and a lot of privacy. In the pizza place, I doubt this'll be the case entirely since the place wasn't built for that.

Even when she stayed at the lair in season 1, I was under the impression that she probably had her own private space away from the other guys, just like Karai did.

So yeah, I think that's what it was from both sides. They are teenagers, after all. Even though I had a lot of guy friends, I know I would've felt weird if I had to share a sleeping space with them at that age.Yea, if some dude started calling me his sweet Chinchilla, that would straight up creep me out.I don't think this would bother me, actually...because I would think the guy was joking and laugh. I would then say, "Okay, what do you want my help with? You're obviously sucking up for something"...but maybe I feel this way because I have guy friends. Always have, even from a young age, so if I heard a guy talking goofy like that in front of me like Donnie, I wouldn't think anything of it. Giving me the music box, though, THAT would, epsecially if I don't like the guy back.Too bad the writers didn't let Donnie learn in a Foot Too Big like he was supposed to.How could he if April kissed him? That's not Donnie's fault at all. It's April's. Even the other kisses she's given him, it was no big deal. They were kisses of gratitude (she was so happy) and thanks. That one was...well...unnecessary. There was no real reason for it, unless she likes him back and was saying, "Don't give up on me yet....just cool it". Donnie's trying to get her attention feels natural to me anyway. It's normal to go out of your way to try attracting the girl/guy you like in some way or form. For some people it's subtle (Leo with Karai) and for others, it's a bit more obvious or the person is loud about it (like Casey). Donnie is somewhere in the middle, imo. That's all Donnie's doing anyway. I think it's more instinctive than anything else. It's like Steve Urkel on Family Matters. He always went out of his way to get Laura's attention, to the point of becoming "Stefan", which did work on Laura. Laura did like Stefan...but realized she missed Steve's goofy personality and friendship.

Anyway, to me, April's always been affectionate with him. Even in season 1, who did she usually hug or run to first, Donnie. No prompting from Donnie necessary...she just did it.

[Leo656]

Even in a relationship, that type of nonsense is pretty gag-inducing. If the bae ever referred to me as "princess" or "my sweet chinchilla" or any of that other shiz in a serious way, I'd stick his head in the toilet and flush.

Diff'rent Strokes to move the world. My wife likes that kinda thing. From me, anyway. When other guys try it she gets pretty angry b/c she gets disgusted when people try and disrespect our relationship. But she loves when I do it.

[ssjup81]

Diff'rent Strokes to move the world. My wife likes that kinda thing. From me, anyway. When other guys try it she gets pretty angry b/c she gets disgusted when people try and disrespect our relationship. But she loves when I do it.I would hope so. I personally would hate it if my significant other called me pet names...seriously. Too cheesy and I'm not hte romantic type. That's why if a guy friend called me his chinchilla or something else equally nauseatingly cheesy, I wouldn't think anything of it nor would I take it seriously because I would think he's sucking up for something or trying to get me on his good side and laugh.

[Leo656]

Honestly, it seems to go over better with people who are semi-insecure. It makes them feel special. I've noticed that a lot of people who are more confident/secure find it to be kind of pandering.

Like I tell folks at the gym, "Everyone's an individual."

[pennydreadful]

Yeah, it would irritate the crap out of me as I'd find it condescending (even if it wasn't meant that way)... plus I'm one of the least romantic people on earth. But as you said, different strokes and all! :)

[BabyTurtles]

How could he if April kissed him? That's not Donnie's fault at all. It's April's.

When I said "Donnie should have learned."

I meant the WRITERS should have let Donnie learn.

but they didn't allow him to when they let April kiss him.

[victory_angel]

Remember Donnie has never encountered a girl before April. Before her the only girls he's ever seen were on TV. So you can't expect him to know how to behave around someone of the opposite gender if he's been surrounded by guys his whole life.

And through out his time with April he does pay attention to how she reacts to him and his attempts to get her attention. So if she doesn't seem to like it or doesn't seem all that appreciative, he doesn't do that ever again. So season one, yes he does come across rather strong in his feelings for April. But April doesn't fault him for it because she is aware that he's never been around an actual female before. Now if Donnie was a human and had these behaviors yes it would be creepy.

I remember dating a guy from I dated in Anime Club when I was attending Diablo Valley College. On our first date we had Sukiyaki at a Japanese Resturant and went to watch Goblet of Fire. Since it was around midnight when we left the theater, he said he needed to stop by his house so he can rest for a bit before he took me home. At one point he told me he loved me and sort of expresses that he wanted me to sleep with him. I refused to do so on the grounds that I didn't know him well enough to do that and when I told a friend about this she was both suprised and appaled that he would want to go that far on the first date. That is what one would classify as a creep.

As for Donnie calling April his sweet princess, during season one Donnie did think of April as someone who should be protected. And he had been nothing but worried about her because she was facing off against another more experienced Kunoichi of whome she had very little chance of defeating. And he was not in a position or place he could help her. So when checks on her to see if she's okay, he is so over joyed to hear she's alright he does stick his foot in his mouth. But she forgives him for it because she knows he's just glad she's okay.

Most of the time Donnie is very respectful of April's personal space. Most of the hugs April inniates herself and any touches he gives her is because she allows him too. There is only one time Donnie trys to innitiate a hug and April gives him a look indicating that she wasn't interested, which he respects.

Casey on the other is more prone to slinging an arm around April's shoulders and he has those "When are we going on a "real date"?" questions. When really he's looking for a chance to COUGH**make out**COUGH.

Season two Donnie has toned down his relationship with April. Partially because he knows his both he and his brothers have taken someone very important from her, and he wants nothing more then to make things right again. Yes he does say he's doing that with the hope that he can gain her back. But still he wants to return her father back to normal reguardless of how she feels about him. Simply because he feels he owes her that...as her friend.

Take the moment when Opal and Bolin meet in in season three of Legend of Korra. Opal and Bolin like eachother from the moment they meet, and Opal is impressed by who he is as a person. But whenever Bolin tries to put on an act to get her attention Opal tells him he is acting weird and she doesn't like it.

The same is true for Donnie, when he is trying to impress April or putting on an act to get her attention. April often just rolls her eyes or ignores him. But it's during the moments where Donnie is himself as her friend that his feelings for her actually shine through and that the Donnie April appriciates.

And while we are introduced to a triangle between Donnie/April/Casey we are also reminded there once had been a triangle between Hamato Yoshi/ Tang Shen/ Oroku Saki. And there are some hints the latter triangle is going to be a mirror of the former.

For example it was mentioned on a couple occasions in season one that Tang Shen both Yoshi and Saki. However when she chose Yoshi as her husbend, her other suitor could not accept it and let his anger and jealousy consume him.

In mutagen man unleashed Donnie has this moment where he slips away from his brothers to check on how April was fairing when he sees her with Casey. So when they return to the lair, he at once rants to the pulverizer about how April must like this new boy because he's human he isn't happy about how April has a new boy in her life.

Splinter over hears this rant and immediately invites Donnie to have a private lesson which was the lesson about learning how to like falling down. Which was ment to remind Donnie that he can't force April to like him back. However the underlying part of the lesson was to prevent Donnie from stumbling down the path that his former friend had so many years ago. Even his converstation at the end did imply that it will be April's choice if she chooses him or not.

I know some of you reading this feel I am looking into things a little to much into things and it's possible that I am. However I don't think that it's entirely coincidental either.

When Casey is introduced to the turtles, Donnie is of course not happy that his rival is even more involved in his life. While he visibly does make it clear he doesn't like the guy. He puts up with him for the sake of his brothers and April. Casey in turn also has suspected Donnie is more then just a friend to April and isn't shy about getting in Donnie's face about it.

Their rivalry is one of the things that irritates April is she likes both and she knows they both like her. She just doesn't appriciate that they think of her as a prize that should be won. And yet in season three when the two of them are getting along better, she says "I thought I'd like them them getting along." To which Raph says "You and me both." Meaning as irritating as they are when they fight, they are more annoying when they get along.

In the season two finally there is a moment where Donnie tries to confess his feelings, but April cuts him off and hugs Casey saying she was worried that she lost him forever.

Part of that was because her dad was already freaking out about the invasion. Having Donnie confess his feelings to her right then and there would not have been a welcome revealation. Particularly since her father seems to be protective of her and we don't know what his views of her dating actually are. And even if he was okay with her dating, having the significant other be a mutant might be to much to hope for. As some of us can recall the moment from the gauntlet where Donnie tells Kirby he thinks April is nice to which Kirby looks at him with a "WTF" expression.

Her expressing feelings for Casey was to help Donnie keep his mind focused on what was at stake which was getting his family, her father, and hers, through the Invasion and out of the city. And he couldn't do that if he was focused on her.

Also in the season two finally we see two different aspects of how the boys see April. We see Casey spray tagging and image of April and himself and April is depicted as someone who should be protected. While Donnie has April sitting along side him his diagram of the Turtle Mech implying that he see her as an equal.

In season three so far Donnie's feelings are toned down considerably. But yes the event with Big Foot did help with that as it did show him some of what his behavior was for April. I mean yes the music box was a sweet gift and anyone could have seen that he had worked really hard on it. However what really destroyed any sentimentality with it was putting a picture of himself on the inside cover instead of a mirror. If it had been a picture of all of them and her father...or a picture of something she personally would have liked such as her favorite flower or poem. Maybe it would have been more appriciated.

But having Big Foot following him around like a puppy, which is more season one Donnie's behavior not season three Donnie. It still gets him to realize that his efforts in trying to bring April closer to him were hurting her. So in the end he tells April that he'll back off and stop pursuing her and that he understands that she'll never see him the way she wishes she would see him. This is the one moment that proves that April does have feelings for Donnie. Majority of the times when April has kissed Donnie, it has been kisses of appriciation and gratitude. And I don't recall Casey being kissed at any point. Hugged yes, but kissed no.

However this one moment April kisses Donnie of the lips/beak. If she just thought of him as a friend, she would have hugged him and said thank you. But instead she kisses him and says he is her mutant as a way of saying "Don't give up on us just yet." His statement of "I understand nothing" is he doesn't really understand what the kiss ment because he had been psyching himself in saying good bye.

How this triangle will continue to form will depend on how the season progresses. Because at this point its still anyones guess as to who April will choose.

[pennydreadful]

Yeah but I mean, it's been long enough now that he should know how to act vaguely appropriate. In the initial stages, sure, I'll cut the kid some slack - but it's just lost all charm for me by this stage. They have tv, they go out in the real world now, and it's not like he's completely unsocialised or was raised by wolves - and the fact that his bros called him out on him stalking April in Season 2 (and he had the grace to look embarrassed) means he clearly knows better by this point.

[Leo656]

Kind of amuses me when people justify the behavior of a TV character as if they were real, when it's actually the writers who should know better.

[Warhorse]

When I said "Donnie should have learned."

I meant the WRITERS should have let Donnie learn.

but they didn't allow him to when they let April kiss him.

You ever think the writers/producers already were planning on a more direct route with Donnie/April during A Foot Too Big, but then maybe shortly after it was drafted, or already started filming, studio execs told them to write something else for the rest of the season? Could studio interference be the cause of the love triangle not coming to an end? Maybe they are afraid of some backlash if April, a human in their eyes, gets with one of the Turtles? It could be one of the reasons why this part of the series is a bit disjointed?

[Leo656]

Maybe they are afraid of some backlash if April, a human in their eyes, gets with one of the Turtles? It could be one of the reasons why this part of the series is a bit disjointed?

I've always said that's a huge reason they never should have opened this particular can of worms in the first place. How on Earth can you "sell" the concept of a human "dating" a mutant turtle, to the majority of parents who would only look at it as "endorsing/condoning bestiality"? You can't. If there's a way to make the idea work, a Nickelodeon show aimed at grade schoolers is NOT the place to attempt it.

There's a time and place to "push boundaries", and there's a time and place to play conservatively.

[UnwiseOne]

Me as an Apritello fan would love an Apritello ending, but realistically I want it to be open ended in which she neither chooses anybody and let the fanfics deal with the ending they want. That's because whether I see Donnie react to any Casey/April moment I just feel sad for the guy, I mean the 'Foot too Big' episode is the way to let the romantic subplot rest for awhile and let the guys have character development and whatnot and let Donnie move on. And if the writers really like to have an apritello ending then they can do that with an unrequited love switcheroo (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnrequitedLoveSwitcheroo). That would more interesting in my opinion. Also it looks like this love triangle is becoming like that of the makorrasami love triangle, in which Donnie becomes Mako, and Casey/April becomes Asami/Korra respectively. I just hope that doesn't happen, which is more likely.

[BabyTurtles]

Me as an Apritello fan would love an Apritello ending, but realistically I want it to be open ended in which she neither chooses anybody and let the fanfics deal with the ending they want. That's because whether I see Donnie react to any Casey/April moment I just feel sad for the guy, I mean the 'Foot too Big' episode is the way to let the romantic subplot rest for awhile and let the guys have character development and whatnot and let Donnie move on. And if the writers really like to have an apritello ending then they can do that with an unrequited love switcheroo (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnrequitedLoveSwitcheroo). That would more interesting in my opinion. Also it looks like this love triangle is becoming like that of the makorrasami love triangle, in which Donnie becomes Mako, and Casey/April becomes Asami/Korra respectively. I just hope that doesn't happen, which is more likely.

......technically April would be Mako since she's the one leading the guys on XD

and Casey and Donnie would be Asami and Korra.....

still I think Asami and Mako would have worked best if Mako didn't cheat on her........twice. They seemed to actually like each other in book 1 before the whole love fiasco.

[CyberCubed]

Nick's Don/Casey dynamic has now tainted my view of Don/Casey in other series.

I can't watch that scene in the first movie with Don/Casey working on that car and exchanging insults without thinking they're fighting over April now. Same for when Don flips Casey off the log in Volume 1 before City at War, or in the 4kids cartoon in the second Nano episode when Casey says, "That little green dude stole my date."

Crap, I'm seeing the Don/April/Casey triangle in all other series now.

[Leo656]

That's in your own head then, pal.

Just a question for those genuinely in favor of April and Donatello being a couple (I don't play that "name mash-up" garbage): Why? Simply curious.

[neatoman]

Nick's Don/Casey dynamic has now tainted my view of Don/Casey in other series.

I can't watch that scene in the first movie with Don/Casey working on that car and exchanging insults without thinking they're fighting over April now. Same for when Don flips Casey off the log in Volume 1 before City at War, or in the 4kids cartoon in the second Nano episode when Casey says, "That little green dude stole my date."

Crap, I'm seeing the Don/April/Casey triangle in all other series now.

Uh-huh, why not just remind yourself that this pathetic love triangle is an invention of the Nickelodeon cartoon. It never existed before, was not considered before and because it does not work at all, will most likely not be reused after the show ends.

Maybe in some future version of TMNT we'll get Donnie with some tiny (non-obsessive) crush on April that he can easily let go of, or even more likely, it'll be a throwaway gag reference to it.

The "love triangle" does not work because what at first might have been a cute little idea of one of the Turtles having a crush on April, quickly turned into creeper/stalker type stuff. And when they decided to turn it into a love triangle it just got worse...

[Leo656]

Honestly? It almost comes off to me as a way to deflect the juvenile "Ha ha, of COURSE the Turtle wearing Purple is GAY!" jokes people sometimes make, albeit in the most ham-fisted and non-believable way possible. You can almost visualize some Nickelodeon writer/producer going "No he isn't, no he isn't, SEE? SEE?! Donatello is ALL about p***y!" :roll:

It's so damn forced and contrived that I don't doubt for a second that it was at least brought up in conversation as a factor beforehand. "So... Donatello wears purple. Some people associate that color with being gay. I'm not comfortable with that. Can he wear a different color, perhaps yellow? No? How about pink? That's WORSE? Okay then... I got it, let's have him develop a crush on April the very first second he sees her, and then cram it down everybody's throats and never let him shut up about it for even five minutes, just in case people forget how badly he wants to tap that sweet jailbait ass of hers? PERFECT. Everybody to the board room for hookers 'n blow, we're f***in' brilliant."

[Tarris Vaal]

Just a question for those genuinely in favor of April and Donatello being a couple (I don't play that "name mash-up" garbage): Why? Simply curious.

Honestly - for me its less that they might be a couple so much as the potential dynamics that it brings to the storytelling.

Potentially this could have been a really interesting angle to take; It gave a new (ish) and very different perspective on Donatello's character (who - in many instances - does get sidelined as the go to tech guy). It opened up a lot of potential story arcs to follow - Don's awkwardness with romance (which we certainly have covered), the whole situation of whether April or others can accept such a relationship socially, the other turtles feelings on this; potential for heartbreak and how to do deal with it; the struggle for Don to balance his feelings for April and the responsibilities he has as part of the team; how they actually keep a relationship going in the middle of a Kraang warzone if they ever did get together... so on and so on.

Even the love triangle with Casey has got a good amount of potential to it. I do think its been a bit badly handled (it just feels to me like the writers cant make their minds up and a lot of it is purely to screw with the fans. I'd rather they had a clear idea first and just kept it consistent).

Lets be honest, the triangle was inevitable the moment this whole thing started - They cant not use Casey at some point in a Turtles iteration and he has always been April's love interest in every iteration to date. The triangle was always going to happen.

There was - and I think still is - a lot of potentially interesting ground to cover that was brought up from this. The Retromutagen plot hook in particular now has more resonance because there is more of an emotional weight to it (because of Kirby for instance).

In terms of the whole should / shouldn't they thing - I personally dont care. Its not ever going to be a real issue within the show anyway and quite honestly the turtles are so close to aliens now its no worse than looking at interspecies relationships in Star trek/Mass effect/Star Wars/etc/etc. No one bats an eyelid for Kirk running rampant, I dont see the point of getting worked up over this either.


So - to answer your point and to stop rambling on - Yeah, I like the idea of an April / Donatello relationship. I dont particularly mind whichever way they decide to end it (though I would be annoyed if it was just dropped entirely and buried under the rug). I like it because it is prime fertile ground for good stories. The problem is, a lot of the time, its wasted potential.

[Commenter 42]

I sort of hope it actually goes somewhere. Maybe they're setting up a bitter, rejected Donatello?

Taken to it's conclusion, April should reject Don, leaving him a broken hearted angry mutant, which could have very interesting ramifications for the series.

[neatoman]

Honestly? It almost comes off to me as a way to deflect the juvenile "Ha ha, of COURSE the Turtle wearing Purple is GAY!" jokes people sometimes make, albeit in the most ham-fisted and non-believable way possible. You can almost visualize some Nickelodeon writer/producer going "No he isn't, no he isn't, SEE? SEE?! Donatello is ALL about p***y!" :roll:

It's so damn forced and contrived that I don't doubt for a second that it was at least brought up in conversation as a factor beforehand. "So... Donatello wears purple. Some people associate that color with being gay. I'm not comfortable with that. Can he wear a different color, perhaps yellow? No? How about pink? That's WORSE? Okay then... I got it, let's have him develop a crush on April the very first second he sees her, and then cram it down everybody's throats and never let him shut up about it for even five minutes, just in case people forget how badly he wants to tap that sweet jailbait ass of hers? PERFECT. Everybody to the board room for hookers 'n blow, we're f***in' brilliant."

I don't think that I've ever heard gay jokes about Donatello. Even there are gay jokes it was obviously not a big deal for 25 years.

As for changing his mask color, pretty sure white or grey could work. Although I think they could go back to the all red masks from the Mirage era, the designs are individual enough for this show.

[Leo656]

As for changing his mask color, pretty sure white or grey could work. Although I think they could go back to the all red masks from the Mirage era, the designs are individual enough for this show.

They'll never do either of those things for any mainstream version of the Turtles. The standard colors are too firmly established. They could possibly go all-red if they ever do a straight-to-DVD animated film based on Mirage #1, but otherwise, no. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that one, either.


Lets be honest, the triangle was inevitable the moment this whole thing started - They cant not use Casey at some point in a Turtles iteration and he has always been April's love interest in every iteration to date.

Actually, not in the Fred Wolf cartoon at all, never even teased, and literally only "officially" for about 30 seconds at the end of the first movie, never brought up again in that series at all. Casey's totally absent from the second film and he never interacts with April at all in the third one (in fact, the Turtles act like they haven't seen Casey in a while despite clearly seeing April all the time, so he must have been somewhere else completely during all that time). So if you go strictly by what's presented onscreen and not what people read into it based on one kiss, no, they almost definitely didn't end up together in the film series, more like they shared a kiss to mutually blow off steam after going through a highly stressful and potentially traumatic situation. It's possible that they had a relationship beyond that one kiss, but again, strictly in what we see in the rest of the films, there's nothing to enforce that.

I totally get what you meant, though. :) Yes, Casey/April is the traditional pairing and I'm in favor of that.

As far as the rest... I definitely think some of you were expecting WAY too much from a Nickelodeon cartoon aimed mostly at young boys. There was ZERO chance any of that was ever going to happen as you've put forth, it was only ever going to be played for laughs, as it's been done so far... badly.

Fair game though, interesting perspective. Anyone else?

[UnwiseOne]

......technically April would be Mako since she's the one leading the guys on XD

and Casey and Donnie would be Asami and Korra.....

still I think Asami and Mako would have worked best if Mako didn't cheat on her........twice. They seemed to actually like each other in book 1 before the whole love fiasco.
:) I know right. Though the reason I was saying that Donnie is Mako was because in the series finale I interpreted that Mako still had unresolved feelings for Korra but just wants his beloved to be happy. Which is a inevitable conclusion for this Donnie/April/Casey love triangle in my opinion. And I would love see a heartbroken Donnie, because he will be more susceptible to becoming a villain or a well-intentioned extremist depending on how you view it.

[UnwiseOne]

That's in your own head then, pal.

Just a question for those genuinely in favor of April and Donatello being a couple (I don't play that "name mash-up" garbage): Why? Simply curious.

Honesty. I'm not really in favor of it, but it gave me a new side to Donnie. Him being a as normal you can get dorky teenager who has teenager problems.

[victory_angel]

That's in your own head then, pal.

Just a question for those genuinely in favor of April and Donatello being a couple (I don't play that "name mash-up" garbage): Why? Simply curious.

I like this pairing because it's different. Typically April has always been depicted as an older woman (roughly between her 20s and 30's) so she has always served as a big sister figure and mother figure to the Turtles. And as Casey is the only male human who also is friends with the turtles on a regular basis it's a given that they would fall in love or have an attraction to one another.

However this is the first incarnation in which April is roughly the same age of the Turtles. The writers have had some hints that the love triangle between Donnie/April/Casey is ment to reflect/mirror/juxtipose the love triangle between Splinter/Tang Shen/Shredder. And it gave the love relationship a reason to exist.

For example in the first episode there is a moment where Donnie speaks out of turn to Splinter about wanting to go out and rescue those too humans. At first Splinter isn't happy about being rebuked by his most inteligent son, but then when Donnie pleads his case Splinter seems to sense something before turning and looking at the image of his wife and daughter.

If it had just been a simple crush or an infatuation then Splinter would have just said that the girl he wanted to save was someone he barely knew. So that was something the authorities up on the surface would deal with and he refused to hear anything more about it.

So Splinter would have had to realize that this wasn't just a simple crush. In asian culture there is a folk lore concept called the "Red String of Fate". It's an invisible thread (it's only red because in the east red is symbolic of the divine) that connects to the pinky finger of a person they are destined to meet. This thread is unbreakable, it can be twisted or tangled, but it can never be broken. Its sort of akin to how western culture has the concept of soul mates.

http://www.zensationalliving.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/red-thread.jpg

As I have pointed out before Donnie and the other turtles have been living underground their whole lives. And as such have never had an actual understanding about human society out side of what they learned on TV or from Splinter.

Donnie initially does come across as creepy because he has never experienced such intense attraction or feelings for someone before. So he doesn't know how to express them or deal with them. And on top of that because of what he is, he is afraid of revealing his feelings to April because he doesn't want to be rejected just because he's a mutant.

So can you expect him express feelings the way a normal person would not really.

I saw a person early on in this post saying they wanted the ending to be like Disney's Hunchback of Notre-dam. However the actual book the movie was based on was not as happy.

In the actual book Esmarelda is framed for the murder of Phoebus by Frolo and sentanced to hang. Quasimodo rescues her from being hung, but ends up unknowingly handing her over to her executors. And she is hung before her innocence was proven (Phoebus even watches her hang with no remorse). When she dies Quasimodo sends Frolo falling to his death before going to before going to the mass grave where Esmarelda's body was dumped and remains with her until he dies of starvation.

I don't deny the way that plot story is convayed is problimatic, but remember as Raphael said in one of the Archie comics "There is nothing to lighten up about. There are only four mutant turtles in existance and they are all male, that means no children...it ends with us." But perhaps in a future incarnation if they decide to have a Turtle/Human love interest story, they can build on it first instead of having this love at first sight/star crosssed lovers plot mess.

[Tarris Vaal]

I do think it can be concluded well though. I think no matter how uncomfortable it may have been prior, its kept a true enough course that it still could end with a satisfying conclusion.

I dont want to start diverting this thread onto speculation of how it could do that (there are other threads for that), but I sometimes feel a lot of people have completely given up on the depiction of the relationship and even despise it - and there really isnt a need to. Its got every chance of really coming around, regardless of how the writers choose to end it.

Honestly I'm more annoyed with the way the show tends to fall back on mutant of the week episodes (Fungus, Squirrelanoids, Pizza face). Just feels like wasted space for me :)


I suppose another question here would be - for those who really dont like the relationship between Donatello and April in the show, is there a particular reason for this? I often get the impression its more the way it is handled, than the idea of a relationship between them itself.

[aliena]

Honestly - for me its less that they might be a couple so much as the potential dynamics that it brings to the storytelling.

Potentially this could have been a really interesting angle to take; It gave a new (ish) and very different perspective on Donatello's character (who - in many instances - does get sidelined as the go to tech guy). It opened up a lot of potential story arcs to follow - Don's awkwardness with romance (which we certainly have covered), the whole situation of whether April or others can accept such a relationship socially, the other turtles feelings on this; potential for heartbreak and how to do deal with it; the struggle for Don to balance his feelings for April and the responsibilities he has as part of the team; how they actually keep a relationship going in the middle of a Kraang warzone if they ever did get together... so on and so on.

Even the love triangle with Casey has got a good amount of potential to it. I do think its been a bit badly handled (it just feels to me like the writers cant make their minds up and a lot of it is purely to screw with the fans. I'd rather they had a clear idea first and just kept it consistent).

Lets be honest, the triangle was inevitable the moment this whole thing started - They cant not use Casey at some point in a Turtles iteration and he has always been April's love interest in every iteration to date. The triangle was always going to happen.

There was - and I think still is - a lot of potentially interesting ground to cover that was brought up from this. The Retromutagen plot hook in particular now has more resonance because there is more of an emotional weight to it (because of Kirby for instance).

In terms of the whole should / shouldn't they thing - I personally dont care. Its not ever going to be a real issue within the show anyway and quite honestly the turtles are so close to aliens now its no worse than looking at interspecies relationships in Star trek/Mass effect/Star Wars/etc/etc. No one bats an eyelid for Kirk running rampant, I dont see the point of getting worked up over this either.


So - to answer your point and to stop rambling on - Yeah, I like the idea of an April / Donatello relationship. I dont particularly mind whichever way they decide to end it (though I would be annoyed if it was just dropped entirely and buried under the rug). I like it because it is prime fertile ground for good stories. The problem is, a lot of the time, its wasted potential.

What you said. This is my take on the relationship deal too. When I was a kid, in the 70's, whenever any two whomevers liked each other, I never cared a hang if they were two different species or what. If they liked each other, then they would work things out, was my way of thinking. I've never strayed from the philosophy as an adult either.

When Megamind discovered he was falling in love with Roxanne, I didn't think, ew he's an alien. I went with it and wanted them to get together, which they did in the end. As someone on here mentioned a long while back, we don't need to see the sex taking place nor do we need to see the entire relationship. Just the idea that they have decided to give it a go is enough for me.

As for the turtles though, I'd like to see how they would deal with things in a relationship since we've never seen that before. Such as, how would April's dad deal with her telling him she's dating Donnie? How would his brothers react if Donnie and April actually decided to be a couple? What would their dates be like? How would they act as a couple? Hand holding, Kissing, snuggling, whispering sweet nothings? I know to some hard core fans this is an abomination, but I'm willing to go there to change things up.

I just don't want it shoved down my throat. It needs to be in doses and there needs to be full episodes where nothing romantic happens and the guys are off on their own without April. This very reason is why I can't wait to see what they do with Mikey and Renet. I still can't see Mikey thinking he likes a girl or is attracted to a girl. I can't see it.

Then there's Raph. His love will most likely burn hot, but then again they may not give him a love interest and since it seems his character is standing still, that would be a shame. Unless they give him something else to make his character grow.

[IndigoErth]

I'd be just fine if it was left to a light, mutual puppy love kind of thing that's just simply hinted at now and then. And would probably be more relateable anyhow to some of the show's actual target age demographic rather than if the characters went about it like high schoolers.


Serously, I just saw this in the red "breaking news" bar on Huffington Posts's website: "Man-On-Dolphin [cough] Documentary Makes Big Splash At Film Festival".

I do not even want to know. :teek: However at the point that whatever that is there was made (maybe it's not really what it sounds like? please?) and a respected news site posts something about it... I think we are way beyond being too sensitive over what happens with fictional characters who have no baring on real life. :teek::lol: (Give me April and Donnie any day over what ever that was about... Eek.)

[pennydreadful]

Tarris and aliena nailed it; what's frustrating to me is not that they're putting romance in the show - it's the godawful execution.

I appreciate that there are plenty of fans who don't want romance in TMNT and hey, that's fine. Myself, it's something that I am interested in seeing. Maybe it's part of why I read so much fanfic - I'm not only interested in their love lives, I'm interested in generally exploring what their lives are like when they're not taking on the bad guys. I want to know what happens behind the scenes, what goes on outside of what we see in the shows and the comics and the movies.

Despite still having some relationships in the canon (ie Ninjara, Serilicus etc), it's not something that the fans have ever really had the chance to see fleshed out in detail. There's a lot of potential for interesting stories, showing new facets of the characters.

[ToTheNines]

The funniest thing about all of this is before the series aired and it was revealed that Donnie would be in love with April, everyone was like "oh no, this will be the worst thing ever."

Then a little bit into season 1 we were like "no, it's alright. Kinda funny sometimes."

And now we're like "oh no, it is the worst thing ever." LOL

[BabyTurtles]

The funniest thing about all of this is before the series aired and it was revealed that Donnie would be in love with April, everyone was like "oh no, this will be the worst thing ever."

Then a little bit into season 1 we were like "no, it's alright. Kinda funny sometimes."

And now we're like "oh no, it is the worst thing ever." LOL

hey that just proves we at least tried giving it a chance XD

[Luckyday]

Perhaps it was bad idea to expect romance to be serious and realistic if the show is cater to the Y7 demographic. Maybe in the future with a TV-PG rated, writers will be able to address it as just something that happens when growing up like Adventure Time instead either looking down on it or hype it up as a big epic romance like freaking Twilight by Stephenie Meyer

One thing that bothered me is Donnie's love at first sight. If we or humans in general are gobsmacked by way they look then one would want to wonder how strange we appear in their eyes.

Now I am not saying it could never happen but even with both creatures being equal sentient beings, they are still two very different species with one that lay eggs and leave every other year like it's a holiday and the other ill fated to have a bloody physical exorcism by the nether regions at least once in her life time.

What I am trying to say that if they are going to try writing a interspecies romance then do so with a non human character being just a little curious or have one become close to a human because said human's motivations is noble and aspiration to non-human or outlook that is unique, or just having common ground whether that be empathy of seeing themselves or having passion that no else understands but them. Love at first sight only works if Donnie has a strong fetish with human females with pre notation fantasy behind them and what's laughable is that he telling with a straight face that it real. Why I am getting Déjà Vu? Oh that's right.

http://www.rotoscopers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/frozen-anna-hans-meeting-disney-lemon.jpg

This why Karai and Leo relationship would so easy to write since they have all the requirements on the table. Karai is a rebel to which Leo likes because sometimes his position would often force him to follow the rules, or he might have a white knight complex. Leo's determination to do the right thing is something Karai sarcastically refer as cute but secretly admires as a motivation in life. They both want to be best at what they do and their common ground is that they were both raise by ninja masters.

I don't see any of this with Donnie and April.

[BabyTurtles]

Wanna know the one thing that annoyed me throughout the seasons?

April and Donnie have NOTHING in common with each other and yet I'm supposed to believe she likes hanging out with him and calling him the most.

Just because Donnie likes her doesn't mean April had to humor him and be around him 24/7.

like we could have gotten a big sister April to all the turtles....but NO, the writers wanted to make sure you knew that Donnie liked April so they pushed them in every scene possible.

[IndigoErth]

Now I am not saying it could never happen but even with both creatures being equal sentient beings, they are still two very different species with one that lay eggs and leave every other year like it's a holiday and the other ill fated to have a bloody physical exorcism by the nether regions at least once in her life time.
'Course it's us ladies that got complicated and ended up doing it a little differently depending on species. Men, well, I guess most of them do their part the same more or less be they mammal or reptile, so I can see why the female end of the deal might not really faze Donnie yet at his age. lol

[Luckyday]

'Course it's us ladies that got complicated and ended up doing it a little differently depending on species. Men, well, I guess most of them do their part the same more or less be they mammal or reptile, so I can see why the female end of the deal might not really faze Donnie yet at his age. lol

http://i.imgur.com/hg7Psqv.gif

But I do see a trend of human male characters getting it on with female humanoids while us gals tend to settle for Cthulhu.

[IndigoErth]

:lol: Not sure I quite caught that, but yeah.. I think. Bet few would take issue if it was Casey with mutant interests. :trazz:

[DarkFell]

Wonder how much confusion it would cause if the Donnie/April/Casey affair just stopped.
Everyone in the show would just go on throughout the show and pretend that none of it ever happened.

[Luckyday]

:lol: Not sure I quite caught that, but yeah.. I think. Bet few would take issue if it was Casey with mutant interests. :trazz:

I was hinting to hentai in generally but it also applied to mostly sci fi as well.

But I am not complaining because Garrus is awesome. ;)

[Leo656]

I suppose another question here would be - for those who really dont like the relationship between Donatello and April in the show, is there a particular reason for this? I often get the impression its more the way it is handled, than the idea of a relationship between them itself.

I, for one, don't have a huge problem with the idea (although Donnie and April in general is not a pairing I quite "buy" for various reasons). My problem is, there's a way to tell that story, to have it make sense, and to have it be believable, but THIS SHOW was never going to be the place for it, because it's a Nick show aimed at little kids.

In truth, a human being having a romantic relationship with a non-human would be a HUGE deal for everyone involved, involving tons of moral, ethical, and physical complications, and NONE of that was ever going to be properly explored in THIS show. Things like:
- "How would her family react?"
- "How long could they keep it a secret from 'society'?"
- "How would 'society' react?"
- "Could they ever even go out in public together, to do normal 'relationship things' that all couples do? Or what, they just sit around inside watching NetFlix forever?"
- "Where would they live, were they to live together? April forever hiding Donnie in her place, or April, a human being, resigning herself to live in a filthy sewer to be closer to 'her love'?"
- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?"
- And then, of course, there's the "physical" question, which people can't pretend doesn't exist: "All creatures have hormones, and WHAT are those two supposed to do about that, and what happens WHEN, not if, someone finds out about that?"

Again, it's realistically a lot more complicated than, "Awww, how cute, they're 'different' but they're together and that's adorable." The moral, ethical, and physical dilemmas raised by the pairing are real, they are serious, and they were never going to be given a satisfactory exploration or conclusion on THIS show. Thus, THIS show never should have even gone there in the first place. It is simply not the place to tell that story. The writers knew that going in. They just wanted to mess with people. It hurts the show, it wastes time that could be spent on other things, it makes both April and Donnie very unlikable, and that's why *I* don't like it. It's more or less ruined the show for me entirely, because things of actual consequence have to take a backseat to this, and "this" is going nowhere.

[Tarris Vaal]

- "How would her family react?"
- "How long could they keep it a secret from 'society'?"
- "How would 'society' react?"
- "Could they ever even go out in public together, to do normal 'relationship things' that all couples do? Or what, they just sit around inside watching NetFlix forever?"
- "Where would they live, were they to live together? April forever hiding Donnie in her place, or April, a human being, resigning herself to live in a filthy sewer to be closer to 'her love'?"
- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?"
- And then, of course, there's the "physical" question, which people can't pretend doesn't exist: "All creatures have hormones, and WHAT are those two supposed to do about that, and what happens WHEN, not if, someone finds out about that?"

See any of that I would have LOVED to have seen the writers tackle (I suppose they did touch on family reaction very, very lightly but it was pretty pathetically brief) - but you are right, most of it can't easily be touched on in a show like this. Really makes you wish they would make a version aimed at an older demographic that wasn't banished to comic form (something like the old Spawn series)

Having said that, the original Xmen series and Gargoyles were both able to dabble with subjects like this a little more - I know both were aimed slightly higher for age groups, but not that much more and it'd be nice to think that after all those horror episodes early season 3 they might look to nudge the target demographic a little higher (a bit like how the Potter series grew up with the readership.) Wishful thinking i know :ohwell:

- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?

You get an awkward love triangle that drives the fans to despair due to being dragged out over multiple seasons.... wait a minute...


Its only really the last point that would be almost impossible to do in the context of this series (without knocking the target demographic completely out of Nick's comfort zone).

Maybe an official fan request for a Turtles series aimed at 15yrs+ is in order? :)

[Leo656]

To see it portrayed the MOST realistically, it might have to skew even older than that. I mean, to compare to real life, it wasn't all that long ago that, at least in America, if a black guy was caught with a white woman, they both could be legally killed without repercussions. Not "officially" obviously but the moral outrage was such that "the law" would always look the other way.

Imagine the public outcry if a human being was "outed" as having a physical relationship with a mutant animal? There would have to be an entire season JUST about them "going underground" to avoid a lynching. He'd be killed and she'd be committed to an asylum and given electroshock and a lobotomy. IF we're being "realistic" about it.

This kind of thing is why I feel some stories could only be told with TMNT characters, if TMNT existed in a universe like DC/Marvel where there's already tons of "abnormal" characters walking around and nobody cares. That's literally the only place where a human/Turtle relationship would exist without persecution. And even then it's kind of suspect.

[Tarris Vaal]

But one of the strengths of the Turtles is that it can be light hearted - I think a version which could look at and touch upon a lot of these issues without being bogged down in them would work best. Realism can only go so far in a show like this :)

[Leo656]

It kind of breaks the fiction, though. As in, why would they need to stay hidden in a sewer at all if people were that accepting? The entire TMNT premise is based on the idea of, "The World Is Not OK With Them Existing." Adding a romantic relationship with a human being into it causes nothing but complications. If people aren't okay with mutants existing, they definitely wouldn't like to see one of them "date" a human being. And if they're okay with either of those things, then you need to remove the whole "outcasts from society" and "forced to live in a sewer" things completely.

It's just a matter of, you can't have it both ways.

[Luckyday]

If the writers were smart they would use plot outline of the mirage volume 4 by having aliens (it can be either Neutrinos or Styracodons, since they are enemies of both Triceratons and Kraang) come down reveal themselves but insistent that they are not here to invade and want co-exist peacefully.

THEN it would make sense for the writers not bother tackles those serious issues because the strange is now part of the norm. However the only thing is that the turtles have to pretend that they are aliens meaning they themselves can't get too close with anybody so there is still a element of danger. They situation would in many ways similar to what telepathic or normal looking mutants have to go through in X-men like Kitty Pryde, Jean Gray, and Hank before he turn into a blue furry ape man.

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsH/34046-29650-0.jpg

[Konchadunga]

You know, as obnoxious as people make out Mike's crush on April in the movies to be, Leo656 has made me think of one thing it has going for it above this show--it's only played for laughs in the movies. It's a turtle being horny, maybe even creepy, but we know he's not going to do anything truly bad to a woman and he's never so obsessed as to have it push everything else from his mind for very long. They don't treat it as anything that's going to go anywhere, and so then they don't have to look stupid when it doesn't go many places or they botch the places it does go.

Even so, when I remember how Sgt Frog handled the relationship between Giroro and Natsumi, I have to say this show is truly running on fumes. Keroro is not a serious series. It has its serious moments, but it never creates the impression that anything is at stake for very long, and continuity is pretty minimal. Yet it still managed to give us an interspecies semi-romance that was driven by personalities rather than carnality, and did develop its characters.

This series, on the other hand, tries to convince us things are at stake and that something big is coming, but takes too long to get there; the Don/April relationship is only the tip of that iceberg.

[Leo656]

It's a turtle being horny, maybe even creepy, but we know he's not going to do anything truly bad to a woman and he's never so obsessed as to have it push everything else from his mind for very long. They don't treat it as anything that's going to go anywhere, and so then they don't have to look stupid when it doesn't go many places or they botch the places it does go.

Ya never know... if Megan Fox gets script approval for the sequel, we may end up with a scene of Leo walking in on Mikey and April in the shower together or something like that, based on how she talks. :lol:

[IndigoErth]

Ya never know... if Megan Fox gets script approval for the sequel, we may end up with a scene of Leo walking in on Mikey and April in the shower together or something like that, based on how she talks. :lol:
:o:lol:

Only if Leo is allowed to blush and back peddle-stumble over himself in reaction. Highly trained ninja skills are no match for encountering THAT unexpected sight. :tlol:

[aliena]

I, for one, don't have a huge problem with the idea (although Donnie and April in general is not a pairing I quite "buy" for various reasons). My problem is, there's a way to tell that story, to have it make sense, and to have it be believable, but THIS SHOW was never going to be the place for it, because it's a Nick show aimed at little kids.

In truth, a human being having a romantic relationship with a non-human would be a HUGE deal for everyone involved, involving tons of moral, ethical, and physical complications, and NONE of that was ever going to be properly explored in THIS show. Things like:
- "How would her family react?"
- "How long could they keep it a secret from 'society'?"
- "How would 'society' react?"
- "Could they ever even go out in public together, to do normal 'relationship things' that all couples do? Or what, they just sit around inside watching NetFlix forever?"
- "Where would they live, were they to live together? April forever hiding Donnie in her place, or April, a human being, resigning herself to live in a filthy sewer to be closer to 'her love'?"
- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?"
- And then, of course, there's the "physical" question, which people can't pretend doesn't exist: "All creatures have hormones, and WHAT are those two supposed to do about that, and what happens WHEN, not if, someone finds out about that?"

Again, it's realistically a lot more complicated than, "Awww, how cute, they're 'different' but they're together and that's adorable." The moral, ethical, and physical dilemmas raised by the pairing are real, they are serious, and they were never going to be given a satisfactory exploration or conclusion on THIS show. Thus, THIS show never should have even gone there in the first place. It is simply not the place to tell that story. The writers knew that going in. They just wanted to mess with people. It hurts the show, it wastes time that could be spent on other things, it makes both April and Donnie very unlikable, and that's why *I* don't like it. It's more or less ruined the show for me entirely, because things of actual consequence have to take a backseat to this, and "this" is going nowhere.

All your points are valid. If I, a human female, fell in love with Donnie, or Raph :), how long would I put up with living hidden away in a sewer? We'd probably never marry or be able to have kids and there's no going on normal dates or travelling either.

Not to mention letting him meet my friends and coworkers. It would be a completely difficult situation all around and possibly, when I met a human man that I liked, I might break up with Raph(not me, of course).

There are so many situations to deal with and then there's sex. I'm not trying to formulate anything here, but the guys in the movie look like they could be quite well endowed(Just sayin' is all) and would they trade diseases? It's so easy to write fanfiction, but in reality it would be a tough situation.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I think a lot of people are just looking at it like "Aww, so cute, 'love' conquers all!" and seriously over-simplifying all of it.

Also, as others have often said, from Donnie's side it's a lot less "love" and a lot more like "stalking", anyway.

[victory_angel]

- "How would her family react?"

We don't know Kirby long enough to get any idea about his views on April dating. Given how protective he is, I don't think he'd take the idea of her dating all that well. And even less so if the person she is in a relationship with is a mutant.

- "How long could they keep it a secret from 'society'?"

Well obviously that would be something she wouldn't talk about. April can always disquise it and say her husbend isn't very social, or that he's sick, or visiting relitives. And in more extream situations have Casey pretend he's her husbend. And then if a time comes where Mutants and or aliens are more accepted Donnie can be brought out and introduced.

Take Fast Forward from the 2k3 series. It is stated that Donnie, April, and Casey start a buisness firm called O'Neil Tech. I doubt Casey had much of a role as a founder, so he may have been more there in terms of a figure head. While April and Donnie were carrying the company. When O'Neil tech was starting Donnie was more of a silent partner until human society was more ready to accept the existance of mutants.

- "How would 'society' react?"

I think much like interatial and gay marrage were in the past, having any sort of sexual or marital relationship with a non-human would be heavily frowned upon.

With interatial relationships it was frowned upon in terms of having the resulting child essentually being a racial mut. And in the slave days people who were slaves were not viewed as people. They were seen as property or chattle but they weren't seen as people. So if a slave was forced to sleep with her owner authorities would look the other way because it was a victimless crime. And any resulting children were viewed and treated as slaves even though they were part white. Same views are true to day in some parts of the world.

Gay relationships were viewed as unnatural because two people of the same gender can't procreate. And there are parts of the world where people are executed for being gay.

With a human/non-human relationship as sex partners yes that would be considered unnatural because they wouldn't be able to produce children and it would bring up alot of statcutes about beastiality. But it would depend on how open April would be with it. I doub't she would openly tell people that she is in a relationship with a mutant turtle. As I pointed out above, if she was questioned about her love life, she would just say her her husbend isn't social or use Casey as a beard.

- "Could they ever even go out in public together, to do normal 'relationship things' that all couples do? Or what, they just sit around inside watching NetFlix forever?"

It depends on how mutants and non-humans are accepted by human society. If humans haven't accepted non-humans that just means that Donnie and April wouldn't be catching dinner and movie but rather find other means of having fun. Such as runs along the roof tops, sitting and enjoying the night sky. Heck the show even has a photo of Donnie pushing April on a park swing.

- "Where would they live, were they to live together? April forever hiding Donnie in her place, or April, a human being, resigning herself to live in a filthy sewer to be closer to 'her love'?"

A good spot would be the farm house. They could live in a relitively human environment, there few to no people around for miles. Income can be collected via selling chicken eggs, and anything else they can make or harvest there. There is also the option of print on demand shops and Donnie can invent stuff that could be patented and marketed.

And they can have things such as romantic moonlight hikes. Picnics, or just standing on the porch watching the sunset.

- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?"

April has an emotional attraction to Donnie so far, she is far too invested in trying to get her dad back to be interested in a physical relationship at this time

- And then, of course, there's the "physical" question, which people can't pretend doesn't exist: "All creatures have hormones, and WHAT are those two supposed to do about that, and what happens WHEN, not if, someone finds out about that?"

Sex can and will happen. And as for children or having a legacy they can get around that, one such example is adopting children such as children rejected by a family member because of mutation. Or starting something that could leave their mark upon the world.


Yeah, I think a lot of people are just looking at it like "Aww, so cute, 'love' conquers all!" and seriously over-simplifying all of it.

Also, as others have often said, from Donnie's side it's a lot less "love" and a lot more like "stalking", anyway.

Stalking is following and obsessing over someone in a way that makes them feel threatened. Donnie doesn't make April feel threatend. Yes his innital attempts at gaining her attention are awkward, but as I have pointed before the closest thing Donnie had seen to an actual girl was TV. You can't go on the internet and look up "instruction books on woman". And even if you could they would either be written from male perception or it would be based on the views of one woman and how she classifies herself as a person. And what she feels she herself would like in a relationship with a man.

Donnie does pay attention to how April reacts to things he does. So if there is something she doesn't like he doesn't do it again. His master plan was only ment as a list of sinareos in which he can spend time with her and get to know her as a person. If you look at what he indicates his offerings are innocent. Such as if she doesn't want to spend time with him because she's doing homework, one of his responces was offering to show up and helping her study and bringing brian stimulating snacks.

Generally all he really wishes for is her happiness and well being. He wants to rescue her father, because he knows that is something that would make her happy. He wants to restore her father from being a mutant because he wants to make things right again. He studies her psychic powers as a way to help her understand them and control them. He wants to defeat the Kraang because he knows as long as they exist April's very existance is in danger. He sees her as a equal to him and he values her frinedship as much as he values his own family.

Yes he worries about what April and Casey could possibly be doing when they are alone, but thats just part of his fear of losing her to Casey. But he doesn't confront them about what they were doing while they were alone together because deep down he understand that April is going to make her choice over which boy she wants, and there is a good chance the choice she makes is not the one he wants to hear.

[Leo656]

Lots of those are really reaching, sorry. Especially ones with Casey acting as a "stand-in" husband/boyfriend. Get real, nobody would ever go along with that, at least no guy with even the slightest bit of self-respect. That's awful.

[Tarris Vaal]

I feel we are straying from the original question a bit.

The question was how the triangle would end right? I think we are straying onto territory that is slightly different - namely how would an April/Donatello relationship pan out and could it work?

How the relationships ultimately pan out isnt what was being asked. If April and Donatello did ever get together, then a lot of these details come into play - and while I would love to see how the writers tackle these issues (especially the societal ones) the question is how it would get to that point in the first place.


Though I have to agree with Leo656 that asking Casey to stand in as husband is very harsh on Casey (especially given the circumstances of him being part of the triangle). Though VA does make a good point about the farmhouse being a good compromise for somewhere to live and work from.

Anyway

Maybe it was just me, but I cant say that the long term ramifications of a potential relationship mattered as much as having those feelings in the first place. I'm pretty sure if two people wanted it to work, they'd find a way - I dont want to compare Don/April to Romeo/Juliet because it isnt, but R/J are at least a good example of consequences be damned.

So, to get back to the original point of contention - How would the triangle come to a conclusion within the capacity of what the show can do?

We seem to have covered the Donnie/April angle pretty well; what about Casey? Or the argument for neither of them?

[pennydreadful]

... what if Casey were also in a relationship with one of the Turtles? He and April could be each other's beards. :lol:

In all seriousness, it's a complex issue, and one that would be interesting to explore... but it won't happen in this show. I can take the presence of a DonniexApril relationship in the show as just a light-hearted thing and in the spirit in which it was intended, but this bumbling around with the triangle and no clear indication as to how she really feels about either of them (while both Casey and Donnie come on waaaaay too strong and inappropriately at times, IMO) makes for very dull viewing. It's just not entertaining or cute the way that it's being handled.

[BabyTurtles]

They should have dropped Donnie's crush on April the first season, have Donnie learn that he can't force someone to like him....yadda yadda.

Then we wouldn't have had to put up with the love triangle the second and third season.

....then Casey would be better bros with Raph instead of having this love rival srelationship with Donnie.

[Warhorse]

That's in your own head then, pal.

Just a question for those genuinely in favor of April and Donatello being a couple (I don't play that "name mash-up" garbage): Why? Simply curious.

Because it's different and the one thing that would be truly unique to this series.

Wanna know the one thing that annoyed me throughout the seasons?

April and Donnie have NOTHING in common with each other and yet I'm supposed to believe she likes hanging out with him and calling him the most.

Just because Donnie likes her doesn't mean April had to humor him and be around him 24/7.

like we could have gotten a big sister April to all the turtles....but NO, the writers wanted to make sure you knew that Donnie liked April so they pushed them in every scene possible.

Eh, I don't think we know April enough to decide they have nothing in common, and don't forget, Donnie can't just go to places like the movies, zoos or museums like Casey can. Nor, can we assume that Donnie and April may or may not have things in common, because we really don't see enough of April during down time. For all we know, they very well might like the same movies and music and talk about it, it's just not going to be on camera, because this show seems to have this issue that if it's not action or some funny stuff, they don't really want to waste time on the down stuff.

[NoName999]

Because it's different and the one thing that would be truly unique to this series.

Don had a small crush on April in the 2k3 series as well.

And it wasn't even a 1/12th as annoying the Nick cartoon



Eh, I don't think we know April enough to decide they have nothing in common

A problem in and of itself lol

[Warhorse]

Don had a small crush on April in the 2k3 series as well.

And it wasn't even a 1/12th as annoying the Nick cartoon


That was just a crush. Leo was asking why people would want Donnie and April together, and it's because it would be unique to the series. I suggest you read my quote, and Leo's quote as well to see why I said what I said.

[Powder]

Don had a small crush on April in the 2k3 series as well.

That's popular fan-canon. Nothing more. Period.

[BabyTurtles]

Eh, I don't think we know April enough to decide they have nothing in common,

Yea I know! It's the 3rd season and we still don't know April well enough!

That's not good. :lol:

[ssjup81]

They should have dropped Donnie's crush on April the first season, have Donnie learn that he can't force someone to like him....yadda yadda.

Then we wouldn't have had to put up with the love triangle the second and third season.

....then Casey would be better bros with Raph instead of having this love rival srelationship with Donnie.

You don't get over a crush so fast. It can gradually fade, though. Anyway, I Donnie isn't trying to force April to like him. He's instinctively trying to impress her and show off for her (when the plot calls for it because he doesn't always do this) which is extremely normal. Donnie isn't even touchy-feely with her. That's "stop pinching your own butt" Casey's territory.

And despite what some say, to me, Donnie seems like he was trying to get to know April if season 1 is any indication. He had that flowchart of scenarios to find an excuse to impress her and get to know her. Help her with homework and stuff. How else do you get to know people? By spending time with them.

Anywho, there goes my two cents. Back to work I go.

[Leo656]

He had that flowchart of scenarios to find an excuse to impress her and get to know her. Help her with homework and stuff. How else do you get to know people? By spending time with them.


Truly one of the most disgusting things this show has pulled to that effect.

True story? In high school I was in-between chicks at one point and feeling insecure and needy, and there was a girl I was super-into and she wasn't, we were friends but that's all she wanted to be, and I came dangerously close to being one of Those Guys. I never got THAT bad, but I DID do stupid sh*t like, plan out my route between classes so we'd pass by the maximum possible number of times per day, etc. Not only did it get me nowhere, by the end of it we were no longer even friends, because she rightfully found that kind of behavior disgusting and told me to f*ck off. I hated her for it at the time, but now I hate myself for being such a f*cking wiener back then. I'm surprised we were friends - BEST friends - for almost two whole years before she exploded on me and explained what a horrible person I was. It cost me other friends, too, because literally everyone but me could see how clingy, needy, desperate and terrible I was. It's inexcusable, and to this day I'm deeply ashamed of it.

So, I'm sensitive to this kind of thing. Donnie's behavior isn't "cute", it's not "endearing", it's definitely NOT healthy, and it doesn't work. It sends a horrible message that you can FORCE someone to "love" you if you're just the "right" combination of pushy and manipulative.

It's not even a matter that's up for debate. Nick Donnie is a terrible "person" and he doesn't even deserve April, simply based on how he's tried to "win" her like a carnival prize. IF he ends up with her, that's terrible. That would be the worst possible message they could be sending to kids.

[pennydreadful]

As off-putting as Nick Donnie's behavior towards April is, I still find Nick Casey's about a billion times worse. I've always liked Casey in every incarnation up til now, and in this incarnation I just want to drown him. He just comes off as a gross, lecherous little turd who doesn't know when to quit.

Don had a small crush on April in the 2k3 series as well.

Some fans read it that way, but I've honestly got no idea how popular it is or isn't as a theory. I never really saw it that way, myself - I always just saw them as friends. Given his reserved nature, 2k3 Donnie seemed like the type to get bashful about anybody hugging him - whether it was April or one of his bros.

[Leo656]

They're both pretty bad, yeah.

This show... has sh*tty writers. There, I said it. The best thing I can say, is that at times, it's clever.

[Luckyday]

They're both pretty bad, yeah.

This show... has sh*tty writers. There, I said it. The best thing I can say, is that at times, it's clever.

But there might a lot of things effecting the show that can't be sum in one sentence.

It all come down to

*Executive meddling
Just let show do it's own thing for **** sakes and stop forcing it to be a david wise reboot.

*Hellish schedule
It obvious at times when the script feels rush. I would trade 2 years on having nothing it all if meant that show didn't constantly go break after break.

*Not having a proper story outline on where to go next.
I don't know if Ciro production bible is mostly just character sketches or maybe it contains stuff that is undoable by nick standards but you can't just fly by seat of your pants. Plan your ****.

*Unexperience head writer that doesn't knows what **** he's doing.:x
Stop hiring your friends. Being a horror movie buff is not a skill set.

*Shallow understanding of the character April.
It not what she is, it WHO she is that makes us like her.

*Outdated mindsets that girls can only act in a certain way with limited roles.
Get Rebecca Sugar to be a guest writer.

Thats all I can think of.

[Warhorse]

But there might a lot of things effecting the show that can't be sum in one sentence.

It all come down to

*Executive meddling
Just let show do it's own thing for **** sakes and stop forcing it to be a david wise reboot.

*Hellish schedule
It obvious at times when the script feels rush. I would trade 2 years on having nothing it all if meant that show didn't constantly go break after break.

*Not having a proper story outline on where to go next.
I don't know if Ciro production bible is mostly just character sketches or maybe it contains stuff that is undoable by nick standards but you can't just fly by seat of your pants. Plan your ****.

*Unexperience head writer that doesn't knows what **** he's doing.:x
Stop hiring your friends. Being a horror movie buff is not a skill set.

*Shallow understanding of the character April.
It not what she is, it WHO she is that makes us like her.

*Outdated mindsets that girls can only act in a certain way with limited roles.
Get Rebecca Sugar to be a guest writer.

Thats all I can think of.

A lot of good points. In particular, the hiring of a friend to be a head writer. There were some posts by Cubed that were questioning the guy's writing abilities when he first came on, and Ciro himself actually came onto the board to defend him. Really, I found it a bit much that some random dude on a message forum doesn't like someone's writing style, and Ciro comes in here to blast him, doesn't speak highly of Ciro. If really had faith in his friend, then he wouldn't need some random joe's blessing on a message board to back that faith up, or lack of it.

[Luckyday]

A lot of good points. In particular, the hiring of a friend to be a head writer. There were some posts by Cubed that were questioning the guy's writing abilities when he first came on, and Ciro himself actually came onto the board to defend him. Really, I found it a bit much that some random dude on a message forum doesn't like someone's writing style, and Ciro comes in here to blast him, doesn't speak highly of Ciro. If really had faith in his friend, then he wouldn't need some random joe's blessing on a message board to back that faith up, or lack of it.

I remember it was a baxter stockmen episode discussion. I think I was under impression that the attacks on ciro would have been very hellfire and brimstone but when I look at the actual transcript between Ciro and Cube I was like "This is seriously what made Ciro left thetechnodrome?".

It has to be more then that. It wasn't like the first episode. I need to look at that thread again or least look at Ciro's history post because seriously if not then dude is seriously thin skin.

[ssjup81]

Truly one of the most disgusting things this show has pulled to that effect.I interpreted it differently, though. Nowhere did it seem like Donnie was trying to force the girl to hang with him. The chart seemed to have things he can say or do if those situations were to come up, not manipulate them to. The only way I would've had a problem with this was if he'd had something on there specific like, "April takes a shower every night at 10:45, so I will stand outside her door and offer some specially made shampoo made from many herbs to help increase its shine". I didn't get that impression at all from Donnie's chart which the ep itself showed that he overthinks and over plans things. With that much forsight he'd make an incredible chess player. Even at the end, iirc, April mentioned training, and checked that thread of his chart and asked to train with her. The opportunity presented itself and he asked to join her. True story? In high school I was in-between chicks at one point and feeling insecure and needy, and there was a girl I was super-into and she wasn't, we were friends but that's all she wanted to be, and I came dangerously close to being one of Those Guys. I never got THAT bad, but I DID do stupid sh*t like, plan out my route between classes so we'd pass by the maximum possible number of times per day, etc. Not only did it get me nowhere, by the end of it we were no longer even friends, because she rightfully found that kind of behavior disgusting and told me to f*ck off. I hated her for it at the time, but now I hate myself for being such a f*cking wiener back then. I'm surprised we were friends - BEST friends - for almost two whole years before she exploded on me and explained what a horrible person I was. It cost me other friends, too, because literally everyone but me could see how clingy, needy, desperate and terrible I was. It's inexcusable, and to this day I'm deeply ashamed of it.

So, I'm sensitive to this kind of thing. Donnie's behavior isn't "cute", it's not "endearing", it's definitely NOT healthy, and it doesn't work. It sends a horrible message that you can FORCE someone to "love" you if you're just the "right" combination of pushy and manipulative.Which Donnie isn't. He's never to my knowledge forced April to do anything. Trying to impress a girl isn't a problem. It's a problem if said girl said no on the get go and he continues to bug her.

That aside, I still don't get what you did wrong, unless there's more to the story.

[Warhorse]

I interpreted it differently, though. Nowhere did it seem like Donnie was trying to force the girl to hang with him. The chart seemed to have things he can say or do if those situations were to come up, not manipulate them to. The only way I would've had a problem with this was if he'd had something on there specific like, "April takes a shower every night at 10:45, so I will stand outside her door and offer some specially made shampoo made from many herbs to help increase its shine". I didn't get that impression at all from Donnie's chart which the ep itself showed that he overthinks and over plans things. With that much forsight he'd make an incredible chess player. Even at the end, iirc, April mentioned training, and checked that thread of his chart and asked to train with her. The opportunity presented itself and he asked to join her. Which Donnie isn't. He's never to my knowledge forced April to do anything. Trying to impress a girl isn't a problem. It's a problem if said girl said no on the get go and he continues to bug her.

That aside, I still don't get what you did wrong, unless there's more to the story.

Eh, I don't know. I might have agreed with you, but then we have Raphael on the show, pointing out to Donnie "Now you know how April feels" So, if the writers themselves are writing the characters as thinking Donnie is going too far, can you blame the viewers for thinking the same thing?

[Luckyday]

Eh, I don't know. I might have agreed with you, but then we have Raphael on the show, pointing out to Donnie "Now you know how April feels" So, if the writers themselves are writing the characters as thinking Donnie is going too far, can you blame the viewers for thinking the same thing?

I don't know because that's not the impression that I got. To me it was more for Donnie to understand how unlikely and weird the situation was for two different creatures to fall in love.

"I get it now. I'm just a mutant."

He thinks it because he's a mutant and not because of his behavior.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

[victory_angel]

Which Donnie isn't. He's never to my knowledge forced April to do anything. Trying to impress a girl isn't a problem. It's a problem if said girl said no on the get go and he continues to bug her.


Yeah, Donnie is respectful of April's personal space. You can point out the parts in Mutagen Man Unleashed and Target: April O'Neil where Donnie is following her despite the fact she had stated that she didn't want to see him or any of the Turtles again.

However I interprit his actions on checking in on a friend. He knows April has training as a Kunoichi, but he also knows the Kraang want her and the Foot have targeted her simply because she means something to the Turtles. And while she would be able to hold her own, she also

And New York also has other dangers for young woman who are out on the street alone at night. He really hadn't intended on her catching him in Target: April O'Neil. He was just making sure she got home or wherever she was going safely, and she just happened to sense he was following her.

Even during the conversation Donnie doesn't bring up anything that implies or hints that he wants her back. Nor does he force her change her mind. He doesn't deny responcibility with what happened to her father, he just allows her to express her displeasure at catching him following her and them imparts the words of "Somethings are just beyond our control."

Also April has shown she is capable of speaking her mind, so if Donnie was doing something she wasn't comfortable with she is perfectly capable of telling him she doesn't appriciated it.

Every hug, every kiss we've seen Donnie get from her were innitated by April herself. They weren't forced or coersed in any way. The only one that would count as forced would be the peace hug that Donnie and Casey were giving her at the end of 'China Town Ghost Story'

Casey on the other hand has invaded April's personal space such as slinking an arm around her shoulders or generally being a horn dog around her. And April has been very clear about not appriciating his behavior on occasion.

Eh, I don't know. I might have agreed with you, but then we have Raphael on the show, pointing out to Donnie "Now you know how April feels" So, if the writers themselves are writing the characters as thinking Donnie is going too far, can you blame the viewers for thinking the same thing?

Well yeah Big Foot following him around like a love puppy. But Big Foot's behavior was more of an extream case of Donnie's behavior in season one. So Raph is pointing out that Donnie is learning how April must feel putting up with his behavior.

[ssjup81]

I don't know because that's not the impression that I got. To me it was more for Donnie to understand how unlikely and weird the situation was for two different creatures to fall in love.

"I get it now. I'm just a mutant."

He thinks it because he's a mutant and not because of his behavior.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg
This was my interpretation as well, since he pointed out the "I'm just a mutant" thing. Personally, after seeing Fungus Humongus I was under the impression that Donnie was self-conscious over being one.

[victory_angel]

This was my interpretation as well, since he pointed out the "I'm just a mutant" thing. Personally, after seeing Fungus Humongus I was under the impression that Donnie was self-conscious over being one.

Yeah, he has indicated that is sensitive about the fact he's a mutant since season one and that could come into play more if Bishop is ever introduced into the show. A friend of mine pointed out in her review of Monkey Brains that April starts to see Donnie in a new light during that episode because she sees him getting hurt and witnesses how hard it is for him with his brothers and with being a mutant in general.

[Leo656]

I interpreted it differently, though.

That aside, I still don't get what you did wrong, unless there's more to the story.

People can interpret things however they want, and their "interpretation" can be incorrect. I've seen many people here say they feel the exact same way, that Donnie's obsession is inexcusable and the way he is behaving is creepy. And any girl that would want a guy to "pursue" her in that way probably needs therapy. It's not healthy.

There's nothing more to the story, other than, when someone tells you, "I don't like you in that way, and nothing is going to change that," you can't force it to change by manipulating events so that you spend more time together, and hope you eventually wear down their resistance and they just give in and accept you. Just like April, this girl was giving me a ton of mixed signals - hugs, cheek kisses, even saying "I love you" (even though it was followed with "as a friend"), and even agreeing to go to the prom with me - that were encouraging despite her telling me it was never going to happen. She later took responsibility for her part, because while her words said one thing, her actions said another. Her words said no, but her actions said "Maybe eventually", so I kept it up. In the end, she admitted she should have just flat-out cut me off and ended the friendship earlier, rather than put false ideas in my head. I was making her uncomfortable, but she didn't want to hurt my feelings, and in the end, it all ended even worse than it could have if she'd never given me any false hope in the first place.

So, yeah, watching this Donnie/April thing is really uncomfortable because it's almost exactly the same thing. He's being a creepy stalker, she's encouraging him with mixed signals, and it can't end well no matter what, and if it does, WOW, what an awful lesson to send to kids. "100 No's and a Yes, means Yes, so just keep at it, guys, you'll wear her down eventually." Awful. Seriously sick.

[victory_angel]

Stalker no. Stalkers are people who follow and obsess over someone in a manner that makes them feel threatened. April doesn't feel threatened by Donnie, weirded out at times initially but not threatened. If she was threatened by him she would have certainly brought it up to his brothers or Splinter or stopped visiting the lair.

Creepy maybe. But would you have any understanding of how to approch and talk to someone you liked if you've only been surrounded by the people of your same gender your whole life?

[Leo656]

Stalking, has various degrees. And when it's uninvited, it's still wrong, even if there are mixed signals being sent.

I am kind of really uncomfortable with how easily some people are able to justify totally unjustifiable behavior, especially girls. Believe me, you yourself would not want this kind of attention. If not textbook "stalking", it's definitely coercion and harassment. And there's actually laws against all of those things.

"But he's awkward!" is no excuse. It's a cartoon show, it's fake, and it's the responsibility of the writers not to justify such awful behavior.

[Konchadunga]

You want my opinion, every debate over whether this is creepy or not can be resolved by concluding our culture of "pretend you don't want romance in order to get romance" is retarded. People should be completely frank about it. I'm tired of culture getting in the way of nature, which is to get right in there and flash your intentions. Bring back the 1960s!

[Powder]

Stocker no. Stockers are people who follow and obsess over someone in a manner that makes them feel threatened.

Nah, stockers are the guys who put the items on the shelves in stores like Wal-mart.

[victory_angel]

Stalking, has various degrees. And when it's uninvited, it's still wrong, even if there are mixed signals being sent.

I am kind of really uncomfortable with how easily some people are able to justify totally unjustifiable behavior, especially girls. Believe me, you yourself would not want this kind of attention. If not textbook "stalking", it's definitely coercion and harassment. And there's actually laws against all of those things.

"But he's awkward!" is no excuse. It's a cartoon show, it's fake, and it's the responsibility of the writers not to justify such awful behavior.

All the same, if April had a problem with Donnie's actions she is perfectly capable of speaking her mind and letting Donnie know if she didn't appreciate his behavior.

Take her rant at him in Target: April O'Neil. When she says "I don't want to see you again." and starts to storm off. He doesn't run after her or point out reasons why she shouldn't divorce herself from them. He just lets her go."

[BabyTurtles]

All the same, if April had a problem with Donnie's actions she is perfectly capable of speaking her mind and letting Donnie know if she didn't appreciate his behavior.

Take her rant at him in Target: April O'Neil. When she says "I don't want to see you again." and starts to storm off. He doesn't run after her or point out reasons why she shouldn't divorce herself from them. He just lets her go."

But continues to stalk her later. Even though she wants to be alone. (if he was worried about her safety because of the Kraang, he should have told the others and they could have all chipped in to check on April from time to time...and that's it)

He even spied on her when she was with Casey just to make sure they weren't doing anything together. At that point it's stalking......heck even Mikey said it was "creeptastic" when Donnie knew what time she went to the park

all the turtles have said Donnie's behavior is either creepy or annoying(or their facial expressions show it's annoying)

Splinter even told Donnie to stop trying to make April like him.

.......I mean fine...if Donnie learned to be less possessive and creepy then the relationship might have went somewhere...

but 3 seasons of him being this way is too much....it's not fun anymore. The show should have given him 1...2 episodes tops to figure out he was being creepy around April and STOP being that way for the rest of the show.

and I mean the REST of the show. (which means we would need continuity if that's possible)

[aliena]

They should have dropped Donnie's crush on April the first season, have Donnie learn that he can't force someone to like him....yadda yadda.

Then we wouldn't have had to put up with the love triangle the second and third season.

....then Casey would be better bros with Raph instead of having this love rival srelationship with Donnie.

Yes! I think the fact that Casey is more into April and Donnie than being friends with Raph bugs me too. I'd like Casey to be friends with him again and instead Raph is feeling the loss instead.

[Amaranthus]

Yes! I think the fact that Casey is more into April and Donnie than being friends with Raph bugs me too. I'd like Casey to be friends with him again and instead Raph is feeling the loss instead.

Am I the only one that doesn't seem why Raph and Casey are even friends?
This Casey is an annoying, arrogant douche and has nothing in common with Raph.

[Karai Samurai]

Oh please just make it stahp.

1. Donnie is totally being a creep, and not even in the cutesy "omg he's so awkward" kind of way. That's the kind of stuff that gets you pepper sprayed. I wish tv shows will stop perpetuating this notion that she's just playing hard to get and persistence will get you the girl. If she's not interested, she's not interested. But...

2. "A Foot Too Big." Seriously that was some grade A teasing on April's part. What was the point of that?

3. Casey is the only well written character in this triangle. Not gonna lie, he can be annoying but the fact that he acts exactly like every boy I knew in HS gives him a pass.

4. Raph is the only one that can save us from this love triangle monstrosity. He's talked to Casey and Donnie before about their behavior. Now he needs to talk to April.

[BubblyShell22]

The problem with the triangle is that they aren't showing a definitive end to it. If you want April to end up with Donnie, go with it, but stop having her tease Casey, too. If she wants to be with Casey, then go with that, and stop having her lead Donnie on, too. That's the problem I have with this whole thing. Yes, Don's intentions may not have been to be creepy with the flow chart and all of that, but many of us would think that if we found out. Luckily, April never did, but I would think if one of the Turtles told her, she'd be creeped out by it and probably tell Donnie off. I know I would.

But I think the biggest problem is April leading both guys on. Just make up your mind already and stop acting like some tease who enjoys the attention! Between this and her psychic powers, April is definitely verging on Mary Sue territory, and I'm not happy with it at all.

As for what I prefer, I would like to see April with Donnie because it's something different and I don't think Casey would be right for her in this series because he's too arrogant. As long as Donnie learns not to be too creepy about it (and he has toned it down in that department to a definite degree from what I've seen) then I think it could work. Casey isn't a bad guy, but he's a little too egotistical, and I know that if I were April, I wouldn't want to be with someone like that. So that's my two cents on the whole thing.

[pennydreadful]

All the same, if April had a problem with Donnie's actions she is perfectly capable of speaking her mind and letting Donnie know if she didn't appreciate his behavior.

But I think the biggest problem is April leading both guys on. Just make up your mind already and stop acting like some tease who enjoys the attention!

People can interpret things however they want, and their "interpretation" can be incorrect...

Just like April, this girl was giving me a ton of mixed signals - hugs, cheek kisses, even saying "I love you" (even though it was followed with "as a friend"), and even agreeing to go to the prom with me - that were encouraging despite her telling me it was never going to happen. She later took responsibility for her part, because while her words said one thing, her actions said another. Her words said no, but her actions said "Maybe eventually", so I kept it up. In the end, she admitted she should have just flat-out cut me off and ended the friendship earlier, rather than put false ideas in my head. I was making her uncomfortable, but she didn't want to hurt my feelings, and in the end, it all ended even worse than it could have if she'd never given me any false hope in the first place.

This is exactly the problem right here - bad writing and a complete lack of sensitivity. We don't know if April likes both of them but doesn't know what to do, or if she's genuinely uncomfortable and just isn't speaking up because they're her friends and she doesn't want to hurt their feelings.

I don't think there's a woman in the world who hasn't been in a situation in her life where someone made her feel uncomfortable and she didn't speak up. Socially, women are not encouraged to be as assertive when it comes to dealing with unwanted attention. If a boy pulls a girl's hair in grade school, they get told "he's teasing you because he likes you", not "what he's doing is inappropriate". It seems very benign and harmless on the surface, but that's how most problematic behavior becomes accepted as normal in society.

With entertainment like this particular love triangle, Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey etc, women are encouraged to think that this type of behavior is romantic and that they should be flattered. If a woman's not assertive, she's then seen as a tease and if she is assertive, the friendship is often destroyed or she's labelled a bitch who wouldn't give a guy a chance.

[IndigoErth]

Yes, Don's intentions may not have been to be creepy with the flow chart and all of that, but many of us would think that if we found out. Luckily, April never did, but I would think if one of the Turtles told her, she'd be creeped out by it and probably tell Donnie off. I know I would.
Yeah... Personally I'd probably feel less like the person someone was simply kinda into and more like their infatuation and social experiment. :ohwell:

And in response, like Penny is saying, yeah, I probably wouldn't have even said anything. April is a bit tougher of a personality and has been shown she's not afraid to put someone in their place, but who knows.

[Luckyday]

Yeah... Personally I'd probably feel less like the person someone was simply kinda into and more like their infatuation and social experiment. :ohwell:

And in response, like Penny is saying, yeah, I probably wouldn't have even said anything. April is a bit tougher of a personality and has been shown she's not afraid to put someone in their place, but who knows.

I don't know about that. April strikes me as someone who often succumbs to peer pressure and feels the need to act what people expect of her. The only times when she 100% honest is when she doesn't feel like part of the group.

I don't mean this as a criticism but more of a observation.

[pennydreadful]

Well, also when she told Donnie she never wanted to see him again, she'd just lost her dad - so it seems like it takes a pretty extreme circumstance/emotional trauma to get her to tell someone to back off.

She certainly seemed to tolerate Casey dissing her friend Irma every time they hung out together/went to the movies or whatever - so to me, I'm not getting a sense of her being the type to regularly put people in their place. Really, she strikes me as a very passive character: she is influenced by events, events aren't influenced by her. The only time she effects any kind of change in situations is when the writers have her pull another power out of her ass.

To me, that's never what April was supposed to be about. She never needed to be written as a kunoichi or having psychic powers. The writers just did it because they didn't know how to write a regular old human being who is a friend to the Turtles. Which again, comes back to one of my current big issues with the show as it stands now: nobody has any real character development anymore and they're slowly being reduced to bland, one-dimensional characters - the angry one, the dumb one, the leader one, etc.

[Leo656]

To me, that's never what April was supposed to be about. She never needed to be written as a kunoichi or having psychic powers. The writers just did it because they didn't know how to write a regular old human being who is a friend to the Turtles. Which again, comes back to one of my current big issues with the show as it stands now: nobody has any real character development anymore and they're slowly being reduced to bland, one-dimensional characters - the angry one, the dumb one, the leader one, etc.

You're good at stuff.

[BubblyShell22]

See, at first I wanted to give April the benefit of the doubt and thought that maybe she wasn't speaking up because she was confused about who she likes more. But the more things keep playing out, the more I'm convinced she likes the attention from both boys and feeds off of it, thus making her a tease. She's also become whiny when it comes to the guys leaving her out of things just because she's not a fully trained ninja. Honestly, I was willing to give younger April a chance, but she's become very annoying to me lately and far too much like a Mary Sue for my liking.

[aliena]

Oh please just make it stahp.

1. Donnie is totally being a creep, and not even in the cutesy "omg he's so awkward" kind of way. That's the kind of stuff that gets you pepper sprayed. I wish tv shows will stop perpetuating this notion that she's just playing hard to get and persistence will get you the girl. If she's not interested, she's not interested. But...

2. "A Foot Too Big." Seriously that was some grade A teasing on April's part. What was the point of that?

3. Casey is the only well written character in this triangle. Not gonna lie, he can be annoying but the fact that he acts exactly like every boy I knew in HS gives him a pass.

4. Raph is the only one that can save us from this love triangle monstrosity. He's talked to Casey and Donnie before about their behavior. Now he needs to talk to April.

Yeah, maybe he should tell her he is in love with her and to drop the other two and date him instead. I would not put it past them to make that the new storyline. How about a love Quadrilogy? Or would that be a love square?:P

[Tarris Vaal]

Love squared... sounds like a romcom with Hugh Grant.... *shudders*


It does seem a common theme that a lot of people on the board are really annoyed at Donnie's approach to the relationship. I think more than one of us see it and remember either being at the receiving end of a someone like that or worse being that person and it hits a definite nerve to see it portrayed in a way that feels 'shoehorned' - so to say that any indication they might actually get together tends to be rather unrealistic and even a bit forced.

I'm intrigued though whether people think its still salvageable at this point. I mean, imagine you were one of the writers of the show, and the studio execs turn around to you and say that they do want Donnie and April to have gotten together by the end of the show (just hypothetically speaking) - how would you go about it?

For myself, I think its gotten to the point where - to be done satisfyingly - Donnie needs to go through a proper heartbreak. April needs to outright tell him no and he needs to deal with it and try to move on. April could then change her mind much later - perhaps going through a situation that causes her to realise how much she has come to like him - but then its at least on her terms, and her making up her own mind without Donnie 'pressuring'.

Cheesy though it may be, I have seen it happen in real life, and I cant think of many other situations that would work without being cheesier. How about the rest of you? What do you guys think?

[IndigoErth]

With Valentine's Day on Saturday (at least for places that celebrate it and on that date) I wish they'd have had an episode this Sunday that appropriately, albeit a day late, would wrap it up with that triangle business. Such a lost opportunity.

(Although the 14th is a Sunday next year, so if still playing on that day -- Nick, between now and then, a resolution on that please.)

[victory_angel]

Love squared... sounds like a romcom with Hugh Grant.... *shudders*


It does seem a common theme that a lot of people on the board are really annoyed at Donnie's approach to the relationship. I think more than one of us see it and remember either being at the receiving end of a someone like that or worse being that person and it hits a definite nerve to see it portrayed in a way that feels 'shoehorned' - so to say that any indication they might actually get together tends to be rather unrealistic and even a bit forced.

I'm intrigued though whether people think its still salvageable at this point. I mean, imagine you were one of the writers of the show, and the studio execs turn around to you and say that they do want Donnie and April to have gotten together by the end of the show (just hypothetically speaking) - how would you go about it?

For myself, I think its gotten to the point where - to be done satisfyingly - Donnie needs to go through a proper heartbreak. April needs to outright tell him no and he needs to deal with it and try to move on. April could then change her mind much later - perhaps going through a situation that causes her to realise how much she has come to like him - but then its at least on her terms, and her making up her own mind without Donnie 'pressuring'.

Cheesy though it may be, I have seen it happen in real life, and I cant think of many other situations that would work without being cheesier. How about the rest of you? What do you guys think?

Or it could be heart break in the terms that his being with her puts her in mortal danger. Because if he has attachments to her that points a big neon sign that says "She's important" directly at her.

So he feels the best course of action is to just act she doesn't matter. April is at first confused by it and is even upset, but then later realzes Donnie is being hurt by their seperation as it were as well. This causes her to realize that Donnie was pushing her away from him for another reason.

Or he begins to recognize the triangle is beginning to feel similar to the what happened when Splinter was in love with Tang Shen. So he thinks the best course of action is to step away from April and Casey and let them be together even though he is emotionally suffering because of it.

Casey at first is confused at to what sort of ploy Donnie is pulling, but then later assumes that Donnie has actually given up on having April. April enjoys Casey's company, but something just doesn't feel right to her and she feels miserable because of it.

So when Casey asks her if he is doing something wrong, she says she likes him but she doesn't love him.

[Katie]

I find the triangle cringeworthy. It makes me severely dislike Donatello, in fact, I dread seeing him on the show because of it. And they are starting to make me wish April would leave the show.

Why didn't they wrap this garbage up at the end of the Bigfoot episode by having April explain that she sees him as a brother or something. That makes more sense than dragging out the creepy Donatello loves April stories.

It was the perfect opportunity and they screwed it up. Now who knows how long we have to endure this.

[neatoman]

So I think the question here is; why do they still insist on playing up this element that isn't going anywhere?

[Tarris Vaal]

I can only presume it either is - just very very slowly - or it will and this has been just the build up

I could speculate ad infinitum about where it could be heading, (as Im sure loads of us could), but honestly who knows until they get there. My best guess would be that if anything is coming of it, it will happen somewhere towards the end of this season - mainly because I think the Kraang arc is likely to end this season, and the Kraang are linked intrinsically with April. One way or another, either there'll be a big shake up of the love triangle, or it will conclude around then.

[Bitsy83]

This crossed my mind last night: I could almost see a reenactment of the "Leo vs. Raph" fight from the 2007 movie happening between Donnie and Casey. Not scene for scene, but...well, let me explain.

As you all may or may not know, I'm still standing my ground on Shredder hunting down Donnie and sending Tiger Claw to do this. Donnie's still working on retromutagen, but he's finding it hard to concentrate since he keeps thinking back to the "Woodpile" conversation he and April had back in North Hampton. He knows that in order for him to fully let go of April, he doesn't want to leave things unresolved, so he goes out to talk to April.

Meanwhile, April's getting a bit stressed with wondering where her father is, how they're going to stop the Kraang, and just all the major problems that have been going on since they returned to New York. Casey approaches her and tells her that her problem is she has too much "mutated freaky stuff" in her life and needs more normal stuff. He said himself he's getting a bit tired of all the monsters and aliens and needs a bit of "Human closure" as well. He basically tells April that she needs him and he needs her for that very reason: they can supply a normal life for each other.

April thinks about this and says she wants nothing more than normalcy and Casey takes this as a green light. Before April can explain further, he kisses her right on the mouth, stunning her. (This has happened to me on a few occasions where I guy kisses me in mid-sentence and I was too shocked to stop him, but my friends were always like "Really, Bits? You didn't see that coming?") Anyway, of course Donnie hears only the last part of that conversation and when he sees April and Casey kissing, he immediately gets heartbroken. So much in fact that he runs off, just trying to wrap his mind around April wanting mutants out of her life and wanting to be with Casey.

When Casey finally stops kissing April and asks how she feels, she gets her "emotional headache" and knows that someone was watching (she knows it was Donnie, but doesn't tell Casey). Casey however, sees the last glimpse of Donnie running off and tells April he has to go take care of something.

Donnie seeks refuge in an old scrapyard, just trying to calm himself down. He's mad, upset, confused, and just seriously going through a huge roller coaster of emotions. Casey approaches him and tells him how he's gotta deal with April "choosing him over a mutant." Donnie, still in a bad frame of mind, tells Casey that even though April wouldn't want to be with a mutant, he doesn't see him and April lasting much longer, then starts telling Casey how he's not good enough for April and eventually she'll see that and call it off. They get into a heated argument and, Casey being Casey, lets the anger get to him and sucker punches Donnie right in the face. Donnie doesn't really WANT to fight Casey like this, but Casey isn't leaving him much choice and soon the two are going at it.

Meanwhile, Tiger Claw is watching from a distance with Rahzar and his team of Foot Bots. He decides to wait and see how this plays out before intervening.

At first, Donnie has the upper hand and is able to overpower Casey, but this just makes Casey even more determined to win. He starts to play dirty by using his shock gloves and the spikes on his mitts, he even manages to break Donnie's staff. He never gives Donnie a chance to collect himself and just wails on him again and again and again until he finally slams him into the side of a junky car and presses his hockey stick to Donnie's throat. Donnie is trying to breathe, but Casey tells him to stay away from April and how he won her and that she belongs to him...then he looks over and see his reflection in an old mirror or something. This shocks him back to reality and he lets go of Donnie. He's so shaken by what he did and ALMOST did and he (like Raph in 2007) runs off scared.

Donnie, beaten and bruised, watches him go off with a forlorn expression on his face, knowing that Casey didn't really want to hurt him that badly and that his temper got the best of him. Suddenly, he sees a hunting dart in his arm (again, like the 2007 movie) and sees Tiger Claw standing over him. Tiger Claw tells him how the Shredder wanted him alive and is glad he didn't have to spend the whole night hunting him.

Casey, meanwhile, isn't too far off and is still freaking out by what he did to Donnie. Then he hears Donnie yelling for help and runs back to him, only to find the Foot have already captured him and are putting him in a van. Casey tries to go to him but Tiger Claw easily pushes him down, thanking him for making his hunt easy. Then they drive off with Donnie in tow while Casey watches in horror.


I assume this would cause a bit of rift between Casey and the Turtles, especially Raph. Of course, April would be furious and she finally tells Casey that she's part Kraang, so she's been living a strange life since she was born. Still not sure whether Casey knows at this point, but I assume he doesn't know the details.

Ok, I gotta go to work, but if you've seen my other posts, you know about my "dimension hopping" arc. I know Victory knows about it. :)

[BabyTurtles]

This crossed my mind last night: I could almost see a reenactment of the "Leo vs. Raph" fight from the 2007 movie happening between Donnie and Casey. Not scene for scene, but...well, let me explain.

As you all may or may not know, I'm still standing my ground on Shredder hunting down Donnie and sending Tiger Claw to do this. Donnie's still working on retromutagen, but he's finding it hard to concentrate since he keeps thinking back to the "Woodpile" conversation he and April had back in North Hampton. He knows that in order for him to fully let go of April, he doesn't want to leave things unresolved, so he goes out to talk to April.

Meanwhile, April's getting a bit stressed with wondering where her father is, how they're going to stop the Kraang, and just all the major problems that have been going on since they returned to New York. Casey approaches her and tells her that her problem is she has too much "mutated freaky stuff" in her life and needs more normal stuff. He said himself he's getting a bit tired of all the monsters and aliens and needs a bit of "Human closure" as well. He basically tells April that she needs him and he needs her for that very reason: they can supply a normal life for each other.

April thinks about this and says she wants nothing more than normalcy and Casey takes this as a green light. Before April can explain further, he kisses her right on the mouth, stunning her. (This has happened to me on a few occasions where I guy kisses me in mid-sentence and I was too shocked to stop him, but my friends were always like "Really, Bits? You didn't see that coming?") Anyway, of course Donnie hears only the last part of that conversation and when he sees April and Casey kissing, he immediately gets heartbroken. So much in fact that he runs off, just trying to wrap his mind around April wanting mutants out of her life and wanting to be with Casey.

When Casey finally stops kissing April and asks how she feels, she gets her "emotional headache" and knows that someone was watching (she knows it was Donnie, but doesn't tell Casey). Casey however, sees the last glimpse of Donnie running off and tells April he has to go take care of something.

Donnie seeks refuge in an old scrapyard, just trying to calm himself down. He's mad, upset, confused, and just seriously going through a huge roller coaster of emotions. Casey approaches him and tells him how he's gotta deal with April "choosing him over a mutant." Donnie, still in a bad frame of mind, tells Casey that even though April wouldn't want to be with a mutant, he doesn't see him and April lasting much longer, then starts telling Casey how he's not good enough for April and eventually she'll see that and call it off. They get into a heated argument and, Casey being Casey, lets the anger get to him and sucker punches Donnie right in the face. Donnie doesn't really WANT to fight Casey like this, but Casey isn't leaving him much choice and soon the two are going at it.

Meanwhile, Tiger Claw is watching from a distance with Rahzar and his team of Foot Bots. He decides to wait and see how this plays out before intervening.

At first, Donnie has the upper hand and is able to overpower Casey, but this just makes Casey even more determined to win. He starts to play dirty by using his shock gloves and the spikes on his mitts, he even manages to break Donnie's staff. He never gives Donnie a chance to collect himself and just wails on him again and again and again until he finally slams him into the side of a junky car and presses his hockey stick to Donnie's throat. Donnie is trying to breathe, but Casey tells him to stay away from April and how he won her and that she belongs to him...then he looks over and see his reflection in an old mirror or something. This shocks him back to reality and he lets go of Donnie. He's so shaken by what he did and ALMOST did and he (like Raph in 2007) runs off scared.

Donnie, beaten and bruised, watches him go off with a forlorn expression on his face, knowing that Casey didn't really want to hurt him that badly and that his temper got the best of him. Suddenly, he sees a hunting dart in his arm (again, like the 2007 movie) and sees Tiger Claw standing over him. Tiger Claw tells him how the Shredder wanted him alive and is glad he didn't have to spend the whole night hunting him.

Casey, meanwhile, isn't too far off and is still freaking out by what he did to Donnie. Then he hears Donnie yelling for help and runs back to him, only to find the Foot have already captured him and are putting him in a van. Casey tries to go to him but Tiger Claw easily pushes him down, thanking him for making his hunt easy. Then they drive off with Donnie in tow while Casey watches in horror.


I assume this would cause a bit of rift between Casey and the Turtles, especially Raph. Of course, April would be furious and she finally tells Casey that she's part Kraang, so she's been living a strange life since she was born. Still not sure whether Casey knows at this point, but I assume he doesn't know the details.

Ok, I gotta go to work, but if you've seen my other posts, you know about my "dimension hopping" arc. I know Victory knows about it. :)

I seriously hope we don't have to see Casey and Donnie fight....they have already been bickering like a bunch of babies....and we already have seen April extremely annoyed by it.

I kinda just want the boys to leave April alone....and April to leave the boys alone.

I don't want any boy to be the "bad guy" cause they already look ridiculous enough now.

[aliena]

Love squared... sounds like a romcom with Hugh Grant.... *shudders*


It does seem a common theme that a lot of people on the board are really annoyed at Donnie's approach to the relationship. I think more than one of us see it and remember either being at the receiving end of a someone like that or worse being that person and it hits a definite nerve to see it portrayed in a way that feels 'shoehorned' - so to say that any indication they might actually get together tends to be rather unrealistic and even a bit forced.

I'm intrigued though whether people think its still salvageable at this point. I mean, imagine you were one of the writers of the show, and the studio execs turn around to you and say that they do want Donnie and April to have gotten together by the end of the show (just hypothetically speaking) - how would you go about it?

For myself, I think its gotten to the point where - to be done satisfyingly - Donnie needs to go through a proper heartbreak. April needs to outright tell him no and he needs to deal with it and try to move on. April could then change her mind much later - perhaps going through a situation that causes her to realise how much she has come to like him - but then its at least on her terms, and her making up her own mind without Donnie 'pressuring'.

Cheesy though it may be, I have seen it happen in real life, and I cant think of many other situations that would work without being cheesier. How about the rest of you? What do you guys think?

This is what I'd love to see happen. We seem to think alike on many topics Tarris. I thought that if he backed off and then April had some time to discover that she actually really liked him, for him, then it might be salvageable.

[aliena]

I can't see Donnie and April really being romantic together, but for some reason I could always see Leo and Karai as romantic. Even when she was discovered to be his "sister", it was still there for me. I don't know how they will resolve their little foray into romance. This one could be totally melded from romance to brotherly concern without a hitch, but it would still be there for me.

[Luckyday]

I can't see Donnie and April really being romantic together, but for some reason I could always see Leo and Karai as romantic. Even when she was discovered to be his "sister", it was still there for me. I don't know how they will resolve their little foray into romance. This one could be totally melded from romance to brotherly concern without a hitch, but it would still be there for me.

I'll say ditto to that. I'll put what I said earlier to give out my reason.

This why Karai and Leo relationship would so easy to write since they have all the requirements on the table. Karai is a rebel to which Leo likes because sometimes his position would often force him to follow the rules, or he might have a white knight complex. Leo's determination to do the right thing is something Karai sarcastically refer as "cute" but secretly admires as a motivation in life. They both want to be best at what they do and their common ground is that they were both raise by ninja masters.

Since writing the full on realties of an interspecies romance is something that the writing staff don't want to touch with a ten foot pole, but the conflict of two people who might love each other but have to deal with a new physical change would something that I think the writers can do.

However if done poorely, it's going to be bad as Stephenie Meyer's Twilight and that is the last thing we want to see.

If done right by having Karai trying control her predator mode. Being in the dark at first of how long a snake can sustain and be stable around others before she becomes hungry and go into a feeding frenzy. So it's basically like a werewolf trying schedule his life around the moon cycles but except her full moon is the state of rapaciousness. Leo should also be realistically afraid of her and with a strong douse of common sense and self preservation. I am sure he loves her and will try to support her and will do as much as he can to make their relationship work, but he should never forget that she is part snake and every snake on this Earth has a attitude of eat first, ask questions later.

The metaphor of King cobra mother that took the time to build a nest, guard her eggs but leaves them when they hatch because she knows that she will eat her own babies if she stay describe Karai's new relationship with her biological father and family in a compete nutshell. http://i.imgur.com/lAru4pJ.png

I might be the only person that really wanted Karai join the Hamato clan. Most of you guys say that she wouldn't really fit in within the group but that entire point of her second character arc. Seeing her adjusting and at the same time, adjusting to her snake instincts which could hurt and damage the relationship would be a good damn interesting conflict for her character.

At the very least, I just want to see her to spend quality and becoming close to Splinter from time to time. Can't she visit them for Christmas, Thanksgiving or even Mutation days? Hell maybe she can have trouble relating to Splinter because she was raised so differently by Shredder and feels alienated.

There is so much you can do with her.

[IndigoErth]

I might be the only person that really wanted Karai join the Hamato clan. Most of you guys say that she wouldn't really fit in within the group but that entire point of her second character arc. Seeing her adjusting and at the same time, adjusting to her snake instincts which could hurt and damage the relationship would be a good damn interesting conflict for her character.

At the very least, I just want to see her to spend quality and becoming close to Splinter from time to time. Can't she visit them for Christmas, Thanksgiving or even Mutation days? Hell maybe she can have trouble relating to Splinter because she was raised so differently by Shredder and feels alienated.

There is so much you can do with her.
Nah, I was really looking forward to her joining her real family, even if she didn't permanently move in, but at least spending time and connecting with her real father, adopted brothers, and I was hoping maybe she and April might end up friends.

And then they went and mutated her... Not that it isn't an interesting twist, but I hope they go deeper into that concept with her learning to control the shape shifting and making it an asset, or something meaningful about it. Or be lazy and simply demutate her.

[pennydreadful]

I would've liked to have seen Karai join the Hamato clan as well. Think about it - four teenage guys, one teenage girl, all having to share a bathroom? The arguments would be epic and legendary. :tlol:

And it would've given April a friend, which could've added some much-needed dimension to April's character.

[Luckyday]

I would've liked to have seen Karai join the Hamato clan as well. Think about it - four teenage guys, one teenage girl, all having to share a bathroom? The arguments would be epic and legendary. :tlol:

And it would've given April a friend, which could've added some much-needed dimension to April's character.

I think that they can still do it. I am hoping this mutation is just something to add on top to her trying to adjust to her family but if this just an ass pull excuse to not be with Splinter then I'm going to be piss because it would on the same level of them prolonging this cringe worthy love triangle ******** train because they had no ****ing clue on where to go next. Yes, I would be extremely piss indeed . :x

[Metalwolf]

I'm hoping they demutate Karai at least, I don't really care for the snake thing and they can still do a lot of stuff with her. Such as having her father slowly have to 'retrain' her out of her violent tendencies, and try to instill in her the virtues of mercy and kindness. The reason for that I think is because she could easily fall back on what Shredder has taught her under duress, and essentially act like a mini-Shredder.

As for the love triangle, it's going to end slowly and painfully. I don't see the writers wrapping it up until almost late in season 4 (if that's the last season.)

[DarkLightDragon]

I've come to the conclusion that she was mutated solely for it being the only way she'd get a toy. Because mutants still sell, yunno.

Also just for the sake of there being more drama and giving Shredder an extra reason to hate Splinter even though he's more at fault but obviously continues to scapegoat instead of admitting any wrondoing he's committed.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I want Karai to join the Hamato family, and I hope she does at some point.

As for the triangle, I think it should end and April should just choose somebody and get it over with. I don't want Donnie and Casey to fight over her anymore. If anything, I wouldn't care if they killed April off because I'm really starting to dislike her with not only the triangle but the whole Mary Sue power thing.

[Shark_Blade]

I think it'll end with something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/qhWCq85.gif

:tlove:

[IndigoErth]

Think about it - four teenage guys, one teenage girl, all having to share a bathroom? The arguments would be epic and legendary. :tlol
:lol: All the makeup and hair products they'd have to put up with taking up space now. And more mammal hair to clog the drains. lol Well, before she was a snake.

[BubblyShell22]

I think it'll end with something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/qhWCq85.gif

:tlove:

That would be lame because that's not a real kiss. That's just a friendly kiss on the cheek. What she did in "A Foot Too Big" counts as a real kiss because it looked like she kissed him on the lips there. So if she choose Donnie, and they decide to show it via kissing, it'll probably be a lip kiss.

[Shark_Blade]

Well yeah that could be nice too. :trazz:

[Coola Yagami]

Eh just make April choose Donnie and be done with it. Poor guy gets a bad rap due to previous incarnations but this is supposed to be a whole new show. Most people complain cause they don't want 'girly icky love stuff' in their 'tough guy action cartoon'. No one cares if Casey has April cause he's not a main character and they can have entire episodes without those 2. It's more annoying for the fanbase since Don is one of the main characters so it's in our faces a lot more often.

That and April is kind of a tool. Not all her fault. At that age teens don't fully understand how their actions hurt other peoples feelings.

[aliena]

Eh just make April choose Donnie and be done with it. Poor guy gets a bad rap due to previous incarnations but this is supposed to be a whole new show. Most people complain cause they don't want 'girly icky love stuff' in their 'tough guy action cartoon'. No one cares if Casey has April cause he's not a main character and they can have entire episodes without those 2. It's more annoying for the fanbase since Don is one of the main characters so it's in our faces a lot more often.

That and April is kind of a tool. Not all her fault. At that age teens don't fully understand how their actions hurt other peoples feelings.

You totally nailed it Coola. That sounds like something Splinter would say. That is totally how I feel all summed up in just a paragraph. I'm curious what your take on Leo & Karai is. ;)

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

Don and Casey have a massive, 5 episode long fight on a planet that's set to blow up in 5 minutes. April intervenes and says her dad has forbidden her to date Don based on concerns about salmonella.

Don becomes depressed and listens to a lot of Linkin Park for one full season. He then builds a SETI style communications array to join the alien equivalent of Tinder, looking for reptile love amongst the stars.

A 50 page thread explodes on whether or not the cartoon has become racist.

What's in this coffee?

Seriously though, Casey ends up with April. It's like...the law or something.

Don learns the hard human lesson of teen heartbreak, and moves on. Bad music phase optional.

[mexichrist83]

The only way I, personally, would like to see (and could only see) this triangle ending is like this:

Donatello will have to let April go to Casey or just let her go in general (I'd prefer to not see April end up with anyone in the end). I think this will work with the whole turtle/human issue but not only that, it will also serve Donatello as a character much better. We've seen how petty and immature this crush on April can make Donatello and I have to admit that as much as I love this version of Donatello that aspect of the love triangle and what it does to him really bums me out. Donatello maturing and making himself emotionally strong enough to the point where he realizes that he has to let April go and finally does it will redeem not only his character but also the triangle. While this does mean that we'd have to suffer through more of the triangle crap until it's finally resolved I think this is the best way to go. I hope this isn't dragged out until the end but my fear is that it probably well. I think I (and a lot of other people) would like to see the resolution to this triangle sooner rather than later.

[ticktack]

which type of love can have a dead end feel to itself execpt the obvious-to-us triangular one in my opinion:

•one-sided,
•both are shy and stay as an admirer to each other, no girlfriend-boyfriend relationship
•one is young, in love to a grown-up another

the triangle can touch the first two listed for a moment in someone(s) viwes, I think and also in my experience.

also I've read some information about love triangles:
-either one came out as a dreamy-romantic or not realistic person and is advised to see who is better match all in all;
-in another way one person came out as a liar and hides another lover and dates two, one being secret from another.
And is also included the hartbreaking, guilt, harm scene.

[senpai]

Love triangles can enhance drama in any type of story. However, I'm really irked by Donatello and Casey fighting over April. Any person in April's shoes would be incredibly annoyed. The whole thing to me is exhausting. I wish that the rivalry would stop for a while. Casey and April always end up together in the other versions of TMNT, so I find it hard to believe NICK's TMNT would be any different. That, and I don't want April to be with Donnie. xD I'll probably get heat for saying this but I think he's kind of annoying. I like him a lot in some episodes, but for the most part, he's my least favorite turtle in this version. They made him too wimpy... :\

[mexichrist83]

Love triangles can enhance drama in any type of story. However, I'm really irked by Donatello and Casey fighting over April. Any person in April's shoes would be incredibly annoyed. The whole thing to me is exhausting. I wish that the rivalry would stop for a while. Casey and April always end up together in the other versions of TMNT, so I find it hard to believe NICK's TMNT would be any different. That, and I don't want April to be with Donnie. xD I'll probably get heat for saying this but I think he's kind of annoying. I like him a lot in some episodes, but for the most part, he's my least favorite turtle in this version. They made him too wimpy... :\

Watching Casey and Donnie fight over April is very upsetting. It completely undermines both of their characters and makes April more of an object which is the worst thing you can do to these three. It also doesn't help that when they do fight over her she just kind of sits there (when present) and doesn't react to the fighting. April also being very ambivalent about who she really chooses doesn't help the matter either but, regardless, the real issue is how Donnie and Casey behave when it comes to April.

[Bam]

People talk about Donnie being creepy and stuff, but April knows how he feels and just keeps kissing on him. She needs to be honest with him and get it over with. Not saying he isn't being stalkerish and annoying, but she is sending him mixed signals. She had the perfect opportunity to set him straight at the end of the Bigfoot episode and she ruined it. I'm usually shipper trash and I shipped it at first, but I'm sooooo tired of it. I hope she doesn't pick either of them.

[senpai]

It completely undermines both of their characters and makes April more of an object which is the worst thing you can do to these three.

Mmm! Brilliant observation! I never thought of it that way before. I think there's some truth in your idea, hollowbones.

It also doesn't help that when they do fight over her she just kind of sits there (when present) and doesn't react to the fighting. April also being very ambivalent about who she really chooses doesn't help the matter either but, regardless, the real issue is how Donnie and Casey behave when it comes to April.

:ohwell: Yeahhhh. She usually only steps in to break up a quarrel so it doesn't turn into a physical fight. And I agree 100%. She's definitely being vague about who she truly wants to be with, and that's only fueling more hostility between bros. When I think of Casey and Don in the shed working on cars, I think of the old 90s live-action movie and just think, ahhh, it'd be nice if it could be like that now.

[victory_angel]

And yet she kisses Donnie mostly with appreciative or friendly kisses. And once has kissed Donnie on the lips as a way of saying "Don't give up on me just yet." But she hasn't kissed Casey...yet.

She is still ambivalent as to who she wants, but we are seeing hints as to where she is leaning.

[senpai]

I mean, she even macks on Raph. xP

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/8/87/Racedemonwiththe.png/revision/latest?cb=20141123123607

[victory_angel]

I mean, she even macks on Raph. xP

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/8/87/Racedemonwiththe.png/revision/latest?cb=20141123123607

I don't see that as love though...I see that more as commiserating.

[senpai]

I don't see that as love though...I see that more as commiserating.

I know. :P I'm just messin.

[Refractive Reflections]

So I think the question here is; why do they still insist on playing up this element that isn't going anywhere?

To reinforce that April is the true playa in this franchise, unlike how the fandom may want to think Raph or Mikey is. :P

[victory_angel]

The Donnie/April/Casey triangle sort of parallels the Hamato Yoshi/ Tang Shen/ Casey triangle.

Much like Tang Shen April is being viewed as a prize to be won. But unlike Tang Shen she has more say about the behavior of her prospective suitors.

Casey isn't the smartest bulb in the bunch but he isn't stupid. He has obviously been around the Turtles long enough to know Donnie has feelings for her. (And yes I'm sure Raph has informed him of such during the times they have palled around.)

And he does feel threatened by the history that Donnie has with April, much like Donnie feels his chances toward April were threatened by the fact Casey is human.

However during the episode In Dreams, Casey appears to grasp that April has emotionally chosen Donnie. But his comment of "Dream on Donnie, Dream on" indicates that he isn't going to let Donnie know that because 1. April hasn't officially stated who she has chosen Donnie so she's still open game. And 2. he doesn't want to give up his chances on April without a fight.

[mexichrist83]

The Donnie/April/Casey triangle sort of parallels the Hamato Yoshi/ Tang Shen/ Casey triangle.

Much like Tang Shen April is being viewed as a prize to be won. But unlike Tang Shen she has more say about the behavior of her prospective suitors.

I don't necessarily think this is very true. In regard to the situation between Tang Shen, Oroku Saki and Hamato Yoshi, while we don't see much of that story what we do know (or from what we can take from this story) is that while both Yoshi and Saki were both possibly vying for the affections of Tang Shen one of two things is true. Tang Shen ultimately chose Yoshi and they began their relationship or they already had a relationship together. In either of these possibilities Saki could not accept that and that is what led everyone to where they are now including the worst part which is killing Tang Shen. The important thing with this part of the story is that Tang Shen had a choice and made her choice. Never do we see Yoshi fight Saki over Tang Shen. In my eyes this makes Yoshi that much more respectable as a person and that's why Shredder is that much worse as a person. People are objects to him. Tang Shen was supposed to be his and that led him to kill her and steal Miwa/Karai. Also, when it comes to Miwa/Karai even in the last episode, Serpent Hunt, when it came to getting Karai back he knows Karai is not his real daughter and he even yells to Leo "She's mine".

[victory_angel]

And we have Donnie and Casey vying for April. April has shown signs that she is sort of leaning towards Donnie as her love interest, but she hadn't officially made up her mind about it as of yet.

1. Because she has more on her mind aside from choosing a boy friend at the moment. (With the war against the Kraang, rescuing her father and making sure his humanity is restored with everyone else in the city...ECT.)

2. She know she has to make a decision and the decision would hurt one of the two boys. She already knows what each one could offer her.

Donnie has been studying her Psychic powers and by extent has been helping her understand them and control them. Donnie knows April is part Kraang, but aside from letting her know that fact all the Turtles have let her digest that info at her own pace

Casey doesn't know April is part Kraang. He knows she's special but as far as he knows she's 100% human and not a half human/half kraang hybrid. And i have the feeling when he does learn April is part Kraang that wouldn't exactly be welcome news on his part.

3. I don't think they are going to have both straight up be akin to Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki. Because neither of them are as crazed has Oraku is. However I can see it more as a juxtaposition to the HY/TS/OS situation.

I.E. April making her choice and the rejected suitor accepts that choice and remains with them as a friend.

Vrs. Not accepting her choice and waging an endless vendetta against those they once knew as friends.

If Casey followed Oroku's path, he won't exactly be welcome company to anyone.

Donnie on the other hand would have more to lose in that regard. Because in taking that path he would not only lose April, he would lose any trust or respect he had from his brothers and father. And even if he did see the error of his ways and come back to the side of good. He'd never truly regain back that familial trust from his friends and family.

[senpai]

To reinforce that April is the true playa in this franchise, unlike how the fandom may want to think Raph or Mikey is. :P

What it is, yo. xD

[NoName999]

The Donnie/April/Casey triangle sort of parallels the Hamato Yoshi/ Tang Shen/ Casey triangle.


Sorry if I come off as rude but can we honestly make that parallel anymore?

[IndigoErth]

At this point, as long as the girl just finally makes a choice in the near future that's all that matters... Pick one or the other, or neither! Or both! I don't care, have a weird male harem! You want the mutant Turtle, fine, go for it! After all, he's technically the more normal one in some way, seeing as how he's 100% Earthling like most people on the planet... although maybe he shouldn't want to be with a half Kraang. :trazz: