Michael Keaton reveals why he turned down returning in Batman Forever, "It sucked"

[CyberCubed]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/03/michael-keaton-on-turning-down-batman-forever-it-sucked

Oscar-nominated actor Michael Keaton had a simple reason for saying no to Batman Forever.

"It sucked," he told The Hollywood Reporter after seeing the script. After portraying the Caped Crusader in Batman and Batman Returns, both directed by Tim Burton, he voted against returning for Batman Forever, helmed by Joel Schumacher.

"I knew it was in trouble," Keaton said, "when [Schumacher] said, 'Why does everything have to be so dark?'"

I think he made the right decision.

[ToTheNines]

"Forever" was a million times better than "Returns".

[The Deadman]

There was nothing wrong with Batman Forever IMO.

[Cure]

"Forever" was a million times better than "Returns".

I agree. Returns is the better movie, I guess, but Forever is more entertaining.

[CyberCubed]

There was nothing wrong with Batman Forever IMO.

This is not Two-face:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EHMBQLttYZE/hqdefault.jpg

This was them trying to do a low-rent version of Jack Nicholson's Joker. I don't think the people making this movie had any idea who "Two-face" even was.

[Autbot_Benz]

I prefer the batman burton movies to the sumacher ones. Tommy Lee Jones was a horrible Two-Face and Jim Carrey was just Jim Carrey dressed as the riddler. Also Kilmer's batman was a wuss

[The Deadman]

This is not Two-face:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EHMBQLttYZE/hqdefault.jpg

This was them trying to do a low-rent version of Jack Nicholson's Joker. I don't think the people making this movie had any idea who "Two-face" even was.

You do realize they were going for campy in the last 2 Batman flicks right?

[Andrew NDB]

"Forever" was a million times better than "Returns".

Hell no. It's not even close.

[TigerClaw]

The problem with Batman Forever is how they cast Two-Face, Harvey Dent was played by Billy Dee Williams in the 1st Batman movie, He should've been Two-Face.
http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Harvey_Dent_(Billy_Dee_Williams)

https://images.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,q_auto,w_710/lpvga4kdowjqxfwymrzg/billy-dee-williams-as-harvey-dent-in-1989-s-batman.jpg

[Andrew NDB]

The problem with Batman Forever is

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/24/article-2105694-005A3CB700000258-995_468x349.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

And this is why I'm a Christopher Nolan fan.

No Penguin sewer monster, or cat mouth-to-mouth, or Bat nipples, or ice puns.

[PApagreg]

And this is why I'm a Christopher Nolan fan.

No Penguin sewer monster, or cat mouth-to-mouth, or Bat nipples, or ice puns.

What about Bat credit card

[MikeandRaph87]

"Forever" was a million times better than "Returns".

This old news. Keaton did not return because Burton was replaced due to the demand of a lighter film. Of all the Batman films the only one I out right dislike is Batman Returns. Why? It was trying to hard to be dark it fell on its face and was surreal and forced. Of all the Batman films my favorite one is Batman Forever. I admit it has its flaws such as the neon color, Riddler's stupid costume and red haired wig, and not digging deep enough in the psychology with Two Face or Bruce stating "I killed them". Dick Grayson and Riddler being present and a somehat serious/somewhat fun tone made it a film I could really enjoy. There is something wrong with all of the Batman films,but the one that caters to my interest the most is Batman Forever and Batman Returns the least.

Also, in regards to Two Face, Aaron Eckhart may have been a solid Harvey Dent,but you have to admit Two Face got ten minutes and didn't feel much like Two Face. Also, both films let out Glida Dent who is a part of Two Face's story.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

And this is why I'm a Christopher Nolan fan.

No Penguin sewer monster, or cat mouth-to-mouth, or Bat nipples, or ice puns.

I'm not a huge fan of the Nolan films like most people are. I thought Bane was terrible. I thought Two-Face was also terribly used. I hated the Tumbler as opposed to an actual Batmobile. I also wasn't gaga over Ledger as the Joker. Mark Hamill still perfectly owns the character to me. The one thing I do like about the Nolan films is I feel that Bale made the best "Batman". However, I think Burton has the major edge on his version of Gotham. I know that's right in his wheelhouse though. I think Nolan's Gotham looks much too "industrialized" whereas Burton's actually looked "gothic". Danny Elfman is also incomparable from a musical standpoint but I still hate that Prince sequence in the first Burton one. Totally out of place to me and I felt that Jack's Joker was more of a "Joke" than "Joker". Much more Romero than Hamill. I love Hamill. Just my two cents.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This old news. Keaton did not return because Burton was replaced due to the demand of a lighter film. Of all the Batman films the only one I out right dislike is Batman Returns. Why? It was trying to hard to be dark it fell on its face and was surreal and forced. Of all the Batman films my favorite one is Batman Forever. I admit it has its flaws such as the neon color, Riddler's stupid costume and red haired wig, and not digging deep enough in the psychology with Two Face or Bruce stating "I killed them". Dick Grayson and Riddler being present and a somehat serious/somewhat fun tone made it a film I could really enjoy. There is something wrong with all of the Batman films,but the one that caters to my interest the most is Batman Forever and Batman Returns the least.

We need a serious reboot of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

Dammit, we NEED a decent Robin, Riddler, Poison Ivy, Mister Freeze, and Batgirl in the cinematic Bat universe!

[Autbot_Benz]

We need a serious reboot of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

Dammit, we NEED a decent Robin, Riddler, Poison Ivy, Mister Freeze, and Batgirl in the cinematic Bat universe!

Wait for Lego Batman to come out :lol:

[MikeandRaph87]

We need a serious reboot of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

Dammit, we NEED a decent Robin, Riddler, Poison Ivy, Mister Freeze, and Batgirl in the cinematic Bat universe!

Will Dick Grayson as Robin and Barbara Gordon as Batgirl see a return to cinema? I want it deadly,but I have realistic doubts it will happen. The closest we might ever get is Lego Batman 2.:( Mr. Freeze does get justice in film in the form of Subzero. I love that film so much both Victor Fries and Dick Grayson get prominent roles and are presented wonderfully. Barbara however is in a two second throwaway scene as Batgirl fighting a mugger. Poison Ivy might see a second shot in film in a Gotham Sirens film. Riddler I do believe will be seen in this new movie verse as DC Comics has pushed for him in both The Dark Knight Rises and a cameo in Dawn of Justice. Just how big a role? Will he be the Charlie of Charlie's Angels type character in a Gotham Sirens film? Its possible.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Will Dick Grayson as Robin and Barbara Gordon as Batgirl see a return to cinema? I want it deadly,but I have realistic doubts it will happen. The closest we might ever get is Lego Batman 2.:( Mr. Freeze does get justice in film in the form of Subzero. I love that film so much both Victor Fries and Dick Grayson get prominent roles and are presented wonderfully. Barbara however is in a two second throwaway scene as Batgirl fighting a mugger. Poison Ivy might see a second shot in film in a Gotham Sirens film. Riddler I do believe will be seen in this new movie verse as DC Comics has pushed for him in both The Dark Knight Rises and a cameo in Dawn of Justice. Just how big a role? Will he be the Charlie of Charlie's Angels type character in a Gotham Sirens film? Its possible.

Danny Devito's hands alone are enough reason for me to not like Returns. I think it was Rotten Tomatoes the other day that done a story on why Returns deserves the cult devotion it still maintains. I don't think it deserves all the love it gets but who am I to judge? I still love the first TMNT movie and my buddy told me just today that he recently rewatched it and found it totally cringeworthy and that he didn't think it held up at all. I thought it struck a great tone and I still do.

[sdp]

I like/dislike all 4 90s Batman live action films for different reasons they all have tons of things i don't agree is Batman and all 4 are entertaining and have neat stuff in their own right.

[Autbot_Benz]

Speaking of Batman Forever I just read Sam Raimi lobbied to direct the movie once Tim Burton left but they went with Shumacher instead. I would have loved to seen a Sam Raimi batman movie.

[saintsaucey]

I'm not a huge fan of the Nolan films like most people are. I thought Bane was terrible. I thought Two-Face was also terribly used. I hated the Tumbler as opposed to an actual Batmobile. I also wasn't gaga over Ledger as the Joker. Mark Hamill still perfectly owns the character to me. The one thing I do like about the Nolan films is I feel that Bale made the best "Batman". However, I think Burton has the major edge on his version of Gotham. I know that's right in his wheelhouse though. I think Nolan's Gotham looks much too "industrialized" whereas Burton's actually looked "gothic". Danny Elfman is also incomparable from a musical standpoint but I still hate that Prince sequence in the first Burton one. Totally out of place to me and I felt that Jack's Joker was more of a "Joke" than "Joker". Much more Romero than Hamill. I love Hamill. Just my two cents.

Bale was a ****** Batman. Worst part of the Nolan franchise

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Bale was a ****** Batman. Worst part of the Nolan franchise

Actually I meant to say he made the best "Bruce Wayne". My bad about that. I agree that the whole ridiculous voice thing was terrible.

[MikeandRaph87]

Speaking of Batman Forever I just read Sam Raimi lobbied to direct the movie once Tim Burton left but they went with Shumacher instead. I would have loved to seen a Sam Raimi batman movie.

I think it would have gave us a little of everything the way his Spider-Man films did. Not too dark, not too light, just right. There would not be a backlash on the film as it is today. I wonder how Schumaker got it over others. The Raimi statement is making me go fanboy in "what ifs". No neon, no Bat nipples, maybe no Batman Begins.

[Wildcat]

I've always liked Forever (and B&R to an extent) better than the Burton movies.

The Burton movies just didn't add up to me. Especially Returns. I still kinda don't get it. Penguin wants to take over the city out of spite? Catwoman is just there to cause mischief? I don't know...there's just no storyline really.

I think the characters were portrayed really good though.

[Coola Yagami]

I've always liked Forever (and B&R to an extent) better than the Burton movies.

The Burton movies just didn't add up to me. Especially Returns. I still kinda don't get it. Penguin wants to take over the city out of spite? Catwoman is just there to cause mischief? I don't know...there's just no storyline really.

I think the characters were portrayed really good though.

Catwoman was out to kill Max Shrek. She did rob some of his stores and whatnot.

Penguin wanted to use Shrek to get all names of the firstborns to kill them all.

The thing is Max suddenly making Penguin run for mayor derailed his plans for a bit. Catwoman's sudden decision to play super villain team up also derailed her plans.

[CyberCubed]

Penguin becoming Mayor of a City when he came from the sewers might seem odd, but we live in a reality where Donald Trump became president. So you can't question the logic of ordinary voters even in a comic book movie. (Yes, even as a kid I thought that made no sense)

[Wildcat]

Catwoman was out to kill Max Shrek. She did rob some of his stores and whatnot.

Penguin wanted to use Shrek to get all names of the firstborns to kill them all.

The thing is Max suddenly making Penguin run for mayor derailed his plans for a bit. Catwoman's sudden decision to play super villain team up also derailed her plans.I actually went to go read the Wikipedia description. Penguin wanting to kill all first borns does not make sense to me. It's been awhile since I've seen the movie but it's just an oddly specific plan for no reason. Unless I'm forgetting something or it's not clear enough.

Besides the story there's a few things between both Burton movies I didn't like or just thought were dumb. The Batwing being shot down, Batmobile being easily hacked, bulletproof bat suit gets ripped by Catwoman.

[saintsaucey]

I actually went to go read the Wikipedia description. Penguin wanting to kill all first borns does not make sense to me. It's been awhile since I've seen the movie but it's just an oddly specific plan for no reason. Unless I'm forgetting something or it's not clear enough.

Besides the story there's a few things between both Burton movies I didn't like or just thought were dumb. The Batwing being shot down, Batmobile being easily hacked, bulletproof bat suit gets ripped by Catwoman.
Oswald was the first born son of a pair of rich socialites who cast him aside because of his freakish behavior. Since they were did he struck back at all of the kids who were accepted. The first born kids of all the kids who were accepted.

[Voltron]

I prefer the batman burton movies to the sumacher ones. Tommy Lee Jones was a horrible Two-Face and Jim Carrey was just Jim Carrey dressed as the riddler. Also Kilmer's batman was a wuss

From what I heard, Carrey was channeling Frank Gorshin's Riddler from the old 60's show. It was over-the-top and campy, which clashed with the darker tones of the film.

In the end, Forever didn't know what kind of movie it was supposed to be. The villains were camp. The heroes were brooding and dramatic. When they cross, they have a hard time deciding which they should be. Was Two-Face a ruthless killer? Or was he some goofball who steals entire bank vaults? They really needed to pick one and just go with it.

[Coola Yagami]

The problem was Two Face was Joker light, while we know Tommy Lee Jones could have done a much better job of he had better direction... and Jim Carrey was Jim Carrey.

[Shark_Blade]

Batman Returns is the best Batman film tbh. Followed by The Dark Knight.

[saintsaucey]

Batman Returns is the best Batman film tbh. Followed by The Dark Knight.

http://i.imgur.com/f5yiWCl.gif

[Vegita-San]

batman returns was down right disgusting. penguin eating fish...WHY?


despite the stupid neon, i liked forever far better.

I even liked bits and pieces of batman and robin.

[Autbot_Benz]

batman returns was down right disgusting. penguin eating fish...WHY?


despite the stupid neon, i liked forever far better.

I even liked bits and pieces of batman and robin.

Penguins eat Fish and Danny Devito loves Sushi so he had no problem doing those scenes. Since Burton's version of Penguin was a Sewer bird monster it made sense.

[ToTheNines]

I wish Sharkie would stop trolling.


Sewer bird monster made sense.

Lol, ok.

[MikeandRaph87]

Penguin eating fish. Okay. Catwoman eating birds such as this however...
http://comicsalliance.com/files/2011/06/returnse.jpg

There is also a mention just before that of her having sex with an ally cat.:teek: Over the top gross?!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There is also a mention just before that of her having sex with an ally cat.:teek: Over the top gross?!

Wait, what? I sure as hell don't remember that. Methinks you remember falsely.

[MikeandRaph87]

Wait, what? I sure as hell don't remember that. Methinks you remember falsely.

Its in the scene right after she redid her apartment following her transformation. She alludes to it then. As corny as Batman & Robin was Batman Returns was trying to hard in the other direction.

Edit: Another thing I could not figure out was why The Penguin had clown stooges instead of The Joker. I get that Joker was half Joe Chill,but come on!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Its in the scene right after she redid her apartment following her transformation. She alludes to it then. As corny as Batman & Robin was Batman Returns was trying to hard in the other direction.

Edit: Another thing I could not figure out was why The Penguin had clown stooges instead of The Joker. I get that Joker was half Joe Chill,but come on!

Huh. I suppose I could rewatch to find out, but that's not gonna happen. :tlol:

[MikeandRaph87]

Huh. I suppose I could rewatch to find out, but that's not gonna happen. :tlol:

Same here. Twice in a lifetime is enough. As craazy as Gotham is its better. At least Pfifer isn't the imposter Catwoman from that 2004 film. Also, Batman & Robin has Robin and Mr. Freeze and despite the cold cheese is watchable if you look at it through popcorn flick glasses. It was fixable too. Save Barbara and Bane for another film, rework the dialog and it would be much better. Returns is too hard to fix.

Excluding the WB! season Batman:TAS is better than any of the 8 Batman films.

[myconius]

all of the Batman films had their good points as well as their bad points.

they'll never really get it right.

well except for maybe this one?

https://media.giphy.com/media/QdAaeNLwNUlFK/giphy.gif

[Andrew NDB]

all of the Batman films had their good points as well as their bad points.

they'll never really get it right.

well except for maybe this one?

https://media.giphy.com/media/QdAaeNLwNUlFK/giphy.gif

If the Nolan films had broadened their sense of... myth, to allow for things like a giant Killer Croc, a super-sized Bane (but not too huge... I hate, like, the super-exaggerated Arkham Asylum version in the games), and that kind of stuff, I'd be much more behind them 100%. And make Batman not have trouble with dogs... makes it much harder to sell him as a credible threat to things like Darkseid and Superman later on. I think somewhere between the Nolan movies and the two Burton films is where I'd like to see things, with a non-murerous Batman.

[myconius]

If the Nolan films had broadened their sense of... myth, to allow for things like a giant Killer Croc, a super-sized Bane (but not too huge... I hate, like, the super-exaggerated Arkham Asylum version in the games), and that kind of stuff, I'd be much more behind them 100%. And make Batman not have trouble with dogs... makes it much harder to sell him as a credible threat to things like Darkseid and Superman later on. I think somewhere between the Nolan movies and the two Burton films is where I'd like to see things, with a non-murerous Batman.

yeah, i really wish Nolan wasn't so quick to write off the fantasy elements of Batman's world.
plus it seemed too much like Bruce Wayne only became Batman just to impress his childhood sweetheart. didn't like the idea that he felt he only had to be Batman until Gotham Didn't need him anymore.

The Burton Movies are still my favorites, though they are far from perfect.

[CyberCubed]

Nolan's Joker never fell into acid, Ra's Al Gul never lived for hundreds of years, Bane didn't even use venom...the hell.

Two-Face was the only one who had a similar story to his comic counterpart.

[Shark_Blade]

In terms of the best Batman, Ben Affleck from Batman v Superman takes top place imo. He's the right bulky size, his expressions - somber and broody were spot on. He's witty and snarky ("I've been busy". "I thought she's with you". "I've met women like you" etc). He's ruthless and violent when fighting, and isn't afraid to kill the enemies.

I guess Christian Bale as Batman was kinda okay until he spoke like he had sore throat cancer.

[Vegita-San]

all of the Batman films had their good points as well as their bad points.

they'll never really get it right.

well except for maybe this one?

https://media.giphy.com/media/QdAaeNLwNUlFK/giphy.gif

kids today. what, want him to stick a batarang in the sharks head and get him off that way?

I liked nolans movies for the most part (minus horrible man of steel and BvS). But I HATED his take on the joker. Ledgers horrible joker was nothing but a raving madman. boring. that's not the joker to me.

[myconius]

Nolan's Joker never fell into acid, Ra's Al Gul never lived for hundreds of years, Bane didn't even use venom...the hell.

Two-Face was the only one who had a similar story to his comic counterpart.

but that would go against Nolan's world built on ultra realism.

his Batman could only exist in a real world setting and do stuff like drive a tank over rooftops, or have his broken back fixed by a guy punching it. :lol:

he could have given us an immortal Ra's, or a chemically bleached Joker, or a Venom fueled Bane. . .
he just didn't want to.


But I HATED his take on the joker. Ledgers horrible joker was nothing but a raving madman. boring. that's not the joker to me.

"nothing but a raving madman" is a very accurate description for Ledger's Joker.
the sad thing is there are too many front runners that actually think that is what Joker is supposed to be like now.
i enjoyed the movie when i saw it in the theatre. i mean Heath's Joker DID blow up Rachel Dawes, so he scored some points with me there.
but no! he wasn't what i envision as the Joker.

[Shark_Blade]

Heath Ledger's Joker won an Oscar for the role - pretty much the best Joker there is.

Heck he's the only Batman character that ever won an Oscar. Respect! :tlove:

[The Deadman]

In terms of the best Batman, Ben Affleck from Batman v Superman takes top place imo. He's the right bulky size, his expressions - somber and broody were spot on. He's witty and snarky ("I've been busy". "I thought she's with you". "I've met women like you" etc). He's ruthless and violent when fighting, and isn't afraid to kill the enemies.

I guess Christian Bale as Batman was kinda okay until he spoke like he had sore throat cancer.

The best Batman in film will forever be Keaton.

[Vegita-San]

only because he died...and hollywood probably felt sorry for some reason.



there was nothing joker like about his performance. he was in name only

[myconius]

Heath Ledger's Joker won an Oscar for the role - pretty much the best Joker there is.

Heck he's the only Batman character that ever won an Oscar. Respect! :tlove:

i'm pretty sure the people giving out those awards aren't hardcore comic fans.

that doesn't have any bearing on the topic on hand.

[plastroncafe]

The best Batman in film will forever be Keaton.

^^^^^
This.
His Bruce Wayne want the best, I'd give that to Bale, but as Bats? Keaton all the way.

[myconius]

Keaton was my favorite live-actor Batman.

my absolute favorite will always be the cartoons

http://25.media.tumblr.com/666d180431632ed0c63676062723599e/tumblr_mq4fgyPMGu1s9816mo1_500.gif

[Candy Kappa]

From what I heard, Carrey was channeling Frank Gorshin's Riddler from the old 60's show.

Wow... really?
I guess as a over-the-top parody version of Gorshin's Riddler...

[Autbot_Benz]

kids today. what, want him to stick a batarang in the sharks head and get him off that way?

I liked nolans movies for the most part (minus horrible man of steel and BvS). But I HATED his take on the joker. Ledgers horrible joker was nothing but a raving madman. boring. that's not the joker to me.

Nolan had nothing to do with Batman V Superman that was all Zack Snyder.

[myconius]

Nolan had nothing to do with Batman V Superman that was all Zack Snyder.

no one said he did.

[CyberCubed]

only because he died...and hollywood probably felt sorry for some reason.

there was nothing joker like about his performance. he was in name only

LOL, who are you fooling here? Ledger's Joker was loved and critically acclaimed by everyone, not just comic book fans.

He may not be "classic Joker" but he played the role phenomenally. I still love his performance when I go back and rewatch the movie.

[NinjaPug]

no one said he did.

Vegita did

[CyberCubed]

Vegita-san generally has no idea who makes what when it comes to movies/shows. Look at his rants about the Nick cartoon in the TMNT section, he does the same thing there all the time.

[myconius]

I liked nolans movies for the most part (minus horrible man of steel and BvS).

Nolan was only a producer involved with Man of Steel, not BvS.

[MikeandRaph87]

Of the 12 villains in Batman's rogues gallery, 4 of which have recieved multiple interpretation,not to mention the '66 film, whichbwas your overall favorite petformance (s )?

[Andrew NDB]

Nolan had nothing to do with Batman V Superman that was all Zack Snyder.

no one said he did.

Nolan was only a producer involved with Man of Steel, not BvS.

Christopher Nolan was executive producer on BvS.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Vegita-san generally has no idea who makes what when it comes to movies/shows. Look at his rants about the Nick cartoon in the TMNT section, he does the same thing there all the time.

It's called an opinion, CC.

This old news. Keaton did not return because Burton was replaced due to the demand of a lighter film. Of all the Batman films the only one I out right dislike is Batman Returns. Why? It was trying to hard to be dark it fell on its face and was surreal and forced. Of all the Batman films my favorite one is Batman Forever. I admit it has its flaws such as the neon color, Riddler's stupid costume and red haired wig, and not digging deep enough in the psychology with Two Face or Bruce stating "I killed them". Dick Grayson and Riddler being present and a somehat serious/somewhat fun tone made it a film I could really enjoy. There is something wrong with all of the Batman films,but the one that caters to my interest the most is Batman Forever and Batman Returns the least.

Also, in regards to Two Face, Aaron Eckhart may have been a solid Harvey Dent,but you have to admit Two Face got ten minutes and didn't feel much like Two Face. Also, both films let out Glida Dent who is a part of Two Face's story.

I'd probably have to rewatch Returns again but it's weird to read that a lot of you guys prefer Forever over Returns, considering most people wanting Batman to be dark.

I honestly like Forever a lot but more than Returns, that's kind of a stretch. I do agree that Val Kilmer is a good Bruce Wayne.

While I do like Batfleck's overall design, I still don't see how anybody considers him the best Batman on film to date, when he has hardly done anything remotely what Batman does. BvS speaks for itself and you only get glimpses of it in Suicide Squad but not enough to sell me that this guy is Batman.

[Vegita-San]

Nolan was only a producer involved with Man of Steel, not BvS.

yeah.. my mistake.i saw that as i read it back just now.

he was involved somehow, just forgot his exact role.

didn't mean to send cubed into a melt down... or did I? :o :roll:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Favorite villain performance? Of the six films(I refuse to watch Dark Knight Rises, but I've seen clips- that was enough) I've seen so far, I'd have to go with Michelle's Catwoman for her dual-persona which was sympathetic and a bit perverse at turns, not to mention her vendetta against Shrek. Poison Ivy comes in third for pitting Bats against the Boy Wonder, with Jack's Joker possibly tying for first just because he's closest to my REAL fave Joker (Hammill!), and I'd probably put Ra's in between. I despise Heath's Joker, and none of the others really made much of an impression. Jim and Tommy were fun, but a little too over-the-top. Arnold and both Banes just sucked. Scarecrow was interesting, but it was hard to separate him from the "real" villain in that one. The Nolan movies' version of Two-Face was uninspired and underused. Penguin could have been great had they made him a little less gross, but at least he was interesting and had a decent motive.

[Andrew NDB]

yeah.. my mistake.i saw that as i read it back just now.

he was involved somehow, just forgot his exact role.

Nolan was executive producer.

[raph27]

I didn't know people really disliked Returns until this thread. It's always been one of my favorite Batman movies. I think it's best that Keaton passed on it, a different Batman makes it easy for me to separate two different series (Batman and Batman Returns, then Forever and B&R.) The only thing carried over is Alfred.

[myconius]

yeah.. my mistake.i saw that as i read it back just now.

he was involved somehow, just forgot his exact role.

didn't mean to send cubed into a melt down... or did I? :o :roll:

Nolan was executive producer.

thanks for the clear-up Andrew. :)

i had absolutely NO idea Nolan had any involvement whatsoever with BvS.

hey, guess we learn something new every day? :D

but i still stand by my statement that i've enjoyed all of the Batman movies that have come out to some degree. and have had gripes (big or small) about all of them.

[ProactiveMan]

I love Batman Returns; it may be my favorite, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. I think it's the best written one by a country mile, and it has all of the cool design elements of the 89 Batman, but much more refined. It's my favorite Bat-suit too.

I used to think Batman Forever was OK - worse than the first two but a thousand times better than Batman & Robin, but the last time I watched it, I had to seriously reevaluate its Bat-ranking. Objectively, Batman & Robin is a worse movie; I'm not even sure if it is a movie - it's written like a cartoon, shot like a theme-park ride and staged and lit like Disney On Ice.

Batman & Robin is a total bucket of poo, but I find it enjoyable to watch. The hallucinogen fueled production design, Uma Thurman's bizarre Mae West impression, Arnold Schwarzenegger cracking the worst puns of his career with a blue light on the top of his head - it's entertaining.

Batman Forever on the other hand walks the line between the more serious melodrama that proceeded it and the five-alarm, neon, brain damaging fever dream that followed. It doesn't know what it's trying to be, and the result has aged about as well as a glass of warm milk of similar vintage.

I found it to be utterly cringe-worthy last time I watched it. On one hand you have Chris O'Donnell dealing with the untimely death of his entire family, and whatever psycho-sexual baloney is going on between Val Kilmer and Nicole Kidman, and on the other there's Jim Carey thrusting his pelvis, yelling "joy-gasm" and Tommy Lee Jones cackling away with half of Warwick Davis's leprechaun makeup stuck to his face.

[Vegita-San]

why do people hate #3 rises?

I liked it better than 2. if only cause i hated heath ledger as joker.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

And HE'S the reason I never saw that one. I can't say I hate Rises but I disliked his Joker so much I refused to go watch the third one.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I love Batman Returns; it may be my favorite, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. I think it's the best written one by a country mile, and it has all of the cool design elements of the 89 Batman, but much more refined. It's my favorite Bat-suit too.

I used to think Batman Forever was OK - worse than the first two but a thousand times better than Batman & Robin, but the last time I watched it, I had to seriously reevaluate its Bat-ranking. Objectively, Batman & Robin is a worse movie; I'm not even sure if it is a movie - it's written like a cartoon, shot like a theme-park ride and staged and lit like Disney On Ice.

Batman & Robin is a total bucket of poo, but I find it enjoyable to watch. The hallucinogen fueled production design, Uma Thurman's bizarre Mae West impression, Arnold Schwarzenegger cracking the worst puns of his career with a blue light on the top of his head - it's entertaining.

Batman Forever on the other hand walks the line between the more serious melodrama that proceeded it and the five-alarm, neon, brain damaging fever dream that followed. It doesn't know what it's trying to be, and the result has aged about as well as a glass of warm milk of similar vintage.

I found it to be utterly cringe-worthy last time I watched it. On one hand you have Chris O'Donnell dealing with the untimely death of his entire family, and whatever psycho-sexual baloney is going on between Val Kilmer and Nicole Kidman, and on the other there's Jim Carey thrusting his pelvis, yelling "joy-gasm" and Tommy Lee Jones cackling away with half of Warwick Davis's leprechaun makeup stuck to his face.

I LOLed at all of this! Yup that about sums up both Forever AND B&R. Fun movies but good? Hardly. Like you, I still like Returns a lot though. Just seeing Michelle skip-roping through the store in that outfit and then telling the guards they are overpaid is reason enough for me to enjoy its dark humor and slightly psychotic edge. See, SHE had what Ledger SHOULD have had- a dark and slightly twisted sense of humor and a streak of vicious fun but tempered with some rationality that kept her from going completely into utter raving mad(wo)man territory like he did.