How do you feel about TMNT cartoons making villains into allies by the end of it?

[CyberCubed]

A common thing I noticed with TMNT cartoons lately is most of the long lasting villains of the show become allies by the end of it.

The 2k3 series had Karai and Bishop, and to a lesser extent Baxter, as villains throughout most of the series. By the end of it Karai and Bishop had become the Turtles friends and worked alongside them, and Baxter had been promised a new body in the future by Bishop who had become the president of the Earth. During Ninja Tribunal we had Karai, Bishop, Baxter, Chaplain and even Hun all working with the Turtles to take down the Demon Shredder. The Turtles even invite Karai to April/Casey's wedding with Dr. Chaplain, and Bishop watches it too. :lol:

Then in the Nick series, long-time enemy Tiger Claw declares a truce with the Turtles, and even Nick Bebop/Rocksteady turn a new leaf and decide to become heroes after taking out the Technodrome. Even Fishface was left upon on peaceful terms. Only Rahzar/Chris Bradford stayed "bad" until the very end and that's why he had the worst fate of them all.

Even in the original cartoon we're told time and again that 80's Bebop/Rocksteady aren't really bad guys, and they work alongside the Turtles in some episodes.

Do you think this is a common theme? When a cartoon is airing we're always like, "Oh I wonder how the villains will finally be defeated for good in the final season," but other than Shredder and some other evil villains, a lot of the other long lasting ones become allies.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Too soft, Lock em all up!

[PApagreg]

It depends, if the character shows strong signs of redemption, they are being misled, their goals are somewhat noble, then I can see them being redeemed. It also depends on the execution, the reason why I didn't care for TC turn to face was because I felt it was too apparent and the only times he was shown being a decent human were the times he thought Shredder went too far in some cases but still continued with doing his job without any signs of disbelief towards Shredder

[Prowler]

I guess it depends on how it was written and how "recoverable" said villain is. Regardless, I doubt the 2k3 series was the first notorious cartoon to do that in the history of animation.

I personally was never able to empathise with Karai, tbh. So if they had kept her as villain all the way through I'd not have minded it.

[CyberCubed]

2k3 Karai literally tried to kill the Turtles in their lair in Season 4, yet Leonardo continues to forgive her even after all she had done.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Archie Bebop and Rocksteady also became like good guys.

[Prowler]

2k3 Karai literally tried to kill the Turtles in their lair in Season 4, yet Leonardo continues to forgive her even after all she had done.
Yeah, I know it's a cartoon but holy hell how can someone hust forgive that? :lol:

[neatoman]

Archie Bebop and Rocksteady also became like good guys.

I wouldn't say "good", more like benign and happy.

You know what, scratch happy, doesn't quite seem right. I'm thinking a word with similar meaning might be more appropriate. Cheery? Joyful? Merry? Perky? Chipper? Upbeat? Peppy? Gleeful? I don't know, maybe it'll some to me later...

[newfan]

I wouldn't like to see them all turn good but some characters switching or showing having redemption, yes.

[Utrommaniac]

I wouldn't say "good", more like benign and happy.

You know what, scratch happy, doesn't quite seem right. I'm thinking a word with similar meaning might be more appropriate. Cheery? Joyful? Merry? Perky? Chipper? Upbeat? Peppy? Gleeful? I don't know, maybe it'll some to me later...

You could say their change was quite naked.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

One thing I loved about the last few episodes of the Original Cartoon is how Shredder and Krang ended up helping the turtles save the world by fighting Dregg, even if it was unintentional.

[CyberCubed]

Pretty much every major franchise out there has villains that become good or work with the allies over time.

[Powder]

I have to admit, I've always been a sucker for this concept in general. Like when Bowser teams up with Mario & the gang.

One of the coolest concepts in TMNT history (IMO) ties into this, the episode of Next Mutation where Shredder, now a broken homeless man, is pitied/taken in by Splinter. He turns on him in the end, but there was a lot of potential in that story, & it's especially neat if you think of it as being connected to the live action movies.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's way better than having villains stagnate and just become comedic punching bags.

[CyberCubed]

IDW is doing something similar now with Baxter Stockman. He was their enemy for most of the series and attacked their home with flyborgs, now he's working with April and with the Turtles. I hope he stays good, Baxter works best as a neutral character who gets taken advantage of by Shredder or other villains.

[Prowler]

I have to admit, I've always been a sucker for this concept in general. Like when Bowser teams up with Mario & the gang.

One of the coolest concepts in TMNT history (IMO) ties into this, the episode of Next Mutation where Shredder, now a broken homeless man, is pitied/taken in by Splinter. He turns on him in the end, but there was a lot of potential in that story, & it's especially neat if you think of it as being connected to the live action movies.
You must have liked that FW episode where Donatello and Rocksteady were lost together for a while, then. Don't remember its name. It was a season 3 episode iirc?

Yeah, Bowser as a temporary Mario ally works fine because the Mario series is lighthearted in general and Bowser is only evil in a cartoonish sense, really.

[Powder]

Invasion Of The Turtle Snatchers, & yes, it's a favorite for that very reason! :)

[Prowler]

Invasion Of The Turtle Snatchers, & yes, it's a favorite for that very reason! :)

I've always like how April saved the day in that episode.

[CyberCubed]

I think Dragonball is the biggest franchise that makes most of its villains into allies, like Vegeta, Piccolo, Android 17 and 18, Fat Buu, even to a lesser extent Yamcha and Tien. And currently even Freeza. :lol:

[Prowler]

I think Dragonball is the biggest franchise that makes most of its villains into allies, like Vegeta, Piccolo, Android 17 and 18, Fat Buu, even to a lesser extent Yamcha and Tien. And currently even Freeza. :lol:
All shounen have a couple of bad guys/villains that redeem themselves. In sports anime any "villain" is redeemable since the only thing that makes them bad" in the first place is playing dirty or something.

[Wesley]

Depends on the villains. I don’t have a problem with some of them becoming allies. Them working together with the Turtles temporarily against a greater threat is more interesting to me, though.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Evereyone fought the monster together in "Splinter No More" for a while.

[plastroncafe]

I do love a good redemption arc, but...for me this sort of thing only works with well developed bad guys.

Like...Magneto, or Zuko, or heck even Legend's of Tomorrow's Captain Cold.
Agents of Chaos don't make for good redemption arcs, but characters that are already people, do.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Archie Slash also worked well.

[Wesley]

Evereyone fought the monster together in "Splinter No More" for a while.

Great episode. Shredder was a competent enough villain in that ep, as he managed to free himself, Bebop and Rocksteady from the monster’s clutches.

Also, the Turtles decided to help the Punk Frogs in “Invasion of the Punk Frogs” even though they weren’t on the same side. They also decided to help Shredder and Baxter in “Case of the Killer Pizzas”.

[Spike Spiegel]

Stockman and Bishop's arcs made them the most dynamic characters in 2k3 IMHO.

[shredder orokusaki]

How do i feel about my hencmen betraying me?! You want to know how i feel?! Grrrr arrgggggggg

ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr

first it was 2003 karai and hun!!! Then 2012 rocksteady and bebop!! And of course that crazy mad scientist baxter stockman! All of the stockman have betrayd me except idw stockman!!! Grrrrr!!!!!!
But they will pay for what they did. I will cut their heads and drink their blood!!

[Ninjinister]

It depends, if the character shows strong signs of redemption, they are being misled, their goals are somewhat noble, then I can see them being redeemed. It also depends on the execution, the reason why I didn't care for TC turn to face was because I felt it was too apparent and the only times he was shown being a decent human were the times he thought Shredder went too far in some cases but still continued with doing his job without any signs of disbelief towards Shredder

Tiger Claw....
Decent... Human?

That doesn't add up.

[triplexxx]

Like has been said, is dependent how true a villain any of them is, some were anti-villain, or even anti-hero (i.e. Bishop), some had been dragged through the mud so much (i.e. Stockman) that it could be said they'd, at least somewhat, paid their commupance, and some are guilty of more or worse crimes than others or had more malicious personalities/intentions than others, would also depend if their crimes were actually successful, how much damage they caused, and if they got away with it. Hun was guilty of murder at least once, possibly twice, plus his alliances with good usually temporary & for his own selfish gain, so he could be an example of "irredeemable". The Punk Frogs, never really villains, just misled & naive. Karai kind of bounced back and forth, seemed to have an understanding of good, yet at the same time willingly aided and abetted her "father's" crimes. Bebop & Rocksteady, buffoons, but strong and willing common thugs with street connections. Many alliances were just temporary & only because the turtles & villains had common interests at that particular moment, doesn't mean the villains are redeemed, at least not completely.

[PApagreg]

Tiger Claw....
Decent... Human?

That doesn't add up.

Man Tiger, whatever.

[pferreira]

My take on it is that having enemies fight each other all the time because repetitive. To have the villains redeemed or working together with the heroes provides something new to the dynamic of the show or comic.

I wouldn't say "good", more like benign and happy.

You know what, scratch happy, doesn't quite seem right. I'm thinking a word with similar meaning might be more appropriate. Cheery? Joyful? Merry? Perky? Chipper? Upbeat? Peppy? Gleeful? I don't know, maybe it'll some to me later...Content?

You could say their change was quite naked.I know. The cheeks of it. :D

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Great episode. Shredder was a competent enough villain in that ep, as he managed to free himself, Bebop and Rocksteady from the monster’s clutches.

Also, the Turtles decided to help the Punk Frogs in “Invasion of the Punk Frogs” even though they weren’t on the same side. They also decided to help Shredder and Baxter in “Case of the Killer Pizzas”.

In Archie, Leonardo kicked Rocksteady off an underground bridge only to within the very next moment save him.