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Old 12-02-2017, 12:38 PM   #1
CyberCubed
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How do you feel about TMNT cartoons making villains into allies by the end of it?

A common thing I noticed with TMNT cartoons lately is most of the long lasting villains of the show become allies by the end of it.

The 2k3 series had Karai and Bishop, and to a lesser extent Baxter, as villains throughout most of the series. By the end of it Karai and Bishop had become the Turtles friends and worked alongside them, and Baxter had been promised a new body in the future by Bishop who had become the president of the Earth. During Ninja Tribunal we had Karai, Bishop, Baxter, Chaplain and even Hun all working with the Turtles to take down the Demon Shredder. The Turtles even invite Karai to April/Casey's wedding with Dr. Chaplain, and Bishop watches it too.

Then in the Nick series, long-time enemy Tiger Claw declares a truce with the Turtles, and even Nick Bebop/Rocksteady turn a new leaf and decide to become heroes after taking out the Technodrome. Even Fishface was left upon on peaceful terms. Only Rahzar/Chris Bradford stayed "bad" until the very end and that's why he had the worst fate of them all.

Even in the original cartoon we're told time and again that 80's Bebop/Rocksteady aren't really bad guys, and they work alongside the Turtles in some episodes.

Do you think this is a common theme? When a cartoon is airing we're always like, "Oh I wonder how the villains will finally be defeated for good in the final season," but other than Shredder and some other evil villains, a lot of the other long lasting ones become allies.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:42 PM   #2
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Too soft, Lock em all up!
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:50 PM   #3
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It depends, if the character shows strong signs of redemption, they are being misled, their goals are somewhat noble, then I can see them being redeemed. It also depends on the execution, the reason why I didn't care for TC turn to face was because I felt it was too apparent and the only times he was shown being a decent human were the times he thought Shredder went too far in some cases but still continued with doing his job without any signs of disbelief towards Shredder
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:55 PM   #4
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I guess it depends on how it was written and how "recoverable" said villain is. Regardless, I doubt the 2k3 series was the first notorious cartoon to do that in the history of animation.

I personally was never able to empathise with Karai, tbh. So if they had kept her as villain all the way through I'd not have minded it.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:57 PM   #5
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2k3 Karai literally tried to kill the Turtles in their lair in Season 4, yet Leonardo continues to forgive her even after all she had done.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:09 PM   #6
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Bebop and Rocksteady

Archie Bebop and Rocksteady also became like good guys.
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Because the crossovers doing nothing else than messing up the timeline and other stuff of the 1987-1996 series, I've given up writing fanfiction about it. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the TMNT as many other fanfiction writers do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:13 PM   #7
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2k3 Karai literally tried to kill the Turtles in their lair in Season 4, yet Leonardo continues to forgive her even after all she had done.
Yeah, I know it's a cartoon but holy hell how can someone hust forgive that?
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:13 PM   #8
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Archie Bebop and Rocksteady also became like good guys.
I wouldn't say "good", more like benign and happy.

You know what, scratch happy, doesn't quite seem right. I'm thinking a word with similar meaning might be more appropriate. Cheery? Joyful? Merry? Perky? Chipper? Upbeat? Peppy? Gleeful? I don't know, maybe it'll some to me later...
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:22 PM   #9
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I wouldn't like to see them all turn good but some characters switching or showing having redemption, yes.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:44 PM   #10
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I wouldn't say "good", more like benign and happy.

You know what, scratch happy, doesn't quite seem right. I'm thinking a word with similar meaning might be more appropriate. Cheery? Joyful? Merry? Perky? Chipper? Upbeat? Peppy? Gleeful? I don't know, maybe it'll some to me later...
You could say their change was quite naked.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:59 PM   #11
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One thing I loved about the last few episodes of the Original Cartoon is how Shredder and Krang ended up helping the turtles save the world by fighting Dregg, even if it was unintentional.
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:02 PM   #12
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Pretty much every major franchise out there has villains that become good or work with the allies over time.
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:02 PM   #13
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I have to admit, I've always been a sucker for this concept in general. Like when Bowser teams up with Mario & the gang.

One of the coolest concepts in TMNT history (IMO) ties into this, the episode of Next Mutation where Shredder, now a broken homeless man, is pitied/taken in by Splinter. He turns on him in the end, but there was a lot of potential in that story, & it's especially neat if you think of it as being connected to the live action movies.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:32 PM   #14
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It's way better than having villains stagnate and just become comedic punching bags.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:34 PM   #15
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IDW is doing something similar now with Baxter Stockman. He was their enemy for most of the series and attacked their home with flyborgs, now he's working with April and with the Turtles. I hope he stays good, Baxter works best as a neutral character who gets taken advantage of by Shredder or other villains.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:14 AM   #16
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I have to admit, I've always been a sucker for this concept in general. Like when Bowser teams up with Mario & the gang.

One of the coolest concepts in TMNT history (IMO) ties into this, the episode of Next Mutation where Shredder, now a broken homeless man, is pitied/taken in by Splinter. He turns on him in the end, but there was a lot of potential in that story, & it's especially neat if you think of it as being connected to the live action movies.
You must have liked that FW episode where Donatello and Rocksteady were lost together for a while, then. Don't remember its name. It was a season 3 episode iirc?

Yeah, Bowser as a temporary Mario ally works fine because the Mario series is lighthearted in general and Bowser is only evil in a cartoonish sense, really.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:19 AM   #17
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Invasion Of The Turtle Snatchers, & yes, it's a favorite for that very reason!
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:35 AM   #18
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Invasion Of The Turtle Snatchers, & yes, it's a favorite for that very reason!
I've always like how April saved the day in that episode.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:46 AM   #19
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I think Dragonball is the biggest franchise that makes most of its villains into allies, like Vegeta, Piccolo, Android 17 and 18, Fat Buu, even to a lesser extent Yamcha and Tien. And currently even Freeza.
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Old 12-03-2017, 03:02 AM   #20
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I think Dragonball is the biggest franchise that makes most of its villains into allies, like Vegeta, Piccolo, Android 17 and 18, Fat Buu, even to a lesser extent Yamcha and Tien. And currently even Freeza.
All shounen have a couple of bad guys/villains that redeem themselves. In sports anime any "villain" is redeemable since the only thing that makes them bad" in the first place is playing dirty or something.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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