Corona Virus/Dow Jones taking a hit/possible recession

[The Deadman]

I can't believe Trump is going to give away $1000 to all those moochers and losers! What filthy socialist! :x

Yeah there's a difference between giving people who refuse to work money and giving it to those who CANT work because their jobs shut down.

[IMJ]

My only wish is that all the "Not my president!" people mail the check back. Because why shouldn't they?

Dude that's going on my facebook page....

[frank_one]

475 dead in Italy in the last 24 hours. Damn.

[Sumac]

Russia holds on with only about 150+ infected. Though very few people believe that those are real numbers, given our totalitarian and secretive government and our ****** healthcare.

In Moscow people are panicking and buying stuff like spaghetti, rice and the like. Certain sections in shops are completely empty.

Ruble is plummeting thanks to the "very wise" decision of our government to start an oil war with the Saudi Arabia. A bit more and it will become even more worthless than it was since 2014. And I thought it was not possible. Given that low oil prices were one of the core reasons for the dissolution of the USSR, well...

Meanwhile Putin just prolongated his presidency for the next 12 years.

Fun times ahead.
:twink:

My only wish is that all the "Not my president!" people mail the check back. Because why shouldn't they?
They WILL justify taking it.
Those retards always do. They all bark, no bite. Like stupid dogs, who gonna lick hands of the person, they threatened to bite just a minute ago, because, the guy gave them a tasty sausage.

However, if you had the foresight to call for social safety nets long before the Racist in Chief declared war on the "Chinese Virus" which he already cured, then this should only serve to strengthen our resolve.
Yes, it is a Chinese virus, because, it came from China. And it came to be because of the poor sanitation of the Chinese markets and habit of Chinese people to eat various ****, which shouldn't be edible and their poor hygiene. But all those facts are horribly racist...because reasons. Or just fact that "people on the right side of history" prefer not to notice facts that don't fit in their ideology, because, they are emotionally and mentally are little stupid children, incapable of facing reality without sugar coating it.

But nope, it's all Trump's fault. :P

I won't comment on the rest of the "totally rational and not looking like it was written at the moment of emotional and mental breakdown post" of our "beloved moderator".

[IndigoErth]

My only wish is that all the "Not my president!" people mail the check back. Because why shouldn't they?
Now wait.... It was Romney who proposed and pushed for this. And you guys kind of hate him these days for voting to impeach. So will you guys send it back or tear it up? Or will people suddenly justify taking a handout if Trump says it's okay.

Either way, this isn't Trump's money, it's the American people's money politics aside, so there's little wrong with some of it coming back to help the people, not just corporations, when it is needed.


Personally, even if someone wants to refuse it for whatever reasons they have, I hope even those people take it...then donate it or use it to help neighbors in need. Better off used for something good in all this rather than Trump's golf trips.

[IMJ]

It's absolutely a Chinese virus and leftist mouth breathers who can't accept it are wrong twice.

It is a "Chinese virus" in fact as it's origination was factually in China, until proven otherwise.
It is a "Chinese virus" in the pejorative use of the term as it originated from a disgusting, unkempt meat market born purely of the most disgusting, unclean and down trodden aspect of Chinese culture as opposed to any of the good aspects of the culture.

There's no skirting it, and denial as a function of the "fight against racism" does not make anyone a better person. Instead, denying this makes the denier someone who is likely to repeat their mistakes via their strange and childlike psychology that informs them that any negative statement about race or cultural is racist - which it is not.

During my undergrad, the college I went to had an internal course requirement regarding diversity. We had to read a great book about the plight of immigrants. That was a great component of the course. Then the insipid, wildly liberal instructor shows us a poster of bugs and other bush meat animals and explains in this engineered positivity that other countries eat from all sources of protein as if this was a good thing. She then, in her liberal nonsense, contrasted this by saying that we don't do this in America while employing a shameful tone as if we are wasteful. All while completely neglecting that those bush meat eating countries have strange viruses, bacterial issues and a broad span of life expectancy rather than generational cohorts that improve over time. I couldn't help but think "alright bitch, then you go eat bugs and ****ing possums you manipulative asshat". But I stayed quiet to her BS & tried to find value in the components of that class that were cogent. I got an "A". The whole thing and defense of it is insipid and foolish. In another thread we discussed natural selection. Consider that for a minute if you are reading this and want to deny origins and causal realities.

Now wait.... It was Romney who proposed and pushed for this. And you guys kind of hate him these days for voting to impeach. So will you guys send it back or tear it up? Or will people suddenly justify taking a handout if Trump says it's okay.

Arguing this is a stretch argument whereby someone argues something as a lowest common denominator target. But it isn't cogent and it's an extreme stretch by comparison. Just because we can pencil whip an argument against does make the argument worthwhile or accurate in meaning. It only means that it can be argued in tone and based on the ego that someone could find an argument. It is also like explaining to a diversity class that other people eat bugs and bush meat and are better people for it.

I think that's all that needs to be said about that - no more explanation diffusing it is necessary.

[IndigoErth]

I keep seeing idiots bringing it up elsewhere online, but nitpicking on insisting on calling it the "Chinese virus" adds nothing of value to the conversion. Yes, if it stemmed from the live animal markets then China needs to figure out it isn't a good idea and learn from this. But people can yell at them about that later after the real present problem is gone.


edit: And that response to me reads like a whole lot of nothing and just space filler for lack of a real counterpoint.

[Vicky82]

Here In the UK, Schools are now closed from Friday until further notice. I guess it won't be long until we will be on lock down.

[The Deadman]

I keep seeing idiots bringing it up elsewhere online, but nitpicking on insisting on calling it the "Chinese virus" adds nothing of value to the conversion. Yes, if it stemmed from the live animal markets then China needs to figure out it isn't a good idea and learn from this. But people can yell at them about that later after the real present problem is gone.


edit: And that response to me reads like a whole lot of nothing and just space filler for lack of a real counterpoint.

Crying and calling it racist that it's being called a chinese virus even though that's where the current strain started is even worse.

[Candy Kappa]

Crying and calling it racist that it's being called a chinese virus even though that's where the current strain started is even worse.

But it is racist. Calling it "Chinese Virus", "Wuhan Flu" or "Kung-Flu" have zero value. Naming a illness or a virus after a country or nationality is specifically done to instill racism and othering.

Just like the 1918 H1N1 influenza virus, being called The Spanish Flu

[Redeemer]

It's absolutely a Chinese virus and leftist mouth breathers who can't accept it are wrong twice.

It is a "Chinese virus" in fact as it's origination was factually in China, until proven otherwise.
It is a "Chinese virus" in the pejorative use of the term as it originated from a disgusting, unkempt meat market born purely of the most disgusting, unclean and down trodden aspect of Chinese culture as opposed to any of the good aspects of the culture.

There's no skirting it, and denial as a function of the "fight against racism" does not make anyone a better person. Instead, denying this makes the denier someone who is likely to repeat their mistakes via their strange and childlike psychology that informs them that any negative statement about race or cultural is racist - which it is not.

During my undergrad, the college I went to had an internal course requirement regarding diversity. We had to read a great book about the plight of immigrants. That was a great component of the course. Then the insipid, wildly liberal instructor shows us a poster of bugs and other bush meat animals and explains in this engineered positivity that other countries eat from all sources of protein as if this was a good thing. She then, in her liberal nonsense, contrasted this by saying that we don't do this in America while employing a shameful tone as if we are wasteful. All while completely neglecting that those bush meat eating countries have strange viruses, bacterial issues and a broad span of life expectancy rather than generational cohorts that improve over time. I couldn't help but think "alright bitch, then you go eat bugs and ****ing possums you manipulative asshat". But I stayed quiet to her BS & tried to find value in the components of that class that were cogent. I got an "A". The whole thing and defense of it is insipid and foolish. In another thread we discussed natural selection. Consider that for a minute if you are reading this and want to deny origins and causal realities.


I am curious what was you undergrad???? Just genuinely curious.

Arguing this is a stretch argument whereby someone argues something as a lowest common denominator target. But it isn't cogent and it's an extreme stretch by comparison. Just because we can pencil whip an argument against does make the argument worthwhile or accurate in meaning. It only means that it can be argued in tone and based on the ego that someone could find an argument. It is also like explaining to a diversity class that other people eat bugs and bush meat and are better people for it.

I think that's all that needs to be said about that - no more explanation diffusing it is necessary.
:lol: So that's a no...... :lol:

I keep seeing idiots bringing it up elsewhere online, but nitpicking on insisting on calling it the "Chinese virus" adds nothing of value to the conversion. Yes, if it stemmed from the live animal markets then China needs to figure out it isn't a good idea and learn from this. But people can yell at them about that later after the real present problem is gone.


edit: And that response to me reads like a whole lot of nothing and just space filler for lack of a real counterpoint.

I think people are calling it for two reasons. 1) Bc it is easier to call it the "Chinese Virus" Than "Corin-Vid 19" essentially a nickname or slang for the virus. I really don't see a problem for this reason bc there is no ill intent. Its just convent or easier for them. 2) The other reason they are calling it the "Chinese Virus" is bc conspiracist believe that China manufactured the virus themselves. I would usually brush ideas like this off, but after that scientist coming forward and admitting to making the first genetically altered children I am open to all theories concerning China. :lol:

[Sumac]

But it is racist. Calling it "Chinese Virus", "Wuhan Flu" or "Kung-Flu" have zero value. Naming a illness or a virus after a country or nationality is specifically done to instill racism and othering.
Naming virus after the place is originated is just a statement of a fact. Virus has come from China = "Chinese Virus". It has nothing to do with "othering" or whatever SJW stupid crap you peddle.

Also, as was said before, Chinese government is fully responsible for it existence in the first place, so it is their virus in both geographical and political sense.

Of course, I suspect people like you will cry that Chinese government done nothing wrong and the virus is somehow responsibility of the "evil white people", "sis-gendered patriarchy" or whatever buzzword you will use to look more important.

The fact that we can't even say where the virus had originated, without triggering some tumblristas smells of 1984-like attempt to overwrite history on the fly, not for the state's sake, but to sate the need of the Internet fragile neckbeards and virgin retards for self-flagellation and outrage.

[Redeemer]

Also, as was said before, Chinese government is fully responsible for it existence in the first place,


Say what......... :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

... for allowing the wholesale trapping and eating of wild animals to go on, unabated, right? And the argument could even be made, "There isn't enough food there! They have no choice but to resort to eating bats!" But even there, it comes right back to "it's the fault of the Chinese government."

[Sumac]

Say what......... :lol:
As they say in your fragile circles, educate yourself. (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/world/asia/china-markets-coronavirus-sars.html) :lol:
Unpack this, be better, oh sweetie, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Of course, I fully expect that you will deflect it with something stupid like "but it is their traditions and culture! evul white ppl shouldn't dictate pure and honorable chinese people how to live their lives!". Never mind, that if someone did something like that market in US or Europe you'd be writing angry posts about how those markets should be closed because of how dangerous they are.

[frank_one]

The fact is this is not the first virus to originate in China bringing death to other countries in human history. Something is wrong with China.

[Coola Yagami]

China is ****ed up and I hope after all this Hollywood stops catering to them and making their movie depend on 'whether or not China will get offended'. I know everyone cares more about money than morals but I would love to be making some sort of movie and have some Chinese bigwig be like 'I'm not sure of the Chinese audience would..." and I'd cut them off saying "YOU GUYS GOT UNDER LOCKDOWN FOR A MONTH, THE HELL WITH WHAT YOUR AUDIENCE THINKS".

[Leo656]

If nothing else, this is a great argument for why the "Cultural differences" horse sh*t needs to stop, be it in China or anywhere. Too much f*cked up sh*t happens every day and people ignore it because of "cultural differences".

Some human beings marry and impregnate ten-year olds because of what part of the world they were born in. "Cultural differences". Human beings beat women to death for speaking to a man in public. "Cultural differences". Human beings live in fear of gang violence, rape and murder because an impotent government is not-so-secretly run by cocaine kingpins. "Cultural differences". Human beings eat infected animals and unleash a plague. "Cultural differences". Human beings "play God" and tinker with biological weapons so as to stem the rising tide of overpopulation and they think they can contain it. "Cultural differences".

I'm REALLY sick of some people in parts of the world acting like it's still the goddamn Dark Ages, and other people, in their "compassion and understanding", hand-waving it away as "cultural differences". It's just as racist as anything else, implying "Well, they just don't know any better, and they deserve to preserve their 'culture'," when in 2020 people goddamn do know better, or should.

Calling a Chinese virus "the Chinese virus" isn't racist or "othering", it's a statement. It came from China, period. Some of us aren't entirely convinced it wasn't at least a little bit "accidentally on purpose" to begin with. Silence or thin out the protestors, "get back at Trump", who even knows. Like they even need a reason! All anyone needs to do is pick up a newspaper at any point in the last several decades to realize that sh*t there is SERIOUSLY out of control, and they only get away with it because 3/4 of the world survives off of their slave labor while acting like we don't know it goes on.

THIS is what happens when you elevate a country with such a terrible human rights track record into a global super-power based on nothing but the fact that they have a billion people willing to literally sell themselves into slavery so that you can have cheap sneakers and cell phones.

Let people call it "The Chinese virus". Whatever it takes to get people to STOP looking the other way and START holding people accountable. It's tragic that it had to come to THIS before someone took a look at China and said, "Y'know... there's something wrong with the way those people live." It was easy to turn a blind eye when the entire f*cking planet wasn't on lockdown. But now that we are, I say let the "credit" fall where it's been earned.

"Othering"? They unleashed a f*cking plague. I don't care if their feelings are hurt.

[TommyT]

I'm getting excited. This is getting exciting.

[Leo656]

Like a "Rome burns, Nero fiddles" kinda thing, or...?

My wife and her Dad just got into a fistfight, so yeah, this lockdown sh*t ain't even "officially" started yet and I'm already over it. Jesus Christ.

[Coola Yagami]

Like a "Rome burns, Nero fiddles" kinda thing, or...?

My wife and her Dad just got into a fistfight, so yeah, this lockdown sh*t ain't even "officially" started yet and I'm already over it. Jesus Christ.

Who was the heel and who was the face? Was it just a work?

[Leo656]

He's dealing with the situation by getting drunk and screaming at people, as usual. He hasn't had any alcohol for about a week so he's been fine, but he went to the liquor store earlier when he went out for groceries, so he's been tanked and screaming since 8pm or so. My wife was outside with the dog and he went outside to yell at her and call her names, as he does when he gets bored. He was also following his wife around the house calling her a "stupid c*nt" and when she said she wasn't feeling well, he joked that he hoped she dies. My wife was apparently in the bathroom and yelled at him to knock it off, then when she came out of the bathroom he slapped her in the face, so she threw him on the ground. I was upstairs eating so by the time I got downstairs all I saw was him on the ground hollering about wanting everyone arrested. :roll:

I didn't see the altercation but she and her mom swear by it, and her face is red and puffy on one side. They took pictures. I told him if I'd seen it, he'd be in the f*cking ground, and that 1% reasonable doubt is the only thing keeping him alive right now.

I had to take the phone away and hide it because the last time he went around hitting people, I spent the night in jail because his name is the one on the lease. That time, the cops literally said that since it's his house, he can do or say whatever he wants, up to and including terroristic threats and even physical violence, and since then they've repeatedly insisted upon that, even though we've had to call the cops on him no less than a dozen times in the past few months. "Well, maybe he did say that, and maybe he did hit you, but it's his house, so if he wants you guys out or for us to arrest you, we have to do what he says, not what you say." Awesome! His wife's been talking about selling the house and the three of us abandoning him to rot in the gutter somewhere, but who knows what's gonna happen with all of that NOW. He's still downstairs screaming at the top of his lungs at nobody.

REMEMBER, kids! "Addicts" are NOT terrible, selfish people who deserve to rot in the ground for the suffering they willingly inflict on other people through their selfish and cruel actions... they have PROBLEMS, and therefore deserve our compassion, sympathy, and respect! He's NOT a monster who drinks because he thinks it's fun to terrorize people, who used to beat his other daughter so often that she up and disappeared once upon a time, oh my lord, NO... his Mommy probably yelled at him or something when he was little, and his Daddy probably had a few too many sometimes, as well, so this all really isn't HIS fault! Just because he's a 60-something adult who'd been warned numerous times by everyone from the police to the doctor that he can't keep acting like this doesn't mean he HAS to take any responsibility for his actions! That would be cruel! HE'S the victim, you guys! He has a DISEASE! :lol:

Christ. Not one person on this planet would even notice he was gone and the world would literally be a better place without one more scumbag in it. BUT. Were I to commit the act of public service of twisting his head around backwards for slapping his daughter in the face, *I* would go to jail. "Justice".

SO YEAH, being on lockdown for the next few weeks with this sh*t boiling over is gonna be a super-fun treat, especially when we run out of money and food! :lol: I can't wait to start reading the news about all the murders starting, because lord knows a LOT of people out there live in conditions even worse than this. Domestic violence is about to skyrocket on a global scale any day now, because some people have only survived this long because they were able to temporarily get out of the house and escape this kinda sh*t, and now they can't. People are trapped.

"Addicts". Feh. Kill 'em all, waste of f*cking resources. You'll never hear me say different.

[Redeemer]

As they say in your fragile circles, educate yourself. (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/world/asia/china-markets-coronavirus-sars.html) :lol:
Unpack this, be better, oh sweetie, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Of course, I fully expect that you will deflect it with something stupid like "but it is their traditions and culture! evul white ppl shouldn't dictate pure and honorable chinese people how to live their lives!". Never mind, that if someone did something like that market in US or Europe you'd be writing angry posts about how those markets should be closed because of how dangerous they are.

Dude settle the hell down. I thought you were insinuating that the Chinese government created and released this virus into the public. Also look up "Transference" you keep transferring attributes and ideals of one set of people on to another without cause....

:lol: also you call me fragile? :lol: You are the one who just lashed out and snapped back at me, resorting to insulting me by insinuating and labeling me as "fragile". :lol:

If you cannot keep your emotions in check leave the thread.... and that goes for everyone! People get too butt hurt around when their opinions or world view conflicts with someone else's. :ohwell:

[Voltron]

THIS is what happens when you elevate a country with such a terrible human rights track record into a global super-power based on nothing but the fact that they have a billion people willing to literally sell themselves into slavery so that you can have cheap sneakers and cell phones.

You’re talking from a country that’s been violating human rights for decades, Leo. We also under pay our workers. That’s why you’re hoping that fixed income holds out.

Let people call it "The Chinese virus". Whatever it takes to get people to STOP looking the other way and START holding people accountable.


I’d agree with you, but this is causing serious damage to people (https://time.com/5797836/coronavirus-racism-stereotypes-attacks/). Asian Americans are facing increased prejudice (https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the-uk/the-rise-of-coronavirus-hate-crimes) in the form of assaults (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/coronavirus-racism-europe-covid-19)and harassment (https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-see-increase-in-racism-and-xenophobia-as-coronavirus-spreads)due to the mislabeling.



... for allowing the wholesale trapping and eating of wild animals to go on, unabated, right? And the argument could even be made, "There isn't enough food there! They have no choice but to resort to eating bats!" But even there, it comes right back to "it's the fault of the Chinese government."

Right. Because no one eats anything "weird (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadkill_cuisine)" anywhere else. Or people aren't hungry anywhere else.

My only wish is that all the "Not my president!" people mail the check back. Because why shouldn't they?

Actually, you should mail it to me. I’m finally vindicated by your own heroes. You should be protesting their betrayal of your values, Andrew.

Dude that's going on my facebook page....

From one page to the other. Andrew is not that witty.

Yes, it is a Chinese virus, because, it came from China. And it came to be because of the poor sanitation of the Chinese markets and habit of Chinese people to eat various ****,


Ok, this is going to be fun.

It's absolutely a Chinese virus and leftist mouth breathers who can't accept it are wrong twice.

I’m really glad he said this. Because. . .

It is a "Chinese virus" in fact as it's origination was factually in China, until proven otherwise.
It is a "Chinese virus" in the pejorative use of the term as it originated from a disgusting, unkempt meat market born purely of the most disgusting, unclean and down trodden aspect of Chinese culture as opposed to any of the good aspects of the culture.

This implies that viruses start due to the unsanitary, barbaric behavior of the local people.

Carry this over to swine flu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#History), which started in the American mid west, and IMJ (from the midwest) just called his family filthy savages.

Now, I don't believe that's true. But why IMJ would openly say that is beyond me. Maybe it's because he, like the rest of the brain trust demanding the Chinese take the blame for this, are not the brain trust they want to be.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that it is racist. Demonstrably so. And when you try to disprove that, you end up making ambiguous claims about your family's relationship with pigs.

I'd caution you against that.

Crying and calling it racist that it's being called a chinese virus even though that's where the current strain started is even worse.

Not really. I've already pointed out why you're all wrong. Again. And until IMJ and the rest of you racists learn some respect (and IMJ is kept from pigs), I’m going to have to mod a little harder. :D

[Leo656]

I thought you were insinuating that the Chinese government created and released this virus into the public.

They might've. I've seen just as much "proof" that they didn't as there is "proof" that they did. That's the problem when a country's government controls absolutely all of the information. Nobody "knows" anything.

Under the circumstances, I really don't see any problem with anyone speculating about the very real possibility that it was man-made. We don't know, and there are an awful lot of "coincidences" involved in this scenario. And frankly, I don't believe in "coincidence" in the first place, especially not a whole chain of them.

We'll probably never know. But you can't blame people for wanting to know, and not just dismissing theories because they might be "mean". Anything is possible, up to and including that this was something they engineered and lost control of. You can't say "That's impossible". It's incredibly possible.

I mean, let's assume someone ate some diseased wild animal. It most likely wasn't the Very First Time. Why would THIS time be the one that unleashed the virus? Is that really so much easier to believe than the idea someone dropped a beaker, or didn't close a door, or wash their hands properly? Frankly, THAT, to me, is a lot easier to believe, rather than "Yeah, some dude ate a bat or something and now it's a global plague." That seems... convenient.

Like I said, we'll probably never know, but I have to laugh when people act like they do. If they DID make it on purpose, you really think they'd tell us? They arrested the people who knew about it first, who claimed the government made it and that they were in on it, and some of those people are dead. That's a whole story in itself. But sure, maybe someone just ate some bad meat. MAYBE.

At this point, I barely even care, other than, we need to ensure it doesn't happen again. Good f*cking luck.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]That's a whole story in itself. But sure, maybe someone just ate some bad meat. MAYBE.


I still like the "filthy people" theory. Makes me laugh harder.

We need to stop this from happening again
So with social safety nets and better infrastructure? Maybe access to healthcare? Or is that too pink?

[Krutch]

You figure they'd put Pre-Production on the back burner to put resources into something that's currently moving and working already...

Can you explain that logic to me? I don't work in film, so there's probably something there to it, but most of the time someone with money would cut there losses and come back later and stick with what's already moving for the time being.

Sorry for the late reply but I'm not really around these parts as much these days.

I think the reasoning, and I'm just guessing based on the calls I was part of, is that since we were so early in pre-production there was only a small handful of us at the office, somewhere around 15, so the risk factor wasn't as high when compared to a Production that had a full crew.

MikeandRaph87, your inbox is full so I'll post my reply here. I'm am/was working on a Netflix feature shooting in Vancouver. Honestly, after Riverdale shut down it was basically dominos for all productions here. We spent a whole day in conference calls making sure we weren't getting shut down just to be emailed on our way home not to come in tomorrow. At least we're being paid for two weeks to sit at home. Lots of people didn't even get that.

[Leo656]

You’re talking from a country that’s been violating human rights for decades, Leo. We also under pay our workers. That’s why you’re hoping that fixed income holds out.


Whew. I love you, brother, but there's a HUGE gap between US workers being "under-paid" when there are people getting $15 an hour to do a monkey's job (when they're not so much "underpaid" as it is more that rents and mortgages cost too much; nobody SHOULD get $15 an hour for putting cheese on a f*cking bun, I'm sorry, but by all means, lower the cost of living, that's something we'll agree on), which is the US version of what you're talking about, and literal children on the other side of the world losing their fingers in Nike sweatshops for two cents a day. And when I hear anyone whine about "violations of human rights" in the US, it's usually some junkie with a needle in their arm bitching that The Man wants them to get their sh*t together and stop being a public nuisance and/or health hazard. We're not seeing government thugs smashing people's heads in with bricks for having the audacity to criticize their own government. That's Over There, NOT Over Here.

The US and China ain't even playing the same sport when it comes to who treats its people worse. C'mon, guy.

I agree that it's not good that Chinese and Asian people are being attacked and assaulted because of what one country's government probably did, BUT... well... For three years, I've watched people loudly advocate for assaulting anyone wearing a Trump hat, anything from "punch Nazis" (with anyone who isn't a Democrat being a "Nazi" by default) to "Shoot the President", all without any irony whatsoever, and I've even seen little kids gang-assaulted and beaten so badly on the school bus just for wearing a red hat... "because they deserve it", so... Tit for Tat, I guess?

Like, I personally don't think violence should be used unless someone hits you first, after which all bets are off. BUT, Liberals and progressives have been advocating violence over Words and Ideas for a very long time now, so they have no moral high ground to claim at the moment. They can't act outraged if people are getting beaten up for bad reasons, when they've been TELLING people to beat people up for bad reasons for years now. THIS is where that "Punch Nazis" sh*t gets everyone. I've been trying to calmly explain that to my friends on FB who've been loudly calling for violent anarchists to overthrow the government for years: "It's all well and good to incite violence until people you DON'T wanna see getting punched in the face are getting punched in the face. Nobody should be punching anyone."

I agree, violent racist outbursts are not good. I am not happy that is happening. The virus still came from China, regardless. I simply wish people understood that it's not a problem you can punch away. But I knew it was only a matter of time. Human beings are inherently tribal. ALL human existence is about "Us vs. Them". Always was, always will be. That's why it's not going to get better; it's in our DNA, and you see how little it takes to bring it out of us. Doesn't even have to be racial; we advocate violence and death because someone wears a red hat. And we wonder why we can't be civil, why we look for "bogeymen" to take a swing at when we feel helpless? We're animals. And right now, the animals are confused, helpless, and scared.



I still like the "filthy people" theory. Makes me laugh harder.


So with social safety nets and better infrastructure? Maybe access to healthcare? Or is that too pink?

Maybe don't act like third-world barbarians? I did just see a study that heavily implies that it DID come from eating bats. Okay then. WHAT RATIONAL F*CKING PERSON DOES SH*T LIKE THAT?

It's like I was watching some show on Discovery Channel recently, and the host dude was in some local village and they invited him to take part in an ancient ritual in which they all drank a bunch of cow's blood, which was poured into a cup straight from the jugular vein. And I'm sitting here thinking, "YEAH, wow, nothing like a big cup'a AIDS blood to make me feel like one'a you guys." :roll:

Sure, better healthcare. Social safety nets. Fine. People ALSO need to look at what year it is and stop acting like its 500 years ago, and writing it off as "Cultural Differences". Government-run healthcare isn't the solution when some idiot looks at a rabid animal and thinks it'll make a tasty treat. That's a f*cking End-User Problem.

There ARE no "cultural differences", we're all human beings. What affects one, affects all. Someone's scumbag behavior in another hemisphere creates a butterfly effect that kills people half a world away. If a person needs to be TOLD, "Don't eat bats, dude," then THAT PERSON is a f*cking idiot, and whoever raised or taught them needs to be held accountable for putting sh*t like that in their head, whether it's their parents or their government or who the f*ck EVER. Same thing for child-wives, honor killings, and all the other horse sh*t. It ALL needs to go out with the trash. It only persists because of "cultural differences", and because telling people that it's not okay to eat diseased and infected meat is "racist" because they've been doing it forever and it never turned out poorly until now. IT'S COMMON SENSE! JESUS! It's like telling someone to wipe their ass is "racist". "Well, some countries don't have indoor plumbing." YEAH, WELL, those countries not-too-coincidentally are run by drug kingpins and terrorists, maybe get your f*cking priorities straight and not let people like that be in power, and then you'll HAVE good things.

Sh*t like this more than anything makes me think sometimes that a One World Government is the only solution. I don't WANT that, but... when so much of the world's ills are simply due to "cultural differences", well... then maybe "culture" needs to go away and we all need to agree on what year it is, and what The Rules are.

Because ultimately, that's the only way any of this stops. If some people are SO stupid, that they don't know better than to eat f*cking bats, then a New World Order really is the only way. One race, one language, one economy, and ONE set of rules for all of humanity to live by. If the alternative is death and anarchy, well... maybe it's better that way.

I don't know.

[IMJ]

You’re talking from a country that’s been violating human rights for decades, Leo. We also under pay our workers. That’s why you’re hoping that fixed income holds out.



I’d agree with you, but this is causing serious damage to people (https://time.com/5797836/coronavirus-racism-stereotypes-attacks/). Asian Americans are facing increased prejudice (https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the-uk/the-rise-of-coronavirus-hate-crimes) in the form of assaults (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/coronavirus-racism-europe-covid-19)and harassment (https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-see-increase-in-racism-and-xenophobia-as-coronavirus-spreads)due to the mislabeling.





Right. Because no one eats anything "weird (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadkill_cuisine)" anywhere else. Or people aren't hungry anywhere else.



Actually, you should mail it to me. I’m finally vindicated by your own heroes. You should be protesting their betrayal of your values, Andrew.



From one page to the other. Andrew is not that witty.



Ok, this is going to be fun.


I’m really glad he said this. Because. . .



This implies that viruses start due to the unsanitary, barbaric behavior of the local people.

Carry this over to swine flu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#History), which started in the American mid west, and IMJ (from the midwest) just called his family filthy savages.

Now, I don't believe that's true. But why IMJ would openly say that is beyond me. Maybe it's because he, like the rest of the brain trust demanding the Chinese take the blame for this, are not the brain trust they want to be.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that it is racist. Demonstrably so. And when you try to disprove that, you end up making ambiguous claims about your family's relationship with pigs.

I'd caution you against that.



Not really. I've already pointed out why you're all wrong. Again. And until IMJ and the rest of you racists learn some respect (and IMJ is kept from pigs), I’m going to have to mod a little harder. :D

facepalms at the incredible level of argumentative stupidity and inaccuracy and leaps in logic and circular thinking in this post. There's so much of it here that it's literally not worth my time in any fashion to dissect, disprove or demonstrate how far gone your entire reply here was. And what's worse is that I am so confident that you really believe you're right.

You can't hide your bad argument behind a "racist label", but if stating the origins of the virus issue, and the conditions which released it into a human population is racist, then I am proudly that according to your use of the label. There is no social crime in saying that a pandemic originated from where it originated and having some disgust at the conditions through which it was introduced as a problem. The real social crime is censoring conversations by virtue of your opinion or shutting down conversations through phony shame tactics like calling someone a racist.

And Voltron? You're using that term "racist" pretty liberally. Are you confident that your own online behaviors and commentary and history is that airtight that it wouldn't succumb to the current socio-political-work climate that you use here as a manipulation so frequently? Is your own posting and screen capped history so airtight that you'd be open to anyone in your home, education, work or social life reading an appropriately cultivated history of online postings, group joining, incoherent ramblings, etc but you'd be exonerated for it in the current social and work climate?

If it were tested in real life, how would you fare? What if your online history and behavior wound up "cancelling" you? What if your online history got you labeled you as a racist and you were fired for it? It's easy to do nowadays when people have the same standards as you have employed here, right? Would you still employ those phony tactics on other people? Do you think that you are immune to the phony arguments and manipulations that you've employed here in interactions with other people? The ease by which people pencil whip these things? Do you think that someone can't demonstrate your "racism" or "bullying" or whatever easily pencil whipped nonsense manipulators use nowadays to have people or conversation "cancelled"? Do you think your own tactics can't be flung against you to impact your life?

Or haven't you realized that you aren't the hero - you've simply survived so far on everyone else's tolerance. Even the people you insult. Tolerance. Ironic, isn't it? Of course this little social experiment relies on your honesty in reply. No one here has the power to use that data because you are obviously anonymous on the Ninja Turtles forum, but the point stands. But can you fess up to your own ******** without the real threat of this held to your head? I doubt it. But think about it at night when you go to sleep and aren't online.

[TommyT]

I'm betting on April 1st. I'm thinking we need to start a pool, make it interesting...

[Voltron]

Whew. I love you, brother,

Gladly accepted and returned!

I hope by now you know that I tend not to say things unless I have something to back it up.

but there's a HUGE gap between US workers being "under-paid" when there are people getting $15 an hour to do a monkey's job (when they're not so much "underpaid" as it is more that rents and mortgages cost too much;nobody SHOULD get $15 an hour for putting cheese on a f*cking bun, I'm sorry, but by all means, lower the cost of living, that's something we'll agree on), which is the US version of what you're talking about, and literal children on the other side of the world losing their fingers in Nike sweatshops for two cents a day. And when I hear anyone whine about "violations of human rights" in the US, it's usually some junkie with a needle in their arm bitching that The Man wants them to get their sh*t together and stop being a public nuisance and/or health hazard.

1. Current US minimum wage is $7.25. McDonald's starts you off a little higher (https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=McDonald%27s_Restaurants_Ltd./Hourly_Rate).

2. Controlling prices is very much an authoritarian, communist move. A core belief of the GOP and conservatives across the board is that the government has no place in a free market.

And to an extent, I agree. There's certain lines the government shouldn't be crossing in that regard. Price capping is a dangerous area to enter when discussing any of this.

We're not seeing government thugs smashing people's heads in with bricks for having the audacity to criticize their own government. That's Over There, NOT Over Here.

Trump has asked for people to attack protesters and praised their efforts on the follow through. (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/back-trump-comments-perceived-encouraging-violence/story?id=48415766)

The US and China ain't even playing the same sport when it comes to who treats its people worse. C'mon, guy.

To sides of the same coin, brother. One doesn't exist without the other.

I agree that it's not good that Chinese and Asian people are being attacked and assaulted because of what one country's government probably did, BUT... well...


Thank you.


For three years, I've watched people loudly advocate for assaulting anyone wearing a Trump hat, anything from "punch Nazis" (with anyone who isn't a Democrat being a "Nazi" by default) to "Shoot the President", all without any irony whatsoever, and I've even seen little kids gang-assaulted and beaten so badly on the school bus just for wearing a red hat... "because they deserve it", so... Tit for Tat, I guess?

There's a lot to unpack here.

1. The term Nazi has been thrown around so much that it doesn't have much meaning or impact anymore. Sumac called liberals Nazis the other day. I don't think anyone knows what Nazism is.

2. Again, Trump has openly called for violence. That was answered (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/12/07/neo-nazi-convicted-murder-charlottesville-car-assault-killed-heather-heyer/2243848002/). By a Neo-Nazi, oddly enough.

3. And then some by the MAGA bomber (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/cesar-sayoc-sentenced-to-20-years-for-sending-bombs-to-trump-critics.html).

Like, I personally don't think violence should be used unless someone hits you first, after which all bets are off.

There's a lot to discuss here, too. The 2nd Amendment exists for a reason. Jefferson even said it was to kill the government should the government over step it's reach.

What bothers me most about it is that during 8 years of Obama, there were no militias rising up to take out the dictator.

All jokes aside, tit for tat is an eye for an eye. That leaves everyone blind.

BUT, Liberals and progressives have been advocating violence over Words and Ideas for a very long time now,

so they have no moral high ground to claim at the moment. They can't act outraged if people are getting beaten up for bad reasons, when they've been TELLING people to beat people up for bad reasons for years now. THIS is where that "Punch Nazis" sh*t gets everyone. I've been trying to calmly explain that to my friends on FB who've been loudly calling for violent anarchists to overthrow the government for years: "It's all well and good to incite violence until people you DON'T wanna see getting punched in the face are getting punched in the face. Nobody should be punching anyone."

Hence no tit for tat. But we're talking about the fringe lunatics here. Regular people don't make the news. We aren't interesting enough. The insanity eventually bleeds down to us, though.


I agree, violent racist outbursts are not good. I am not happy that is happening. The virus still came from China, regardless. I simply wish people understood that it's not a problem you can punch away.

I don't think anyone is unfamiliar with the origin of the disease. That's not what's being contested.

What I'm saying is that if I attach a name to something, it acts as an attack on everyone and everything that name is associated with.

During the government shut down, I changed the title of the thread to the Trump Shut Down and the conservatives on the board lost their mind. This despite Trump literally claiming responsibility for it ON TAPE.

My point is that this is a racial thing. And no amount of arguing is explaining is going to change that. It's the same as calling AIDS Gay Related Immuno Deficiency. Not really all that helpful to start pointing at homosexuals and saying "look! they're diseased!"

But I knew it was only a matter of time. Human beings are inherently tribal. ALL human existence is about "Us vs. Them".

No, it isn't. I don't live in the United States anymore. I fled during the Obama years and moved abroad. I'm a racial minority here and no one really gives me **** for it.

Always was, always will be.

If you make it.

That's why it's not going to get better; it's in our DNA, and you see how little it takes to bring it out of us.

Or we could just pull the frame back a bit and see that something that started in one place infected the whole world. We're irreversibly connected now. That's why this xenophobic stuff isn't going to play out. We can't untangle ourselves from each other.

Doesn't even have to be racial; we advocate violence and death because someone wears a red hat.

You know someone just unfurled a swastika flag at a Sanders rally, right? The man had relatives killed in the Holocaust.



Maybe don't act like third-world barbarians? I did just see a study that heavily implies that it DID come from eating bats. Okay then. WHAT RATIONAL F*CKING PERSON DOES SH*T LIKE THAT?

Americans eat roadkill, dude.

It's like I was watching some show on Discovery Channel recently, and the host dude was in some local village and they invited him to take part in an ancient ritual in which they all drank a bunch of cow's blood, which was poured into a cup straight from the jugular vein. And I'm sitting here thinking, "YEAH, wow, nothing like a big cup'a AIDS blood to make me feel like one'a you guys." :roll:


Drinking blood is a pretty common practice the world over.

[Voltron]

Sure, better healthcare. Social safety nets. Fine. People ALSO need to look at what year it is and stop acting like its 500 years ago, and writing it off as "Cultural Differences". Government-run healthcare isn't the solution when some idiot looks at a rabid animal and thinks it'll make a tasty treat. That's a f*cking End-User Problem.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Getting mad at someone for burdening the system is fine, but it's always going to happen. And in varying degrees. People eat unhealthy. People smoke. People drink anti-freeze.

I don't care if we have to save dumb asses. We already are. There's 7 billion people on the planet and at least one of them just argued that they're partially responsible for swine flu. I don't want to bar people just because they aren't killing it in the education department.

There ARE no "cultural differences", we're all human beings. What affects one, affects all. Someone's scumbag behavior in another hemisphere creates a butterfly effect that kills people half a world away. If a person needs to be TOLD, "Don't eat bats, dude," then THAT PERSON is a f*cking idiot, and whoever raised or taught them needs to be held accountable for putting sh*t

I dunno. I just watched a documentary on the Unabomber. Felt really bad for his family.

because telling people that it's not okay to eat diseased and infected meat is "racist"

There's speculation that we've seeded prions through our poorly run meat industry. We could be sitting on an incurable pandemic that drives everyone nuts in 30-40 years.

IT'S COMMON SENSE! JESUS!

So is washing hands. But the first guy who suggested was sent to the mental asylum.

It's like telling someone to wipe their ass is "racist".

Ironically, a Chinese invention!

"Well, some countries don't have indoor plumbing." YEAH, WELL, those countries not-too-coincidentally are run by drug kingpins and terrorists, maybe get your f*cking priorities straight and not let people like that be in power, and then you'll HAVE good things.

We've had presidents who were convicted of war crimes. We also have towns with no reliable plumbing.


Sh*t like this more than anything makes me think sometimes that a One World Government is the only solution. I don't WANT that, but... when so much of the world's ills are simply due to "cultural differences", well... then maybe "culture" needs to go away and we all need to agree on what year it is, and what The Rules are.

It's weird to hear that, since that's also a tremendous fear of the right.

Because ultimately, that's the only way any of this stops. If some people are SO stupid, that they don't know better than to eat f*cking bats, then a New World Order really is the only way. One race, one language , one economy, and ONE set of rules for all of humanity to live by. If the alternative is death and anarchy, well... maybe it's better that way.

It could be argued that a one world government already exists. The provisions in a lot of the international trade deals cede our sovereignty to corporations. These same corporations have interconnected our world, allowing these viruses to spread.


Also, this is exactly what ended up killing the Native Americans. There's not a whole lot here that we can't say about ourselves, either.

[Wildcat]

So I wasn’t sure about posting this because I thought it might be too silly or out of place. It was just a fun thought to lighten the mood. I’m not actually expecting this.

It’d be cool if aliens showed up to save earth from this virus. Like what if they’ve never truly revealed themselves because they were waiting for a big enough reason? Something so significant they thought it was time to help us so they give us a cure because a vaccine would take too long.

What if this alien race never intervened before because they wanted us to learn things for ourselves but because humans and the planet were threatened they felt they had to step in.

Hope this didn’t come off stupid or inappropriate. Just things run through your mind. Ya know chaos emeralds are also used for healing :)

[Voltron]

You can't hide your bad argument behind a "racist label", but if stating the origins of the virus issue, and the conditions which released it into a human population is racist, then I am proudly that according to your use of the label. There is no social crime in saying that a pandemic originated from where it originated and having some disgust at the conditions through which it was introduced as a problem. The real social crime is censoring conversations by virtue of your opinion or shutting down conversations through phony shame tactics like calling someone a racist.

The social crime is using an umbrella term to vilify everyone in a region. The joke being that you're not in any way, shape, or form responsible for swine flu anymore than the general population of China. But we're still calling it the "Chinese virus" because. . . what? Are you saying we should force China to change the way they live? Isn't that imposing our will on another person? Are you not against that?

And Voltron? You're using that term "racist" pretty liberally. Are you confident that your own online behaviors and commentary and history is that airtight that it wouldn't succumb to the current socio-political-work climate that you use here as a manipulation so frequently?

I'm sure I would!

Is your own posting and screen capped history so airtight that you'd be open to anyone in your home, education, work or social life reading an appropriately cultivated history of online postings, group joining, incoherent ramblings, etc but you'd be exonerated for it in the current social and work climate?

I try to keep the extreme left out of my life. Despite popular belief, I'm not that far to the left. I'm just not insane. I'm also willing to let people call themselves a "non-binary asexual androgyny" or whatever suits them because it doesn't impact my life in any way. There's way more important things to worry about than Geena Davis or Captain Marvel.


If it were tested in real life, how would you fare? What if your online history and behavior wound up "cancelling" you? What if your online history got you labeled you as a racist and you were fired for it? It's easy to do nowadays when people have the same standards as you have employed here, right? Would you still employ those phony tactics on other people? Do you think that you are immune to the phony arguments and manipulations that you've employed here in interactions with other people? The ease by which people pencil whip these things? Do you think that someone can't demonstrate your "racism" or "bullying" or whatever easily pencil whipped nonsense manipulators use nowadays to have people or conversation "cancelled"? Do you think your own tactics can't be flung against you to impact your life?

I mean. . . I already said they'd go ape ****. I don't know what more you want.

Or haven't you realized that you aren't the hero -

Of course I'm the hero! I'm super great!

All joking aside, I do typically stand by my BS. Both in real life and online. I've been pretty gentle with you guys, too. I've reigned it in over the years.

If you want to start a hate club, you wouldn't be the first. :lol:

[TommyT]

I'm betting on April 1st. I'm thinking we need to start a pool, make it interesting...

Is nobody going to update that second hand and move it closer to ****ing midnight? Are we really being this lax with tradition? We’ve got to be closer to 30 seconds by now! Where are the science nerds to do the big photo op!

Must I do everything myself!!!

Doomsday clock (https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/current-time/#)

[Andrew NDB]

Actually, you should mail it to me. I’m finally vindicated by your own heroes. You should be protesting their betrayal of your values,

Not at all. My very liberal governor did this. One hour after the press conference a week ago, everything fell apart here. Whether right or wrong. I am able and very willing to work and will be made to not be so... probably any day now. A stopgap to contend with something we're literally being forced into against our will, forced out of our jobs, isn't the same thing as "fwee evweething foh awlll foweverrr!" It's not a very difficult distinction.

t's the same as calling AIDS Gay Related Immuno Deficiency.

Not remotely. If there was a country called "Gay" and it originated there, then yes. Or more on point, if it simply manifested in homosexuals one day as the origin story (hint: it didn't), then also yes. Not even close to apples to apples.

Also, always a fun resource every time someone says "some racist did this!"/"Trump 'inspired' this!"

https://www.attacksontrumpsupporters.com/

[Voltron]

Not remotely. Definitely.

You said Robocop could be considered chrome washing in reference to white washing. You're not on good footing here.

Also, a stop gap is very much welfare. No one ever argued for free everything.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I had to go handle a situation.

Off-topic Update from earlier: So her Dad wouldn't stop screaming at the walls and we're all fed up, so I finally went and told him to knock it off, again, because it was almost 3am and people are trying to relax. Loud words were exchanged, he spends the better part of a half hour screaming at me that he doesn't HAVE to shut up, it's "his house", he wants everybody dead, yadda yadda, we're all trash, yadda yadda... I keep saying, "We can ALL have peace and quiet the second you knock this off, so KNOCK IT OFF and go to bed already, like we're all trying to do." No dice. So it gets loud, and then out of nowhere he reaches under the bed and whips out the BIGGEST f*cking knife you've ever seen, gets up and starts coming at me with it. Like literally, 6 inches away from me, walking towards me and laughing. My wife was taking a piss, I holler, she calls 911. His wife comes barging out of the bedroom and sees him trying to hide the knife and wrestles it away from him, while he meekly tries to pull a "I din't do nuffin." :roll:

The cops seemed less interested in me, since they didn't SEE the knife incident, but they didn't so much like hearing about how he slapped my wife in the face earlier. He tried crying the blues swearing that we beat him up, as he usually tries to, but they didn't want to believe him this time for whatever reason. So they called an ambulance and made him go to the hospital for "psychiatric evaluation". Too bad we didn't get him with the knife on camera this time; last time he pulled that he got locked up for a week.

So yeah, I'm a little bit shook, so I think I'm gonna step back from this chat for the moment because I'm not really in the mood for it. Might chime in later. Really need to relax. I WILL say, this dude's been drunkenly screaming at the TV for three goddamn years about wanting to shoot Trump, and anyone who likes him, in the face. SO, to the Dems, I'll just say, "Claim your own." I know TOO many of these kind'a people, but they only vote Blue. Perhaps it's different elsewhere; meanwhile, there's a guy next door with a giant f*cking Trump flag on a pole outside his house and he never makes a peep. People can pick whatever side they want, and if it's different elsewhere or for other people, then good, fine, whatever. I can only call what I f*cking see. And what I *personally* am "lucky" enough to see, is a drunken asshole who spends his days screaming about killing Trump and his nights screaming about killing us.

I love my wife but we're only here at her and her Mom's insistence. I can't live like this anymore.

Anyway, yeah, I don't know brother. There's a lot I wanted to address in your post, Voltron, but right now I'm just not in the mood.

UPDATE: Oh, yay, they already released him from the hospital because obviously there's no room for him. TAKE HIM TO JAIL, ASSHOLES. "We didn't SEE him threaten you with a knife." But his wife's testimony that she had to wrestle the knife away from him means nothing. :roll:

Yeah, someone in this house is not going to survive the week. Just not sure who it's gonna be that goes.

I knew he was gonna pull this sh*t since there's no way to be punished for it since we're under "martial law". I f*cking KNEW IT.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Kill your local "addicts" today, kids. They're just taking up space and you'll be doing a valuable public service. It's literally Them or You.

[Voltron]

Point made.

My neighbor shot his wife when he found out she didn't vote for Trump. Sad incident. Earlier he insisted we all put Trump stuff on our front yard to show solidarity. Got into a fist fight with another neighbor who didn't share his enthusiasm. Guy shouldn't have been out of prison but. . . oh well.

I also read the attacksontrumpsupporters.com that Andrew put up. Apparently he didn't. Some of them weren't attacks. A few of them weren't on Trump supporters. And one was actually a right winger distributing anti-semitic literature in a predominately Jewish neighborhood. So I guess these guys didn't read their website either. Weird.

Interesting that there were deaths that I could find, either. I searched the top 10.

Unfortunately, the same can't be said on the other side. Trump supporters have spilled blood. . .

[Leo656]

When it's on my street and in my house, I'll gladly throw down a flag.

Right now, I haven't ever had a giant knife waved in my face by a Trump supporter, so I'm thinking of asking the neighbor if he's got a spare room. His house is twice the size of ours and nobody over there ever yells. People laugh. They have fun over there. Cops never get called. I'm jealous. I'd take my chances with him and his giant TRUMP 2020 flag over this wonderful "liberal Democrat" and his drunken lunacy.

I'm mostly just venting. This guy's terrible at being a liberal, he just votes Democrat because they keep promising him free sh*t. He's incredibly racist and hates everything and everyone. He wants Trump dead, but all the "n*****s and f*****s", too. He actually BEHAVES more like the stereotypical, cartoon super-villain Trump supporter you read about, except he only votes Blue, because again, Free Sh*t. Makes me wonder how many of them are out there.

In any case, a good example of not judging an entire party by the scumbags who vote for them. I know that, logically. But again, I can only call what I see, and I sadly interact with more people Like This who say they lean Left than otherwise. When I meet and have threats of violence made towards my person by someone in a MAGA hat, I'll gladly call them an asshole.

They must be holding those people somewhere else, though. I wouldn't doubt it if NJ truly is some kind of parallel universe, where the Conservatives are the sane people and the Liberals are the unhinged psychos. BUT. That's the reality of life in my little neck of the woods. I can't explain it, I just Observe and Report.

I've also been holding a piss for FOUR HOURS because the bathroom is downstairs and I really don't want to deal with this piece of sh*t. Ya boy's got the life, man.

[Voltron]

Yeah...

I'm sorry man. Sounds like the guy has worse problems than politics. If you need to vent proper, I got an open ear. I'm not an asshole all the time.

Take care of yourself, bro.

[Leo656]

I hear ya. Doing my best.

Like, the cops laughed about him slapping my wife/his own daughter in the face, because they didn't see it and she only had a little red mark. Literally laughed. The knife, less so, but again, "Well, we didn't SEE it, so..."

I cannot STAND the "jury of your peers" thing. It's not true! "Peers" would involve people who knew the people involved so they could make a valid judgment based on precedent and behavior. "Impartiality" has no place in matters such as these. In the eyes of the "impartial" law, he's a generous old coot and we're freeloaders, despite the fact that his own wife has BEGGED them to get him the f*ck out because he's even pushed her around more than once, and they've repeatedly refused. Mostly because he was a Marine once upon a time. The ONE time I got involved, *I* did the time for it. So I can't even protect them without risking being arrested, because they just do not give a sh*t at all. "His name is on the lease, he can threaten or beat up whoever he wants. What YOU guys can't do, is put hands on HIM or you go to jail." Pretty sure that isn't true, BUT, I'm not the one wearing the badge, and they've said it SO many times, that... well...

But that's what I mean about "being judged by a jury of my peers". Find twelve people who KNOW this guy, and put them in those chairs. Let me end him, for the good of all humanity, and all twelve of those people will say, "Oh, THANK GOD he's gone, give this man a medal and a parade!" That's the truth. BUT. To an "impartial" judge and jury, I'd be some punk who murdered a defenseless old man, rather than a hero who set people free from living under the tyranny of a monster. And I'd be punished. That's not justice. "Justice" would be me twisting off his head for even threatening to hit my f*cking wife. But I can't do that.

So yeah, we're stuck in lockdown with a f*cking monster indefinitely because some f*ckwit ate a diseased wild animal for ha-ha's. I am NOT in a good f*cking mood.

[Voltron]

Is there no way to tape him? You have a phone or some kind of recording device?

The story of police inaction in these cases tends to be pretty common. There's a lot that goes on in that, none of which is going to be particularly helpful to you.

If you can record the guy in some way (which doesn't sound like it'd be that difficult) then it would give a better foundation for pressing charges.

[Leo656]

Actually the last time he pulled the knife gimmick, like a year or two ago, my wife had him on camera, thus why he actually got arrested (they actually barged in with guns drawn for that one). Nothing came of it, though. "Catch and release". Didn't even pay a fine for making Terroristic Threats. I've paid THOUSANDS of dollars in my life just for f*cking yelling at people. Dude gets caught on camera waving a knife around and saying he's gonna kill someone with it, and the best thing the cops can say is, "Well, next time maybe let him cut you a little, you'll have a better case." :roll:

When he slapped her, she was apparently on her way out of the bathroom and didn't see it coming. And likewise, she was in the bathroom when he came at me with the knife and thus didn't get to catch him. She's been apologizing over and over but I'm like, "It's not your fault, this isn't normal and thus you couldn't have predicted it."

We'd pretty much just have to hide a camera and let it run 24/7 because he tries hard to play the fool when he gets caught in the act.

His wife doesn't wanna lose the house so she's been more lenient than he deserves with this sh*t, despite hating his guts. She's getting old, doesn't wanna downsize because we have a big chunk of property... I mean, I get it. She wants SOME stability, but him even being here is counter to that. They pretty much live in separate rooms and hardly interact. And he plays the shared mortgage for all it's worth, too; whenever he gets arrested or taken away, he just reminds her that he can stop signing over his check, so she lets him come home. And the cops remind her, "You can press charges, but you're gonna lose the house if you do." So she never does. She had a restraining order a few months ago, but again, she had to drop it.

I think she'd just rather have him die, and then we have to move because of THAT, rather than be forced to give it all up because of his sick little games. He's supposedly got some kind of tumor on his liver so the three of us are hoping like hell that it finally does the job. Not soon enough for me. People like that, miserable, hate-filled people who get off on other peoples' suffering and misery, seem to live figuratively forever.

Like, if you ask him WHY he acts like this, it's "Because I can! It's MY house!" And legally, yeah, that's all that matters. My own Dad used to pull similar sh*t and even when I was a minor they never did sh*t to stop it. I once had a Prosecutor tell me, "As far as I'm concerned, your Dad could beat you to death and I wouldn't punish him for it, I'd assume he had a good reason for it, because he's your Dad and you're just a punk kid as far as I know. That's how it was in my day, and the way it should be now." And that's a guy responsible for the enforcement of the laws, who advises the judges on how to sentence! If that doesn't completely wreck any and all faith you may have in "The System", well then I don't know. That was pretty much when I officially threw up my hands and started following my own "law", since the real one ain't good for jack sh*t.

Like, I "behave" because I don't like being in jail, and don't feel like I deserve to be there. But not because I have any respect whatsoever for anyone wearing a uniform or a badge, I absolutely do not. Those people are worth less even than the meaningless words on paper that my taxes pay them to ignore completely. "The Law" says that I'd be a criminal for killing this guy; common sense says I'd be a hero.

Regardless, I wouldn't get my own film franchise for doing the right thing, I'd just rot in some sh*thole. Because that's what's "fair". And people wonder why I don't believe in things.

I don't know. "One day at a time," right? But if it's THIS bad already, then Jesus, I don't know how we're gonna last X weeks like this.

Guess we'll find out. Sigh. People living in China (ones who haven't been censored by the government) swear the situation hasn't improved one bit, that the "recovery" is all a PR smokescreen, and U.S. officials are saying there could be widespread shortages for up to 18 months. Still no word on when this sh*t's supposed to ease up. Nobody knows anything.

I kinda wish the Mayans were right. Everything's been pretty sh*tty after 2012 anyway. That would've been a great time to pull the plug. This show sucks.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Holy $hit, man. :teek:

[Leo656]

And you know me better than most! :lol:

It is what it is. Until society stops coddling "addicts" and starts treating it like Stupid People Making Other People Suffer For Their Own Bad Choices and not like THEY're the ones who need "help", things like this will always happen.

I think the band Stormtroopers Of Death said it best:

"Junkie, crackhead, drugged-out punk
Sleeping in the dirt and piss
Scheming of a better way
Sh*t out of luck, he needs his fix
Dirty, stinky, smelly bum
Rotten teeth and bleeding gums
Lying, crying 'Always me'
Wanter of everything, everything free

Why should I care, or shed a tear?
Life isn't fair, life isn't sweet
Return to the dirt and piss where you sleep
With free dirty needles
And your rotten teeth... go!

Put it off, procrastinator
Jacking off, alley masturbation
Burden on society
Working to fulfill your only true need
Windshield washer, candy man
Garbage picker, counting cans
Bumming change from you and me
And claims he's the victim of society

Free Dirty Needles!

Dirty like you
Push hard to stick
Pincushion prick

Free Dirty Needles for you!"


Granted, This One is "merely" an alcoholic, but if you live with or interact with enough of these people for long enough, you see right through the bullsh*t and that it's all just one flavor of nonsense with a different color of sprinkles on it.

Nobody's an "addict"; they just care more about their own fun and games and don't care who they hurt. They know they're all gonna turn out like this, they just don't care. Our job to deal with it, our job to enable them. I say, round 'em all up and pull the f*cking switch.

But then, I'm simply not very "nice".

[AquaParade]

So what do y'all think of the stimulus proposals?

[Leo656]

Interesting idea. Emergencies are emergencies, after all. We'll see how it actually plays out.

The in-laws pay the mortgage so I'm mostly just worried about food. Thus, the stores being mostly closed and not having anything on the shelves right now worries me the most. No use having money I can't spend, after all. Also don't have a bank account, little bit concerned about how I'm gonna cash any checks that do come my way. But I'm sure there'll be something in place. I *think* the local check cashers are still open, at least part-time? I'unno, we'll see.

I hope the hoarding and panic buying subsides soon, but... it won't. Like it's nice that everyone might get a "free" check outta this whole fiasco, but people gotta eat. Can't eat money. One of the local independent wrestling promotions organized a food drive, that was pretty neat to see.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Interesting idea. Emergencies are emergencies, after all. We'll see how it actually plays out.

The in-laws pay the mortgage so I'm mostly just worried about food. Thus, the stores being mostly closed and not having anything on the shelves right now worries me the most. No use having money I can't spend, after all. Also don't have a bank account, little bit concerned about how I'm gonna cash any checks that do come my way. But I'm sure there'll be something in place. I *think* the local check cashers are still open, at least part-time? I'unno, we'll see.

I hope the hoarding and panic buying subsides soon, but... it won't. Like it's nice that everyone might get a "free" check outta this whole fiasco, but people gotta eat. Can't eat money. One of the local independent wrestling promotions organized a food drive, that was pretty neat to see.

Yeah, money's not really the biggest problem. Food (and toilet paper) is. And if stores close... what, are we supposed to wipe our @ss with the check because we can't get into the stores to buy stuff?

[Candy Kappa]

But not because I have any respect whatsoever for anyone wearing a uniform or a badge, I absolutely do not

It what happens when the requirements for being a cop in the States are hilariously low, and got super short education period.

[IndigoErth]

If anyone with a local Aldi store is looking for toilet paper, check there. Mine actually had some. Was disappearing, but probably a recent shipment.

Their stock was still pretty decent. Getting a bit slim in some areas compared to other times I've been there, but still got most of what I went for. (Toilet paper wasn't originally on that list, but when you see someone walking out with a pack of it you don't hesitate... lol)

[Voltron]

I think it's more for people who can't pay the bills due to being out of work, not so much having death matches for TP.

It's a weird thing to see after arguing that there was no way we could pay for something like that.

That being said, I do think it'll jump the economy a bit if they time it right. Poor people don't invest money. They spend it. Which means a higher demand for goods which means more hires which means a positive feedback loop.

Here's hoping it works out.

[AquaParade]

My understanding is that it is meant to be a bit of a circular solution - you can even use it for things you don't "need", because the point is to stimulate the economy. Yeah, you might not need a Happy Gilmore DVD, but it helps business keep their doors open.

I'm no expert on the matter. Still learning.

[Andrew NDB]

It's a weird thing to see after arguing that there was no way we could pay for something like that.

It's a weird thing to see you not understanding the basic difference between a two or three month stopgap for the working class because of a pandemic vs. a permanent way of life for all, even Hobo Joe who refuses to apply for any jobs.

[IndigoErth]

*facepalm* Is this real? Totally unnecessary dog whistle much?

https://twitter.com/jabinbotsford/status/1240701140141879298

Jabin Botsford
@jabinbotsford
Close up of President @realDonaldTrump notes is seen where he crossed out "Corona" and replaced it with "Chinese" Virus as he speaks with his coronavirus task force today at the White House. #trump #trumpnotes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETfa0B8XkAUo8kF?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETfa0B-XQAIg63A?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Why is the typeface so big? Are his eyes going bad? And that is just cringeworthy regardless. Not a racist, my left foot!

[Redeemer]

It what happens when the requirements for being a cop in the States are hilariously low, and got super short education period.

You have know idea how difficult it is to become a law-enforcement officer for a mid or major department such as State Police. It is insanely difficult to get on and you have to learn a ridiculous amount of material in a short amount of time.
Now small cities on the other hand..... :lol:

[IndigoErth]

Why is the typeface so big? Are his eyes going bad? And that is just cringeworthy regardless. Not a racist, my left foot!
It kind of reminds me of the font size used in the early learning reading books for kids. lol

[Sumac]

"Addicts". Feh. Kill 'em all, waste of f*cking resources. You'll never hear me say different.
You have my sympathy. I've dealt with similar stuff for a large part of my life and I've got to the same conclusion.

Of course, some people will cry "b-b-but they just need more compassion and empathy", but I think those people never dealt with several years of abuse at the hands of the same person, despite your desperate pleads for them to stop.

It is easy to pretend that you are nigh-saint and full of compassion and empathy...until some freak turns your life into nightmare for several years in the row.

Dude settle the hell down. I thought you were insinuating that the Chinese government created and released this virus into the public. Also look up "Transference" you keep transferring attributes and ideals of one set of people on to another without cause....
I've got facts for you and your answer is: "you are transferring **** on people". :roll:

I do not blame all people of China, I blame only those who were trading and eating ****, as well, as their government for doing nothing about it. It has nothing to do with race.

If you see here "racism" than it is you who are racist, because, you are automatically assume that culture = race and that all Chinese has the same culture.

:lol: also you call me fragile? :lol: You are the one who just lashed out and snapped back at me, resorting to insulting me by insinuating and labeling me as "fragile". :lol:
If you consider that an insult, I dreading to think how you'll react to REAL insults. Must be some fascinating breakdowns.

Right. Because no one eats anything "weird (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadkill_cuisine)" anywhere else. Or people aren't hungry anywhere else.
Show me market of roadkills in USA and places in the country where people are treating them as a normal food.

Also, "people are hungry" is a nonsense deflection. If your "food" potentially can kill yourself and cause an epidemic, you'd probably should think twice before eating it. Also, China does not live in the ****ing middle ages. They are fairly modern country with a big infrastructure.

The only reason those markets exists, because, of "tradition" and apathy or corruption of Chinese government. But, of course, we shouldn't say that, because, precious China feelings gonna be hurt. Or is it feelings of people on Internet? What about people who had died because of their negligence? What about people who will die because of it? Do you even care?

Ok, this is going to be fun.
You love facts. Well, I've got some in one of the previous posts of mine in a form of a report from the respected source about the issue.

This implies that viruses start due to the unsanitary, barbaric behavior of the local people.

Carry this over to swine flu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#History), which started in the American mid west, and IMJ (from the midwest) just called his family filthy savages.

Now, I don't believe that's true. But why IMJ would openly say that is beyond me. Maybe it's because he, like the rest of the brain trust demanding the Chinese take the blame for this, are not the brain trust they want to be.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that it is racist. Demonstrably so. And when you try to disprove that, you end up making ambiguous claims about your family's relationship with pigs.

I'd caution you against that.
Ah yes, blaming well documented unsanitary conditions and apathy of government is racist.

People like you are responsible for Rotterham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal) and other stuff like that. You don't care about human lives. You care only about appearance. As long as nobody says a bad word - everything's fine. People can be raped and die by the thousands, but at least no-one says a bad word and you can pretend to be a good person.
I just wonder, what it's like to live a life full of lie?

Also, your "facts" are trash. You are comparing tiny amount of cases against 200k+ infected throughout the world. And an outbreak, which had happened back in 1918. ****ing 102 years ago!!

I don't think anyone is unfamiliar with the origin of the disease. That's not what's being contested.

What I'm saying is that if I attach a name to something, it acts as an attack on everyone and everything that name is associated with.
You just confirm that you are a racist because, in your mind, putting blame on relatively few people for eating crap and bureaucrats for allowing to do so, somehow transforms into accusation against ALL Chinese.

My point is that this is a racial thing. And no amount of arguing is explaining is going to change that. It's the same as calling AIDS Gay Related Immuno Deficiency. Not really all that helpful to start pointing at homosexuals and saying "look! they're diseased!"
If that's a trolling it is a very bad one.

No, it isn't. I don't live in the United States anymore. I fled during the Obama years and moved abroad. I'm a racial minority here and no one really gives me **** for it.
Ah, why I am not surprised.

The social crime is using an umbrella term to vilify everyone in a region. The joke being that you're not in any way, shape, or form responsible for swine flu anymore than the general population of China. But we're still calling it the "Chinese virus" because. . . what? Are you saying we should force China to change the way they live? Isn't that imposing our will on another person? Are you not against that?
If they "way of life" resulted in 8000(!!!) dead in a matter of few weeks, then yes, **** their way of life. Also, general population of Hubei IS responsible for this.

I wonder, would you be so compassionate, if one of your loved ones died because of this virus? Would you still say "their way of life is precious, we shouldn't impose ourselves on them"?

Would you say that in a face of people who lost their loved ones?

And in general, would you say that to the women who suffered at the hands of religious extremists?

By your logic, people shouldn't oppose Nazis, because, it's just "their way of life".

We've had presidents who were convicted of war crimes. We also have towns with no reliable plumbing.
Towns with no reliable plumbing are not the same as market full of unsanitary **** causing thousands deaths.

Of course I'm the hero! I'm super great!

All joking aside, I do typically stand by my BS. Both in real life and online. I've been pretty gentle with you guys, too. I've reigned it in over the years.

If you want to start a hate club, you wouldn't be the first. :lol:
So much posturing.

No-one buys it.

[TommyT]

I blame only those who were trading and eating ****, as well, as their government for doing nothing about it. It has nothing to do with race.

Show me market of roadkills in USA and places in the country where people are treating them as a normal food.

Also, "people are hungry" is a nonsense deflection. If your "food" potentially can kill yourself and cause an epidemic, you'd probably should think twice before eating it. Also, China does not live in the ****ing middle ages. They are fairly modern country with a big infrastructure.

The only reason those markets exists, because, of "tradition" and apathy or corruption of Chinese government.

No-one buys it.


So you live in Russia, under a dictatorship right? You've acknowledged as much.
In your country, people only know what they are told, but are deeply aware that most of what they are told is a lie. You know this, but you are powerless to change this, right?

I mean, if you could, Putin would have never gained another 12 years. If you could, Chernobyl would have never happened.

That's not an attack, it's just pointing out that what is doesn't match what should be.

Nobody wants to admit that they're FAT. I would argue 80% of the people here, are FAT. Some are not just a little fat, some are morbidly obese.
None of them are eating bats, or more correctly Pangolins that were infected by the virus BY bats, true, but they are killing us in other ways, ways that are less immediate, but just as devastating.

Food is the culprit here, not them, for exactly the same reason. When it's cheaper to grab chips, a burger and soda, and you are living paycheck to paycheck, it's what you do. When the idea of a nutritious meal is tied to the rich, but also the boring; it is what you do.
So now, there is a pandemic that will seriously **** with you if you have an underlying health condition. Re examine what that means. UNDERLYING health condition. So, you were ALREADY sick. Being FAT is being sick. Smoking is making you bloody sick. the lifestyle, which isn't evn a choice for most of you, is making you SICK!!!!!

Okay, you could argue that the poor asshole who ate a Pangolin in China, started this crap, and that is true, those markets are a ****ing disgrace. They are revolting and putrid. I am 100% opposed to that level of cruelty, no question, but that cruelty is not isolated to those markets, and we can't pretend it's just "overthere".

We also can't ignore that the reason it's spreading so fast, has everything to do with education, diet, private healthcare, and religious idiocy.

Hell, the finger pointing and accustations in this thread alone, F*cking hell.

1. You are ALL going to get sick in the next month.
2. What is your plan?

Get ready, get focused.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Nobody wants to admit that they're FAT. I would argue 80% of the people here, are FAT. Some are not just a little fat, some are morbidly obese.
None of them are eating bats, or more correctly Pangolins that were infected by the virus BY bats, true, but they are killing us in other ways, ways that are less immediate, but just as devastating.

You shut your salad-eating mouth, you skinny adipose-lacking b@stard.

[TommyT]

You shut your salad-eating mouth, you skinny adipose-lacking b@stard.

:lol::lol::lol: Who me?

I never said I was skinny! I've got the extra 20 I need to lose too, I did all the stupid ****, yadda yadda.

But I will point out, the reported cases in the states should be similar to Canada, for infection spread.

You're just shy of 10x our population, and we were infected around the same time.

Our population is 37 million. we have 736 cases (ATT)
Your population is 327 million. You have 10,822 cases (ATT) and you are barely testing.

So, somehow you are 15X instead of 10x.
Trudeau only closed our borders Yesterday, and not fully. Trump took steps weeks ago. I haven't even gone into mortality.

For all of you at home keeping score, this is the difference in democratic socialism, and your idea of every man for themselves.

[Andrew NDB]

K55vE4_j41Q

[frank_one]

+427 dead in the last 24 hours in Italy.

[Leo656]

Had a conference call with the boss today. Shutdowns are expected to last at least 8 weeks in NJ. We were instructed to file for unemployment since they can't afford to give us formal "paid leave" (not surprising). Apparently they're basing what you get on what's on your W2 and not what you get paid by the hour, which is actually great news, since I and many others who make most of their money on commission were nervous about that. Granted it's been about or over 10 years since I filed but last time I did they subtracted commissions from your earnings, and apparently now they don't. So that's good news.

Part of me was starting to feel a little bit optimistic as news reports trickled out the last day or so about things in China starting to improve, BUT, as I suspected, other reports conflict that and say it's all a PR smokescreen by the Chinese government - shocker - and that things aren't improving at all. The Chinese citizens who haven't been censored and silenced by the state apparently didn't say if it was getting WORSE, but that most of the government's efforts have been to create an appearance of improvement rather than actually doing anything. Leaving businesses open with the lights on so it looks like people are working, staged photo ops of empty hospital beds, things like that. Why am I not surprised?

We're gonna have to look at Italy and see how things play out there to get any idea whatsoever, because Lord knows we are not gonna ever get a straight and honest answer about anything from goddamn China, nor should we expect to. Their only concern right now is losing their place as the world's largest manufacturer, and will do anything to protect their bottom line. So if you want The Truth, or Hope, look elsewhere. China is nothing but the bratty kid who "Totally did their homework, you guys! Must'a fallen outta their backpack because they totally had it this morning, they swear!" :roll:

I've thrown 2020 in the trash at this point. I don't think it's going to get any better whatsoever anytime soon and am sadly prepared to take this as The New Normal for the time being. I really hope I'm wrong, but things can only get worse by the day for so long before optimism just seems like a fool's errand.

That's the upside of being a pessimist, though; it can be exhausting, but it's literally Win/Win. If you predict the worst and are Right, you get to say "I told you so!" and that's always fun. And if you are Wrong, then things work out the best for everyone and that's awesome. There's pretty much no downside to being a pessimist, whereas an optimist has to deal with the crushing disappointment of daily life not living up to their hopes and dreams and expectations.

So yeah, we'll see. Fingers crossed but it ain't lookin' good.

You have my sympathy. I've dealt with similar stuff for a large part of my life and I've got to the same conclusion.

Of course, some people will cry "b-b-but they just need more compassion and empathy", but I think those people never dealt with several years of abuse at the hands of the same person, despite your desperate pleads for them to stop.

It is easy to pretend that you are nigh-saint and full of compassion and empathy...until some freak turns your life into nightmare for several years in the row.


Condolences and much obliged. Sounds like you get it completely. In my experience, only the names ever change. It's always some idiot who "Just wanted to have a good time or try something new", and then they spiral out of control and ruin countless lives while whining about how they "Didn't expect it to turn out like this! They just need HELP!" Gee, that's funny, I remember explicitly being told in Kindergarten that's exactly what was gonna happen, and "luckily" had several people in my family to serve as the worst possible example, therefore I knew better.

Meanwhile, people who hated their parents for getting drunk and beating them, are now grown-ups who get drunk and beat their kids. "They're just acting out and trying to cope! They don't know any better! Genetic predisposition! Cycles of behavior!" Yeah, yeah. They're assholes. Stupid, selfish, narcissistic assholes.

I'll have a few beers and puff some ganja, but only because it doesn't turn me into a f*cking monster or an idiot. Otherwise, I'm a serious hardliner on that kinda sh*t. You can pretty much trace every tragedy of the human condition back to drugs, and peoples' dependency on them. War, poverty, violence, homelessness... all mostly rooted in drugs in some way. Raze the coca fields in Colombia and roust all the kingpins, set up an actual infrastructure, and watch how fast the quality of life in South America improves overnight. Ain't gonna happen, but that's what it would take for those people to literally get decent living conditions in the year 2020. Makes me sick that so many people down there can't even have flushing toilets because the "Escobars" of the world hold them hostage and make them live in filth. And we look the other way, because "culture". We ought'a be dropping bombs.

Like I always say, there's answers to the world's problems. I got some. But nobody actually listens because they'd cut into their Good Time. If a solution is "too mean", then it's not worth it, so f*ck it, let people suffer. Which tells me that people like complaining more than they like actually doing anything.

[Redeemer]

:lol: Yes, great example I am glad someone knows socialism....
Cuba is a great example of actual socialism. The Cuban government OWNS and OPERATES most industries including the production of goods. No one in this thread is advocating for the US economy to become owned and operated by the federal government. What people are wanting and advocating for is Social progression not Socialism.

Here is a website that defines the difference between the two.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism#examples[QUOTE/]

I'm ignoring facts???? :lol: What about the fact you don't know the difference between "socialism" and "social progressive" :lol: or the fact you keep misusing the term "Projecting" :lol:

[QUOTE=Sumac;1840243]You have my sympathy. I've dealt with similar stuff for a large part of my life and I've got to the same conclusion.

Of course, some people will cry "b-b-but they just need more compassion and empathy", but I think those people never dealt with several years of abuse at the hands of the same person, despite your desperate pleads for them to stop.

It is easy to pretend that you are nigh-saint and full of compassion and empathy...until some freak turns your life into nightmare for several years in the row.


I've got facts for you and your answer is: "you are transferring **** on people". :roll:

I do not blame all people of China, I blame only those who were trading and eating ****, as well, as their government for doing nothing about it. It has nothing to do with race.

If you see here "racism" than it is you who are racist, because, you are automatically assume that culture = race and that all Chinese has the same culture.


If you consider that an insult, I dreading to think how you'll react to REAL insults. Must be some fascinating breakdowns.

Your insults are like a mosquito mildly annoying, but not a threat .:lol: I was called much worse at the academy :lol:

You love facts. Well, I've got some in one of the previous posts of mine in a form of a report from the respected source about the issue.


Ah yes, blaming well documented unsanitary conditions and apathy of government is racist.

People like you are responsible for Rotterham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal) and other stuff like that. You don't care about human lives. You care only about appearance. As long as nobody says a bad word - everything's fine. People can be raped and die by the thousands, but at least no-one says a bad word and you can pretend to be a good person.
I just wonder, what it's like to live a life full of lie?

Also, your "facts" are trash. You are comparing tiny amount of cases against 200k+ infected throughout the world. And an outbreak, which had happened back in 1918. ****ing 102 years ago!!

:lol: you are accusing other people of ignoring facts when you are the one doing it :lol:

Also I never disagreed with you that China is responsible. You snapped at me and made assumptions :ohwell:

[MikeandRaph87]

My school district extended to three weeks from two today and teachers are recalled in department rotation on March 31st to further plan depending on the governor since my state has just hit 100 cases. At least the department of education applied for a standardized test waiver and already waved all days missed from Coronavirus not made up. So I have my graduate work and figure out what movies to watch in the meantime. I should be ecstatic, but I ma frustrated.

[Leo656]

Me too. Very frustrated. It's not like I do much besides work anyway but I like having options.

Can't go to the craft store and buy more paints or fabric or whatever. Need rubber gloves for handling sculpting clay. Can't go to the flea market and get fodder figures for customs. I had MEANT to do all of this, and quite soon, but the option was abruptly jerked out of my hands and it's incredibly frustrating.

I will say that I am doing better than some, I suppose, in that I don't get "bored". I get depressed and sleepy and thus I waste more days than I should due to general malaise, but if anything, I have too many hobbies. Which right now is a good thing. Literally thousands of video games. 20,000 comics or more. About a thousand DVDs and Blu-rays. Piles of notebooks and sketchbooks. Stacks of board games and jigsaw puzzles. Like I say on my Good Days, I have way too much to do to even think about dying, I could live to be 200 and I'd still run out of time before I got to all the stuff I want to do. So I'm not going crazy from a lack of options.

I just don't like feeling helpless, or like I can't just do whatever I feel like. I used to be able to go grab a burger at 2am if I was inclined, now I can't. You don't realize how important those little things are until they're ripped out of your hands. And when do we get to go back to normal? Nobody knows, other than every single day, it's supposedly further and further off. The more we learn, the farther we get from "better", rather than closer. It just keeps getting worse with no end in sight. We can only "meme" this off for so long before people collectively start to snap.

Very frustrating.
-----------

Side note: I've been meaning to re-watch this for a while, but has anyone ever seen this movie? I've been thinking about it a lot lately. It's free on YouTube. Here.
jGsKQfGhi8A

It was produced by the guys from the band Angels & Airwaves (you'd know Tom DeLonge from Blink 182). Short explanation, an astronaut goes up to work on the space station, and while he's up there the whole world comes to an end and he's trapped up there forever, with no way of getting home and no "home" to go back to, although he doesn't really know that until way later on. So the movie is about his struggle to cope and survive, and maintain some semblance of hope in the face of extreme and utter hopelessness, and the absence of the very basic human connections that we all inherently need in order to stay sane.

It's very low-budget and "artsy" in spots, but it's really powerful stuff. It's actually pretty uplifting altogether. I highly recommend it.

"There's no Seasons.... just Time."

[lonewarrior20]

well nows a good time to catch up on all those rpgs you've never finished on old consoles. I just hope I don't lose power or i'll be saying "no, it's not fair! I had time!"

[Leo656]

well nows a good time to catch up on all those rpgs you've never finished on old consoles. I just hope I don't lose power or i'll be saying "no, it's not fair! I had time!"

Haha, Right? I own like, almost every single non-MMO Final Fantasy game, and I've played and finished, like, three of 'em. :lol: Along with Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, etc. etc. I mean I've beaten a bunch of 'em but I always kick myself for not having played more.

I honestly haven't played much besides Smash Bros. Wii U the last week, though. Both because I really enjoy it, but also, I'm in a funk and can't really mentally commit to a "big" game until I calm down a little bit.

Wouldn't be a bad time to run through Knights of the Old Republic for the ???th time, though, either. :lol: That's another problem I have, that game is like the RPG version of crack, to me. "I'm not gonna get hooked on it again, I swear... okay, I'll beat it again this ONE time, but after that I gotta play something else..." I have never smoked crack and never will, but I understand it when people tell me, "You do it once and you spend the rest of your life wishing you were doing it, every minute of every day, forever." Because that's what KOTOR is like for me. :lol: Not my favorite game of all time and maybe not even my favorite RPG, but man, I cannot recall a single moment of playing that game that wasn't pure joy, every time. It calls to me like that stupid crystal calls to Superman in those Chris Reeve movies.

I did get some Final Fantasy games for Christmas that I really ought'a play first, though. Only right, I guess. But man, if ALL that I had was KOTOR, at least as far as RPGs, if I only owned that one and no others... I'd be alright, I think.

[sdp]

Economically we're going to be worse off than in 2008, it'll be a bigger recession. covid19 only worsened what was going to happen, the market had been in a bull run since the 2016 elections without any long term economical policies to back it up so it was going to come to a halt, add a few world events that cause chaos in the market and top it off with a pandemic that is paralyzing the world and it's what you get. Let's hope for the best.

I find it odd how people are still downplaying the pandemic, why would countries worldwide, rich and poor cripple their economies taking drastic measures to resist this virus if it's not that bad. I also don't think it's the end of the world, but it's not going to be a fun time and not a situation to ignore.

[Voltron]

I find it odd how people are still downplaying the pandemic, why would countries worldwide, rich and poor cripple their economies taking drastic measures to resist this virus if it's not that bad. I also don't think it's the end of the world, but it's not going to be a fun time and not a situation to ignore.

It looks like there was deliberate spread of misinformation by the US government in order to save certain congressional figures a bad day in the stock market.

At least four senators, including notable piece of crap Dianne Feinstein of California have been accused of withholding information on the severity of coronavirus in order to avoid stock market losses.

If anyone is interested. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/aoc-calls-senate-intel-chair-richard-burr-resign-stock-selloff-n1164401)

[IndigoErth]

:tconfuse: It's funny (but not the 'haha' kind) when you think about it. Maybe the motives were different, but looks like our own isn't any better than the Chinese government in trying to suppress information about it. :tmad:

[The Deadman]

New York is now under 100% shutdown.

[IndigoErth]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/03/20/trump-message-to-americans-coronavirus-presser-vpx.cnn

What the hell. So the guy asks a completely valid, simple question, opening the floor for Trump to say a few positive words of hope...and he responds like THAT?? The heck? :tconfuse: Yeah, I'm pretty sure being asked what he'd say to scared Americans is NOT a "nasty question" or bad reporting, not by a long shot. The kind of thing some Americans need to hear, but hey, never mind, just go on the attack instead... seems reasonable.

[Andrew NDB]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/03/20/trump-message-to-americans-coronavirus-presser-vpx.cnn

What the hell. So the guy asks a completely valid, simple question, opening the floor for Trump to say a few positive words of hope...and he responds like THAT?? The heck? :tconfuse: Yeah, I'm pretty sure being asked what he'd say to scared Americans is NOT a "nasty question" or bad reporting, not by a long shot.

I didn't click on it, but does it amount to Trump saying mean things again? To reporters?

It amazes me that this is able to still amaze anyone.

[IndigoErth]

No, it amounts to exactly what I said.

Reporter plainly asks what he'd say to scared Americans. Trump immediately lashes out calling it a "nasty question" and bad reporting. And this guy isn't a mental case?

edit: And it amazes me that some people still pretend that kind of crap is no problem.

[Andrew NDB]

Do we know that that reporter isn't someone that Trump would know that has a history of doing hitjobs on him? And was that the only thing he asked Trump or was there more to it?

[Sumac]

"Eagerly" awaiting for a quarantine here.
About 200+ people in my office are now working from home. Sadly, since I am working in delivery, I most likely will stay on duty until subway or the whole city will be closed down.

Nobody wants to admit that they're FAT. I would argue 80% of the people here, are FAT. Some are not just a little fat, some are morbidly obese.
None of them are eating bats, or more correctly Pangolins that were infected by the virus BY bats, true, but they are killing us in other ways, ways that are less immediate, but just as devastating.
I am not sure what politics of my country has to do with this.
I am not even sure what the **** does it supposed to mean.

Food is the culprit here, not them, for exactly the same reason. When it's cheaper to grab chips, a burger and soda, and you are living paycheck to paycheck, it's what you do. When the idea of a nutritious meal is tied to the rich, but also the boring; it is what you do.
So now, there is a pandemic that will seriously **** with you if you have an underlying health condition. Re examine what that means. UNDERLYING health condition. So, you were ALREADY sick. Being FAT is being sick. Smoking is making you bloody sick. the lifestyle, which isn't evn a choice for most of you, is making you SICK!!!!!
People who ate dangerous food are culprits. Especially since it not the first epidemy which came from China, because, of the same reason.

Okay, you could argue that the poor asshole who ate a Pangolin in China, started this crap, and that is true, those markets are a ****ing disgrace. They are revolting and putrid. I am 100% opposed to that level of cruelty, no question, but that cruelty is not isolated to those markets, and we can't pretend it's just "overthere".
Because, somewhere besides China there are markets which sell dangerous food it doesn't mean that those Chinese markets shouldn't be harshly judged or closed.

Hell, the finger pointing and accustations in this thread alone, F*cking hell.
We are discussing everything surrounding the virus, including its origins. I don't see what exactly shutting down this discussion will accomplish. Will it make sick people feel better? Will it stop spread of virus?

Condolences and much obliged. Sounds like you get it completely. In my experience, only the names ever change. It's always some idiot who "Just wanted to have a good time or try something new", and then they spiral out of control and ruin countless lives while whining about how they "Didn't expect it to turn out like this! They just need HELP!" Gee, that's funny, I remember explicitly being told in Kindergarten that's exactly what was gonna happen, and "luckily" had several people in my family to serve as the worst possible example, therefore I knew better.
Gladly all my relatives are understanding, because, they suffered at the hands of this guy too. And most of people I dealing with don't give a damn, so it's all fine.

:lol: you are accusing other people of ignoring facts when you are the one doing it :lol:

Also I never disagreed with you that China is responsible. You snapped at me and made assumptions :ohwell:
What facts am I ignoring?
Also, if you approach people with holier-than-thou attitude, expect people snapping back.

[frank_one]

+627 dead in the last 24 hours in Italy.

[TommyT]

+627 dead in the last 24 hours in Italy.

Man, it's JUST A FLU!!!! Total democratic conspiracy.
:lol::lol::lol:

Waiting for the first Dromer to get sick. Really curious who it's going to be.
Could be me, could be you.

The clock is ticking.

[IndigoErth]

Do we know that that reporter isn't someone that Trump would know that has a history of doing hitjobs on him? And was that the only thing he asked Trump or was there more to it?
No idea if they had any other interaction, but that still shouldn't stop Trump from sanely answering that one question even if he declines to answer others from the same guy... Could have answered it for the people of this country, not the journalist.


+627 dead in the last 24 hours in Italy.
Geeze, that's sad. :( And for a small country?

[newfan]

+627 dead in the last 24 hours in Italy.

Damn :( awful, that's about 4k in your country now.

[TommyT]

Here's a ray of hope.

How your fat might allow you to survive.
gR-8eixMxYo

[MsMarvelDuckie]

"Eagerly" awaiting for a quarantine here.
About 200+ people in my office are now working from home. Sadly, since I am working in delivery, I most likely will stay on duty until subway or the whole city will be closed down.

I am not sure what politics of my country has to do with this.
I am not even sure what the **** does it supposed to mean.

People who ate dangerous food are culprits. Especially since it not the first epidemy which came from China, because, of the same reason.

Because, somewhere besides China there are markets which sell dangerous food it doesn't mean that those Chinese markets shouldn't be harshly judged or closed.

We are discussing everything surrounding the virus, including its origins. I don't see what exactly shutting down this discussion will accomplish. Will it make sick people feel better? Will it stop spread of virus?

Gladly all my relatives are understanding, because, they suffered at the hands of this guy too. And most of people I dealing with don't give a damn, so it's all fine.

What facts am I ignoring?
Also, if you approach people with holier-than-thou attitude, expect people snapping back.


News flash, this virus originated in animals, but MUTATED to infect humans, then mutated AGAIN to spread person to person within WEEKS. It's not just because someone ate "dangerous foods", it literally changed from an animal virus to a HUMAN one, one we have NO IMMUNITY to, and which further changed to damage the lungs. (Because it's RNA was not coded for in humans, since it was not previously a human-host virus.) And it's genetic shift happened at an alarming rate, and will do so again. Stop blaming the people whose diets included the animals what it originated from and try to actually develop an understanding of what this thing IS.

I keep seeing blame getting thrown at China, but the truth is it could just as easily have started ANYWHERE that such a virus might be found. From animals in farms or from wildlife in meat markets the world over. (Swine flu, anyone? Voltron was not wrong about that- likewise bird flu. Both hosts are used as food in much of the world.) All this finger-pointing at the country of origin is idiotic and bigoted. This is a genetic bomb that was just WAITING to go off, and it's mutation rate is the equivalent of an H bomb.

Also, people who constantly post with insulting, arrogant, condescending attitudes should not criticize others for being "holier than thou". It's incredibly hypocritical. Nor does it add anything of value to the discussion.

[Leo656]

"Could've started anywhere."

Maybe. But it didn't.

Just saying. "Could'a/would'a/should'a" doesn't hold much water right now.

[frank_one]

Jim is dead. John killed him. Yes, but the killer could've been anyone! Yeah, but it was John. End of the story.
Stay safe, folks. Stay at home.

[Redeemer]

Did you read this?

1. The fatality rate was initially reported at 3%-4%.

2. The rate dropped outside of Hubei because of increased understanding of the virus and lower population leading to better preventative measures. It fell not because of an initial miscalculation, but because of later efforts to force it down.

So what does this mean? It means China acted, and it acted pretty harshly. It enacted the largest quarantine in recorded history.

Other countries caught up very quickly and started to pitch in with the effort. Germany provided tests to other countries. Schools shut down. Hygienic prevention rose.

Perhaps most importantly: people knew that healthcare was accessible.

Contrast this with the US, where we not only pay more than any other country in the world, but we receive less (https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2019/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries). This is after the God King promised to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something much better (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1388/repeal-obamacare/).

Add on top of this that Trump fired the pandemic response team (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/), leaving us with our pants down.

In lieu of this, he put Mike Pence in charge of the response effort. This is the same Mike Pence who oversaw a disastrous HIV outbreak (https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/pence-moved-slowly-in-combating-hiv-outbreak/) in his home state. HIV transmission, mind you, is very well understood and manageable with minimal effort. Pence botched it, and now he's heading up the national effort to a fast spreading virus we don't know the specifics of.

So your boy is letting us all down, Andrew. Again. Hell, he may even have it. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/congress-closes-u-s-capitol-to-the-general-public-11584026289)

Dumb ass can't even keep himself safe. And you think we should be listening to this guy?

There's a plague running unchecked through the country, and the man at the helm stared directly into a solar eclipse.

Yeah, panic doesn't seem like an unreasonable response from the masses.

But don't let that stop you from going to a Trump rally and demanding more winning. I mean, Puerto Rico's destroyed. We have no replacement for Obamacare. The stock market's in free fall. Most government positions aren't staffed. There's no Space Force. We've locked down our borders with a handful of countries that can still fly here through other non-banned countries. The President does a poor job of hiding the fact he wants to bone his own daughter. . . I could go on, really, but I'm starting to gag thinking about it.

I think Voltron went completely insane from stress.
Maybe he needs some vacation? How about a ticket to North Korea or Hubei?



What facts am I ignoring?
Also, if you approach people with holier-than-thou attitude, expect people snapping back.

You literally brushed off Voltron's facts and resorted to insults.... :lol:

Also I am no better than anyone else, but there is one thing I cannot stand and won't tolerate is insulting others during a discussion or argument. There is absolutely no reason for it and is usually done when someone cannot support their argument or just chooses to act childish.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

"Could've started anywhere."

Maybe. But it didn't.

Just saying. "Could'a/would'a/should'a" doesn't hold much water right now.


My point there was that this virus is similar to others like H1N1, SARS, etc, which literally can be found almost anywhere. But Trump himself has started calling it the "Chinese virus", just because they unwittingly won the viral lottery.

Food for thought- (pun intended), the bats that were the supposed (according to some sources) source of this were used as test subjects by scientists and later died, then got sold into markets for profit(allegedly). So this was apparently a human-caused issue to begin with. Humans mucking with things they have no business messing with, using wildlife that would normally be isolated and rarely encountered. Not because people were eating strange foods (when you're dirt poor and there are few places to buy or grow your own, you make do with what you can get) but because those particular animals came from a questionable HUMAN source!

[Andrew NDB]

just because they unwittingly won the viral lottery.

Can you really say "unwittingly" of the Chinese government when #1, they continued to allow the trapping/sale/eating of wild animals beforehand, and #2, this was after the outbreak/emergence of similar viruses already resulted from said activities?

This is a government that stepped in once and was able to enforce a "1 child per household" edict, country-wide and for years. I'm pretty sure they could (largely) get their people to stop eating bats.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Chinese medicine and traditions are really a whole other issue, honestly. MOST wild animals in traditional Chinese holistic medicine are killed for their presumed medicinal value, such as treating ED, blood pressure, and the like. While they do also view many animals as edible that we would not normally think of as such, they are usually fish, fowl, or predatory mammals like tigers, etc. Cats, dogs, and yes, primates, too. And the government there probably COULD tell them to stop such practices, but won't. They are deeply tradition-oriented as a people, even those who are ostensibly more modern and "enlightened" as we think of it, so they simply don't care to stop it. Besides, a lot of it is illegally caught and sold by poachers, often with the government's turning a blind eye due to corruption and even direct involvement. They just don't care.

As Voltron already pointed out- and I mentioned as well- Swine flu came from a very similar virus, and THAT one started in the US from *gasp* pigs! And by "unwittingly", I meant the PEOPLE, not the government. Further, it's not so much the KINDS of animals being sold (though species we rarely come in contact with may be more likely to host new strains of viruses) as it is the way those animals are caged and kept. Packed into tiny containers stacked on top of each other, and crowded into small spaces where one animal can transfer pathogens to many others. But the REAL problems start when those pathogens mutate to transfer to humans. That is what this one did. We are used to our own strains of flu and others whose RNA matches our own coding, so we have resistance to them. But this one does not. Thus it is highly dangerous because we have NO coding for it to develop immunity. And that's the problem. It is NEW. And what is scarier is that it did in weeks what usually takes months or years. So, yeah, it's irrelevant WHERE the disease originated, what IS important is its rapid genetic shift.

[Voltron]

Spanish flu also originated in Kansas, apparently.

Also, calling it the Chinese flu because Chinese people eat bats is like calling this the Conservative Pandemic because right wing policies left us unprepared.

There are also people on this board who may be of Chinese descent, and calling them savages isn't appropriate in the least, given the increase in hate crimes against them.

It's a racist play, pure and simple.

Can you really say "unwittingly" of the Chinese government when #1, they continued to allow the trapping/sale/eating of wild animals beforehand, and #2, this was after the outbreak/emergence of similar viruses already resulted from said activities?

This is a government that stepped in once and was able to enforce a "1 child per household" edict, country-wide and for years. I'm pretty sure they could (largely) get their people to stop eating bats.

You'd think, but it's not that simple. As you've pointed out, a mandatory, statewide quarantine is unenforceable. So is banning sex among millions of people.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/one-child-policy

Turns out, the rural areas (where the bat eating "savagery" occurs) is a lot harder to police. In addition, I'm point out that rural areas in the United States often have peculiar diets in comparison to suburban and urban areas.

1. Rocky Mountain oysters. (bull testicles)

2. Burgoo (some recipes call for road kill)

3. Fried rattlesnake (obvious)

4. Chitterlings (pig intestines)

5. Frog legs


And this isn't to mention that other cultures view eating pork as savage. So coming down on people for dietary differences is a dangerous argument, as we're often guilty of the same oddities.

In addition, eating anything can cause the transference of some lethal disease. Mad cow disease came about because we decided to feed cow meat to cows in order to cut down on costs.

If you want real terror, take a look into that. The resulting prions are completely incurable and 100% fatal. Add to this that they might be inside all of us right now waiting to activate because we're not certain how pervasive the practice of bovine cannibalism was, and you're in for a poor night of sleep.

Using the logic:

Premise: People's behavior is primarily responsible for the rise of disease.

Premise: People caused the spread of prions due to capitalist behavior.

Conclusion: Capitalism causes disease.

I'm sure you understand this isn't true. But using that same logic, you've arrived at laying the blame at the feet of people living in the Chinese countryside.

And what do you get out of it? What do you win? People aren't going to stop doing it. Making fun of them isn't going to embarrass them into not eating bats or lizards or spiders or whatever the hell else they're eating.

It does cause people of Asian descent to face increase discrimination. These are American citizens that are being put in very real danger because some of us need to really drive a point home.

And it doesn't hurt anyone to stop saying the "Chinese Virus". But it does hurt people to keep doing it.

If you need a demonstration of how needless and pointless it is to throw the blame at people, I could change the name of this thread to the "Conservative Pandemic" and see how certain people respond to that. It wouldn't go well, I'm sure, as people would right point out that while connections can be made, the act of holding conservative viewpoints don't make someone complicit with the actions of people who give that particular label a bad name.

I'm not saying you're wrong to be frustrated. I'm saying that there are more constructive ways to take out that frustration.

[Andrew NDB]

Turns out, the rural areas (where the bat eating "savagery" occurs) is a lot harder to police. In addition, I'm point out that rural areas in the United States often have peculiar diets in comparison to suburban and urban areas.

But, and I haven't Googled this much so I could be way off base, the understanding I have is that China has wrestled with whether they do or don't police the eating of wild animals such as bats. At the present, it is allowed and was allowed to happen, is my basic understanding. No? Was it truly people going rogue eating bats, against the law? And even if so, wouldn't regular patrols of known areas of said wild animal eateries have curtailed this?

And it doesn't hurt anyone to stop saying the "Chinese Virus". But it does hurt people to keep doing it.

No, it doesn't hurt anyone to stop saying that. But does it really help anything to not? Because it's not an incorrect phrase. It's not a "helpful" phrase, but it's not invalid. It does illustrate in three words that this was a thing that came into our country by another country's non-unwitting negligence... perhaps angrily. But we're all angry right now. But it does underscore the fact, and it's demonstrably true.

The separate argument is, "Should the president really use those mean words?" Personally, no. He shouldn't. It's mean and obviously used for a certain reaction, that he's getting. Though the reactions from everyone on the left don't make me laugh, they just make me kind of sigh and go, "Ugh. They took the bait." Which is a sad thing to do in this day and time. I mean, I'm allowed to chuckle... I'll likely lose my job next week. But it's still funny.

At the end of the day we're all hurting together. And that's what kind of makes this all somewhat bearable. It'll get better.

[Voltron]

But, and I haven't Googled this much so I could be way off base, the understanding I have is that China has wrestled with whether they do or don't police the eating of wild animals such as bats. At the present, it is allowed and was allowed to happen, is my basic understanding. No? Was it truly people going rogue eating bats, against the law? And even if so, wouldn't regular patrols of known areas of said wild animal eateries have curtailed this?

I wouldn't even know where to start looking for that information. Suffice to say, China is one of the largest countries by landmass in the world. Policing the entirety of it is impossible. Not to mention that people from Beijing or Shanghai, who may be less inclined to partake in and more willing to police the eating of wild game probably aren't eager to move out to the middle of nowhere to stop it.

EDIT: Ok, I did some looking. There's a lot of weird (likely biased) info out there, and nothing is conclusive.

USA Today says maybe, but it's unlikely that bats were the culprit. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/03/18/coronavirus-fact-check-covid-19-caused-eating-animals/5073094002/)

Scientific American posits that it could have come from our proximity to pigs. (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/)

This website, Foreign Policy, I've never heard of and has an ad for China right there on the page. They say that the initial infected had no contact with the wet market sited as the origin source. (https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/27/coronavirus-covid19-dont-blame-bat-soup-for-the-virus/)

In the end, we don't know. Bats are a likely culprit, but the consumption of them isn't 100% the cause. Jury is still out.


No, it doesn't hurt anyone to stop saying that. But does it really help anything to not? Because it's not an incorrect phrase. It's not a "helpful" phrase, but it's not invalid. It does illustrate in three words that this was a thing that came into our country by another country's non-unwitting negligence... perhaps angrily. But we're all angry right now. But it does underscore the fact, and it's demonstrably true.

I'm wary of giving anyone a cause to label an entire group of people. It never leads to a good place. The Chinese virus came from Chinese people eating bats. Mass shootings came from gun owners who are crazy.

Same sentiment. Is it true? Well, kind of. Sure. But you'd be quick to bemoan the political downsides of vilifying every gun owner for the actions of a few. Why insist upon doing it ever, then? How often does it actually pan out that EVERYONE in a subgroup is guilty of the same thing?

The separate argument is, "Should the president really use those mean words?" Personally, no. He shouldn't. It's mean and obviously used for a certain reaction, that he's getting. Though the reactions from everyone on the left don't make me laugh, they just make me kind of sigh and go, "Ugh. They took the bait." Which is a sad thing to do in this day and time. I mean, I'm allowed to chuckle... I'll likely lose my job next week. But it's still funny.

I'm sorry to hear that man. Not to proselytize, but this is why I argue for social programs. I know people view it as "fwee eweyfing" but it's not. It's for situations like this where people are unable to work and NEED social infrastructure in place to continue living.

Not welfare queens. Not moochers. People who fall upon hard times despite a healthy work ethic.

At the end of the day we're all hurting together. And that's what kind of makes this all somewhat bearable. It'll get better.

It's cool. I'm willing and happy to suffer with you. But this looks kind of grim.

I got a buddy who went to school for journalism and landed a job reporting on medical conferences. He's been talking to some people in the field. This may last for some time. . .

Apparently, the severity of coronavirus has forced our hand. Clinical vaccine trials have started on human subjects. That's insanely fast for science. Seems the labs may have even skipped animal testing.

Unfortunately, for as fast as that's happened, the monitoring can't be rushed. Word is we need a solid year or so until this vaccine gets the all clear for widespread use.

Meanwhile, this social distancing is all we have. And it may continue until we get a decent vaccine in play.

[Voltron]

My grandfather in law was just placed in ICU. Pneumonia. He's unconscious and probably won't survive the night.

I say this for 3 reasons:

1. The danger is real.

2. Take care of yourself.

3. This doesn't change my argument in the slightest.

Also, SOMEONE needs a time out. :lol:

[Candy Kappa]

WHO made rules back in 2015 about giving diseases names that can stigmatize or insult people, places or animals.

[IndigoErth]

Also, it's not like bats (or pangolins as also, if nor more-so, suspected) are the only creatures that are capable of passing viruses to humans. We live in a world full of other species that very well could. Imagine how people here in the U.S. would completely lose their crap if told the government wanted to completely end people's ability to hunt and the world points a finger at American hunters who went and picked up a virus that was transmitted by, say, deer. The outrage that would occur... Screams about a way of life...

And what's to stop a virus from mutating and passing across domestic animals and then even onto us if it played its cards right? Some cultures don't see dogs as animals that should be kept in the home, so imagine being demonized for starting some dog to human virus pandemic and being told we should stop keeping house pets.

I mean, to most of us bats seem weird and gross to want to eat, but there is hardly anything special about them vs any other creature on this planet that a virus could manage to pass from them to us. Esp when you have animals like pigs that are supposedly by far more susceptible to picking up viruses and then giving them to us.



My grandfather in law was just placed in ICU. Pneumonia. He's unconscious and probably won't survive the night.
:( Sorry to hear that.

[Papenbrook]

I'm sorry about your grandfather, Voltron.

[Autbot_Benz]

Would be nice if we had an actual functioning President handling this crisis. But no we get stuck with the orange idiot and his cronies :roll:.

[Jester]

Closed until we can all behave ourselves.