Corona Virus/Dow Jones taking a hit/possible recession

[Andrew NDB]

So there's a lot coming out now about the Dow Jones taking a bit hit as a result of the Corona Virus and all, and how this may be Trump's Hurricane Katrina and such.

https://www.investors.com/market-trend/stock-market-today/dow-jones-futures-coronavirus-stock-market-correction-tesla-apple-beyond-meat/

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/coronavirus-donald-trumps-very-own-hurricane-katrina-moment-126862

Will quote a post I've seen elsewhere:

The biggest economic problem with Coronavirus is China's quarantines. 50M people are confined to their homes in and around Wuhan, a further 500M cannot travel outside their town/city. All manufacturers were ordered to cease work, bringing exports from China to a standstill. The quarantines are costing China billions of dollars a day and if we believe their stats they have been only mildly successful at containing the spread of Coronavirus "inside China."

China is giving every Hong Kong citizen $10,000USD to try and quell unrest and help mitigate the fiscal hit citizens are about to take.

Canada "will not quarantine" per the Canadian Government. This is because A) Legally quarantines violate our Charter Rights B) With a 27 day incubation period quarantines are in-effective and C) The economy cannot be allowed to collapse so that Food, Water & Medicine must continue to flow unebated or more people will die.

Markets wouldn't be hit nearly this hard if China didn't quarantine.
While quarantines are effective with certain pathogens that have short incubation periods, China made a catastrophic mistake quarantining over Coronavirus.

Iran is completely over run, the Deputy Health Minister is ill, the Vice President is ill. Iran borders China, Afghanistan and Pakistan. China cannot stop Coronavirus, they can't even slow it.

Now to do something unthinkable in November. Trump's trade war with China forced a lot of American companies to stockpile made in China goods. The trade war also caused a lot of companies manufacturing in China to relocate manufacturing plants to India, Malaysia.

Trump's trade war likely lessened the blow the US is feeling right now from China's economic hardships.

What's your take? Personally, I think it's a crazy situation that would effect any President in exactly the same manner. I also don't think it's terribly more fatal than the regular bout of flu. A bit, maybe, but it seems like the media is exacerbating things in the ole spinjob to try and create a panic and nosedive the economy to do what Russia and impeachment did not, if you catch my drift.

[newfan]

I haven't sat and worked out the percentage for chance of death going on the number of cases vs deaths but for this to happen it has got to worse than your average flu death rate.

[Andrew NDB]

I haven't sat and worked out the percentage for chance of death going on the number of cases vs deaths but for this to happen it has got to worse than your average flu death rate.

It is a bit, though I'm only really seeing blanket numbers thrown about. Not about things like, "of the deaths... how many were elderly, or already immuno-compromised," etc..

Things like this, especially now, make my Spidey sense tingle. Kind of like the faked up "statistics" about second hand smoking deaths (https://slate.com/technology/2017/02/secondhand-smoke-isnt-as-bad-as-we-thought.html) numbering in the millions every year suddenly being thrown about when there was a sudden push for a certain agenda (that got what it wanted, by the way)... yet no one has actually met anyone that's died of second hand smoke that I've ever known.

And then articles like this come out...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/26/coronavirus-makes-case-medicare-for-all/?fbclid=IwAR1t-VSyL9zHnbf_wi_SptiZvui3rhyHE-y6MNl-smXYX1FRgLmG77hq7Xk

[IMJ]

I haven't sat and worked out the percentage for chance of death going on the number of cases vs deaths but for this to happen it has got to worse than your average flu death rate.

Oh no, this is not the case at all. You don't need a high death toll for markets to respond negatively in an outbreak situation. Before I explain this, the proof is already there - the market drops have been staggering already.

Consider this - the markets respond to productivity declines. When people are sick, there are fewer people out producing all of the stuff that makes markets move. And this includes physical and intellectual property. You don't need a death toll to a market recession to happen. All you need is something that significantly interrupts productivity.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh no, this is not the case at all. You don't need a high death toll for markets to respond negatively in an outbreak situation.

Right, but the average 70 year-old investor turning on CNN and seeing, "TOTAL CRISIS! Coronavirus coming to your front door probably tomorrow! Riots expected next week!" is probably going to start selling their stocks, or at least seriously considering doing so.

[IMJ]

Right, but the average 70 year-old investor turning on CNN and seeing, "TOTAL CRISIS! Coronavirus coming to your front door probably tomorrow! Riots expected next week!" is probably going to start selling their stocks, or at least seriously considering doing so.

Well yeah I mean that goes hand-in-hand with exactly what I was describing above. I don't understand the "but" part of your example.... That would happen with or without excessive deaths from Coronavirus. It is happening. I don't even want to talk about my last 3 day losses.

[oldmanwinters]

There's an old saying that an opportunist thinks: "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

[IMJ]

There's an old saying that an opportunist thinks: "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

Smart investors will buy when they consider a downturn to be at it's lowest. But I will say that many people have money locked up in 401ks and only in magnitudes of 10's of thousands.

I think it takes a different kind of inner peace during a period of significant loss. To turn around and enforce a buying behavior for people who just lost 40k from 600k especially if they are in a "drawing funds from it" situation, as opposed to something like a 5k loss out of 30k especially if they are in a "I'm in the middle of investing for retirement" situation.

Basically there's economic science versus personal psychology and the personal psychology is strong, man. It's all on the same spectrum as the "buying action figures as a function of addiction without recognizing it's addiction" thing I come back to now and again. Fighting impulse is hard for people, especially when many don't recognize that something is an impulse to begin with.

[Sumac]

I think, the major problem here is not a virus itself, but a hysteria surrounding it.

[IMJ]

I think, the major problem here is not a virus itself, but a hysteria surrounding it.

This particular situation it's a little bit of both. This is a more unique situation than most hysteria sell-offs. So let's start by putting the "hysteria" part on lockdown - we agree, we know it's there. the end. Enough said.

There are real time issues right now. China was the epicenter of this. China's productivity has been very diminished by what's going on over there. Many goods and saleable items come from China. And so that impacts markets here not out of hysteria, but out of honest shoring up of resources because there will be, or already is a resource depletion on things that come from China. That's a real time issue.

There are predictive issues right now. Goods and services require mass transportation. The Chicago area is a hinterland for the entire country for example. If people in Chicago get sick then they can't work. They can't forward freight, demurrage piles up, the truck drivers can't transport freight throughout the country. And so that impacts markets not out of hysteria, but out of honest shoring up of resources because if people get sick, then things won't get around throughout the country. That's a valid thing to project as an upcoming issue.

I could go on with more examples. But combine them with the hysteria thing. The hysteria is a function of selloffs to cultivate resources. The hysteria is another factor on top of what happens to a market in a pandemic as I see it, at least. But there are legit concerns outside of hysteria.

[IndigoErth]

It'll pass eventually. I'm not sure the point of even claiming that China's quarantines were a mistake. I mean, what option is there that actually gets an entirely different end result? Either you lose production and affect the stock market because you quarantined people, OR you lose production and affect the stock market because you didn't and it spread a lot more like wildfire, everyone got ill and couldn't work, and in some cases died and will never return to work.

At least if quarantines can help slow it down and eventually contain it the production and stock market will still eventually recover and hopefully sooner than if they had not tried to act.


If this continues on through spring, this probably does have the potential of affecting Trump, yes. Esp if his claim of it magically disappearing in April doesn't come true. (Which is hogwash anyhow and he seems to be the only one who thinks viruses actually just cease to exist.) It's that kind of totally unnecessary stuff that he may stupidly set himself up for taking some heat for it later.

The main thing I'm annoyed at him about where this is concerned is how he shoved Pence to the forefront for this. When do we hardly EVER hear about Pence? Maybe he's doing things that don't get much attention, but by and large it's like the man largely exists in the background where he won't steal any of the spotlight. And NOW when the country needs Trump himself to step up and be a leader who can talk to the people and keep things calm and under control over something that's worrying the entire world (no matter if the extent of worry is unfounded or not)...he chooses to hide behind Pence? It's just a little too obvious that on the (hopefully slim) chance this whole thing turns to hell and does become very bad here, it will be very convenient for Trump to point at Pence and throw him under the bus as the one who was put in charge and failed.

[Andrew NDB]

And NOW when the country needs Trump himself to step up and be a leader who can talk to the people and keep things calm and under control over something that's worrying the entire world

Eh, I don't think anyone on either side of the aisle is looking to Trump for soothing words of comfort in this or really any other matter. He's not that guy. Let Pence try and be that guy.

[IMJ]

Eh, I don't think anyone on either side of the aisle is looking to Trump for soothing words of comfort in this or really any other matter. He's not that guy. Let Pence try and be that guy.

Yeah, but not only that - I can't help but view a criticism that Trump is hiding behind Pence on this as nothing more than more sour grapes mud flinging.

The main thing I'm annoyed at him about where this is concerned is how he shoved Pence to the forefront for this. When do we hardly EVER hear about Pence? Maybe he's doing things that don't get much attention, but by and large it's like the man largely exists in the background where he won't steal any of the spotlight. And NOW when the country needs Trump himself to step up and be a leader who can talk to the people and keep things calm and under control over something that's worrying the entire world (no matter if the extent of worry is unfounded or not)...he chooses to hide behind Pence? It's just a little too obvious that on the (hopefully slim) chance this whole thing turns to hell and does become very bad here, it will be very convenient for Trump to point at Pence and throw him under the bus as the one who was put in charge and failed.

Oh cmon man, seriously? That's your interpretation of this? The guy is using his personnel (read: personnel not personal) resources and allocating them as contact points. That's called mobilizing. To say anything about it is completely outlandish and to criticize it as a self-centered move is the same opportunism and reality twisting that we've seen from the extreme left now at every turn. Seriously, I wanted to address your interesting talking point about "blowing over" and China, but then you wrote this nonsense.

[turtle1237]

Not sure about it being "Trump"'s Hurricane Katrina? Outside of the stock market, we got a good hold on it compare to other countries. Only 60 cases so far and zero deaths. That's way better than say the likes of Japan/China or Italy. Over all we are in better shape than other nations, so don't believe the Dems argument of Trump poorly handing the crisis.

[IMJ]

Not sure about it being "Trump"'s Hurricane Katrina? Outside of the stock market, we got a good hold on it compare to other countries. Only 60 cases so far and zero deaths. That's way better than say the likes of Japan/China or Italy. Over all we are in better shape than other nations, so don't believe the Dems argument of Trump poorly handing the crisis.

Exactly. And we are talking about a virus here - it could and probably will get worse. But opportunists will seize any element they can to criticize this. If you ask me all of this behavior is public domain evidence of what people do in any situation where they just don't like someone for any give reason. In office spaces, on teams, any social environment that can be adapted into a personal sabotage environment.

It's disgusting and I hope the people who employ attack via twisted truth or by inescapable conversation piece rather than by reality find themselves victim to it. By the time the dust clears people who want to be opportunistic will never acknowledge what could have happened as opposed to whatever did. It's the negative information thing I went on about in another thread. A criticism of opportunity will use only the clear information regarding however many people succumb to the virus as opposed to what didn't happen because of our checks and balances. That's all you'll hear about from these people once the dust settles. And it is going to get worse.

[sdp]

While the market seems to be reacting to corona virus, which is partly true, this is mostly what we call a correction in finance. The stock market had been on a bull run since Trump got elected without much backing up the price, this happens from time to time and stocks fall and are "corrected" to what their real price should be. Convid19 is indeed responsible since markets are uncertain about what's going to happen and many companies rely on china not just in making the products but also buying them and if similar things happen in other countries it could affect the price.

Stocks try to predict what will happen, but things won't go back to normal after the epidemic ends, there is a correction taking place as well and unless there's some new economic policies things won't change.

[IMJ]

While the market seems to be reacting to corona virus, which is partly true, this is mostly what we call a correction in finance. The stock market had been on a bull run since Trump got elected without much backing up the price, this happens from time to time and stocks fall and are "corrected" to what their real price should be. Convid19 is indeed responsible since markets are uncertain about what's going to happen and many companies rely on china not just in making the products but also buying them and if similar things happen in other countries it could affect the price.

Stocks try to predict what will happen, but things won't go back to normal after the epidemic ends, there is a correction taking place as well and unless there's some new economic policies things won't change.

Are you saying that your opinion, which you've implied is from within the field of finance, is that you view the current significant DOW drop - as large as it was and amidst the fear of a global pandemic in conjunction with a mass-production country being cripple - a traditional correction?

I mean most professionals and street investors will tell you that the 2018 drop was a true market correction. Market corrections are widely considered to be "normalizing events" amidst over value. On the other hand, this last week would only be recognized as a "correction" in the purely academic use of the term in that the market saw a 10%+ dip. And so, what we saw in 2018 was a true correction from an inflated market - which sucked but, in theory, was a normalizing event. But this week's dip was directly correlated to the confluence of current events: social behavior, and the fear of future supply chain issues, a global health event. That's not what most people would call a "normalizing market event".

I'm very curious to hear more about your theory on this. What economic policy is derelict in this regard?
Also in your last sentence you wrote "stocks try to predict what will happen". What do those words even mean? Stocks don't predict anything - stocks are representative constituent parts of organizational value.
Also please address what you mean by saying that "not much was backing the price" across the bull run. Productivity, excitement in investing, and America first policy brought business to moving markets which backed the price.... what are you talking about with that statement?

Please explain or address these things a bit, because you've got me hooked for curiosities sake.... :)

[Andrew NDB]

Also in your last sentence you wrote "stocks try to predict what will happen". What do those words even mean?

Maybe he meant stockbrokers? That's the way I read that. *shrug*

[IMJ]

Maybe he meant stockbrokers? That's the way I read that. *shrug*

I thought that too, but even that wouldn't correct the statement to truth..... I mean he's saying "what we call a correction in finance", implying some ownership of the field, but actually a stockbroker would be the first person - the absolutely first person to tell you that you can't time the market (hence "predict").

I've got a lot of questions about that post in the nature of conversation.

[sdp]

sorry, sometimes I write long posts, realize I'm getting into things that I don't care to explain and delete paragraphs only to sometimes have stuff that no longer makes sense. So yeah, I don't have much time to get into things, I already deleted half of this post :lol:

Short term trading is requires skill, long term trading is a lot easier, so it depends on what you're doing. For the average person, it'll just mean inflation unless you rely on your 401k. As I mentioned corona virus is definitely a factor, especially when countries start reporting lower growth in their quarter reports and other companies do as well. Stocks have been over valued and the bull market has lasted way too long without anything to back it up so yeah people expected them to drop quite a bit, people seem to be taking advantage of this to blame it on convid19. It's also why Bob Iger left Disney for example, timed to do the last damage when the stocks are already getting plummeted. I would expect a bigger drop soonish both because of overvaluation and convid19, Trump's polices aren't good long term so I can't see his bull market lasting a second term but if the pandemic is controlled things could go up again, if say Bernie gets the nomination you can bet the market will react negatively.

But before you decide to buy the dip, remember it's catching a falling knife. Short term trading is difficult, long term is easy since it's cyclical and things will go up eventually, sucks for your 401k but for the average person it'll just mean inflation.

As far as coronavirus, I think people are both exaggerating it and not taking it seriously enough, there has to be a balance. I think for the most part things will be fine, however you can bet I'll be more wary than normal. Better safe than not and having a few extra cans and washing my hands more often is not a bad thing, getting paranoid and doing more extreme things or reading only the news however is just as silly as thinking your invincible and not doing anything.

[IMJ]

sorry, sometimes I write long posts, realize I'm getting into things that I don't care to explain and delete paragraphs

You don't even know how much respect I have for this sentence. You're talking to a mirror, man. And if you think I post in a lot of the "deep discussion" threads, try to imagine what I've written, then deleted or read and shook my head at and clicked off the page. I understand completely.

It's also why Bob Iger left Disney for example, timed to do the last damage when the stocks are already getting plummeted.

Crazy to hear you say this. I actually had similar thoughts about how we see big wigs leave in clusters. The timing, etc.

Better safe than not and having a few extra cans and washing my hands more often is not a bad thing, getting paranoid and doing more extreme things or reading only the news however is just as silly as thinking your invincible and not doing anything.

I have to agree with this. Going out and buying a one year supply of SPAM is ridiculous. But having some extra toilet paper and tylenol and some canned food makes sense. And it's not because the world is ending or supplies will dry up, but rather so that you can remain at home when you otherwise normally wouldn't - in case you get sick or in case staying at home keeps you healthy if you live in an area where an outbreak occurs.

Just some basic, simple stuff. What always makes me laugh are those guys who buy "beans" and whatnot. It's a fine strategy, but actually ask those guys how they'd eat them and many either couldn't tell you or they'd simply imply that they would just sit there and eat boiled beans. That's it. Just eat the boiled beans. HAHAHAHAAHA my God. And then if you pressed them, but never mentioned "making soup" or "beef broth" or something like that, they'd fill the void with something like "well put seasoning on them!". Seasoning and boiled beans. Bring on the end, baby!

[Andrew NDB]

Over here? Lots of MREs, canned goods (not just beans), lots of bottled water, a good amount of firepower... yeah, bring it on. :)

[IMJ]

Over here? Lots of MREs, canned goods (not just beans), lots of bottled water, a good amount of firepower... yeah, bring it on. :)

8)
Now I'm secretly hoping that you secretly have your own Webley....
-I just confused everyone not in the PM circle-

[Andrew NDB]

8)
Now I'm secretly hoping that you secretly have your own Webley....


I do not. :(

[Voltron]

Eh, I don't think anyone on either side of the aisle is looking to Trump for soothing words of comfort in this or really any other matter. He's not that guy. Let Pence try and be that guy.

So the leader of country is not expected to lead? This isn't a problem for anyone?

Are you getting money from this guy? Has he done ANYTHING you disapprove of? For someone who's supposed to be making America great, he sure does hand the ball off a lot.

[IMJ]

I do not. :(

Here (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853376422) you go dude, Webley need fulfilled!

[IndigoErth]

Well the U.S. has our first death from it. So far so good that's only one, but sad nonetheless. :ohwell: Not finding anything yet on age or prior health, only that it was a man.

[Andrew NDB]

So the leader of country is not expected to lead? This isn't a problem for anyone?

Are you getting money from this guy? Has he done ANYTHING you disapprove of? For someone who's supposed to be making America great, he sure does hand the ball off a lot.

Lead doesn"t mean "soothing words of comfort." Is that something you require on the day to day, or something? Odd, if so.

[Voltron]

Is that all he's capable of doing? Soothing words?

First, words are powerful. And what he says matters. Obviously, his words didn't do much to assuage fears.

Second, this is what happens when everything is tied to one person.

For some reason, people seem to think that POTUS has some a great deal of influence over the economy. I don't believe this is inherently true, since the president isn't at the helm when it comes to spending. Congress is.

You yourself gave him credit for making the economy boom and helping your 401k. Now the economy is dropping and suddenly he's not only not responsible for the drop, but also not responsible for fixing it.

You don't present defined or consistent expectations for this guy. The economy is doing great, must be Trump. The economy isnt doing well, don't bother Trump!

I'll say this: I wouldn't pin the drop on Trump. Markets respond to panic like this all the time. And as far as another disaster for Trump, I wouldn't worry either. You consistently forgive and exonerate the man for things that no one should be. He'll escape this without a scratch as well.

I don't like to carry a banner for political parties or candidates for this reason. It's what happened to Obama groupies. And it's going to happen here. People are going to end up looking like fools for hero worship.

And you may say that you don't worship Trump. Or that you don't support him. But this brings it back to the original point: perception is a big factor. If people perceive you as something, it doesn't matter if you are that thing. They'll respond to you as though you are. Trump may not be a great business man, but people perceive him to be. And so people respect him as one. Trump is perceived to be a racist. May not be true, but the perception is important.

Trump didn't offer any soothing words. People perceive this as the problem being bigger than it is. Maybe it isn't. But that's not how people are going to act.

Trump does have a responsibility to at least dispel fears here. If people are still panicked, then he still has some work to do.

At the same time, if the last 5 outbreaks of some world ending plague didn't kill us, I suspect this one will blow over too.

[Sumac]

What next on the list of things Trump should do?
Feed elderly from the spoon? Wipe children asses?

The whole post above could be summed as: "I need another reason to hate Trump and I am gonna fabricate it out of thin air!"

And then Voltron is surprised why people think of him like this. :roll::lol:

[IMJ]

Thhhhaaattts right.... delete, cancel, remove what you don't like. Just like any loser that can't compute new information. Just make it go away.

[Leo656]

Side rant, kinda, but I've always noticed that a big reason people hate on Republicans and overly-gush over Democrats, is simply that the Blue side puts on a pretense of being "Nice People" while the Red side simply does not.

Like whenever anyone gushes over Obama to this day, for example, it's mostly about what a Nice Guy he was. And he probably is. Nice Guys don't generally make for good leaders, though; as my boss reminds me on the regular, "nice" doesn't get anyone very far in any sort of leadership position, and anyone with an overabundance of compassion isn't fit to lead in the first place because they're too easily swayed by emotion. But anyway. Obama was a Nice Guy; he pretty much only got the Nobel Peace Prize because he was a "Nice Guy" (since he had literally no accomplishments to speak of which would have earned him such a lofty accolade, aside from getting elected in the first place; so did he get it for giving dramatic speeches, or what? :lol:). And he had his share of scandals and kerfluffles during his eight years, but nobody talked about them then, and they never bring them up now, because he's a Nice Guy. Nobody wants that image to be tainted by the other baggage.

W. Bush, on the contrary, wasn't seen as much of a nice guy. He never seemed like all THAT bad of a guy to me, personally, but he definitely wasn't the smooth operator as Obama comes off as, for example. To this day, though, when Ellen DeGeneres sits next to him at a football game, she gets buried with hate mail for "supporting a war criminal". :roll: And out of office, Bush DOES actually seem like a really cool guy, he just had a really hard job and had to make a lot of controversial decisions, most of which weren't popular. BUT, he made those decisions and in some cases doubled-down on them; He wasn't easily swayed by popular opinion and never presented himself as "one of the people", and thus, "Not A Nice Guy."

Warren tries hard (TOO hard) to come off as "A Nice Guy/Person", right down to that cringe-worthy "Have myself a beer" scenario. :lol: Bernie paints himself as "A regular dude who just wants to help out the little guy" even though that image has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of his life or his actual status (He's a .00001%-er! You'd all hate this guy if he wasn't promising you free sh*t! :lol:). Across the aisle, Trump has no interest at all in being "The Nice Guy"; if anything, he goes out of his way to be as abrasive as possible. Yet this only endears him more and more to people who support him.

I find all of this very interesting. Given how far people like Warren and Trump will often go to play into either extreme, I have to believe that even the players themselves know that "Democrats are Nice and Republicans are Big Meanies" is just part of the script and they perform it as such. What surprises me, though, is how often the average person will buy into it as if these personas we see on TV are actually how the human beings themselves really behave when the cameras are off, which I assure you is not the case. They're all just playing a character on a TV show. What they do and what actions they take behind closed doors is another matter entirely, but in speaking to the actual faces they present to the world on TV and in the media, well, all of that is fabricated for the entertainment of the viewer. A story is no fun without Good Guys and Bad Guys, after all.

It partly makes me wonder why anyone would go into politics under the Republican banner, since it means anyone who isn't nuts is going to hate you, but then I remember that it's simply more fun sometimes to play the villain.

[Voltron]

You guys said he was a great hype man, not me. You said he was great for the economy, not me.

What a perfect time to shine. And what a perfect time for some consistency.


And in a thread about Trump and the coronavirus, forgive me for

A: talking about Trump

and

B: not having the same high opinion of him as you do.

W. Bush, on the contrary, wasn't seen as much of a nice guy.

What the hell are you talking about? He was billed as "someone they could have a beer with". He was constantly held up as a sensitive, church going "every-man". Here's a link discussing that point. (https://time.com/3798812/front-row-seat-eric-draper-on-george-w-bush/)

Meanwhile, the other side of politics went bat-**** insane when Obama wore a tan suit or saluted a marine while holding a cup of coffee. Here's another where that selfish bastard had the gall to ask marines to hold umbrellas for him. NOT NICE. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/09/24/obamas-latte-salute-controversy-spins-into-second-day/)

There is literally NOTHING one side did that the other hasn't. You can't offer up a complaint without first acknowledging that everyone did it. Just to set your mind at ease, it's not hard to find examples of ANY political figure doing SOMETHING people weren't happy with.

she gets buried with hate mail for "supporting a war criminal"
Because his administration was accused of war crimes.

And out of office, Bush DOES actually seem like a really cool guy,

he just had a really hard job
Really? If you're going to make that excuse for him, then why not all presidents?


and had to make a lot of controversial decisions, most of which weren't popular.
He lead us into an endless war. I'd imagine most sane people would find that less than stellar decision making.

BUT, he made those decisions and in some cases doubled-down on them
Governing is like jazz. If you've sold the entire country on war using false information and ended up killing thousands of your own soldiers for no reason, then you back down. You don't apologize. The wise thing to do is to keep the war going so your friends can make more money on a war no one likes!

He wasn't easily swayed by popular opinion and never presented himself as "one of the people", and thus, "Not A Nice Guy."
Again, that was his whole persona. Here's another link discussing that. (https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2008/12/29/the-politics-of-everyman/)

Warren tries hard (TOO hard) to come off as "A Nice Guy/Person", right down to that cringe-worthy "Have myself a beer" scenario.
Hamberders. (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-appearances/the-pure-american-banality-of-donald-trumps-white-house-fast-food-banquet)

Bernie paints himself as "A regular dude who just wants to help out the little guy" even though that image has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of his life or his actual status (He's a .00001%-er! You'd all hate this guy if he wasn't promising you free sh*t! ).

First, it's good to know that. He's recently risen to that level. His first bid for the presidency is apparently what vaulted him there. I looked it up and he did indeed release his tax returns, something that the most transparent president in history has yet to do.


No, I wouldn't. He's joined protests and picket lines for workers (https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/senator-bernie-sanders-to-join-striking-att-workers-on-louisville-picket-line/417-d2970b0e-a5a6-4a53-9b22-8470c3956e54). He's been arrested for protesting at civil rights. (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bernie-sanders-1963-chicago-arrest-20160219-story.html)

I'm not picky. I'm aware of the general Republican platform and not opposed to it. Smaller government, lower taxes. . . who wouldn't be happier with that? But that's not what's executed. And anyone looking would see that they're just as keen on big government and welfare as any Democrat is.

Hating the Democrats is pointless virtue signaling if you aren't willing to go just as hard on the GOP. They're the opposite sides of the same coin. Which is and has been my stance all along. Neither of them are going to come through for any of us, and it's in our best interest to work towards shutting down a part of the system that hasn't served us.

When Andrew rants about needing soothing words, or Leo talks about being nice. . . that's kind of their job. They're supposed to project security and reassurance to us. That's what leadership is. And a sourpuss asshole isn't going to win people over, especially when they find out he's being a sourpuss to them.

Take FDR's inaugural address. 100% taking the helm and leading us into and through a very certain darkness. Because that's his job.

Take the Gettysburg Address. Solemn yet soaring words from a man presiding over what may have been the death of the United States.

Take the Dr. King's I Have a Dream. That's going to echo through the ages.

And then here we have a man who has the best words failing to give anything close to a semblance of leadership on an issue that's worried quite a few people. You think the least he could do is his job.

Across the aisle, Trump has no interest at all in being "The Nice Guy"; if anything, he goes out of his way to be as abrasive as possible. Yet this only endears him more and more to people who support him.
He's abrasive to people you dislike. Something tells me another leader using that style of "leadership" targeting you would be less welcomed.

I find all of this very interesting. Given how far people like Warren and Trump will often go to play into either extreme, I have to believe that even the players themselves know that "Democrats are Nice and Republicans are Big Meanies"
Except the mean ol' DemonRATS are coming for your guns and freedom. They were accused of starting death panels over Obamacare. Hell, one talking point that keeps popping up is that Democrats started the KKK and supported slavery during the Civil War.

Hell, did anyone think Hillary Clinton was nice? "What a nasty woman!"

What surprises me, though, is how often the average person will buy into it as if these personas we see on TV are actually how the human beings themselves really behave when the cameras are off,
Or, in this case, completely miss the whole media portrayal by a mile.

which I assure you is not the case.
As do I. But for different reasons.

They're all just playing a character on a TV show.
So Trump having admitted to breaking the law AND it being proven and through mounds of evidence is worse than the rest of them. Thanks for conceding the point.

What they do and what actions they take behind closed doors is another matter entirely,
. . . Which almost invariably get out. Is anyone waiting on some huge conspiracy from the past? Any day now we're going to find out LBJ really DID call the hit on Kennedy? That it really WAS a magic bullet that did +5 against Irish sex machines?

It partly makes me wonder why anyone would go into politics under the Republican banner, since it means anyone who isn't nuts is going to hate you, but then I remember that it's simply more fun sometimes to play the villain.
Yes. If I didn't have a soul I'd be right there getting rich off you rubes with the rest of them.

In the meantime, you'll have to content yourself with the SECRET MESSAGE I put in this very post. It's aimed directly at a certain member. First person to find it gets a prize! Good luck!

Also, I'd like to thank you all for being so flippant and panicky all the time. It sends me on Google dives for information pertaining to whatever political trend you're selling that day. I've ended up learning WAY more than I ever imagined. I'm still not totally unconvinced that Andrew just does this so I'd help him with his current events homework.

[IMJ]

Side rant, kinda, but I've always noticed that a big reason people hate on Republicans and overly-gush over Democrats, is simply that the Blue side puts on a pretense of being "Nice People" while the Red side simply does not.

Your whole post here basically discusses the generations old observations about liberalism and conservatism. The feels-for-good as opposed to logic-for-good. It's an honest balance in theory as well as archetype because people need a structure that encompasses the whole gamut. That span of people ranging from knee-jerk responders to extreme calculators.

But the fact is that the spectrum is a representative model. In some ways it unfortunately legitimizes the left yet the model only functions successfully in real life beginning immediately left of center and then all the way to the far right. Of course the far right is pretty ridiculous as well, but the irony is that things on the far right can still function whereas the far left is chaos and would tear itself apart.

[Sumac]

Because his administration was accused of war crimes.
Point me at any administration of any big country which couldn't be accused of war crimes at some point. Obama can be considered war criminal too, Clinton as well.

Hell, did anyone think Hillary Clinton was nice? "What a nasty woman!"
Hilarity is a two-faced chameleon. She had built herself such reputation that no amount of white-washing and blue checkmarks were able to scrub it away.

Yes. If I didn't have a soul I'd be right there getting rich off you rubes with the rest of them.

In the meantime, you'll have to content yourself with the SECRET MESSAGE I put in this very post. It's aimed directly at a certain member. First person to find it gets a prize! Good luck!

Also, I'd like to thank you all for being so flippant and panicky all the time. It sends me on Google dives for information pertaining to whatever political trend you're selling that day. I've ended up learning WAY more than I ever imagined. I'm still not totally unconvinced that Andrew just does this so I'd help him with his current events homework.
You should stop doing drugs in my honest opinion. Or should do more drugs. Because, it sounds not too far off from the rants certain member recently did about cartoon animals: meaningless and awkward to process.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]Point me at any administration of any big country which couldn't be accused of war crimes at some point. Obama can be considered war criminal too, Clinton as well.

It's almost like you didn't read my post. . .

Hilarity is a two-faced chameleon. She had built herself such reputation that no amount of white-washing and blue checkmarks were able to scrub it away.

Thank you for agreeing with me. I'll add another W on my board.


You should stop doing drugs in my honest opinion. Or should do more drugs. Because, it sounds not too far off from the rants certain member recently did about cartoon animals: meaningless and awkward to process.

FYI: I take all ad hominems as an apology and admission of defeat. Especially when they're void of any counterpoints or evidence of my being wrong. I forgive you, and thank you for conceding.

That's two W's. I'm on fire today.

[Leo656]

Well in my own defense, during the Bush Years I wasn't on the internet much and the only feedback I ever saw about him was in the newspapers, little of which was positive. :lol: *I* always thought he seemed like a chill dude but I didn't see that in too many other places.

That's all I can speak to at the moment because I'm at work. Shhhh. :trazz:

[Voltron]

You can rip me in half later. No worries.

On topic: I'm sitting next to ground zero of coronavirus and there's not a whole lot going on. The general attitude is precautionary measures. Schools are shut down, but everything else is running smoothly. I wouldn't start praying or moving into a bunker just yet.

Surgical masks are completely sold out, though.

A couple friends of mine are much closer to one of the "pandemic" regions. They're actually missing out on work. So. . . I guess it's different depending on where someone is.

[IndigoErth]

If nothing else, the virus is at least profitable for the companies who make the masks and hand sanitizer...

Had a guy in Walgreens asking me about the hand sanitizer today (had to tell him I'm vendor and don't work for the store) and told me places are selling out of it. Kind of grateful that I'd gotten a couple little bottles of it back before this thing hit the news since I'm always using it post-work store visits.

Wouldn't mind finding the N95 masks if they actually manage to restock. If nothing else, they're still useful around the house, so why not. (But push come to shove I still have an old one from my previous job when we were cleaning up/out the place after it closed down.)

[Sumac]

FYI: I take all ad hominems as an apology and admission of defeat. Especially when they're void of any counterpoints or evidence of my being wrong. I forgive you, and thank you for conceding.

That's two W's. I'm on fire today.
I can't make counterpoints to random nonsense.
So you can take one W from your list.

Also, you are the last who should blame others for acting "panicky".

[Voltron]

Thank you, Sumac. Again, apology accepted. A lot of people do fall back on name calling when presented with data they can't refute.

The thing that blows my mind is that there should be plenty of competing studies out there that contradict what I'm saying. But no one seems interested in finding it. So it's not that what I say can't be refuted. . . are you afraid of doing the footwork?

So we're not really having a discussion here. There's just some claim I have to research. I find some reports, then everyone calls me names for reading relevant materials and comparing it to what they've said. Which, I must say, doesn't do much to sway me to your side.

Me: "Hey, I found this article that says something different than what you've said. It's published by the same government headed by people who agree with you."

You Guys: "Go drink some soy, cuck!"

Me: "I never thought of it like that. Consider my mind changed!"

[Sumac]

Thank you, Sumac. Again, apology accepted. A lot of people do fall back on name calling when presented with data they can't refute.

The thing that blows my mind is that there should be plenty of competing studies out there that contradict what I'm saying. But no one seems interested in finding it. So it's not that what I say can't be refuted. . . are you afraid of doing the footwork?

So we're not really having a discussion here. There's just some claim I have to research. I find some reports, then everyone calls me names for reading relevant materials and comparing it to what they've said. Which, I must say, doesn't do much to sway me to your side.

Me: "Hey, I found this article that says something different than what you've said. It's published by the same government headed by people who agree with you."

You Guys: "Go drink some soy, cuck!"

Me: "I never thought of it like that. Consider my mind changed!"
You know what is the main problem of the people like you? You think you are smarter than everyone, without being able to back it up.

As they say: "arrogance will be your undoing", which we can see in our world with people like you and this particular example on this particular forum right now.

I wasn't even refuting any of your "precious hard found information". I provided commentary / additions on three specific quotes of your longpost. And that's it. But it seems you have an conversation with a "alt-right Sumac" that lives rent-free in your head and calls you boo-boo names, instead of the real thing.

My advice: next time when you try to look smart, try to read what was written and not assume that everyone who comments on your novels are inherently trying to viciously argue with your points. Because, right now, you've put yourself into really awkward situation, by claiming victory in a discussion you had with yourself, answering to the points which were never've been risen by anyone in actuality, but existed only in your imagination.

Of course, if that's the only way you can win anything...please, be my guest. ;)

[Klunk1234]

The Coronavirus death toll is still raising and California just confirm its first case. The news says that a vaccine can be ready in 6 months.

[Leo656]

So just to take a second and go onto something I read a few times over the years, but I thought it was pretty well accepted as fact by now that hand sanitizer is kind of a joke and is no substitute for simply washing one's hands with soap and hot water for more than five seconds? Did that suddenly change? Or is it just a "better safe than sorry" thing?

I know for a fact that nobody washes their goddamn hands properly, since I'm around people all the time and am something of a low-level germaphobe on account of I used to get sick a lot. But as I understand it, hand sanitizer doesn't do much of anything if you don't actually, y'know, wash your f*cking hands.

Did I miss a meeting?

[IMJ]

So just to take a second and go onto something I read a few times over the years, but I thought it was pretty well accepted as fact by now that hand sanitizer is kind of a joke and is no substitute for simply washing one's hands with soap and hot water for more than five seconds? Did that suddenly change? Or is it just a "better safe than sorry" thing?

I know for a fact that nobody washes their goddamn hands properly, since I'm around people all the time and am something of a low-level germaphobe on account of I used to get sick a lot. But as I understand it, hand sanitizer doesn't do much of anything if you don't actually, y'know, wash your f*cking hands.

Did I miss a meeting?

I've got maybe three things on that - one is training grade, the other is something I've read the last few days and the third is experiential.

The training thing is that in first responder training we were taught that the best decontamination is soap and water in repetition, and that the "magic number" is 20 seconds. It seems that healthcare officials widely don't even care why this is. It's simple enough that 20 seconds is the magic number when most foreign particles simply dislodge from skin adhesion under soap as it breaks water on your skin.

The thing I read was that making hand sanitizer at home is apparently pretty easy if you want to do it using rubbing alcohol, aloe vera lotion and something scented if you care about that kind of thing. And apparently it's pretty easy to make it at a greater than 60% alcohol ratio, which I guess is the minimum recommended.

The experiential thing is that I had a search event take place in a small, confined and contaminated area once. The mitigation action by the nurses was to pour bleach on my hands and then rinse them under running water. True story and I followed their protocol, but I couldn't help but wonder if this was problematic. Nothing ever came of it in my case, which is good. But I wouldn't recommend it. I later found that doing this can actually make your skin dry out, causing micro-fissures in your hands where contaminants could actually get under your skin. So basically, back to square one, man. Soap and water, magic number is 20 seconds.

[Leo656]

Huh. Imagine that.

Last show I was at, I went to take a piss during intermission and I seen a kid, maybe 7 or 8 years old, come in, piss, and walk right out without even looking at the sink. Took everything I had not to bark "Wash your f*cking hands!" but there were too many people around and I didn't wanna make a scene.

But based on that fifteen seconds I assume the kid's a scumbag and his Dad's probably a jagoff.

[Andrew NDB]

Well... there's the hand-washing you do in the public restroom by yourself, and then there's the hand-washing you do when there's on-lookers. :)

Except after #2. That's nasty. #1, I mean... I know my d*** is clean, right?

[IMJ]

Well... there's the hand-washing you do in the public restroom by yourself, and then there's the hand-washing you do when there's on-lookers. :)

Except after #2. That's nasty. #1, I mean... I know my d*** is clean, right?

No, no, no.... okay see I've had this conversation with my buddies. ;)
So here it is, so be prepared to puke.....

See maybe you're dick is clean, but certainly there was a dirty dick there before you, and then you realize that the dirty-dick-guy held his dirty-dick and then flushed the toilet with the dirty-dick-hand. And then you flushed the toilet.

So yeah. Wash your hands after number 1 because someone's dick is always dirty.

:lol::lol::lol:

See? I look out for you guys. :lol:

[Leo656]

Plus there's bound to be some splashback. Microbes, and whatever.

Just wash your f*cking hands, people. If you're near a sink at all, even if you don't think you have to... just wash your f*cking hands. It's a minor inconvenience in exchange for not spreading filth everywhere.

I cannot stand feeling "filmy" or sticky even a little bit so I probably wash more than is necessary. Not compulsively or obsessively, but I'm definitely thorough. I know some people who don't even f*cking shower "Because I'm not going anywhere" or "I'm not trying to impress anybody", and that's just... well, I don't put myself in their sphere of influence very often, let's just put it that way. But some people have very "interesting" ideas about hygiene.

[Voltron]

Had a discussion about hand sanitizer in class. Word is that alcohol based hand sanitizers with higher than 60% alcohol are effective at killing coronavirus. It isn't capable of killing all viruses due to difference in their chemical makeups.

Also, from what I understand, it's 15 seconds. 5 seconds doesn't do nearly as much.

Either way, wash your hands.

[IndigoErth]

Well... there's the hand-washing you do in the public restroom by yourself, and then there's the hand-washing you do when there's on-lookers. :)

Except after #2. That's nasty. #1, I mean... I know my d*** is clean, right?
No, no, no.... okay see I've had this conversation with my buddies. ;)
So here it is, so be prepared to puke.....

See maybe you're dick is clean, but certainly there was a dirty dick there before you, and then you realize that the dirty-dick-guy held his dirty-dick and then flushed the toilet with the dirty-dick-hand. And then you flushed the toilet.

So yeah. Wash your hands after number 1 because someone's dick is always dirty.

:lol::lol::lol:

See? I look out for you guys. :lol:
Furthermore... Some people may be fine with their own germs, but look, other than their partner probably NO ONE wants anything to do with any of that. And people who don't wash after having their hands up in their junk in the bathroom (and coming into contact with the germs of others as well) just give me somewhat horrifying visions of them afterward going to, say...make a sandwich and have their hands all up on the lunch meat that no one cooks and will sit there and stew in whatever the hell crotch bugs they left behind on it.

OH HELL NO. No no no no. This is why people end up with fun bouts of diarrhea or whatever.

I always wash so it annoys me when others don't give other people the same common courtesy of doing the same.



As for the hand sanitizer, the alcohol is going to naturally be good at killing things. Maybe not all things, but it can certainly help. I always keep some with me for work, using it after each stop and during on occasion if need be. Soap and water may be just as recommended or more-so, but obviously that's not always available or convenient.




edit: Random thought... What about physical money? The sort of things like that which are easy to overlook? The virus may have a limited lifespan on surfaces outside of a host, but paper and coin cash can change through multiple hands so quickly.

Cash; gas pumps; the ATM; the checkout card reader (that most probably already consider gross anyhow). What about all the mail that the postal person comes in contact with every day via people who'd placed it in their mailbox only hours (or less) ago, and/or a virus carrying mailman/woman potentially spreading it to an entire community?

Could make you a little neurotic to consider all the ways it could sneak in, but many options are there. :ohwell:

[Hamato Yoshi]

"Now you forgot , wash your hands !" (Walken , Nick of Time) :lol:

[IndigoErth]

When you saw that recipe online a few days ago for how to make your own hand sanitizer, but you're left weighing the options between...

A. ...visiting a store on the busy weekend and seeing if people haven't yet wiped out those ingredients, or
B. ...stay home and keep away from those people out there that make you need the stuff in the first place.

:tlol:


Edit: Probably option C. ...look while I'm out during the week for work anyhow and shrug if nothing there.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hotel-collapse-traps-70-eastern-china-154017056.html

One of the quarantine facilities in eastern China where the virus originated was an 80 room hotel. It collapsed this morning with 70 people still trapped in the rubble. At least 40 people have been rescued and no death toll has been reported. The rescue mission is ongoing. An investigation will follow to learn what caused the hotel to collapse without warning.

[IndigoErth]

What the heck, that's awful. Was it a former/abandoned property that they didn't bother checking to see if it was still structurally sound? Too sad.



My lil' state is surrounded now... If it isn't here within a week I'll be surprised, esp since it's nearby parts of PA and Jersey that have cases and their residents are always coming over here. :ohwell: Was wondering who the next northeast state would be to fall since there's just a few holdouts and looks like CT is it today, via hospital staff that are residents of NY. Nice. :tsad:

[Voltron]

With the virus remaining asymptomatic for days, it's probably a safe bet that's more widespread than is being reported.

Two cases just popped up in my city. I'm surprised, because we're a pretty large tourist town, I'd have figured it have been more prevalent here. Not to mention we're pretty close to a major urban center with one of the higher case rates in the nation.

Gotta wash those hands!

[IndigoErth]

Looks like we lost Vermont, too. Okay Maine, you and us (DE) are the last northeast holdouts, who is going to win this? Bet it isn't us. (But do we unknowingly already have it.)

[Voltron]

Me? Jersey already fell. Four presumptive cases already.

If I were you, I'd demand a sales tax to keep us filthy outsiders from visiting. I don't know many people who head to Wilmington for sightseeing. Kidding, of course. Delaware is a fun time.

[IndigoErth]

:lol: Now that's just an unfair impossible choice, sales tax or temporary illness?? I most definitely do not want to be ill, I haven't even had a single cold this winter (knock on wood), I'd prefer to keep on that path (and not lose pay over it)... but a permanent tax is no better! :tlol:

[Sumac]

Moscow here.
About 10 or so infected, but so far no major outbreak.

There are several contingency plans in case of major outbreak though, like closing the whole city down and shutting down all schools and public transportation, including subway.

People who arrived from countries with outbreak (Italy, China) should quarantine themselves for 2 weeks in their homes.

[Voltron]

:lol: Now that's just an unfair impossible choice, sales tax or temporary illness?? I most definitely do not want to be ill, I haven't even had a single cold this winter (knock on wood), I'd prefer to keep on that path (and not lose pay over it)... but a permanent tax is no better! :tlol:

Great! Because I want a new plasma screen. *cough cough* :sick:

[IndigoErth]

No, no... you just stay there, check back for it come summer. Maybe Black Friday. lol

[Coola Yagami]

The Coronavirus death toll is still raising and California just confirm its first case. The news says that a vaccine can be ready in 6 months.

Wow, 6 months. In 6 months all of this would have (hopefully) have died down already. It would have probably have come and went like the swine flu before it.

[Leo656]

Man, I know that China has been angry at Trump for a while, but you'd hope that they'd stop short of unleashing a friggin' plague. :lol:

Just kidding. Kinda. I'unno, DISprove it! :trazz:

[TommyT]

There’s a 60 minutes episode from Australia, and if you want to know what they’re not telling you...

The expectation is that 40-60% of the world will be infected, 45 million will die.

Y7nZ4mw4mXw

[Voltron]

I've seen a few numbers being thrown around. I think as high as 70%.

One thing to keep in mind is that each outbreak of a new disease is going to be at least a little different considering not all diseases are the same. In addition, there's a high chance that even the official information coming in is going to be off due to poor reporting methods.

Man, I know that China has been angry at Trump for a while, but you'd hope that they'd stop short of unleashing a friggin' plague.

Just kidding. Kinda. I'unno, DISprove it!

Nice try! Implicating the Chinese won't throw us off the trail. He who blames it, claims it.Why did YOU unleash the plague, Leo?

[Leo656]

If memory serves, it was because they keep making Fast & Furious movies. And people keep watching them.

I'm doing God's work. You'll all thank me one day.

[Voltron]

Hell, I'm thanking you now.

[sdp]

Looks like a worldwide recession is for sure, between the correction of the "boom" economy , Corona and now oil fight, tsss.

We haven't seen something like this, let's hope it doesn't get much worse but it's hard to predict anything right now

[IMJ]

There’s a 60 minutes episode from Australia, and if you want to know what they’re not telling you...

The expectation is that 40-60% of the world will be infected, 45 million will die.

Y7nZ4mw4mXw

What I'm starting to want to consider is now related to the time of total proliferation. At this point there's no question that this is a legit, devastating issue in many ways. It affects everyone, on a global scale, lots of deaths and markets literally crashing (they shut down S&P trading today for 15 minutes to stop an honest to God freefall).

And so now I want to see as much data as possible indicating a "survival by" date. "The way this thing spreads is that we hope to pull through and have physical and extensional recoveries by July [or whenever]".

But what's worse is that as we enact social distancing measures to stop the spread we are actually dragging out the economic effects such that they will be much worse. It's an honest catch-22.

[TommyT]

Man, if ever there was a time for you to fight for universal healthcare, lol.
Then again, maybe some of you are eagerly anticipating a culling of the herd. This place, it’s a coin toss on the psychopathy indicators.

Canada now has it’s first death. We’re drawing lots to see who gets her horded Toilet Paper.

[Andrew NDB]

If memory serves, it was because they keep making Fast & Furious movies. And people keep watching them.

Well, they're pretty awesome.

[IMJ]

Man, if ever there was a time for you to fight for universal healthcare, lol.
Then again, maybe some of you are eagerly anticipating a culling of the herd. This place, it’s a coin toss on the psychopathy indicators.

AHAHAHAHAHA! :lol: OMG...

[IndigoErth]

We’re drawing lots to see who gets her horded Toilet Paper.
Hah, was just going to mention hearing today that toilet paper (and tissues) is supposedly selling out. A coworker blames the dooms day preppers for it. lol

[Sumac]

Death toll of Coronovirus is pretty small so far, so I don't see where that number of 45 million people dying from the virus is coming from.

As for Dow Jones failure - thanks to Russia who get into fight with OPEC. Funny thing, if this "crisis" will continue Russian economy will suffer the most because of it. Guess, Putin's cronies hope that OPEC and / or Saudi Arabia will try to make a deal again...

[Leo656]

Well, they're pretty awesome.

Congratulations, you're out of the will.

[TommyT]

Death toll of Coronovirus is pretty small so far, so I don't see where that number of 45 million people dying from the virus is coming from.

As for Dow Jones failure - thanks to Russia who get into fight with OPEC. Funny thing, if this "crisis" will continue Russian economy will suffer the most because of it. Guess, Putin's cronies hope that OPEC and / or Saudi Arabia will try to make a deal again...

Watch the video

[Voltron]

Death toll of Coronovirus is pretty small so far, so I don't see where that number of 45 million people dying from the virus is coming from.


To be fair, 45 million is only .64 percent of 7 billion. I suppose it comes down to the losses we're willing to accept.

[Papenbrook]

This is saddening. :(

Many people dying, with so many more infected - scary.

Stay safe, everyone.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/10/at-least-45-colleges-have-cancelled-in-person-classes-so-far-over-coronavirus-fears/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailypress.com/news/health/dp-nw-coronavirus-college-preparations-20200311-z477ideuc5fifodxnxi32pta6y-story.html%3foutputType=amp
This is getting worrisome. All major colleges in my state and over 140 overall have shuttered going on extended Spring Break and then online for up to a month.

All late night shows, Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune are going on without audiences. MLB is considering empty stadiums as well as NBA.

Trump is to address the nation tonight at 9pm EST.

[joe-eyeball]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2020-03-11/nba-suspends-season-indefinitely-over-coronavirus-pandemic

This is getting crazy! NBA season suspended!

[Autbot_Benz]

Tom Hanks and his wife Rita Wilson tested got Corona Virus while in Australia

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/11/entertainment/tom-hanks-rita-wilson-coronavirus/index.html?utm_source=twCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2020-03-12T01%3A42%3A29

[ranger_scout]

Oh my ! I'm really hoping that they will both be okay and are getting as much help as they can. :o Hanks has released a statement.

“Hello, folks. Rita and I are down here in Australia. We felt a bit tired, like we had colds, and some body aches. Rita had some chills that came and went. Slight fevers too. To play things right, as is needed in the world right now, we were tested for the Coronavirus, and were found to be positive.

Well, now. What to do next? The Medical Officials have protocols that must be followed. We Hanks’ will be tested observed, and isolated for as long as public health and safety requires. Not much more to it than a one-day-at-a-time approach, no?

We’ll keep the world posted and updated.

Take care of yourselves!”

It happened while the couple was in Australia for production of Baz Luhrmann’s untitled Elvis Presley movie, in which Hanks is playing Presley’s iconic manager Colonel Tom Parker.

We have been made aware that a company member from our Elvis feature film, which is currently in pre-production in The Gold Coast, Australia, has tested positive for COVID-19 (coronavirus),” the statement reads. “We are working closely with the appropriate Australian health agencies to identify and contact anyone who may have come in direct contact with the individual. The health and safety of our company members is always our top priority, and we are taking precautions to protect everyone who works on our productions around the world. The individual who tested positive for COVID-19 is currently receiving treatment.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/tom-hanks-rita-wilson-coronavirus-1203531498/

[sdp]

The thirty day Ban for Europe is going to kill the market. What a way to start the decade..

[TigerClaw]

Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards has been postponed.
https://deadline.com/2020/03/kids-choice-awards-postponed-coronavirus-concerns-1202880391/

[Voltron]

GOP just blocked sick leave for employees. So you can't go see an NBA game you bought tickets for, but you better show up to work.

Luckily, Congress still gets it. Don't worry, folks! Ted Cruz and Matt "Gas Mask" Gaetz will be A-OK!

Back at it, slaves!

[IMJ]

The thirty day Ban for Europe is going to kill the market. What a way to start the decade..

The markets already dyin' man. I wish I could explain my personal understanding of this, but the details I'd have to get into on this forum - it aint gonna happen. But the point is that the travel ban - I mean you've got to do something, you know?

My biggest issue is this - and I don't understand why more people aren't talking about this - okay so clearly the "social distancing" and trying to not get infected is only dragging things out because it seems like everyone is going to come into contact with this thing. And by dragging it out we are dragging out the market death and so on.

I think we should be putting more effort into production of mdical goods to aid in health recovery than the effort at instructing social distancing. The distancing isn't going to work quite the way we'd hope. So if 80% of people are going to get this thing, the only reason to drag it out might be to lessen an influx for medical care needs, I suppose. But it's also going to drag out the market drops as well.

[Voltron]

Because an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Also, making medical supplies for. . . what? Most of the supplies are superficial. Most surgical masks are decorative. And hand washing is just good hygiene regardless. Compensating for shortages isn't going to stop this.

Rushing to find a vaccine or medicine to stop this is a fool's errand since the virus can evolve and change to combat our efforts.

The markets already dyin' man. I wish I could explain my personal understanding of this, but the details I'd have to get into on this forum - it aint gonna happen.

No. Please, do.

[Andrew NDB]

My wife apparently drew blood from someone today at work who has it so... yeah.

I'm just not sure what all the noise about "why didn't we have access to free tests for it!" are. Even if it comes up that you have it... what are you supposed to do with that information? There is no cure or vaccine yet. Not go to work for a few days, I guess? But then what? Wait for some kind of bailout from the government?

[Roseangelo]

Reported cases keep getting closer to me, and they brought some of those cruise ship passengers into town for their quarantine.

I am planning to go to Disneyland in less than three weeks. Still planning to go.

[sdp]

Does the administration not have economic advisers? Besides the obvious answer, what was the purpose of that? It'll only hurt his re-election campaign, it was a lose-lose scenario, should've just skipped the conference and things would at least be better including for him.

Wait for some kind of bailout from the government?

Yes, some type of signal that something is being done or markets will be protected. Not a bail out, stimulate the economy. Instead we got the opposite signal and now the reactions, we're already in a bear market, just wait until the western markets open.

[Andrew NDB]

Yes, some type of signal that something is being done or markets will be protected. Not a bail out, stimulate the economy. Instead we got the opposite signal and now the reactions, we're already in a bear market, just wait until the western markets open.

OK. But that just speaks to the economy. To the core problem of the virus and its spread... just stay at home forever and not be able to pay rent? Or what? I get that there's no easy solution right now... but why the fire about testing? Though, eh... what would even BE a good solution?

Maybe some kind of bailout for older working folks to stay at home for a while, and treat it how we would for the regular flu for everyone else?

[Wildcat]

I’m gonna be honest. This is scaring me.

I know there’s been other illnesses like Swine Flu and Wes Nile. Not to make light of them. I’m sure they were legitimately bad for those affected but I’ve never actually feared the spread of an infection.

Some actually think everyone is overreacting. No. This is obviously a major deal. It’s unbelievable that some people would still leave the country just for vacation in the past few months. Like you just couldn’t resist a trip? Ridiculous.

It was mentioned a vaccine would take over a year to make.

[IMJ]

Because an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Also, making medical supplies for. . . what? Most of the supplies are superficial. Most surgical masks are decorative. And hand washing is just good hygiene regardless. Compensating for shortages isn't going to stop this.

Rushing to find a vaccine or medicine to stop this is a fool's errand since the virus can evolve and change to combat our efforts.



No. Please, do.

No, no I'm talking about retro-virals or something that have been shown to be effective. I had read somewhere that certain HIV drugs were found to be fairly effective.

I'm not talking about face masks and pop culture "supplies" unless for medical professionals. And I agree about prevention - I've been in circumstances where mitigation is the fix - so I get that. But you are using it as a cliche here - not many people are ultimately going to escape exposure to this virus from the current projections, and that is my point.

As for the "no, please do"... lmao. Dude, you do instructional design. I definitely wouldn't want to get into an earnings and investing pissing contest with you. :P But I will say this - I don't go buying ZL1's and four-figure slabbed silver-age comic books, or any other outlandishly expensive nonsense until after all of my other bills are paid, after the lady is happy and the kids are taken care of, and after my house looks good. And if my concern about the market makes you happy, then you can deeply enjoy that I've lost 80k already in the recent market declines.

I’m gonna be honest. This is scaring me.

It should brother... but only appropriately, man. :) Just be as healthy as you can for the time being, adopt some good habits. Even structure is a good habit - meal prep, even. It creates structure around your shopping times, saves money from eating out, encourages healthier eating. Basic, basic things that give you that "molecule" of an edge against getting sick. Eat more blueberries. Silly little things within structure all add up. It's like making money - pennies count more than hundred dollar bills. Health habits are the same. Buy a netti pot. If you get sick, manual reduction of viral load is just as important as chemical reduction. All these little things, man. :)

[Voltron]

No, no I'm talking about retro-virals or something that have been shown to be effective. I had read somewhere that certain HIV drugs were found to be fairly effective.

Noted. Care to post that?

I found this (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-promising-antiviral-is-being-tested-for-the-coronavirus-but-results-are-not-yet-out/) from Scientific American. It talks about using antivirals. The problem is that the outbreak is so recent and science is kind of slow, especially when medical science is working on human subjects.

Making antivirals is a good idea, but we have to know which one we need to make first. I'd also caution against betting too heavily on it. We seem to get one or two of these a decade anymore. Many times it's some variant of something we've seen before. Swine flu or bird flu. Covid-19 is related to SARS. Feels like we're treading water as a species, here.

But you are using it as a cliche here -
It's cliche for a reason. It's the best we, the common rabble, have at the moment.

To be fair, I'm living in one of the worst hit areas of the world at the moment. Not a whole lot has changed here, though. It's on the news and every new infection is a headline, but everyone is still out and about.

not many people are ultimately going to escape exposure to this virus from the current projections, and that is my point.
Granted. This is starting to look grim.

As for the "no, please do"... lmao. Dude, you do instructional design. I definitely wouldn't want to get into an earnings and investing pissing contest with you. :P But I will say this - I don't go buying ZL1's and four figure silver age slabs or any other outlandishly expensive nonsense until after all of my other bills are paid, after the lady is happy and the kids are taken care of, and after my house looks good.

My house constantly looks like a bomb went off. Maybe a ZL1 in the drive way would distract people from the year old typhoon constantly whirling about the place. :lol:

[Wildcat]

It should brother... but only appropriately, man. :) Just be as healthy as you can for the time being, adopt some good habits. Even structure is a good habit - meal prep, even. It creates structure around your shopping times, saves money from eating out, encourages healthier eating. Basic, basic things that give you that "molecule" of an edge against getting sick. Eat more blueberries. Silly little things within structure all add up. It's like making money - pennies count more than hundred dollar bills. Health habits are the same. Buy a netti pot. If you get sick, manual reduction of viral load is just as important as chemical reduction. All these little things, man. :)Oh I already wash my hands an absurd amount of times. Always have...partly because I have a lot of runny nose problems. I also like fruits and vegetables. Again always have.

I’ve been wanting that Navage nose cleanser. My sinuses have been bothering me way before this.

Anyway this is creeping me out.

[IMJ]

Noted. Care to post that?

I found this (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-promising-antiviral-is-being-tested-for-the-coronavirus-but-results-are-not-yet-out/) from Scientific American. It talks about using antivirals. The problem is that the outbreak is so recent and science is kind of slow, especially when medical science is working on human subjects.

Making antivirals is a good idea, but we have to know which one we need to make first. I'd also caution against betting too heavily on it. We seem to get one or two of these a decade anymore. Many times it's some variant of something we've seen before. Swine flu or bird flu. Covid-19 is related to SARS. Feels like we're treading water as a species, here.

This isn't what I initially read, but it was the fastest google hit.
Coronavirus puts drug repurposing on the fast track (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00003-1)

I specifically remember seeing somewhere a couple of weeks ago that HIV patients in China were being asked to give their treatment drugs to COVID patients...... I recall a story where one HIV patient apparently had some incredible hoard that he donated.


My house constantly looks like a bomb went off. Maybe a ZL1 in the drive way would distract people from the year old typhoon constantly whirling about the place. :lol:

Well you could always live in the ZL1 and then drive away quickly when the infection comes, so there's that. 8)

[IMJ]

Oh I already wash my hands an absurd amount of times. Always have...partly because I have a lot of runny nose problems. I also like fruits and vegetables. Again always have.

I’ve been wanting that Navage nose cleanser. My sinuses have been bothering me way before this.

Anyway this is creeping me out.

Ohhhh I understand the sinus thing. I live with it too and my explanation here is the proof - You aren't supposed to be aware that you have sinuses or a nose. They are just supposed to be there. But I am aware all the time that I have them. LMAO! It's beyond pain or congestion.

It's complete bull $#!( - it's like being aware that you have a throat. You aren't supposed to be actively aware of that - it's just supposed to be there, but if you can feel the inside of your throat all the time you've got a f'n problem. :lol::lol::lol:

[Wildcat]

Ohhhh I understand the sinus thing. I live with it too and my explanation here is the proof - You aren't supposed to be aware that you have sinuses or a nose. They are just supposed to be there. But I am aware all the time that I have them. LMAO! It's beyond pain or congestion.

It's complete bull $#!( - it's like being aware that you have a throat. You aren't supposed to be actively aware of that - it's just supposed to be there, but if you can feel the inside of your throat all the time you've got a f'n problem. :lol::lol::lol:Ya it’s gotten worse over time. Especially when I eat. Anything I eat makes it run. Even when I sneeze and am able to clear my head it’s just a short relief.

The scary thing is sometimes I need to wipe my nose in public so I carry tissue and hand sanitizer. This happened the other day at the grocery store...but they’ve warned not to touch your face so of course coronavirus popped into my mind.

I couldn’t walk around with a runny nose those though.

[TommyT]

Really interesting to watch this play out. My biggest fear is no the virus, it’s the fallout from the panic. People have every right to be afraid, but now the slow moving wave is coming. Lots of B&E and shootings about to happen, over soap and canned beans.

Tomorrow the Dow will force another halt, but will we see new record lows?
How scared is everyone really?

How much food do you have? Can you survive 31 days on lockdown?

[Andrew NDB]

How much food do you have? Can you survive 31 days on lockdown?

Yes, but... for a virus that is really only killing people ages 70 and up, do I need to? I mean, god, if going to work (whether we're talking about schools or anything) means putting them in harm's way, we DO need to reassess... but this hardly seems like the end times.

[Icebot]

I watched the Hey Arnold episode “Sid and Germs” to try to help me not worry so much about Coronavirus. Is this a good idea?

[Voltron]

Yes, but... for a virus that is really only killing people ages 70 and up, do I need to? I mean, god, if going to work (whether we're talking about schools or anything) means putting them in harm's way, we DO need to reassess... but this hardly seems like the end times.

That's not the point. The point is that other people may panic, and that may put you in a bad position.

Though, I'd be very surprised if we're eating each other by the end of the week.

[Candy Kappa]

Just follow simple steps for infection prevention

https://www.helsedirektoratet.no/tema/beredskap-og-krisehandtering/koronavirus/plakater-og-informasjonsmateriell/20200305%20Hygieneplakat-engelsk.png/_/attachment/download/5cdb91c1-141c-4fbb-b999-a5f6432e106a:5d9480df364c7c392b68c0bd463cfcbb0523e 07a/20200305%20Hygieneplakat-engelsk.png

And contact your GP if you've traveled to a outbreak area or been in contact with someone that's been traveling, and self quarantine is like 14 days if you're not sick

[Voltron]

What if I'm experiencing sudden necrosis and have an odd hunger for human flesh? Will the hand washing save me?

[TommyT]

That's not the point. The point is that other people may panic, and that may put you in a bad position.

Though, I'd be very surprised if we're eating each other by the end of the week.

BINGO

Like I said, it's not the virus I'm most afraid of. A fire alarm goes off in the 60's, and people inside die, only the fire never touched them. Wasn't the smoke either.

t'was the trampling.

[Andrew NDB]

That's not the point. The point is that other people may panic, and that may put you in a bad position.


Right but... can we revisit why exactly is anyone panicking other than 70ish year-olds?

[TommyT]

Right but... can we revisit why exactly is anyone panicking other than 70ish year-olds?

You’re over simplifying.

Fat
Diabetic
Smoker
Asthma
Immune deficiency


All of the above are at risk. 1in 5 of you are fat. Smoking includes vaping. Diabetes and heart disease are big pre existing conditions in the country.

It think its obvious why people are freaking out. Its not just about the grandparents.

[Andrew NDB]

You’re over simplifying.

Fat
Diabetic
Smoker
Asthma
Immune deficiency


All of the above are at risk. 1in 5 of you are fat. Smoking includes vaping. Diabetes and heart disease are big pre existing conditions in the country.

It think its obvious why people are freaking out. Its not just about the grandparents.

I'm just looking at the deaths in my state. 95% of them are people in their 70s and 80s. One guy in his 50s with a pre-existing thing.

[TommyT]

I'm just looking at the deaths in my state. 95% of them are people in their 70s and 80s. One guy in his 50s with a pre-existing thing.

I just listed the factors they are concerned about. This is the beginning, not the end.

They are expecting it to hit between 30-70% of every country, at a minimum.

You're not safe, and if you have any of the conditions above, you might not survive. Your country is a fat mess. It's cruel to talk about, but it's a fact.

E3URhJx0NSw

You're right, you don't need to panic, but trust that everyone else will do it for you.

[Sumac]

Everyday I am riding in a subway and buses amidst scores of other people. At this point might as well pain target on my chest or don't care at all.

[IMJ]

We all hear stories across our lives that we react to with that outer-layer decency as good people. That story where you say "oh man that's awful", whereby that reaction is fairly typical, and usually good enough.

But then once in a while you hear or see a story that deeply hits home and you just don't like it. The kind that goes beyond empathy into true, true pity or internal anguish for someone else. I experienced that kind of feeling one night immediately following 9-11. A story was highlighted where a large group of people where hanging pictures of lost loved ones in New York, asking for information as to their whereabouts. I felt awful for those people because they were out in public, unreasonably looking for their loved ones as the only action they could take. As you watched you couldn't help but think "I'm so sorry honey, but they are gone". I remember it clearly. I hated it.

The story I linked to below is another example of this. I don't like this. God I can imagine how awful this must be. I wish I could help the guy. I feel so bad for him....

Italy has abandoned us": Brother trapped with sister's body in coronavirus shutdown (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/03/12/italy-has-abandoned-us-brother-trapped-with-sisters-body-in-coronavirus-shutdown/23948100/)

[TommyT]

Everyday I am riding in a subway and buses amidst scores of other people. At this point might as well pain target on my chest or don't care at all.

So, you're Canadian then?

[Andrew NDB]

So, you're Canadian then?

He's Russian.

[TommyT]

He's Russian.

They call it a Subway in Russia? I thought they called it a Metro.

[IndigoErth]

Yup, as I predicted, Maine won for the northeast holdout... mine finally joined the party today with four "presumptive" cases at the University down the road. Though I see it looks like we arrived at the party alongside several other state as well. I vote that the last and final holdout in the nation should get a case of masks and hand sanitizer to fight over. Probably Alaska... Just gonna hide up there in those more isolated developed areas like nothing to see here.

I suppose the university should have been a predictable hot spot here. Glad my uncle, who is living with us at present, already retired from his kitchen/cafeteria job there a few years ago.

[Sumac]

They call it a Subway in Russia? I thought they called it a Metro.
It is called "metropoliten" in Russia, yes, but I call it subway here, so people can understand what I am talking about.

[IMJ]

I read an article somewhere that the many of the rich who have bunkers have been bugging out to them. It even claims that they've been taking their doctors with them. What a great gig - being a doctor to the rich. You don't build your own bunker, you just go with your "patient" and bring your family.

I don't know if it's true on a widespread scale, but I'd be there are certain people who have bugged out to their bunker. And why not? Life is short and if you had such a ridiculous thing built then now is your excuse to use it.

[IndigoErth]

If someone wants to be cooped up in there over something like this then it better at least be nice, like some underground resort. :tcool: Otherwise what's the point of that since most people will live through this anyhow. Would make more sense just to use it to rescue some old people and let them stay there until it blows over.

[joe-eyeball]

All schools in my state are now closed for at least three weeks. Good thing my wife teaches at the same school and can watch the kids while I go to work and we don’t have to worry about any type of daycare.

[MikeandRaph87]

All schools in my state are now closed for at least three weeks. Good thing my wife teaches at the same school and can watch the kids while I go to work and we don’t have to worry about any type of daycare.

My state, Virginia declared a state of emergency and all Spring sports are canceled for the season. Word is my district may not return from Spring break 23rd on.

[Andrew NDB]

I read an article somewhere that the many of the rich who have bunkers have been bugging out to them.

Which is fine but... why? The virus isn't coming in the front door with the wind (or is it?). As long as you just lock yourself in your house and don't have guests over and don't take any deliveries you're never going to get the virus. Plus if you're in the bunker that makes your house a nice target for looters.

All schools in my state are now closed for at least three weeks.

6 weeks here in WA, just now. Though how is that going to work? When it resumes, does that mean my kid will be in school through August now?

[joe-eyeball]

6 weeks here in WA, just now. Though how is that going to work? When it resumes, does that mean my kid will be in school through August now?

Word is in Ohio that the school year will end as usual unless the closing extends further than planned. We have the benefit of having only used a couple snow days and spring break is coming up so the kids here will only be missing about 6 or 7 necessary days. Also my wife’s district has all teachers assembling curriculum packets for students to work on during the closing.

[IndigoErth]

Which is fine but... why? The virus isn't coming in the front door with the wind (or is it?).
People believe crazy stuff, I guess. An old guy who is a greeter at BJ's (Costco competitor) told my mom, after she commented on enjoying the rain, that what we really need is snow. Because it will help get rid of the virus.

I'm not sure what snow would do for it that rain would not, nor how long he'd really expect it to thrive in outdoor conditions anyhow no matter the weather. :tconfuse:

[Krutch]

Everyone's on edge at the Production office. We're still in pre-production for the movie we're shooting but Riverdale just shut down, so we all assume our days are numbered.

[IMJ]

Everyone's on edge at the Production office. We're still in pre-production for the movie we're shooting but Riverdale just shut down, so we all assume our days are numbered.

You figure they'd put Pre-Production on the back burner to put resources into something that's currently moving and working already...

Can you explain that logic to me? I don't work in film, so there's probably something there to it, but most of the time someone with money would cut there losses and come back later and stick with what's already moving for the time being.

[Redeemer]

All schools in my state are now closed for at least three weeks. Good thing my wife teaches at the same school and can watch the kids while I go to work and we don’t have to worry about any type of daycare.

Hello fellow Ohioan!!!!!! Yeah I was pretty shocked by the news of schools. They even closed down Ohio State and Columbus State campuses and all classes are to become online classes. Crazy I wish I was still in college :lol: but seriously its probably a big inconvenience to students especially students who might need extra helps from professors or ta like I did.

[CyberCubed]

We're all going to die!

[Leofan26]

My California State has been declared a State of emergency too. Even flipping Disneyland closed dang. When amusement parks close in our State that's when things hit the roof. Why did Trump ban only Europe? Does he think no one can simply jump countries to get into the US? Hell, why ban when he's letting people who went into that country back into the US? Thata not going to help us.

[Leo656]

Well, this MAY end up being the thing that finally kills me, but not necessarily directly.

My boss told me today that he's 99% certain that we're closing the gym permanently by the end of April. I've been there for ten years.

A sh*tty competitor opened up down the road a few month ago, so we had some bloodletting with that, naturally - most people don't go to a gym expecting results, so 9 out of 10 of them will jump to a $10/month sh*t-shack at the first opportunity even though they're definitely not gonna get the help they need at a place like that - but it had mostly stabilized. But with this whole panic about the pandemic, new enrollments have slowed to a crawl, and with no end in sight it looks like everyone is preparing for the worst. My boss recently conferenced with gym owners all over the country, and he says tons of them are taking "early retirement" and shutting their doors because 1. They can't compete with Planet Fitness and their bullsh*t anyway, and 2. They're all going to be bleeding money for as long as this health crisis is going on. Operating expenses at a gym are a huge money-sink, and most of them operate on a razor-thin profit margin (and a lot of gyms actually lose money and shut down after a few years without ever turning a profit at all).

So, since the lease is up in May, and we're looking to lose at least 50 grand between now and then, he essentially gave me my 6-week notice. :ohwell: Like many people, my wife and I don't have any savings and generally live check-to-check. What has me most concerned, though, is that I really can't see any businesses hiring people until the worst of this is over. So I could literally be completely destitute in a few weeks with no cushion under me or any hope of recovery. I can't even count on getting a job in the same field since gyms are shutting down nationwide over this ordeal. But I don't trust that anyone else will be hiring, either. As of now, I'm planning to hold my nose and fill out a f*cking Wal-Mart application and hope for the best, but what are the odds that'll pan out, seriously?

So yeah, this sucks.

[frank_one]

I'm sorry to hear that, Leo. You seems to be a nice person, I wish you and your wife the best.

[Leo656]

I do my best, as quick to anger as I often am. Thanks for your support.

We'll see what happens. It just really sucks, I've been here for 10 years and it wasn't an easy job to get. And the entire industry I'm in is apparently shutting down so I can't even just go to a new gym, at least not until the panic is over. And even then, I have to take classes again and get re-certified (since every gym wants you to have "their" certification), and most places are a lot more "corporate" and quota-minded than the place I've been at generally is... I got into the business to help people, not hit quotas, and I've heard so many horror stories about gyms that fire you in a month or two if you don't hit your projections. Mentally I'm not cut out for that kind of stress. I once had a therapist tell me point-blank that I'm mentally unfit to work, period, because I have so much depressive anxiety, and that I should try and go on disability for stress, etc., but 1. I'm highly unlikely to qualify, and 2. It wouldn't pay me enough to survive anyway.

I just don't like thinking that everything I've fought and struggled for has all been for nothing, for it to all end like this. Like okay, not to disparage Wal-Mart, or anyone who works there, because odds are that's the only lifeline I'll have at all, and even that will only be if I'm extremely lucky, but I didn't go to school and get all the certifications and then put up with everything I've gone through the last decade-plus just to end up doing that, y'know? It's like if that's where my story ends then I should have just started doing that when I was 17 and not bothered aiming higher in the first place, since it's all for nothing anyway.

My whole life is basically a story of, "Don't bother having aspirations; Real Life is gonna come along and make complete sh*t out of every 'plan' you ever have. And there's not a single thing you can do about it." Because Lord knows this isn't the first time something outside of my control has cost me everything.

Ah well. "It is what it is."

[Wildcat]

I’m sorry about that Leo656. I know what money problems are like. Fortunately they seem to work out someway. You should find a way to get through.

So I heard someone at a local school here had this. We live in a small town. I mean we have all the usual franchises and multiple schools but still small.

I have a doctors appointment at the end of the month. Just a check up but now I’m starting to dread it. I keep thinking you just know some people won’t take the proper precautions even for their own safety.

[Andrew NDB]

My work cut me down to 4 days a week instead of 5. Which will be fine for about two months and some change... that's when I run out of sick days to throw at the weekly missing day. There's also the very real concern that they could cut me down from 4 days a week to 0.

[Leo656]

My gut tells me that while the whole thing is very likely going to get worse before it gets better, in the end it will probably pass sooner than people think. Not soon enough, obviously, but I can't see it dragging on indefinitely.

Problem is, in the meantime it's going to do irreparable harm to the global economy. As I said, I can't see anyone hiring until they're sure that the worst is over with, and with so many business either shutting down or downsizing, cutting hours, etc., there's gonna be a whole lot of people feeling the crunch.

I predict a lot of suicides related to financial ruin. I wouldn't doubt it if those numbers end up outnumbering people who actually die from the virus. I'm not gonna lie, it's something I think about whenever my work situation gets uncertain. "Can I even afford to stay alive?" Technically, the answer is no. In the past, I've just gotten lucky, but it's usually only when I'm thisclose to starving to death. So I completely understand why a lot of people might feel like they have no choice, depending on their own circumstances.

In the end, the worst fallout from this whole ordeal may not even be the virus itself. This could take years to recover from, globally. It's not like all the jobs that shut down are going to spring back to life, or all the people who got laid off are going to be able to walk right back in and pick up where they left off. Some will, most won't. I won't.

What a f*cking mess.

[Redeemer]

Listening to the news right now and apparently China is already re-opening and getting rid of population restriction, so it sounds like the worse of it is over for China. Hopefully the rest of the world will turn around even faster. :)

[Coola Yagami]

Listening to the news right now and apparently China is already re-opening and getting rid of population restriction, so it sounds like the worse of it is over for China. Hopefully the rest of the world will turn around even faster. :)

whoa are you serious?

[Andrew NDB]

Even if it peters out I fully expect this to be weaponized. This is an election year.

[Voltron]

Trump dropped the ball. It's a weapon of his own making. This is what happens when you elect someone who openly admits to "stand by nothing".

Anyone else catch that "foreign virus" dog whistle? As though Europe sent it to the US?

Stock market in free fall. No COVID-19 testing kits. No comprehensive leave for US workers to help stymie the spread.

Then he botched his oval office speech to say all trade is banned from Europe. Forgets to say there's caveats for US citizens, and then rushes to Twitter to clear it up?

All this over a "hoax".

Trump is a joke. I feel sorry for anyone who is still being conned by this clown.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Trump is a joke. I feel sorry for anyone who is still being conned by this clown.

Well be prepared to feel sorry for the entire country until November 2024 :tlol:

[lonewarrior20]

Leo, i've been a walmart minion for almost 11 years. If you get hired my first bit of advice is this remember how you treated them as a person, because the customer will think their above the law and you are beneath them. Your going to have to swallow your pride with a smile on your face and do alot that's not in the job discription. And if you apply for management, you will have no life outside of walmart because you are now a cog in their little experiment to see who's going to break. I'm not trying to disparage you, if you think you can handle it good. Although try going for online grocery, it's tough but if your determined you might survive.

[MikeandRaph87]

Do we have a list of states in a state of emergency? Virginia, North Carolina, Maryland, Ohio, California, Washington I know of.

[Papenbrook]

I'm sorry about your current situation, Leo. I hope that it improves.

You have my sympathies.

[Voltron]

Oh, I'm prepared. The 2020 Election between Trump and Biden is going to be a literal circus. It'd be funny if it weren't so terrifying.

You'd think we'd have learned our lesson by now, but here we are.

Maybe I can join the Space Force, hijack a cruiser and colonize Mars or something.

[Papenbrook]

It seems that people are already gathering edible goods and cleaning supplies.

I would be careful if I were y'all.

[CyberCubed]

So far my job hasn’t said anything about shutting down even for a week or something, and I work in Manhattan at the moment. If it does I’ll just relax and play video games and watch shows/movies as usual. I likely won’t get paid for being off so I will be losing money but that’s the breaks I guess.

[Redeemer]

Oh, I'm prepared. The 2020 Election between Trump and Biden is going to be a literal circus. It'd be funny if it weren't so terrifying.

You'd think we'd have learned our lesson by now, but here we are.

Maybe I can join the Space Force, hijack a cruiser and colonize Mars or something.

Yeah I am really pissed people are voting for a bigot like Biden....... If anything this event proves why we need comprehensive "Social Safety Net" This is why we need people like Bernie Sanders who will bring this country into the 21st century.....
Sorry venting bc I hate Biden......

[Redeemer]

whoa are you serious?

Yeah that is what they said. I think that might have been only for the epicenter of China. Other areas might still have restrictions.

Also speaking of China they are now claiming the US is responsible for the virus. They blame the US military for transmitting the disease to China via the World Military Games.

I have a hard time believing this bc this would me the epicenter should be somewhere in the US or at least outside of China.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/13/asia/china-coronavirus-us-lijian-zhao-intl-hnk/index.html

[Candy Kappa]

What if I'm experiencing sudden necrosis and have an odd hunger for human flesh? Will the hand washing save me?

Full body shower in a mixture of gasoline and holy water. You'll also need a Catholic priest to administer a cleansing ritual involving lots of prayer, matches and a small spark.

[Andrew NDB]

Doed anyone have any idea why there wasn't this level of panic in 2009 with the swine flu? Thousands died, even children. We're nowhere near those numbers.

[Voltron]

I'm going to start charging you for this. (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to-sars-swine-flu-mers-zika-2020-3)

Specifically, this part:

The coronavirus outbreak is more severe than the 2009 outbreak of H1N1, or swine flu. That illness infected between 700 million and 1.4 billion people worldwide but only had a mortality rate of 0.02%.

In short: Coronavirus is deadlier. Especially among the elderly. Since the Boomers are all getting up there in age, it's not surprising that some are panicked at the spread of the disease.

Edit:

So I did some more digging.

I also found this (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html)article from the CDC.

The information is pretty dry, mostly statistics. One thing that stuck out was that the swine flu was more dangerous for younger patients than with older.

However, this passage was the one that caught my eye:

The United States mounted a complex, multi-faceted and long-term response to the pandemic, summarized in The 2009 H1N1 Pandemic: Summary Highlights, April 2009-April 2010. On August 10, 2010, WHO declared an end to the global 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic.

We don't have a functioning government at the moment. The idea that we're all self-sufficient and independent from one another is being proven false right before our eyes. We need strong, reliable leadership at all levels of government to prevent these kinds of panics from taking hold again.

The current response has been completely unacceptable. Unfortunately, the current response has been totally predictable as well.

The Trump Administration as well as the GOP has washed its hands of doing anything but enriching themselves. And they've done this to the point of mocking the people they've sworn to serve as we suffer disaster after disaster. Trump had the audacity to throw paper towels at Puerto Ricans after Hurricane Maria devastated the island. Almost 3,000 people died waiting for a response that was completely insufficient.

He held a note card with 5 sympathy talking points to help guide him when shooting survivors visited the White House. Note, this is a man who claims to have a big "a brain" and all the best words. He had to write down "I hear you".

So now the clown comes out and claims that coronavirus is a hoax. Then he back pedals and shuts down travel from Europe. He botches the entire speech giving this information, leading to panicked US vacationers spending upwards of $20,000 a ticket to fly back home before the borders close. He mentioned that all trade from the EU will cease. Trump also said that treatment will be free.

None of this was true, of course. He got every last bit of it wrong. And not in an off-the-cuff speech, mind you. This was written before hand.

So if you want to know why people are so panicked, it's because the person in charge of the national response to this is a buffoon. A moron. A dolt. It's because they're sure help isn't coming.

And a lot of this is his fault. Why? Because when you choose to lead, you choose to take responsibility for things that go wrong.

Next time, vote for someone who isn't a conman. Until then, we get to ride the roller coaster.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

well this sucks

Damn, Leo, that's terrible! Good luck... hope things turn up.

What about working at Planet Fitness? I assume that's a no-go?

[Sumac]

So yeah, this sucks.
I hope things will get better for you.

Russia had banned most travels to Europe now.
Also I've heard we get a doctor to check up on people on my job on the next week.

Trump dropped the ball. It's a weapon of his own making. This is what happens when you elect someone who openly admits to "stand by nothing".
You are reminding me about that Roman senator who was always shouting "Carthage should be destroyed".
Its annoying and stupid.

[AquaParade]

Best wishes to you, Leo. And everyone else going through stressful times. I can relate. I'm doing pretty okay financially, as in I have a bit of stability and can afford some entertainment, but I'm jacked up in other ways lately, so I feel y'all. Stay strong, dromers!

[Autbot_Benz]

more proof how much of a slimy dick Trump is

Seth Abramson
@SethAbramson
·
20h
MAJOR BREAKING NEWS: NPR Source Says Trump Blocked Coronavirus Testing in January to Aid His Reelection Chances By Keeping US Infection Figures Low

[Wesley]

Sorry to hear about that, Leo656. You’re one of my favourite dromers. Hope things work out for you. You seem very articulate.

[Coola Yagami]

Doed anyone have any idea why there wasn't this level of panic in 2009 with the swine flu? Thousands died, even children. We're nowhere near those numbers.

Yet.

We're nowhere near those numbers yet.

I mean we're still in the middle of this and everyone is comparing figures as if this ended. You can't really speak numbers until we're past this and can look back.

[IndigoErth]

People are nuts. Grocery stores are extra crazy today, more than usual. Now that our state has been confirmed I guess they're freaking out a bit. But really, that crowed is WHY this crap will get spread in the first place. :roll: Saw some woman with a frigging tall pyramid of those Lysol/Clorox disinfectant wipes she was trying to carry in a basket, holding this thing as if trying to carry a bolder. Wtf. How many are you REALLY going to use? They'll dry out before she ever even gets through half of them! People like that is why no one else can have any.

I mean, come on... I went to a second of the same chain looking for my wintertime secret weapon. The first and the drug store are wiped out but I got lucky at the last stop. They had two (in the flavor I wanted), but I wasn't a jerk and only got one which should be enough for now and thought it better not to spend so much and someone else can have the other. It's not like stores will never restock again.


Side note... Oh Maine... you didn't want to be left out, followed right behind my DE. West Virginia, Idaho, Alabama, and Alaska... come on, you guys can do it and avoid this thing! lol

Well, this MAY end up being the thing that finally kills me, but not necessarily directly.

My boss told me today that he's 99% certain that we're closing the gym permanently by the end of April. I've been there for ten years.
That sucks, I hope you're able to find something else good that works out well for you. Totally understand, having been through the closing of a job place, too. :ohwell: I just hadn't invested 10 years in it. >.<

Any kind of severance or anything like that at least?

[MikeandRaph87]

Two weeks maybe longer instead of 23rd-27th week off only for me.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GovernorVA/status/1238534082029551616?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

If I see anybody grabbing more than one pack of toilet paper when I go to the store later, I will take them out at the knees.

Fvcking morons.

[IndigoErth]

lol Right? Stores probably never stop getting more of it in since it's always a constant need. People act as if it's going to run out and never come back. :roll: Damn hoarders.

[TommyT]

Doed anyone have any idea why there wasn't this level of panic in 2009 with the swine flu? Thousands died, even children. We're nowhere near those numbers.

Hey, Andrew, no offence good buddy, but dude, you’re being blind.
You’re being that guy. It’s time to drop the act. No, don’t panic, but ffs, stop downplaying the situation.

No matter what your personal criticisms are, it is, what it is.

[Leo656]

Thanks everyone. I was mostly just venting after a bad day, I definitely didn't expect the outpouring of support. Much appreciated.

Re: Wal-Mart - No, I don't much like the sound of it and never have. I know plenty of people who work at the one locally and let's put it like this, they don't WANT to be there. But I might have to do whatever's necessary just to stay afloat, at least temporarily.

Re: Planet Fitness - That would be kinda like Kirk getting in bed with the Klingons after they killed his son, wouldn't it? Like seriously, that sh*thole put TWO of our gyms out of business already and this will be the third one in five years. Plus they don't pay their trainers sh*t; many of their trainers have been moonlighting at our place(s) off and on because, in their words, "PF is a f*cking joke." That's the unanimous appraisal from every single person I've spoken to who's ever worked there. They went there to do their post-certification internship but it's impossible to pick up PT clients in a place that advertises itself as "the place you go when you don't want to spend any money and don't care about results". I average $35-40 an hour per client; they pay you like, $10. I'd be better off flipping burgers.

I'm already annoyed because if we shut down I might have to join them temporarily just to stay in reasonable shape until things improve. Simply because they'll be the only game in town and I wouldn't have the money for a better place. We'll see what happens.

Whatever comes, I hope it's temporary. If this whole pandemic panic passes fairly quickly and things go back to normal, then it should all work out. I would sincerely like to remain in the industry I went to school for and worked the first half of my adult life to break into, rather than do something that wouldn't fulfill me. But I might have to eat some sh*t temporarily, as we all do.

We'll see. One day at a time. Thanks again.

[Redeemer]

If I see anybody grabbing more than one pack of toilet paper when I go to the store later, I will take them out at the knees.

Fvcking morons.

I wish we had a like function on the forums :lol: If you go to jail I will bail you out bud ;)

Doed anyone have any idea why there wasn't this level of panic in 2009 with the swine flu? Thousands died, even children. We're nowhere near those numbers.

Bc the Swine flu had .2% mortality rate. The Corona-virus has 4-6% mortality rate. So 2 in a thousand vs 6 in a hundred.

[Coola Yagami]

I got an office type job so they already started work at home policies starting as soon as this Monday.

It was so fast my head was spinning. Like not much after The Orange announced state of emergency, they shut down all the schools in my state and we went from possibly looking into working from home to starting Monday.

I'm going to hold out but will spend the weekend getting the house ready just in case it gets to the point where it gets mandatory. I'm trying to work out where I'd stick all the equipment.

[IndigoErth]

Not sure any jobs are affected here, but just as fast they've already now closed all schools in the state for two weeks.

Now... locally on this end I can understand. Being that all four known cases were at the university and it would not be unexpected for any students or staff from there to be over this way sometimes for some shopping or whatever... it makes sense. As for areas further away, in the other two less populated counties south of ours where no cases are reported (yet), I dunno, sounds a bit hasty to shut them down too.

[Wildcat]

It’s sad there are people who genuinely think everyone is overreacting. Like those characters in a lot of movies that don’t take a problem serious enough. That’s scary.

I don’t mean buying bulk. One person complained all the shutdowns were unnecessary. Even before this week people were still taking vacations and leaving the country. This was already a well known problem.

If a highly contagious dangerous virus doesn’t stop you from going on trips then nothing will. I mean leisure trips. Ones that can clearly be put on hold. Refund or not.

[Roseangelo]

I work at a military school that is still holding classes and (so far) I still need to physically show up every day.

My karate classes are also still happening per the usual schedule.

And all of the Pokemon Go events that I was overwhelmed with this month have been cancelled.

While I did have to buy some extra food and TP to fend for myself against the people going overboard, not much has actually changed for me.

[Coola Yagami]

It’s sad there are people who genuinely think everyone is overreacting. Like those characters in a lot of movies that don’t take a problem serious enough. That’s scary.

I don’t mean buying bulk. One person complained all the shutdowns were unnecessary. Even before this week people were still taking vacations and leaving the country. This was already a well known problem.

If a highly contagious dangerous virus doesn’t stop you from going on trips then nothing will. I mean leisure trips. Ones that can clearly be put on hold. Refund or not.

Thank you!

I keep asking myself, if THIS doesn't get taken seriously... like what will? Like what kind of super black plague ebola monster AIDS do we need to be unleashed into the world so some of these people actually stop handwaving this and say 'oh ****, this is serious'.

Now my heart does out to people that risk losing their jobs, risk getting sick and are either up there in age or not healthy, or ones that live around elderly folks, those I agree and feel for... but the ones that are only upset because their sports event or anime con is cancelled, grow up and face the fact that until this blows over this is your new reality.

[Wildcat]

Ya. It’s like you really think these major industries would close out of pure panic? You’re just gonna brush off the world telling you about a severe health threat?

[Andrew NDB]

From NPR:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/03/809904660/why-the-death-rate-from-coronavirus-is-plunging-in-china?fbclid=IwAR1pNaXtcT_YUjzcn64u9DsazJI1ZLSCC2V F5KZXqJVT6nTL107t9Hhukew

[Wildcat]

Good to see but it’s still uncommonly dangerous.

It seems some of the shutdowns are set for a month at the moment. Like the NBA will update then. What’s expected in a month? A possible vaccine? I read they’d start trials in April but not anyone can get one.

[Voltron]

From NPR:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/03/809904660/why-the-death-rate-from-coronavirus-is-plunging-in-china?fbclid=IwAR1pNaXtcT_YUjzcn64u9DsazJI1ZLSCC2V F5KZXqJVT6nTL107t9Hhukew

Did you read this?

1. The fatality rate was initially reported at 3%-4%.

2. The rate dropped outside of Hubei because of increased understanding of the virus and lower population leading to better preventative measures. It fell not because of an initial miscalculation, but because of later efforts to force it down.

So what does this mean? It means China acted, and it acted pretty harshly. It enacted the largest quarantine in recorded history.

Other countries caught up very quickly and started to pitch in with the effort. Germany provided tests to other countries. Schools shut down. Hygienic prevention rose.

Perhaps most importantly: people knew that healthcare was accessible.

Contrast this with the US, where we not only pay more than any other country in the world, but we receive less (https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2019/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries). This is after the God King promised to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something much better (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1388/repeal-obamacare/).

Add on top of this that Trump fired the pandemic response team (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/), leaving us with our pants down.

In lieu of this, he put Mike Pence in charge of the response effort. This is the same Mike Pence who oversaw a disastrous HIV outbreak (https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/pence-moved-slowly-in-combating-hiv-outbreak/) in his home state. HIV transmission, mind you, is very well understood and manageable with minimal effort. Pence botched it, and now he's heading up the national effort to a fast spreading virus we don't know the specifics of.

So your boy is letting us all down, Andrew. Again. Hell, he may even have it. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/congress-closes-u-s-capitol-to-the-general-public-11584026289)

Dumb ass can't even keep himself safe. And you think we should be listening to this guy?

There's a plague running unchecked through the country, and the man at the helm stared directly into a solar eclipse.

Yeah, panic doesn't seem like an unreasonable response from the masses.

But don't let that stop you from going to a Trump rally and demanding more winning. I mean, Puerto Rico's destroyed. We have no replacement for Obamacare. The stock market's in free fall. Most government positions aren't staffed. There's no Space Force. We've locked down our borders with a handful of countries that can still fly here through other non-banned countries. The President does a poor job of hiding the fact he wants to bone his own daughter. . . I could go on, really, but I'm starting to gag thinking about it.

[Sumac]

I think Voltron went completely insane from stress.
Maybe he needs some vacation? How about a ticket to North Korea or Hubei?

[lonewarrior20]

Man its getting crazy in the stores. The hoard is cleaning us out. And yes I do mean hoard, what else would you call a group of people taking everything not nailed down and I seen a few of em looking at our selection of crowbars in the hardware section.

[Candy Kappa]

Stupidity spreads faster then the freaking virus. People are hoarding flour, baking yeast and toilet paper. And a whole lot of antibac but stores are still filled with soap lmao.
They're also hoarding Paracetamol meds but not the other brand, so we're out of the desired brand of meds and still have the other one for fever and pain reliever but it's not good enough for these jackwagons

Even though, there's no food shortage and the government is saying don't hoard.

My mom is under quarantine as one of her coworkers tested positive for covid-19.
She called me and we had a laugh over how people was emptying the store she works on, like they sold over 3 Eur-pallets of toilet paper that was supposed to be half price sale next week, and people where hoarding antibac and bulk confectionery.

There's something tragically hilarious that people are buying in mass antibacterial and pick'n'mix candy at the same time.:lol:

[Voltron]

Sorry to hear about your mom, Candy. Tough breaks. I hope that gets sorted out soon.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
I love how much you think about me, Sumac. I know I'm doing a good job when someone with the name "Sumac" finds me poisonous. :lol:

I'd like to hear your take on this, but you seem too busy calling me names to make a valid counter-point. That being a point other than saying "Voltron is stupid!"

To be fair, one hardly needs to be made. I understand that you've never harped on something before. Your calm, clinical and unwaveringly fair appraisal of political issues has been something I've set my clock by.

Oh, wait. You're the one who loses their mind every time there's anything even smackingly liberal anywhere in the world.

Like here in the She-Ra thread!

Its part of the cultural shift to the left, where people should be rewarded for mere existing and putting any efforts into anything is considered to be evil.

Or this gem in the Joker thread that wasn't by any means outlandish or crazy.

I mean, in a manner of speaking incels are losers and Joker is a loser and since left can't into nuances they compare everyone to everyone for even most superficial reasons, but it is still ridiculous.

Or this one from the Black Widow thread where you went off on the left again.

Or as a typical left, you want everything to be done for you, instead of doing it yourself?

Or this one in the Classic Simpsons episodes pulled thread

Golden words.

Now, I wish people on the left would have listened to it, because, they are apparently very much OK with banning legacies of the past years , because, it doesn't fit their modern "cultural norms".

But outside of this and literally every other time you open your mouth, you've always been level headed, polite and credible.

[Redeemer]

I think Voltron went completely insane from stress.
Maybe he needs some vacation? How about a ticket to North Korea or Hubei?

Really Dude...... Come on now...... Don't be butt hurt bc Voltron pointed out facts or bc his ideals do not align with your world view/political views.

[CyberCubed]

The worst thing about this is people hoarding toilet paper and all the stores being sold out. I only have 2 rolls of toilet paper left, what if I have to take a giant s*it later today?

What am I going to wipe myself with when I run out? Toilet paper is serious business.

[Leofan26]

Stupidity spreads faster then the freaking virus. People are hoarding flour, baking yeast and toilet paper. And a whole lot of antibac but stores are still filled with soap lmao.
They're also hoarding Paracetamol meds but not the other brand, so we're out of the desired brand of meds and still have the other one for fever and pain reliever but it's not good enough for these jackwagons

Even though, there's no food shortage and the government is saying don't hoard.

My mom is under quarantine as one of her coworkers tested positive for covid-19.
She called me and we had a laugh over how people was emptying the store she works on, like they sold over 3 Eur-pallets of toilet paper that was supposed to be half price sale next week, and people where hoarding antibac and bulk confectionery.

There's something tragically hilarious that people are buying in mass antibacterial and pick'n'mix candy at the same time.:lol:
Your stores still have soap? Mine are all out of it daily. We have to get up extra early to get some. Where are you from?

I wouldn't take our President's words very serious either, a month ago he basically said it was a hoax caused by the Democratic Party now suddenly he's concerned when it's too little too late. How many months have we been warned of this? Yet no.

[IndigoErth]

The worst thing about this is people hoarding toilet paper and all the stores being sold out. I only have 2 rolls of toilet paper left, what if I have to take a giant s*it later today?

What am I going to wipe myself with when I run out? Toilet paper is serious business.

Jump in the shower and wash off? Unless you're at work and the only place not closed down yet by then... Then I guess you have my sympathy for both situations.

Really, maybe check places people might think of less. Office supply stores such as Staples sometimes have a section with the basics like that.




Side note, looks like West Virginia took the cold, er, gold. Are they best in the nation at washing their hands? Or just best at retreating up into those hills where they can hide in isolation? Perhaps they build a border wall to keep it out. Someone check on that. Or maybe they're just lousy at testing.


It’s sad there are people who genuinely think everyone is overreacting. Like those characters in a lot of movies that don’t take a problem serious enough. That’s scary.

I don’t mean buying bulk. One person complained all the shutdowns were unnecessary. Even before this week people were still taking vacations and leaving the country. This was already a well known problem.

If a highly contagious dangerous virus doesn’t stop you from going on trips then nothing will. I mean leisure trips. Ones that can clearly be put on hold. Refund or not.
Of course the only bad part (okay one of many bad parts) is that just like storms, if it doesn't turn into as big of a thing as people (or "the evil MSM that hyped it up!") fear, then there's going to be many idiots who think we shouldn't take the next thing serious at all, so you can't win. Hopefully this one does not pan out here as badly as people fear, but either way it's definitely a test for how well we will be able to handle something worse if such a thing comes along one day. Or god forbid this one mutate and come back with a greater vengeance next winter.



edit: Other side note... Can I just say that I sort of wish it was stated that regular fabric or whatnot is good at blocking the virus so that we can just use it as an excuse to go around looking like ninjas? :lol:

[Vicky82]

I am really pissed off with all this panic buying. I can't get any toilet roll, i've only got a few left. Delivery slots for our weekly shopping are going fast, luckily I can still get a few bits in Sainsburys, as my work place is next door.

As I serve customers, I am worried catching this virus because I live with my Dad, so I don't want the virus passed on to him, as he's in 70s with a medical problem. I am constantly washing my hands a lot.

My Mum's care home is on lock down, so we can't visit her for a while, which I can understand because they need protecting from this virus.

[frank_one]

I am worried catching this virus because I live with my Dad, so I don't want the virus passed on to him, as he's in 70s with a medical problem.Same here. We need to be careful for the old people we love.

[IndigoErth]

Also: socialism and other left ideologies are ideologies of pathetic worthless losers.
Read line, immediately "heard"...
https://i.gifer.com/4rky.gif
"So nehh!"

[TommyT]

Yeah, let's take stuff from successful people and give to ****ing worthless losers who never produced nothing more important than **** in the their bathrooms. Also let's put in charge people who's biggest accomplishment was their ability to lick ass of their superiors.

What a way to build an amazing and healthy and productive society.
Oh wait. It is not. ;)

Instead have a gangster dictator for life.

[Andrew NDB]

Instead have a gangster dictator for life.

You think Trump is a "gangster dictator"?

[frank_one]

He's not a dictator for sure.

[Redeemer]

You are not good at using such tactics, because, it looks like a kid who is trying to use "big adult" words without understanding their meaning.


Projecting.
I do not get mad about people on Internet, especially nuisances like you.
I do not even hate you. I find you amusing.




I think you mean *transference, projecting is something totally different. I wouldn't call someone out for not understanding words they are trying to use when you do it yourself....... :ohwell:

seriously man please stop instigating.....

Anyways I am seriously worried about the coronavirus. We have at least 1 confirmed case, but we are projected to have 12,000 infected in my county. My county has about 1.2 million people give or take. I am not so concerned about myself, but for my elderly grandparent I help take care of..... n:cry:

[Coola Yagami]

He's not a dictator for sure.

No, he's just a dick.

[Sumac]

Voltron once again abusing his powers, eh?
He is definitely not mad or anything, right, guys? Right? :lol:

Oh well:
Really Dude...... Come on now...... Don't be butt hurt bc Voltron pointed out facts or bc his ideals do not align with your world view/political views.
Its not about political views, it is about repeating the same thing over and over again like a broken robot. OK, we got it, he doesn't like Trump. No need to repeat it on every page again and again.

I love how much you think about me, Sumac. I know I'm doing a good job when someone with the name "Sumac" finds me poisonous. :lol:
Far from it. I just find you annoying. Like a little fly in plate full of jam.
Constantly buzzing, flapping its useless little wings in an impotent rage. Helpless to escape, dreadfully meaningless at its core, yet annoying everyone all the same.

Oh, wait. You're the one who loses their mind every time there's anything even smackingly liberal anywhere in the world.

Like here in the She-Ra thread!
I don't think that guy who was literally caught several times in nearly catatonic rage and generally foams at his mouth every time, when he is directly being called out and also abuses his moderation power to silence when people question him, can call out anyone about "losing their mind". :lol:

As for "valid counter-point", I don't live in America, so I can't say how things are going inside. And relying on corrupted reports from either side is meaningless, in my opinion. Esoecially when those rumors are spread by untrustworthy people like you.
Thus I rely on common sense and don't trust wild rumors.

But outside of this and literally every other time you open your mouth, you've always been level headed, polite and credible.
You could had a point, if I was constantly returning to those threads and making the same comments again and again, however, I usually state my opinion and go away.

Well, at least this time you've made a point about something that actually had happened somewhat, unlike last time, when you was arguing with ghosts in your head.
This is a progress...I guess? ;)

Also, socialism sucks. Its ideology of worthless parasites.
And, no, it's not a choice between socialism and dictators. You can have a normal country without either and Trump is not a dictator by any means.

Also, Russia seemingly about to be hard-quarantined.

[Redeemer]

Voltron once again abusing his powers, eh?
He is definitely not mad or anything, right, guys? Right? :lol:

Oh well:

Its not about political views, it is about repeating the same thing over and over again like a broken robot. OK, we got it, he doesn't like Trump. No need to repeat it on every page again and again.


Far from it. I just find you annoying. Like a little fly in plate full of jam.
Constantly buzzing, flapping its useless little wings in an impotent rage. Helpless to escape, dreadfully meaningless at its core, yet annoying everyone all the same.


I don't think that guy who was literally caught several times in nearly catatonic rage and generally foams at his mouth every time, when he is directly being called out and also abuses his moderation power to silence when people question him, can call out anyone about "losing their mind". :lol:

As for "valid counter-point", I don't live in America, so I can't say how things are going inside. And relying on corrupted reports from either side is meaningless, in my opinion. Esoecially when those rumors are spread by untrustworthy people like you.
Thus I rely on common sense and don't trust wild rumors.


You could had a point, if I was constantly returning to those threads and making the same comments again and again, however, I usually state my opinion and go away.

Well, at least this time you've made a point about something that actually had happened somewhat, unlike last time, when you was arguing with ghosts in your head.
This is a progress...I guess? ;)

Also, socialism sucks. Its ideology of worthless parasites.
And, no, it's not a choice between socialism and dictators. You can have a normal country without either and Trump is not a dictator by any means.

Also, Russia seemingly about to be hard-quarantined.

no.... its pretty obvious that you are emotionally attached to your opinions and ideals.......

Also do you know what socialism is????? Bc Voltron is advocating social welfare, not socialism. Also social welfare is why America became a super-power, specifically public school education. America was the first major country to have mandatory public education for children giving us an educated workforce that was far better economically and proficiently. A health country needs a balance of both "Free-market" and "Social programs", you can't have one or the other without absolute failure.

I think the big sticking for many people on the left is that fact that we lose millions of dollars a year due to sickness and disease. We lose money bc a worker misses work time, companies become compromised with a weakened work force and probably worse of all is the ridiculous burden health expenses that is brought on from health insurance and premiums. A universal healthcare would actually strengthen our economy by giving us a healthy work force and also giving people more access/expendable money.

Bottom line is Voltron is not advocating for Socialism, but for Social Welfare programs.

[IndigoErth]

Is it mean to say that I hope this guy (https://news.yahoo.com/17-700-bottles-hand-sanitizer-155735689.html) and others like him get that virus? They kind of deserve it, though, hell, I'm not sure it's even enough punishment. Stupid greedy price gougers. Amazon shut you down? Oh well!

If hell existed I'm sure there would be a special place for people who wipe out the shelves of as many stores as they can drive to and try to profit off of things like that during the outbreak of an illness that some are dying of, esp old people who may be on a limited income and most at risk. Doesn't help that he even tries to justifying it as if he's some hero doing a public service.

[Sumac]

And how many people live off of Social Welfare without needing it actually?
I've heard that it is a real problem in US, to the point where some people do not work and get money for nothing.

I don't mean that there shouldn't be welfare, but probably the process of selection should be more careful.

Also, in Petersburg there is some religious celebration and hundreds of people are kissing the same "sacred ****". Most of them are old. Natural selection in action. :x

[IMJ]

The real worst thing about this is going to be in about a month when the supply chain is hung up and all the shelves stay empty from the panic buying now. Interface this with when the viral outbreaks ramp up and that's when we are going to have real issues.

[Andrew NDB]

Bottom line is Voltron is not advocating for Socialism, but for Social Welfare programs.

If that was true then he needn't say another word... we already have plenty of social welfare programs. Coming out of our ears.

[IndigoErth]

So my work is affected a little because of the virus. We can't telecommute so I wasn't really expecting it to be unless any of our stores close for a bit. But my supervisor called about what's shifting around a little. Main thing is my 2-visit per week store will be just one visit for a few weeks. Though they'll be more lenient on the dates of getting some of the product up, so that's fine by me.

If nothing else it mixes it up and makes life interesting. I'm hoping people will start going into hiding more and make the stores quieter.

I almost do wish the country would just shut down entirely for a couple of weeks. You know what that would probably do for productivity after people return to work after getting a 2 week forced "staycation" at home? lol Just would suck for all those of us who would probably not be getting paid.


And how many people live off of Social Welfare without needing it actually?
I've heard that it is a real problem in US, to the point where some people do not work and get money for nothing.

I don't mean that there shouldn't be welfare, but probably the process of selection should be more careful.
It really varies by state though. Some are more limited in what they even offer or have stricter requirements than others, so I wouldn't say that it's all "problem" areas across the board. (Nor assume that the problem spots are all "liberal.")

[TigerClaw]

I work at this place that makes windows and doors. So I handle a lot of pieces of aluminum and use some of the machines to drill and punch holes on them. Working there my hands get greasy and dirty while working on that stuff. What sucks is you also have tiny pieces of aluminum that gets stuck on your shirts. pants, hands, arms and legs because they cut them. and that stuff is flying everywhere. You wear the goggles to protect your eyes. But that stuff still gets on you.

I don't know how safe that stuff is considering the Coronavirus. I know you get it by contact. But anyone who has it might touch the things your handling and you would get infected too I think.

[Redeemer]

If that was true then he needn't say another word... we already have plenty of social welfare programs. Coming out of our ears.

?????? What??????? :lol: We actually don't compared to other 1st world countries. Also we aren't talking about adding social programs we are talking about expanding and improving current ones. Specifically medicare and medicaid. We spend more on health care than any other country in the world and we still don't provide insurance for a large number of individuals in the country
.https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-average-wealthy-countries-spend-half-much-per-person-health-u-s-spends
A universal healthcare plan should actually save the US money, by eliminate insurance companies and their extreme profiteering.

The other program is universal college education. We already have a social program for college education(FASFA). We essentially would be expanding on it. America already proved how valuable education is and how essential it is for a strong economy with universal public education.

At this point I don't think most of you understand what true Socialism is.....

[Leo656]

Work hours cut back. Most clients are planning to come in this week but a few are afraid. My one client who's a doctor came in yesterday, and is planning to come in later this week, but everything is day-by-day.

I live with people on fixed income, so we're not gonna starve, but it's gonna be tight and things are gonna be tense. I also really like my job, most of the time.

Sigh. I just really, REALLY hope things get back to normal soon. Sure doesn't sound like it, though. Some states are practically shutting down completely. Supermarkets cutting back hours, restaurants closing down, people still hoarding... my gut tells me that it's gonna get worse before it gets better, and it's already pretty bad.

I can't help but wonder how many businesses are in a similar situation as mine, where the lease is up in two months and they're not making any revenue whatsoever. Nobody's really thinking about it right this minute, but mark my words... in a month or so, they will. And "stay home, wash your hands" isn't gonna solve THAT particular problem.

I don't know. I just don't know.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

At this point I don't think most of you understand what true Socialism is.....

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQxJ4FSYK01Mnx4X9wiQb1lgFRxjGk n-iEG4UfwXH4dZ6NwYTma

[The Deadman]

CDC recommends large gatherings be cancelled for the next 8 weeks
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1239357433383960576

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Well, my company just shut down local sites because of our overseas site finding out somebody was COVID positive or whatever.

Sigh.

Guess I'll be working from home until civilization is nothing but ashes, or humanity regains rational thought.

Take your bets on which happens first.

[MikeandRaph87]

Well, my company just shut down local sites because of our overseas site finding out somebody was COVID positive or whatever.

Sigh.

Guess I'll be working from home until civilization is nothing but ashes, or humanity regains rational thought.

Take your bets on which happens first.

Welcome to the club. My school year could be extended with this 2 to 4 week hiatus.:tgrumble:

[TigerClaw]

Well, my company just shut down local sites because of our overseas site finding out somebody was COVID positive or whatever.

Sigh.

Guess I'll be working from home until civilization is nothing but ashes, or humanity regains rational thought.

Take your bets on which happens first.
Or when half of humanity turn into Mutants.

[joe-eyeball]

I’d be willing to bet that within the next 48-72 hours the whole country will be on some sort of Italy like lockdown. I hope this doesn’t take place but I can see this happening. The dominoes keep falling here and this is where we’re headed I believe.

[IndigoErth]

Tell me... Why is it that reusable masks, like those bike mask types and whatnot that have replaceable filters in them, can't have a frigging N95 filter option?? How hard would it be to make it of the same kind of material? :tconfuse:

They all seem to be PM 2.5 rating at best, which to my understanding is only good for blocking particles larger than the virus. So while those would look nicer, I guess they'd be of little help.

Will be hitting Walmart tomorrow and will check again, but I'm sure there will be nothing. As bad as that damn store is at restocking things, lord knows we probably won't see any more of the disposables until August. :trolleye: Though I feel that Walmart should get in a big shipment and set a strict limit.

If my stores (that I hit for work each week) are busy... well, I guess I'll just try not to breathe. >.> Walmart and BJs that are the only ones for some distance so that gets people from a wide area, then Dollar Tree with it's sometimes less savory customer base... Yeah, wish me luck.


Up to 7 cases locally, though all still related to the University; most not students. But who knows where they live in the area and do they come to this Walmart over here that I have to spend time at... yeah, probably.

The hospital ran a free drive through test for people with symptoms Friday. Hopefully that won't result in more confirmed cases. But supposedly they checked about 500 people.



Or when half of humanity turn into Mutants.
The way people act anymore, it could be for the best. lol

[IMJ]

You can always buy the N100 respirators from 3M with the replaceable canisters and walk around like Bane.

[Roseangelo]

I ordered reusable facemasks from Amazon on Jan. 25 and they actually shipped last week. A little shocked, honestly.

Of course, they are probably from China.

[Redeemer]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQxJ4FSYK01Mnx4X9wiQb1lgFRxjGk n-iEG4UfwXH4dZ6NwYTma

:lol: Yes, great example I am glad someone knows socialism.... :lol:
Cuba is a great example of actual socialism. The Cuban government OWNS and OPERATES most industries including the production of goods. No one in this thread is advocating for the US economy to become owned and operated by the federal government. What people are wanting and advocating for is Social progression not Socialism.

Here is a website that defines the difference between the two.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism#examples

[Voltron]

Here is a website that defines the difference between the two.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism#examples

Finally! Someone understands the difference between social safety nets and stealing the means of production.

The only problem is that the people we're discussing this with have no interest in understanding the difference. To them, this isn't about solutions or compromise, it's about winning something.

What they win is anyone's guess. There's no trophy or gold medal for proving that the current problems within the American system are completely unsolvable.

It gets even more frustrating when the same parties turn around and bemoan their financial woes. This comes hot on the heels of calling people on low or fixed income losers, moochers, and lowlifes. I'm certain they don't see themselves in that assessment when they make it.

That's something that divides me on the topic. On one hand, social programs are necessary for the well-being of society. On the other hand, the people it would help are passionately arguing against the implementation.

Again, I'm certain they don't understand the implication of arguing against it. As it stands, Americans are chained to their jobs not just for money, but for the benefits they provide. Losing a job would be and is a calamity for many of us. Suddenly without insurance, without steady income or access to food and shelter, we are left scrambling and begging for whatever we can get.

We're slaves. And people who are against the construction of universal benefits imply they are happy to be slaves. They are happy to fight like stray dogs for scraps from a rich man's table. And if you point this out, they'll stubbornly deny any of it.

But look around now. A panic has set in from a disease that most places have found manageable though distressing. The market crashed. Jobs will be lost. People will suffer.

Are we to believe that they're losers for this? Should we point the finger at people and say "this is because you're worthless" and let them die in the street? I'll say this: I'd be ashamed to call America the Greatest Country on Earth were we living in what amounts the 21st century Irish Potato Famine or Holodomor.

In the end, the point here isn't to convince the disbelievers and the naysayers. They happily serve in golden chains believing they'll be given their crown tomorrow. We have to work to mobilize the masses unafraid of making that tomorrow happen through the hard work, dedication, and sacrifice necessary to do it. When we join the rest of the modern world, perhaps then we can truly start to make America Great Again.

[Andrew NDB]

Looks like my whole state is shutting down restaurants and all "entertainment venues."

[Voltron]

I got your entertainment for you!

Turns out Trump tried to buy the company researching a vaccine! Word is he wanted it exclusively for the US! (https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-confirms-that-donald-trump-tried-to-buy-firm-working-on-coronavirus-vaccine/)

That's some Saturday morning cartoon villainy right there.

Things are pretty ok where I am, though. We got social programs like affordable healthcare and a population that gives a **** about the country that ensured everyone got up to speed on this thing pretty fast. Nothing's shut down except the schools.

Think I might go out for pizza or Indian or something. I'll take pictures for the rest of you guys! Ha! Ha! Ha!

In all seriousness, though, even without a quarantine I'm cautious about going places. There's a tourist spot not far from here that actually has fauna roaming the streets because of dwindling sight-seers. It's going to be an issue because the city makes a living on the animals there, so it's illegal to harm them in any way. Meaning that they more or less have free reign of the town until the tourists come back and the city can corral the animals into their usual safe zones.

[newfan]

My country has closed nothing yet (think just mass gathering events cancelled) and self isolation is only one week rather than two, there apparenly will be a £1000 fine for failure to isolate if you have the virus in todays news. Still people are panic buying though. I was glad to see in one my local supermarkets that check out staff were taking excess items off people, limit of 2.

[MikeandRaph87]

Starbucks,Chik fila, KFC, and Taco Bell all are going drive thru only for the time being.

My state decided to go virtual after a two week period. It means a lot of phone calls and explanations to parents. I wonder if state standardized tests will be cancelled. Scores will be in the toilet and it will not be the teachers fault.

[Voltron]

Starbucks,Chik fila, KFC, and Taco Bell all are going drive thru only for the time being.

My state decided to go virtual after a two week period. It means a lot of phone calls and explanations to parents. I wonder if state standardized tests will be cancelled. Scores will be in the toilet and it will not be the teachers fault.

Are you a teacher, too? Because if there's anything I've learned working in the public education system: it's always the teacher's fault.

Good luck weathering the storm. I just got word that schools in my home state are considering closing for awhile, too. I'm sure the kids are delighted.

[joe-eyeball]

Are you a teacher, too? Because if there's anything I've learned working in the public education system: it's always the teacher's fault.

Good luck weathering the storm. I just got word that schools in my home state are considering closing for awhile, too. I'm sure the kids are delighted.

My wife’s school has gone completely virtual now and the Governor has already stated publicly that school may be done for the year altogether. It crazy that this is happening and I feel bad for seniors that won’t get to experience the lead up to graduation or kids that were involved in their sports. On a positive note her district is doing completely free bag lunches five days a week for all students in the community.

[Vicky82]

My country has closed nothing yet (think just mass gathering events cancelled) and self isolation is only one week rather than two, there apparenly will be a £1000 fine for failure to isolate if you have the virus in todays news. Still people are panic buying though. I was glad to see in one my local supermarkets that check out staff were taking excess items off people, limit of 2.

Yeah the panic buying is stupid. I know someone who works in Asda and they told me they stopped a person from buying 48 bags of sugar.

[IMJ]

Earth needs to reopen before all of the companies start going out of business from shutdowns and this turns into the Great Depression part 2. I know we aren't there yet, but let's face it - we are truly teetering on the brink here.

[MikeandRaph87]

Well, its not going to reopen for awhile as Canada is closed to non-citizens.


Meanwhile Romney proposes a bill to emulate the 2008 recession giving 1k to all adults.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/romney-proposes-giving-dollar1000-to-every-american-adult-as-coronavirus-response-measure/ar-BB11grJE?ocid=ientp

[IndigoErth]

You can always buy the N100 respirators from 3M with the replaceable canisters and walk around like Bane.
:tlol: Only if it somehow actually got that bad and everyone else does it too. But then I'm sure they'd also become hard to find.


I ordered reusable facemasks from Amazon on Jan. 25 and they actually shipped last week. A little shocked, honestly.

Of course, they are probably from China.
That crossed my mind last night when I was looking around online. I wish Amazon sellers showed the location they ship out from. What good is it if something from China takes a month to even arrive? :ohwell: (Hopes yours don't.) And of course everything I looked at on eBay that claims to be shipped from within the U.S. all have not so great feedback percentages, and some not being truthful about what they are.

People seem to just be braving it around here though. Saw only one person with a mask, guess they were one of the lucky few to have/find one.



I got your entertainment for you!

Turns out Trump tried to buy the company researching a vaccine! Word is he wanted it exclusively for the US! (https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-confirms-that-donald-trump-tried-to-buy-firm-working-on-coronavirus-vaccine/)

That's some Saturday morning cartoon villainy right there.
Good grief. If he does get that virus he kind of deserves it for that as much as those greedy price gougers do...

[TigerClaw]

Idris Elba has tested positive.
https://twitter.com/idriselba/status/1239617034901524481

[IndigoErth]

That's a shame. He's young enough hopefully he'll be fine. But definitely puts more of a face on it when celebrities start catching it. :ohwell:

Though this is supposedly doing lung damage even to those young enough to otherwise do okay with it. Hopefully no one here ends up with it. Don't need any Turtle fans getting infected.


Local restaurants, taverns, and bars being limited only to take-out and delivery as of tonight. Eight local cases now; the newest one the first not associated with the university.

The first four cases apparently all got it from a "social gathering" in Princeton, NJ. Dammit, Jersey, I knew it. lol

[victory_angel]

The counties of San Francisco, Santa Clara, San Mateo, Marin, Contra Costa and Alameda are all on Shelter in Place orders until April 7th. That may be true for other affected places in the US as well.

I'm in Contra Costa County but at the border edge of Alameda County, so close I have the same zip of a Neighboring town in that county.

[Andrew NDB]

All Regal movie theaters closed starting tomorrow.

[TommyT]

Hey guys, it's fine. It's just the flu.
Nothing to worry about.

[sdp]

The markets tank Everytime Trump tries to fix things. Someone in his administration needs to stop him, this isn't "owning the libs" anymore, it's causing enormous problems.

[Leo656]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/wheres-your-messiah-sb1dhy.jpg

Sorry, I just couldn't help it. :lol:

I can't be the only one who reads news articles MOSTLY for the Comments sections. And it amuses me that to a lot of people, the reaction to the pandemic and subsequent panic has been, "HERE'S what your abortions and gay marriage gets ya!"

I think this situation conclusively proves that either there IS no God, or He truly hates us all. But it's absolutely one or the other.

[Roseangelo]

Still nothing in my life has changed. Work per normal. Karate per normal (although much smaller classes and basically just non-contact drills). Social life still nonexistent.

But I have a feeling CA is going to get wholly locked down similar to the Bay Area within a few days.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I heard San Fran ain't doin' so good. Probably just the start.

[Roseangelo]

Yeah, I heard San Fran ain't doin' so good. Probably just the start.

My county still has zero cases. But the county just north of us is up to nine. So it's coming...

[Leo656]

If this has taught us anything, it's that just the idea that something bad MIGHT happen is enough to make humanity sh*t their collective pants.

[Andrew NDB]

Rather than paraphrasing, a post from a friend:

The Governor of New York seems to want the Federal Government to create a National Lockdown Protocol that dictates what all states must adhere to. Then a reporter asked if he has shut down all schools statewide in a similar show of uniformity, to which he replied: "we will." Meaning he hasn't yet. But damn it Trump, give us Leadership. Like a dictator.

Aren’t there allot of folks claiming Trump wants to be a dictator? If the Feds do as NY is asking, are we going to hear about Dictator Trump everywhere?

But more importantly, in my mind anyways, isn’t every State a Sovereign State? Why would any State choose to give up that Freedom? Cuomo says if NY shuts down all its bars but New Jersey doesn’t, then everyone will go to the bars in Jersey!!!

Yeah. That’s right. That’s a different State. They should be allowed to govern themselves. The decisions you are making for your State, as the Governor of your State, should be the decisions of that States Leadership. If your people get pissed about those decisions, maybe you shouldn’t have made them, as you are representing them. I think it’s weak to be looking for the Federal Government to make that decision for you, especially since your main desire for it seems to be to either impose your will upon other States, have a means to deflect the outrage of the people in your State toward DC (Trump), or most likely, both.

If a State decides to not shut down schools or business or whatever, that’s their Right as a Sovereign State. If they choose to disagree with whoever is spewing the doom and gloom that’s causing panic across our Nation, that’s their Sovereign Right. I’m not saying it’s a good or bad decision, that’s not the point. The point is, those decisions are or should be in the hands of the Leadership of each individual Sovereign State. That we are not run by a Dictator.

I’m also saying that if the Feds DO impose some kind of tyrannical demands, all the outrage that does come from it will NOT be directed at the State, but at Trump. I’m saying that all the media and Trump haters will have the ammunition they’ve always wanted: Dictator Trump exercising his dream of Tyranny upon us all.

But of course, the pristine morality of our media would never do something like that. They would never use a National Emergency as a political weapon to attack President Trump.

I’m just crazy.

I agree with... 85% of that. But Trump stuff aside, yeesh. Scary times indeed. I'm not certain on a state level they are being handled or focused in the right ways (possibly not at all, though I admit to not being well versed in the complexities of pandemics), but yes, they should be handled on the state level.

[Leo656]

Federal policy trumps state policy, especially in times of crisis. Small-scale and unrelated example: Weed (and CBD) is "legal" almost everywhere, but they can still bust you for either if they just wanna f*ck with you. Right or wrong, "fair" or not, that's how it works. "State Policy" ultimately means jack sh*t in a Republic. We've seen that in cases both great and small.

I can be fairly libertarian myself, but frankly, with most of the carriers not even displaying any symptoms - but just as likely, if not more so, to pass it on to someone who's more at risk - I feel like "better safe than sorry" might not be so bad for a little while. Like at least for the next few days.

The whole States' Rights debate can carry on once the uncertainty settles. Right now, people want to lynch you for spitting on the sidewalk. Not the time to ague that "We have the RIGHT to congregate en masse, you 'fraidy cats!" Create the illusion of security for a few days so things can get back to normal faster. We do it Your Way, and then one person sneezes, and this sh*t starts all over again.

Can't agree with you on this Right Now, even if I appreciate the principle of the thing. Fact is, last week they said Everything's Fine. It clearly was not "fine". For right now, we need to calm the panic by creating at least a veneer of security even if it is just a smokescreen. It'll calm people down, if nothing else, which will in turn get us back to Real Life that much faster.

[Andrew NDB]

It clearly was not "fine".

True, but it was kind of... made to be not fine.

There's no perfect solution to anything like this but if it was me... special incentives, compensation and workplace protections for working people over 60 or with pre-existing stuff to stay home until the pandemic largely blows over. Obviously, big public gatherings discouraged, at least from the aforementioned groups being in attendance temporarily. Lots of awareness made in public ("if you are over 60, especially over 70, there's a good chance this CAN kill you!"). Otherwise, business as usual.

[Leo656]

So... assume the risk until it gets REALLY Bad? Because just because it hasn't, it still might. And then where would we be?

Some wrestling promoters ran shows this weekend. They're drowning in bad press now and getting blasted even by people in the business because "All it takes is One Person" and the risk simply isn't worth it.

Nah, can't agree, although I admire your optimism. Sometimes, an ounce of prevention really is worth a pound of cure.

If a week goes by and things start to swing positive... awesome. I hope so! But there's just no sense in doing any less than what's being done, right now. I'm MORE frustrated about it than the next guy, believe me... but if for no other reason than to quell the panic and fear... it's necessary. And if it DOESN'T get better in a few days, well... then they were right to do this.

Frankly, I'm a No-Risk person in just about all things, and this is where you and I simply differ. Because in my experience, the higher the risk, the harsher the landing. We can't afford to softball this one.

Let's just cross our fingers and hope it's temporary. All we can do.

[Andrew NDB]

So... assume the risk until it gets REALLY Bad? Because just because it hasn't, it still might. And then where would we be?

I guess it depends on perspective. If we know, and we pretty much do, that if you're not over 60, have no pre-existing conditions... this won't kill you. In fact, you may not even show symptoms or only ever show mild ones. You may not even know you had anything to begin with and then you're better.

I mean, what's worse? Tanking the economy and putting us all out of work and possibly quarantined for an untold period of time that could extend for months with a full recovery to what was as an unknown... or a good portion of us do get sick but get better like from the regular flu, while enacting protections for the percentage of people in the age range/pre-existing conditions set that are actually the ones at risk of dying and awareness (be particularly mindful of touching stuff and be hygenic and don't be hugging grandma... in fact limit your interactions with older people for a while)?

It's entirely possible I'm way off -- there are many complexities and layers to something like this. I just ponder the quandary on a very basic level.

[Leo656]

I agree in theory and principle, but again, "It only takes one." My wife, for example, isn't taking this whole thing very seriously, either, but I doubt she wants to be the one to accidentally catch it, give it to her grandmother, and then it kills her. It's EXTREMELY possible, and that's one of the many reasons why people are choosing caution over principle. At least for Right Now.

It's why I skipped working the show on Saturday. I'm not incredibly scared of catching it, but I cough, and coughing makes people nervous. ONE person gets sick, guess who'd be blamed for it, even if I didn't have it? I'd never get booked again. I would've been used, but I was told "We don't want anyone with even the slightest of symptoms to come to work, because All It Takes Is One." And then they got blasted for running the show, anyway, mostly by other wrestlers, none of whom are overly concerned for their own health, but for the health of others. Nobody wants to PASS it, even if they themselves aren't going to be at risk from it.

Same with the gym. We were prepared to stay open, but last week even the owner said this was probably gonna happen. Because even though we scrub the place with bleach and disinfectant, All It Takes Is One. And then we're liable to get sued no matter what the law says. So our hands are tied, well-scrubbed as they may be. One lady I was training today was supremely annoyed that I kept wiping down the equipment after she used it - which is ALWAYS standard policy, anyway - "MY hands are clean!" she insisted. "Not my call, not my policy. All It Takes Is One." She didn't get it. Well, she can be mad. Everyone else in the gym thanked me for doing my job.

Big Picture.

[Papenbrook]

And, of course, various, high-profile CEOs are leaving their positions of work, so as not to be blamed for the economic depression that will, almost certainly, arrive.

Cowards.

[Andrew NDB]

And, of course, various, high-profile CEOs are leaving their positions of work, so as not to be blamed for the economic depression that will, almost certainly, arrive.

Cowards.

We're already there.

[Papenbrook]

Still, they are evading their responsibilities, punishing their employees, and taking their hoards of cash with them.

I feel no sympathy for them.

[Andrew NDB]

I know I'm just blowing wind and I'm not a vector for this or that. And I'm only saying this on a level of surprise, particularly as the state I'm in is the capital of infections... but in my real life interactions and even my FB interactions of 1100 friends... I haven't seen one post of anybody that has it or knows anyone that does within that.

Obviously this is a thing. But does anyone on this board know anyone that has? I'm not pretending this is an imaginary thing, only wondering numbers.

[Mayhem]

So far I know two people who have it, hopefully they will both recover okay. One of them is the wife of the missus' boss, so we are keeping an eye just in case he got it and thus... you can do the maths.

[Candy Kappa]

But does anyone on this board know anyone that has?

I know the name of the first Norwegian who got it in Italy as he was interviewed yesterday (he has recovered). I know the faces of a couple of people who are sick and are blogging their days being isolated in their homes.
I know that a coworker of my mom was tested positive, hence why my mom is in quarantine. A friend of mine might have it in the UK, but she was denied testing as she was "healthy" enough to walk with aid even though she's in the risk group.

In Norway we have 1365 people confirmed having the virus, where 66 is put in hospital care. 3 people have died so far (over 2000 people have died in Italy and over 3000 in China).

Norwegian airlines have laid off 90% of their workforce and a lot of companies are laying off people.

Our government is also taking precautions with closing schools and giving people that have been laid off full pay for 20 days, and self employed get 80% of their average income the last 3 years - topping 600k NOK ($59k).
And they are urging students to travel back home from countries they are studying in that have a crappy developed health services and collective infrastructure (USA was used as a specific example)

[IndigoErth]

Rather than paraphrasing, a post from a friend:
Yeah, I can't really say I agree with your friend. While I'm not sure total lock down might be necessary everywhere all at the same time depending on the local and nearby situations for a given county/area/region, this isn't really the time for the "'Can't tell me/us what to do!" BS. Nor the "If they're not then why should I/we??" stuff.

That's also especially problematic for those of us who are in small or somewhat small states and all those towns at the boarders of larger states because nothing is stopping it from crossing into other states with infected people.

As it is, most (maybe all) cases in my area originated with out of state sources. (Though if a couple of them got it in this state they still got it third person from the original three that got it out of state.) And between NY, as mentioned, and NJ, PA, and my state DE, for example, the way the states are situated with Jersey neighboring all of the other three, that was just asking for trouble with the amount of interstate travel that happens in the general region.

If anyone started crying "dictator," ironically it would probably be Trump's supporters doing it more, particularly that subset who do seem to crave some authoritarian nonsense at least prior to all this. Though everyone on all sides just needs to shut it and cool their asses as it would only be a temporary situation, it's not like it's a total change in the way of life and not being done for any reason other than that virus. I think people can all together try to deal for a bit in order to try to stop this thing in its tracks and, for some, quit panicking as if it's changing their way of life forever.


The only issue with making it "business as usual" for all of us who are young enough that we'll likely be fine is that even if WE are fine, most people still have older relatives (or others they come into contact with) or those with underlying conditions who might NOT be if you accidentally pass it on to them. And since people without severe symptoms are not priority for testing and most probably would not bother, someone could very well think they have some other regular cold, no big deal, when they really are in fact carrying COVID-19 and end up giving it to others who may in turn wind up in the hospital or die. And who wants to be the cause of that? :ohwell: Imagine being that parent who has to work and be out there in the world then accidentally bring that virus home and passes it to their child who has an immune condition or is fighting cancer...

Then again... this is supposedly also causing lung damage to younger people who are otherwise fine. Which, theoretically, could set someone up for not being so fine next time some related or other bad virus tries to run like wildfire?




In other news... My mom is going to start hating going anywhere with me... and I'm gonna hate her for making me use up too much of my hand sanitizer on her. :tlol: Sanitizer that I need for work, dammit. Luckily I do have more.

We stopped at Burger King on the way home after a trip to a store. So she's thinking nothing of it handling the soda dispenser. *hand santizer* She drinks some...then goes to top it off before we leave. *omg wtf more sanitize* We leave and she just goes for the door handle instead of considering pushing with her arm or shouldering it. *are you kidding me -- more santizer in the car* Says she's trying not to take it too seriously or you'd drive yourself crazy. What? NO. Take it seriously. You can deal with "crazy" for a bit! It's not like she's 69 and diabetic or anything, and lives with a daughter who needs to be able to stay well and do her job. :roll:

Bad enough just hoping that the people who work at BK are virus-free...


edit: Hah, check this out. A friend of my mom's friend who works abroad as a teacher was living in Italy. She decided to return to the U.S. and flew home. The entire way, including at least one change of plane... never once did she ever encounter a health screening. Not even in Italy. Not a clue if she's self-quarantining, but I seriously hope so.

[Voltron]

The Governor of New York seems to want the Federal Government to create a National Lockdown Protocol that dictates what all states must adhere to.

I couldn’t find any sources on this. I found some reporting Cuomo criticized the federal response to the outbreak (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51902681).

Then a reporter asked if he has shut down all schools statewide in a similar show of uniformity, to which he replied: "we will." Meaning he hasn't yet. But damn it Trump, give us Leadership. Like a dictator.

Aren’t there allot of folks claiming Trump wants to be a dictator? If the Feds do as NY is asking, are we going to hear about Dictator Trump everywhere?

Here’s the reason I love you guys: I don’t even have to argue. Your friend just called Trump a dictator. (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/trump-admits-that-coronavirus-crisis-could-stretch-into-july-or-august.html)

Not that I agree. I don't think Trump is a dictator. But he should be careful making wild claims like that.

But more importantly, in my mind anyways, isn’t every State a Sovereign State? Why would any State choose to give up that Freedom?

No. We had a war about this, Andrew. People died.


If a State decides to not shut down schools or business or whatever, that’s their Right as a Sovereign State. If they choose to disagree with whoever is spewing the doom and gloom that’s causing panic across our Nation, that’s their Sovereign Right. I’m not saying it’s a good or bad decision, that’s not the point. The point is, those decisions are or should be in the hands of the Leadership of each individual Sovereign State. That we are not run by a Dictator.

Again, your friend already called Trump a dictator.

I’m also saying that if the Feds DO impose some kind of tyrannical demands, all the outrage that does come from it will NOT be directed at the State, but at Trump. I’m saying that all the media and Trump haters will have the ammunition they’ve always wanted: Dictator Trump exercising his dream of Tyranny upon us all.

Most of the rant makes no sense. This guy displays impressive lack of knowledge about US history and civics. The Feds would be exercising the power, not the state. Regardless of who asked, it the fact that the Feds acquiesced would make them complicit in the action.


I’m just crazy.

I wouldn't say crazy. I'd say ignorant.

I agree with... 85% of that.

Then you're 15% right.

they should be handled on the state level.

Again, lack of civics, Andrew. The Federal Government collects taxes FROM STATES. It is the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO HELP.

[Roseangelo]

My county in California has a shelter in place order effective at midnight tonight. Basically we're all to stay at home and not congregate, with the exception of doing essential business (groceries, med care, banking, etc.). For the next THREE WEEKS.

Ugh.

I am set up to work from home, so I am thankful that my job isn't otherwise impacted, but I am going to go stir crazy.

[Andrew NDB]

My county in California has a shelter in place order effective at midnight tonight. Basically we're all to stay at home and not congregate, with the exception of doing essential business (groceries, med care, banking, etc.). For the next THREE WEEKS

Doesn't seem very enforceable, though.

[TommyT]

I know I'm just blowing wind and I'm not a vector for this or that. And I'm only saying this on a level of surprise, particularly as the state I'm in is the capital of infections... but in my real life interactions and even my FB interactions of 1100 friends... I haven't seen one post of anybody that has it or knows anyone that does within that.

Obviously this is a thing. But does anyone on this board know anyone that has? I'm not pretending this is an imaginary thing, only wondering numbers.

Dude, this is getting embarrassing.

Here's a description of what's coming.
80% of us will get sick. Thats the low end. Most of us will live, a small percentage will die. Bye bye Grandma, Grandpa, maybe Mom and Dad. They are all coin flips. 50/50.

And being sick, while you will survive, everyone who has had it, says the tough part is the four days to three weeks, where you have to concentrate on how to breath.

But that isn't the scary **** my contrarian friend. You see it's the aftermath that we really need to worry about. The fibrous tissues in your lungs, that make daily tasks excruciating. It's the bacterial infections it will open you up to. The residual potential kidney and/or liver disease.

There's a boat load of reasons to be cautious as ****.

But by all means, keep pretending its all just politics. People are absolutely choking on respirators just to prove to everyone that orange man bad.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Voltron]

I can't believe Trump is going to give away $1000 to all those moochers and losers! What filthy socialist! :x

I'm finally convinced: this money should be coming to hard working people like ME. If you weren't smart enough to find a job that wasn't affected by Covid 19, then you don't deserve help.

This is America where you work for what you get. And if you get coronavirus, then it's probably because you were too poor and not worth keeping alive anyway.

I'd ask Ayn Rand to save me, but I already did that myself being the capable, hard working person I am.

However, if you had the foresight to call for social safety nets long before the Racist in Chief declared war on the "Chinese Virus" which he already cured, then this should only serve to strengthen our resolve.

Remember, this is an election year. There are morons who are going to go out amidst all of this believing the nonsense I copy-pasted above from an alt-right genius who helped get us in this mess.

Meanwhile: Here's a website that helps you find local food banks to donate to if you can or, if need be, go to should you need help (https://www.feedingamerica.org/).

I hope you're all well and remain so during this absolute disaster.

[Andrew NDB]

I can't believe Trump is going to give away $1000 to all those moochers and losers! What filthy socialist! :x

My only wish is that all the "Not my president!" people mail the check back. Because why shouldn't they?