Unrest in Ukraine

[Andrew NDB]

This piece is a bit interesting:

https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/598952-zelensky-says-ukrainian-political-parties-linked-to-russia-banned

Apparently Zalensky banned all political parties (claiming they're all friendly to Russia) from Ukraine except his party? And then killed all the news outlets except one?

Eh. It sort of makes sense during this but... isn't that a pretty awful precedent? I don't see a lot of talk about it.

Imagine if Biden decided one day, "Only the democrat party is the party of non-nazis... all other parties are hereby banned! And there can only be CNN from this moment on!" That may not be apples to apples and obviously we're not in the middle of getting invaded, but is it that far off of a comparison beyond that?

[Bahamut810]

Imagine if Biden decided one day, "Only the democrat party is the party of non-nazis... all other parties are hereby banned! And there can only be CNN from this moment on!" That may not be apples to apples and obviously we're not in the middle of getting invaded, but is it that far off of a comparison beyond that?

I sort of chalk that up to a difference in culture.

It would be insanely difficult for him to try that in the USA. Barring the multitude of lawsuits and the inevitable removal from office (I cant imagine enough democrats being in agreement with this to stop whatever legal process there would be for that)... Other farther things that people are falling over themselves to be afraid of would happen.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah, commies are too blame for most problems Russia faces today, but Nikolay II was the reason why they ended up in power in the first place.

The Russo-Japanese War in 1905 was a world showcase for how poorly equipped Russia was militarily and being manipulated by Gregori Rasputin blinded by the need for a healthy male heir. He may have been a decent family man, but he did not help his cause with multiple public gaffes. Alexander III undid most reforms of his own father forming an autocracy which Nicholas II inherited and initially attempted to emulate. Nicholas II had a lot working against him because of the situation in which he inherited more than anything.

Reports are suggesting the resistance of Ukraine is heading the conflict to a stalemate. Without military reinforcement I would not have thought it would be possible.

[neatoman]

This piece is a bit interesting:

https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/598952-zelensky-says-ukrainian-political-parties-linked-to-russia-banned

Apparently Zalensky banned all political parties (claiming they're all friendly to Russia) from Ukraine except his party? And then killed all the news outlets except one?

Eh. It sort of makes sense during this but... isn't that a pretty awful precedent? I don't see a lot of talk about it.

Imagine if Biden decided one day, "Only the democrat party is the party of non-nazis... all other parties are hereby banned! And there can only be CNN from this moment on!" That may not be apples to apples and obviously we're not in the middle of getting invaded, but is it that far off of a comparison beyond that?

... How about this, what if Biden did that during an invasion from the UK, where the UK justified it because the US used to be part of the British Empire and the UK was somehow the bigger power? I know that's an absurd scenario but that's more or less what the American version of this war would be.

[Andrew NDB]

Reports are suggesting the resistance of Ukraine is heading the conflict to a stalemate. Without military reinforcement I would not have thought it would be possible.

Not a good place to be in, though. If Putin has his back against a wall with Ukraine and has nothing to show for the invasion... that's when the tactical nukes will come out.

And we still won't do a thing. Just send more rocket launchers and speeches.

... How about this, what if Biden did that during an invasion from the UK, where the UK justified it because the US used to be part of the British Empire and the UK was somehow the bigger power? I know that's an absurd scenario but that's more or less what the American version of this war would be.

Yeah, if the UK and US sizes were flipped that's just about right.

[ChosenOne]

This piece is a bit interesting:

https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/598952-zelensky-says-ukrainian-political-parties-linked-to-russia-banned

Apparently Zalensky banned all political parties (claiming they're all friendly to Russia) from Ukraine except his party? And then killed all the news outlets except one?

Eh. It sort of makes sense during this but... isn't that a pretty awful precedent? I don't see a lot of talk about it.


In practical terms, this is the same as sending the entire Slytherin House to the dungeons during the Battle of Hogwarts. Just a good idea in the current juncture, especially considering the country's recent separatist/civil strife which makes some people more likely to hinder than help the war effort. The opposition will thank Zelensky when there's still a country left to bicker over.

[Sumac]

This piece is a bit interesting:

https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/598952-zelensky-says-ukrainian-political-parties-linked-to-russia-banned

Apparently Zalensky banned all political parties (claiming they're all friendly to Russia) from Ukraine except his party? And then killed all the news outlets except one?

Eh. It sort of makes sense during this but... isn't that a pretty awful precedent? I don't see a lot of talk about it.

Imagine if Biden decided one day, "Only the democrat party is the party of non-nazis... all other parties are hereby banned! And there can only be CNN from this moment on!" That may not be apples to apples and obviously we're not in the middle of getting invaded, but is it that far off of a comparison beyond that?
Can't say I've heard of it, due to prevalent positive cover of Ukraine in anti-Putin media, but I think it can justified right now, since the last thing they need are some political activists sabotaging attempts to save Ukraine from the inside. And given that FSB-Russia had a large role in the Ukrainian politics it makes sense.

Of course, there is a question what will happen after this conflict is over, but right now it is not that important.

The Russo-Japanese War in 1905 was a world showcase for how poorly equipped Russia was militarily and being manipulated by Gregori Rasputin blinded by the need for a healthy male heir. He may have been a decent family man, but he did not help his cause with multiple public gaffes. Alexander III undid most reforms of his own father forming an autocracy which Nicholas II inherited and initially attempted to emulate. Nicholas II had a lot working against him because of the situation in which he inherited more than anything.
Indeed, but the blame is on him in the end - he had plenty of advisors who attempted to sway him in a more "democratic" direction and he ****ed it up every single time until it was too late. WW1 didn't help matters, of course.

Reports are suggesting the resistance of Ukraine is heading the conflict to a stalemate. Without military reinforcement I would not have thought it would be possible.
I am afraid it is temporarily - Russian army is still bigger and they simply have more weapons.

Not a good place to be in, though. If Putin has his back against a wall with Ukraine and has nothing to show for the invasion... that's when the tactical nukes will come out.

And we still won't do a thing. Just send more rocket launchers and speeches.
Once again, do you suggest starting nuclear war?
I agree with the sentiment, that NATO, US and Europe look very flaccid in this situation, but on the other hand, its not some shithole in the desert they are dealing with, sadly. It is a country with nuclear weapon and given state of Russian politics, it won't take much before nukes fly.

So, what suggestions do you have? How they can interfere without kickstarting nuclear parade?

[ChosenOne]

Ol' Joe's diplomatic skills and ability to keep his mouth shut in crucial moments rival those of Little Carmine from The Sopranos. Who knew?

[Sumac]

Ol' Joe's diplomatic skills and ability to keep his mouth shut in crucial moments rival those of Little Carmine from The Sopranos. Who knew?
What did he said this time?
Is that about his line where he called Putin "butcher"?

[Andrew NDB]

Once again, do you suggest starting nuclear war?
I agree with the sentiment, that NATO, US and Europe look very flaccid in this situation, but on the other hand, its not some shithole in the desert they are dealing with, sadly. It is a country with nuclear weapon and given state of Russian politics, it won't take much before nukes fly.

So, what suggestions do you have? How they can interfere without kickstarting nuclear parade?

No, not suggesting nuclear war. I have no suggestions at this point. It's too late. The idea was to prevent the invasion from even beginning but our administration is weak so it happened. Nothing to be done now.

[ChosenOne]

What did he said this time?
Is that about his line where he called Putin "butcher"?

Basically called for Putin to be forcibly removed from power. Not that I disagree but there's a time and a place for that, and it's not when a diplomatic compromise seems within reach.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Lets see how Biden plans to remove Putin from power, and bring about the great russian revolution. Spoiler alert: Its more sanctions, and saying something in a speech which totally won't be used as a justification by the Russians.

Russia is gonna fall anytime now. Democracy and love will soon reach the motherland!

[ChosenOne]

Lets see how Biden plans to remove Putin from power, and bring about the great russian revolution. Spoiler alert: Its more sanctions, and saying something in a speech which totally won't be used as a justification by the Russians.

Russia is gonna fall anytime now. Democracy and love will soon reach the motherland!

Please, let's not have any more of those.

[Mayhem]

He didn’t talk about removing him from power, just that he shouldn't remain in power. Which could be done via people close to Putin for example. But in terms of diplomacy, yeah not the sort of thing to be saying in a speech perhaps!

[Vegita-San]

imagine if trump said that?

Sounds like something someone might have done on the 6th...hmm....pre emptive training?

[ChosenOne]

He didn’t talk about removing him from power, just that he shouldn't remain in power. Which could be done via people close to Putin for example. But in terms of diplomacy, yeah not the sort of thing to be saying in a speech perhaps!

Via people close to Putin removing him from power. Forcibly, because it won't happen any other way. There's just no way to sugarcoat what Biden meant, especially not in the eyes of a paranoid former Cold War spy.

imagine if trump said that?

Sounds like something someone might have done on the 6th...hmm....pre emptive training?

Someone did: Mike Pence. And here we are, knee-deep in sh*t because of the snowball he got rolling.

[Sumac]

Basically called for Putin to be forcibly removed from power. Not that I disagree but there's a time and a place for that, and it's not when a diplomatic compromise seems within reach.
With that I kind of agree.

It might have been done on purpose, though, to keep Putin's paranoia up. Since he already went past line, where he could have been considered "necessary evil", its just an attempt to throw him off balance and make him do more mistakes.

[Andrew NDB]

With that I kind of agree.

It might have been done on purpose, though, to keep Putin's paranoia up. Since he already went past line, where he could have been considered "necessary evil", its just an attempt to throw him off balance and make him do more mistakes.

I've had that thought. Like, Biden doesn't say anything that the teleprompter doesn't tell him to, and he barely manages that. And even then he'll say stuff he's not supposed to like "I'm going to get in trouble now" (wow, what a strong president).

But yeah. Like maybe we had Biden say something like that and had the White House immediately redact it. Purpose being to make Putin go, "Uh oh, the old feeble man let slip their real plan and the White House didn't want it revealed... I better back down." As in almost a Trump simulation, on purpose.

Maybe.

[Sumac]

At this point it is obvious that Putin won't back down.

[neatoman]

At this point it is obvious that Putin won't back down.

What if everyone he relies on get sick of him?

[CyberCubed]

I really don't know what people want Biden to do. He's not going to send physical troops down to Russia to fight. This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan, the U.S. is not going to go to physical war with Russia. It would be disastrous for all sides. There's really nothing he can do but create sanctions and deliver funds to Ukraine like what he's doing. Anyone who thinks U.S. going to war with Russia is a good thing is out of their minds.

[Sumac]

What if everyone he relies on get sick of him?
I am not sure if it happens.

By starting invasion Putin put all his elites under fire - on the West all of them would be branded as criminals, so giving up their leader will destroy them and their reputation basically in ruins anyway. As such they have no reason to do it, not yet. Even as they are losing money and reputation, they still can preserve their freedom in Russia.

And I am not sure, what Putin can do to alienate them so much it will lead to a coup. It doesn't help that he culled pretty much everyone among elites who could challenge him for position of a leader, so there won't be a singular leader who elites could choose to replace him.

Its basically bunch of groups with their own interests and Putin serves as their mediator / arbiter. Which is why there is a big chance, if Putin dies, his regime will collapse to pieces and his elites will lose power in internal struggle, which might quickly become external.

All in all, Russia's ****ed.

I really don't know what people want Biden to do. He's not going to send physical troops down to Russia to fight. This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan, the U.S. is not going to go to physical war with Russia. It would be disastrous for all sides. There's really nothing he can do but create sanctions and deliver funds to Ukraine like what he's doing. Anyone who thinks U.S. going to war with Russia is a good thing is out of their minds.
This is an idea, I hope more people could understand.
Constant chanting "US should do more" is annoying, since they are already doing everything they can short of military intervention, which, of course, is highly unadvisable, when you deal with country with nukes.

[joe-eyeball]

I really don't know what people want Biden to do. He's not going to send physical troops down to Russia to fight. This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan, the U.S. is not going to go to physical war with Russia. It would be disastrous for all sides. There's really nothing he can do but create sanctions and deliver funds to Ukraine like what he's doing. Anyone who thinks U.S. going to war with Russia is a good thing is out of their minds.

Except that Putin has never really made it a secret that he wanted to invade Ukraine for a long time and had been fortifying the border with resources for a potential invasion. Meanwhile many nations and the USA included reacted as if the whole thing was just posturing. Perhaps if the threat had been taken seriously then with either sending resources and fortifying Ukraine’s defense with a combination of diplomacy this could have been avoided?

I would also add that what people definitely DO NOT want Biden to do is say stupid crap that can very easily be taken as a direct threat by a Madman running the country of one of our longest rival and enemy nations!

I’m not saying that anything mentioned above would have absolutely worked but the world definitely deserves fair criticism for the clear inaction that took place. And America will always take the brunt of it and rightfully so. Also Biden practically dared Putin with his stupid statement regarding that he wouldn’t take action as long as it’s is a minor incursion. I don’t think unfair at all to question Biden’s leadership through this crisis as he has certainly looked weak.

[Sumac]

Except that Putin has never really made it a secret that he wanted to invade Ukraine for a long time and had been fortifying the border with resources for a potential invasion. Meanwhile many nations and the USA included reacted as if the whole thing was just posturing.
If US was taking it just mere posturing they wouldn't publicly said that Russia prepares for an invasion. Also, AFAIK, EU and US were helping Ukraine in some capacity.

But, of course, no-one in their right mind believed that Putin will do it. Since he already did similar posturing last year and overall situation reminded of North Korea with their constant threat of sending nuclear rockets who knows where.

If anything it was seen as even less probable, because outcome of this invasion was obvious to everyone: no matter success in Ukraine, Russia would come out with a ruined reputation, economy and Putin would essentially become person-non-grata for the rest of the world.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I find it interesting how the Russians, despite having held onto the occupied territory for so long, have not made any signficant territorial gains recently despite saying that they have the necessary resources to take over Ukraine. What is the Russian gameplan to take over all of Ukraine, and how long will it take to enact?

A mere 80 years ago, expansionist empires could invade multiple countries within the span of months, even weeks in some cases. Times have changed for sure, and Russia obviously doesn't want to suffer the same fate as said expansionist empires did in the past, but its still so weird to see the largest country on earth stalling with an invasion of a much smaller and militarily inferior country.

Wonder how much of Ukraine will be under Russian hands in say, 5 months?

[Sumac]

I find it interesting how the Russians, despite having held onto the occupied territory for so long, have not made any signficant territorial gains recently despite saying that they have the necessary resources to take over Ukraine. What is the Russian gameplan to take over all of Ukraine, and how long will it take to enact?
It seems main plan was never to take over Ukraine as a whole, since Russian economy would not been able to sustain it.

The initial plan was to take over Kyiv and install a puppet government. How it would have worked, considering that it would have be toppled down as soon as Russian forces would left, no-one knows.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The initial plan was to take over Kyiv and install a puppet government. How it would have worked, considering that it would have be toppled down as soon as Russian forces would left, no-one knows.

Ironically, I think that the very people that Putin used as a justification to invade and "Denazify" Ukraine are the ones who might be installed in occupied territorities to keep things in order once the Russians are gone. "The enemy of my enemy is friend" I think will be a huge factor in how the war plays out.

[CyberCubed]

Also remember most people living in Ukraine were in fact from Russian families or descended from people living in Russia. It's basically just Russian's killing their own people.

[Sumac]

Also remember most people living in Ukraine were in fact from Russian families or descended from people living in Russia. It's basically just Russian's killing their own people.
It is not the case.
Ukrainians have a lot of Russian relatives its true, though.

[Sumac]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wagner-group-182626006.html
It reads like one of Putin's associates funds a mercenary group called Wagner Group and is using it for violence against civilians while not claiming association.
It was known for quite a while, so nothing new here.
Also, its called Wagner, because its leader is allegedly big fan of Nazis.
:roll:

[CyberCubed]

So the war is still going, what's it even like living over there? Do regular Russians fear of being drafted into the military? Or that some Russian cities could be the target of Ukraine attacks as "revenge" or something.

I mean I just can't imagine living in either country right now.

[Sumac]

So the war is still going, what's it even like living over there? Do regular Russians fear of being drafted into the military? Or that some Russian cities could be the target of Ukraine attacks as "revenge" or something.

I mean I just can't imagine living in either country right now.
There are plenty of stories from Ukrainian side.

[Andrew NDB]

More about the "mobile crematoriums."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-crematoria-mariupol-new-auschwitz-mayor

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Will we get a sequel, 80 years later, with another person?

Gd3RNgy4eCw

6F-DQssohnA

[Andrew NDB]

Julian Lennon sings famous communist song to support Ukraine:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/11/julian-lennon-sings-imagine-concert-ukraine-war/

[Sumac]

I wouldn't call it a Communist song per se.
Depends on a context really.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I wouldn't call it a Communist song per se.
Depends on a context really.

Imagine is just a song that lets us all reflect upon thre three things that causes so much trouble: Economy, politics and religion.

NiBr31IU8UI

[1987]

Biden sending another $1.7 billion to Ukraine

https://www.news18.com/amp/news/world/us-announces-additional-1-7-billion-aid-to-ukraine-statement-5542357.html

Remember that time when Hunter Biden had shady dealings in the Ukraine and then his dad got to be President and then the US started sending the Ukraine an uncomfortable amount of money? That was so weird. Surely unrelated.

https://i.imgur.com/Vrxuf0M.jpg

How much money did Hunter Biden and his family steal from the people of Ukraine?

While you're struggling to pay for groceries and gas today... Biden gave another $1.7 billion to Ukraine.

America last

[Sumac]

Someone call an exterminator - we have a crazy roach here!

[FredWolfLeonardo]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-million-army-russia-weapons-b2120445.html

Zelensky has vowed to raise an army of one million to take back everything the Russians have captured.

Oleksii Reznikov has also appealed for more Western weapons, saying that around 100 Ukranian soldiers are being lost everyday.

[Coola Yagami]

Someone call an exterminator - we have a crazy roach here!

Yeah, Biden.

[Sumac]

Yeah, Biden.
Nah, man, those are Illuminators! From 1650 year! :oops:

[1987]

George Soros mentions Biden was deeply involved with Poroshenko of Ukraine

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jillian22Betsy/status/1547773396267675654

Soros: "We have a Foundation in Ukraine and it happens to be one of our best foundations. I also want to mention that there is one person who was very deeply involved in Ukraine and that's Biden..."

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Bill Clinton has expressed his view on the last 30 years

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/bill-clinton-nato-expansion-ukraine/629499/

[1987]

Joe Biden is the most corrupt President in U.S. History!

https://i.imgur.com/MZZ3h0S.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/GZd2SFO.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/5b3SgcY.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/NDohwcb.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/LZFPYjd.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/pafXKDP.jpg?1

[ChosenOne]

But muh president with the most votes ever!

[neatoman]

I found this, in case it's hard to follow how much territory Russia has captured, the answer seems to be because they barely have, the war has been crawling very slowly since April. Basically nothing has been accomplished, which in turn seems to be because the Russian military is cartoonishly incompetent. There are various factors as to why that is but the main ones seem to be corruption on all levels and a dependence on poorly trained conscripts.
LZuEkKZ8ABM

The sad thing is that seems to contribute less to making the war end soon and more to making it seems like a giant waste. When it ends, Russia will maybe have annexed the Donbas but very little else and maybe even less than than the full Donbas, if any of it. It makes me really sad to think that all this seems to accomplish is destroyed Ukrainian settlements and Russians living under an even worse regime than they did last year.

[CyberCubed]

They basically lost thousands of lives on both sides for no reason at all. Not to mention people in Ukraine who had to flee the country or were misplaced.

The whole thing is a colossal waste of time. This isn't 1945 anymore where you can just wage war on the country next to you...we're in 2022 for goodness sakes.

[Sumac]

When it ends, Russia will maybe have annexed the Donbas but very little else and maybe even less than than the full Donbas, if any of it. It makes me really sad to think that all this seems to accomplish is destroyed Ukrainian settlements and Russians living under an even worse regime than they did last year.
When it ends, Russia most likely will cease to exist in its current form.

[neatoman]

When it ends, Russia most likely will cease to exist in its current form.

Are you suggesting there would be breakaway regions in Russia or that Russia would get a new constitution?

[Sumac]

Are you suggesting there would be breakaway regions in Russia or that Russia would get a new constitution?
Without working army and economic benefits other republics wont' have a reason to stick with this unbalanced mess.

[CyberCubed]

Doesn't it basically depend on whoever replaces Putin when he dies?

[ChosenOne]

I'm surprised no one's talking about the NPP that was nearly blown up.

[Sumac]

Doesn't it basically depend on whoever replaces Putin when he dies?
That's the thing: no-one can replace him. He build a system tailored for himself and put his personal friends on all key positions in the country.

In case of his "resignation" his replacement will be forced to fight multiple parties, each vying for attention and power. What could it lead to - who knows, but given previous historical experiences - nothing good will come out of it.

[oldmanwinters]

I didn't know where else to post this sorta thing, but I wanted to remember that this article exists despite me not being about to get past the hilarity of the concept to even read it:
https://news.yahoo.com/scientific-reason-why-americans-dont-145431580.html

[Andrew NDB]

I didn't know where else to post this sorta thing, but I wanted to remember that this article exists despite me not being about to get past the hilarity of the concept to even read it:
https://news.yahoo.com/scientific-reason-why-americans-dont-145431580.html

How stupid. It has nothing to do with her knowingly breaking the law and bringing drugs into Russia? Must be race then.

Though while we're on the subject, I wonder if she will continue taking a knee and protesting the national anthem when they finally send her home?

[MikeandRaph87]

I didn't know where else to post this sorta thing, but I wanted to remember that this article exists despite me not being about to get past the hilarity of the concept to even read it:
https://news.yahoo.com/scientific-reason-why-americans-dont-145431580.html

Yeah, I saw this article yesterday. It is so pointless. Why doesn't the media remember that Paul Whelan, a retired Marine is also being detained and imprisoned in Russia?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I enjoy this song. Set to tne tune of Boney M's Rasputin.

VTjLQcY37FQ

[MikeandRaph87]

First there was the draftee going on a shooting spree at a recruitment office now this.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/shooting-at-russian-military-range-leaves-11-soldiers-dead-15-wounded

If NATO does get deeper involved Crimea may just go hack where it belongs and Putin will be out. However, like Cuba after the Castros, what or who would steer Russia?

[Sumac]

However, like Cuba after the Castros, what or who would steer Russia?
No-one knows it even here.
But pretty much everyone getting ready for a change in management.

[neatoman]

Speaking Castro, I remember the guy talking about "keeping the revolution going" a few years before he died, even though at that point the Communists had been in charge for decades. His delusional justification for being in charge I guess?

What's Putin's deluded justification for not giving up power?

[ChosenOne]

What's Putin's deluded justification for not giving up power?

Nazis, Nazis everywhere.

Even though he himself is the closest thing this planet has seen to a Nazi since actual Nazis.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Nazis, Nazis everywhere.

Even though he himself is the closest thing this planet has seen to a Nazi since actual Nazis.

Vladimir Putin is afraid of his own people revolting against his corrupt rule. That's why he has to paint a picture of NATO being a threat to Russia, and show for his citizens.

[neatoman]

Nazis, Nazis everywhere.

Even though he himself is the closest thing this planet has seen to a Nazi since actual Nazis.

Well, yeah. We really should be careful with "X is just like Hitler" but I think out of all the people who could be compared to a Nazi leader, Putin is about as fitting as it gets. He keeps talking about how important his own ethnic group is, how outside forces are threatening it, how it was OK to invade because "Ukrainians are really just off-shoot Russians". There's even this weird parallel in the sense that he ended up in power due to being appointed a high position without an election and then kept himself in power through suspicious circumstances. Then there is obviously the state propaganda and suppression of rights.

[Coola Yagami]

It's kinda scary to think all of this stuff is still happening in other parts of the world in 2022. It all sounds like old history stuff and black and white movies and whatnot but this level of corruption and oppression is horribly real.

That's what pisses me off about all these so-called woke activists complaining about they're oh so oppressed and woe is me.....as they're on the way to order a latte with 6 words in the name from Starbucks without an actual care in the world. Sure, they're spouting out all this woke nonsense, but the thought that they can just go home and chill without actually wondering if they'll live to see another day and not get rounded up and shot or blown up by drones dropping bombs on them and whatever never enters their minds.

I mean when your biggest problem is not having the extra dollar for one type of soy latter over the other, or mean words on Twitter made you cry, you have no place to complain about 'oppression'. These other countries and their current situations would like a word with you about oppresion.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

28 June 1919: The German Empire collapses, as the Versailles Treaty ends World War I. Adolf Hitler blames it all on the Western Powers.
25 December 1991: The Soviet Union falls apart. Vladimir Putin blames it all on NATO.

30 January 1933: Adolf Hitler sizes power in Germany and launches oppression against the opposition, but some people initially praise him for making the economy recover and for restoring stability.
1 January 2000: Vladimir Putin sizes power in Russia and launches oppression against the opposition, but some people initially praise him for making the economy recover and for restoring stability.

1934–1935: Adolf Hitler enforces new laws, increasing his power.
2012–2021: Vladimir Putin enforces new laws, increasing his power.

1935–1939: Nazi Germany experiences territorial expansion, by occupying and annexing Saarland, Rhineland, Austria, Sudetenland, Klaipeda and Gdansk, as Adolf Hitler attempts to unite German-speaking people.
2008–2022: Russia experiences territorial expansion, by occupying and annexing South Ossetia, Crimea and Southeastern Ukraine, as Vladimir Putin attempts to unite Russian-speaking people.

[MikeandRaph87]

Off-topic, but I find it interesting that Germany gets blamed for World War I. The escalation, yes, but the war no. It was Serbia's fault. Yet after all the countries aligned it was democracies vs empires and Serbia just happened to be on the democracies side despite the fact Russia was an empire at the time yet none of the four empires would be as a result of the war.

[Mayhem]

Off-topic, but I find it interesting that Germany gets blamed for World War I. The escalation, yes, but the war no. It was Serbia's fault. Yet after all the countries aligned it was democracies vs empires and Serbia just happened to be on the democracies side despite the fact Russia was an empire at the time yet none of the four empires would be as a result of the war.
Most historians here blame Austria and Germany. In fact interesting news piece about this, see link. Austria had invaded Serbia, backed up by Germany, that’s why Ferdinand was shot when visiting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26048324

[Cowabung-Gal]

I keep hearing calls for America to go to war with Russia.

Just sayin’, those who call for war must be prepared to go to war themselves.

[Coola Yagami]

This ish still going on?

[Leo656]

The Republicans have promised to cut all funds to Ukraine when they win the midterm elections, which they will. So yeah, Actual World War III coming up soon once Putin and Co. take the lead and start doing the same to other countries.

Hopefully they go right to the nukes and we can all get the f*ck outta here already.

[Mayhem]

Which either shows they don’t give a ****, or they are also getting dirty Russian cash too…

[neatoman]

The Republicans have promised to cut all funds to Ukraine when they win the midterm elections, which they will. So yeah, Actual World War III coming up soon once Putin and Co. take the lead and start doing the same to other countries.

Hopefully they go right to the nukes and we can all get the f*ck outta here already.

For what it's worth, it seems to be just that one guy who promised that and others in the Republican party have stated their support of Ukraine. It seems like it's a vocal minority of Republicans who oppose the war aid and most Republicans don't, whatever fuels the anti-aid sentiment is there appears to be the "we gotta oppose literally everything the president does because he's part of the other team" thing.
noxmql64mTE

[Leo656]

For what it's worth, it seems to be just that one guy who promised that and others in the Republican party have stated their support of Ukraine. It seems like it's a vocal minority of Republicans who oppose the war aid and most Republicans don't, whatever fuels the anti-aid sentiment is there appears to be the "we gotta oppose literally everything the president does because he's part of the other team" thing.

You may be right but I have no faith in those people at all right now. They have been lying out loud and then reversing course as it suits them quite a lot lately. Most Republican VOTERS are of the "F*ck Ukraine, sEnD tHaT mOneY tO dA bOrDuH!" flavor, and the politicians are listening. They may not want to say the quiet part out loud right now because they don't want to scare off the swing voters in the midterm elections. Historically, Republican politicians have never been shy about braying "F*ck what's going on Over There, we got our own sh*t to deal with" because geopolitics is not something conservatives have ever understood or been great at. As witnessed by the fact that so many of them think Biden has more to do with inflation - which is happening on a global scale - than the China Virus, or Putin trying to start World War III.

But I mean, you can't teach these people anything, they can't even f*cking read.

We'll see. Remember how recently they were all, "Such-and-such is going to the states to decide, so people can vote on it"? And then as soon as ONE state voted the way they didn't like, suddenly the Republicans did a 180 and said "Nah, we're NOT gonna let you vote on it"? That's what I'm expecting. Say one thing to get ahead, then just say "F*ck Y'all, I Won't Do What Ya Tell Me." That's ALWAYS the Republican MO.

We shall see. I am far beyond hope.

Which either shows they don’t give a ****, or they are also getting dirty Russian cash too…

I'd say about 90% Column A with a sprinkling of Column B. Lest we forget, these people are so far up Trump's ass they can smell his fake tanning lotion, and Trump and Putin were locked together like finger cuffs. Wouldn't shock me if they'd LOVE for WWIII to break out. All of this is like a Neocon's wet dream if you know your history.

[ChosenOne]

Russia has pretty much lost the war the moment they had to flee from Kherson with their tails between their legs. Get f*cked, Putin!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Russia has pretty much lost the war the moment they had to flee from Kherson with their tails between their legs. Get f*cked, Putin!

At this point, he already knows he will lose everything and eventually end up in the Hauge. What Russia does in Ukraine now is just genocide.

[ChosenOne]

At this point, he already knows he will lose everything and eventually end up in the Hauge. What Russia does in Ukraine now is just genocide.

We might see his flunkies in the Hague, but I don't think we'll ever see Putin himself. He'll calm his nerves with a nice cup of tea first.

[Andrew NDB]

For what it's worth, it seems to be just that one guy who promised that and others in the Republican party have stated their support of Ukraine. It seems like it's a vocal minority of Republicans who oppose the war aid and most Republicans don't, whatever fuels the anti-aid sentiment is there appears to be the "we gotta oppose literally everything the president does because he's part of the other team" thing.
noxmql64mTE

It's not that Republicans oppose war aid to Ukraine outright, it's that it doesn't seem like a sustainable thing to be throwing billions of dollars at Ukraine seemingly forever, with no game plan and with no "way out" even offered for Putin to at least put a possible end in sight. A "COVID relief"-esque money pit.

[Leo656]

Yet they always seem to come up with some extra cash so we can kick around in oil-rich desert countries for decades with no exit strategy. How interesting.

In the end it's all just a matter of priority.

[ChosenOne]

It's not that Republicans oppose war aid to Ukraine outright, it's that it doesn't seem like a sustainable thing to be throwing billions of dollars at Ukraine seemingly forever, with no game plan and with no "way out" even offered for Putin to at least put a possible end in sight. A "COVID relief"-esque money pit.

But as we've been seeing lately, it won't be forever. Eventually Ukraine will get its entire territory back, join NATO, and whichever president helmed the push to help them get to that point will not only be credited with removing Russia from the board dor the fireseeable board, but America will also be able to move in to help with the reconstruction and that aid will have paid for itself. It's an investment, not an expense.

And Putin does have an exit strategy: the nearest window.

[Andrew NDB]

But as we've been seeing lately, it won't be forever. Eventually Ukraine will get its entire territory back

Far from a given. And if Putin really feels like his back is against the wall... well, I don't think Ukraine would be much more than 1 tactical nuclear strike from complete surrender. There would be no point to resistance at all at that point. And then Putin would say, to the world:

https://media.tenor.com/NTrQYEswwU8AAAAM/thats-so.gif

And the answer, particularly with some regimes today -- sadly -- might be "nothing at all."

And Putin does have an exit strategy: the nearest window.

Exit strategy that allows him to save face and keep some meager gains. As in a "realistic exit strategy" that he would consider.

[ChosenOne]

Far from a given. And if Putin really feels like his back is against the wall... well, I don't think Ukraine would be much more than 1 tactical nuclear strike from complete surrender. There would be no point to resistance at all at that point.

That won't happen. If Russia nukes Ukraine in any way, shape or form, NATO will step in and Putin knows that’s a fight he can't win. Even China has warned Putin against that idea. Ukraine will keep fighting until their borders are completely restored, including Crimea, and the most Putin can do about it is bomb a few playgrounds while pushing for negotiations to at least keep the south bank of the Dnieper.

Exit strategy that allows him to save face and keep some meager gains. As in a "realistic exit strategy" that he would consider.

Hitler didn't get one either and that worked out fine. If I were Putin right now, though, I'd be less worried about outside threats and more about the ones inside the Kremlin.

[Andrew NDB]

That won't happen. If Russia nukes Ukraine in any way, shape or form, NATO will step in and Putin knows that’s a fight he can't win.

But again, back against the wall, plus in whatever "f*** it" mental health state he's in... that might not factor in at all.

Hitler didn't get one either and that worked out fine.

Not remotely the same situation. On any level. That was a world united in actual war against Germany. This is a semi-united world just meekly throwing cash at Ukraine from afar. Yeah, so scary for Putin.

If I were Putin right now, though, I'd be less worried about outside threats and more about the ones inside the Kremlin.

Based on what?

[ChosenOne]

But again, back against the wall, plus in whatever "f*** it" mental health state he's in... that might not factor in at all.

His only mental state right now is desperation. He tried and failed to take over a country he deems lesser than Russia, its people not even having the right to exist. Yet they fought back and kicked Russian ass, and showed the whole world what a paper tiger Russia is. The nukes, assuming there are any and that they even still work, are not an option. He might give the order but it won't be carried down the chain of command. Being nationalistic isn't the same as being suicidally dumb. With his back against the wall, there's only more wall.

Not remotely the same situation. On any level. That was a world united in actual war against Germany. This is a semi-united world just meekly throwing cash at Ukraine from afar. Yeah, so scary for Putin.

If it's not scary, why are they running away? Should everyone else be scared of his junkyard gear and his peasant army?

Based on what?

What History tells us always happens to Russian rulers after a humiliation of this scale.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Not remotely the same situation. On any level. That was a world united in actual war against Germany.

World War II split the world into Axis and Allies. It wasn't until the end of the war that everyone turned against Nazi Germany. Vladimir Putin has far less allies (only Belarus, the PR China and North Korea), but two of them have nukes to play around with...

[Andrew NDB]

World War II split the world into Axis and Allies. It wasn't until the end of the war that everyone turned against Nazi Germany. Vladimir Putin has far less allies (only Belarus, the PR China and North Korea), but two of them have nukes to play around with...

Again. Not remotely the same thing. 80% of the world sides with Ukraine. The other 20% isn't really relevant because they either aren't equipped to benefit or hurt the conflict at hand, or they have no stakes in it. It's just... it's been many months now. Like, everyone has been supporting you. Do we just keep doing this or what? We all believe in the cause. It's just... everybody expected some kind of decisive something within a couple of months. Which is probably why the first thing Biden did was offer Zelenskyy an escape route.

[ChosenOne]

Again. Not remotely the same thing. 80% of the world sides with Ukraine. The other 20% isn't really relevant because they either aren't equipped to benefit or hurt the conflict at hand, or they have no stakes in it. It's just... it's been many months now. Like, everyone has been supporting you. Do we just keep doing this or what? We all believe in the cause. It's just... everybody expected some kind of decisive something within a couple of months. Which is probably why the first thing Biden did was offer Zelenskyy an escape route.

Why are you acting like Ukraine has made no progress at all, on the very day their armed forces liberated Kherson and booted Russia back to nearly the same place they were in on February 22, and everyone knows American aid has been pivotal to that? It strikes me as odd. The end is clearly in sight.

[Andrew NDB]

Why are you acting like Ukraine has made no progress at all, on the very day their armed forces liberated Kherson and booted Russia back to nearly the same place they were in on February 22, and everyone knows American aid has been pivotal to that? It strikes me as odd. The end is clearly in sight.

You're still operating under the assumption Putin is a rational individual and will behave rationally and appropriately. And maybe the "I'm a crazy/unpredictable guy" routine is an act. But maybe it's not.

[ChosenOne]

You're still operating under the assumption Putin is a rational individual and will behave rationally and appropriately. And maybe the "I'm a crazy/unpredictable guy" routine is an act. But maybe it's not.

I know he's not rational. He's also not as much in control of things as you assume. There's blood in the water and the regime sharks are circling to take him out. Some are even openly questioning his choices on national television. Imagine that.

Guy's a paranoid tyrant, and for good reason. He's very much afraid of a coup, whether civilian or military, China has put him on notice, and any orders he gives to deploy nukes will never be carried down the chain of command. He knows all of this. Otherwise, why would he have so many oligarchs taken out? Why would he suppress public opinion so hard? Why bother with do much propaganda and misdirection to divide the West?

If he loses the war, he dies, and he knows he can't win. The end is in sight now. What we can't ever, ever do is give in to the bastard's demands because then he'll never stop making them. That was the mistake with Hitler, and that was Soetoro's mistake in 2014. No more.

[Vegita-San]

https://twitter.com/ASavageNation/status/1591600399118913536

too bad this didn't come out before the midterms. boot these crooks out.

[neatoman]

The problem with Putin being removed from power, be it a coup, his death or any other reason, is that it could lead to a serious scramble for the throne. Putin demolished what little democracy existed, "elections" only happen because they technically need too but only exist as weird mockery concept and there's not clear line of succession. Get rid of Biden and you get President Harris, get rid of Harris and you get President Pelosi, etc, etc. You might think Putin would get replaced by the "Prime Minister" but that office mainly seems to exist to let Putin remain in charge whenever he is "required" to not be the "President" every time he has spent two consecutive terms. It's obvious that Putin has twisted the system to only allow himself power and that he only shares power because micromanaging a country is impossible. Of course, the lack of any real democracy or clear line of succession is part of what lead to things like... Well... A lot of problems in Russian/Soviet history...

[Sumac]

Exit strategy that allows him to save face and keep some meager gains. As in a "realistic exit strategy" that he would consider.
I feel like we are past that point.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I am seriously thinking about what to do about Russia once they have retreated from Ukraine. More boycots? Immedietaly restore Russia's staus in international trade (and returning Disney, IKEA and McDonald's)? NATO occupation (if possible, I'm not a fan of NATO going to war with Russia without any member being attacked)? Independence for places like Chechnya or Dagestan?

[ChosenOne]

The problem with Putin being removed from power, be it a coup, his death or any other reason, is that it could lead to a serious scramble for the throne. Putin demolished what little democracy existed, "elections" only happen because they technically need too but only exist as weird mockery concept and there's not clear line of succession. Get rid of Biden and you get President Harris, get rid of Harris and you get President Pelosi, etc, etc. You might think Putin would get replaced by the "Prime Minister" but that office mainly seems to exist to let Putin remain in charge whenever he is "required" to not be the "President" every time he has spent two consecutive terms. It's obvious that Putin has twisted the system to only allow himself power and that he only shares power because micromanaging a country is impossible. Of course, the lack of any real democracy or clear line of succession is part of what lead to things like... Well... A lot of problems in Russian/Soviet history...

That's their f*cking problem. They made the bed.

I am seriously thinking about what to do about Russia once they have retreated from Ukraine. More boycots? Immedietaly restore Russia's staus in international trade (and returning Disney, IKEA and McDonald's)? NATO occupation (if possible, I'm not a fan of NATO going to war with Russia without any member being attacked)? Independence for places like Chechnya or Dagestan?

See above.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Here is a pretty good breakdown of what could happen if Putin's ill-advised invasion fails.
Hs-UJI5LA_Q

Those maps of Europe are from alternate history. :lol:

[Mayhem]

If true, oh dear...!

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has convened an urgent meeting of Poland's National Security Council after unconfirmed reports that stray Russian missiles hit a farm in a Polish village near the Ukrainian border, killing two people. The village has been named as Przewodów.

[ChosenOne]

It's true. Here we go...

[IMJ]

Yeah that could absolutely have been the World War 3 moment right there.

[ChosenOne]

Poland has triggered NATO Article 4.

[Andrew NDB]

If true, oh dear...!

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has convened an urgent meeting of Poland's National Security Council after unconfirmed reports that stray Russian missiles hit a farm in a Polish village near the Ukrainian border, killing two people. The village has been named as Przewodów.

Is it cynical of me to wonder right away if it was really Russia that fired them?

[MikeandRaph87]

Article 4 information taken from NATO's official website:
In Article 4 of NATO’s founding treaty, members can bring any issue of concern, especially related to the security of a member country, to the table for discussion within the North Atlantic Council.
Since the Alliance’s creation in 1949, Article 4 has been invoked several times, for instance by Turkey.


Different forms of consultation
Consultation takes many forms. At its most basic level it involves simply the exchange of information and opinions. At another level it covers the communication of actions or decisions, which governments have already taken or may be about to take. Finally, it can encompass discussion with the aim of reaching a consensus on policies to be adopted or actions to be taken.

In sum, consultation is continuous and takes place both on a formal and informal basis. It can happen quickly due to the fact that all member states have permanent delegations at NATO Headquarters in Brussels. Governments can come together at short notice whenever necessary, often with prior knowledge of their respective national preoccupations, in order to agree on common policies or take action on the basis of consensus. NATO’s network of committees facilitates consultation by enabling government officials, experts and administrators to come together on a daily basis to discuss a broad range issues.

The principle of consensus decision-making is applied throughout NATO, which means that all “NATO decisions” are the expression of the collective will of all sovereign states that are members of this inter-governmental organization. While consensus decision-making can help a member country preserve national sovereignty in the area of defence and security, Article 4 can be an invitation for member countries to concede this right to the group or it can simply lead to a request for NATO support.

Article 4

Under Article 4 of NATO’s founding treaty, member countries can bring an issue to the attention of the North Atlantic Council (Council or NAC – NATO’s principal political decision-making body) and discuss it with Allies. The article states:

“The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened.”

Any member country can formally invoke Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty. As soon as it is invoked, the issue is discussed and can potentially lead to some form of joint decision or action on behalf of the Alliance. Whatever the scenario, fellow members sitting around the Council table are encouraged to react to a situation brought to their attention by a member country.

Since the Alliance’s creation in 1949, Article 4 has been invoked seven times. On 24 February 2022, Bulgaria, Czechia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Slovakia requested to hold consultations under Article 4 following the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

On 26 July 2015, Turkey made the same request in view of the seriousness of the situation following terrorist attacks, and to inform Allies of the measures it was taking. Poland invoked Article 4 on 3 March 2014 following increasing tensions in neighboring Ukraine, as a result of Russia’s aggressive actions. On two occasions in 2012, Turkey requested a NAC meeting under Article 4: once on 22 June after one of its fighter jets was shot down by Syrian air defense forces and the second time on 3 October when five Turkish civilians were killed by Syrian shells. Following these incidents, on 21 November, Turkey requested the deployment of Patriot missiles. NATO agreed to this defensive measure so as to help Turkey defend its population and territory, and help de-escalate the crisis along the border.

Previously, on 10 February 2003, Turkey formally invoked Article 4, asking for consultations in the NAC on defensive assistance from NATO in the event of a threat to its population or territory resulting from armed conflict in neighboring Iraq. NATO agreed a package of defensive measures and conducted Operation Display Deterrence from end February to early May 2003.

[Mayhem]

Is it cynical of me to wonder right away if it was really Russia that fired them?
Should be able to tell from various evidence, trajectories, missile remnants etc. Or you more thinking Ukrainian forces launched captured Russian armaments at Poland?

[ChosenOne]

If not it was North Korea.

I can't tell if you're serious.

It was Russian ordnance fired from Belarus, as per usual when it comes to bombings in the Lviv region.

Over ninety missiles fell all over Ukraine today in retaliation for Zelensky's speech at the G20 Summit, somehow I doubt all or even any of those were gear captured by Ukrainian armed forces.

[Andrew NDB]

Or you more thinking Ukrainian forces launched captured Russian armaments at Poland?

More that. Maybe even just a few Ukrainian forces acting alone.

[Andrew NDB]

They don't know who fired the missiles, just that they were Russian made.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-11-15-22/index.html

[ChosenOne]

Well... Apocalypse averted, I guess. For now.

[1987]

So now they’re saying it was a Ukraine missile that hit Poland?

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3738083-nato-chief-missile-blast-in-poland-likely-caused-by-ukrainian-air-defense-system/amp/

And that it wasn’t actually an attack?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/11/16/ukraine-russia-poland-missile-live-updates/10709829002/

[Mayhem]

It was, but it sounds like it was an anti missile defence system that missed its target and went into Poland. Ukraine's ultimate fault, but if there weren't Russian missiles heading to targets in Ukraine, it wouldn't have been fired so...

[ChosenOne]

It was, but it sounds like it was an anti missile defence system that missed its target and went into Poland. Ukraine's ultimate fault, but if there weren't Russian missiles heading to targets in Ukraine, it wouldn't have been fired so...

That makes it Russia's ultimate fault. The sad thing about playing with fire is that innocents also very often get burned.

[1987]

This whole thing is ridiculous. Yes I feel bad for the actually innocent people dying over this, but it’s really a corrupt money laundering operation by globalists, they’ve been caught funneling money sent to Ukraine back to themselves through FTX bitcoin but of course the corporate media will write articles to debunk that as a conspiracy theory. It’s a Hollywood sh**show.

https://i.imgur.com/pBo4jpx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xhe69N2.png
https://i.imgur.com/PQ6Pkw0.jpg?4

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.imgur.com/xhe69N2.png

I mean... yeah, it's pretty hard to argue with that.

Here was Zelensky, initially proclaiming it was Russia that fired the missiles and that the world needs to act.

26lKZTgSUM4

And Zelensky saying it wasn't from Ukraine yesterday, despite trajectory analysis:

lLt80n40Atw

[ProphetofGanja]

Zelensky's just an actor dude don't listen to him

[Sumac]

Zelensky's just an actor dude don't listen to him
You are random poster, a nobody, people should listen to you even less.

This whole thing is ridiculous. Yes I feel bad for the actually innocent people dying over this, but it’s really a corrupt money laundering operation by globalists, they’ve been caught funneling money sent to Ukraine back to themselves through FTX bitcoin but of course the corporate media will write articles to debunk that as a conspiracy theory. It’s a Hollywood sh**show.
Careful, you might find commie-reptiloids under your bed.

[Refractive Reflections]

Zelensky is so eager to drag the world into World War 3, just to preserve his puppet power in Ukraine.
o45W6Xmz1Cg


The amount of money being spent on him/Ukraine is ridiculous, and of course the citizens have to suffer from all of these corrupt politicans:
ozsftYKAfCM

And is this really Zelensky? :lol: Wouldn't be surprised if it was since he and his wife have time from their war-torn schedule to pose for a Vogue photoshoot (https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-vogue-photoshoot-war-ukraine-divides-public-russia-conflict-annie-leibovitz-1728470). :roll:
qQlzoTL5lq8

[Mayhem]

The missiles that the anti missile defence system was trying to down were fired inside Ukraine, they were not fired from Russia.

[ChosenOne]

The missiles that the anti missile defence system was trying to down were fired inside Ukraine, they were not fired from Russia.

What do you mean? Inside Ukraine including or excluding the occupied regions?

[Sumac]

Zelensky is so eager to drag the world into World War 3, just to preserve his puppet power in Ukraine.
You are past your pill time. Take them or your doctor will be angry.

[Andrew NDB]

You are past your pill time. Take them or your doctor will be angry.

As you're living in Russia I by far take your word over his... but I'd love to hear what you really think about this. What do you think happened? You think Russia did send a missile way over there? And if so, how and why?

I have no skin in the game and just am observing objectively. Because it SEEMS like this was a ploy to bring in WW-type support by the Ukrainians. Now, whether this was approved from the top or some goons decided "maybe this will help," I have no idea. Or maybe I'm way off.

[Mayhem]

What do you mean? Inside Ukraine including or excluding the occupied regions?
Not Russian soil, as in the bits that belonged to Ukraine prior to all of this.

[ChosenOne]

Not Russian soil, as in the bits that belonged to Ukraine prior to all of this.

Who fired in that scenario? The Russians or the Ukrainians? Considering it happened near the Lviv region, I would've expected a missile fired from Belarus but anything's possible.

[Sumac]

As you're living in Russia I by far take your word over his... but I'd love to hear what you really think about this. What do you think happened? You think Russia did send a missile way over there? And if so, how and why?

I have no skin in the game and just am observing objectively. Because it SEEMS like this was a ploy to bring in WW-type support by the Ukrainians. Now, whether this was approved from the top or some goons decided "maybe this will help," I have no idea. Or maybe I'm way off.
I can't speak openly due to certain reasons, which ties directly into this mess.

But either way I think it is a mere accident.

Any notion of either side trying to start WW3 is retarded.

[Andrew NDB]

WW3, yes, but me as an outsider could imagine at least factions in Ukraine thinking about manufacturing a micro Pearl Harbor incident to rally more substantial pressure from other nations against Russia to stop the invasion. The hope wouldn't be WW3, of course. The hope would be Russia would be more inclined to take its meager wins and leave in light of a Russian-staged Poland "oopsie."

Hypothetically.

[Mayhem]

Who fired in that scenario? The Russians or the Ukrainians? Considering it happened near the Lviv region, I would've expected a missile fired from Belarus but anything's possible.
Good question, don’t think anyone is going to find out that answer.

[Sumac]

WW3, yes, but me as an outsider could imagine at least factions in Ukraine thinking about manufacturing a micro Pearl Harbor incident to rally more substantial pressure from other nations against Russia to stop the invasion. The hope wouldn't be WW3, of course. The hope would be Russia would be more inclined to take its meager wins and leave in light of a Russian-staged Poland "oopsie."
Is it really needed at this point?

[ChosenOne]

Even if such an incident were to occur, whether organically or fabricated, there's no guarantee the US/NATO wouldn't just downplay and/or try to cover it up to avoid a catastrophic escalation. Heck, there's even a not-insignificant chance that's what happened the other day in Poland.

[IMJ]

I could just as easily believe that Ukraine staged a psy-op with the rocket into Poland to cultivate support as I could that Russia did it as agent-provocateur's per Putin's M.O. - the same as ordering fighters to fly over Alaska on purpose and then fly away.

[ChosenOne]

Wishful thinking? Or kernel of truth? (https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/russian-president-vladimir-putin-reportedly-falls-down-stairs-soils-himself-amid-growing-concern-about-rapidly-declining-health/news-story/c5272f3615de347f04845e771b0a76bb)

[neatoman]

Wishful thinking? Or kernel of truth? (https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/russian-president-vladimir-putin-reportedly-falls-down-stairs-soils-himself-amid-growing-concern-about-rapidly-declining-health/news-story/c5272f3615de347f04845e771b0a76bb)

Geez, how many shirtless horseback riding pictures and does he need to shoot to get away from that one? How many guys does he need to judo flip or beat in hockey to back up his claims to macho man health this time?

Maybe this time he should flip guys over with a hockey stick while riding that horse at the same time? Do all of it in one action this time to really sell it!

[ChosenOne]

If Putin turns out to be wearing a colostomy bag, we'll finally know where that creep Peskov's been hiding all this time.

[MikeandRaph87]

Jump 25 minutes in if you wanted to see Zelensky address both houses of U.S. Congress.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?525000-1/ukrainian-president-zelensky-address-joint-meeting-congress

[Cowabung-Gal]

d7FIpqPvL7E

Suddenly I’m not so scared of the Russian army anymore

[ChosenOne]

Welp, now we know why Ukraine is winning.

[ChosenOne]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-resisting-high-intensity-offensive-095900871.html

Russia takes a town in eastern Ukraine.

All that for a drop of blood.

[ChosenOne]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russians-fighting-against-homeland-heres-153830647.html

Russians civilians are taking up arms against their soldiers making the way for more of a civil uprising. It makes me feel more and more like unless China emboldens Putin dies at the end of this Putin manufactured conflict.

For sure, especially if he officially declares war and announces a mobilization in his upcoming speech. And China will never embolden him, this conflict is bad for their business.

[MikeandRaph87]

For sure, especially if he officially declares war and announces a mobilization in his upcoming speech. And China will never embolden him, this conflict is bad for their business.

With the continued pressure on Taiwan acting like it's apart of it as Putin sees Ukraine as apart of Russia when it's not. Coupled with the series of spy balloons it's luke muscle flexing.

[ChosenOne]

With the continued pressure on Taiwan acting like it's apart of it as Putin sees Ukraine as apart of Russia when it's not. Coupled with the series of spy balloons it's luke muscle flexing.

Blood in the water, sharks will come... This never happened to the other guy.

[TurtleManiac]

The people have spoken. No more wars, no more US taxpayer money going to Ukraine.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/anti-war-protest-in-washington-d-c-garners-support-of-conservatives-libertarians-leftists-protesters-demand-no-more-funding-to-ukraine-exclusive-video/

Imagine that, the left and right finally agreeing on something.

[ChosenOne]

The people have spoken. No more wars, no more US taxpayer money going to Ukraine.

Have they told Putin?

[IMJ]

The people have spoken. No more wars, no more US taxpayer money going to Ukraine.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/anti-war-protest-in-washington-d-c-garners-support-of-conservatives-libertarians-leftists-protesters-demand-no-more-funding-to-ukraine-exclusive-video/

Imagine that, the left and right finally agreeing on something.

It takes a common enemy to unite the peasants. It always has. Point your peasants against each other when you need destabilization and then point them at an outside enemy when you need focus and unity. There are always lots of peasants across any given nation. It's just the stratification of development across all societies - it's just true.

[ChosenOne]

It takes a common enemy to unite the peasants. It always has. Point your peasants against each other when you need destabilization and then point them at an outside enemy when you need focus and unity. There are always lots of peasants across any given nation. It's just the stratification of development across all societies - it's just true.

Who started the war?

[IMJ]

Who started the war?

It depends on the conflict I suppose.

Conspiracies exist but not by virtue of a group of evil people in hoods around a table with an octopus on it in an old structure somewhere. Instead, conspiracies exist according to any coming together of an agenda and therefore things are put into motion through a variety of motivations some of which intersect.

And so it depends on the conflict. But the common ground in any social-stratification is where, how and when you aim your peasant-cross-section of the population.

[ChosenOne]

It depends on the conflict I suppose.

Conspiracies exist but not by virtue of a group of evil people in hoods around a table with an octopus on it in an old structure somewhere. Instead, conspiracies exist according to any coming together of an agenda and therefore things are put into motion through a variety of motivations some of which intersect.

And so it depends on the conflict. But the common ground in any social-stratification is where, how and when you aim your peasant-cross-section of the population.

Who started the ongoing war in Ukraine?

[IMJ]

Who started the ongoing war in Ukraine?

Well I guess historically it could be argued that the 18th Century Russian empire did and that mentality that "Ukraine is Russia" has been gripped tightly by Putin's puritan belief systems whereby in turn he began this renewed conflict.

But my understanding is that for centuries Ukraine has had a culture and population who wanted to stand as their own nation; and for centuries various Russian leaders have believed that was a mistake and the Ukrainian people are Russian people.

And although that is the historical narrative, I wouldn't assign any such belief system to Putin - he has only weaponized that belief - I don't think he believes it or cares.

But again, my understanding of Ukranian history only goes that deep and isn't overly sophisticated. But in short - before Putin, "Mother Russia" had been a centuries long aggressor. And now Putin began a war there, this time most likely as a "legacy maneuver" for himself more than any other motive.

[ChosenOne]

So Putin, then?

(I'm trying to be rhetorical here. And it could be - quite easily and successfully - argued that historically speaking it's the other way around, Russia is Ukraine.)

[IMJ]

So Putin, then?

(I'm trying to be rhetorical here. And it could be - quite easily and successfully - argued that historically speaking it's the other way around, Russia is Ukraine.)

From my understanding of the history, yes it could be viewed that Russia is Ukraine. But what we do here is we look at the aggressor. And so, let's say that Russia IS Ukraine. It doesn't matter because Ukraine isn't trying to take anything away from the Russian people.

As a point here - why are you asking rhetorically? If you are genuinely asking then I think there is a breaking point where you go do your own historical research. But if you are trying to make a point of some kind, just get to the point because I'm only going to carry the "educating a Technodrome guy" thing so far unless I know why I'm doing it. 8)

I mean - I'm a middle-America guy with Irish heritage. I have no stake in this thing other than the blanket "humanity stake" that it's ridiculous and we shouldn't be doing it.

[ChosenOne]

Putin is indeed the aggressor. And helping a victim of aggression is a legitimate move. The only right move, even moreso when it means A) making a stand for our Western way of life and B) weakening a constant thorn in our side for almost the entire last century. Are you trying to argue for or against that? S'what I don't get.

[Coola Yagami]

Apparently people are doubting there even is a war going on and this is all a big money laundering scheme.

Has there been any footage at all of the war in the same way we've seen footage of the gulf war and literally any other war in the last few decades is the general question being asked now.

[ChosenOne]

Apparently people are doubting there even is a war going on and this is all a big money laundering scheme.

Has there been any footage at all of the war in the same way we've seen footage of the gulf war and literally any other war in the last few decades is the general question being asked now.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/227/689/ef8.jpg

[MikeandRaph87]

The people have spoken. No more wars, no more US taxpayer money going to Ukraine.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/anti-war-protest-in-washington-d-c-garners-support-of-conservatives-libertarians-leftists-protesters-demand-no-more-funding-to-ukraine-exclusive-video/

Imagine that, the left and right finally agreeing on something.

The political spectrum unites against aide to Ukraine? Um, like The Marshall Plan it keeps power hungry despots in line! Xi and Un are watching and lurking so Ukraine needs to be given whatever it needs to keep U.S. bodies from dropping in WWIII. It needs to be stopped before it can expand. The protesters are complete idiots who cannot see the big picture. They need to agree and compromise for the betterment of society as a whole, but on this?

[ChosenOne]

The political spectrum unites against aide to Ukraine? Um, like The Marshall Plan it keeps power hungry despots in line! Xi and Un are watching and lurking so Ukraine needs to be given whatever it needs to keep U.S. bodies from dropping in WWIII. It needs to be stopped before it can expand. The protesters are complete idiots who cannot see the big picture. They need to agree and compromise for the betterment of society as a whole, but on this?

This. Not to mention questioning the truth and toll of the conflict, which can be seen daily on the faces of thousands of displaced, tortured, terrified, starving and murdered civilians is its own special and shameful kind of retarded. Even worse than being a Holocaust denier, because this time there's footage of the genocide while it's happening.

[Mayhem]

Yeah and if it isn't all real, there's an awful lot of Ukranian crisis actors in the UK right now, let along any other part of the world.

[CyberCubed]

Apparently people are doubting there even is a war going on and this is all a big money laundering scheme.

Has there been any footage at all of the war in the same way we've seen footage of the gulf war and literally any other war in the last few decades is the general question being asked now.

C'mon man, millions of people have been killed and there's footage all over. And everyone knows Putin is still positioning troops and the military around Ukraine constantly.

[TurtleManiac]

The political spectrum unites against aide to Ukraine? Um, like The Marshall Plan it keeps power hungry despots in line! Xi and Un are watching and lurking so Ukraine needs to be given whatever it needs to keep U.S. bodies from dropping in WWIII. It needs to be stopped before it can expand. The protesters are complete idiots who cannot see the big picture. They need to agree and compromise for the betterment of society as a whole, but on this?

This. Not to mention questioning the truth and toll of the conflict, which can be seen daily on the faces of thousands of displaced, tortured, terrified, starving and murdered civilians is its own special and shameful kind of retarded. Even worse than being a Holocaust denier, because this time there's footage of the genocide while it's happening.

Nobody is saying there’s not really innocent people getting killed there, that’s very unfortunate and tragic. I’ve seen crazy videos on Twitter, shows people on the streets getting tied up to street signs and tortured. Some are saying that it’s Ukrainian soldiers torturing people but Idk what to believe anymore.

The US Nation Debt is at 33 Trillion. We should be looking at why is this happening, instead of just sending billions and billions to Ukraine nonstop while the US has it’s own infrastructure problems. It’s not completely unreasonable to suspect that there is possibly some money laundering going on with politicians. The media just says “blame Putin, evil dictator!” etc just like they did to Trump. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t, I don’t know, I don’t live in Russia or Ukraine. The media has a history of manipulating the truth. We should look at why exactly this war is happening, does the World Economic Forum have anything to do with it? They seem to be involved in everything lately.

An old video of a nicely dressed Zelenskyy has resurfaced

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bellamari8mazz/status/1622096968779546626?cxt=HHwWhIC-9amm7IItAAAA

Longer vid

https://mobile.twitter.com/Antoni_Amore/status/1628780253232390146?cxt=HHwWhICzsdfAy5otAAAA

What’s the real back story here with Biden and Ukraine? Does he owe them money or something? It’s crazy how Zelenskyy just asks for more money and Biden says yes. Then Zelenskyy gets on TV and calls US citizens “selfish” for not sending more money. We’ve got homeless living on the streets in California and New York.

It seems that Trump wanted to prevent the war from happening and talked about a peace deal

https://twitter.com/alx/status/1627902383828221953?cxt=HHwWgoC-0fqlvJctAAAA

[ChosenOne]

So, ignoring the weakass Kremlin propaganda...

Yes, the Bidens had shady dealings in Ukraine and particularly with Burisma, although this was before Zelensky's time.

Yes, Trump did try to warn everyone and him serving his second term, aka no rigged 2020 election, would've stopped the war from breaking out.

But now it has broken out and it must be fought, or it won't stop with Ukraine. And then you get World War 3 because every other country to the West is a member of NATO.

So the time is now. This is when we strike at Russia and nail the bastards to the wall once and for all. Biden is a laughable character but his administration actually has the right idea given the circumstances: help Ukraine win the war at all costs because they're fighting for all of us right now.

There is no appeasing dictators.

There is no negotiating with them.

There is only unseating them and letting the people they've oppressed for so long do the rest.

Biden's weakness in Afghanistan led to this war, and I don't think he'll make the same costly mistake twice. Not with China watching to gauge their options in Taiwan.

If the money is your main concern, while it's a legitimate and understandable one, I can assure you the US will get back every single cent they've put into Ukraine after the war, with the reconstruction and a whole new market opening up, not to mention them paying for all that gear. It’s not an expenditure, it's an investment.

And mind you, Biden's America is far from the only country helping Ukraine. The whole of Europe, Turkey, Israel, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, everyone in the free world is helping take down the cancer that is Putin's Russia without the need for boots on the ground. Are they all indebted to Ukraine, as you tried to imply...? Please.

Americans should know full well you can’t put a price tag on freedom.

[Coola Yagami]

Hey, I'm not saying I believe in it either way, I'm just reporting what I'm seeing on the interwebs.

Also another thing was the fact that we had high gas prices, which was blamed on Biden, but everyone was like 'it's happening all over the world, you can't blame this on Biden'..... but then Biden commented on Twitter that he will keep gas prices high 'as long as necessary'. So which is it, or did Biden just have another dementia moment?

But where is this war footage being shown. For it being 'all over', I haven't seen any. It felt like back during the Gulf War, you couldn't NOT see it even if you were trying to avoid it.

[Coola Yagami]

If the money is your main concern, while it's a legitimate and understandable one, I can assure you the US will get back every single cent they've put into Ukraine after the war, with the reconstruction and a whole new market opening up, not to mention them paying for all that gear. It’s not an expenditure, it's an investment.



Oh you KNOW we're never gonna see that money again.

[ChosenOne]

Hey, I'm not saying I believe in it either way, I'm just reporting what I'm seeing on the interwebs.

Also another thing was the fact that we had high gas prices, which was blamed on Biden, but everyone was like 'it's happening all over the world, you can't blame this on Biden'..... but then Biden commented on Twitter that he will keep gas prices high 'as long as necessary'. So which is it, or did Biden just have another dementia moment?

But where is this war footage being shown. For it being 'all over', I haven't seen any. It felt like back during the Gulf War, you couldn't NOT see it even if you were trying to avoid it.

This grossed me out so much at first that I wasn’t gonna touch it but maybe look at actual news. Don’t believe in everything you read online.

I guess Americans have a different perspective of this than Europeans, in that they think they can still afford to stay out of it.

Oh you KNOW we're never gonna see that money again.

No, I don’t know that. Quite the opposite.

But even if it were true, let's put it this way so that the choice is made clear: you can either help finance Ukraine's resistance to Russia's unlawful aggression now, or you can go the way of European nations pre-1939, bury your head in the sand while the threat grows unchecked, and be forced to send an entire generation of your country's young men to die for freedom at some point down the line when there's no one else standing between you and the enemy you so wilfully ignored.

Pay in money now or pay in blood later.

As the saying goes, those who don’t know History are doomed to repeat it.

Let's not.

[MikeandRaph87]

The Hauge is after Putin.
https://apnews.com/article/icc-putin-war-crimes-ukraine-9857eb68d827340394960eccf0589253

[IMJ]

The Hauge is after Putin.
https://apnews.com/article/icc-putin-war-crimes-ukraine-9857eb68d827340394960eccf0589253

It's about time there was legit international action made. Not that it will amount to much, but at least it's a solid position.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Clearly Putin’s on the edge. Do we really want to push his buttons enough to make him want to push THE button?

This is why I’ve recently purchased potassium iodide pills.

[MikeandRaph87]

It's about time there was legit international action made. Not that it will amount to much, but at least it's a solid position.

Yeah, I see it as more of a condemnation/scolding more than anything. However, it also limits the ability to travel for Putin and not able to attend summits himself. It's something at least. Alexander Lukashenko and Xi Jinping should see how it could effect them if they continue to cater to Vladimir.

[TurtleManiac]

Zelenskyy has hinted at the US will have to “send their sons and daughters” to fight the war in Ukraine. That means all the young college students and “stand with Ukraine” liberals on twitter with Ukraine flags in bio may be called to action.

https://mobile.twitter.com/alx/status/1630715571669987329

Just a wild thought: what if Putin isn’t the bad guy?

Like, hypothetically, suppose they defeat Putin, but the world still continues to crumble and fall to the World Economic Forum. Then what?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Zelenskyy has hinted at the US will have to “send their sons and daughters” to fight the war in Ukraine. That means all the young college students and “stand with Ukraine” liberals on twitter with Ukraine flags in bio may be called to action.

https://mobile.twitter.com/alx/status/1630715571669987329

Just a wild thought: what if Putin isn’t the bad guy?

Like, hypothetically, suppose they defeat Putin, but the world still continues to crumble and fall to the World Economic Forum. Then what?

I think there's no what-if regarding this, Putin is the bad guy, full stop.

And I think "they" have been slow in defeating Putin, because a Russia that is defeated quickly is not in their economic interest.

[TurtleManiac]

I think there's no what-if regarding this, Putin is the bad guy, full stop.

And I think "they" have been slow in defeating Putin, because a Russia that is defeated quickly is not in their economic interest.

“not in their economic interests” as in, they could have ended this by now? I thought this was about “defending democracy”. Sending billions to a Ukrainian cross-dresser so he can buy himself mansions, isn’t exactly in America’s best economic interests. De-stabilizing America, it all makes sense now. They want to drag this out. America falls to the World Economic Forum.

[Sumac]

“not in their economic interests” as in, they could have ended this by now? I thought this was about “defending democracy”. Sending billions to a Ukrainian cross-dresser so he can buy himself mansions, isn’t exactly in America’s best economic interests. De-stabilizing America, it all makes sense now. They want to drag this out. America falls to the World Economic Forum.
This is 1st grade ********.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

“not in their economic interests” as in, they could have ended this by now? I thought this was about “defending democracy”. Sending billions to a Ukrainian cross-dresser so he can buy himself mansions, isn’t exactly in America’s best economic interests. De-stabilizing America, it all makes sense now. They want to drag this out. America falls to the World Economic Forum.

The military strength of the United States alone, let alone all of NATO, is vastly superior to Russia and if applied in full force, would've sent all the Communist Animals back to their graves, even if Nuclear weapons became involved.

However, the powers that-be are not seeking to immediately destroy Russia, hence why ties have not completely severed despite Russsian brutality being unexcusable. A certain amount of pressure must be applied on Russia in the form of sanctions and arms supplies to Ukraine, so as to not alienate the masses who are rightfully sympathetic to the Ukranian plight.

The most moral solution is nothing short of a total lightning war, the shortest war to bring down The Marxist Hoardes and save Eastern Europe from their aggression. The longer the war drags on, the longer the danger of public indifference will begin to endanger Ukraine, and it will turn the tides just like Vietnam.

[ChosenOne]

Just a wild thought: what if Putin isn’t the bad guy?

Here's another wild thought: **** off with that commie rhetoric, comrade.

The military strength of the United States alone, let alone all of NATO, is vastly superior to Russia and if applied in full force, would've sent all the Communist Animals back to their graves, even if Nuclear weapons became involved.

No need to go that far, either of the two new NATO members alone could do it. Heck, let Poland have a go, they've been chomping at the bit for the longest time. Any of the top 10-15 members of NATO by themselves could make Russia their bitch, that's how much of a paper tiger that country is.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

It would be also be amazing to see Germany take a hard stance against Russia for the Degenerate Communist Menace they are, and not be plagued by war guilt.

[ChosenOne]

Evidently there will have to be a line to kick Russia's *ss, assuming Ukraine leaves anything for the rest of us.

[TurtleManiac]

The military strength of the United States alone, let alone all of NATO, is vastly superior to Russia and if applied in full force, would've sent all the Communist Animals back to their graves, even if Nuclear weapons became involved.

However, the powers that-be are not seeking to immediately destroy Russia, hence why ties have not completely severed despite Russsian brutality being unexcusable. A certain amount of pressure must be applied on Russia in the form of sanctions and arms supplies to Ukraine, so as to not alienate the masses who are rightfully sympathetic to the Ukranian plight.

The most moral solution is nothing short of a total lightning war, the shortest war to bring down The Marxist Hoardes and save Eastern Europe from their aggression. The longer the war drags on, the longer the danger of public indifference will begin to endanger Ukraine, and it will turn the tides just like Vietnam.

Exactly. Politicians want war, they get rich from it. Putin probably wouldn’t have made his move if we didn’t have a clown administration running the US. And I keep hearing people on twitter saying that Ukraine has NAZIs? And that they’re trying to make it a NATO country so that the US participates in the war. I guess they think Putin will conquer Ukraine than go on to conquer the rest of Europe, all by himself?

Here's another wild thought: **** off with that commie rhetoric, comrade.

That’s hilarious. I literally just said I don’t wanna see the US fall to the WEF, the biggest communist organization in the world, as a result of this war. US taxpayers are getting f****d over this war that nobody asked for, setting us up to be “saved” by the great reset. You seem to be 100% on board with what the elite globalists want you to think and feel about this “current thing”. Maybe you’re the “commie”?

[ChosenOne]

That’s hilarious. I literally just said I don’t wanna see the US fall to the WEF, the biggest communist organization in the world, as a result of this war. US taxpayers are getting f****d over this war that nobody asked for, setting us up to be “saved” by the great reset. You seem to be 100% on board with what the elite globalists want you to think and feel about this “current thing”. Maybe you’re the “commie”?

Talk to the hand: ..i..

[MikeandRaph87]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japans-kishida-visit-ukraine-meet-zelenskiy-nhk-2023-03-21/

While Jinping pretends to make peace meeting Putin then Zelensky Japan officially aligns with NATO, Australia, and Israel assisting Ukraine.

[ChosenOne]

Japan officially aligns with NATO, Australia, and Israel assisting Ukraine.

Good. Now the entire civilized world has come together.

[Andrew NDB]

Doesn't Japan not really even have a military anymore?

[Sumac]

Doesn't Japan not really even have a military anymore?
They do have an army, its just not called like that, its called Japanese Self-Defense Forces, since post-war constitution prohibited them from having a regular army. With the neighbors like North Korea and China you must have an army.

[Cowabung-Gal]

0MTliGOy_r0

The SCOTUS whistleblower still hasn’t been caught yet, but this guy is immediately hunted down?

So Ukraine is apparently losing the war, and Biden’s been sending American troops there without Congressional authorization?

You mean the government lied to us?? Say it ain’t so!! :goof:

[Bahamut810]

So Ukraine is apparently losing the war, and Biden’s been sending American troops there without Congressional authorization?

The president does have the power, as the commander in chief to send the troops into conflicts without congressional approval. He cant send them for an extended period of time, and he cant declare war...but he can send forces out.

[TurtleManiac]

Biden Regime Sends $325 Million More in Security Aid to Ukraine, Following $2.1 Billion Arm Aid Sent 4 Days Earlier

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/06/biden-regime-sends-325-million-more-security-aid/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=biden-regime-sends-325-million-more-security-aid

[ChosenOne]

That Burisma deal is really paying off!

[MikeandRaph87]

The Wagner Group field leader sent out a video stating that Russia's troops are getting into it's way and it's reason for invasion is based on nothing but lies. Kremlin immediately denounces it. It cannot be long now before an official divorce.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/russian-mercenary-chief-appears-threaten-203300794.html

Here it's suggesting Wagner could attack Russian troops. Be nice if it coordinated with Ukraine and freed the occupied areas but its probably asking for too much. It's like Shredder hired Rat King to kill the Turtles, but the scummy opportunist that Rat King is isn't helping the Turtles so much as wanting to ruin Shredder's current plan before leaving the scene.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/23/europe/russia-mod-wagner-yevgeny-prigozhin-intl/index.html

[ChosenOne]

After Prigozhin hacked public TV broadcasts to deliver his condemnation of the invasion, a 400 vehicle-strong Wagner column is currently advancing on Moscow, and the city is on high alert. Checkpoints are being set up along the main highways and apparently the Internet, or at least Google, has been blocked in the entire country.

[Sumac]

After Prigozhin hacked public TV broadcasts to deliver his condemnation of the invasion, a 400 vehicle-strong Wagner column is currently advancing on Moscow, and the city is on high alert. Checkpoints are being set up along the main highways and apparently the Internet, or at least Google, has been blocked in the entire country.
That is not true, at least for now. Basically no-one knows what is going on right now. Official news obfuscate everything. Independent sources basically spam various rumors, which can not checked.

I am not sure about about hacked TV stations - most likely those are lies. 400 vehicle-strong is also seem to be an exaggeration.

However, something do happen.
We are in for an interesting times anyway.

[IMJ]

I am actually experiencing some indecisive confusion about the current perception of what is going on.

There are a lot of people beginning to take the position that Zelensky is some kind of "dictator" and that we shouldn't be helping them against being invaded. It's cognitive dissonance in it's purest form.

I feel like the calculus is simple. There are national borders, Putin is trying to impose his will in a flagrant invasion and crossed those borders and killed people. The end.

I dunno.

[ChosenOne]

That is not true, at least for now. Basically no-one knows what is going on right now. Official news obfuscate everything. Independent sources basically spam various rumors, which can not checked.

I am not sure about about hacked TV stations - most likely those are lies. 400 vehicle-strong is also seem to be an exaggeration.

However, something do happen.
We are in for an interesting times anyway.

I've seen videos of the hacked broadcasts on the news. The fact that you, on the ground, aren't certain of what's going on is the regime propaganda working as intended.

Wagner forces have captured Rostov and suffered a couple of bombings already, while Putin delivers angry speeches. "Interesting" is putting it mildly...

I hope you and yours stay safe, and let the bastards take each other out.

I am actually experiencing some indecisive confusion about the current perception of what is going on.

There are a lot of people beginning to take the position that Zelensky is some kind of "dictator" and that we shouldn't be helping them against being invaded. It's cognitive dissonance in it's purest form.

I feel like the calculus is simple. There are national borders, Putin is trying to impose his will in a flagrant invasion and crossed those borders and killed people. The end.

I dunno.

Those people are pro-Russia trolls. Ignore them. Your calculus is quite correct. The real crux of the matter is that this invasion shouldn’t even have started, it only did because of the current void in leadership in the West.

[TurtleManiac]

There does seem to be some suspicious money laundering activity though, or are we supposed to believe it was really just an “honest mistake” that the Biden admin “accidentally” sent an additional $6.2 Billion dollars of U.S. taxpayer money to Ukraine because of a Pentagon accounting error?

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-weapons-surplus-funding-72eeb6119439146f1939d5b1973a44ef

The same admin who sends IRS agents to audit any small business transactions over $600.

[ChosenOne]

There does seem to be some suspicious money laundering activity though, or are we supposed to believe it was really just an “honest mistake” that the Biden admin “accidentally” sent an additional $6.2 Billion dollars of U.S. taxpayer money to Ukraine because of a Pentagon accounting error?

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-weapons-surplus-funding-72eeb6119439146f1939d5b1973a44ef

The same admin who sends IRS agents to audit any small business transactions over $600.

That was before Zelensky's time, though.

[Sumac]

Well, seems coup was a nothingburger.

[IMJ]

Well, seems coup was a nothingburger.

No??! I was just reading that the Wagner group is organizing a revolution....

[ChosenOne]

Well, seems coup was a nothingburger.

Rattling Putin enough to make him flee Moscow and hastily cobble together a deal to stop the coup isn't nothing. This was his Afghanistan moment right here. Russia is weak, Putin is weak, and now the whole world knows it. To be continued.

[Mayhem]

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-24-23/index.html

Why would Wagner boss make a deal with Belarus's Lusenko and stop his March on Moscow?
Can’t answer the second (although my hot take was he was finally that pissed off about lack of ammo and treatment of his men he had to make a statement, and apparently Russian command was looking to usurp his authority), but for the first apparently they have both known each other for a long time. Putin probably asked his lackey Lusenko to step in and diplomacy.

[ChosenOne]

Yep, Prigozhin was even Putin's personal chef at one point. As a dictator, you probably need to trust the cook more than your own mother.

[ChosenOne]

https://news.sky.com/story/biden-says-putin-losing-war-in-iraq-in-latest-mishap-12911236

The leader of the free world, ladies and gentlemen!

[oldmanwinters]

https://news.sky.com/story/biden-says-putin-losing-war-in-iraq-in-latest-mishap-12911236

The leader of the free world, ladies and gentlemen!

Maybe it really is all about Middle Eastern crude oil after all?

[MikeandRaph87]

A couple of generals are out of the job as Putin attempts to do damage control with his lies being exposed within the military. Yevgeny pops up with a brief message to show he is rolling over in Belarus. However I wonder for how long.
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/yevgeny-prigozhin-wagner-group-russia/2023/07/03/id/1125812/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-zelensky-calls-putin-weak-100156243.html
This is interesting.

[ChosenOne]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-zelensky-calls-putin-weak-100156243.html
This is interesting.

Indeed. Putin and Russia have now been utterly exposed as a spineless paper tiger, just like Biden was back in Afghanistan. May the most inept ruler lose!

[TurtleManiac]

Biden Admin sending another $200 Million to Ukraine

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4151858-us-announces-new-200m-ukraine-aid-package/amp/

But not to Ohio, or Hawaii. They could use some help too…

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I don't have a problem with aid to Ukraine, but I am concerned that publicly advertised aid packages are a cover for American and Russian ties which run very, very deep.

[IMJ]

I don't have a problem with aid to Ukraine, but I am concerned that publicly advertised aid packages are a cover for American and Russian ties which run very, very deep.

Could you expand on this a bit? What are you thinking? Where are you coming from with the thought about deep American-Russian ties?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Could you expand on this a bit? What are you thinking? Where are you coming from with the thought about deep American-Russian ties?

I think there are elements within the U.S. government which are biased in favour of the Kremlin, and prioritise economic ties with Russia over Ukraine's sovereignty.

These elements, if they get their way, will stab Ukraine in the back and leave them at the mercy of the enemy. "The Shadow Government", so to speak.

[Sumac]

I think there are elements within the U.S. government which are biased in favour of the Kremlin, and prioritise economic ties with Russia over Ukraine's sovereignty.

These elements, if they get their way, will stab Ukraine in the back and leave them at the mercy of the enemy. "The Shadow Government", so to speak.
Another "smart" conspiracy theory. :roll:

[IMJ]

I think there are elements within the U.S. government which are biased in favour of the Kremlin, and prioritise economic ties with Russia over Ukraine's sovereignty.

These elements, if they get their way, will stab Ukraine in the back and leave them at the mercy of the enemy. "The Shadow Government", so to speak.

Is the root of your thoughts here basically the whole Biden/Hunter Biden crime family thing?

I'm not prodding in opposition of what you are saying, I'm just honestly looking to know where you are coming from with it.

[TurtleManiac]

Also worth noting that the newly released bank records on 8/9 revealed the Biden family was paid $20 Million by foreign oligarchs including Russia and Ukraine

https://nypost.com/2023/08/09/hunter-biden-linked-foreign-haul-at-20m-with-russia-ukraine-kazak-transfers-comer/amp/

And right after that news broke, DOJ designates special counsel and indicts Trump again. Something weird going on for sure.

[Sumac]

Also worth noting that the newly released bank records on 8/9 revealed the Biden family was paid $20 Million by foreign oligarchs including Russia and Ukraine

https://nypost.com/2023/08/09/hunter-biden-linked-foreign-haul-at-20m-with-russia-ukraine-kazak-transfers-comer/amp/

And right after that news broke, DOJ designates special counsel and indicts Trump again. Something weird going on for sure.
Or those events are not connected at all.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Is the root of your thoughts here basically the whole Biden/Hunter Biden crime family thing?

I'm not prodding in opposition of what you are saying, I'm just honestly looking to know where you are coming from with it.

Thank you for your respectful tone.

My thought isn't related to the Hunter/Biden scandal, though I admittedly know very little about that particular event beyond surface level headlines.

Rather, its more related to the past Soviet Espionage cases in the United States. The Soviet Union may have collapsed, but I don't think that the Russians ever stopped meddling in American affairs.

The motive is there for Putin do such a thing, and I have no doubt that he couldn't do it without the help of traitorous American government officals.

[Sumac]

The motive is there for Putin do such a thing, and I have no doubt that he couldn't do it without the help of traitorous American government officals.
This is speculation quite similar to the from early days of modern Russia: CIA bought some Soviet officials to destroy USSR.
Needless to say, no matter how you look at it it is quiet illogical.

[Mayhem]

Not suspicious in the slightest…!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66599774

[Sumac]

Being remembered as a coward who half-assed his own revolution...what a legacy to leave.

[Mayhem]

Democratic of course, people have a choice… take it or leave it!

[Mayhem]

TThe motive is there for Putin do such a thing, and I have no doubt that he couldn't do it without the help of traitorous American government officals.
Not even necessarily that of course, one of those in the FBI team who was tasked with investigating Trump Russia money links got arrested at the start of the year for helping Russian oligarchs launder money out of the country...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/23/fbi-charles-mcgonigal-oleg-deripaska-russia-putin

[Andrew NDB]

Not even necessarily that of course, one of those in the FBI team who was tasked with investigating Trump Russia money links got arrested at the start of the year for helping Russian oligarchs launder money out of the country...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/23/fbi-charles-mcgonigal-oleg-deripaska-russia-putin

Are we doing this again? With a straight face?

[FrederikWolferson]

Not even necessarily that of course, one of those in the FBI team who was tasked with investigating Trump Russia money links got arrested at the start of the year for helping Russian oligarchs launder money out of the country...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/23/fbi-charles-mcgonigal-oleg-deripaska-russia-putin

The Guardian...disregarded immediately.

[Mayhem]

The Guardian...disregarded immediately.
Why, because you think they’re left wing? :lol: you do realise the story was all over all worldwide media, I just chose the first link that Google gave me.

[Sumac]

Why, because you think they’re left wing? :lol: you do realise the story was all over all worldwide media, I just chose the first link that Google gave me.
Because, Guardian, like many other mainstream media is a garbage and sometimes offers biased reports.

They are not reporters - they are paid propagandists on a behalf of whoever pays more.

[FrederikWolferson]

Why, because you think they’re left wing? :lol: you do realise the story was all over all worldwide media, I just chose the first link that Google gave me.

Because they are British.

[Mayhem]

Because they are British.
Seriously? British media generally has more integrity and less bias than US media :lol: (not saying there isn’t, just less)

[Cowabung-Gal]

rXuhDfNyFXk

[Cowabung-Gal]

Oh this is rich:

0Htzr6A2qfY

Bunch o’ seals clapping for the worst kind of people as usual

https://media.tenor.com/QakQ6RoQNbsAAAAC/seal-clap.gif

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Canadian Parliament is based.

[Sumac]

Bunch o’ seals clapping for the worst kind of people as usual
Talking about most unfortunate accidents happening to the most deserving people...

Not to say Trudeau (and Canadian politicians are) Nazi or anything similar, but from everything I know of him, he is an idiot, who loves power and such people are just useless idiots for others and pain in the ass for the rest of the world. And given low caliber of Western politicians in last few decades, it already has more than enough of them.

And it seems Canadian politicians are not better en masse.

[TurtleManiac]

“Ukraine is freaking out” about U.S. aid after McCarthy removed as house speaker

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-mccarthy-united-states-speaker-war-russia-invasion-weapons-ammunition/

Putin vows to take out “global terrorist” Klaus Schwab

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/putin-warns-globalist-terrorist-klaus-schwab-his-days-are-numbered/

[Vegita-San]

I feel sorry for the citizens caught in the middle, but otherwise, good.

it's weird how this thing went from total support, to **** 'em in a matter of months. I started questioning it when us citizens went over to fight for them. THAT was weird.

[Sumac]

I feel sorry for the citizens caught in the middle, but otherwise, good.
Shut up, please, and don't show your ignorance in that question.
Don't be like Obama.

it's weird how this thing went from total support, to **** 'em in a matter of months. I started questioning it when us citizens went over to fight for them. THAT was weird.
What the **** are you talking about?
Links? Proves?

[Vegita-San]

Shut up, please, and don't show your ignorance in that question.
Don't be like Obama.


What the **** are you talking about?
Links? Proves?

the whole thing is apparently a money laundering scheme between the us, zylinsky and the democrats. with the poor people in ukraine caught in the middle. it's been talked about for months here. and citizens are tired of all our funds being sent over seas, when our own military and places like hawaii are not getting funded for their natural disasters and left to rot.

[Vegita-San]

and I wasn't referring to the stupid putin comment, but 'zelinsky freaking out'..

[Andrew NDB]

The thing is, at a certain point we need to know a plan. What's the off-ramp here? Let's just keep giving them billions of dollars every year, potentially forever, even as we're in the middle of a recession? Ukraine isn't ever going to "win" this war, so what are we talking about here, if it doesn't involve negotiations (or the pressure to negotiate, at least) of some kind?

[Coola Yagami]

The thing is, at a certain point we need to know a plan. What's the off-ramp here? Let's just keep giving them billions of dollars every year, potentially forever, even as we're in the middle of a recession? Ukraine isn't ever going to "win" this war, so what are we talking about here, if it doesn't involve negotiations (or the pressure to negotiate, at least) of some kind?

After a while, one has to wonder if the money (or at least part of it) is only going to the Ukraine in quotation marks, and it's actually being funneled elsewhere.

It still pisses me off that one of the conditions of that second stimulus checks was whether or not they could get money to the Ukraine, as if to say, if it was a flat no for Ukraine, then screw it, no stimulus for anyone, **** Americans.

[Sumac]

the whole thing is apparently a money laundering scheme between the us, zylinsky and the democrats. with the poor people in ukraine caught in the middle. it's been talked about for months here. and citizens are tired of all our funds being sent over seas, when our own military and places like hawaii are not getting funded for their natural disasters and left to rot.
This is a complete and retarded ********, barely better than any conspiracy theory about aliens and what not.
Also, sounds like a Russian propaganda.

The thing is, at a certain point we need to know a plan. What's the off-ramp here? Let's just keep giving them billions of dollars every year, potentially forever, even as we're in the middle of a recession? Ukraine isn't ever going to "win" this war, so what are we talking about here, if it doesn't involve negotiations (or the pressure to negotiate, at least) of some kind?
This line of thinking is retarded as well.
Remember history and why Obama's external politics were retarded and how and why they had led to this situation.
If US wants to retain, whatever reputation and toke domination they still have in EU they must pay for that. Nothing US won't be able to handle.

After a while, one has to wonder if the money (or at least part of it) is only going to the Ukraine in quotation marks, and it's actually being funneled elsewhere.
Yeah, they are laundered to the Biden's personal account in Hawaii or in secret Reptiloid base in Arctica.
More conspiracies! More!

[Vegita-San]

This is a complete and retarded ********, barely better than any conspiracy theory about aliens and what not.
Also, sounds like a Russian propaganda.


This line of thinking is retarded as well.
Remember history and why Obama's external politics were retarded and how and why they had led to this situation.
If US wants to retain, whatever reputation and toke domination they still have in EU they must pay for that. Nothing US won't be able to handle.


Yeah, they are laundered to the Biden's personal account in Hawaii or in secret Reptiloid base in Arctica.
More conspiracies! More!

you've seen the biden crime family's relation to china, yes? lots of business dealings there.

and with the dems always accusing trump of russian collusion... yeah. not too hard a leap to make in most people's minds. deal with one devil, they could deal with them all.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, they are laundered to the Biden's personal account in Hawaii or in secret Reptiloid base in Arctica.
More conspiracies! More!

The issue is, it might not be laundered to those 'conspiracy places', but it sounds like it's being laundered somewhere.

No one on a Ninja Turtles forum is going to know where, but some of it sure as hell ain't going to the Ukraine.

[TurtleManiac]

The “conspiracy theory” is that Joe Biden paid off some prosecutor in Ukraine so that he wouldn’t investigate the shady Ukraine business dealings of his crack-smoking son, Hunter, and Trump was impeached just for asking about that. Biden also allegedly gets a cut of the money, “10% for the big guy”. That’s why Biden has been funding Ukraine billions of dollars, to cover his and his son’s corruption, in the name of “stand with Ukraine” for the greater good, that’s the “conspiracy theory” about Ukraine. Also Zelensky is a coke-head as well, you can tell the way he’s always sniffling and snorting.

Also very suspicious that right after McCarthy is removed as house speaker, Israel gets terror bombed by Iran and a new war is about to start. Another money laundering operation for corrupt politicians with innocent people caught in the middle.

[Mayhem]

when our own military are not getting funded
What the **** are you talking about? You do realise that the money going to Ukraine equates to about 4% of the overall US military budget per year? Military not getting funded my arse.

[Vegita-San]

if you paid attention to things going on, as I understand it... the government shutdown came into play. supposedly, if the government was shut down, military paychecks would have been stopped,but funding too ukrain would continue.

[Warhorse]

The issue is, it might not be laundered to those 'conspiracy places', but it sounds like it's being laundered somewhere.

No one on a Ninja Turtles forum is going to know where, but some of it sure as hell ain't going to the Ukraine.

Part of me wonders if it's being laundered to fund the terrorism going on in Israel right now.

[The Deadman]

Also very suspicious that right after McCarthy is removed as house speaker, Israel gets terror bombed by Iran and a new war is about to start. Another money laundering operation for corrupt politicians with innocent people caught in the middle.

His own party booted him out though, I could see the ties to the Democrats if they were the majority that booted, but they werent this time around.

[Sumac]

you've seen the biden crime family's relation to china, yes? lots of business dealings there.

and with the dems always accusing trump of russian collusion... yeah. not too hard a leap to make in most people's minds. deal with one devil, they could deal with them all.
Not sure about China, but nevertheless it sounds like a long winded ********, since in general it is a netloss for the West, when it comes to reputation and economy.

The issue is, it might not be laundered to those 'conspiracy places', but it sounds like it's being laundered somewhere.
Well, unless we have general idea what is going on with those money, I think its too early to count chickens.

The “conspiracy theory” is that Joe Biden paid off some prosecutor in Ukraine so that he wouldn’t investigate the shady Ukraine business dealings of his crack-smoking son, Hunter, and Trump was impeached just for asking about that. Biden also allegedly gets a cut of the money, “10% for the big guy”. That’s why Biden has been funding Ukraine billions of dollars, to cover his and his son’s corruption, in the name of “stand with Ukraine” for the greater good, that’s the “conspiracy theory” about Ukraine. Also Zelensky is a coke-head as well, you can tell the way he’s always sniffling and snorting.
One thing is not related to the other. Once again, this whole thing is a netloss for the West in terms of money, reputation and influence.
As for the Zelensky - unfounded ******** again.

[Barkworm]

Remember to stay in school, kids! Don't get your education from Google.

[Andrew NDB]

There might be... a little weirdness in this thread, for sure.



This line of thinking is retarded as well.
Remember history and why Obama's external politics were retarded and how and why they had led to this situation.
If US wants to retain, whatever reputation and toke domination they still have in EU they must pay for that. Nothing US won't be able to handle.

No, not at the moment. Goods and food and gas have risen exorbitantly here, largely due to the inflationary spending here since the last election cycle, and it's only getting worse. The last thing we can be doing is throwing billions at a war we have nothing to do with. Though initially it was smart... there is a lot to be said about sending money to Ukraine to decimate Russia's military force as like a 3rd party who can't be held accountable, from a US military perspective. It worked. But there has to be an end point. Or at least, a talking point. As it stands, this is the very definition of an endless war. Potentially. If "what is the goal?" as a question doesn't get an answer, that's a problem.

[Mayhem]

As it stands, this is the very definition of an endless war. Potentially. If "what is the goal?" as a question doesn't get an answer, that's a problem.
It only persists because of Putin. Maybe that's where it needs to be centred? We could really do with a successful Valkyrie moment here... for the sake of general stability and the future of Russia's younger citizens who will be subjected to another round of conscription shortly. You know it's bad when Russia's police forces are in turmoil with lots of officers leaving due to pay and conditions, but as you're immune from being rounded up in the army if you're an officer, suddenly a swathe of them are staying put...

[Sumac]

Remember to stay in school, kids! Don't get your education from Google.
And preferably don't get your data from conspiracy-laden second-hand sources.

Or at least, a talking point. As it stands, this is the very definition of an endless war. Potentially. If "what is the goal?" as a question doesn't get an answer, that's a problem.
"Talking point" is basically "an endless conflict", since it inevitably will be resumed at a later date.

[Vegita-San]

There might be... a little weirdness in this thread, for sure.




notice the people who don't follow what goes on here are not from here? and calling us ignorant?

How's that freedom in canada going, BTW? you might want to pay attention.

[Barkworm]

Which Canadian posted in this thread?

[Vegita-San]

referencing another thread that, IIRC, said canada 'wasn't that bad'.. sometimes people do not pay attention to what goes on in their own country.

[Barkworm]

Oh, so it's got nothing to do with this thread, alrighty!

[CyberCubed]

I can't believe its going to be 2 years soon since this war started and literally nothing was gained but a massive loss of lives on both sides. What a colossal waste of time. It seems like Putin will never give in either so this is just going to keep going for who knows how long.

[Andrew NDB]

I can't believe its going to be 2 years soon since this war started and literally nothing was gained but a massive loss of lives on both sides. What a colossal waste of time. It seems like Putin will never give in either so this is just going to keep going for who knows how long.

The hope is that he could be pressured into negotiating from the outside... which, for example, Biden has shown no interest in doing. Biden's plan, like for everything else, is just to endlessly hand out money.

[Coola Yagami]

Well, unless we have general idea what is going on with those money, I think its too early to count chickens.




That might be true, and I seem to run into a lot of this whenever other forums start arguing politics. The fact remains, a bunch of random weirdos on a Ninja Turtles form (or any other forum) isn't going to know these things. Not unless any of us know a person on the inside.

Just because WE can't figure it out, doesn't mean it's not happening.

Just because this or that doesn't make sense, or sounds too stupid to be true, also doesn't mean it's not happening.

Lord knows there's a lot of stupid and/or selfish people in power nowadays that are stupid and/or selfish enough to do stupid and/or selfish things no matter just how stupid and/or selfish they sound on paper.

[TurtleManiac]

Biden considering huge $100 billion dollar Ukraine spending package to last thru the 2024 election without having to worry about policy opposition

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-considering-huge-100-billion-ukraine-spending-package-telegraph

[Galactus]

The hope is that he could be pressured into negotiating from the outside... which, for example, Biden has shown no interest in doing. Biden's plan, like for everything else, is just to endlessly hand out money.

When the war started I believed the best thing would be to push through talks as soon as possible. This was based on the belief that the war was unwinnable for Ukraine so the most pragmatic thing to do would be to negotiate but now Ukraine has done a much better job as defending their country from Russia than anyone ever expected so frankly why should they give up an inch of their land when they don't have to?

Even when I believed that serious peace talks should be done sooner rather than later it was obvious Putin would not be willing to concede anything. That has definitely not changed.

The truth is if Ukraine falls Putin will go after the other former Soviet countries. While this conflict has shown us that may not be as easy for Putin as we initially thought that's still his end goal. If that happens that's bad for the US and the entire Western world. The free world should be doing everything short of escalating the conflict to make sure that does not happen. That means yes throwing money at them. It's still a small drop in the bucket of America's spending.

[Sumac]

The hope is that he could be pressured into negotiating from the outside... which, for example, Biden has shown no interest in doing. Biden's plan, like for everything else, is just to endlessly hand out money.
What else he can do? Get into a direct conflict with a country which has nuclear weapon?
There is a reason, why outsiders are trying to keep things in check.

[CyberCubed]

Remember when someone came into this thread a few months back (or maybe a year ago), and said this war is "fake" and "it's not really happening" and not to believe anything you see online.

:lol:

The way people will somehow convince themselves something in the world isn't happening is baffling. I still remember the 9/11 deniers in 2001/2002 claiming the Twin Towers were still there and haven't been destroyed...yet anyone who lives in NY can tell you they're gone.