Was the Super-Shredder Oroku Saki???

[Jester]

Hey, just recently i heard the theory that Super-Shredder was not Oroku Saki. What are your thoughts. I think the movie might give some clues that it may not be...."How much longer??!!" "I've told u i don't know it could take time...days!!" I think this might, unless Super-Shredder is an exception proove that saki isn't Super-shredder. He was mutated within seconds. And in NT:NM he's back to normal. Some may argue that these 2 series aren't related but the lair is the same and shredder says he'll slice of splinter's other ear...they're at least related. So who was supper shredder?? I have 3 ideas....go with me on this... 1. any random foot 2. Freddy the kid that trailed the 'Paid to be suspisious" but not suspisious of him april or 3. the foot trainer ("we work in consealment!")
What do u think of my hypothises....if this is already a line of descussion...then fil me in i just wanna know what ya'll think.

[Coola Yagami]

He's Kevin Nash.


Maybe the ooze works differently on humans, after all the ooze from the movie/comics makes animals have more of a humanized shape, but what if the subject was a human to begin with??? Plus, it looks like he drank it, maybe that's also different.

[Jester]

true....maybe ingestion as as means of mutation makes the reaction quicker than meer skin contact....never know....and maybe it worked it's course...and he de-mutated....but i doubt that. I still think that the Super-Shredder is not saki but one of his lackies

[Dane E5R]

The ooze in the movies makes things bigger, as exhibited by the dandelions, and if they have a brain, it generally makes them more intelligent. While Saki didn't exactly become smarter, he was certainly bigger. This is an interesting idea, though. It'd be sweet if Super Shredder was one huge Shredder clone like in Return to New York.

[Kali]

I think this was originally my theory. It makes sense to me. Totally excluding TNM, lets just look at TMNT 2.

We know that the ooze mutated the Turtles and Splinter, so that overnight they had doubled in size. Tokka and Rahzar took long enough to mutate that Shredder got impatient, implying at least several hours.

And Shredder becomes Super Shredder in what, two minutes? Something's off, even if we assume Shredder hadn't even fully mutated. There's also the question of his armor, since there's no proof before hand that the ooze effects inorganic materials.

All "movie logic" aside, I think Shredder mutated one of his own men to pose as himself, so that in case the Turtles won, he could escape freely, and plot while the Turtles believed he was dead. I think that's why he made a big deal about having another vial, so that when he mutated, they wouldn't be surprised.

[Jester]

sounds good to me...so shredder could still turn up in the move universe....but who do u think it is?? I know it's not tatsu...he fought the TMNT in the end....but who do u think it could be??

[Kali]

sounds good to me...so shredder could still turn up in the move universe....but who do u think it is?? I know it's not tatsu...he fought the TMNT in the end....but who do u think it could be??
Just a random Foot goon. The only guy we have a name for is Freddy, and I hope it wasn't him, 'cause he was cute.

No, I just think it was a random soldier. After all, in Shredder's mind, they're all expendable.

[Voltron]

Everyone knows it was Vanilla Ice.

[Skeletoncrew]

Huh. I'd never thought about the possibility. It would make sense for him to send in someone else. Gotta cover his own ass. But, unless there's a sequel that says otherwise (and I don't consider NM a sequel), I assume it was Shredder himself.

BTW, cute avatar Voltron!

[Jarrah White]

Perhaps Oruko Saki found one of those anti-mutagen cudes and ate one, thus rendering him back to his normal state.

[Dane E5R]

That is so original cartoon.. We're talkin' movies, yo.

[Jarrah White]

It's the only explaination I can think of, either that or it wore off.

[raphael90]

Posted by Voltron:
Everyone knows it was Vanilla Ice.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Good one!!!

Back to the topic at hand, the theories presented on Super Shredder are interesting. For some reason part of me doesn't think the writers were going for something as in-depth unless they planned on bringing Shredder back into NM or an upcoming mutation. If it wasn't intended, they sure did overlook the mutation time thing and that's tacky but not surprising seeing some movies always lack good logic. I never even thought about all these details of the mutation until now....

On the other hand, its possible someone else could have been Super Shredder...I wonder if perhaps they weren't planning at the start of Ooze to set the stage for a totally different movie than the third. What with the Utrom scene cut, its possible they also had a role for the Shredder to play in the third then scrapped that idea??? I dunno, I'm not totally knowledgeable on TMNT trivia.

Ahhh...such unsolved mysteries and brain teasers of TMNT...interesting thread. :)

[Gremlin]

Everyone knows it was Vanilla Ice.

That guy is pure evil :lol:

[redsai4lex]

saki got oozed!

[Jo Dawn]

All "movie logic" aside, I think Shredder mutated one of his own men to pose as himself, so that in case the Turtles won, he could escape freely, and plot while the Turtles believed he was dead. I think that's why he made a big deal about having another vial, so that when he mutated, they wouldn't be surprised.

Wow, y'know, I've never thought about it that way before. That's a very interesting idea. That makes alot of sense.

[Jester]

well...there was a line where in relation to the mutagen it's said. Perry: and as we know, Leonardo, one or two rather large mishaps have occured! Leo: Yeah Tokka Rahzar and the shredder.... Could that point to an intended early confrentation with supershredder or just me reading way to much into the dialogue

[Coola Yagami]

I think he meant cause Shredder now had the ooze in his possession and was a bigger threat because of it.

[Jester]

i thought i was reading more into that....thanks

[jestergoblin]

wow... I never thought of it that way...

Also, I believe it is safe to assume that ooze doesn't effect inorganic material. How would they be able to transport it then?

[Psycho Andy]

I think something that has been neglected to be taken into consideration, though, is that Prof. Perry said he "didn't know" how long it could be. Days, months, whatever, sure. It COULD HAVE taken that long. But, obviously, it didn't, since Tokka and Rahzar were pretty huge, really fast. It obviously didn't take them 15 years, like it did the TMNT.

Running on that note, don't forget that it didn't take Tokka and Rahzar that long to de-mutate back into their non-mutant form. If these two could de-mutate in the span of just a few minutes, couldn't it be possible for Oroku Saki to go from Shredder to Super Shredder in almost the same amount of time?

Perry had said that he'd altered the Ooze, to speed up the process of mutating Tokka and Rahzar. It could've been a vial of this "Altered Ooze" that Shredder injested, to become all Super-ified, as quickly as he had.

Not that I'm shooting down the idea. I think it's a really good one, and a brilliant observation (and the type of thing Marvel Comics writers would use to get themselves out of unpopular changes to characters made by previous writers). I'm just making sure that all the arguments are on the table, before a decision is made. :lol:

[Jarrah White]

Sounds logical, but I still find it strange that Shredder's armour mutated with him :-?

[malignant]

Sounds logical, but I still find it strange that Shredder's armour mutated with him :-?

It was a movie, people.

[Jester]

true...but tokka and rahzar were also bigger than the tmnt pre-mutation anyway....they were pet turtles tokka and rahzar were zoo animals....esentialy....but u r right perry did alter the ooze...but to make them stupid....not grow faster...and yes they de-mutated quick...but that's just movie non-logic....and it's not the same stuff anyway...it's anti-mutagen not mutagen....and was created off hand...maybe with instentanious de-mutation as a factor....dunna....these are all just guesses....they are probably disproved in other parts of the movie...dunna

[ZariusTwo]

Super Shredder was Kevin Nash

[Demented Utrom]

In the Video Games Shredder dumped Mutagen on Himself and became Super Shredder and got these weird powers.

[Kali]

Perry had said that he'd altered the Ooze, to speed up the process of mutating Tokka and Rahzar. It could've been a vial of this "Altered Ooze" that Shredder injested, to become all Super-ified, as quickly as he had.
Except he said he'd altered the mutagen to make them "intelectually inferior, and thus less dangerous."

It's possible that this change could have effected the rate of growth, though.

[Meira-Bates]

Perry had said that he'd altered the Ooze, to speed up the process of mutating Tokka and Rahzar. It could've been a vial of this "Altered Ooze" that Shredder injested, to become all Super-ified, as quickly as he had.
Except he said he'd altered the mutagen to make them "intelectually inferior, and thus less dangerous."

It's possible that this change could have effected the rate of growth, though.

It's also possible that Perry altered it as a way to stall things if you think of it. You know, make the needed dose of mutagen MUCH larger so he could hopefully be rescued somehow before the mutants came to be. As for the armor...I can't think of any logical way to explain that...but if Shredder's ('Shredder's'?) armor mutated with him, like it were a part of his own body THAT would explain why the dock could kill him when the trash compactor couldn't. Before mutation his armor protected him from the trash compactor enough he could live and recover. After mutation his armor no longer functioned as well, possibly not at all, so the dock killed him X.x