Bebop, Rocksteady and Venus.

[Jarrah White]

I have a question, why does Laird hate these three characters so much?

[Utrom]

Peter Laird just dosn't like Venus. I don't think he actually hates Bebop and Rocksteady; he just dosn't want them to be a part of TMNT continuity. :)

[Taloniss]

He doesn't hate B & R so much as think that they wouldn't fit into anything but the old show.

He hates Venus because she's ruined an important aspect of the TMNT mythos.

Those would be my guesses.

[Drtooth]

Did anyone even actually LIKE venus for that matter? just kidding.

As a cartoonist, I can see where he stands on the characters. I don't know if he hates Beeb and Rock, but Venus is a justifyable disgust. They (Saban? Fox Kids? Some guy in marketing?) added a character to something he and Kevin created totally ruining the four character yin yang they set up. Lets say there was a fourth stooge who didn't really do anything. he doesn't add much, just takes away from the others. A number of times I wrote little fan fic type comics, and I stupidly added an extra character to something, and it totally threw off the balance of the others. Besides that, he didn't create her (did he? I'm prob'ly out of the loop).

As for bebop and rocksteady... well... I do know a lot of comic purists hate those 2. I like them, but in the aspect of the classic TMNT series. I don't think characters like that would work in the comic book or the new series. I think that Peter doesn't want them to leave the arch of the 1980's cartoon, since that was their niche.

[Jarrah White]

Did anyone even actually LIKE venus for that matter? just kidding.

As a cartoonist, I can see where he stands on the characters. I don't know if he hates Beeb and Rock, but Venus is a justifyable disgust. They (Saban? Fox Kids? Some guy in marketing?) added a character to something he and Kevin created totally ruining the four character yin yang they set up. Lets say there was a fourth stooge who didn't really do anything. he doesn't add much, just takes away from the others. A number of times I wrote little fan fic type comics, and I stupidly added an extra character to something, and it totally threw off the balance of the others. Besides that, he didn't create her (did he? I'm prob'ly out of the loop).



Actually, if I remember correctly, Kevin Eastman created Venus.

[Ryan]

He helped to create Bebop and Rocksteady, so I doubt he hates them. Like with what the others were saying, they would not really fit in with the new series. Now, there could be some hidden references down the line.

With Venus, I think they had less to do with Next Mutation. Venus was added as to give girls a reason to watch a show that they probably would not normally watch. I on the other hand know a bunch of girls who loved the Turtles way before Mutation.

Ryan

[Drtooth]

Actually, if I remember correctly, Kevin Eastman created Venus.

That's probably what ended the partnership...

Sorry for my ignorance to that fact.

[Karpo_007]

No he does not hate Bepop and Rocksteady, and he doesn't hate the old cartoon. He just didn't like it when it went all kiddy after the first season. Next Mutation on the other and he seems to hate, and same goes to Venus. And I can perfectly understand why.

[GK Punk]

Actually, if I remember correctly, Kevin Eastman created Venus.

...Under pressure from Saban to add a female turtle. He was told to create the female or the show wouldn't have happened, as the story goes. or atleast as I've always heard it.

[cqb101]

Laird doesn't hate B+R....Venus on the otherhand.... :dead: And I can see why...She totally ruined the biggest part of the TMNT: they're suppose to be special, one of a kind....throwing a "sister" into it, takes all of the away.

[Karpo_007]

Actually, if I remember correctly, Kevin Eastman created Venus.

...Under pressure from Saban to add a female turtle. He was told to create the female or the show wouldn't have happened, as the story goes. or atleast as I've always heard it.

Thats true, like Power Rangers, the TMNT needed have a female member. That was a condition by FOX. Eastman was less objected to the idea, but I have never heard that he would created Venus though.

[Lisardo]

I can see why Laird hates Venus. So then, who created her exactly?

[GodzFire]

B & R could easily be put into the new series if they were less comical and more serious. I know my dad would certainly enjoy seeing them again :-)

[Jarrah White]

B & R could easily be put into the new series if they were less comical and more serious. I know my dad would certainly enjoy seeing them again :-)

On that note, I think all three characters can easily fit into the new series. Bebop and Rocksteady could be either space bounty hunters or agressive mutant freeks, employed by eith Shredder or the Tricerations.

Venus could be a from that samurai rabbit's world (Forgot his name, sorry) Or she could be a mutant turtle as well (Though not the TMNT's sister), her origin could be either she was created by either the Utroms or Shredder, or was flushed down the toilet where she ends up coming into contact with the ooze that mutated Splinter and the other turtles.

Once their origins have been finished, all that remains to be improved is their fighting skills. Bebop and Rocksteady could both be violent, tearing apart practically everything they see with their teeth and claws. As for Venus, I'll be quick, if you've ever played Nightshade you'll get an idea.

[cqb101]

B & R could easily be put into the new series if they were less comical and more serious. I know my dad would certainly enjoy seeing them again :-)

On that note, I think all three characters can easily fit into the new series. Bebop and Rocksteady could be either space bounty hunters or agressive mutant freeks, employed by eith Shredder or the Tricerations.

Venus could be a from that samurai rabbit's world (Forgot his name, sorry) Or she could be a mutant turtle as well (Though not the TMNT's sister), her origin could be either she was created by either the Utroms or Shredder, or was flushed down the toilet where she ends up coming into contact with the ooze that mutated Splinter and the other turtles.

Once their origins have been finished, all that remains to be improved is their fighting skills. Bebop and Rocksteady could both be violent, tearing apart practically everything they see with their teeth and claws. As for Venus, I'll be quick, if you've ever played Nightshade you'll get an idea.

She can't come from Usagi's world because it's all mammals.

[Jarrah White]

I thought it was a world of animals?

[cqb101]

I thought it was a world of animals?

Nope, only mammals.

[Jarrah White]

Oh, well then I guess we'll have to stick with the mutant turtle origin.

[Relay]

The real question is: why do you like Venus so much???

[ZariusTwo]

[quote=GodzFire]Venus could be a from that samurai rabbit's world (Forgot his name, sorry) Or she could be a mutant turtle as well (Though not the TMNT's sister), her origin could be either she was created by either the Utroms or Shredder, or was flushed down the toilet.

I say she's flushed down the toilet, is exposed to the mutagen, she goes topside, and gets decaptiated by The Shredder

[Jarrah White]

Better idea, Shredder tries to decapitate her, only to discover she ducked her head in her shell. :D

[Taloniss]

I like Zarius idea better.

[GK Punk]

Why is it, once every three days we have a thread where Jarrah tries to fit Venus in to the new TMNT? This is getting rediculous.

[Relay]

Why is it, once every three days we have a thread where Jarrah tries to fit Venus in to the new TMNT? This is getting rediculous.
Thank you.

[Taloniss]

Why is it, once every three days we have a thread where Jarrah tries to fit Venus in to the new TMNT? This is getting rediculous.

Amen.

[VaughnMichael]

but I have to agree please stop all the posts about venus...she was not that bad in her show the next mutation and thats exactly what that show was and why I've realized why so many people hate it...it was not the tmnts new show it was fox's let create a female turtle(btw thats who created her for everyone who wanted to know not Kevin).
I on the other hand have to dissagree with laird on one thing i think bebop and rocksteady could very well work in this new show..you don't have to give them the same names.....why can't hun get some of the foots genetics people or shredder capture some of the purple dragons and mutate 2ton and afro into a new bebop and rocksteady I could really see that happening for atleast one episode and the turtles having to join forces with hun and the purple dragons to stop shredder from starting notes from the underground part 500.
It may sound a bit silly but thats about the only way I could see that one happening at all...I do miss some of the mutants though I have to say.
-Vaughn Michael

[ZariusTwo]

but I have to agree please stop all the posts about venus...she was not that bad in her show the next mutation and thats exactly what that show was and why I've realized why so many people hate it...it was not the tmnts new show it was fox's let create a female turtle(btw thats who created her for everyone who wanted to know not Kevin).

People hated The Next Abortion because the PLOTS SUCKED, the story arcs sucked, the handling of Shredder sucked, and of course, Venus was buggered up and made to look like the STAR of the show, not the Turtles.

THOSE are the reasons people hate it, not simply because they "hate Venus"

[VaughnMichael]

but I have to agree please stop all the posts about venus...she was not that bad in her show the next mutation and thats exactly what that show was and why I've realized why so many people hate it...it was not the tmnts new show it was fox's let create a female turtle(btw thats who created her for everyone who wanted to know not Kevin).

People hated The Next Abortion because the PLOTS SUCKED, the story arcs sucked, the handling of Shredder sucked, and of course, Venus was buggered up and made to look like the STAR of the show, not the Turtles.

THOSE are the reasons people hate it, not simply because they "hate Venus"
I said people not me but your constant bashing is getting a bit annoying to people are allowed to like what ever they want but constantly posting it over and over no matter of liking or disliking is really getting off hand you seriously need to just ignore her or the next mutation dude or I fear you might have a heart attack over them some time lol but it's all good your a very opinionated person I see thatand that's quite OK but please for your own sake town it down man you know your gonna get warned cause you know where this is gonna head your gonna get told on or so and so like high school and your gonna get the detention lol.
But anyway the only things I really liked on that show are Simon Bonesteal and Dr. Quease who was very much based off of the character of Doc Feral Who I really enjoyed from the RPG books who was created by Kevin and peter.
It's OK to not like this show or not like but obsessing over it is bad for you in any case because one it's canceled there for you should either do one of 2 things forget it ever happened and ignore posts on the next mutation.
Or if you like write fan fics or such things to make you happy.
I would much love to see Doc Feral get animated on the new show though he's one hell of a character. You guys should check him out and read up on him.
-Vaughn Michael

[Shreddette]

I can't stand Venus, personally.
I am glad a female turtle didn't end up in the old cartoon, I woulda thought it sucked, and just woulda known her purpose, which was for other girls to watch it... that's a stupid reason. It did awsome as it was.
When I first saw a picture of Venus, I decided she sucked. Don't ruin my Turtles! Damnit.

[Demented Utrom]

Bebop and Rocksteady would be more nuts then old cartoon.For one I'm sick of the Turtles fighting humans.They need some Mutants to fight.The only Mutants they faced were the Triceatons they acted to much like the Rock Soldiers from Old Cartoon.You might aswell add Slash for an enemy Turtle.

[VaughnMichael]

Bebop and Rocksteady would be more nuts then old cartoon.For one I'm sick of the Turtles fighting humans.They need some Mutants to fight.The only Mutants they faced were the Triceatons they acted to much like the Rock Soldiers from Old Cartoon.You might aswell add Slash for an enemy Turtle.
I have to agree the humans are a bit boring....but the triceratons are aliens not mutants....I love slash in the archie comics but I doubt peter would allow it..now if kevin were running things i bet things would be allot differnt.
-Vaughn Michael

[Jarrah White]

mutate 2ton and afro into a new bebop and rocksteady

Whoa! You two! Yeah, those two characters remind me of Bebop & Rocksteady when they were humans.

[Turtlesmies]

Here's something to think about.

http://www.freehomepages.com/turtles-boy/venusreasons.html

[Jester]

what did happen to the eastmna/laird partnership?? Did kevin eastman help create venus....for saban and fox. and i echo that bebop and rocksteady could work in the new series if tweaked. I think they could come from usagi's world...their mammals. They could be space mercinaries/criminals who break out of a prison on usagi's world and make their way to earth...with usagi in pursute...the new bebop and rocksteady could eather fight the tmnt right off or be tricked by them into defending them from usagi...though that might not work since the tmnt meet him first...i don't know...but with some minor tweeking beebop and rocksteady could work.
Has anyone ever point-blankly asked Laird why he doesn't like those characters....as nicely as posible. He'd probably give u his answer...so we won't have to guess.

[Kali]

People hated The Next Abortion because the PLOTS SUCKED, the story arcs sucked, the handling of Shredder sucked, and of course, Venus was buggered up and made to look like the STAR of the show, not the Turtles.
Zarius, I swear, the next time you refer to The Next Mutation by anything other than its name, you WILL get a warning. Your comments are offensive. I don't care if it sucked, that type of language is not permitted here.

And Jarrah, HELLO?!? You belong to the Venus De Milo Fan Club! Can you not go there and talk about her? I'm sure everyone there would be more than happy to discuss your ideas and theories about putting her in the new show.

And if you continue to create multiple threads on this same topic, they will be locked on sight and you'll get put in for another warning.

[Drtooth]

You know... I had a thought...

Remeber in Secret origins parrt 3, they had a nod to Krang? Here's my thought.

How about 2 Members of the Purple Dragons are refferend to as Rocksteady and Bebop as a joke on the old series. They're pretty much fourth string, and used in one episode, but they call them Bebop and Rocksteady as a refference to the old show....

How about that?

[DrSpengler]

Honestly, I think Bebop and Rocksteady would work just fine if done as maybe a one-time thing. Shredder decides to mutate two of his Purple Dragon goons (One Ton and Afro) to see if he can "Fight Mutants With Mutants". Bebop and Rocksteady are incredibly strong, put up a good fight, but are ultimately way too stupid and get beat by the end of the episode. Shredder decides the idea's a waste of time and dumps Bebop and Rocksteady.

Would they work as regular characters?

Hell no. That's been done, no need for it again.

Would they work as cameo villains like Leatherhead? Yes. Easily.

In fact, I'd like to see more "classic" villains make guest appearances in one-shot episodes. Rat King and Slash, especially.

[VaughnMichael]

Honestly, I think Bebop and Rocksteady would work just fine if done as maybe a one-time thing. Shredder decides to mutate two of his Purple Dragon goons (One Ton and Afro) to see if he can "Fight Mutants With Mutants". Bebop and Rocksteady are incredibly strong, put up a good fight, but are ultimately way too stupid and get beat by the end of the episode. Shredder decides the idea's a waste of time and dumps Bebop and Rocksteady.

Would they work as regular characters?

Hell no. That's been done, no need for it again.

Would they work as cameo villains like Leatherhead? Yes. Easily.

In fact, I'd like to see more "classic" villains make guest appearances in one-shot episodes. Rat King and Slash, especially.
I just said that abouve..you should read things before you post man...I wish I hadn't I've been reading what you've said in other posts and this is how roumors get started.....
btw his name is two ton :wink:
but it's all good just letting you know.
-Vaughn Michael

[DrSpengler]

I just said that abouve..you should read things before you post man...I wish I hadn't I've been reading what you've said in other posts and this is how roumors get started.....
btw his name is two ton :wink:
but it's all good just letting you know.
-Vaughn Michael

Yeah, I know. Just flet like voicing my opinion...despite how redundant it was. :)

And Two-Ton? Aw jeez...there's a Simpsons quote which cna accurately display how I feel.

"You mean Bart's teacher's name is CRABAPPLE? I've been calling her CRANDAL! Awwwwwww, I've been making an idiot out of myself!" *runs away crying*

[Jester]

Never fear Jester's here with a note that proves he has balls of steel.
I wrote Peter Laird...and he wrote me back....here's what he had to say about the subject...

Bebop and Rocksteady are two characters that I had a hand in creating,
back when the old show was being developed, and for that old show and its
approach to the TMNT concept, they were perfect. I don't have terribly strong
negative feelings about them now because -- quite frankly -- I rarely think about
them. I suspect some people have gotten the impression that I actually HATE
them, because I don't want them in the new show, and I don't think that's
accurate. I just feel that, for one thing, they are so goofy and silly that they
really have no place in this new series. And as for suggestions that they could fit
into the new series by making them really rough and tough and mean and dark
and gritty -- well, then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady, would they?
They'd just be two characters who kinda look like them and have their names.
Venus DeMilo, on the other hand, for reasons both personal and
professional, I find very distasteful. It was a stupid, creatively bankrupt idea from
the word go, and I regret ever (reluctantly) agreeing to it. I'm not going to go
into all of the historical details, but suffice it to say that if the idea of
a female TMNT had first been proposed AFTER I bought Kevin out, I would have
shot it down immediately. Venus also suffered from "guilt by association"
from being part and parcel of a "take" on the TMNT -- "TMNT the Next Mutation" --
which I felt was basically wrong, and I had (by choice) very little to do
with that show. And Venus is the result of a lot of "by the numbers" thinking on
the part of people who THINK they are being creative, when they say things
like "Hey, four Turtles work really well -- FIVE Turtles will work even BETTER,
right?!"
But... do I "hate" Venus? "Hate" is such a strong term, unfortunately too
often and too casually used when what one REALLY means is "dislike". I
definitely dislike Venus. I never want to see her again in any way, shape or form in
the TMNT universe, and as long as I have say-so, she WILL never appear again.
But... "hate"? Venus is too pathetic, too weak, too basically NOTHING a
character for me to "hate".
I hope that answers your question.

--- Peter Laird

So here u go straight from the horses mouth...so to speak

[Serp]

I have the VHS of TMNT Next Mutation, The only VHS that was sold, neither Kevin Eastman or Peter Laird's names are on it, they must really hat Next Mutation.

[Kali]

I have the VHS of TMNT Next Mutation, The only VHS that was sold, neither Kevin Eastman or Peter Laird's names are on it, they must really hat Next Mutation.
I don't think either of them hate it. Like Peter said, hate is a very strong word. For projects like that, they use a collective title, like Mirage Studios. Does it say that anywhere?

[TigerClaw]

What if in the new series, They desided to add a certain female lizard or a certain vixen, Would they interfere with the TMNT mythos?

[Spitfire]

What if in the new series, They desided to add a certain female lizard or a certain vixen, Would they interfere with the TMNT mythos?
They had that in the old show her name was Mona Lisa
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/vhs/match.jpg
Whos knows they might even have her in the new show. No offense to any women here but its just a stupid idea stick with female humans like Lotus Blossom she was awesome

[Jarrah White]

Never fear Jester's here with a note that proves he has balls of steel.
I wrote Peter Laird...and he wrote me back....here's what he had to say about the subject...

Bebop and Rocksteady are two characters that I had a hand in creating,
back when the old show was being developed, and for that old show and its
approach to the TMNT concept, they were perfect. I don't have terribly strong
negative feelings about them now because -- quite frankly -- I rarely think about
them. I suspect some people have gotten the impression that I actually HATE
them, because I don't want them in the new show, and I don't think that's
accurate. I just feel that, for one thing, they are so goofy and silly that they
really have no place in this new series. And as for suggestions that they could fit
into the new series by making them really rough and tough and mean and dark
and gritty -- well, then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady, would they?
They'd just be two characters who kinda look like them and have their names.
Venus DeMilo, on the other hand, for reasons both personal and
professional, I find very distasteful. It was a stupid, creatively bankrupt idea from
the word go, and I regret ever (reluctantly) agreeing to it. I'm not going to go
into all of the historical details, but suffice it to say that if the idea of
a female TMNT had first been proposed AFTER I bought Kevin out, I would have
shot it down immediately. Venus also suffered from "guilt by association"
from being part and parcel of a "take" on the TMNT -- "TMNT the Next Mutation" --
which I felt was basically wrong, and I had (by choice) very little to do
with that show. And Venus is the result of a lot of "by the numbers" thinking on
the part of people who THINK they are being creative, when they say things
like "Hey, four Turtles work really well -- FIVE Turtles will work even BETTER,
right?!"
But... do I "hate" Venus? "Hate" is such a strong term, unfortunately too
often and too casually used when what one REALLY means is "dislike". I
definitely dislike Venus. I never want to see her again in any way, shape or form in
the TMNT universe, and as long as I have say-so, she WILL never appear again.
But... "hate"? Venus is too pathetic, too weak, too basically NOTHING a
character for me to "hate".
I hope that answers your question.

--- Peter Laird

So here u go straight from the horses mouth...so to speak

Hmm, so Laird doesn't hate Venus, he's just not fond of her.

[GK Punk]

He doesn't LIKE venus is the key phrase

[MW8979]

After reading that letter, I guess I can understand why he doesn't want to use Rocksteady and Bebop in his current work - he'll probably receive complaints about changing them from their original personalities and making them "too different". But I hope the same doesn't go for Krang, I mean, he's already dark and evil, there's still potential for him to fit into new projects, with a little bit of updating.

[Drtooth]

Krang was in that one joke in Secret Origins part 3....

I had a feeling that is why Bebop and Rocksteady weren't in the show... they just don't fit into the series at all. I could see (as he said) Bebop and Rocksteady like characters that looked like them, but were not them... just not the actual characters...

[Jester]

maybe there will be a homage to bebop and rocksteady like there was with Krang and channel 6....who knows

[Demented Utrom]

Well we got Krang 2004 already in the Shredder Utrom he acts like Krang.The Shredder Utrom complains about everything.For Bebop and Rocksteady they work in New Cartoon just make them like Hun.Also add Slash.

[the_minimizer]

I'd hate to say it, but the Mirage universe and the Archie universe aren't the same. And while I've never watched the Mirage cartoons, I think it would be unfair to Mirage fans to incorporate Archie characters into the new cartoon. I liked Rocksteady, Beebop and loved Krang. And I think it would rock to see them again, but the original story does deserve its due and time in the spot light.

maybe there will be a homage to bebop and rocksteady like there was with Krang and channel 6

Please tell me more about this.

[Mecha Cow]

I think it would be unfair to Mirage fans to incorporate Archie characters into the new cartoon. I liked Rocksteady, Beebop and loved Krang. And I think it would rock to see them again, but the original story does deserve its due and time in the spot light.


*Sigh*

Thank you. I completely agree. Most people don't look at it that way.

There were never any Mirage cartoons, though.

As for the Krang and Channel Six jokes, those were in Secret Origins part 3.

April was wearing a yellow jumpsuit so she could pose as a reporter (Casey was her 'camera man') in an attempt to gain access to the TCRI building.

As the Utroms made their way to the Transmat, one of them complained how he 'hated walking on his tentacles'. The Utrom next to him replied: "Oh, shut up, Krang!"

[Bourgeois Buffoon]

That reminds me? Who woulda loved April to introduce her cameraman as Vernon Fenwick, with complaints by our boy Casey about the lame name? ;)

[cqb101]

That reminds me? Who woulda loved April to introduce her cameraman as Vernon Fenwick, with complaints by our boy Casey about the lame name? ;)

That woulda been pretty funny. :lol:

For the record, the only non-mirage character I'd like to see in this show would be Ninjara. She wasn't a mutant, and they could even change her origin and say she came from Usagi's world. That would kick ass.

[Kali]

For the record, the only non-mirage character I'd like to see in this show would be Ninjara. She wasn't a mutant, and they could even change her origin and say she came from Usagi's world. That would kick ass.
Would be cool, but she isn't owned by Mirage. Or Archie as I recall. It's an individual. They could always try and get the rights for a brief appearance.

[Buslady]

Why is it, once every three days we have a thread where Jarrah tries to fit Venus in to the new TMNT? This is getting rediculous.

Bebop can bebop Venus.... :wink: :lol:

[jeff the cheff]

And as for suggestions that they could fit
into the new series by making them really rough and tough and mean and dark
and gritty -- well, then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady, would they?
They'd just be two characters who kinda look like them and have their names

That is always how I have felt. Why would you want bebop and rocksteady if they weren't...bebop and rocksteady?

[Barkworm]

That comment of Laird is damn funny, it sounds like Venus is not even worth hating her! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[GK Punk]

That comment of Laird is damn funny, it sounds like Venus is not even worth hating her! :lol: :lol: :lol:

lol I know it sounds like it's not even worth his time

[Coola Yagami]

And as for suggestions that they could fit
into the new series by making them really rough and tough and mean and dark
and gritty -- well, then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady, would they?
They'd just be two characters who kinda look like them and have their names

That is always how I have felt. Why would you want bebop and rocksteady if they weren't...bebop and rocksteady?

Because that's how they were meant to be shown before the show got too kiddyish and stupid? Remember the first 5 eps?

[DrSpengler]

And as for suggestions that they could fit
into the new series by making them really rough and tough and mean and dark
and gritty -- well, then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady, would they?
They'd just be two characters who kinda look like them and have their names

That is always how I have felt. Why would you want bebop and rocksteady if they weren't...bebop and rocksteady?

Because that's how they were meant to be shown before the show got too kiddyish and stupid? Remember the first 5 eps?

They were still pretty stupid in the miniseries. As I recal on their very first appearance they ran into eachother and knocked themselves unconscious. Then they were stupid enough to get trapped in a cage, buried in cement and so forth.

They were always bumbling idiots, even before subsequent seasons made them mildly retarded.

[cqb101]

And as for suggestions that they could fit
into the new series by making them really rough and tough and mean and dark
and gritty -- well, then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady, would they?
They'd just be two characters who kinda look like them and have their names

That is always how I have felt. Why would you want bebop and rocksteady if they weren't...bebop and rocksteady?

Because that's how they were meant to be shown before the show got too kiddyish and stupid? Remember the first 5 eps?

It doesn't matter. People liked B+R, because of their stupidity. That's who they were. If they're not the stupid B+R, then they're not B+R.

[raphael90]

Gotta love Bebop and Rocksteady. The first episode was so cool, I wish the others could have stayed like that. Back then, Bebop and Rocksteady were of course still dumb but they had a meaner streak to them, i.e. the time they attacked the Turtles and Splinter in "Shredder is Splintered". It's such a shame all the eps after the first five eps, it went downhill, kinda dragging Bebop and Rocksteady to idiot goons who can't do anything right. I still enjoy them though.

[FALLEN ELDOR]

They can be half ton thugs with low intelligence and not be bumbling.
"These are the two most ruthless and viscous animals you could find?"
Shredder asked Tatsu in the second film, I can see him asking Hun the same question in reference to the Purple Dragons... :evilgrin:
Just because they are stupid doesn't make them formidable foes.
The only way the turtles could defeat them is by out smarting them.
The key is making them stupid street thugs but not bumbling retards like Pinky from Pinky and the Brain. Your not reinventing the wheel, Bebop and Rocksteady would still be Bebop and Rocksteady, they would just be the wheel with snow tires and a new hub cap! But some stubborn folks just refuse to admit it!


As for Venus, when you strip it down to the base concept she is a mysterious Female turtle who is a mystic and foreign to American culture...Not a bad concept, unfortunately people let a sub-par origin and a single season black list her. Make her a Truly mysteries origin, so much so that even she doesn't know. Use her sparingly, and only when needed, make her a shadow figure. Sometimes when carving a wheel out of stone you get some imperfections because of the quality of the stone. The trick is to learn your mistakes on the first stone, find a better stone, and shape a better wheel.

I'd hate to say it, but the Mirage universe and the Archie universe aren't the same. And while I've never watched the Mirage cartoons, I think it would be unfair to Mirage fans to incorporate Archie characters into the new cartoon. I liked Rocksteady, Beebop and loved Krang. And I think it would rock to see them again, but the original story does deserve its due and time in the spot light.

maybe there will be a homage to bebop and rocksteady like there was with Krang and channel 6

Please tell me more about this.

This ain't the original comic! its a cartoon based on and influenced by the original comic, and to say it is only based on the comics is wrong! There are influences from the cartoon with Shredder being a criminal Utrom, a concept obviously based on Krnag (who was based on the Utroms) Not to mention personalities of the turtles, more in line with the original movie then the comics...And the original movie was a marriage between the comics and the cartoon. Then of course we have the plethora of new stuff originating from the series, things like Splinters ass kicking ability, and characters like Hun...To not take from other concepts that originated from other canons (film, cartoon or other) is just hypocritical...

[Coola Yagami]

And as for suggestions that they could fit
into the new series by making them really rough and tough and mean and dark
and gritty -- well, then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady, would they?
They'd just be two characters who kinda look like them and have their names

That is always how I have felt. Why would you want bebop and rocksteady if they weren't...bebop and rocksteady?

Because that's how they were meant to be shown before the show got too kiddyish and stupid? Remember the first 5 eps?

They were still pretty stupid in the miniseries. As I recal on their very first appearance they ran into eachother and knocked themselves unconscious. Then they were stupid enough to get trapped in a cage, buried in cement and so forth.

They were always bumbling idiots, even before subsequent seasons made them mildly retarded.


In the neautrinos ep they had rocksteady choke-throw Leonardo so hard he lost his swords when he hit the ground. In the shredder is splinter ep bebop was choking splinter until he was hit by a dumpster. In the later seasons they can't even take 2 steps forward to attack the tmnt without slipping on a banana peel or something.

[DrSpengler]

[quote="DrSpenglerThey were still pretty stupid in the miniseries. As I recal on their very first appearance they ran into eachother and knocked themselves unconscious. Then they were stupid enough to get trapped in a cage, buried in cement and so forth.

They were always bumbling idiots, even before subsequent seasons made them mildly retarded.


In the neautrinos ep they had rocksteady choke-throw Leonardo so hard he lost his swords when he hit the ground. In the shredder is splinter ep bebop was choking splinter until he was hit by a dumpster. In the later seasons they can't even take 2 steps forward to attack the tmnt without slipping on a banana peel or something.[/quote]

True. No doubt about it, they were smarter in the miniseries and by far more violent ("We don't like rats in our fair city, so hows about I ring your stinken neck!?"). They were still idiots, though.

Despite what Laird had to say, I still think they could work as a cameo villain in an episode of the new series, if only for a comedy episode. But given Laird's opinnion on the matter, and his stubborness, hoping that they show up is out of the question.