What is wrong with the Sonic series?
 

I'm writing an editorial on a more personal topic. namely, Sonic the Hedgehog. I want to try to list what problems are plaguing the series and what can be done to fix it since Sonic Team is trying to start over with this new game. I've got many ideas, but I'm keeping quiet. What do you think is wrong with the series? List anything. I'm not trying to slam the series (I'd kill myself first), but more like point out the flaws and draw attention to them so Sonic Team will take note while the new "Sonic the Hedgehog" (<<actual title of the game) that restarts the series is in development. This is a freash chance to start over, so it seems a good time to write this article. Sonic has always been on the same level as Mario in my mind, regardless of Sega's recent crap, and it just would help my piece of mind by writing this.

I dont think anything is wrong with the sonic himself, but. i do think he should get rid of some of the sidekicks.

Well, I don't play the games anymore myself, but from what I've noticed they've been trying way too hard to be 'cool'. The recent Shadow game is the most obvious example, but a cartoon hedgehog fighting ULTIMATE CHAOS in a ruined city just kind of strikes me as lame.

I'm sure I say this about almost everything, but that's what I've noticed.

I also say they should bring the cast back down to just Sonic, Tails and Knuckles...And change Eggman back to Robotnik, but that's just me being a b*tch.

As for gameplay, I was never fond of blind jumps and levels that are over within seconds and only require the player to hold down the D-Pad, but maybe that's part of the appeal. I dunno.

Iv'e really only ever liked the 2D sonics. Ever since the series switched to 3D the series has just gone down hill. I don't think Sonic was ever made to be in that type of an enviroment.

Note Sonic Rush, and the praise that it has gotten. Amazing how much a series can be good again when it goes back to its roots.

I think Sonic has just been used too much. Marios loved because we passionatly await his next game. Theres not a new one..that much time didnt go into making..coming out every other month...such as the sonic games.

Exactly my sentiments (cept for the being a b*tch part). The gameplay part is the reason I don't play the 3D games, you just hold down the D-pad and race through the level blindly jumping. I know that's basically what the 2D game was too (it feels more like skill in the 2D games than 'jumping blindly' though), but when you're playing that it just feels like a good game, whereas in the 3D ones it's just awful. I wouldn't touch the 3D games with a 20 foot barge pole, I took a chance on Sonic Adventure DX and now I can't get rid of it and played Sonic Heros once or twice before trading it in (it came free with my sister's PS2 so I took it for mine).

Does anyone else feel the same way as me, that they can't quite put their finger on why the 3D ones are so bad when the 2D ones are so good, even though both of them contain the reason that I can't stand the 3D ones (speeding through the levels blindly jumping)?

Besides the fact I rarely play 3-D games out side of Target's demo area (because, among other thigs, I'm poor), the only Sonic related media I have exposure to is the anime on Fox. Personally, I like Eggman over Robotnik. I dunno.... whenever I think of the Name Robotnik, I think of that goofy fat version with the hot Dog for a nose from that lame "Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog" cartoon

http://www.vegalleries.com/misccels/38sonic04.jpg

Mainly because it's so awful, it cracks me up.

Only thing I would love to see change in? A new action figure license. Bought an Eggman, and I don't even think it was worth 3 bucks, vs. the 6 I paid for it.

1) Fix the damned camera. I don't care what you have to do to do this, but it NEEDS done Sonic Team. Shadow was a good start, yes, but there's always room to get better.

2) Ditch the guns. NO GUNS. You freakin hear me? So help if you Sonic runs around with an 9mm. This isn't Grand Theft Chaos Emeralds here.

3) Get rid of all the stupid characters. Tails and Knuckles can stay, but turn Shadow back into Metal Sonic. If you need a badass, I would think Knuckles could pass pretty well. The dude has freaking SPIKES on his HANDS.

4) Speed. SPEED Sonic Team. Speed. Look at F-Zero GX... take notes... and use them. I wanna FEEL like I'm moving faster then I should be, not have to think I am.

5) Linear 3-D levels. I want to run, and I want to know exactaly where I need to run to. I want some loops to run through, I want coins to grab, and I want baddies to jump on. I want spin launchers, moving platforms, and death falls. I don't want to search for emerald shards. I don't want to destroy all the baddies. I just want to run really fast, and jump. Toss a bit of grinding in there, and you're good. I shoulden't have to spend more then five minutes in a stage.

Oh, and make each level a stage. I want around nine-ten worlds, with 3 stages and a boss battle.

6) Make the damn game hard. Sure, the first few levels should be easier... but slowly make them harder. And I want at least nine very diffrent worlds. I look back to Sonic two, going from running around in hills, to a chemical plant, then some woods.

7) Controlls. I want jump, and spin dash. That's it. No punches (unless Knuckle is in the game, then that'd be expected), no kicks, no stupid mecha for Tails to hide in. Just jump and spin dash. Two buttons, Sonic Team. Simple, but it works.

8) Eggman sucks. I want Robotnik back. I also want his flying sphere back, and I want to kick his ass at the end of each world. No more stupid robot battles, please.

9) Graphic wise... stop trying to make the cartoon characters 'hard core'. It doesn't work. Just give me smooth character models, semi-detailed worlds, and for the love of all that's holy, a steady 60FPS. If you can get it to run higher then 60 without the game taking a hit, then do it. The smoother it runs, the more ilusion of speed you'll get. It all comes down to making the game look insanely fast.

I'm sure I'll think up some more stuff...

Now that I think of it, take the grinding rails out altogether, they're extremely boring and all you do is watch the screen, bar the odd jump to get to another rail or to get a ring.

I concur with most of what is being said here. However, I was fond of Sonic Adventure. I just want to play as Sonic, not Amy, the cat thing, a robot, and whatever other flavor of the month they happen to throw in a game. Let's take it back to Sonic 3 & Sonic and Knuckles...or as I like to call it: "Happy Days."

I LOVE Sonic the Hedgehog! Well I loved it when it was just Sonic Tails and Robotnik (Eggman) The new show just seems to be going in a circle and the "Opps I lost the Emerald"

THe SEga older games rocked. I think the story should of went like the games.Find the Emeralds , become Super,Hyper Sonic and then win.But you have all these sidekicksand it's just ughh... the BIG problem with Japan is making kids the leaders,in control of the characters. Like for an example: TRansformers:Car Robots, Armada (Please kill those kids),Energon,Cybertron..... those shows had the kids in it and they where ANNNOYING and messed up the story.The shows wheren't that much fun anymore. THe deal with Sonic is just too many characters and astory line going in a big circle...

I'm going back to my old school gamesand maybe my Shadow game

The thing that made the 2D games a real joy was the level design. Just utterly fantastic in it's intricacies.

You could replay the same level 4 or 5 times and STILL find new paths to tread. There were hidden little secrets all over the place, paths would intersect, you had options everywhere you went, a variety of forcefields and power-ups, lots of badniks to jump on...and so much more.

Yet nothing I listed above could NOT be turned 3D. You can still have nonlinear gameplay in 3D, you can still have hidden power-ups and Chaos Emerald special stages, you can still have ALL of that in a 3D environment.


ALSO, I don't want to treasure hunt with Knuckles. I don't want to pilot a mech with Tails. I want to PLAY SONIC'S LEVELS with those characters, using their special abilities to reach certain areas and paths other characters could not. Like in the 2D games.

Again, no reason they couldn't do that in 3D. Mandatory treasure-hunting in SA2 was a crime. The game's supposed to be fast. FAST!


I have no problems with the extended cast of characters, just don't cram them down our throats. I'm sorry, but I just don't see what's so great about Shadow. Angsty evil twin? Yeah, like that's never been done before. Metal Sonic was cooler, anyway.

They can stay, just don't let them hog the spotlight anymore.


And yeah, I'm glad Sonic Team acknowledged "Robotnik" as Dr. Eggman's real name in SA2. That was a nice nod to American fandom that they didn't HAVE to do but did it anyway.

Just please, for the American voice overs at the very least, PLEASE call him Robotnik again. Eggman is just so...so...LAME.


So that's it, really. My main issues are level design and mis-use of characters.

I just got SICK of the games. I was the #1 Video game sonic Master in my area for 3 years but when it became 3 D it was making me sick and with my medical conidtion it just was harder to play the games.

What I liked best about Sonic was the speedand using your head quick when you went through hidden paths- the hardest was pahs where you had spikes as well as something to crush you....but nothing makes a sonic game great then the loops and those rings!

THe best Sonic trick I learned was clear thr ENTIRE level and end at exactly 9:59 you got 100,000 points plus a time bonus of 100,000 points! That ROCKED. Ah Sonic and KNuckles! Remember,"ROCK THE ROCK?" at Target wher you could play Sonic snd Knuckles? I won my division in Houston,TX and was suppose to go to the finals to compete but my MOM messed that up for me by saying,"Oh I have to help at this Church...":roll: I don't blame God but my mom costed me 50,000 dollors

3 words:

Super Sonic Independence.

We should be able to play as Super Sonic in any level again. After you get all the Chaos Emeralds in bonus levels, of course.

Things wrong with the Sonic license today.

1) Stupid characters. Anyone besides Sonic, Tails and Knuckles should not be in the game. I'll allow Metal Sonic, but he's not really a "character".

2) Speed. The majority of the 3D sonic games are slow and boring. There's nothing like moving so fast the screen can't scroll fast enough to actually see your character.

3) Drop the stupid gimmicks. I.E. Tails in the stupid mecha, Knuckles burrowing into walls, guns, etc etc.

4) Sh*tty techno music. Let's hear some classic tunes re-done for the new games.

Exactly.

Which means they first need to bring back the Chaos Emerald stages. As much as I appreciated the story in the SA games, and how the Chaos Emeralds were an important part of that story, I'd still much rather earn them for myself so I can be Super Sonic whenever I want.

The Super Sonic independance-thing hangs up there with the Knuckles and Tails independance-thing. I want to play them in the same level as Sonic, just making use of their special abilities. I don't want them to be relagated only to "special levels".

I think thisshould be perment in the game. THe down side of Super Sonic or Knuckles was the fact your rings run out. But I learned something Super Sonic can be a nonsense too if your in the wrong area.

BTW going back to Sonic THe Hedgehog 1, that game has 6 emeralds when was the 7th Emerald added and what reason ? And Sonic 2 the level the "Hidden Palace" was removed but some claim they found it. I NEVER saw Hidden Palace till S &K. That level was beauitful!

Hidden Palace is a lost level in Sonic 2, unaccessable by normal means. PM me and I'll tell you how to "get to it".


By the way, I agree with most of what is said, and I know that they are going to be stripping away all playable characters except Sonic for the new game. One point. They're rethinking the "run forward down one path" concept. They claim it is going back to open ended, multi path levels. Also, Sonic's model looks right for the first time in 6 years. That, and I hear they talked to Jpop band "Dreams Come True about the music (their drummer, Masato Nakamura, wrote the music to Sonic 1 & 2). Nothing confirmed, but just talking to them is enough to make me cream my pants.

Plus, this is the first Sonic game Naka will direct since the original SA in '99. Guess he's finally done fu*king around with his Phantasy Star crap. That's a big point right there. Those *******s in San Fransisco handled SA2, Sonic Heroes, and Shadow. They've apprently been banned from the franchise, as it's all their games that have dregged down the series. Keep it in Japan Sega. They call those lazy bastards "Sonic Team" for a reason. They also keep talking about Sonic 2 & Sonic & Knuckles when discussing design. Big damn words Sonic team. Live up to them.


Still, this video give me hope big time.....

http://www.sonic-cult.org/upcoming/s...ic-Nextgen.avi

All in game engine footage. May make your Media Player choke.

What's wrong with Sonic? Easy. Same thing that's wrong with Mario.

Too many games.

I agree with most of what was posted so far, but if those rumors turn out to be true, this new game looks promising. It would be even better if a new Sonic console game were made in 2D (it could still use 3D characters as long as they are set in a 2D environment), but I highly doubt that will happen...

Well, that's what Sonic Rush did, and it did a fantastic job of it too.

If you have the Sonic 2 BETA rom (I'd offer it, but it's against forum rules) just use the Sonic 1 level select (hold A, up, down, left, right then start) on the main menu and you can pick the Hidden Palace in there (along with other levels that aren't finished but nothing exists in them).

As to the seventh emerald, I think in-game logic was just to explain why Sonic couldn't change to Super Sonic in the first game but he could in the second, he needed the 7th emerald. In the Fleetway Comics it was the Master Emerald, hidden away on the Floating Island and guarded by Knuckles, so obviously Sonic wouldn't have known about it in Sonic 1 (or Sonic 2 for that matter, but it's not like the stories were exactly coherent back in the Megadrive era). As for the Archie Comics, I don't know, never read them.

So I think your best bet for the reason is my first answer, in-game logic;)

At first like most people here the main thing that i don't like about the recent sonic games is what i call the holding-hands-crap (eg soni heroes) which i suppose i should say with caution since Mario seems to have gotten away with it in his time. Perhaps i'm just nostalgic when remembering the sonic the hedgehog. Mind you on a minor note Sonic's isn't so much the fastest thing alive if he has to slow down for his buddies to catch up. Why don't they stay home? XP

But seriously i always thought Shadow was just a pale recolour and don't think Sega should have milked him any further after SA 2. I think if anything they should try giving the blue pin-cushion some completely new villians to breath fresh air into the series. Marios had about a dozen from Bowser to Wario, Donkey kong to Dennis Hopper, whilst Sonic has only had about 5. About 20 games on and Dr Eggman still hasn't done nothing. =P

Btw i could swear Dr Eggman was always the name for the guy but was switched to Robotnik in the early days in Sonic's life at the west, only to be switched back to Eggman for Sonic adventure onwards. I Kinda like Robotnik myself, but i guess now i find it easier to distuinguish between game Eggman and AoStH\SaTaM Robotnik. (didn't think those shows were too bad mind. just needed getting used to)

And like most people i don't like the Sonic X dub much. It's no good!

Yeah, Eggman was his original name in Japan. They changed it to Eggman, but had him refer to himself as Robitnik in both the American and Japanese scripts. They treat Eggman as a nickname now, but use it in almost all situations.

I prefer the name 'Robotnik.' It's just more in sync with the character. Makes him more menacing.

I used to own sonic mega collection for gamecube and I can those games on the collection were better than the new ones. i like sonic adventure 1+2 and heros but sonic 1-3 are my favroite.. Why..

1-collecting as many rings.. lots of time I like to collect as much rings as I can

2-the classic music! oh the music is really good I actually have a cd filled with awesome sonic music from the genesis

3-no story required. sonic 1-3 had a classic style which is find the emeralds, defeat the bad doctor and save the day. good enough.

4-the secrets.. finding those paths, multiple playthrough to find paths you didn't find before

5-the emeralds special stages
I remember how hard it was to get those emeralds in sonic 1 and 2.. boy the 2nd one was tough by the tiem I was going for the final 3..

I can understand why people feel the way they do about The Sonic series now. Though I really do like Sonic Adventure, I could have done without Big The Cat, Amy's and Knuckles parts. I did like E-102's parts but it really wasn't needed. Sonic Adventure 2 wasn't horrible at all, but it seemed to be missing something. I found Sonic Adventure team a bit boring from what little I've played.

Semi-on topic, but does the name "Robotnik" have a special meaning? Is it a refference to something or someone?

Also, why has Robotnik changed to "Eggman", but they can't change Bowser to Koopa? Always hated that name for him.

Heh, I like Koopa more then Bowser, actually... just because of how the announcer says it in SSBM. But that's way off topic there.

As has been said recently... ring collection and emerald collection stages are badly needed again.

And Robotnik is just a clever way of using Robot in his name. Perhaps it's sorta like... Robot nickname? Hah, dunno.

I remember in the first game manual, it was 'Kintobor.' I forget what happened after that...:P

Well in the the fleetway comic (STC) they played around with that idea. When he was a good guy he was Kintobor, then an experiment went wrong and he became the evil robotnik.

In Japan his name was "Eggman" from day 1. In America they thought the name was too silly so they changed it to Dr. Ivo Robotnik.

When the Adventure games came around they brought CGI cutscenes with them. Because of that, "Robotnik" wouldn't fit the lipsunc (since they were saying "Eggman"). So for the SA1 manual they said that "Eggman" was just a nickname the characters used.

When SA2 came around, the creators decided to give America a break and created the character of Dr. Gerald Robotnik, thus revealing that Eggman's real name is Ivo Robotnik (working the name Robotnik into Japanese continuity).

They still haven't worked out the "Mobius" thing, though. In Japan the games take place on Earth while the American games said it was the alien planet Mobius. The Archie comic revealed that Mobius is actually Earth in the distant future. Maybe they'll play that angle. I dunno.


And in the original American manual for Super Mario Bros. they listed the character as "Bowser, King of the Koopas". For some reason, the Super Mario cartoons chose to call him "King Koopa" instead of Bowser.

So he has been called Koopa in the American Mario media quite a few times. We just usually put "King" before it.

What?! Oh man I need to buy these new things!

Now here is my question what was everyone's all time fav based on the orignal 5? Sonic 1,2,3, Sonic Spinball,Sonic and Knuckles. Personally I LOVED Spinball but that took some patience and damn you HAD to be quick

Is it that hard to just call him King Bowser Koopa?:ohwell:

From what I knew, it's King Morton Boswer Koopa. Meh, dosen't matter I guess.

You can't buy the beta version legally, only ROMs or messed pirate copies have it.

My favorite's Sonic3&Knuckles, huge game, great music, great animation, great level design... just brilliant all-around!

I preferred Sonic & Knuckles as it was kinda the "Grand finale" to the story arc they'd started in Sonic 2 (and maybe a little in Sonic 1, though that was ore ofa template).

Sonic & Knuckles was kinda the zenith of everything they'd been working on since the original, and more specifically, everything I think made the Genesis games great.

Humongous level designs, lots of secrets, and the choice to play through each level with the different characters and utlize their various skills to find new paths and move along a different story.


Also, just a thought, I kinda like Knuckles better when he was a badguy (Sonic 3, Sonic Triple Trouble, and Sonic & Knuckles). Whenever he'd randomly show up to get in your way, accompanied by his own catchy theme song, I thought he was just a cool villain. Almost a shame he's a good guy now.

I really didn't like the find the Emeralds parts that Knuckles and Rouge had to do, and I can agree a bit with the above poster. I like it when knuckles was sort of on is own team and a bit of a loner, When he team'd with sonic because he had to, not because they were really friends.

What did you guys think of Sonic 3D blast? I never really played it.


BTW I prefer the name Robotnik to Eggman. Robotnik sounds menacing, Eggman sounds like an insult.

Personally, I thought that Sonic 3D Blast was limited. I mean, it was okay and a nice idea, but it just didn't feel right. Also, getting all of the Chaos Emeralds didn't turn you into Super Sonic. What's up with that?! :x

However, the music was pretty cool. Especially Volcano Valley Zone.:D

Three things Wrong with Sonic The Hedgehog Now:

1. He Talks With a voice that makes you want to go on Robotniks side
2. To Many Characters!
3. He's too fast for a 3D game, you have no control

lucky dip

4. The Special Stages just make you want to slit your wrists

Heh, I wish.

I've gotten so used to the speed frames, I'm actually PRAYING that the new game coming out will burn my retinas.

I have a need for speed that only F-Zero GX come closest to clinching.

What I'm saying is, Sonic in 3D is not as fast as I thought it would be, in my opinion. Maybe it's because I played the games so much that I've gotten used to it. :ohwell:

But you're right about the control part. Especially when friggin' glitches makes you fall through loops and plummet to your cheap death.:roll: