The Gender Gap
 

Who else here is as put off by the gender gap as I am?
There's been alot of improvements in the new centery thus far, but that gap is still a bloody canyon. Me and a few friends of mine have discussed about how society asigns gender roles to everyone as early as birth with the pink blankets for girls and the blue blankets for boys. Wtf is this? Then, as kids, girls and boys are inforced to look, feel, and act a certain way, and be interested in certain toys and cartoons all based on gender. This is some stupid nonsense.

As kids grow up, they learn what it is to be a man, and what it is to be a woman. A man is a tough, strong, macho machine that never cries; and a woman is a maternal, danty, prissy, pansy-pickin' princess. This is such utter ********. Further more, males and females are given strict wardrobes. If a guy wears a dress, people call him a *** and what not. I don't see what the problem is. Hell, 5000 years ago everyone was wearing a damn dress. And here's what pisses me off... A woman wears masculine clothing and all of a sudden people call her a dyke. Nice. Clothes don't make the person. They're ment to cover up ourselves and also allows us to be creative and define our character.

Moving right along... We have gender roles. Why the **** do we still have gender roles? Honestly. We still have the ever so popular damsel in distress who gets saved by the knight in shining armour. Give me a ****ing break. She's too much of a pussy to do anything herself? Please...
Then we have these insulting beer commercials and rap music videos that depict women as mere sex objects and "goods" ready to be used. And lets not forget all the wonderful derogatory terms used by gangstas and "thugs" to refere to females. Bitches, hoes, and ****s among the degrading terms.
And while we're on offensive descriptions, it pisses the bloody hell out of me that when a woman disagrees, opposes, and speaks out against something, men get all flustered and feel the need to attack the woman verbaly... Usually calling her a bitch. See, this is a problem. Men are taught to believe that women are supposed to simply nod their heads and smile to every ****ing thing. And if she shows some sign of "rebelionism" and non-conformance to what a man has to say, all of a sudden there's a ****ing problem with her.

Let's just stop with the women part right there because I have enough to keep this going all night. Let's move onto the men.
Why oh why oh why does this stupid-ass infixation that men should not cry and should not show any weakness of any kind still exists? And the whole thing about men being intouch with their feelings is a big no-no for some ****ed up reason. It's like men are not allowed to be human. Well then, what does that make them? Bloody machines? Ridiculous.

It's a big, big problem. males are encouraged to be masculine, and females are encouraged to be feminine. And if either one shows signs of the opposite, they get looked down upon by many and even humiliated. This should not happen.
If men and women could just let themselves and others be both masculine and feminine, we'd all be able to understand each other and get along so much better.

Yin Yang, people.
Let's eliminate the gender gap.

Hell to me it's all level. I like girls who are themselves. The ones that aren't well stick out like sore thumbs. LOOK I HAVE FAKE EVERYTHING! And alot of the times their reallllly stupid. They cant even function in class for God's sake. And their boyfriends are idiots too. Morons with no personality and the girls are the same.

I never made gender gaps myself but I guess I'm just different. Girl wants to act like a boy, fine, wants to act more girly, fine, hell as long as she's being herself then whatever.

Oh and yeah alot of people think I look gay because I have long hair. And alot of gangster people think I'm scary cause I wear all black.

Well, that was a rather angry post. I wasn't expecting anything like that, but anyway. Ryona and I have been talking about this for a while now, and decided to make a thread about it. Here are the results.

Overall, I'm dissatisfied with the way the genders depict themselves these days, especially men, which I will talk about in a bit. We have the men, who feel the need to be the strong. Then we have the women, who feel the need to stay back and support the man. This has more or less changed somewhat over the years, but it's still a lingering practice put into everyday use. Women now have full-time jobs and don't stay home to be the housewife. Sometimes the women even make more than the men. The times have changed, but there's still the typical housewife/working male family system. The male also feels to have control over the house. The wife just sits back and takes care of the children, and tends to the man's needs. I don't really like it that way. It should be a team effort to fully develop their family.

Men these days make me sick. They are loud, full of themselves, and treat women awfully. They have this idea in their mind that they're invincible, and they can do anything. When they realize they're wrong, they deny it to the very end. It's kind of embarassing being a man that is associated with them. There's another thing that kind of bothers me about the male gender: the idea that they can't be sensitive about anything. The general rule is men never cry. They have to be strong in front of everyone. I don't like this idea. Everyone is sensitive. They just try and hold it back, and by holding it in, you only hurt yourself more. It's better to let it out and you'll feel so much better. I know I do. I've cried many times over a lot of things. It's no big deal.

Now on to women. As women grow up, they are taught to be innocent little girls who find things like sexual desire to be taboo, and think that porn and the like is disgusting. Inside, they want it, but their mind says to push it away. Within everyone's human mind, they have the "Id" part of the mind, which is the lust for sex and total destruction. Girls love to block this out and do the best they can to stay innocent. This isn't the best course of action. Instead of holding it in, embrace your lust. I'm not saying to go out and screw every guy you see, but accept the fact that you want "to get some" and respect it.

What is the solution? Find a balance. Like Ryona said, the Yin and the Yang. Embrace the sensitivity within you, men. Accept and respect the lust within you, women. If we can do this, we can have a better understanding of each other, and further close the gap between genders.

I agree with Spitfire. I don’t want the stereotypical "girl' because usually she's only an inch deep. I want someone who's intellectually stimulating. I see most people who play into these roles as being that way, both genders. They only know how to play at being a boy or girl and not themselves. I'll admit I do ascribe to "gender roles," though I do cry, as does my father, and my mom is far from a fragile and docile flower, as is my sister. I feel that some traits are passed on from generations past...nurturing and such for woman. Grunting and scratching in odd places for men.

It is however true, that people don't all fit these molds....some men can be just a caring and nurturing as a woman, and woman can toss back a few brewskies and a pig skin. But you never get over the role of gender in how people think, and the roles they play.

Some people actually take pride in living up to the "traditional" role. Some woman take pride in rearing children and men take pride in being the one who "brings home the bacon." These roles are by no means permanent. Both my parents work. My mom has had a job since I started school almost. We all pitch in with the chores. Heck, dad even does the laundry. The problem comes when these roles are "enforsed" so rigidly, that people act according to it and are no longer themselves.

The problem I have with the gender gap is the old main stay double standards. A man sleeps around he’s a stud; a woman does the same she’s a whore. When it comes to sexual harassment, men are always made to be the aggressors, which isn’t always true. The biggest thing that has to die is the double standards. The gender roles and pink for girls and blue for boys stuff isn’t the real problem, it’s when we set up standards that contribute to inequality.

That is all so true.
A number of people here (mainly from the chat room) know that I can be a pretty naughty girl. And when I'm horny, I let them know it. I don't give a ****. I tease and play with inuendos alot and I think it's all fun.

Women are just as lustful as men. The only difference is, like you pointed out, Ai, women get programmed to believe that it's very wrong for them to express such sexual feelings. And as for men, they have no problem expressing their sexual feelings (which seems to be the only type of feelings they freely express), but the problem with many of them is that they tend to lack a sense of control and respect.

I agree with all of you that gender gap is large. If I was a student 50 years ago, I would be looked down upon because I am a science major. Back then, it was believe that science was a masculine subject and humanities and English was femimine. Not many women studied science 50 years ago. Also, it was uncommon for a girl to be teaching a subject at the secondary level. Nowadays, women are not looked down upon as much as they used to be if they want to study mathematics or science.

Roles between genders are not always static....they do change every once in awhile. Sometimes the mother is the one that brings home the beacon while the father stays at home, which can be considered as acceptable in today's society. Sometime both parents work on a daily basis and balance work and family life. All 4 of my parents work on a daily basis and they are doing just fine.

I've only just realized how little the gender gap has really effected me. I was raised by a fiercely strong woman with a degree in engineering and an emotional loving father who wouldn't change a tire if his life depended on it. They encouraged me to be whomever I wanted to be, societial constraints be damned, from day one. And because of that strong foundation, I've never really given much concern about folks who stick with the traditional "boys wear blue, girls wear pink" school of thought.

Honestly, I believe most people (at least in the Western world) these days are concerned less and less about gender-specific roles. Women are no longer wearing the back-breaking corsets of yesteryear (well, some are :evilgrin: ) and men are no longer out there hunting and gathering. There are women in combat roles, men as nurses, so on and so forth. Hell, 100 years ago women weren't even able to vote in elections in America (with the exception of some of the western territories) so I find the fact that there are women in major political positions all across the world damned refreshing.

But I do understand the inherent basic desire to adhere to gender roles. The survival of our species lies with the ability to properly identify a mate and reproduce. And because of that, I doubt there will ever be total gender equality in the sense of appearance. If society dictated that everyone dress androgynously, the traditional dating scene would be all shot to hell.

In closing... wait, did I have a point? Not really. Just be confident in who you are and the right people will respect that. Anyone who tries to label you based upon your gender, race, appearance religion or sh*t, even age isn't the sort of person anyone should really pay much mind to in this day and age.

...is it just me, or is it ironic that I've been reading Shakesphere's "Macbeth" for English?

If I were to quote everyone who made an important statment in my post, it'll go on forever, since pretty much everything said so far is true. I'll throw in my opinion.

I was raised to be a good little girl, taught that, like Ai said, sexual indo is bad, sexual feelings were bad, porn was bad, and so on. The ironic thing is, whatever my parents did to make me this perfect princess, I did the opposite. They wanted me to wear a dress, I stubbonly refused and wanted to wear shorts. They didn't want me to play Pokemon because it wasn't a "girl-thing"; I tricked them into thinking it wasn't "non-violent" (well, it's only pixel images attacking each other, so I thought that there was no harm). They gave me pink blankets and that when I was a new born, resulting in me thinking six years later after the said event "Why do girls have pink? It's so...girly." But, stereotypical weak women aren't usually shown all the time. Take "Macbeth" for example. Lady Macbeth (a main character) isn't a weak person at all in the play, only until she becomes mentally unstable. She was strong, ruthless and determind, and that was written in the 1500's or something.

As for the boys, I knew a few guys a couple years back, who were cool; they didn't really care what other people thought and just did their own thing. One day, one of them recived news that his grandfather died, and he burst into tears. And you know what? While his friends comforted him, one guy yelled out "Hey! Come and have a look at the pussy crying!" to his friends. They laughed at him. That made me mad and slap him. Good thing no teachers were around. If one of those guys I mentioned before were slapped, they would have gone up to a teacher and told them what happened. Thankfully, this guy's pride was the only thing he had, resulting only in a bitter hatred for me, which I think still lingers to this day. But, like the girls, there aren't always the macho guys out there. I would give an example, but I don't want to refer to "Macbeth" again.

My point? I grew up in a normal town with sterotypical girl/boy roles, yet some of the guys, and only a handful of girls, weren't afriad to do something different and act natural. The maco guy I was talking about before never shed a tear in all of his life until grade seven, where he broke his nose (sucker), thinking that he couldn't cry due to his "cool" nature. Girls were all pretty in pink and that, since the teachers (and usually parents) try to enforce the fact that girls should only be fit for living in the background; seen and not heard. All in all, we live in one craptacular society.

Oooh wow…a lot of hostility in your post Ryona. Y’all are gonna think I’m weird, but I’m gonna say my piece anyway.

Now, I’m a tomboy…no doubts about that. I grew up fishing and playing football and catching bugs and the like….I didn’t wear dresses or play with dolls and no one ever put me in pink. No one in my family ever tried to tell me this was wrong or that I was bad for the way I acted.

I did have an earlier curfew than my younger brother…but so what? My parents were just making sure I was safe. (now that didn’t mean I didn’t sneak out a lot) Sure, he got in a lot of trouble….but did I think it was unfair? Not really. My brother’s the baby..he pretty much got what he wanted and still does. Do I think that’s fair? I am a lot more responsible than he is because nobody hands me anything. All I have in life I earned on my own.

Now about the gender roles. I agree with Jester. There are a lot of men who like being the one that financially supports their family…and lots of women who love staying home with their children. Are they wrong? No. Everyone has to do what they think is best. People who choose to live their lives in this manner are no more right than a stay at home dad and a working mom…or two working parents…or a woman who decides to never marry and have kids…Everyone has their own way of living their lives and no one should say that they are right or wrong just because they themselves would not do things that way.

Personally…I would be very happy as a housewife, I think. I would not want someone else raising my children. I would hope that my Husband would have a good job and could take care of me while I raised the children. If that is not the way things work out….well, there are a hundred different options out there. None of them are wrong….just not how everyone would do it. It has nothing to do with being oppressed or the fact that I had a pink blanket in the hospital.

I get the impression you're only looking at a very select group...I've never met a 'real' man who said it was wrong to cry or stuff like that...The people you're referring to are called posers, and they should just be ignored.

As for gender roles, well, there are and will always differences between men and women, and I don't think there's anything wrong with decribing characteristics as masculine or feminine. You are right, balance is the key, but we shouldn't all become androgynous either (I'm not saying you suggested we should).

As cliched as it sounds, just live your life and be who you want to be without worrying whether or not you're 'supposed' to act that way. That's what being a real man or woman is about.

Men work and women make food and babies. The end.

A friend of mine said something interesting about this a while ago. She was talking about how men are portrayed in movies and video games especially has ushered in a new era of male low self-esteem akin to the kind women feel when they see supermodels and pop stars and such.

It's an interesting thing. Apparently stuff like male anorexia is up. So, gender roles have many varied effects-- it's not just that men can't cry or show emotion, but we'd better be able to bend steel girders.

A lot of it goes back to what I've been saying about Hollywood movies and how men and women are portrayed-- the actors chosen, specifically. I mean, why did Hugh Jackman have to be cast as Wolverine and not, say, Danny Devito? Why Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible and not, I dunno, Jason Alexander?

If you watch interviews with Tom Cruise, by the way, he comes off as not likeable, whereas Jason Alexander is a great guy in real life. Funny how their roles in movies are totally opposite.

Sorry. I was in rant mode. :tanime:


And yes, things have gotten better over the past 100, 50, and even 25 years. But it's still pretty bad. Popculture in particular is still encouraging gender stereotyping.
And I personally don't have a problem with people looking androgynous, though I can see how things can get confusing. lol


This is so damn true.
Examples are very common in television and movies. It's still pretty rare to find females playing the role of the leading, strong, reliable character that everyone turns to for support and confidence.

We need more Buffys.

OMG Ryona you just opened up a can of worms with me! I agree full heartedly with this portion of your post. I can't stand how women are portrayed in the media. It is the reason why I couldn't watch reality tv shows that featured a bunch of women viaing for the attention of a millnair, or the attention of Flava Flav, DISGUSTING!!!!! all the shows are put out to exploit a vile sterotype about women being lazy, greedy, selfish, decietful, conninveing, lying, gold digging whores!! Which is a serious slap in the face to any woman who has isn't like that and actually tries to work hard for get to where they are.

And yet these are real live women in America who are F***ing it up for the rest of us and destroying what diginaty and respectabilablity that hard working independent women have worked so hard for!!! Seriously sometimes women are their own woest enemies! I'm just sick of this sterotype in media that women are just sex objects that are whores looking to get laid with a rich guy and live the easy life.

And why is it so many sit-coms and shows and hell even cartoons there is the tradition of the stay at home wife and the working husband? Thse are modern day shows to. Like Every body Loves Raymond, and that CGI movie The Incrediables and Family Guy and American Dad for example. Now I'm not nocking stay at home moms or house wives, but why can't their be more shows that feature wives and mothers with nice careers along side their husbands instead of just being stay at homes moms? This is the 21 century and I'm a little sick of this enfoced sterotype in the media :evil:

You're posting, birthing a baby, and making cookies and cakes? All at the same time? Cripes.

Women are prettier with their mouths shut, so I've been told.

LOLZ! Brodie done brought down the hizouse!

Anyways, I think some people get waaay too bent out of shape on this issue. Dudes are good at fighting, and chicks are good at gossiping and getting kidnapped. That's just the way the world works!

I'm a firm beilever that stereotypes are there...because they're TRUE! Sure, there are anomolies. Not all Irish people drink until they beat their wife and pass out. Not all asian kids have sweet ass rides with some crazy racing kit installed. Not all black people play gangsta rap in their low riders and wear do-rags. Not all white people from the southern states live in trailers, wear wife beaters and do jigs in barns....but most do!

Not all women are physically weak, or content with being a "simple" house wife, but most are! Not all dudes are macho machines who never cry...but the ones who don't are gay!

This should clear everything up. I hope I have enlightened you all.

You are such a jerk, Peanut. I love you.

I helped. Thanks for giving credit where credit is due.

Oh, come on... :roll:

While you are half right about stereotypes usually being true, it doesn't mean that stereotypes are absolute and strictly the way things are or should be.

Yes, men are usually phycally stronger than women; but it takes more than raw strength to be a capable fighter. And men gossip just as much as women. The only difference is when men gossip, it's called "guy talk" or "male bonding".
And women are not "good" at getting kidnapped. That's just nonsense.

And men who are intouch with their emotions and are not afraid of being human are not simply "gay".

Stereotypes are ridiculous. they just hold people down to thinking that particular genders, races, ages, etc are supposed to be a certain way and that's final.
This kind of ******** keeps people from evolving.

Quiet, Men are talking.

You two are so NOT being cool and funny. I hope you realize that.

I pretty much agree with everyone....and I think that Brodie and Peanut are both being funny. There has been less gender roles than in the past, but I don't see them ever stopping because people are raised to act a certain way, and then teach their kids to act the same way...starting from the blue or pink blanket.

I disagree, I find it very funny. And that's what really matters. Peanut thinks its funny, he matters.

And I don't think youre the one to judge for everyone if we're not bring cool or funny. So don't try.

Come off of it. Its not like we're being -COMPLETELY- serious. Just mostly.

(At the risk of being off-topic)

So what you're saying is if I don't listen to rap music and treat women like life size action figures, I'm not normal?

I believe that men are the root of the problem. I believe that all macho men have a subliminal desire to keep women down for fear of loosing their superiority. In history, we have seen how men always arrange things to keep women underneath them. Japan is one of the worst counteries at this, making the women become a housewife if she gets pregnant, and training girls that it is okay to become a prostitute, and then teaching 11 year olds the same thing.

Religions do it, politics do it, churches do it (ever heard of "Men's Meetings"), Pop culture does it, and I could go on and on. In fact, in pop culture, women are expected to star on the cover of playboy at one point in their career, wear revealing clothing, sing about sex, and rub pelvisis with rappers/pimps to get on MTV to promote their new single. It's a fu*king sick situation that makes me want to vomit the more I see it. Volentary sex slave market. That's all it is. I've always been a fan of the strong women in music, namely, the women that refuse to sell out to pop culture and live the way they want to live, singing about the things they want. It's just hard to do that sometime because the media buries them unless they fall into their predetermined sexually discriminated place in society. The problem now is that they can't even get into the industry because the men that control it will block them unless they do what they are told.

Macho men can go stright to hell. That's my opinion. I loathe the way that guys refuse to show emotions, and I detest that fact that guys feel that they only way they believe they can be a man is to put someone else down. It dosen't make them a bigger man. It makes them a bigger ***. Women in general are smarter than about 90% of the male population of the Earth anyway. They just want to use their muscle to keep the women in a subordinate role. Well, guess what macho people. The day where muscle determines who rules the world is ending quickly.

Point is, I hate macho men. I wish that more guys would show themselves to be true human beings and not emotionally handicapped pricks. If the men of the world could wake up, show women respect, realise that they have emotions and are just as fragile of beings as the women are, the world would be a better place. If the men of the world would wake up and see that the two of them working together as a team, would make them truly invincible, the world would be a better place. Unfortunately, there is only a small percentage of people in the world that believe such as this. The others are too busy swinging their wangs in the wind to ever wake up and release what insensitive assholes they really are.

Just because I am a more sensitive person, that does not make me a ***. If someone tells me that I am, I tell them to go to hell. I'm happy with who I am, even if people see me as an outcast because I don't strut my sh*t.

Might wanna' check that....:lol:

Damn bloody straight, TMB!! :D

This is the exact wisdom and seriousness this thread and the whole world needs.

TMB, my friend, you are the best. :)

See...I take great offense to that as a middle class southern white woman.....this just goes to prove you can never please everyone all the time. No one will ever be happy no matter how the world is. Live and let live. No one is right, no one is wrong...so long as we are all human, we will make mistakes and learn. What is right and good for one person...may not be for the next. Why does it matter so much?

Are you serious??? Im not saying our Gender gap doesn't exist, but ****, it's better than it was a while ago, even in the nineties, and its getting better. Will it ever be perfect? A-duh. No.
What this thread really needs is more men talking.


Joking, by the way...

Ive just come to terms with the fact that while women are smater then men*In most cases* their too emtional to do jobs like, being president. Would you want our president to be on their period and mad at another country? A president with the power to declare war.

Not every women is that way but majority rules. As where not every guy is a sexist pig who sees women as a hunk of meat and not a person. But that is how women see guys and even if their not like that we can't stop ourselves from assumeing sterotypes from the second we meet someone.

"Oh he's black I hope he doesn't try and rob me"
"Oh he's asian he must be good at math"
"Oh he's white he probly has a high paying job"
"Oh he's mexcian he probly crossed a boarder to get here"

It falls into race as much as gender.

well...you may have been joking, Brodie...but there is truth there...we need serious talk from the OTHER side of the debate.

I know we've got some Macho guys here to debate the other side of this...and some traditional women. Otherwise this is not a debate...it is just another example of idealistic talk and puffing of hot air that is found in so many politicians...That in and of itself looks bad. What really changes the world is action. Every day life is action.

EDIT: I'm a traditional roles kinda gal...I can take up that side. I personally like if a guy takes care of me...I like guys to be stronger...and make more money...and hold doors open for me.

I like looking nice and smelling nice and wearing earrings and jewlery.

I don't see anything wrong with having kids and staying home to raise them.

And....call me very old fashioned....but sex is between the two people involved and no one else....I don't go carousing around and telling all my exploits..and I don't wanna hear about other people's

there..that should get my head bit off nicely.

Um... I can assure you that women are not so insane when it's that time of the month as you may think.

And women are not "too emotional" to do any job right. I don't know where you're getting that idea from.

Fact is, America really needs a woman as president. Just look at how much the current president is ****ing around. It'll take a woman to clean up the massive mess that dick will leave behind when his time is up.

Oh I know that, I'm just stateing one of the MANY sterotypes that we all fall a victem to.

That one was one of the reasons they said women couldn't vote. That and voting would make them more manly and we didn't want manly women -_-

Okay. What I'm gonna voice is probably not gonna make me any friends, but I absolutely loathe it when people say "women are smarter than men". It's just about as stupid as saying "if women ruled the world, there would be no such thing as war." Way to equalize the sexes, there by putting women up on a pedistal. As a woman, I don't want to be revered as this wise, intelligent, peace-loving being solely based upon the fact that I have a vagina. I know just as many female idiots as I know male idiots. I've said it once, and I'll say it again: idiocy knows no bounds.

But don't hate on Brodie and Peanut, because they brought up pretty f*cking valid points. Conversations like this need devil's advocates otherwise they just become a huge circlejerk.

I think the word to describe the last section of that prior post is "Genius."

True THAT sh*t.

And I believe Brodie and myself are being quite cool and funny.

Sorry...I have to do this.

http://www.orlyowl.com/orly.jpg

I agree DH. There are idiots, douche bags and creatons of all races, colors, and genders. Women are smarter in some things where as males have their strengths.

Why don't we just leave it at this:

Be yourself. If you want to fall in to a gender roll, good for you. If you don't, that's good too. Just do what makes you happy.

pwncycle.



Men wouldn't let women vote because they were afraid they would vote for women and thus weaken the male establishment's power over society. Kind of a touchy subject, but I've always noticed the way that southern curches force women to wear dresses and such to service. Sounds like a slightly less restrictive version of a certain religious dress code.

Frankly, the male presidents are the biggest problem because they've got the testosterone to blow up 5/7 continents. They pick fights, and start wars so they can play with other people's lives as though they are action figures on a map. I feel a female president would be far more civil and level headed when making decisions that affect the lives of millions of people, and possibly billions.

Macho man + big red button = Independance Day without the aliens.

I don't think so

There wasn't a group of men like in the miller lite commercials that got together and decided women were inferior