Splinter has Nobody
 

You know I just thought of the fact that the turtles all have some one to relate to or has a friend to comfind in or some one that they have a crush on...except Splinter. :(

I mean we spend so much time analising the turtles complex relationships and how they are lacking in some form or another, but really the one character that has no one to relate to on any level is Splinter. He is a mutant too and unlike the turtles (who are the same age as each other, and can at least interact with one another) he has no one. I mean the other turtles have each other and can relate with each other on different levels, and in addition to that each turtle has at least one friend out side their family to interact with.

Raphael has Casey and to a lesser extent that Tricertron guy

Donatello has April, Leather Head, and Professor Honeycutt

Leonardo has Usagi

Michelangelo has Klunk

Splinter doesn't have any body. There isn't any body his own age or on the same maturity level or common interest that he can interact with. Who does he have? Four rambuctious teenagers who act as his sons not his friends (at least not on a peer level). Poor Splinter :(

I thought you just said he had Nobody.

Splinter has his soap operas.

Maybe if he tried actually being a family man once in a while instead of meditating and being wrapped up in himself all the time, and if he made his sense of humor a little more respectful towards others, this wouldn't be the case for him.

He's a Buddhist. He's inherently a loner.

Well Buddhist philosophy discourages the fear being alone with oneself. Loneliness is a delusion of sorts. But the flipside is to be able to give freely of yourself to others. To have an open heart.

Perhaps in Splinter's philosophy he does not actively seek companionship because he already someone to whom he can give of himself. Several someones.

I would argue that he does have a lot of people with whom he could talk if he liked, as Krow said.

Raph should have introduced Mrs M to Splinter :D

Or, you can think about it this way. Splinter didn't just get along with one person, but many. So he doesn't have nobody, he has everybody.

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Mrs. M?

I believe Mrs. M is the blind woman that Raph helped in Touch and Go.

Oh yeah! I only saw that ep once. I need to get my butt in gear and arrange those eps in chronological order on DVD. I'll never watch 'em otherwise... Don't worry marketers. I own them all. :P

I second the "he has everyone" idea. The dude can't be lonely with four turtles and a reporter always running around.

oh yes, I did forget about the Daimyo he is I guess around the same age as Splinter (assuming he is that flippen old considering the Daimyo is pretty up there) although as far as vitality and charisma I think Splinter is more energetic than the Daimyo, who apears more frail and weak.


You know you have a good point he does have a very close relationship with Leonardo. And they do have something in common. How lucky for the both of them that they share the same passion, and Splinter does seem to have the vitality to still keep up with Leonardo still. Actually the father son relationship between Leo and Splinter is one of my favorite dynamics in the new toon. They are so alike and get along so well.

as far as old toon Splinter goes I think its even more tragic in his case than even in the new toon. Because Splinter was a human being who had friends and family, maybe some one he loved and a life and then he gets turned into a freak and now has lost all that because of what he is now. In New toon Splinter's case being turned into a mutant was a step up for him, but Old toon Splinter was a serious step back because he was an intellctual being that was turned into, basically a monster, and his life and his coicual is radically affected by it. And even if he has aquantices I don't think he can nessicarily go to their house and have tea with them. He basically has no one.


that is about the most perplexing thing I have ever read. Care to expand on that, and explain what you mean exactly? Are you talking about New toon Splinter or old toon Splinter? I don't understand what you mean that Splinter isn't family man and that he is wrapped up into him self. Because if nothing else Splinter is all about his family. And your comment that he has a diisrespective sence of humour confuses me too. When has not shown respect for others?

What are you talking about. Family means more to Master Splinter than his own life. His meditation is just his hobby, something he does. You could call out Don for the same reason seeing as how his emerses himself in his science and tends to shut out everything around him. same with Mike and his video games, Leo and his training, and Raph and his loner attitude.

As for his humor, it's far from disrespectfull, he just has a very dry, sarcastic sense of humor.

Why do you have it in for Master Splinter?

New Toon Splinter has friends! He has Ancient One (who is more or less his grandfather), He has the Damiyo... umm... yea

OK, i admit my words about Master Splinter were too harsh. I do believe he treasures family greatly & does not actually "have nobody". However I do believe there are faults to Master splinter that tend to be overlooked. For instance i know meditation is only a hobby, but I do think he spends a few too many hours of the day doing it, the same problem the turtles may have with their own hobbies. Splinter serves two role in the turtles lives, "father" & "sensei", and sometimes I think he is a little too absorbed in his role as a "sensei" and not enough absorbed in his role as a "father". The least he could do is try to have a few more "real" conversations with his sons, or ask them to join him in meditation more often. Also, when Splinter deals with his sons by whacking them with his stick or slapping them in the face ("Shredder Strikes Part 2") I do believe he is somewhat out of line. If you were in his position, when you deal with your mortal enemies, violence is usually the only way to resolve conflicts; BUT when it comes to your own family, you deal with your problems by talking things out (raise your voice if necessary) and try to come up with positive ways to resolve fights, avoid them in the future and put them behind you, what you DON'T do is start hitting them in the back of the head with your hand or your cane, like when he did to Michaelangelo in "Bishop's Gambit" for saying "Shell, we're good" (I thought to myself, "Now that was completely unnecessary!"). My belief is the turtles learned this from him and that is why they do it to each other (especially michaelangelo) when they get on each others' nerves, and this would be a major area where he "went wrong". I also believe maybe he chooses "physical assault" as a form of discipline as a way of lashing out on account of his bitter past, and while I do believe he deserves pity for seeing his master murdered right before his eyes, that's still no excuse to take it out on his present family.
Well, maybe there is something else. If I remember the original comic book storyline correctly, the primary reason Master Splinter began training his sons in the first place was so one day they could avenge his master; yet in the new toon, Splinter clearly tells his sons in the flashbacks of them as kids that he never wants them "going topside", and when they're teenagers he still discourages it. Now I believe when a family wants to train their children at an extremely early age (in martial arts, to be a bodybuilder, etc.), they most definitely need some outrageously provacative type of motivation (and to do it simply to pass on a family tradition is not enough). When Splinter said in "Shredder strikes part 1" that he hoped the day his sons learned who the Shredder is would never come, I honestly didn't believe he was telling the whole truth. Now while I'm sure Master Splinter's intentions for his sons' lives are good, I believe his motives are somewhat foul.
When I said Splinter was "wrapped up in himself" I was thinking that maybe he was a little too concerned with his own life problems and not so much concerned with those of other innocent people. For instance, whenever a situation came up on the surface which involved Shredder, this was the only time I remember Splinter encouraging his sons to go topside and fight, he didn't at first but later on he did. Now while the shredder was indeed a crimelord in New York and taking him out would most likely do the whole city a favor, think about this: when the Triceraton invasion came along and all those innocent people were kidnapped (April and Casey included) and brought to central park, splinter discouraged his sons from leaving the lair to be of any help, but they made the noble decision and went anyway, and in this case ended up doing the whole world a favor, & if the fugitoid hadn't come back and triggered the crisis all over again, eventually leading to the turtles being held at knifepoint in Bishop's lab, Splinter would have never gotten himself involved and helped out.
How about in "Secret Origin part 1" when Michaelangelo was trying to grab the riceballs in vain and splinter said "There is a lesson to be learned here, but I'm enjoying this too much to think of what it is?" I know he loves his sons, but personally, I don't find it respectful to laugh at other people's expense, no matter how slight an expense it is. Also, in Fast Forward during the video game episode, when he lectured Cody about not adventuring when cody is very smart and he actually saved the turtles' lives that episode I thought to myself, "Geez Splinter, give him a f***ing break, he saved your sons' lives and he's not a careless, helpess fool, so don't f***ing treat him like one!"
Personally, if I were one of Splinter's sons, I sure wouldn't be proud to end up like him.

Give me a break. So Master Splinter whaps them over the head when they get out of line. Did you ever think they may deserve it at times. Master Splinter has to be stern, to keep the TMNT strong. He knows when to be a sensei and a father. It's not like the old toon where Splinter was more of a teacher. In the new toon and comics he is the father figure. Why do you think he calls them his sons.

Yes, in the comic Spliner originally trained the TMNT for vengance. But you gotta remember, the comic was never planned to last beyond one issue. Thats why as the series went on he bacmae more gentle.

As for the new toon, did you ever think that Splinter discouraged the turtles from going topside to save people is because, THEYRE NOT SUPERHEROES. He was trying to keep his sons safe, not having them get invovled in matter that would get them killed. That shows he cares, unlike someone like Professor X who sends his students off to die. As for the Shredder that was diffrent. One, this was a personal matter. And two, that Turtles already started the fight, so they had to finish it.

Master Splinter isn't disrespectful or self absorbed. Hes far from it, there has never been one incarnation of Splinter that was like that. And don't you remeber in Shredder Strikes part 1 where he saved the Turtles from getting killed by the Shredder, or when he helped reunite them in that same episode. Also in Same as it Never Was when Mike said Splinter gave his life saving them. Or in Exodus when he took that electrocution for Mikey.

Just because we don't see too much squishy family moments doesn't mean there IS none of it. Episodes of 100% cute father-son bonding would send the kiddies to sleep, and however mature the new toon was (*sigh*) overall, they still had to keep it a little actionified.

Just the way the Turtles treat Splinter attests to the fact that he is a caring father who has earned their respect as sons.

And I like his dry sense of humor. He's a lot like MY dad, actually...

No, I don't think they deserve it; and even though they aren't your average family, it doesn't make physical assault any more appropriate a way to deal with family; he can be strict,keep them strong, and discipline them without doing that. And I'm not saying Splinter is self-absorbed, but i did think it was a little peculiar that the only enemy he eventually desired them to face is the one he had a personal matter with, and I have seen him be disrespectful once or twice when someone didn't deserve it, some examples I've already given.

Also, I don't have anything against the show being actionfied, I know darn well it's all about that, but some of the family moments they have had i found to be a bit sour, and more so than they had to be.

Big deal.. So Splinter is strict at times. But that only cuz he cares about his family.

Yes he's a dick and hides things (like in the Ninja Tribunal storyline where he reveals he knew about the true Shredder all along. Uh...like he couldn't have told them in the fraking first place?! ) to supposadly protect em. But there are things he should have revealed over the years (like oh I don't know....the Ninja Tribunal! :P ).

Even in the comics after Splinter's death they're finding out things they didn't know. Like Leo accidentally stumbling on to the Battle Nexus (where he's currently befriending Shredder/Oroku Yoshi).

So um...yea... Splinter's a dick but he's still a loving father...altho with his love for soaps...perhaps he's the mother too. :lol:

By the way your saying pysical assult, youre sounding like he just goes around kicking the **** out of them on a daily basis(that's just during training). It's just a slap over the head, you mean to tell me you never did that whenever someone said or did something stupid. I do it to my cousins, doesn't mean I'm mean or abusive, I'm just setting them straight. Thats what Splinter does. I'm sorry if he's not Danny Tanner enough for you.

As for that thing with the Shredder, I already said, the only reason he had them go back and fight the Shredder, is because the turtles already started the fight. So they had to go back and finish it, otherwise The Foot would have hunted them down(which they eventually did, but thats another story).

Maybe I used the wrong terminology, when I said "physical assault", the slaps were what I was referring to, not their training. And NO actually, i never slapped people behind the head for doing something stupid, because I DO consider it mean and also immature; that's one of the areas where the new TMNT show is not "more mature". Slapping/spanking/hitting as a form of discipline only makes people want to hit you back, and rather than setting someone straight, I believe it more likely promotes further rebellious, possibly violent, or even suicidal (if it goes on long enough), behavior. And like I said before, hitting is how one deals with his mortal enemies, NOT his family (no offense). The only time I've felt right about hitting people is if they hit me first and were in no way related to me, otherwise I settle it with simple, straight conversation.
In case you misinterpreted me, I didn't imply that Splinter shouldn't be strict. What I implied was splinter should be strict "with his voice" NOT "with his cane/hands".

:ohwell:

Okay.......now tell me. Have any of the turtles developed anyone these signs. No, So what the fudge is the big fudging deal. Sure he's whapped them upside the head on occasions. But have they become better people? Yes! So he's obviously done something right. Now I'm not saying thats the end result of the slapping, but I'm just saying. Him being strict but caring turned them into the TMNT we know today.

ok you know what triplexxx, I think in some instances you are being a little nit-picky but you do touch upon some very good points about Splinter. He does seem to have his faults and his actions can seem questionable to say the very least. In your post you touch upon three things about Splinter that I think are valid points that suggest some selfish or not quite so noble behavior on Splinter's part.

And they are Splinter acts as both father and sensie to the turtles but some times the role of sensie over shadows the father role, to a point that makes him take unfair risks with his sons lives. And you are right I think we as fans have the tendasay to over look Splinter's actions at times because he is such a nice rat, but there are times when I Splinter gets more absorbed with being the sensei than being the father. And I'm not singling out the new toon Splinter, it shows in the most mediums of his character.

You have some good points here in this post. Splinters actions toward his sons are bit contradictive. He trained them to fight so that they could be ninjas and know the art of invisabilty so they can't be spotted easily becasue they are freaks of nature. So him teaching them how to be ninjas could be excused by his desire to teach them to be able to move around undectected by the general public so they do not get kidnapped by sciencetists and dissected. But then why did he teach them such advanced forms of nintisu? He could very well have taught them some moves in order to protect them selves if they get discoved, but lets face it, be brought them up like warriors and to act as warriors.

Lets face it, its ommitted in the new that he wanted brought them up to avenge yoshi aganist Shredder, but even though Splinter in the new says he didn't want them to ever meet Shredder, itsw clear that he trained them for the very purpose of vengence. there is no getting around that. So Splinter's attentions toweard the turtles are a little questionable.

Mrs Morrison raph befriended when he was being chased by Foot dudes.

Ok to continue on with what I was saying earlier (I had to go to class so i had to cut my self short) was that Triplexxx did point out some stuff about Splinter that isn't exactly noble. I think to an extent Triplexxx is right. It does appear that Splinter has less problems of the turtles going after Shredder than any other villian. Splinter goes from not wanting the turtles to have any thing at all to do with the Shredder to wanting them to take him down for murduring Yoshi.

And I under stand that Shredder was a menace that needed to be stopped but in Exodus was it really nessary for all of them to go after the shredder the way that they did. He was leaving the planet and not going to bother the earth or the TMNT any more, but Splinter wanted to take him out. Splinter was clearly looking for vengence and they boys where all about to sacrifice their lives in order to do it. Now we can all say that the turtles where willing and Shredder was evil and Slinter deserved to get his vengence, but the point is---was it fair of Splinter to raise the turtles as ninjas with the objective of getting revenge on Shredder? I mean putting ninja protacal and honor of avenging ones master aside, was it right for Splinter to use the turtles in this way? I mean there is doubt that he loves them but in a perverse sort of way his treatment of the boys is a bit cold blooded, and it had consequences on Leonardo because he took the brunt of the responciablity of his family nearly getting killed.

And a crazy New York vigillante wanna be, and the Damio, and Usagi Yojimbo... etc.

Let me address the Exodus point.

1. Shredder was going to kill the Utroms, friends of the TMNT, why wouldn't they want to stop him?

2. You did know that once Shredder finished with the Utroms, he was going to come back to earth and conqer it right?

Also, before you blame Master Splinter for the Exodus thing, Leo and the rest of the TMNT insisted on helping, Splinter didn't force him.

You and triplexxx are putting so much heat on Master Splinter, but his treatment of the TMNT is nowhere near cold blooded. If your gonna come down on Splinter, you might as well come down on Kakashi, Gai, and all the other teachers of Naruto. But I digress.

Master Splinter has a tough job. He has to be a sensei and a father, and he handles it perfectly. He's gotta be tough on his sons, to keep them strong warriors. But he is also there for his sons emotionally. He wouldn't put his sons in extremley dangerous situations all willy-nilly.


Granted he trained the boys to kill Shredder, but didn't want them going up against him at that time, but think about it. The TMNT weren't ready to face the Shredder yet. And it was apparant from the fac that Splinter had to intervine to save them from getting killed. They could take the Foot, but no Shredder himself. Thats probably why he didn't want them going up against him yet.

Master Splinter doesn't let his two roles overlap, if they did, don't you think the Turtles would have left him long ago.

Where could they possibly have gone, it's not like they had a choice in this matter.

Yes, yes they did. The sewers in New York are vast. They could have found a new lair.

Ok, let me first say that I am not trying to bash Splinter, or come down hard on his character or be overly harsh. I was just commenting that despite the fact that triplexxx was being rather nit-picky about some of his/her examples about Splinter that he/she did touch upon some good points about Splinter's character--in general, not just in the New toon incarnation of him. And that is because of his vendette against Shredder he trained the turtles to fight and kill him for vengence. What I was asking every one, was to be opened minded enough to look at this aspect of Splinter and the reasons why he trained the turtles for this purpose, if whether or not he was acted a bit unfairly toward them as people to raise them to carry out a vendette.

Thats all. I'm not exactly condeming or condoning Splinter, because in thruth I like Splinter and his character and do belive he is a good father, thought, like any character Splinter has his faults and isn't perfect, and it could be discussed.

I am trying to be open minded. But look at it this way, he did train the TMNT to avenge Master Yoshi, but think,if thats all he raised them for, wouldn't he have discarded them as soon as they offed Shredder?

I think Splinter is content as he is and, like Yoda in Star Wars, doesnt need to rely on others to be happy.

That is very true. And I have no doubt in my mind that Splinter loves his sons very much. Because he has shown that he has in every single medium that has depicted the TMNT (including the old toon though people may refute that). However, and I know am about to get flamed for adding this point, the conflict between Splinter and Shredder was between them and only them. I know that Splinter was old but if he wanted to avenge Yoshi's death why didn't he do it him self? Instead of bringing four innocents into the vendette that had nothing to do with them into it?

I bring this question up because I came upon a site called Dissected and it has a section about Splinter. Now mind you the site is exclusively is about the old toon, the one where Splinter is actually Hamato Yoshi and gets turned into a rat by Shredder. And it is also stated that much of the content is just "tongue-in-cheek" observations that aren't to be taken to seriously but it does seem to have some good aguments about Old Toon Splinter. Here is the Link:

http://www.geocities.com/tmntdissected/splinter.htm

Just read it all the way though, and remeber that the site is talking abvout Old Toon Splinter. And that the writer of the site isn't being entirely serious.

I took a look at the article, and your right, it is all about the all toon. It's obvious this persons knowledge of the TMNT ends there. If he bothered the read the comic, he would see that Splinter wasn't as "kick butt" as he was in the cartoons. It's no wonder why he would train his sons to help him carry out his vendetta. But he's not a bad guy, he does'nt stand in the way of his sons intrest. He also does'nt favor one over the other. The dude should read the comics more, or watch the new toon. He would see not only does he train Leo, but also helps Raph with his anger issues, let's Don continue his quest for knowledge, and in that short story in the back of Tales issue 25, encourages Mikey's artistic nature.

If Splinter only used his sons for vengence, he would have cast them off after they killed the Shredder. Splinter loves his sons, he didn't use them as tools, he would never do that, otherwise he would be just like the Shredder. Granted, in the comic he trained the Turtles to avenge Master Yoshi, however, it's not like their childhood was filled with non stop training, otherwise, the Turtles would be alot different, they would be more cold and merciless.

Oh for god's sake. Mankind has been using "physical assault" as a way of discipline since mankind became mankind. It is still used in most of the world I would reckon... do you really believe yourself to be more civilized than the billions of parents who've used physical punishment over the history of mankind? Do you know better than all of them how they should've raised their children?

My father used to physically discipline me. The same can be said about many of my friends. It taught us discipline and to stay out of trouble and to know our boundaries so that the family could function harmonically. And I've never heard any of them complain. And most of us had great childhoods.

Physical punishment works. It does not ALWAYS work, but nothing does. It's a good and proven way through the course of so many years that it sounds insulting to even suggest that it's wrong... even more so when you consider it's only been in vogue for a few decades in some parts of the world...

But the other points you made about Splinter I can agree more with. Splinter is not a saint, and he has his faults. I mean come on, he didn't HAVE to put his sons through countless hours of hard (and dangerous) training to become lethal shadow warriors. So why did he? I do believe revenge was the main motivation, although that might've changed over the years when he grew wiser. I mean, he started off as a rat... probably, as a rat, he did not know much about concepts such as ethics and honor and how to raise children (and why), and the only thoughts he might've had were those of revenging his master. Therefore, he could have adopted the turtles not out of kindness (to protect, raise and teach), but more so to use them as his tools of revenge?

I apologize if I sounded overly touchy about the subject of physical punishment, it's just that I grew up in a home & family where violence is never used to resolve conflicts, and we too manage to be a happy, functional family. I do understand that for some, "physical discipline" is looked at as useful, necessary & acceptable; while others look at it as useless, unnecessary & immoral. My POV just happens to be the latter.

I have recently just started to watch the new toon, and in most cases, I love it. Cases I don't like it, Splinter's unrelenting use of his cane on Michelangelo. It bothers me. I mean, if Splinter is still having to use his cane to so call "knock some sense in Mikey's brain" then the method is apparently ineffective, because he seems to be doing it all the time.

As for the way Splinter is training his sons, I think he is doing the best to his knowledge and experience. He doesn't have access to great schools, or for the Turtles to excell in other spheres because of the situations.

I don't think he's bothered by it. After all, everyone does it. Splinter, Leo, Raph, Don, even that Tribunal member.