New Anti-Gaming movie from religious extremists
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIu3J...elated&search=

Joe Lieberman, Jack Thompson, Religious Leaders, Pastors, and soccer moms. The whole gang is here to play aren't they.

"OMG, terrorists used a plane simulator to learn how to blow us up! We must now degenerate society and voluntarily live in the dark ages! It is our only way to protect our virtues! It's what God intended!"

PROTECT THE CHILDREN!

PROTECT THE CHILDREN!

PROTECT THE CHILDREN!


It's always the same old bullsh*t speech, each and every time. The pricks have no quarrel with letting their children see the military blow people's heads off on national news each and every night, but they have every issue seeing polygons go "pop" on the TV. If stores would just enforce the damned ratings system, this would all go away.

"When I started teaching at MIT 15 years ago, students wanted to be film makers. Now they want to be game designers".


People like that are hell bent to preserve the "old system", just like all the religious extremists of the past want to "protect the old ways of life" so they can suppress people and knowledge so they can then proclaim the need for leadership to "their" personal goals. They want people to live the life they led, and nothing else. It's always the same old cycle. Disturbed people do stupid stuff. It doesn't matter if they play games, watch movies, or read the Bible. Why? All of them are violent. Everything is violent. If someone is messed up, they're messed up. If they played video games, it just becomes a convenient scapegoat.

This will stir up some sh*t, then blow over and go away again. Good tactic on their part, I must admit.

oh no.. not them again.. Do they ever give up? Haven't we heard enough from Jack Thompson.. U seen him hwo insane he can be..

Why don't they stick to print? Don't they know motion-pictures are THE DEVIL?!? It would be way cheaper too. I can't wait for the videogame against movies they'll be releasing after this movie against videogames. As god-fearing parents, we shouldn't have to pay a lick of attention to our kids. That's society's job! :x But, the real culprit here in our children growing up violent is fiction in general. I would teach those brats of mine the difference between reality and make-believe if I knew. But, I shouldn't have to! That's society's job! :x We need to ban plays, movies, weapons, music, toys that feature graven images, fictional literature, all forms of pornography and even those sex medications. If a couple is having trouble conceiving, then it must be god's will. Actually, I take that back about weapons. The military needs them to protect us from foreign heretics and pagans. But, they should be banned from the public! The internet has to go too! It's a cesspool of smut and filth and pornography. While we're at it, let's ban medical science. These 'doctors' are playing god, damn it! When we get rid of all of these things, our world will beperfect... because we won't have anything else to blame **** on. However, I simply won't stand by while my world is pushed to the brink of apocalypse! I'd rather sit. You can destroy the world after I die. While I could do something constructive to help, I shouldn't have to. That's society's job! :x

Sincerely god's,
European Football Maternal Parent



Sweet Hera Almighty! Now that I got that out of my system... maybe I can get some sleep! :embarass:

Is this seriously supposed to be an argument?

"OMFG I can't read the ratings system so I allow my 9 year old to play a game where he kills police."

What idiot green lighted this piece of crap? I hate these ass backwards documentaries that basically lie. God's had his fair share of video games to. And what would you know! One of them is a first person shoot that teaches us it's okay to run around shooting goats with rocks. Also teaches us it's okay to commit copyright infringement.

Here's the thing, this documentary was supposed to be about arguments on both sides of the coin. The director or whatever you want to call him even brought it up to gaming press in hopes of getting publicity, then he goes all pulls this "Video games are the devil!" bullsh*t? That's not gonna fly.

I am SO TIRED of people blaming video games for all of society's problems! :x

Oh man, propaganda makes me nauseous. Lately, it's all been about why taking away the rights of the people is good for them... using scapegoats.

And I can't talk people out of being afraid of... everything! They get mad at me if I suggest that handing over power to the government doesn't actually make them safer and happier.

I must admit, I'm a victim of video games. One day I was walking home from school, wearing my denim overalls and my red shirt and cap. As I walked I saw a turtle. I stomped him to death and then threw it's shell at a Goomba. I later ate a mushroom...now I'm numb on my right side from the poison. Are you happy Nintendo of America! ARE YOU!!!

...okay...so, who wants to make a documentery on religious propaganda and what it does to illiminate all common sense in the world of entertainment as we know it?

I know it is reasonable to be afraid of death and war. I know it is reasonable to be conserned for the future of the next generation. But to just go and say "video games are the reason the world is so violent today", or "video games turned my son into a drug addict" is just a bit...well, extreame. Why the hell does the world have to live with people like this is a wonder to me...

It's like a video I watched in Cults class last semester in school. It claimed that TMNT and He-man were "Doorways to Satan" (The name of the video.) Upon that, the whole class groaned. The student aide (the professor was out for a doctor's appointment) stopped the tape and asked the class if our reaction could be our way of saying that they, as our professor had said "saw a demon under every bush." We all were in agreement. He admitted to enjoying Masters of the Universe. Many of the younger kids said they liked TMNT.

In an interview earlier in the series, the cults expert said the reason TMNT and He-man were "doorways" and things of his generation (such as Buck Rodgers and Flash Gorden) weren't is because back in the day the science fiction was just that...fiction. Now more and more sci-fi is becoming sci-fact and kids can't tell the difference. That also elicited a groan from the class. I think that's just the problem. Adults assume that kids can't separate the fictitious world of video games from real life, and in some cases that's true. But most of the time, it's just adults thinking kids are dumber than they are, and that's a shame.

Hah, I learnt one good quote from that trailer. "Whoever tells the stories, defines the culture." I can completely agree with that, but it's not just videogames.

Sure, videogames make people more agressive, that is out of the question. It has been scientifically proven. However, it makes you more agressive in the sense of being louder and shakier and not in the homicidal sense. And this agression goes back after a while. I learnt this from a Dr. Tilo Hartmann who is actually pro-videogaming.

And I still say, videogames aren't to blame if there's a school shooting or GTA. I say videogames are just an expression of feelings. And if you feel the urge to manically shoot terrorists or counter-terrorist units in Counter Strike all day long for weeks on end, then I say there's something wrong. But not the "take the game away" kind of wrong. Maybe the player has trouble at school/work, maybe he/she gets rejected by his/her peers, maybe he/she's getting mobbed, blackmailed or whatever. That's what's wrong. Not Counter Strike per se, but the player playing it.

I mean, I've been playing various incarnations of Unreal Tournament since 1999 and I was taught how to use a gun at a very young age as a sort of sports-thing (looking back, I wouldn't do it again, but hey, I was just a kid.) I never, even when I was feeling really bad, felt the urge to go out and get me a gun to shoot people with or steal a car and rape a hooker or whatnot. Games were just that, games.

I believe it's part of a parent's responsibility to watch out for a child, this includes talking to your kid. And it doesn't begin when the kid's feeling bad. It starts way earlier. I think my mom did a really good job there. She never muttered phrases like "I'll be there for you if you need to talk". She just was there. How she knew when to be where or whether I knew where to find her, I don't know.

For short: Videogames aren't the cause, but they can be an indicator. Just look what your kid's doing, talk to him/her and keep an open relationship with your offspring. Forbidding anything won't help a bit.

EDIT: And am I the only one who feels that religion here is once more just a scapegoat to avoid the "Why"-question? "Oh, well, you know, it was God's will." And while I don't know any of the people in the trailer, I never even heard one reference to a religion in it. So I wonder if not the gamers themselves are projecting their own atheist views on the opposition, creating a similar effect as the ones avoiding the why-question. Perhaps to ignore the question as to why those people are against video games.

Well, aren't Joe Lieberman and Jack Thompson right?

Gamers,take a deep breath and calm down. A month from now, you'll still have your precious video games. This will blow over. No need to be as overzealous in your defense, you guys act just like "Joe Lieberman, Jack Thompson, Religious Leaders, Pastors, and soccer moms" that you so disdain when you get up in arms. Only difference being you guys/gals are on the other side of the issue.

I don't think I'm overreacting at all. This is fearmongering propaganda aimed at further entrenching the power of certain unelected parties who already have way too much power.

Well, in the sense that either video games had to stop being so violent, or they had to come with label warnings so that parents could be informed? Sure. In the sense that video games are Evil Thoughts shot from satanists directly into innocent nine-year-old brains causing them to turn their schools into a bloodspattered terrorist warzone littered with the bodies of NYPD cops? Er... no.

I've never liked the violent beat-em-up shoot-em-up video games. They bore me. I've spent much more time baking cookies than I have playing those video games. At the same time, I've had moments where I seriously just wanted to punch someone in the face for no reason at all, except that it would make me feel better. By the logic of this documentary, all that cookie-baking clearly made me an evil, aggressive person. They don't consider other, much more influential, factors.

Of course not. Do you think Lieberman and the league of evil soccer moms feel they are overreacting? Regardless of what the ulterior motive may be for certain people, you cant deny that a decent amount of people (the aforementioned league) feel there is a problem, much like others and you feel there isnt a problem. They arent the only ones alone in fearmongering. Go back to this comment from ThirdMarioBros in the first post of this thread:

"OMG, terrorists used a plane simulator to learn how to blow us up! We must now degenerate society and voluntarily live in the dark ages! It is our only way to protect our virtues! It's what God intended!"

Nice job of fearmongering from your own group. Its always nice to see the pot calling the kettle black.

You must of forgotten to take your deep breath.

I hardly think TMB's sarcasm is on the level of a propagandizing documentary. One is rolling your eyes, and the other is perpetrating a slow and deliberate manipulation. Last I checked, rolling your eyes didn't make people afraid. More the opposite.

I'm breathing fine, but thank you for your concern.

I generally feel that there's an overreacting on both sides, mainly to prevent the own faction to perhaps see that the others may have a point. I personally don't think either side is completely right, but I say both have points.

As I said in my first post, the walling and yelling and stereotyping on both sides may occur just to prevent yourself from looking at the other side and seeing that they're not eniterly wrong.

There are more than two sides to every issue, including this one. Things are generally always more complicated than they look. I'm not about to get into all of it on this forum.

To answer your earlier question, Anarky, there is a reference to religion in the trailer. A man says, "violence has always been with us; it's been with us since Cain slew Abel," which is a biblical reference. And I don't think gamers are necessarily atheists. Also, the title "Moral Kombat" implies a religious point of view.

Propaganda. Plain and simple. I am not a gamer (I LOVE to watch someone play, but all I do is die...alot) but the very thought of anyone forcing their morals on someone else burns me up :flaming:

Once you are old enough to make decisions....you are responsible for those decisions. If you have children, you have the responsibility to teach them the difference between fantasy and reality...right and wrong, etc. There is no call for finger pointing to take the blame off the parents.

If little Joey goes out and beats the snot out of his classmate, then that is a reflection on the parenting skills, not the video game industry, the media, poor food choices, or any other lame excuse parents will find to make themselves feel better about themselves and their skills as a parent. If parents want to blame somebody for their children's behavior, they better start by standing infront of a mirror.

Kid with icing on her face: I didn't eat the last cupcake. Billy did!

Parent of a convicted murderer: I didn't teach my son to be violent! ...despite the spankings. It was all videogames! ...even though we never could afford them.

Immaturity just kind of blossoms in certain individuals. :ohwell: Instead of growing out of it, they just get more convincing with their manipulation.

See...this is just idiotic bullsh*t. I'd like to see this so-called proof. I've played video games my entire life and I'm quiet and completely stable. Most of these tests are pulled off by companies attempting to sway results in the favor of video games being a cause of violence. The latest one, which was made to look like male college students wanted to smoke up and have unprotected sex right after playing GTA, was proved to be a complete farce. As they completely and utterly skip over so many factors, gloss over important data, and mis-worded everything the published. They forgot to mention the fact that these dorm boys didn't say they would go do the afore mentioned activities, but that they didn't care if people did them. This very case study was used by Jack Thompson to further his ridiculous stand against games.

Anyways, people who don't play games, don't understand games. The reason we all "over-react"? because these are uneducated people trying to put ridiculous censorship on our hobby.

Ever heard of a game called Baulder's Gate: Dark Alliance II? A game about decking out your character in various levels of bad-ass armor and going through dungeons hacking and killing everything? They censored the f*ck out of it before it came to retail. You know why? Because groups were protesting some of the games content. And why? Because the company who owns the rights to Baulder's Gate and the D&D franchise, Wizards of the Coast, also made some kids card games. Not because they actually saw what was in the game, which didn't even come close to the majority of what you see on TV, but because they didn't f*cking know anything and assumed the worst. This ended up not only ruining parts of one of my favourite franchises, it actually ended the entire thing, ruined sales and ultimately brought about the destruction of the amazing Black Isle Studios, and put huge publisher/developer, Interplay, in the hole.

My point is this, if you don't know anything about games, you have no right to an opinion on this matter, because you have no f*cking clue what you're talking about. Period.

When I was little I used to get mad at games I'd throw a controller*I only did that maybe twice* or I'd play another game where I could beat the crap out of people but I never attacked someone for beating me.

Like Peanut said video taped proof would be the best.

You seem to misunderstand the chemical aggressive with "I'm killing you all in a killing spree"-aggressive. Of course, Jack Thompson makes the same mistake, so you're just buying it, basically. However, you're maybe more shaky and more nervous until about five minutes after putting away the controller. Also, he says in the Audiofile that all those processes having to do with aggression are there because of human evolution, so it's not the games but the human being. And he says that nothing happens without an intention. That's all. And you're quite probably used to it. And of course, Dr. Tilo Hartmann, 31 years old whom I interviewed during a round of Quake Arena (and lost) wouldn't know anything about games, would he?

Here's what he has to say (in German)

I'll translate:

You can listen to the whole thing on the site, but it's German. He notes many times that players see a difference between game and reality. He compares the enemies in the games to "Things, like figures on a chessboard". He must be the anti-gamer in person.


I play games, thank you. I just don't post in here, because I'm not really interested in the industry and the tech and whatnot. I just enjoy me a good game every now and then and that's it.

I don't think company politics have any relevance to this discussion. If there is one, please explain it to me.

Again, I play games. Have done it for years. Started off with the SNES and now I'm a PC-Gamer.

Not really blaming or anything, but maybe the overreacting is just feeding their worries.

I don't care if anyone bashes my hobbies. It's just silly. But it is true what Anarky said... Whether or not it is in a bad way has yet to be seen. It has changed people in good ways and bad. They've been doing research on this for many years, with people who DO know things about games and such. I actually did my college papers on the effects of television and video game violence in people.

Of course, it depends on the mentality of the subject right off the bat, also. So it's really hard to say. However, no one ever needs to overreact on something like a game. It'll feed their fire.

I would like to know, what is the "appropriate" reaction level to a documentary made with the apparent sole purpose of defaming an entire industry? One that involves a Senator, no less?

Honestly, football causes much more violence in the world. It's verifiable. Just ask the sports bar crowd. People actually die because of it, sometimes in the stands at the game. So why do we let little kids watch and play football?

Well it's hard to "proove" anything, but there are some really good experiments that do show that video games lead to agression. The thing is, this is short-term agression, not a long term behavior change that would lead to violence. So yes it does lead to agression, but they aren't saying it leads to violence.

Iris, maybe you didn't notice...my comment was dripping with sarcasm. You might be able to tell by the fact that I have a 360 tag in my signature, with not so non-violent games. If I believed Jack Thompson, I'd be playing The Bible Game, for PS2, not Gears of War.

Haha... yeah, actually I figured it was sarcasm, cuz it was you... I just responded anyway. Cuz I'm like that. *shrug* :)

Just making sure. Anyway.

Jack Thompson is just angry he sucked at Mario Bros way back when.

Jealous, is he? :P

Anarky, I wasn't basing my whole post around you. I knew you'd make that mistake, as usual. It was just the first part.

And yeah, my example had a lot more to do with pointing out how uneducated, ignorant, morons jump to conclusions over sh*t they don't understand. Not company politics.

I'm also not going to argue with you about about this Tito guy. I'll just say he's one researcher and he just because he thinks one thing doesn't mean it's 100% indisputable fact. I think it's plainly obvious people think aggressively when playing a violent game, and it seems to me that's all he's saying. F*cking rocket science. Like I said, though, I'm not going to argue with you about it, I saw how childish you acted in that soul colour thread and I know there's no making you change your mind once it's been made.

I really have no argument against violent video games having effects on people, because violent things effect people, pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain. What pisses me off about the whole thing is the lack of knowledge the people making these ridiculous "games are the devil" claims have. That's all.

This is a nice, educated response. Hope you didnt foam on your keyboard.

Do you know the video games opponents stance on games? Or did you just read that your games were in trouble and start digging the trench for a defensive stand. Ive yet to read anything about these guys wanting to take games back to the age of pong. Let me guess, you did some research and found out what their credentials are and came to the conclusion that they are uneducated. Did they not play enough Halo hours to meet your requirements? But, your in luck. The game industry has weathered these storms before, and they will again in the future. Calm down, youll still be able to play whatever games appeal to you in the future, regardless of whether its like Nintendogs or Grand Theft Auto. No need to get your panties in a bunch over this issue. Period.

Okay, everyone, I think it's time to calm down and not jump on each other's throats. Yes, I am looking at everyone. Of course, you might have been calm while writing your posts, but they didn't come across that way. Jack Thompson could argue "See this section. They're all on the edge of killing each other. Videogames are evil!" and he'd stand on pretty firm ground.

Anyways, calling videogames the devil is plain idiotic. I think there are better ways to kill time, but each to his own. But both sides' claims are flawed, be it even only a little. Videogames do make you more agressive, but it's far from a point where you let your surroundings feel it. They're not made by Satan and/or his little wizards.

However I can agree with the people in the trailer to the extent that I think schoolshootings and spree killings are bad and effort should be made to prevent them. But videogames are not the disease, they're a symptom at best. I generally think both sides in this argument should simmer down a bit and actually sit on one table. If Jack Thompson weren't a raging lunatic and gamers weren't mostly a bunch of raging, cellar-dwelling loners, then I bet Jack Thompson would be up for a round of Mario Kart. The gamers could teach him, since I doubt he knows how it works. And when that happens, both sides could actually talk about stuff without starting to rage around and stereotype and make idiotic claims (yes, both sides do that).

See...just...uncalled for. Completely. Where do I come off as a raving lunatic? There is a reason for our community to be angry about this. We're not overreacting. And it has nothing to do with how much time you spend playing games, it has to do with actually knowing what you're talking about. Take Jack Thompson and his stance over Bully, a game he tried to get canceled. He was calling it a Columbine simulator. He had never even seen a screen from the game. I mean uneducated in that sense, not whatever the hell you're talking about.

And really, where do you get off telling me what I should and shouldn't get upset about?

Being upset and being rude and ranting around are two different things. If both sides, yes, Jack Thompson, I'm talking to you, would even show the slightest will to discuss this in an orderly fashion without constantly insulting and/or suing someone or something, this discussion would be much nicer. I'm not telling you to not get upset, but people are more likely to listen when they don't have the feeling they're talking to a pitbull on steroids.

You come off as a raving lunatic here: "See...this is just idiotic bullsh*t" and here, "My point is this, if you don't know anything about games, you have no right to an opinion on this matter, because you have no f*cking clue what you're talking about. Period." Your community is full of whiners that get so bent out of shape. How many times have video games been portrayed to be the source of society's ills before? And despite that, they are still here and dont appear to be going away, regardless of what some religious talking mouth says. Yet, here you go getting so upset because its happening again. Sometimes i forget that mental midgets dont make connections, so i'll lay it out for you. Politicians/religious figures have certain "wells" they continually draw from. These "wells" are how they keep their base of power in support of them. A "well" could be an issue such as immigrations, taxes, or even video games. Its hard not to be rude when youve got people ranting and raving like the lunatics they so detest.

Where do you get off telling Jack Thompson what he should and shouldnt get upset about? You and him probably have more in common than you think and would make good friends. You could play a game to see who comes up with the fastest knee jerk response to various topics.

You might want to get off this board now.

Also, do you even know who Jack Thompson is?

Jack Thompson is Bizarro-Peanut. :D

But, Uncle, please don't do that. Don't insult people like that, because you know what's going to happen.

But what I must say, I see certain similarities between the gamers' way of argumenting and those you refer to as "religious extremists". Both groups consist of raging lunatics with anger issues. I mean, good ol' Jack is his own antithesis in this way. "Videogames make people agressive... I'M GOING TO SUE YOU, PUNK!!! WWWAAAAGH!!!" It's also funny to see the gamers react. "Man this Jack Thompson's such a lunatic... THEY'RE ALL IDIOTS AND THEY SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THIS EARTH!!! WAAAAARGGH!!!"

I don't think anyone dislikes Thompson for hating video games. It's him publicly insulting and making blind assumptions about an entire community that has most people ticked off.

This isn't rocket science here.