What if all we had was FF?
 

I'm interested to know what you guys and gals think. If the current 4kids turtles series had been animated in the FF style, would there still be so much dislike for Fast Forward? Or vice versa. If FF had been animated the way the first 5 seasons were, would there be as many haters out there? I mean if the stories had been similar but the style for the first 5 seasons had been the same as FF.

I've read many gripes on the drawing style and many others about the tone change. There was a definate tone change but I wonder if it would have been such a big deal had the animation been the same.

Personally, I don't mind FF. It definately isn't my favorite but it's... ok. I feel that we fans wouldn't be so divided on the matter had the animation been the same.

I don't mind FF either. I would have liked it very much if it had been animated in the 2k3 style. The angular simplistic FF animation looks cheap- as if they were trying to rush things and cut corners.

However, I think most of the dislike for FF has to do with the plot, concept, and characters. Although none of those particularly bother me either to be honest.

I'd bet if the style was that same 90% of the hate would go away and people would probably like the jokes and such.

I could see people thinking the wrestling episode is "cute" but since it's done in that style they won't accept it.

People ate up that awful "Father's And Sons" episode and it's the worst episode of the series in my opinion.

I just love the animation and darker style of 2k3 and I can say without a doubt the style of FF threw me. I wondered why would they digress to such a simple style when they had this amazing, shadowy, detailed series.
I would have warmed up to FF either right away or at least much faster if they hadn't changed styles so drastically. (plus "it's ninja time" did help :lol: )

Either way I am just happy we have gotten any of it to be honest. FF did grow on me but I when I go back and look at the 2k3 animation it is just so awesome.

Without it FF style and all would have still been pretty darn impressive too considering the last time we had TMNT on tv was the late 90s

Co-signed.

FF's Art style may not be that great but the episodes really have grown on me and I have to say I'm sad to see it not get the full run it was going to get especially since things where getting better. :(

Hmm...This is a good question.

I didn't mind Fast Forward too much. I bought the DVDs and all. It's just not as good as the original 2k3 episodes. Even the bits of humor that was more in tone with 2k3 was funny and got a few chuckles out of me.

My main gripes with Fast Forward are as follow:

1. The art style
2. The generally lighter atmosphere
3. The overuse of hijinx
4. Cody being a total Mary Sue :dead:
5. The way Splinter would act totally out of character sometimes.

So, I’m guessing if you fixed any one of those, the show would theoretically be better. But I don’t know if art style alone would bring over too many people. I think the majority of people are just turned off by the concept alone.

Apparently, people's appreciation level for 2k3 did take a downward slope as a resultof the FF animation style, had the animation always been such though, the amount of appreciation for the show may not have taken a down slope, but it might've started at a lower level than it did when 2k3 began. I'm ok with FF, however, if the FF animation was as neat as it was before, I might appreciate it just a bit more. Cody could've been a bit better too, but I'll tell you, compared to all those dumb, dimwitted "Mary Sues" I've seen on Nickelodeon, Disney channel, and other places, Cody's a joy.

Seems to be the general consensus that if the current series had been the same style as FF, there wouldn't be so many gripes. It does make sense though, it's hard to take a step down and still appreciate it.

The art style was never the biggest problem for FF. I was never a big fan of it, but I was never terribly bothered by it either. I was really more bothered by the fact that it was part of the push to change the tone of series.

It wouldnt have made a difference, FF does not have the charm and humour of the original (which might have sustained it had it been the case), even if the animation was different, the general direction would still have been the same.

Deep down even FF's defendants probably don't want to deal with it anymore, whenever it "shaped up" or not, whenever it deserves to be respected and liked or not, when it ends, nobody, nobody, will honestly miss it. It made no real significant impact for the series timeline beyond closure for Baxter. So why hang over it?

thanks for pretty much calling me a nobody when I just stated above that I just stated above I'd sad to see it not get the full run. :P
Oh wait unless you ment you when you where speaking for everyone....
It's not just Fast Forward though I hate Next Muation for the most part and hell I wish we could have got the second season of tha also I'd pretty much say it for any incarnation of the turtles if I knew there where going to be more episodes and toys but never saw the light of day past proto types.

Agreed on all points. The art style is my main gripe, but even if Fast Forward was done in the 2k3 style of animation, my views would still be the same.

Also, can I just point out again that if Fast Forward had taken on board the same dark tone of the 2k3 series,things would be different? I mean...I would have tried many more times than I have now to accept it, for one. I'm sure it's not just limited to me... *stops herself from going into a rant*

Neutrino- I think you may mean "FF being in the same style as the current series". If 2k3 had been drawn as angularly as FF, I would have major gripes about the art and animation. But my only criticism about the 2k3 art is that the Turtles eyes do not show pupils.

I think a major problem with FF is just that it is so inconsequential. After you've seen the long story-arcs and character development from 2k3 you find that when you're suddenly thrust into the future it's very jarring. Because in the back of your mind you know that eventually they'll just go back home and that's it.

That's my view at least.

I'll be honest and say if all we had was FF?

I'd still hate it. I don't even much care about the animation (though knowing how much better it could be was a major turn off).

I hate Cody. I hate the silliness. I don't like it's similarities to the OT. I don't like how kiddish it is. The stories aren't interesting or entertaining.

I probably would have watched it less than I did. I was just trying to give it a chance because of the 2K3 series.

I might have liked it if it were all we had. I mean the major thing for me was how much of a down-grade it was from the 2k3 show.... geesh, now you got me thinkin about a world with no 2k3 TMNT :dead:

everything is a downgrade...2k3 is a downgrade of the comics...and so on and so forth.

Meh, I like 2k3 better than the comics. To each his own.

Either way. If the styles of the first 5 seasons had been the same as FF, would as many people have noticed and disliked the tone change?
I would have to agree. However, if FF had been the end of the current series for good, I then may have missed watching the turtles adventures. Thankfully we get another season in 08 so knowing that, I'm not sad to see FF go.

I don't even know how that works... What were the Dreamwave comics, a slight upgrade?

It's just an alternate version.

Yes, it's just plain silly.

Nobody? Speak for yourself I was just starting to enjoy the show.

And you guys claim you'd still dislike it. I find that highly unlikely. You dislike it now because you saw something better first simple as that.

Why because you don't have to read?
Oh well I stand up for the turtles because I like the turtles I don't care what damn incarnation they are.
God I'm so sick and tired of everyone bickering over it all
No The Dreamwave comic is nothing it lasted what 4 or 5 issues and each one was a copy from an episode of the show which was a half @ssed atempt at copying the orignal comics in the first place.
So No I'd say Dreamwave was a downgrade.

You can't say that and then call another version a downgrade. It's just different strokes for different folks.

Yes you can, because the DW series was complete garbage, The turtles aren't even in the first 2 issues. The stories were terrible, and the only originial issues they had centered around some gangster kid who sweeps April's store's gang.

The only saving grace in that piece of crap series was the artwork. Which left alot to be desired since you didn't get many panels of the turtles. Which I buy f'ng turtles comics to see the turtles.

As for 2K3 being better then the comics. I can't use words to describe how insane you'd have to be to think that. Seriously if you can't see how the comics are better your blind or, as Putrescent said, to lazy to read.

Really now? it came after the other the mirage comics came first it's better it's not as waterd down as 2k3 is and then the did the dw series it was pretty much about human characters not even about the turtles for the most part which the series is about teenage mutant ninja turtles not some african american characters because the artist had some sort of goal he wanted to acomplish by making the comics into that for whatever reason.
Mirage orignal gooood all things are based off of this.
2k3 series decent waterd down for kids which makes it a downgrade.
DW boring human stories that last for 4 issues even more of a downgrade compaired to mirage and 2k3 combined.
If it was an upgrade in my mind I would say it was we're never going to get anything better than the Mirage comics in another comic book or tv series because the tv show will always be looked at as a childrens property and Mirage is the start that all things orignate and are based from.
I'm starting to believe people haven't even looked at the orignal MIRAGE comics let alone read them to have anything to base their fact they're saying.
I've got all this stuff cause I'm a Ninja Turtles nut it was and still is a huge part of my life.
I don't say things unless it's true shesh.
Each universe has things that suck in thme I wont denie that but just as there are bad things theres just as many good in each universe except say DW the series didn't even last long enough to go anywhere that's a poor choice to use.
Hell the Archie Comics started out the same way and took the comics in a much better direction than the old toon ever went.
Had the DW series done that I'd gladly admit it but like Spitfire says those issues are flat out crap.

I prefer the 2k3 toon to Mirage. I am a librarian who reads voraciously, speaks 4 languages, and uses big words on a regular basis. So not liking reading or not being able to read well is a moot point. I just like 2k3 better because it is coherent, cohesive, consistent, has awesome adaptations and original plots, kept good elements from the 1987 toon, and focuses on Leonardo.

And if FF were the very end...well, at least we got 6 kickarse Turtle seasons that I can watch over and over again. However, I am glad we are getting more Turtles. I hope the next season is as GOOD as the preceding ones.

What We Are Talking About Mis Scandia Is Take The Issues Of Each Mirage Comic Book That Each Episode Is Based Upon And Compare Them To Each Other Side By Side You Will Then See Which One Is Superior.
Oh Btw I wasn't making fun of him by saying that just so everyone knows it was a question since out of the blue and it's new to be and shocking that people don't like comic books because they don't like reading and just like sitting infront of the tv and watching something animated and not having to use their imaginations. I think we've discoverd why the comic book market isn't doing so hot.:ohwell:
It's funny I watch my Fast Forward episode and the lost season more than anything else because they are brand new storys I've grown tired of cheap adaptions of comic storys.
And Hell I'm happy We're getting more turtles also just so everyone can complain about it all over again for another entire season. I'm just so happy I could explode.:P

Awesome adaptations? For one the old comics made plenty of sense, with the exception of the Mark Martin issues.

There is nothing old toon like about 2K3. And the #1 reason for that is Laird's disposition against it. And in his defense I can see why he dislikes it, they took his totally violent adult comic book and turned it into a kids show. I mean yeah I like the old toon don't get me wrong but if that was my creation being turned into that I would be pretty pissed to.

What isn't coherent about the comics? Or consistent? It follows the life of the turtles as it happens. It's one huge story arc.

I won't argue that there's awesome originial episodes, to be honest that's the #1 thing I like about 2K3. The comic episodes just piss me off because they fall short. I'Monster is still an exception but it plays out differently and I like it for different reasons then the comic version.

Or how about for the simple Fact that if that there was no Mirage Comics to base these episodes off of there WOULDN'T BE ANY EPISODES IN THIS NEW SERIES.
Something to think about here folks.:) ;)

No, I can't really explain it. The main thing is characterization, it took a while for Vol. 1 to start giving the turtles more personality, they seemed so "general" in the first few issues.

Okay. You've stated your reasons for not liking the 2003 show but just because it's apparently watered down that doesn't make it all bad. I don't view the 2k3 show as a downgrade.

Okay, it's not as adult as the comics, and I do love the comics for more reasons than just that, but the show at least has consistency. Vol 1. became more of an anthology series with a lack of big story arcs, or twists and turns while Vol 2. and 3. got cancelled during their run.

The comics give us the original TMNT in dazzling form and some really brilliant stories by some fantastic writers and artists (Laird and Eastman especially) with no holds barred on violence. If that's what floats your boat, that's fine. I love the comics for those reasons as well.

But the new toon has given us a completely different universe and has done fantastic things considering it is a saturday morning cartoon. The plotting has been outstanding and included some wonderful story arcs and well-observed character moments. The original concept has been taken to a whole other level given the creative team's commitment and direction, as well as imagination.

I couldn't say I prefer one over the other but I love both for different reasons and that's something to perhaps consider.

I won't argue with that but in the first few issues it was intended to be nothing more then a joke. They all acted the same because they had no idea they were really going to go anywhere with the series.

The fact the cartoon establishes this faster is solely due to them knowing where it was going in the first place.

In the NT the Turtles like pizza (especially Mikey), wear multicolored bandannas, and say Cowabunga. Just like in the OT. Things that the OT started and every medium after that (Archie, movies, NT) has kept.

Um they say Cowabunga and love pizza in the comics as well. They make references to pizza as the food they eat all the time.

The multicolor bandannas were needed and the fact they decided to keep them in all the other mediums is due to the fact that they needed a way to distinguish the turtles so people don't get confused. In the comics they had a cleaver way of always having something in the panel to tell you which one is speaking, or even addressing the turtle. You'd think that would be easier in a TV series since there's dialog but then you'd have to have a turtle talk everytime for you to know which one is which if they didn't have their weapons.

If you notice they didn't keep their letter belts however.

No, you see them eating pizza a few times through out the series, but all teenagers eat pizza. The bandana thing is established and here to stay, it's not really taking a page out of the OT's book. And Mikey's few cowabunga's are just homages (Idk about Raph's in the wrestling episode tho :ohwell: )

Right. And I see where your coming from with the whole adaption thing, but with me, I saw the episodes before I started reading the comics (I'm guessing it's opposite with you) except for issue 1. I did however read every synopsis of the Vol. 1 issues, so whenever I recognized an adaption, I though "cool" instead of "wtf are they doing?"

Actually, no, I really still wouldn't like it. It's silly and kiddish, both things I fairly much loathe. And there's Cody. I despise him. No real plot or important storylines.

See You've got me Wrong I do love 2k3 I love everything about ninja turtles I've stated this tuns of times I even like some episodes of the next mutation.
Jo Did you even really watch the show be honest? because the entire season of FF had 4 story lines going on if not more.
And Cody isn't even in every single episode especially on the latest dvd that came out.
Also what's the point of watching a childrens show then saying it's silly and childish?
You Know as much as anyone else the turtles won't ever be looked at beyong a kids show on tv and it's because of the 80's cartoon.
See thats the thing we're not going wtf are they doing it's just that we're saying if you lay the episode out next to the comic it's just not as good.
It's not that the episodes are bad I think you guys are really missunderstanding what we're saying here.
I really can't wait for all the new negative reasons people will come up with to hate the next version of turtles that will be on tv though.

My issue is that FF wouldn't feel like the TMNT to me. You can stick anyone in the future. They could be people just as easily. They aren't special if everything is a mutant or an alien.

That was my problem with the new TMNT movie, too. It could really have been anybody in that plot.