Volume 4 News!!
 

Thought you all might like to read this. It's from the TMNT mailing list newsletter. Could be intresting...

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Howdy folks,

Some news regarding the TMNT Volume Four comic book series directly from Peter Laird:

Welcome back to TMNT Volume 4!

Well, not quite yet... but soon. Volume 4 is going to return this year, but in a slightly different form -- or forms, to be more precise. There will be an inexpensive -- or possibly free -- online form, as well as a more expensive limited edition collectible printed version.
There are a few reasons for this new approach, mostly related to my work habits. For quite some time, before I took most of the last year off from doing the Vol. 4 comics, I had been getting more and more frustrated by what was required of me, with every issue, to meet the requirements of Diamond Comics, the major comics distributor. This included preparing solicitation material three months in advance for the "Diamond Previews" catalog, along with ads and such. For whatever reason, preparing these materials on this schedule, along with actually getting the book ready to go to the printer by a set deadline, was just really starting to get to me. (Don't get me wrong -- Diamond's system is a fine, reasonable, businesslike approach to distributing comics, and works very well. I just can't deal with it anymore.)
I was also getting frustrated with the time lag between finishing the book and actually seeing it appear before the eyes of the fans, on comic store shelves. It would very often be up to four or five weeks from the time we sent the materials to our printer. Again, not uncommon and completely reasonable -- it takes time to print, bind, trim and ship a comic book.
So, while I was on hiatus, I started thinking about it, and came up with a new scheme. It may turn out to be harebrained, or it might be really good... or maybe just okay. We'll see.
Here's the plan:

1.) Digital Distribution: Each issue will be posted online at the ninjaturtles.com official TMNT website, within a few days (or maybe even hours) of being completed. Access to each issue will very likely be free to anyone with an internet connection and a decent browser, though I am looking into possibly charging a small fee... haven't figured that one out quite yet.
In addition, if feasible technically, I may try something new for TMNT -- a somewhat interactive online letters page. I'm not completely sure how or even if this will work, but I'm mulling it over.

2.) Limited-Edition Printed Distribution: Each issue will also be printed in a "collectible" limited edition, very likely somewhere between 1000 and 3000 copies. These will be available via mail order from Mirage, and will probably cost $10.00 each, shipping included. The first hundred books ordered per issue will have an original black and white TMNT head sketch drawn and signed by me on the inside front or back cover.
These print versions will almost certainly not appear at the same time that the online version is posted, but probably several weeks later.

I'm hoping that these changes will work, and will allow me to continue doing Volume 4 with the same sense of fun which has sustained the book from its inception in 2001 up until the beginning of my hiatus in June of 2006. I think it's worth a shot... and I hope you do too!

-- Peter Laird

Ten dollars an issue? (**()&.

HOpefully he'll also put them into collected editions, so I can get them for an affordable price. I'd prefer not to do the read online thing, honestly.

$10 seems steep. If its a CBR File that would be cool... But any #4 news is good in my book!

I find reading comics online to be incredibly annoying. And like most people, I prefer owning comics in a tangible form that I can "keep" and store.

I'm not sure how I feel about this, as I hope they just release Volume 4 collected books then instead of individual issues.

sheesh $10 a pop is going to start hurting...but I'd rather have it like this than not at all...

I wonder how long till this actually comes to fruitition...?

I'm happy at the news.

Free (or very low cost) online volume 4 is far better than no volume 4 at all.

As for $10 I think it's a fair price. The book was making a loss every issue and Peter was doing it just for the fans. With such a limited print run that $10 is probably just covering costs, and those that don't want to pay it can read the free online version.

I know it's not ideal as I (like most) would prefer to have the whole set in print (and at this time I'm planning to get them, though it will be the most expensive on-going comic I've ever bought and living in the UK I'll probably have to pay extra postage on top). But if it's this or nothing I'd say it's a very good deal, especially since he will likely make little (if any) profit from this and it is just for the fans.

Apart from returning of Vol4 being awesome... It is said that each book is $10 shipping included. I hope it is that way for Europe, too, or at least just some low shipping price.

Also it would be great if the comics were sold from PaneltoPanel, too. Getting from Mirage as someone living out of US. That's really difficult cause of their hate and grim looks upon online orders or online paying methods.

It really changes nothing -- virtually no comic stores were carrying any TMNT comics toward the end of Vol. 4 anyway.

The way I see it, this is nothing but positive news for Volume 4 (though $10.00 seems a little high, but the niche market the TMNT comics seem to be catering to are probably willing to shell out a little more cash for the comics... no pun intended).

I think what Pete's proposing is interesting in that I've been hearing a lot of rumblings about comic companies looking for new means of distribution, and it looks as though Mirage may start leading the way.

Digital comics, as everyone knows, is one of those hotly debated subjects at the moment, so I think if Mirage get this to work, then it's likely to become the model for other companies to base their own online distribution on.

Rose, I noticed you made the comment about it not really doing anything to expand the general readership - I think I may have to disagree to an extent. So many more people seem to be downloading comics illegally than actually going to a store and getting them (we even had people here on the boards admit to it), and I think if Pete ends up distributing them for free online, then it's going to do huge things for the readership. If Tales continues to run the way it always has, then the downloaders will likely take more notice of Tales and hopefully go in search of it physically. Ultimately too, though the pricing on the limited prints may seem steep, it would help cover whatever costs went into the production of it and go straight to the fans. In the end, there's really very little cost going into an online comic, outside of the actual physical work that's gone into it on the artist's behalf.

I'm pretty sure that, if promoted properly, this could be a big thing.

Either way, I'm just glad to see that Volume 4 is back up and running!

Agreed. If properly promoted and or reasonably priced, this could only be GOOD for the comic. That, and I don't have that much time too go too my supported comic book stores these days anyway, since TMNT is now the only title I pick up...

Never heard of illegal comic downloads though...

That's an excellent point. Many fans don't read the comics simply because they are hard to come by. It would be great if the following picked up due to this new availability.

This method might be easier than actually printing lots of comic books. But if the comic will be online and if there will be just a small fee, then ppl will again download it from some p2p sharing programs. Thinking that if my comic will be a digital one, why should i pay for it. At the end i will read it thru screen.
Tho ofc real tmnt fans will pay cause,, you now they will feel much better that way.
Downloading comics is another thing.. but tbh i really do not like digital comics and i can never get used to them. I would be much more happy if vol.4 was to go on the regular old school way.

As i said if PaneltoPanel sells those limited edition issues too then i will get every one of them eagerly, but if only Mirage sells as told in the interview, not very good news...

whatever...
conclusion...welcome back Vol.4... I have missed you very much

Does this mean that we'll be getting more freelancers working on Tales? Wasn't there some sort of discussion that mentioned that because Volume 4 was indefinite, the Mirage crew would have first dibs on the Tales stories? I really want to see some of the freelancer stories tied up or continued!

Still, I'm very happy that Pete's back on things!

My point concerning readership is that distributing online isn't going to bring in a new reader who might otherwise not look twice at a TMNT comic book. You're only going to reach already existing fans who are looking for TMNT. This proposed method doesn't allow for browsing on a shelf of diverse titles. I'm not concerned about any of us reading this message board getting any of the comics, I'm concerned about those who are just discovering comics in general never discovering TMNT.

That said, I do think this method works fine for what Peter wants to do, as he can publish irregularly and it really won't be that big of a deal.

I think the TMNT as a whole would be better served if there was a monthly title with a continuing storyline that was on the shelf to be found by anyone.

All of which I said in my comment that you are referring to.

Sorry Rose, I realise that, but what I meant was that with a lot of comic readers being the online "pirates", I think that IF promoted properly, it will probably have a better chance of luring in new readers than actually putting it on shelves. There are already a huge number of instances where comic shops don't carry TMNT because they either don't know about it, or they don't think it sells.

All that really needs to be done is a bit of well placed word spreading, and some promo stuff over at Newsarama, CBR and the other major news feeds.

And what was mentioned about the downloading fee, I think ultimately the fee thing might not work out, as was mentioned, because someone will pay the fee, download it, then put it illegally up on a p2p network. Still, it's early days, and there's only one way you can find these things out.

I was trying to refrain from snide comments, but the problem with sales and lack of stores carrying the book could easily be fixed if the quality increased 10-fold. I'm going to give Peter the benefit of the doubt until I see one of these new books, but as it was that majority of TMNT fans I know stopped buying the comic long ago or were only buying it to keep their collections complete. When you've lost your already existing fans, you're not going to have a successful book. If a quality product is delivered, there's no reason a TMNT book can't be successful.

Either way, I think Tales will still be hitting the shelves like clockwork, so that will still be there, and hopefully people keep picking it up. It was cool seeing the sales figures on my own issue, so hopefully things pick up a bit more with the seemingly renewed interest in TMNT, and with the anniversary approaching.

I'm not sure the quality of the comics is that big a factor in the stores not carrying TMNT. The thing that was surprising to me most was how few BIG newsfeeds were even aware that there was a Turtles comic running! Tales or otherwise! When I was doing the solicitations and promo's just before the editorial change-over (something I've gotta get back onto now actually) it was astonishing how many of the writers at Newsarama, the EIC at CBR, Comicnewsinternation, comic-con.com, comicbookresources.com, none of them even realised! Heck, even IGN's comics section and Crave online's comic section didn't know! Most people, even in the industry, have the original toon still heavy in their memory, and when you say 'comics' a lot immediately think "Archie".

All that needs to happen is a little more aggressive PR and I genuinely think Mirage's comics would find the sales they deserve. I also think NECA's new Mirage line of figures is going to help bolster the profile of the original TMNT comics.

I like this idea. There's no comic book store in my area (the closest one is like an hour away) and the only way for me to get comics is online. The only book store in town (Barnes & Noble) does carry TPB's but Mirage doesn't distribute their TPB's to B&N for some reason (thank the gods for Panel to Panel).

It almost sounds like the $10 cost is for a TPB.

Thing is, when Vol. 4 originally launched there WAS hype and excitement. So much so that the first two issues completely sold out and Mirage actually reprinted them. But as the book progressed, sales declined and suddenly we were reading in the letters page about how the book wasn't making any profit. That didn't happen by accident. This relaunch will no doubt drum up some hype, but long-term success isn't going to happen unless there's a quality product being delivered.

Tales is a good book, but when the creative team changes on each issue and subsequently the quality waxes and wanes (although the quality outlook is very positive ATM), it's hard for any but the largest comic shops to commit to the title. I know fans with limited budgets who find it hard to commit to the title, but they can only commit to all or none of it. They get stuck buying an issue even if it doesn't interest them at all.

I agree that Mirage needs to put more effort into publicity, but publicity can only do so much.

I still think the coolest thing I heard was something fan wrote in, telling me that their store actually started carrying TMNT because of Tales #36. That blew me away. Probably had more to do with Paul's art though :lol:

Though I still can't get over the retailer outlook on the TMNT comics :ohwell:

I think that actually proves my point about what can happen when a quality product is delivered. :)

Yeah exactly, good quality equals good sales more often than not, that issue was fantastic, and it was both the story and art that did it.
I wouldn't mind paying $10 for an issue if it was of substantial quality, but I'm at a stage now where I'm only buying TMNT if both art and story are good.
I bought the first issue of Raphael BMR, but the story and art just don't appeal to me, it should be renamed Bad Art Rising.

I don't know if I speak for many fans, but I'm a bit tired of 1 dimensional monsters and weird creatures in TMNT stories, for example Raphael BMR, I'd love to see some more gritty tales featuring cops, gangsters and Ninja's.

You're too modest.

I'll say that this direction for Vol. 4 is probably the most equitable for all parties involved (Mirage as a publisher, Laird as an author, the niche market that has supported it, and the almost unanimous number of comic stores that had long since dropped it from their shelves). As it was, and I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way, shape or form, it was really only ever going to appeal to old school Turtle fans that were/are willing to go on whatever ride Mr. Laird decides to take us on, no matter the quality of art and how many tangling plot threads are left tangling... you won't find anyone going, "I was introduced to TMNT by Volume 4 and here I am." And this is OK, I think -- Laird has never maintained he expected Vol. 4 to set the Diamond Distribution charts on fire.

Barring a fresh start, though, "Tales of the TMNT" as it is right now should really be the introductory sort of "Gateway Drug" into the comic book world of TMNT -- for better or worse, it needs to be on comic stands each month (more or less) next to the likes of Batman, X-Men, Spider-Man, Justice League of America with consistently solid art and captivating stories if there's to be any hope of a TMNT comic ever regaining its former heights.

I guess I'm saying, if Tales follows Vol. 4 into "online only" territory and there's nothing to take its place... the towel might as well be thrown in on the whole thing. Though I could be very wrong.

On one hand, I can read them online during downtime at work.

On the other hand, comics are better to read when I'm having lunch/dinner out.

Yeah well that should tell you something right there.
If people remember those things so much they should push them into the dark of past forgotten TMNT things like it's some unwanted child.
I know Peter hates the fact that people remember those things more so than his own work but he has to remember that these other things are what kept Mirage going and is the same things that keep the checks rolling in.
You shouldn't be ashamed of your past at all I hope at some point he will be able to get over this and realize that was it did wasn't something bad but brought him tuns of fans and new readers to his comics as they grew older they went out and searched comic shops and found the Mirage comics either by their own, an uncle or heck even the comic shop owner themselves.
I also really don't think people downloading comics online is a huge deal as you'e making it Tristian I've only ever seen it brought up twice.
And no one's downloading comic books of the turtles for free at this point it's sad to say this and I don't want to sound like an ass but it's like the bands that complained when people where downloading music for free without them making a cent and no one was even downloading those bands music.
And I really do think we need a new comic along the lines of the Archie comics but I say we already have it with the new Tales of TMNT series.
To me Tales is the book that needs the pushing and promoting because it sells out allot of the time.
Also Many people don't really think it's a factor but ART is a huge factor in comic books and I'm sorry to say but tuns of people think Jim Lawsons recent art just doesnt cut it with todays comic world.
I honestly don't care at this point I got over Lawsons art and was getting into Peters story at this point I'd just like him to finish it.

I could see him being not too fond of the Fred Wolf cartoon and such. The whole thing was kind of a double-edged sword, wasn't it (I'd stop just short of calling it a deal with the Devil, but that's just me)? On the one hand TMNT became a super-franchise and loaded their pockets with cash, on the other... it drifted pretty effing far away from the world/vision of Eastman & Laird's comics and took the general public perception of it along for the ride. Some of the editorial-type pages of Mirage's Vol. 1 from Eastman/Laird kind of illuminated their perspective on this as the TMNT cartoon/action figures/TMNT underwear stuff began to flourish while they continued to do their thing in the B&W comics.

That in the 2000s Laird was able to make a new cartoon that is kind of an reasonable enough compromise between the jovial/light-heartedness/off-the-walledness of the original cartoon and the early Mirage comics I'm sure he's very happy about accomplishing, but I think if he had to choose, he ain't gonna do no favors to the Fred Wolf cartoon and I don't know that I blame him (creatively, that is... monetarily, there'll always be money to be made off of original cartoon cult fans, be it in T-shirts or new figures or what-have-you).

I know Murphy said there will be t-shirts of Krang and the gang soon....but I think theres allot more to be said about a moderized line of highly detailed figures based on the old toon I mean sure I'm excited as hell about the Mirage figures finally being made and will buy all of them but I have to say more people would buy figures of the cartoon characters if they looked exactly like they did on the show say around 1992ish.
I'm not blaming him for having issues with it I just think it's unhealthy to have such issues about your past when it brings and brought so many people joy over the years and introduced tuns of people to the turtles no matter what version they like it really doesn't matter to me the TMNT are the TMNT no matter what version shape or form they come in as long as they've got the same names and story.

You'd be surprised Putre. After checking out the sales figures, and then checking out the number of completed downloads of a torrent of just tales #36, if the number of people who downloaded the issue went out and bought the issue as well (I'm not saying they all didn't), I would've had a sell out issue, which would've been awesome. And the difference between the downloading of comics illegally over music is that the comic industry as a whole has been dying slowly. Fewer and fewer people are buying comics these days, and compared to the music industry, the comic book industry is like a flea. Sure you have Marvel and DC, but when you compare sales over the years, you see the decline. Downloading comics doesn't hurt the artists so much, it hurts the industry as a whole more than anything else. I personally have no problem with online comics, personally I rather have the actual book, but if people are reading my work, who am I to complain? But when you get scanners distributing it, you get people with the mentality of "well, I've read it and it's on my computer, why spend the money on it?". I've seen it come up on other boards moreso than this one -and you're right, it's only come up here a couple of times- but it does come up. I think downloadable comics is definitely the way of the future, but there needs to be a way for it to be done that won't hurt those putting their comics out there, and I think what Pete is proposing is something of a big deal, simply because it could very well pave the path for others looking to do the same.

The main thing here is, Pete's got his comic game back on, and he's got some pretty interesting ideas about how he's going to do it. He's also taking care of his fans by releasing the limited standard format books. I think the whole thing will be very interesting to watch from an industry point of view, but as a fan of volume 4, I'm just stoked to see it return!

Well I'm not a fan of the art like I said but I started to enjoy Peters story so I'm happy he will be moving forward with it.
But just like the whole Mirage old toon thing I really think this internet comic book thing is a double edged sword.
You're saying now people are downloading comics so whats stoping them if peter puts them online and one of us downloads it and then sends it to all the other turtle fans.
Also on the subject of comic stores not doing well...don't you think this isn't going to help much either if some one can just simply download something.
I mean hell I'm not going to be I'll wait till it's printed I own every other comic of the turtles in paper format even small spots they had in other comics and I'd not like to stop now so I'm happy he will be printing them.
But I have to agree $10.00 is a bit much for one issue unless they are going to be large or collected. Even Murphy thinks it's a bit much.
I've gotta agree with Rose though I don't think this is going to draw in any new fans at all.
I see tuns of stores from here in PA all the way to LA who still have copies of Vol.4 yet Tales usually more often than not sells out the day it comes in.
It should really tell you something about the standerd of comics, art and the people who read them these days.
Honeslty I know you're tooting your own horn allot about your issue but yeah I want more of that I wouldn't mind all the scifi every issue if the art and story telling was that good seriously. Tales for me is where it's at.
Oh and one last thing Tristsywisty could you please call me Cent or by the full user name I've asked everyone to please stop calling an abrivation that sounds close to a female sexual part lol k thanks.

There's nothing stopping it from happening at all. But if they're put online for free, and Pete sells the printed versions to those who are pretty much guaranteed to buy them (fans like you and me, and the other turtle fans around the world who buy the comics), then the printed versions will probably sell quite well indeed, even at that proposed price.
Mirage isn't going to lose money (or as much money) by putting it online and releasing it in quantities they're pretty sure will sell. It'd be better than releasing a set number and then having it warm shelves. At least then, if people reading it online decide they want the physical format, and the demand for product increases, they can raise the print runs and perhaps lower the price.
If the comics are available to download for free, then I'm sure you'll find that people are more likely to check them out because it's a simple matter of clicking a few buttons. The POTENTIAL readership is a hell of a lot bigger than hoping people will pick it up in a comic shop. As I've been saying, this will depend hugely on how well promoted it is. It could die in the arse and we'd essentially be no better off (outside of having volume 4 to read), but if promoted well enough, then the readership for BOTH books can only expand. I'm sure those people who dropped the book, or were planning on doing so are more likely to give it a second chance if they don't have to pay for it and can read it without even leaving work or their home.

The only reason I'm using my own comic as an example is because I have the numbers on hand, so it's an easy example for me ;) Tales of Raph would actually have done the same thing after checking that too though.

Well, this is certainly interesting. It very well might get more people to look at the TMNT comics. However, the physical distribution is still problematic. I don't see putting out physical copies significantly later and at 10$ a pop could possibly work out.

Now, if the online thing works out and generates new interest I think that people would definitely want to buy the real thing. But they're not going to buy it if it's a hassle to do so. Put them into collected books and get them properly distributed and they'll sell. And proper distribution would mean major bookstores as well. If they could manage to make that happen, this plan might just work.

But the major hurdle, I fear, is whether or not enough people will like volume 4 enough to buy it. I'm not sure it provides enough for those who aren't already hardcore turtles fans.

I guess how it comes down is... regardless of whether or not Mirage stands to sell an equal or greater number of "copies" (whether virtual or the later physical "collector's" copies), Mirage stands to lose practically no money on Vol. 4 anymore.

Well if they're going to print 1000-3000 copies of the physical book anyways, you bet they're going to lose money. Murphy says the book was selling 3,500 copies before the hiatus (although that actual seems high... because my understanding is that you break even at 3,000 copies). If that's how many they sell at $3.25, there's no way they'll sell anything close to that at $10/each. IMO they'll be lucky to sell 500 copies of each.

I guess that's why the download or online viewing will be beneficial. If the fans that lost faith in the book back in the day like what they see they can order it. As Tristan said, if there's a guaranteed fanbase buying it, even in small numbers from all over the world, it's not going to lose anywhere near the amount of money it may have when it was running at a set print number. And this way it will be there at Mirage and not sitting on comic shop shelves putting retailers off. I like what's happening, although I think based on the response I often see online with TMNT, it might be better going straight into Trade Paperback form and distributing it that way with colelcted versions of Vol.1, 2 and especially 4.

You might be right on that estimate. But if they decide to bank on the online pay-per-views, the "collector's copies" could be printed on demand... say, a run of 250 per printing to suit demand. I actually have no idea what would be most feasible.

I'd be curious to know exactly how many copies of Vol. 4 (or Tales now, for that matter) were actually printed per issue to get a better idea/scale of the sales vs. cost associated.

But from scanning over the actual sales of the issues, I've compiled some hard numbers here (only spent about 15 minutes on this to grab these to give a rough idea) :

Tales 1 - 1600
Tales 2 - 5800
Tales 3 - 5100
Tales 4 - 4400
Tales 5 - 4200
Tales 6 - 3900
Tales 7 - 1000

Tales 13 - 3200

Tales 18 - 2900
Tales 19 - 2900

Tales 30 - 2600
Tales 31 - 2600
Tales 32 - 2553
Tales 33 - 2835
Tales 34 - 3116
Tales 35 - 3050
Tales 36 - 3,375 (Tristan kicking ass and taking names)

TMNT 14 - 5500
TMNT 15 - 5900
TMNT 16 - 5300
TMNT 25 - 3400

For anyone willing to take the time to grab the other sales figures, go here:

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=695

Pretty easy to navigate.

Putting in a new post...

I still don't like this... stuff like this is what keeps the TMNT down, into obscurity. Like how would the casual turtle fan even know the comic has gone online now? Unless they treat TMNT like any other big-name comic, the turtles will always remain obscure.

Exactly. This is the heart of the point I've been trying to make.

Pretty true, but hopefully we're just talking about Volume 4 here (which even you yourself have said, Rose, isn't going to convert any TMNT non-believers either way).

The problem is really fundamental, and only worsened by the latest movie that reinforces the idea of TMNT as toddler fare in the public eye. Joe Q comic X-Men/Civil War/Infinite Crisis/World War Hulk buyer (which by most current 2007 demographics is about 20-35) that only knows about TMNT from previews and word of mouth or even some vague remembrance of Turtle Vans and Blimps isn't very likely to pick up a copy of the current TMNT comics unless an actual Mirage TMNT fan gives them a heart-to-heart about, "Hey, it's really not like that in the comics."

This is true. Unless Peter decides to completely revamp the Vol. 4 we currently know, nothing is going to change. And there's no hope to bring in new readers when they're going to be lost and confused from the start.

The problem is fundamental, but it has nothing to do with the movie and/or your personal opinion of it.