Splinter's use of punishments
 

I'm sort of stealing this from another thread from the general section about the use of spanking of children as a form of punishment and whether it is right or not. And some how the turtles got dragged into it. So I thought I'd bring it over here. Splinter is very much the authoritarian and he doesn't think twice about wacking the turtles when they step out of line, so he is definately old school. But when the turtles where just kids do you think he used corporal punishmnet on them, like whacking them in the head with his cane or do you think he spanked them instead when they got out of line, if he did spank them at what age do think he stopped spankings as punishment and switched over to uses his cane on their head? In the episode the Lesson he seemed much stricter and tough when dealing with the boys. D

Do you guys even agree that he still uses his cane to to hit them to punish them as teens.

He may used the cane as they got older, but I think as kids he might have just spanked them or hit their hand.

Somehow, I do not think Splinter is the kind of parent who would hit or punish harshly for the smallest transgression. He would use time outs and withdrawal of privileges. He is strict, but not unreasonably so. It's not like the Turtles walk around on eggshells afraid of him.

Which leads me to wonder- which Turtle would be likeliest to run away (or try to run away) because he thought a punishment was too harsh? I think it would be Donatello. He would be likely to think "fine, if you do not like me as I am, then you will have to deal without me". He may not even cry- he would just leave a note stating calmly that he has left.

I think this sort of reaction is something I would see coming from Raph first. When the Turtles first came out, he was already the one that would go out to the top side to get some fresh air when things got to hostel or he felt too pinned up. I'm assuming this is a trait he started long ago, and I wouldn't be surprised to see that he was the first to go topside alone out of the four either. The comics and cartoons never really touched on too much what their tyke years were like. If handled right, it could actually be a nice spin off of the current Turtles toon.

But I think Raphael would be likelier to storm off in anger. On the other hand, Donatello would appear to be calm- and a few hours later, a letter is left in his bedroom and his belongings are missing.

I've actually addressed this kinda stuff in my fan-fiction, and in the many RPs I participate in. But this is also from my own experiences... kinda...

The way I see it, Splinter would use more light punishments, time outs, corner time, chores, writing exercises and the ever popular backflip. I can imagine Leo and Don being the easier of the four to punish... it wouldn't take much to get their attention.

Now, where spankings (or in BAD cases, the cane), my guidelines for my stories is if they do the big sins: Lying, stealing when it's NOT important for survival, cheating, and finally Knowingly putting yourself in danger. That is what usually warrants a spanking. The cane would be for something like... well, when Leo disobeyed Splinter and dragged his brothers into the whole battle in "City at War". Something that puts the clan in danger.

I...probably sound like I've thought this stuff through to much.. :P


AS for which turtle tot would run away, I would think Mike would be the one to run away cuz 'Papa' doesn't love him anymore...

Well isn't that issue 'the passing' during their kiddy years? I think Splinter kept bopping Mikey and telling him to stop goofing around.

But again, I disagree. In your first statement, you were asking what Turtle would run away because he thought a punishment is too harsh, and his running away is kind of like he is throwing it into Splinter's face that if he cant accept him for the way he is, then he's leaving, this is a trait Raphael would do way before the others. Donny, Mikey and Leo would try to be a bit more suave and actually come up with ways around the punishment. It's Raph that takes his emotions and actions to extremes, such as flipping the finger and running off. The second Turtle I see pulling this stunt would be Mikey.

From what I know, I think that Mikey is the one who got the most spankings and punishments as a kid :P

reply revised....

Splinter is defeninately old school in his disipline methods and uses corporal punishment, but some how I don't see him useing spankings as a way to punish the turtles even as little itty biddie kids. If for no other reason than because the turtles really don't have much in the posterior area. Seriously I don't think the turtles have butts, that area is covered by their shell and plastron. It sort of looks like they have plastron panties on LOL :lol:

Perhaps Raphael may be the first one to scream out loud that he is running away. And Mikey would do so saying "you don't love me". But while Donnie may have a bit more tolerance, he would just march to his room and write out a note- he would leave quietly. Leo is more mature, so he is likelier to understand why Splinter is disciplining him. And Leo is more likely to want to talk things out.

I do think Mikey and Raph got equal amounts of punishments when they were young.

Now which kinds of punishments work best on each Turtle? I can imagine that for Donnie it would be withdrawal of privileges.

I don't see Donny misbehaving that often. Mikey would act out because he was bored and Raph would because he was frustrated and Leo might disobey if he thought his Honour demanded it. Donny would probably only be punished for getting carried away with what he was doing and forgetting his obligations.

Splinter seems to be a strict but fair father and teacher. There is obviously a mutual bond of love between him and the turtles and if he had to punish them they would probably accept it with good grace (some of the time). I don’t think splinter would actually hit the turtles (training not withstanding). He might give them a quick tap to make sure they’re paying attention but nothing with intent to harm. He mostly seems to give them chores or training to do and explains why what they did was wrong.

I doubt that splinter gave the turtles spankings when they where kids, i think he got stricter when they got older. As far as i remember, the only corporal punishment i've seen splinter use is throwing his stick on michaelangelo.

in TMNT1 I thought throwing a book at Mikey was pretty violent LOL

Like a said earlier I don't think Splinter employed spankings as a form of punishment/disipline on the turtles when they where younger, because for some reason I just don't see Splinter throwing one of the turtles over his lap and letting them have it in that manner. I think Splinter was more of a extra chores and heavy work outs and sever scoldings/intimidation sort of parent when it came to disipline. Maybe he wacked them on the head or the hand when warranted but I don't think he used his cane. But if Splinter did emply spankings I think he would only do the quick single swat on the butt when they got out of line.

If he did use spankings I think he stopped that form of punishment by the time the turtles where the age in the episode The Lesson, so maybe my age six/seven, because I think by that time the turtles would be old enough to feel embarrassed by a spanking and probably where at an age where getting their freedoms and priviledges taken away where more effective. I think the use of his cane to whack the turtles in the head is a fairly recent thing that probably developed when they hit puberty. Since by this point I think the turtles are old enough to handle it.

I have a question do you which turtle would most likely get made fun of if they got a spanking from Splinter?

To be honest...yes and no. :| I'm all for Splinter keeping the turtles in line, they could get killed if they get out of control so a quick whap in the head is possiably the best way of doing it; but sometimes...well I think he is to quick to go for the cane. it gets annoying after a while.

Good question. Are we talking as they are now or when they where kids? I think Splinter generally being confined to the lair and having their freedom restricted probably the worst punishment at this point. I also think being made to do something unpleasant or really hard probably does for the turtles at this point. But as kids I think being made to do really long tiring training sessions like how it was implyed they had to do when they disobeyed Splinter was the worst for them. Individually...I would have to think about.

That's what i'd bet on, they mentioned in The Lesson, Splinter made them work out for practicaly 72 hours, I'd say that's his most proficient, and in my opinion most sensible, form of discipline. And now when they're teens, I'd think that probably hasn't changed...individually speaking for each turtle, I think it'd work for any of them.

Raph would make fun of Mikey, and vice-versa. Donnie and Leo would be too busy minding their own business. Plus they are more mature and understand that they would not want to be made fun of themselves.

wow reading all these responces has made me realize that Splinter can be a bit violent sometimes :o LOL

I know and that form of punishment has worked so well on Mikey over the years hasn't it? :roll: I think Mikey from the time he was little got the most physical punishment out of the rest, and it still doesn't seem to have much effect on his behavior. You think Splinter would have figured that out by now and tried something else. :-?

I have a question do you think Splinters attitude toward the turtles change between family setting and training setting? Like do you think that Splinter is a stricter parent or teacher? Do you think Splinter is more likely to let some behavior slide in a family setting than he would in a training setting? Like do punishments and displine vary in severity and frequenty when Splinter is acting as teacher and when he is acting as father? Or do you think he doesn't seperate the two and punishs and disiplines the turtles in the same way when they need it no matter the setting?

I think he is relatively consistent. He may not be as quick to remind them to pay attention if they are not training or in a mission at the moment. But otherwise he is pretty much the same- it benefits the Turtles.

he could take a rod and strike the back of their legs just below the butt, that really hurts like a bitch.

I know right? But then Mikey kind of asks for it a lot so I guess it can't be helped. Also I think Splinter has probably used every disipline technique in the book on Mikey to no avail and probably is frustrated to the point where slapping him is the only way of reprimanding. Heck even total strangers like the Ancient One does that :P

I think Splinter plays two roles with the turtles (father and teacher/Master) and I think he keeps them seprete, and doesn't let the two over lap which I think is important to keep his relationship with the turtles healthy (and probably to keep himself sane) other wise I think the turtles wold not be able to relax around him and come to him when they have problems if he acted like a staunch ninja master who must be obeyed and accorded special respect. I think Splinter expects the same from the turtles. When they are acting in the dojo I think he expects them to act like disiplined ninjas. I think Splinter is more likely to punish more harshly while in "master/teacher" mode than as father mode, since if the turtles don't listen they could get killed, than when he is just acting as father. And I agree with Scandia that he seems pretty consistent with his punishments.

Y'all keep talking about how Mikey is always getting the discipline. But it seems to me that Raph gets into just as much trouble. Raph may not be the comic relief in the new toon- but he is just as much of a troublemaker as Mikey is.

true Raph seems to get in trouble as much as Mikey but I don't think Raph is actively a trouble maker, actually I think Raph is actually a peacful guy who gets aggitated easily by things going on around him and he reacts to it which gets him in trouble (notice how Raph can be perfectly calm and relaxed in the right enviroments). But I think over the years Splinter has realized this about Raph and lets it slide and instead of whacking he talks him through it and lets him go off some where to blow off some steam because he knows Raph can't help him self sometimes. The only time Raph gets it is when he is activly being reckless in w way that might endanger him self or his team mates. But over all I think Splinter accords the most patients with Raph because of his natural sencitivity, some people speculated that Don would be the most effected by physical disipline but I think it is Raph because he is already so on edge with his emotions that hitting him would only make it worse.

Mikey is a diffrent story unlike Raph, Mikey seems to to be a trouble maker and tries to actively rile the people around him and make others as aggitated as he is. And I think Mikey is an agitated person which is why he can't sit still and be calm unless some one tells him to. He likes trouble and he likes making people around him crazy (for what ever reason) I think Splinter reconises this and why he whacks Mikey and has less patients for him than for Raph. I don't think it's the best way to deal with him but i think Splinter gets just as annoyed with Mikey as his brothers do and reacts to it. Seriously i'm starting to wonder if Mikey likes the negative attention he gets from every one. :o

^What he/she said. I seem to see it as when Mikey seems to get into trouble on purpose. He bugs the living hell out of Raph, acts like he has a serious case of ADD. Raph's trouble making usually stems from him trying to do the right thing but it blows up in his face. Like his Nightwatcher persona (if you would like to incorporate the latest TMNT tale into these dicussions) he was doing it not to be trouble, but because he thought he was doing right.

I think in Mikey's case he is just a agitated person who gets attention any way he can and doesn't care if it's negetive or not so long as he gets some one to pay attention to him and look at him. :ohwell: Unfortunately I think that him doing this just makes his friends and family try to ignore him even more. :lol:

Not really I think he gets in trouble because he doesn't think before he does something and is too easily pissed off by little things. And in the movie I think it was more about sticking it to Leo than anything else ;)

but over all I think Splinter does a bang up job of raising the turtles. Splinter is my favorite character on the show and I like seeing how he handles each of the turtles. I thought he handled Leo in season four during his emo stage. And I loved how he taught the turtles a lesson in the episode the Journal by writing messed up scenarios of them when they came back to the present LMAO :D Splinter has got to be the most resourcful father ever.

did you really just use the phrase "bang up job" about Splinter in association to the turtles--his sons! :o

any way some one on here asked a while back which punishments or disipline methods would the turtles respond to indivdually and I have thought about this.

Leo: I think what really gets Leo's attention is being put in his place or taken to task in front of his brothers or in front of witnesses so that it humbles him a little. I think the reason why this is the most effective way to disipline Leo or shock him out of his behavior is because Leo has a lot of pride and tries not to make mistakes, that I think being humilated in front of people who he tries so hard to be a person of support to would sting enough to get his attention. Perfect examples are when Splinter embarrassed Leo in front of his brothers when he boasted he had the finest weapon and Splinter fought and disarmed him with just his cane, and that episode where he went to meet the ancient one and those two giants slaped him around and insulted him by taking baby talk to him.

Don: since Don doesn't actually get into trouble to often or shows many character flaws like, anger, pride, or lack of humility I think the best form of disipline Don responds to is being made to realize he doesn't actually know as much as he thinks he does. Don relies alot on technology and I think as a result he fogets that not everything is as concrete and solid as statistics and mathmatics, so I think being jolted in some way that life isn't always measured by calculation that would get his attention the best. Although I can't really pull out a instance where Splinter has used this on him because like I said Don seems the least likely to step out of line.

Raph: with Raph, I really think Splinter accords the most patients with him than any of the turtles. Raph seems to be the only turtle that can get away with flying off the handle or storming out of the lair. If any of the other turtles acted like that with out serious provoction they would get rebuked and punished. Raph on the other hand when he acts like this generally is told to go top side and blow off some steam for showing such aggression unless it seems malicious or completely uncalled for. Because of Raph trigger like temper I think Splinter generally lets him make his own mistakes then points it out to him how his temper was the cause of it and pretty much puts in front of his face what he did wrong and lests him feel remorse for it. I think this gets Raph's attention pretty quickly.

Mikey: I think out of all the turtles Mikey is probably the hardest to disipline and hardest to get through to. You see Splinter uses almost every disiplinary tactic on him from, wacking him on the head, lecturing him, yelling at him, threatening to not let him do things (like graduating), showing his disappoitment in him when he does wrong, letting his brothers nail him when he acts out, to making tongue-in-cheek sometimes snide remarks about his behavior, with only varying degrees of effectiveness. :ohwell: The only form of disipline/punishment that really works on Mikey is complete withdrawal/abandonment of his support group or those he relies on for emotional support. Despite Mikey's penchant to rile, annoy and aggravate the people cloest to him and push his luck with them Mikey is probably the turtle that relies the heaviest both emotionally and physically on his friends and family. He knows they will always be there for him and have his back so he kind of takes it for granted at times. So the worst thing for him would be for that support to be pulled out from under him and have the shock that he has to deal with things on his own. In the episode Grudge Match when every one includeing Splinter walked out on him and started delighting in him losing was probably the only time you see the biggest impact on Mikey and got his attention. Harsh but it was effective.

I agree with you for the most part. I do need to add a couple things:

- Raphael, due to his temper and anger issues, is almost as hard to discipline as Michelangelo. Splinter just needs to be more careful in his choice of punishments. While one day Raphael may remain stoic upon being whacked, the next day he may totally fly off the handle.
- I think withdrawal of privileges would work best on Donatello. Not that he needs it often. But things like withdrawal of his gadgets if he is spending too much time with them and gets distracted from training.

I agree. I also think Raph would be the first to storm off.

Hey, I just caught the second episode of the 2k3 series, and Splinter did whack Raph up on the head because he wanted to go up top and find those who are responsible for destroying the first lair.

So I guess him getting whacked in the head wouldn't be as destructive to him emotionally as we all thought. He still ended up not listening to Splinter in the end, so alot of good the whack did him!:lol: Maybe he's more thick headed than hot headed?:ohwell:

yeah i know, i got whapped in school for cussing...they didnt paddle butts, they paddled legs
lol

about raph flying off the handle being paddled, wonder if he'd get so out of control he'd hit Splinter back
if splinter expects them to respect him, he should treat them and punish them as teens not babies and hitting just isn't the way to do it. that might make raph disrespect splinter treating him like a baby punishing him with a spanking, at an older teen age (say 15-19) it's degrading and embarrasing. I can see raph running from home for good...im rambling... :P

That is a good question. Given Raph's short temperedness I would think Splinter would be a little more careful not to go so far with his punishments as to push Raph to far and he flips. And I think this is why I think Splinter is more patient with Raph over-all than any of the other turtles; because he knows how fargile a control Raph has over his temper. With some one with emotional problems like Raph I think it would be a mistake to use coporal punichment on a person like that. If he is already prone to violent out bursts using force to handle it would probably make it worse. however that is why I think Splinter lets Raph get away with some of his angry out burst and lets him have time to cool off, he lets alot slide with Raph because of his nature. That is not to say I think he lets him run wild but I think Splinter is inclined to let some of his behavior slide because of his short fuse than he would Don, Mikey, or Leo since they have better grips on their tempers. I wonder if growing up this cause any kind of resentment with the other turtles toward Raph? If one turtle has a temper tantrum and gets rebuked or punished for it but another is supposedly let off easy for the same thing and is allowed to go off on his own to clear his head because is more prone to have melt downs, eventually it is probably going to be questioned by the other brothers and cause resentment. :ohwell:

whoa, if Splinter did spank the turtles at all, i'm pretty sure he did it when they where still children and stopped that form of punishment when they reached eight or nine years old. :o There is no way Splinter would employ such a degrading form of punishment as spanking when the turtles are in their teens. For one thing I don't think the turtles would stand for it even if he is their father and also I think Splinter at this point would be trying to mold them into adults and make the respectful. And doing such a thing would just be keeping them stuck mentally as children. :(

Do any of you think Raph's big temper is something he has had forever, or was it something that slowly built up and became more prominent when he hit his teens?

I think Raph has always had issues with his temper but it worsened as he got older and his awareness of his situation became more clear to him plus I can picture Raph being a testy youngster and naturally wanting to assert himself, which I think started his feelings of anamosity toward Leonardo over the years.

that would be really something if Raph one day flew off the handle struck Splinter in a fit of rage :o . How do you think Splinter would react to something like that? Some how I don't think he would be as understanding as he was when Leo went over board and cut Splinter with his sword. I mean I know Raph would regret it as soon as he did it and feel horriable after wards, but how do you think Splinter respond to something like that? Would he be angry and lash out back at him, throw him out of the room and tell him to not go near him for a while? Or do you think Splinter would be coldly furious with him and refuse to aknowledge him for a while. Or would Splinter be just sad and dissapointed that his son struck him back?

This is something that could happen. I think Splinter has continously shown favortism to Leo over all the other Turtles. Like in Tales of Leo, with the story on how he saved Raph from the crocodile. He said Splinter taught him that trick. Why not teach all of the Turtles that trick instead of just Leo? This is just a glimpse of what their youthful lives were like. I could understand the animosity Raph would feel. Mikey might have dealt with it by being obnoxious and Donny got into his gizmo's since that was something nobody could best him at.

But back to what would happen if Raphael totally revolted physically towards Splinter, I personally think Splinter would be wise enough not to fight back. And I think this is when he might bring in Casey to help calm Raph, since those two are like best friends and all. He might even send Raph on his own little vacation by himself, because it's probably what he needed all along. I really think the rapport between Splinter and Raph could grow if they were to take a trip by themselves. There is no one else to get either of their attention, and it would give Splinter a real chance to truly get to know his son again. The same scenario could work effectivley with Don and Mikey too!

I think Splinter would be equally understanding with all 4 Turtles...if the Turtle in question was traumatized like Leo was. If it was just the Turtle not being careful or being angry at Splinter because he did not let him do something, then perhaps Splinter would use different discipline. And after all, he did send Leo away as a result of this- although it may have been the Ancient One's idea in order to help Leo heal. I wonder if Leo felt like Splinter had expelled him- like he no longer wanted to be his father/sensei/friend.

It would be cool to show Splinter giving each Turtle individual time. I wonder what they would be doing during this father and son special time in each Turtle's case.

Splinter taught Leo that trick because Leo was more eager to learn and showed more aptitude. While Raph was busy arguing with the TV, Mikey was too distracted with his comic books and video games, and Donnie was too mesmerized by his gadgets, Leo was probably begging Splinter to teach him new things.

That's still poor parenting in my eyes. In my family, I'm the only child, but I had cousins that were always around, and when one of us was wondering about something, either my parents or my aunt and uncle would get us all together so we all learned about the same subject. They always made it inviting to always learn something new too.

But putting that aside, if what you say about Leo probably wanting to learn more and going to Splinter to learn it, that statement gives me a whole new level of admiration to Donny, who loved and has learned a great deal of the technical world, and Splinter certaintly couldn't help him with that. He has a hard enough time just trying to figure out the tv remote, let alone on how to repair an old scrap computer. All this Donny learned all on his own, with no help from anybody! Where in the hell is his freaking medal for making sure the lair had heat and electricity so Splinter could watch his soaps!

Well I doubt that means Splinter takes any of his sons accomplishments for granted, just because he may have taught Leonardo a couple little tricks ahead of time doesn't mean he thinks any more highly of him than the others or that he's any more a contributor to the family than the others.

couldn't that be said of all the turtles though? Think about it the only formal teaching the turtles have ever had was in ninjitsu by Splinter because he learned it from Yoshi. No one taight the turtles (or Splinter for that matter) how to read or write or count, or do simple math or how to drive a car. All that the turtles had to figure out on their own and teach them selves. That is pretty freaking amazing that the turtles are all self taught on things that human children have to go school for for many years. :o

I'm pretty sure Splinter taught the Turtles how to read and count.

How did Splinter pick it up? Perhaps observing Yoshi counting. Perhaps reading the newspaper lining his cage. Perhaps after the mutation, he picked it up on his own. Remember this is a fantasy show.

Splinter knew how to read before the Turtles did. Remember he used the Renaissance book to name the Turtles.