Michaelangelo smart? Boy has he got the wrong turtle...
 

In nearly every medium Michaelangelo has had the reputation as being the dumb one of the group. And why not, in a group of hero's there has always got to be the dumb person in the group to ask the obvious questions for eighther comic relief or to have one of the intelligent characters spell it out to him as an excuse to inform the audiance step by step on what they are going to do and why, with it it looking like the plot is being patronizing to the veiwers. I don't know why Michaelangelo has always been viewed as the dumb one or where it started but almost all universes portray him as being on the "duh" side. Maybe it started in the orginal comics, or maybe it was the classic toon, but in most cases Michaelangelo is at worst the idiot and at best mearly the least intelligent of the bunch. Some universes emphasis this more than others and show im with have more gray matter between his ears than others. Eighther that or maybe much of his "dumb" behavior is misinterpurted for stupidty when he's really not not. So in your opiniuon which is the smartes version of michaelangelo where he is shown to actually be more clever than moronic?

I think where Michaelangelo's repuation of being dumb orginated in the classic cartoon. He is forever getting picked on by Raphael for being kind of an air head and the others don't seem to have much faith in his smarts. But since i've been rewatching the old show I've been noticing that Michaelangelo isn't as dumb as as i rememer him being. He actually seem rather quick on the up take in several situations and clever/imaginative with dealing with adversaries. And actually seemed pretty capable at solving or figuring out a problem when one was laid on him. He could actually pretty perceptive on occasion and ushaully can see that something is wrong or amiss pretty early on before it really starts making trouble. In the old toon it seemed you where told that Michaelangelo was dumb more often than he genuanly was.

In the New toon there have been alot of complaints that mikey is just an moron, and even though he is at times I think there is more mystery to his intellectual prowess than what is seen on the surface. He seems like he can stratigize when he has to, and whether he is just pulling scenarios comic book plots or if he is coming up with it himself his plans can work. Amybe mikey pretends to be dumber than he is because he doesn't think any one will take him seriously, since most of thetime his brothers think he's an idiot. But it's not as concrete that he is a moron as he lets on to be.

Mirage comics, I haven't read the comics so but it seems he took a back seat when it came to plans or giving input on stratigy and sometimes asked obvious questions. But seemed to enjoy reading. Now I don't know if liking books is a sign of being smart but it least that shows he akes the inciative to learn.

Live ation movie Mikey, he seemed he had an out side the box way of thinking. He seemed to come up with wacky ideas on how to reach a goal like putting an antidote into a bunch of donuts to feed to two monsters, that almost worked.

CGI Mikey seems to be regared as the least intelligent version of Michaelangelo so far due to his over all flightiness.

which Michaelangelo is the smartest version of him?

In Volume 4 of Mirage, the Triceratons see him as a tactical genius in combat.

Well, as a matter of fact it did work, just after a little persuasion from the carbon dioxide in the fire extinguishers. I know not to automatically assume he's dumb, I've never thought about the turtles as typical stereotypes.

I do not know if you have read the Archie TMNT Adventures. But I do not remember Mikey being particularly dumb in that version. He may have been comic relief, but in no way was he incompetent.

I've been rewatching some old toon TMNT cartoons, and I noticed that Mike comes up a lot with good plans. He may come off as a slacker sometimes, but he knows how to handle himself in a tough situation.

I think it was also that stoner/surfer persona that he had in the old toon that has led to him being the moron of the group. I agree on all of your points Sage. I think Mikey has a lot more intellect than he lets on, and I do think that ties in to the goofball nature of him. I think the live action movie is the best overall persona of Mikey. He was a bit goofy but still was quite smart. CGI and FF have probably been the worse versions of Mikey.

That's exactly my thought; he's much more a stoner than an idiot.

That said, I am not adequately familiar with the various universes to really say which presented him as the smartest. I know the old 'toon made him way too Spicoli for me; accordingly, he was my least favorite Turtle, and might still be...

vol. 3 Mikey seemed to be more mature since he was taking care of shadow and spent his time being a writer.

you know I really haven't seen much of the 80's cartoon but I never got a "stoner" vibe off of him. Or really that he was much of a "surfer" persona, expect for a few "surfer" slang thrown aorund here and there he seemed like a chilled out sort or guy.

I actually voted for the 80's cartoon Mike, even though I've only seen two seasons of it. From what I've seen this version of him seems like he has more awareness of whats going on and a better grasp on things. Mikey in the current toon although I think is smarter than he's given credit for, seems much more scatter brained and...I don't know, clueless at times. :ohwell:

That's because he's Mikey for the ADD generation.

Mikey may not be a brainiac, but his not directly stupid eather.

You know I really don't get why CGI Mikey is considered so stupid. Based on how little his screen time was and what little speaking scenes he actually had I don't think there was enough time given to show how smart or dumb he was. Other than getting beat up by bunch of kids and falling down a few times, I don't think he did or said anything that outrageously stupid. :ohwell: In alot of ways I thought he was more mild than the cartoon version of him on 4KIDS.

having ADD doesn't mean you are scatter brained or dumb, and it's to bad that tv execs think not being able to concentrate equals stupidity.

Vol. three? What version are you talking about?

Umm Image.

volume three refers to the third volume of the comics.

volumes 1,2, and 4 were mirage

vol 3 was done by image comics and is not cosidered canon

He got a book published. And Oprah Liked it.

i like Mirage Mike best. He was pretty mature most the time in Archies if I recall correctly

I'm really tired of seeing them portray him as a moron and a wuss. he can be funny and be smart at the same time. in FF he really regressed like they all did

I liked the live version Mikey the best. He jus happened to have more of a smarter, appealing way about him in the live action movies than any other incarnation.

I don't get why Mikey is the "stupid" turtle at all. Why does he have to be the idiot any way? Is it to make him funny or is it because he is the the most light hearted of the group? Does liking comics and video games and being hyper automatically make you a moron?

Well, I've been putting off posting in here for a bit, mostly because I'm torn about how to answer it. For me it's hard to classify each Mike in the different universes as completely different characters. Oh sure, there are some variations, as happens with all the Turtles, but in general for me it's just one big Mike (really, this can probably be applied to all of the Turtles).

I'll attempt to make sense of this...

I discovered the TMNT through the original toon and it's from there that Michaelangelo became my favorite character. Why? I think I liked him because he was light-hearted and funny. I never saw him as stupid (or stoned, as I've been seeing people say around here lately). Quite the opposite; I loved the times when he had the idea that saved the day. I don't think it was that rare, although it wasn't the specific role he was meant to play regularly.

Next for me was the first movie, which came out about six months after I started watching the cartoon. The obviously different feel of the movie when compared to the cartoon was too much for a lot of people to handle (especially movie critics), but that honestly never bothered me. What I saw in the movie was more depth to the same character and a new way to understand how Mike works. Ordering pizza while Splinter's giving them a lesson, changing the subject when Don asks him what he thought about what it'd be like not having Splinter, the rage we see briefly displayed in the barn, etc. And all of that just added to the reasons why he would remain my favorite character.

And then the comic books eventually fed into that (and for simplicity at this time, I'm lumping all of that together).

While all of the different genre Mikes were slightly different from each other, none of them contradicted themselves. UNTIL it started working its way into the 4Kids series that Mike was actually stupid AND, worst of all, an incompetent fighter. For all the jokes that the other Turtles might make towards him - and let's face it, he asks for it - I don't think any of them would ever, ever, in honest truth, consider Mike to be unintelligent and especially a less than competent fighter.

Now, with all of that said, I think Vol. 1-3 of the Mirage(Image) comic book feature the best exploration of Mike's character. Although the Archie series did a pretty darn good job, too. And the live action Mike was really fun. And CGI Mike was really cute...

See, this is why I was avoiding this topic; I can't pick just one!

I think people get the asumption that Mikey was a stoner because he would say things like "dude I've got a serious case of the major munchies!":lol:
He was talking about how hungry he is allot of the time so I think people just got it from that.
Much in the same way people think about Shaggy and Scooby who eat all the time yet aren't super fat.

Btw I went with the Image comics version because I think he had the most going for him in that version even if it was short lived but next after that I'd have to go with Mirage.
I've never been much of a Michaelangelo fan mostly because of the cartoon, but once I got into the comics more I didn't mind him so much.
I think my least fave version of him though is the 2k3-Now version he's just such a goof off and is just so annoying.

Another reason I can't bring myself to pick an answer... Image Mike is very much a continuation of Mirage (Vol. 1-2) Mike, so picking it (for me) would be like ignoring how he got to be the character he is in Vol. 3. But Vol. 3 definitely did some good things for Mike.

I voted for old toon Mike because to me in that version he wasn't dumb for all the reasons I've already mentioned, but just...unpretencious and--nice. I think alot of people tend to attribute smarts and intellect with being sly and cunning and even deceitful, which Michaelangelo wasn't. Michaelangelo is just a nice person and nice people tend to get taken advantge of because they appear weak or easy to targets. No one really messes with mean or sarcastic people because you naturally think they are to smart to go along with anything. But nice genuane people tend to get used as a result of their good natured dispostions. How many times did Michaelangelo in the old toon have to reluctantly have to do something embarrassing to distract an enemy? Why not the other turtles? Because he was the most mild of the turtles he was forced to do the dirty work and look the foolish. Unless you are a calculating dishonest bastard that can manipulate people and pull the wool over their eyes you aren't considered very smart, especially if you are also have a positive out look and amiable disposition. I don't why this is but individuals who are sunny and genuane personas, people tend to think theat you are eighther simple because you don't realize all the bad stuff around you, or you are just stupid. And that why I think Michaelangelo in the classic toon came off as dumb character in the old toon when he wasn't.

Mikey in the new toon isn't dumb so much as he is foolish. He does things that he should know better about and that me makes him appear like an idiot. When you do something that any one could see would get you trouble you look like an idiot when you do it. Now any one can do something they should no better about but this is a regualr habit of him. Alot of Mikey's antics are things that he should not do but does any way, so every one rolls their eyes at him and thinks he is a moron. Perfect examples are when he was playing with the buttons on some air craft even after Don tells him to "leave the shiny buttons alone Mikey" and suddenly the compartment he is in detaches and he falls away screaming. Thing like that make you people go :sweatdro:... dumbass. So it's not really that Mikey is actaully stupid but he does stupid things eighther delberately or accidently because he doesn't think things through. Mikey also tends to says thing out of context and nothing makes you look like a idiot more than when people are having a serious conversation during a tense moment and you make some radom off the wall comment. Another thing and I think this is the biggest thing that makes Mikey look like a moron is he is an attention whore.

um, maybe I'm not understanding you very well but it seems you kind of contradicted your self here. The first thing you said was that worst thing about Mikey in the current series he is stupid and an incompentent fighter, then you say that no one would consider him unintelligent and is a good fighter. :-?

For all of his idiotic antics Mikey is actually rather smart, it just doesn't come up very often, and when it does it's like his brothers make a big deal that he actually had an idea. It's like when ever Mikey has something smart to say every one is shocked like hell just froze over or pigs just learned to fly. It's almost like Mikey isn't allowed to be smart, and I've noticed this in other versions as well like the new movie. I think this is why I voted for 80's toon Mikey because I felt that there wasn't a standard that he had to be the dumb one. In the the current toon it seems like there are standards that the good ideas have to come from Leo or Don, the badass stuff has to come from Raph and the wacky dumb stuff has to come from Mikey.

I don't really get this in the 80's toon, in an episode where a robot goes crazy because it's control by a video game Mikey figures this out and hooks up his game to it to take control of it. I was shocked, because I wouldn't think Mikey would be the one to pull something off like that, because I would think it be Don. I could never picture mikey in the current toon or movie written to do something like that.

No, not contradicting, but trying to reflect how poorly Mike has been written lately. Read what I wrote again... it makes sense.

Easily Image, he writes books and he has a lot more character depth. There's more to him then stupid one liners and a surfer attitude.

I just read what you wrote here and I think maybe you are being a teensy bit biased. From what I saw in season six Mikey showed that he could do dumb things that doesn't involve being to much of a nice guy that gets taken advantage of. Like in one episode called Nightmare...something :roll: he gets himself in trouble by messing with a machine that Donatello directly forbids anyone from useing and gets himself and Leo trapped and releases this wacky ghost. I would say that was pretty dumb. :|

I don't get why people keep saying this Mikey acted no diffrent in FF than how he always does. Seriously peaple give me one instance where Mikey acted more stupid or immature in Fast Foward than how he was in seasons 1-5?

I agree with you about old toon Mike, I think that's why I'm not a fan of him since I got to know that version first growing up.
He was very selfish allot of the time, didn't listen to the other turtle or splinter, would cop a serious attitude if he didnt get his way and lets not forget the time he went all emo when they made him think they forgot his birthday lol
&
I'm sure people could give you quite a few.
How about when he keeps taunting Raph when he wins the battle nexus for instance?
I'm sure there's more but it's 5am here and I don't feel like thinking about anymore times when a character I really don't care for acts like an idiot.:lol:

Well dude... Bebop and Rocksteady used a chip from the same videogame Mikey was playing alot with in the same episode on that robot. Krang's robot kept talking like the game's computer. Even during the episode one of the turtles was like 'Michealangelo, would you turn off that damn videogame!' when they heard Krang's robot talking. Then Mikey realized it and hooked up his game to the android. I don't see it so OOC for Mikey to think this up, and he would have done it even sooner in the 2K3 version since he's a bigger game fan there, while in the old show he just so happened to become this big videogame fan just in that episode.

you are right Jelly Bean that Michaelangelo in the old toon does do dumb things occassionally with out some one taking advantage of him. When I wrote that I just ment that in the old toon Michaelangelo was constantly getting picked on over little things and basically being told he was dumber than he actually was at times in the series. When I don't think he really deserved it since he did try and most of his "stupid" moments where just mistakes that any one could have. But then I kind of felt that the times where Michaelangelo acted randomly dumb it seemed a bit forced like it was just a plot device to let the Shredder get away. I think Michaelangelo in the old toon was more flighty than down right stupid, and made mistakes like of the turtles.

He was no more selfish and had bouts of rebellion any more than the other turtles. And the attitude thing, Michaelangelo in the old toon seems to be one of the more milder version when it comes to coping an attitude. ;) :lol:

meh, I guess we will have to agree to disagree here, in the same situation as this, I don't see Mikey in the current toon catching on quicker, just based on how his character generally acts in situations like this. Mikey from the current toon might be more of video games fanatic but I don't normally see him display the kind of awareness or inciative that I've seen 80's toon Mikey show so far.

lol, bitter much? ;) be careful, if Mikey fans are as rabid as Raphael fans you might be torn apart for saying stuff like that. LOL I haven't seen much of evidence of this yet in his character but is he as self centered and childish as Mikey in the current can be?

there was that time in Reality Check where Mikey figured out a way to adjust the bomb to just take out the building instead of the city with out any of the turtles having to sacrafice them selves to disarm it. So even though Mikey doesn't show very it often in 2k3 he does have moments of ingenuity.


Michaelangelo fans are bit more docile than Raphael fans ;) That and some the negative things said about our favorite turtle is sadly true sometimes so we can't really get to indignant when his flaws are pointed out. :roll: But as to whether Michaelangelo in the OT is as self centered and childish as 2k3 Mikey I would say comparatively no, I feel OT Mike isn't portrayed as the younger brother like Mikey is in the 2k3 series is. Plus when the show get into Red Sky Michaelangelo as well as the other turtles act more mature and smart, so Mike's potrayal in the classic toon evolves, where is Mikey in the 2k3 series de-evolves when it his FF.

and yet you guys are the ones that are forever bitching about him and crusifying him for his flaws:roll: As fans you guys should look at his posetive traits and acomplishments not dwell on his negative ones.

I forgot about this that is true.

Ok what exactly is Red Sky? I've heard this phrase before and I bit confused on what it referes too. Is it a seperate series from the 80's toon or a continuation?

Red Sky is when the series changes the opening theme, Shredder and Krang are replaced by Lord Dregg, and the turtles mutate into hulk-wannabes.


Everyone seems to make a big deal about how 'dark' and 'serious' the show gets there, but bleh. I've seen a few eps, and the only difference I see from the rest of the show is how the episodes feel more like part of an on-going saga and not so episodic... but the turtles are still cracking jokes and one-liners, there's barely any actual non-slapstick fighting... and they're still fighting silly looking cartoony monsters and things. Oh.. and in the eps regarding their transformations, suddenly the turtles are unable to do anything unless they transform.

you know now that I've seen more of the 80's toon I believe I've gotten a better feel for the turtles characters, and I have to wonder why exactly did every one one including the turtles think Mikey was dumb? :-? From what I've seen he seems pretty capable and intelligent enough over-all and he doesn't screw up all that much but I'm noticing that the other turtles tend to make little quips about him not being too smart in the 80's toon, and he doesn't seem (to me any way) to really do anything that terriably dumb. From what I've seen so far 80's Mike seems to deserve being called stpid even less than CGI and NT Mikey. :-?

Mainly because the "goofy one" is usually saddled as the dumber one. I think the episodes by Jeff Scott made him a might stupid. Like the "This is like looking for a noodle in a haystack" line.

All and all, it depends on the episode. Sometimes he appears dumber than others. I can't remember anything off the top of my head, though. But occassionally he's seen as the most gluttonous, food loving one.

As for the 2k3 Mikey... I compare him to Dale of Rescue Rangers. he isn't so much dumb, as not the smartest in the group, and he has an over abundant hero worshipping love of comics and movies. Of course, in FF, this was what the character was defined as, leading to "Graduation Day" and his Darkwing Duck-esque apperance in the "Clash of the Turtle Titan" episode.

So, I could never so much call him dumb in any aspect as much as the least mature. Though, I'm sure multiple times in the old series he was the first to say "In English please?" when Donatello explains something technical. Usually him or Raph.

My feeling a lot of the time is that when Mikey is acting "dumb" he's doing just that: acting. His style of humor is very similar to my own. I tend to poke fun at myself or act dumb to make people laugh. Its kinda subtle, but the fact that I'm joking is just obvious enough that people don't legitimately think that I'm stupid.

It certainly isn't the 2k3 Mikey.

I swear, in that series, it's one stupid, unneeded joke/crack after another from Mikey. It's so excessive that it becomes annoying to the viewer. They tried making it a more serious, adult-oriented animated series that kids could still enjoy, but they incorporated too much Mikey stupidity so the series comes off as weird and unbalanced. Mikey from 2k3 is WAY cornier than anything I ever watched in the OT, so I don't know where a lot of people get off with the complaints (not in this thread, I'm talking about in general where some claim the OT was a total cheese show).

you know if I where to be honest with my self, and be unbiased, no version of Michaelangelo is actually "dumb"; some are more stupidly portrayed than others but it would be untrue to say that him on his own is merits is stupid. We can all say what we want about the little twerp but the very fact that he is a ninja and effective one (in varying degrees) means he isn't a total retard and has enough smarts that, honestly, the average joe probably doesn't have to survive as a ninja.

I don't think that the comic versions of Michaelangelo should even be up there since those versions of him are in a completely diffrent catergory than the cartoon versions of him and are naturally going to appear more intelligent than their bastardized cartoon versions. Big diffrence? the comics take him seriously as a character and the cartoon/movie medias doesn't.

since I don't think the comic mediums should be up there competeing against the toon versions, I'm going to just concentrate on the media versions. So from smartest to dumbest, to me it goes:

Orginal toon Michaelangelo

CGI Movie Michaelangelo

2k3 series Michaelangelo

and this is exactly why 2k3 is at the bottom and OT is at the top. 2k3 Mikey's antics and demeaner makes him come across more stupid than CGI Mikey's Haley's comet remark or his klutz fests, or OT Mike's surfer lingo does.

aw, sh*t I forgot about L.A movie Mike :evil: He was smart and creative too and a decent portrayal of comic accurate Mike. I don't think anything can top his idea of the "Anceint Prefight donut" LMAO :lol:. The Live action Mike'a are in a catergory all by them selves.