If 2009 is the death of TMNT, how long will it be till the next reboot?
 

The original cartoon ended in 1996, followed right after by the Next Mutation in 1997.

There was a 5 year gap of nothing in terms of television from late 1998-early 2003.

How many years do you think it'll be before someone gets the idea to try and reboot the TMNT franchise again? If the current cartoon and toys never made as much a splash as the original toon did, why would a theoretical third cartoon years down the road be any different? Would Playmates still be in charge of the toys?

What do you think?

I'd say there's a second live action failure, then 5 empty years, keep to the old pattern. :P

A sabbatical would build interest back up probably.

It could be different this time round since the consumer market is much different than it was in the 90's.

===HERO

Playmates proposed a reboot for 2008 (Ultimate Ninja Turtles) which was rejected by MIRAGE, only this was probably an EXTREMLY dumb decision considering it was a project Playmates would have INVESTED in and would have made more of an effort on. We'd have seen Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, Rat King etc, all back, and therefore an older market would have been acheived with the existing consumers and new ones.

Ah, and there lies the problem. Apparently the old toon is Laird's mortal enemy or something... :roll:

The current cartoon may not have made as much of a splash as the old cartoon but that hardly suggest that it was a failure, 7 seasons, a movie, a successful toyline, and over a billion dollars in worldwide revenue, has pretty much solidified the TMNT franchise as an evergreen property, making it much easier to get another show up and running, especially with there being more cable/HD channels searching for content and the possibility another movie release in about three years.


And Peter Laird seems to be pretty happy with Mirages' relationship with Playmates, so I would say it's very likely Playmates will still be in charge of the toyline.

With the 25th "Shell-ebration" there seems to be a slight shift in the way of thinking at Mirage.

I'm kind of sick of that line.

I'm sure Laird doesn't hate the old toon, but as long as he has creative control, he's not obligated to listen to fans whining about what they want to see in his version. If I made a really awesome story, then someone else made a spin-off and added characters, I'd respect it, but I'd never feel like I had to include their characters in the story I wanted to tell.

Laird and all the fans have to realize that the new comics are being funded by the old toon anyway.

The new comics are being funded?


Last I checked, Gary had pretty much stopped all advertising for them and avoided distribution outside diamond. And deliberatelly given the book contract to a very bad choice based on suspicious relations

1980's retro
 

Maybe it will don't be back att all. Maybe the 2003 cartoon is just a part of the 1980's retro movement wave that has hit the world in the arly 2000's. When that's over, TMNT as a media franchise can be gone (even if the Mirage comics will still exist).

There won't be a live action series this time. It'll be substituted for a CGI-human movie, and then the TMNT will be done for more years. I'd say 6-8 this time.

Laird has admitted to hating the old toon and the Archie series. Also a lot of the characters made for both the old toon and Archie series were created by him. Which is why I find it so stupid that he refuses to use them in anything.

He could so easily take his original concepts for Bebop and Rocksteady and use them in the new series. They would fit in perfectly and doing such would attract a larger audience. Instead he refuses because he doesn't want there to be too many mutants in the show. It's okay to have 900 aliens, monsters, mythical creatures, and demons but God forbid if there's a few more mutants. I'm sure he could re-write just about every character and make them fit that template if it was absolutely necessary. But it's to late for that anyways.

7 seasons
 

Isn't the 2003 cartoon much more popular after 7 seasons that the 1987 cartoon was after 7 seasons? Season 7 of the 1987 cartoon was 1993. It was right after the third movie and TMNT was declining.

Don't know. Does anyone know where to find ratings of the old show from 1993? Is this info archived anywhere?

Third movie
 

Here I found some ratings for the third movie: http://groups.google.se/group/rec.ar...912d5ac2d6ab69.

Only in the eyes of fans with axes to grind.

Laird used to claim to liking the old toon but it not being his particular vision for the turtles, of course that was before people started making an issue of his opinion of it. I think that more than anything has affected the way he openly talks about it

Ironicaly back in the day he'd be the one to one defend it Mirage purists who hated it. I've heard some fans describe him as a secret or "closet fan" of the series and I can see were they get that as beyond the few digs he's had at the show he has subtely sneaked in some old toon concepts. At very least he's been influenced by some of the concepts from it.

Really? Can you provide a quote on that because to my knowledge he's never claimed to hate either. Disdain for the old toon, certainly but I've never heard him say he hates it.

As for the claim he doesn't like the Archie series, that is just one of those nagging things that fans get into their heads that refuses to go away. He's always claimed to like the comic. He of course worked on the book himself illustrating quite a lot of the covers. I vaguely remember him saying that if the old toon had turned out like TMNT Adventures he wouldn't have a problem with it. He wanted to do a crossover between the Mirage and Archie turtles and at the start of Volume 4 said he would interested in doing that.

I can understand why people would think he does given his thoughts on the old toon. Murphy made a comment on here that people interpreted that he hated it, he later clarifed it wasn't what he meant and he's never heard Laird express anything bad about the comic but I guess the thought really got engrained in fans minds then.

Maybe he's changed his mind since then. So again, maybe you provide a quote on that.

Marginaly perhaps. Staunch fans of the old toon that are dislike(d) 2K3 did so simply was because it's new and not what they grew up. Most of them that watched some of it seemed to dismiss instantly because it seemed different to what they knew.

Including some old toon characters would be nice but I couldn't see it changing much. They'd be overlooked by some and criticised for changing them by others. Hell, I've even heard some people say they hate the new versions of Bebop and Rocksteady (prior to Samurai Tourist). I'm not really sure what show they were watching. If they'd have said they hated the new version of Krang or how Krang was now the Shredder I would've understood....It would still have been stupid....but I would've understood.

Shredder
 

Also remember that Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang were written out of the stories early, and Shredder working alone.

I think if the new Cartoon will end after the seventh season, the turtles should go for good. It's amazing that a 80's cartoon had such a great revival and was supirior over other remake (He-Men etc.) but they should end it as long as the show is high rated.
Maybe there should be a reboot in 10 or 15 years so a new generation could enjoy the turtles as we did in the 80's or th 00's

He-Man
 

Yeah, the 2002 He-Man version was not that successful.

I am a huge fan of old school He-Man. But i remember loving the new show. Skeleton's origin was a nice way to start the series imo.

2004
 

It was cancelled already in 2004.

I think it will be about 8 or more years. Or maybe they will end forever. We'll see.

I agree with Galactus. Laird likes the original series to a degree, acknowledges it's success, and if anyone seriously thinks Ch'rell isnt probably one of the best, yet VERY blatant reinterpretations of Krang, there fooling themselves.

No thanks I don't feel like reading through the letters section of Volume 4. He hints at distaste in the interviews on the early 2K3 DVDs too if I remember correctly.

Anyways maybe he has changed his mind since then. I personally don't care either way. If he didn't have an issue with Archie then he wouldn't have shot down the Ultimate TMNT idea as quickly as he did. And you can say maybe he didn't think it'd be good for turtles but if he's going to approve the turtles running around with baby versions of themselves over that then he's got some serious issues.

I'm with Galactus. I've seen those interviews. All I've ever heard Laird imply is that the old toon Tutles just aren't his vision. They made him rich. He started the TMNT as a parody, and I'm sure he takes them less seriously than some of the people on this board. You can respect something, but also acknowledge that it's not the direction you would have chosen.

I want some concrete evidence, quotes, the works, that proves Laird out-and-out despises the old toon and Archie versions.

I can think of two reasons he shot it down:

1) It was a glaring change of direction, undermining the six years of continuity this univese had built. I can totally see where he was coming from, even though I personally think it was an awesome idea.

2) It's not his vision. I realize he may have created some of the mutant characters back in the day, but it was never the direction he personally would've chosen for the Turtles. That's what he says in all those interviews that you misinterpret as hatred. I love Archie as much as the next guy, but I can respect Laird's decision to tell the stories he wants to tell. Fans acting like they have a right to demand he adapt other people's versions of his characters is ludicrous.

While I agree on the stupidity of the idea, and that Laird may not know how to sell TMNT to a larger audience, I don't think that bares any connection to his respect towards the old toon, nor his right to stick to his own creative direction.

"He was going to approve a crappy idea, therefore he needs to include characters from other people's versions!" Huh?

And by the way, I'm not a Laid suck-up. I think it'd be great if he'd use Archie and old toon characters. But he's not obligated to do so, and it doesn't mean he hates them.

Sorry I don't have that kind of free time look it up yourself I told you where to find it.

It'd be five years for starters. Also how does it undermine anything? All I suggested is he use Archie characters not change the tone of the series of how any of the turtles act. So I fail to see where he's coming from.

And again I repeat I wouldn't expect him to. Is it to much to ask he at least include some of these characters? Instead of making up tons of new and uninteresting monsters, demons, and aliens use some of the stock piled ones he already has. He could easily fit any of those into the series. I wouldn't care if their origins were re-written hell half of them didn't even have solid origins.

And the turtles series we have now isn't "his vision". He has **** to do with it. All he does is test screen episodes now. He doesn't, and never did, write any of the episodes, unless you count the comic adaptation episodes which were all changed anyways. No one from Mirage has written any episodes since season 4 I believe it was. 4Kids fired everyone who worked on the series before that and everyone working on it since then is new.

So if you want to get technical what's happening to turtles now isn't his vision either.

The only creative direction he takes is in his volume 4 comics and now and again he decides to help on a tales issue. Sure he approves everything but that's it. Other people are building his universe and the only thing stopping them from expanding are him.

Let's say even Playmates just wanted to make toys based off the Archie series, I could be wrong here but he even shot that idea down. To me that's all the evidence I need. Also if I remember correctly it's his fault it's taking so long for the "Forever War" book to be finished. It should have been done ages again. I remember an artist was on here complaining about that awhile back.

He doesn't need to do anything. My point is I don't see how he can shoot down a good idea and go with a bad one. Also the baby turtles wasn't his "vision" so I have no clue why you even said that. You can go off about that all you want point is the turtles series isn't, and hasn't been his complete vision for awhile now which is most likely why he doesn't give a flying **** if it ends.

There's ways he says things where it's implied maybe your bad at reading deeper into things or maybe I just look at stuff more negatively. You can say he doesn't hate some of his fans too but reading a lot of his blog comments makes it apparent to me he does. That may be a different subject but the tone of his rants are pretty clear to me and they're not nice most of the time.

2000's nostalgia
 

Maybe when 2000's nostalgia kicks in again (and with 2000's I mean the years 2000-2009)?

5 years. That seems the going rate... 5-10 years or so.

As for Ultimate TMNT... I would have loved to have seen that as much as everyone else... but it feels to me that that would need to be a complete reboot at least 2 years after TMNT 2k3/FF/BTTS would have been canceled. I mean, we'd have another new origin story (as Splinter was Hamato Yoshi and not the pet, and if Shredder and Krang were involved in the mutation process). Though I think the idea could have been tweaked a little to keep everything in the 2k3 universe... but it would essentially just be adding characters.

Mix
 

The best that could happen would be if you take the best from each TMNT universe and mix them up in a new TMNT universe.

Exactly my point, but it'd be adding characters they could further develop and make some interesting story arcs. Hell they could adapt story arcs from Archie and make them fit into the new series.

The future shark trilogy could so easily be adapted. They don't even have to go overboard with the mutants really. Just one or two. Verminator X could carry a few episodes just by himself with the kinda character he is.

Here's one free of charge, Wyrm and Scumbug. How can we explain them? Outbreak virus mutants that some how escaped being gassed by the vaccine or the story could be told as a flashback episode to that period of time.

I agree if they tried to change it a lot it would be one big re-vamp and it probably wouldn't work very well they just need to put some through into the idea and develop it more.

Wyrm and Scumbug
 

We don't need Wyrm and Scumbug I think. There are cooler Archie characters (both god and bad), like Armaggon, the Mutanimals, Slash and Verminator X.

So how do you explain Marty Isenberg? He worked on seasons one to three and only missed two seasons en route to returning to FF. The only reason he's not on TMNT right now is because he became head writer of Transformers: Animated

Transformers Animated
 

Is Transformers Animated popular? If not, he will maybe return again?

I'd say. In fact, I just enjoyed a packet of Transformers animated fruit snacks not but 'alf an hour a go. [/bad John Cleese impersonation]

I still think Ultimate TMNT would have really worked better for a true relaunch, and not so much a new season. Mainly because I wanna see how they'd pull it off without having to completely sink into 2k3 methodology.

You know what, Spitfire? Touche. I'm not sure if I can call it "hatred," but I suppose Laird really does seem to dislike the old ton/Archie versions of the TMNT.

That said, didn't he have something to do with the new ending of "The King"?

Hate
 

The words "hate" and "hatred" are so overused, people say they "hate" school subjets, cartoons and soccer and ice hockey teams. The real "hate" is the one when people hate each other, which just leads to stupid things like racism and wars.

I just hope I'm interested in the TMNT when they come back on, if i'm not then i won't care about them.

Interested once again
 

If not, you will maybe be interested once again, just like how many here did in the early 2000's. Many hadn't been interested in TMNT for years when the 2003 cartoon arrived. Also, the Internet has played an important role.

Is that a serious question?

The show has had two seasons already produced with a third half-way through production, and regardless of it's popularity (which it has in drones), Transformers, in WHATEVER form it takes, will ALWAYS be more popular and more profitable than TMNT. Fact.

If it "bombed", TMNT would long be over once it did.

Sweden
 

I didn't know that? Here in Sweden, a lot of cartoons like that aren't shown.