The End of Tales of the TMNT?
 

Diamond has changed their threshold requirements for the titles that it distributes.

Why this is the likely doom of TMNT comic books.

Yea, saw that, ouch. Looks like Gary's got his excuse.

Things just keep getting worse.

The big problem here is that this could be the end of Tales (at least for now and through Diamond) and that it will be more at the hands of the comic book industry itself than Gary pulling the plug. All those people saying they're waiting for the trades or only want their stories animated and on TV really should be jumping on the books, otherwise the future could be pretty bleak :dead:

Begging people to buy a comic book isn't going to save it. :|

I know that, I'm not saying that's what should happen, I'm just still kinda taken aback when I see people complaining about the show finishing and not getting their TMNT fix but then not taking any interest in the comics at all. My main point is that ultimately, the death knell is more likely to come from Diamond these days.

Mirage killed the comics by basically making it impossible for casual fans to get interested in them. I, personally love the comics but when they keep going with the same old style and do nothing to punch them up or keep with the times then nobody is going to care. You don't see any graphic novels in book stores (that would help keep the turles in the minds of comic fans), and really anything published by Mirage is kind of drab and not very eye catching.

I mean when you walk into any decent comic shop there are so many titles to choose from and quite honestly Mirage and the Turtles offer relatively little to stand out from the others. Lets face it, Mirage is very "small time" still trying to hang in there with the big boys. They probably should at least consider crossovers with comics publishers who can actually sell comic books with greater success.

Tales is my favorite comic book titles. Oh well. Might as well find a new comic to read...

I'll be sad to see Tales go.

===HERO

It is a shame to see Tales go, but as has already been mentioned, there's more to blame here than just Diamond.

You'd think a comic titled "Ninja Turtles" released during the prime of the Ninja Turtles resurgance, wouldn't generate such pitiful numbers.

And yet, trades for the book were not made available in places where the core audience could find them (book stores). Additionally, Laird's insistence on "doing his buddy Jim a solid", resulted in an artstyle that didn't appeal top practically anyone.

There were a number of poor business and creative decisions which lead to Tales' self destruction, and considering the massive upswing in popularity Ninja Turtles was going through during Tales' run, there really is no quality excuse for such failures.

Still, "failure" may not be an appropriate word. 50+ issues is a very, very healthy run. But it was 50+ issues of nonprofit which could have been otherwise if it hadn't been for a group of stubborn old men.

Ah well. I have all my issues and I'll enjoy them. I guess this just means more money for me to save.

As I've said before, TMNT related comics are the only ones I actively collect these days, and if they go under, I have no reason to visit my local CBG except maybe a couple of times a year. I may pick up HeroClix, an issue of Hellboy or two, and/or a character guide when I'm there, but the TMNT is the reason I go.

TMNT is the only comics I collect so if there done that would suck because I would just be done with comics then.

I just hope every issue is eventually available in trade. I'm ready to start picking these up in tbp form.

Does it matter? They don't reprint the trades so its lose-lose.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Just about EVERY book is being released in Trade PaperBack form these Days. Hell, even stuff from the 30's, like the original Popeye News Paper strips is being put out in TPB form. So, why can't Turtles?

And as much as I HATE to drag Jim's art through the mud again like everyone else is doing, I really have ot agree with it. It's just not all that great. The Turtles don't have to look like a super bulked up Superman or your other typical super hero, but you should at least be able to tell the humans from the mutants...

A little advertising here and there also wouldn't hurt...with a set time frame for when people can pick up Trade Paperbacks. If you didn't walk into a comic book store, how many people even know that Tales of the TMNT had been revived?

There is no reason that Turtles needs to go away, in either Comic or Movie/TV form. But bad decisions and other problems are not helping matters ...

This is probably the most concise and accurate assesment of the comics' run that I've seen. The major problem, as has been stated many times, is a lack of exposure. A lack of reprints. A lack of advertising. A lack of trades in bookstores (and this is a huge part of how comics thrive nowadays).

And, yeah, the presentation. I personally find alot to like in Lawson's art. It's not my favorite, but I can certainly appreciate it. What anyone, fan or not, has to admit, is that his style isn't eye-catching for a casual audience. That's the bottom line of it.

If this marks the end of the run, at least alot of good came out of it. I only heartily wish for a massive run of trades (like City at War, Volume 2, Volume 4), and to see Volume 4 finished.

Well this isn't good at all. Its safe to say the Tales series will end somehow prematurely. If not by this Diamond change of polices then Mirage will call it quits right away. Maybe they'll reprint the completed unreleased Tales issues into a trade instead? It might be feasible. Wasn't Tales suppose to end sometime this year anyway?
What else does this mean to us? What about all the other stuff that Mirage planned for the 25th anniversary among their comics plans? Will we not see the TMNT Vol 1 tpb at all? The Mirage Universe book? The Forever War trade and mini? I mean this could cripple all this from coming out at all. What is going to be Mirages solutions to all these planned books? Buy them direct from Mirage, via TMNT V4? Ouch for me. The Canadian dollar dropping doesn't help me at all. And I'd prefer not to incur shipping and handling costs added to them.
I agree with everyone when the TMNT have come back into the public eye again this 2nd surgence of mass fame, the classic comics version of the TMNT shouldn't have been so hidden from the public eye. But I still think Mirage is just too small and nothing still could've changed this. The TMNT as a property, is something very generational. Every 10 years it can come back to a new generation of children. But the old TMNT in the direct comic book market just can't be improved. All small comic publishers are in trouble now, not just Mirage. Should Mirage have done better? Possibly. I'm not sure the art of Jim Lawson is all at fault entirely now. I thinks its execution to some extant and long term intent. Mirages thinking just wasn't in any of these.
The old TMNT vol 1 comic had high print numbers later on, due to the first TMNT craze. Look at the first 2 issues of TMNT V4, they had the highest orders among that series print numbers, 10,000+. If it'd stayed like that and Tales was like this too, all TMNT comics may not be threatened by Diamonds new order policy. But the numbers dropped to nearly a 5th of that among both books (technically). Why? Its also the comic stores. They only order what sells for them and what the loyal customers choose to read. Which isn't many of us TMNT readers. Its the whole market thats at fault. But for the TMNT to not be in more recognition in its own industry is a shame for sure among Mirages faults, I can agree with this.
I just hope all the planned trades aren't jeopardized. I was looking forward to this. But how many of us were actually going to order the Mirage Universe, Forever War and the TMNT V1 TPB? The latter most of us have in previous releases. Didn't Tristan Jones tell us again the sales for that trade would determine the future releases of other trades. Geez, great timing Diamond. It may not be an anniversary after all.

The people buying the book are pretty niche and the book itself is mostly kept afloat on the good graces of Peter. Don't forget... it's already losing money, often times.

I only expect this may mean a price raise. I think on the average Tales does about 3,000 copies or a bit more. That's a bit of a buffer.

If the plug is pulled on Tales, it won't be because of this.

I take that back, partially. I just looked at November's sales figures... #52 of Tales only pulled in 2,381 copies. In October or September Tales didn't even make the top 300. In August Tales #49 ranked #292 and did 2,361 copies. As a frame of reference, I looked up Tales of the TMNT #5 from October 2004 and it ranked at #213 with 4,200 copies sold.

Still, 2,300ish is above the minimum limit imposed by Diamond with a small price jack. Just... not by much. But from any sales/printing standpoint... that's scarily well within the danger zone. We can now say with 100% certainty that Tales is being kept afloat by Mirage/Peter, for better or worse.

I predict Tales will become some kind of Wowio/limited print run orderable exclusively from Mirage like the last issue of Vol. 4, or will otherwise become anthology-based and only come out sporadically in TPBs. Though probably not the latter because Mirage doesn't want to deal with Barnes and Noble and all that.

Gee, someone didn't read the second link. :roll:

so garys messing around is the bullet in the stomach and diamond will be the mercy kill?

Why are you so mean to me? :)

I don't know if I'd look at it that way. But in many ways... the TMNT as a franchise has had its kneecaps blown out from the image the larger-media has created and continues to encourage. If even the comic books go away then that, my friends, is truly the final bullet to the brain. The last bastion.

For the foreseeable future.

they should just go internet with it all. it's cheaper to post it, I'll pay cover price for each issue, I don't care. I want my TMNT!

The TMNT comic franchise has been damaged more by Mirage's neglect then the larger-media, not even Marvel or DC can keep an ongoing comic going after a two year lay off.

man
 

At my comic shop the only turtle comics sold are the ones me and another guy have on our pull list. He stop displaying the comics years ago because of low sales. because of this there are no back issues to speak of.

I am looking forward to the Universe book and Forever War

yknow, given its relative geographic proximity to mirage hq, it's pretty ironic that i live in boston and have to do all my tmnt shopping, from action figures to comics, online. us fans dont have to be told to buy the comics, cause as fans, we (generally) will. its just too bad grabbing a wider audience doesn't seem to be part of the game plan.

tales is great. it reminds me of archie but with better writing, art, and layouts. it would be unfortunate to see it go,as it really is the most consistent tmnt title i've ever read (i havent read vol. 2-4 yet, and probably wont unless they get collected)

And no stores in Washington that I've been to carry the comic anymore outside of special order. One guy I asked, "Spy Comics" I think in Federal Way, not long after the last movie came out told me that he "couldn't pay to give the TMNT comics away," let alone put them on his shelves anymore. Ouch.

Comic Book Ink in Tacoma had the movie prequels and adaptation on the shelves, as well as the Raphael mini-series, but other than that I have to request the series.

I've found a comic shop in my hometown that has by far the most extensive collection of everything I've ever seen. Last time I was home I grabbed a large haul of both new and (very) old TMNT issues. But I understand that's the irregularity and trades in bookstores should've been a priority years ago.

So, in otherwords, to contribute to the numbers needed to keep it alive I shouldn't buy directly from Mirage anymore?

Wow, I couldn't disagree with these statements more.

Is there a reason you wouldn't get it locally? It'd be considerably cheaper for you.

Here's another list for people to digest. It's the top 50 independent comics of December, not necessarily all of which are in the top 300 overall. TMNT ain't in sight.

You know, I'm a frequent member at other comic book forums and most people don't even KNOW that the TMNT have a title out right now. I mean, these are hardcore fans of the media in general, where they pick up loads of books spanning various titles and publishers, from DC to Marvel to Indies, etc. And these people for the most part have no cluse theres a book out.

And that IMO is what Mirage needs. Sure the casual fan walking through the bookstore might pick up a trade or 2 and the hardcore fans like us will buy directly from them. But what they need to go is go back to basics, go after the what originally brought them success: the comic fan. These are the ones who'll keep coming back for more books. Most of those top selling books are bought by people who are into a wide variety of titles. Back in the day, CBG and other outlets were the way to go. I don't have the awswers to how they should get the word, but what they are doing right not is definately not working.

Now Heroclix is gone too.:(

As much as I like having a physical copy of a comic, going digital would be a lot better than nothing at all.

That place any good, by the way? Lots of backissue bins for older comics (like DC and such)?

I dunno... without a tangible, printed, published copy, I think I wouldn't give an online-only comic the same attention. In fact, I probably wouldn't look at it in a light too much unlike fanfiction.

And I hate being chained to a computer to read anything. I want to be able to lay on my belly on my bed, drinking martinis and turning pages, or sitting on the deck with a comic, smoking a cigarette... I don't want a comic book to hold me hostage at a monitor.

Even though it's coming from Mirage? :tconfuse:

I'm not too much of a fan of digital comics either, but if that's what it would take to keep the TMNT comics coming...

Yeah. I mean, does anyone really hold "Muscle & Faith" in the same regard or standing as the other comics (or to ask a follow-up question, did anyone even know it existed/exists until I mentioned it just now? i mean, aside from me, Spengler, Rose, and 2-3 fellow diehard fans?)?

It's not really fair, but the answer is no... and the answer is inexorably linked to it having been a web-only deal. And I'm not jumping on the "it's better than nothing" bandwagon. It kind of feels like -- to me -- for example, if you're a guy who enjoys having sex with an attractive woman on a regular basis (I do)... say, suddenly you face the prospect of going to prison. While someone might say to you that pounding your cellmate from behind might be "better than nothing"... I say it's probably just not going to be the same.

But this is just my thoughts. Regardless, if TMNT went online-only like a lemming I'd probably pay the $2 or whatever to download the damn PDFs. Like a geek, though, I'd probably find ways to arrange the pages and print them and staple them and bag and board them on my own. I bet some of you guys would, too.

Wait, what?

There's a lot of backissue bins, but I couldn't tell you the contents. I just go in, get what I need, and get out.

The first thing Mirage needs to do is to have someone is out there constantly pushing the books towards comicbook related websites, magazines, and conventions, ideally that person would be Peter Laird, since his name would be a bigger draw then anyone else.

It would be nice to have brand new digital comics at the ninjaturtles website, but if Mirage decides to close up shop, they would probably farm out the TMNT comics to another publisher.