Motivating the Fandom
 

Beats me, rather than help with the documentary or things related to it, we're still posting s*ite like this. How stupid is this fandom? Do they even deserve any sympathy at this rate? I've seen FURRIES with more intelligence

Shredder and Baxter's problems are depicted in the appropriate media as something that had no consequences in the current series. Perverted discussions centering on fictional characters that were pretty much aimed at a child demographic isnt depicted in the media and has never been the focus of the franchise.

If you want to discuss sex, discuss your own (lack of), sex life, not adhear it to discussions that range from incest to detail-to-detail on a forum KIDS read.

God, will this fracking fandom ever grow up?

Sad but true. TMNT fandom has been slipping through the cracks. I've been seeing alot of b*llshit for a while now. Mostly coming from the new wave of fans.

It seems us real TMNT fans from the 80s generation are the ones keeping it together.


:lol: Those where the good ol' days.

I agree with you that threads like this one are dumb, in my opinion. However, sitting around and complaining about it accomplishes nothing. If you want to see the types of discussions around here change, make the effort to change them. Here are some ideas:

• Start new threads that you think are beneficial to the fandom.
• Bump old discussions that interested you.
• Invite people to these forums to get more discussion going.
• Post regularly in the documentary threads to draw attention to them.

If you focus your energy on positive things like those, you actually can make a difference. But if you want to continue talking down to people and blowing everything out of proportion, don't expect to see any results.

Harsh criticism and harsh motivation accomplishes things when the strong, able minds, not the excessively weak and feeble ones, LISTEN. I don't beleive it accomplishes "nothing", I think a good kick in the face wakes people up to what they could live up to, not just in this community, but anywhere else where they are in a posistion to make changes.

I usually stay OUT of these threads, but that's because most of the time we don't have a great project hanging over our heads. I want this fandom to prove itself with that project, we shouldnt be wasting our time posting dumbell threads like this. This is what the documentary is trying to AVOID, and we DISGRACE it.

As for posting new threads that would try a positive approach? Yes, let's break down how that went down.

1. I've had to fight tooth and nail to get people to send me and my partners videos for the documentary. Even before Canadian announched his project, I was going nowhere with the help. Half-assed promises, unfulfilled obligations, it became so routine I abandoned that thread until Canadian started posting.


2. When my artist for my TMNT comic, something that would be produced for that documentary, got bitch-slapped by problems in life, I asked for help and DIDNT get it. After I specificly said "Can I have a long-term commitment", one a-hole even said "I'm too lazy"....was he thick or something? Maybe, I don't know what this fandom considers a priority...probably if I asked them to lick an ice cream for five minutes for charity, they'd rather discuss how long a Turtle would lick the ice cream...sexually.

I have TRIED to play it postively Krang, but the reality is is that this doesnt work in a shallow, empty, and unmotivated fandom that is content with having a nice period of activity, then returning to the levels of unparalelled obscurity, much like the franchise itself.

I've since had to hold back my online comic until Raven is better off than he currently is, but he too shares my frustrations and I'd rather keep a project with someone who can and will do it than someone who never will and waste my time.

I'm not blowing anything out of proportion, I'm telling you the truth. This fandom needs a good kick in the balls. Fact.

The question is, why would people want to listen to you when you act so condescending toward them? You're not motivating people, you're cutting them down, and from what I've seen, that always hurts the situation far more than it helps.

I agree that the documentary has a lot of potential to help out the fandom, but you can't expect people to talk about nothing besides it. If this insignificant thread never existed, I doubt it would have given the people who posted in it all that much more time to spend on helping out the documentary, especially considering how short the majority of the posts in here are.

Also, I see that you have had a frustrating experience in getting people to contribute to your projects, but that's not what I was referring to. My suggestions are for improving the quality of conversation on the forums, which is what you were complaining about in your original post.

If I'm cutting them down, then they clearly don't want to be motivated or challenged. I've been on harsher communities where that attitude steels people and cuts around corners.

I never said it had to be the consistent vocal point of conversation, but it should have more activity and participation involved than it does currently, especially when it has to play second fiddle to daily discussions on THIS crap. True, there's not a lot of posts in HERE, but I'm not just talking about this thread, I'm talking about these kinds of threads constantly cropping up....it's sad.

Did this sudden concern for "quality of conversation" occur before or after you threw my previous vents and concerns into a thread called "Pointless Whining"? when I was neither whining or without a point to make? I took personal exception to that, but opted not to PM you my outrage, I figured there'd be another time, another place to vent, and I found that.

I'm a fan like you and everyone. I just like my fandoms to be much hungrier than they actually are.

Just curious, Zarius, but what other fandoms exist where they volunteer to take your abuse? If you want to be a condescending supervisor without expecting people to give up on you, start paying them. That's the only reason anyone in the business world would stand for your "harsh criticism"... low self-esteem aside.

Looks like you didnt pay attention in class did ya boy?:roll:

I'm social with anyone that gets on my wagon, there's no bickering, no fighting, no "abuse", if I find flaw, I tell them to try again.

Turning the other way (or, hell, saying "I'm not putting up with this unless there's money involved") is nothing to suggest, or be proud of, it doesnt teach me to "be more positive", it proves me RIGHT how about stupid and insulting those morons are to the poor saps who post threads saying how "fortunate" we are..they sabotauge our integrity and that adulation.

If they give up on me, I don't care, because there idiots who'll go on posting threads like this and if anything, I'll get more a laugh at how unaccomplished they are in life, and are content to remain that way and turn the argument back on someone

This isnt the buisness world, this is a fandom, nobody's earning any money, but people who are SPENDING money to give us a non-profit project ought to be helped a little more

But you won't listen, and that's fine, I'm laughing, I'm proven right. That documentary will be finished one day, my comic will be finished one day...but guess who missed out because all they did was post about Venus DeMillo's sexual preferences and couldnt process someone's concerns as something that basicly told them to look in the mirror and examine their own character?


Krang, you can move these posts to another section of the board if you like. Possibly under the title "Motivating The Fandom", and we'll get it out of the way. I wouldnt want to refrain people from continuing this STIMULATING conversation...
:lol::lol::lol:

Nor did I suggest it was. I'm just pointing out that's how they do it. But, I see I've gotten under your skin. Sorry. Just trying to give you some perspective. This is how I see things, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Calm the hell down dude. TMNT is for everyone and we can discuss whatever we want about it wether or not YOU do or don't like it. People are free to discuss wether they preffer Mikey with black eyes or baby blues, if Fast Forward was better or worse than Red Sky, and who would date Venus. Case closed dude. I don't see what's the big deal, noone said anything about Raph dating a foxwoman, flirting with a lizard girl, or Mikey hittin on an alien girl or even some woman from ancient Japan that already had a love interest to begin with.

And my suggestions above address everything you mentioned. You could also add this to the list: "Don't post in threads that you think are stupid, since that only draws more attention to them."

You still seem to be misinterpreting my original post. I posted those suggestions because you seemed concerned about the quality of conversation around here.

Well, your posts in that thread mostly consisted of complaining (whining) about the forum staff not stickying the thread even though you never asked us to. If you did ask, we would have gladly done so, meaning there was no need to complain in the first place (which makes the whole thing pointless). I think the new title was rather fitting.

But please, that thread is dead and buried, so let's not continue to dwell on that to avoid ruining this thread like what almost happened to the documentary thread.

Good idea.

So, I read the first half and then just kinda skimmed after that. Just to make sure I didn't completely miss the idea here: We're arguing about arguing and whining about whining because the documentary is in Production Hell and people like to talk about mutant ninja privates.

Did I miss anything?

Nobody's whining, so get off that line of inquiry

And you'd be right on everything else.:lol:

It goes beyond just the documentary too, this is about getting the fandom to do more productive things than discuss private parts and sexual preferences.

I really don't have the time to discuss this crucial matter with someone who clearly doesnt "get it", but I need the laugh

Here's a reality of life buster: You don't DESERVE TMNT with the kind of crap you talk about. And damn right if I don't like what I'm reading, I WILL vent about it because we could be doing something much better. It's a free country, but that doesnt mean people have to WASTE that freedom and embarras themselves.

People are stupid, especially when they discuss the first and latter options more consistently. These characters are fictional, get out of your hole and start doing something that benefits the franchise, that's the only "reality" you ought to be dealing with

Because you say so? Hardly. It's just begun.

I guess I'm worthless no matter which way you look at it. I don't do productive things and I don't discuss ninja privates. All I do is enjoy the comics and DVDs. :P

Do you enjoy 'em....privatley?:)

No. I'm an exhibitionist. :D

That's the sad thing about internet fandom. Doesn't matter what show you like, someone's going to start a lengthy discussion of what characters they want to bang... be they children or animals. I have said it before, I hate searching up drawing references and finding Mandy (of Billy and Mandy) nude, showing her self off. I agree with you on this, but I think it needs to apply to all fandom of every animated series comic book or movie.

Such is why I do not discuss Avatar: The Last Airbender with anybody.

What is it, rule 34 or something? :sick:

I completely agree that there's alot of, for lack of a better word, stupidity, around here, especially evident in threads about Turtle sex, or imaginary Turtle habits, or what have you.

However, I don't think you can call the fandom lazy for not putting in huge commitments for fan comics and documentaries. Not everyone has the facilities, talent, time, or interest (despite how much they may love the property) for those sorts of things.

What I would personally love to see is motivation for better discussion. Less talk of Turtle sex and how "deep" the new toon characters are, and more analysis of storylines. More reminiscing about favorite moments. More discussion about the franchise. More substance. We don't need more flash-bang fan projects, we just need more intellegent discussion. Which for my part, I have tried to do.

You make a good argument for dictatorship.

No. Nothing like that. I just can't have a conversation about Avatar without soandsoXsoandso becoming the main point. Maybe once in awhile I'd like to laugh about how the dance that needed to be learned for Firebending looks like the Fusion Dance from Dragonball Z. Maybe once in awhile I'd like to talk about how the pirates are actually pirate-ninjas! Or how about, just maybe, I get to talk about how awesome the Blue Spirit is or how Iroh is the greatest character in the history of ever... As opposed to arguing about who Zukko should be "fusion dancing" with.

I feel like I'm the only person who watched that show for the adventure, humor, and martial arts action while everyone else watched it as a romance.

Actually, we DO need fan projects. Tons of 'em. A professional, constantly moving and worldly fandom beats the hell out of nerds talking about the same topics day in, day out, regardless of the improved conversations. That's a component, but not what will help the bigger wheels work

You know things are bleak for this franchise when the Power Rangers fandom has more controversy, fan projects, group activity, and podcasts than any portion of TMNT combined. From what I've seen of the strides fans have made in the fan communities also for He-Man, Transformers, and more for "Mosiac" test runs for comic writers, and commentaries for DVDs...I don't beleive this "people don't have the time" bunk, people in this fandom are just lazy. This is a fact.

The documentary is the first true pulse I've seen from fans in years and it's a route we need to encourage.

I'm not saying we should write Of Mice and Mayhem of course. God help us.

I suppose I just take offense to the assumption that anyone unwilling to devote time to these projects is a lazy, Turtle sex-obsessed asshole. Sure, I want more recognition for the TMNT, but I've got college and work and a social life, and a huge number of things that prevent me from doing anything more than trying to present decent disucssion of the franchise.

So we do what we can. Don't set your expectations unreasonably high. Berating certain topics, however, is fine and probably deserved.

And yet these are people who have what you and others have and go through with their contributions regardless.

Noone's an asshole if they geinually care about where we are and want to find a way to change it eventually, slowly, in their own time.

That's where I'm coming from. Glad you approve.

On the topic of bad discussion I completely agree. If people aren't talking about shipping their exaggerating the littlest thing, making the most outlandish topics ever, or needlessly complaining. Boy, do people sure love to complain. Now, there’s nothing wrong with a little complaining as long as the criticism is actually constructive and unbiased but most of the time that’s not the case.

When ever I actually get an idea for something that would make for great discussion I almost never make a thread about. Either very few people will post or the topic will go in a new direction altogether. Now I rarely bother making threads unless I want a question answered.

Note: I’m talking about most forums in general not just the Drome.

As for the documentary, I’m not surprised at all. That’s what happens when you rely on people online. Unless its from someone your know you rarely get any help. In the end I guess I have little right to complain about people being so cold and lazy. I have all the free time in the world but no motivation to help whatsoever to help your cause.

I see what you're saying there, Zarius. I'd like to see more organised and structured TMNT fan projects myself.

You look at Transformers. Transformers long before the home internet fully expanded had a torrent of printed page fanzines (Surely you've heard of Transmasters UK) and some of those zines are still going today (Check out the UK sector at the-hub.co.uk). Nowadays, new ventures like Transformers: Mosiac are so well done, collaborated on and succesful that even IDW aparentley want to print a few of the simple one page strips. These being kept simple without dare I say it the complicated clutter of OC agendas somewhat being imposed uneasily on a spectator.

I've met so many UK based Transformers fans through the fandom, been a Transmaster for 13 years, was TMUK Member of the Year in 1998, ran a fanzine and heck even co-ran a European Botcon and these were great times that continue because people were motivated to create, meet and collaborate. Transmasters itself also have American and Japanese sectors.

My aspiration one day that TMNT fandom can acheive as much, because there is a lot of potential.

Heck, TF Fandom gave us Don Figura. TMNT fandom should be so lucky to produce someone that goes into the mainstream like that...

Ok I'm going to be nice about this

1: PR fandom HAS alot of controversy, down to the porn thing and series styles. Turtles has less by virtue of less material, no translation issues, etc...
2: Turtles fandom is easily smaller than TF fandom and probably a good deal smaller than PR fandom
3: There are a couple amazing fan projects even so (Turncoat, anyone?)
4: Some of us just don't have the means to do the types of projects we'd want. I'd love to do a few fanfilms, but I don't have the resources. I am working on fanscripts though. And illustrated work, although I do hate my own stuff there...


Truth is, though, I agree with you. The fandom seems to have become, for various reasons sluggish, a bit apathetic, and fatalistic. It's like the way I get shrugged off or laughed at whenever I suggest a turtles-centric convention. THe fandom has given up in alot of ways. I find it sad, honestly.

P.S.
5: What was the series with the traitor rangers and zord v zord bloodbath?

Maybe you would do better if ,rather than post that you want fan involvement, you told us what you want. I know I've done some TMNT related things, but I'm not sure if they are what anyone would want. In fact some time soon, I want to try my hand at doing a video where I rip off the OT voice cast, just to see if I can. :P

I'd love to take part in the 'local' projects.... I just never know what I can really contribute. Other people have a LOT more abilities with computers and junk. I'm on a limited budget of both time and money... (and having a face for radio doesn't help either... :P).

Being buried in NH doesn't help much either... everyone and their projects are all either way south or on the West Coast. :ohwell:


But in all reality, after a while, there's only so many topics you can think up about a single show before you start having repeats (or the sex-related threads, unfortunately). It's an inevitable part of being on the internet..

I almost forgot I was gonna try to do some sort of fan commentary either of the pilot, the first movie, or some of the best/worst of the old series.

Okay, I read through this thread and I still don't understand the point of it. Was something important removed from the first post that would have helped to clarify things?

I've never had this problem with a turtle sex thread, by the way -- so at least those make sense! As much sense as a turtle sex thread can make, anyway. ;)

I completely agree with this. So are we thinking things like: fanfics, fancomics, fanzines, scripts, animations, podcasts, a tmnt museum, docos and gatherings? I'm sure there a bunch of other things. The next questions are: who, what, where- actually starting these endeavours is half the work.

A lot of group activities can be logistical nightmares (well, I'm in Australia), but by the power of greysku...er, the internet, I would happily chip in to make a more prominent fan base.
I don't thinks it's a lack of love, just a lack of focus. I would never belittle anyone's thoughts or threads on the TMNT if they are positive ones, it only creates upset and anger. It seems we just need to make like a river and channel.

The internet's been around awhile, turtles fandom is still a confused mass. We really need more effort, and a little bit of optimism.

Fandoms always have there ups and downs, but yeah when it comes to getting involved it seems that people to easily just wave the white flag.

I know I have dealt with this heavily with working with UNT, Im lucky we got the people we did to help out on it!

As of the people who have been trying to get a group comic going for years, I can speak about how very few take notice or seem to care. But that might just be me. These things are out there!

We finally got the comic hosted this year by a site instead of posting the pages on a thread, it was very disorginzed. Thanks again to Krang for helping us out there!

http://www.thetechnodrome.com/Ultima...tles/index.php

If some of you really want to help, heres another avenue. We have had this going for years, its a Ultimate Fan take of the Ninja Turtles being worked on by SpawnGuy and myself for the last two years. We could always use more artists, even if its a pin up or just one page.


Hell, even look at TigerFogs Manga. The guy does all of it by himself, and see how he keeps a small part of the fandom engaged!

I don't recall being told that I had to do something when I became a fan 22 years ago.

Meh. I think it's overrated. A great plus for the fandom and Tony's art is second to none, but it's not true to the original series at all and I'd rather read something that is. However, Tony does that out of his own free time

That would be SPD.

The first post was taken from the "Which Turtle would date Venus" thread where I argued fans were stupid, complaicent, lazy, and sexually intimidated if there frequently busy with threads like this.

Still really good, and I've seen alot of fan projects that weren't true to the origionals, esp when you already have a multiple continuity situation. Still, I can understand your opinion.

How about the Fandub of the original Japanese ovas?


The real problem is these projects are relatively few and far between. And none of them are very ambitious.

Thanks. I always thought that was a cool subplot.

Speaking of which, I have a simple project in the works that I think that everyone can easily have a stab at. It's a little something under a working title: Project Unity that I hope that fans who create and/or spectate will both really enjoy.

More on it later, when I've got more important RL stuff dealt with and the particulars ironed out.

Lets not forget Nick Roache and Jack Lawrence too. :)

Please excuse my posting in this thread. I'm not the most involved member of this forum or community even, but as a hardcore TMNT fan for 22 years, I feel I have to contribute something to this thread.

Others have somewhat voiced some of my feelings on this matter, but I feel the need to give my own take on all of this, so excuse me if I hurt any feelings, but I have to be honest.

Being part of a great many fandoms, I've seen great things accomplished, due only to peoples' love of something. Be it art, entertaintment, or what have you, they produce great works all due to one thing, love. Love of something leads to creativity. What DOESN'T lead to creativity is the idea someone HAS to produce something tangable to be considered a fan. That's not only narrowminded, it's abit insulting. What's also pretty insulting is taking any fans who for whatever reasons can't or won't contribute to a certain project or whatever, and labeling them all horny degenerate losers. TMNT is a product. Granted a product made from the effort and enjoyment of 2 struggling artists, but it's a product, as as such it was ment to make money. Now I'm not saying it's not ment to be enjoyed, quite the opposite, but as long as these fans give money to those creators and keep this franchise alive, I think they're already doing their fair share in helping the community. Yes there will be the occasional questionable member, but every fandom since the beginning of fandoms has always had that, and they always will. The best way to overcome those people is to be the bigger person. Ask people nicely if they'd like to help. Inspire them with whatever means you may have. You can't make something, expect help out of the blue, then attack others simply cause they may not have the means or talent to contribute what may be needed for said project. I may not post much to this forum, but I read. I see many good kind people, and I kow this is a good fandom. What I don't enjoy is seeing those who feel it's their god given right to expect things from others when they've done nothing to earn that right. I say this to this forum, as I would even say to Peter and Kevin themselves. As long as these people love and remain with this fandom, they already do enough to earn the label 'fan'. As fans, they deserve the same respect given to any other fan.

I'm sorry this rant went on so long, but I had to give my feedback on something I've been seeing far too much of. Yes some things can damage a fandom, but in my eyes the most damaging is elitism. You're fans of a franchise, not the owner or creator. Enjoy contributions, don't force or order them, otherwise THAT will be what kills this franchise. Thank you for your time.

True, there's projects that really need to take a good hard look at what there based on, but "Turncoat" is everything you DON'T do. It's gotten better, but the reason I gave up on it's story was that it was being deep for the sake of it. The original series developed into a darker, deeper series organicly, not losing it's charm or it's humour

I remember when Tony listened to some fan concerns that he was "indulging" in Rule 34 with aspects of "Turtle Turncoat", dedicating whole pages to Shredder acting perverted, torturing April O'Neil in a bikini. Thank god that's stopped...even if I still don't agree with what he's done in that title, I can't fault him for art. He ought to be hired and mentored more by MIRAGE

I love them. There more examples of where to go. Those guys have opened a door for themselves.