If the new movie was the OT in live action?
 

Ok before everyone hates on this...

Lets say Paramount changes the new movie to be based more on the OT. Now before you think it as a lame kids movie...It would be live action and based on the OT but it'd be a serious take on it. You'd have Krang/Rocksteady/Beebop/technodrome all in the movie so it wouldn't be based on the Mirage comics however like I mentioned it wouldn't be kiddified it'd still be PG/PG-13 trying to get that older target audience as well, similar to Transformers was marketed.

Now this would be a sure hit since this is what everyone who grew up with the turtles want, a new movie based on the show/version they watched as kids but made "also" for adults not just kids. We all know we're in a minority and most don't know or care that the turtles did not start as a cartoon and thats not the version they want to see.

Personally I don't think it'd be that bad, it'd be nice to see a more serious interpretation of the OT, in fact when the OT was serious it still worked and was awesome.

I don't want to see a serious version of Bebop and Rocksteady. Their whole appeal is being stupid.

Also, this idea sounds a lot like that fan project that nobody cares about.

I'm saying a serious take on the OT, Rocksteady and Beebop would obviously still be stupid. Just because the Transformers movie is more serious doesn't mean its humorless.

I don't see how it sounds like a fan project, its definitely something that could happen and nobody cares about? besides comic geeks and the hardcore TMNT fandom, to people the TMNT ARE the OT, and thats what they want to see in a movie.

>_< I read that wrong. I came in here thinking you were asking what if first movie had been just the original 'toon in live-action. If that had been the case (like I'm sure the suits wanted), I probably wouldn't be a fan today. It was the occasional shots of dignity in the franchise (Archie, Usagi eps, etc) that kept me coming back.

P.S. - The 'Party Van' back at SDCC '09 had little trivia facts flash on a monitor inside. It said original plans were to use Bebop & Rocksteady as the mutants in SotO. So glad they didn't...
O_o Bad example... The Transformers movies were the only part of that franchise that weren't humorless. As hard as I tried to wedge myself into that fandom, I could never sit through an entire ep of any related series for that reason.

Isn't this "Dawn of the Ninja" thing that someone is already working on?

Well, as far as Fred Wolf elements, you know what I've always liked? Baxter as a fly. That's something I've always felt could work in a more "serious" version of the Turtles. For example, they could keep his initial character role from the comics, but have him experiment in mutagenics after encountering the Turtles. Or, whatever, something.

It's right in line with all the sci-fi pastiche of TMNT, gives them an iconic villain, and was pretty sick sh*t even in the kids' cartoon. It's not that much higher than cyborg Baxter on the ridiculousness scale either.

Hey, if Paramount makes an OT-style movie and it's at least as good as the first season of the OT, I've got no problems. I just hope it doesn't take a few sudden dives at various points like the actual OT did. So, yeah, not quite a "serious" take... more like a "high quality take."

If they did-it would be awesome.

A blending of the different versions (Splinter as a rat, Shredder as a human, Krang as an Utrom) would be a real hit-well I mean Id go and see/buy it

:tgrin:

I could totally get behind this idea. That's what's keeping me interested in the new toon that Nick's working on (other than interest just cuz it's the Turtles too), is what I keep hearing about it taking elements and/or characters from the old toon and re-imagning them. I'd love to see another take at Rocksteady, Bebop, and Krang. Heck, I'll even take April as a reporter again. I can do without the Neutrinoes though...but maybe that's just me.

On SotO though, I'm glad they went Tokka and Rahzar instead of Rocksteady and Bebop as well, simply cuz I've always liked Tokka and Rahzar. It was nice to get another batch of mutants.

Oops. Too late.

It would still be awesome to see a meaner badder take on Bebop and Rocksteady. This way they would be more of a threat.

But I don't give a sh*t about them being more of a threat.

But what's the point? If you wanna see mean mother fuc*in gang members, wouldn't it be better to have brand new gang members... that aren't bogged down by stupid nick-names names or cosplay outfits?

I don't know, I always saw Bebop and Rocksteady as mutated Purple Dragons. It would be a cool idea to have an OT type of movie but also have a violent and more dark take but also humorous.

If the new film were the OT TMNT, I wouldn't watch it.

As a kid I was disappointed it wasn't Bebop and Rocksteady in the cages.

The concept of them being meaner and badder could work. The characters themselves come from violent backgrounds so it's not impossible to see them as being more competent, threatening individuals. Tristan even had a story to use them, albeit as giant aliens but still! :D

I'll say the same thing I said in a comics thread about potentially importing "badass" Mirage-versions of Bebop and Rocksteady into the existing Mirage comic universe:

To me, it's just a pretty creatively bankrupt idea.

I mean, I get that nostalgiacs want that "OS Fix" of seeing their favorite children's cartoon TMNT characters like Bebop and Rocksteady again... but if they have to be "serioused up" and converted into real, credible threats, things that they were never created or intended to be... then why use them at all? Why not make new characters and villains that fit the mold of the serious, credible threats, or look to the actual source material for closer-fit matches that don't require any massive retooling?

If I remember, they weren't going to be aliens. They were to be the actual, OS Bebop and Rocksteady, visiting the Mirage "dimension" from presumably the OS "Dimension" in the TMNT multiverse. Wasn't a bad idea at all, really... and why not? Multiversal crossovers can be a lot of fun, as DC has taught us to varying results (some great stories out of the 70s, and Grant Morrison's "Earth-2" is awesome). It's only the idea and prospect of, "Let's make an actual Mirage universe Bebop and Rocksteady" that makes me think about investing in some ipicac.

Well that is not what I mean though...

They HAVE to be Beebop and Rocksteady because that is what the 80s show had, if you replace them then its no longer based on the 80s show.

Also when I meant a serious take on the character I meant that they'd make the movie appeal to both kids and the kids who grew up with it. Think of all the recent movies like that and even superhero movies. The Spiderman movies are not grimdark yet they appeal to both kids as well as the older demographic. This wouldn't be a grimdark version of the 80s show but a more serious take to be able to appeal to both demographics.

Yeah but that doesn't mean that Bebop and Rocksteady have to be mentally challenged:D

Yes. Yes, it does.

How It would still have the same characters like Shredder, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, heck even Robotic Foot Soldiers. That should keep OT fans happy.

Bebop and Rocksteady could be more of of a threat and it would still keep me pleased. That just like saying that the Turtles need to constantly keep throwing surrounding objects in the movie just because it's based off of the OT TMNT. Them being more of a threat just adds better action.

I was using the term "aliens" very loosely as they were from another dimension, not the OS dimension, but one that was things were much larger than the Mirage universe. The two were gigantic and wreaked havoc pretty much due to their sheer size.

True... I suppose they would technically be "aliens" if they came from another dimension.

Rocksteady and Beebop can be pretty credible threats, after all they are large and intimidating, they just aren't very smart. Not much different than how Tokka and Rahzar were portrayed.

Tokka and Rahzar were "Babies, their Babies uhh":lol:

Whether or not that's what you meant, it's what you said. So, I'm guessing you mean just keep them consistently in their post-mutation, Season 1 character. Right? I'd be down with that.
Don't forget that Dr. Jordan has added something to the ooze to stunt their cognitive development. In other words, he kept 'em stupid.

I'm not sure Tokka and Rahzar are good examples of how Bebop and Rocksteady could "work" on screen.

I can see it work. They can still be idiots and pose a physical threat, with weapons and whatnot. A couple morons shooting guns are still threats.

True. It's just not a compelling TMNT film at that point, IMHO.

It's not what I'd prefer either, but hey, if we're talking an OT adaptation, my expectations would be pretty low already so what the hell?

You'd rather have baby-minded mutants that called Shredder 'Momma'?

It wouldn't be out of the question to see Viacom/Nick/Paramount go this route, since it's worked well for them in the past, they could easily PG-13 up the old cartoon just like Transformers and G.I. Joe.


There are no guarantees to whether a TMNT movie based on the OT will be a sure fire hit, to truly reach out to a larger audience they need to go beyond OT fans. I believe the concept of the turtles is strong enough without the OT elements.

That would be as equally non-compelling as it was in 1991. Of course, like most I was more forgiving as a 10 year old... though if we're all throwing in the towel that that's the audience they ought to be targeting, then the battle is already lost.

Completely agreed. To say nothing of the fact that the OS hardcore fans have already long aged themselved out of the target demographic of these types of films.

The question keeps coming up: "What fans should the movie be for? OS fans? Mirage TMNT fans? Most people know about the OS! That's what they should go towards! How many Mirage comics fans are there? Like 1,000?"

The answer is... no fans. Existing ones, anyway. As I said, even the OS fans have aged themselves out of the Holywood demographic for movies like these. The only sound solution left, I believe, is the one they've never, ever tried before... a relatively faithful take on the comic book source material with a visionary director in nothing less than PG-13.

Will that happen, or will history and the vicious circle of the snake eating its own tail (TPTB making TMNT product that is too easy to outgrow again and again, then wondering why it fails)... the jury is out. But rooting back to the OS children's cartoon for mining material is ass-backwards.

Now, for the new CGI cartoon in 2012? Why not? They can do whatever they want for the latest children's cartoon. It is, after all, for children.

Of course an OS movie doesn't guarantee a hit, but nothing guarantees a hit. Focusing on the 80s show does give them a large audience since its what people who grew up with it know and like and new kids would be interested just as we were as kids.

How did the OS fans aged themselves out of the target demographic long ago for these films? Just like other 80s revivals they are the right age.

And they've already tried a Mirage adaptation with the original movie, albeit with changes but thats to be expected for any hollywood adaptation. Batman Begins is not a straight forward comic book adaptation either. Also the turtles are NOT Batman, you can't expect the regular demographic to treat the turtles like Batman, the whole concept by itself is still silly heck the comic started as a parody.

I'd prefer the version we were promised before the buyout but I don't think I'd be against it being adapted from the OT. And besides very few Mirage fanboys, thats the version all the general public would want.


Thats ignorant like saying comic books are after all for children.

Weren't they both originally created for Children?

Old Father Time, I suppose. Are there a lot of OS fans out there that are 15-21?

What, like G.I. Joe and Transformers? If you were to break down the ticket sales of those, how many do you suppose were the actual GI Joe/Transformers fans from the 80s and how many were tweens and teens -- ones that had never seen any Transformers or GI Joe cartoons from the 80s -- that wanted to see robots fight each other and a big summer actioner? Or to see Megan Fox bend over? The aged, existing fandoms are the icing on the cake, not the cake itself, man.

C'mon, let's take off the nostalgia glasses. It was a good movie and remains one... but while it had heart and a world more "grit" than the other movies (which let's keep in mind is not saying much), they essentially made it a slapstick comedy in more places than not... and the crux of it to be, "Oh no! Will little Danny turn to the Dark Side and join the evil Foot Clan halfway house for children?" I don't remember that rubbish in the comic books.

It's an amalgam of very successful, very critically praised Batman comic book stories and elements. I don't think it's unrealistic to think a similar approach to TMNT would bear similar fruit.

Of course, nowhere near that scale. No one's suggesting that.

If you believe that the scant number of parodic elements in its inception were the crux of the TMNT then you probably shouldn't be a fan.

Eastman and Laird have both said it wasn't a parody. I'm going with them.

Again, the people that would actually be versed in the time of yore of Bebops and Krangs are not the target demographic of films like these. And again, if they show up, great, it's icing on the cake... not the cake itself.

And "the general public" isn't what a movie studio and financiers are going to concern themselves with. They're doing an actioner, possibly a summer actioner, then there's a very specific target demographic they're going to be going for... it's not a difficult concept. And I'm sorry, but the OS fans haven't been a part of it for some time now.

You know what I mean. Little kids. 6-8 year olds who beg mommy and daddy to buy them action figures at Toys 'R' Us or have to save up money from the tooth fairy to do so.

I think your underestimating the 80s revival audience. I'm in that demographic, and I know a ton of friends who were giddy to see their childhood shows on the big screen. These are the same friends who stick to downloading cam quality bootlegs of most movies, but were first in line for G.I. Joe and Transformers.

Dont get me wrong, I'd much rather see a true representation of Mirage Turtles as well. But unless a big name director comes on board feeling the same as we do, expect a movie geared towards the 80s revival crowd.

I know plenty of 18-21 TMNT fans, I'm only 23 myself.

I think you're underestimating the power of these old franchises, online there was huge hype and talk on them from people who grew up with them, I also knew plenty of older people than me who were very excited for these movies based on the shows they age. Are they the main demographic for the movie? Kind of, they make the movies to be able to appeal to kids and an older audience. Kids will buy all the toys and merchandise but if they were the only audience then they'd be G rated movies. The movies are obviously marketed to both audiences, and no, if the movie wasn't called Transformers and it was just about transforming robots fighting each other and Megan Fox the movie would not have been in people must watch list. You don't give enough credit to people who grew up with it not necessarily fandoms.




No nostalgia glasses, I'm just saying that it was a fairly decent adaptation from the comic. Not 100% accurate of course but no movie or cartoon adaptation of comic/books ever are, they always change stuff for one reason or another.

And I disagree, the turtles is a silly concept and it can not be sold to a mass audience as easily. No one wants a grimdark adaptation besides us the fandom. Yeah they'll take a more serious take on it whether based on the 80s show or Mirage comic adaptation but never a more direct gritty Mirage adaptation, that will never happen. So no a similar approach to what Begins/Dark Knight wouldn't work it would definitely have to be lighter and have more humor a la Transformers/GI Joe.


Anyways in conclusion since I think my post is kinda messy...what I mean to say is you are not giving the OT enough credibility to work as a movie. I perfectly understand that is now that you want to see and I don't necessarily want it to be that I'd also prefer the version that we were told before the buy out, this is just a "what if" and I think I'd be alright with it. And if it happened I think it would be a hit since its what people want and kids would love it, would the version we were promised before the buyout also be a hit? I also definitely think if done right it can be a hit and do great. Only thing I disagree is that an OT influenced movie would be what people want and that the only way the movie can get an older audience is being a more direct adaptation.

I don't belittle it. I'm sure there was many thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of the actual kids -- now grown -- that used to watch the original Transformers and GI Joe cartoons that went to the theatre to see the movie. These do, however, account for only a small percentage of the box office returns.

Some scenes. Thematically it was quite another beast.

Of course. But then there's... adding stuff in that wouldn't be and isn't organic to the universe of the source material. Excess of slapstick and Foot Halfway House for Troubled Youths and Darth Shredder, I'm talking to you.

Which is fine... as long as the humor isn't an excess of slapstick and there's the right, comic-equivalent (or close) amount of "ninja action" to balance things out.

It can work as a movie, I'm not doubting that. But is going that route the best shot a new movie has at maximizing success? Is it the best, most logical option on the table? Absolutely not.

While I am a unapologetic hardcore fan of the comics and little else, it isn't about what I want to see... I'm talking about what we haven't seen -- the last bastion that's never been tried before while every other route has been explored:

A kick-ass TMNT movie that brings the comic universe to life.

What people? We're back to talking about the existing TMNT fans, which the studio can't and shouldn't concern itself with (I hate to say it).

You say that like it must be be an OS influenced movie or it must be a "more direct adaptation." What precludes a "more direct adaptation" that's PG-13 (I'm not advocating an R-rated movie here, as much as I'd love it) from drawing in the kiddies? If you think I'm underestimating the draw of the OS on screen, you are woefully underestimating the drawing power of films with kid-friendly enough premises (hey, Turtles that are Ninjas is pretty much a cool draw in itself, as a concept) that don't cater to the lowest common denominator.

It's a sound solution, but not the only one, as much as I feel that a TMNT movie doesn't need to cater to OT fans to be successful, building a movie around the OT and making it PG-13 could potentially be just as successful as one based on the comics, since the general public, at this point, probably doesn't care about either to any great extent.



Unless you can guarantee every kid who grew up a fan of the OT will automatically go out and see a movie that's focused on the OT, the size of the audience this type of movie would attract is pure speculation.


I'm in the demographic of the 80s revival audience, but even I don't believe that it was this demographic that powered movies such as Transformers and G.I. Joe to nearly 2 billion in total box office.

If there is anything that movies such as Transformers and G.I. Joe have taught us is that, the the general public could care less about the source of the content of the movie, just as long as something blows up.